Even with the lower energy density, sodium-ion batteries appear ideal for home and net scale batteries, where size and weight are not as much of a limitation. That would free lithium from those implementations for higher energy density applications like transport.
There is a error at 1:45 in you can't get away with 25Kwh battery packs. The correct answer is you potently may have a battery 25% the size or weight of current batteries. 4 x the energy density doesn't reduce Kwh it reduces size and/or weight.
Came here to say this too. This is a very elementary mistake and really destroys all credibility. I would take it down immedietly if I were him and fix it
Wanted to say this too. 100kWHr is 100kWHr reguardless of weight, mass, or volume. I appreciate he's not in the electrical field but it really is a silly mistake.
@@Mallchad We all make mistakes from time to time but we grow by accepting our mistake and learning from them. Looking back at my comment I could do with some help from time to time with my grammar. 😕
@7:45 For most energy storage application *Sodium* would be adequate. (For consumer EVs, Airplanes, and other applications like electrocutions, you *_need_* rapid discharges.) For grid storage, ships and very heavy transport Sodium might do the trick.
BYD's sodium battery cars' 80 mph max speed is more than the allowed speed limit in 90% of the country. And most people stop to fuel up or recharge after driving 200 miles anyway. Cutting lithium out is the way forward!
Sodium does not equal salt. Salt also has chlorine. Also, you said that the lighter air batteries would mean a car requires a quarter of the power. Still like the video though
It is the weight that would be a 1/4 for the same range. The capacity would still be 100kWh. Li-air is not a battery, but a fuel cell when the oxidizer is external so better call it a rechargeable fuel cell.
Yes, I follow all the videos about new batteries using abundant raw materials. I have battery fatigue (and I'm a Chemist). I know Na cathode batteries are already being used for grid energy storage.
Plenty of city dwellers would be OK with the range and top speed of the sodium battery version of the BYD Seagull, assuming that the price is quite low. It's range and speed specs are similar to those of the Nissan Leaf.
The battery that I'm betting on in the not so distant future, because they are building a plant in the US right now, is the lithium sulfur battery. It would be nice if you would have done some background on that. Maybe you could in the future. Thanks for your good work.
The best part about lithium sulfur batteries is you will know when they are fully discharged by the rotten egg smell they release when it's time to be recharged
Difficult to keep up with what the future is and the myriad battery technologies. The moral of the story is to keep clear of it all where possible as betting on the wrong technology risks it not being supported and early users just left hung out to dry.
Critical error made at 1:45 If you have 4x as energy dense battery you still have to have 100kWh in your battery pack, its just smaller. You cant say you can have a 25kWh pack instead..
Happy Easter, TTS. And it's pronounced [mo LIB de num] TYVM. (graphics "coulumbic" and "catode", too) 3 demerits. ;) Another great vid, though, guys. You always pack a whole lot of info in each one. Keep 'em coming!
Although the solid-state printed battery looks very promising in the sense of the fact that could actually be done. But the problem is manufacturability at speed. I have never seen a 3-D printing machine that can possibly pump out the batteries like the Tesla, 4680 at a massive scale like that. I could be wrong, but it sure doesn’t look like it. Come on just look at what they’re showing as far as 3-D printing a battery is slow,multiple layers of going back-and-forth back-and-forth. Get the drift?!
Big mistake @1:45: not 25 kWh battery! You still will need a battery with 100 kWh electrical capacity to gain the range of the car! You just will need a fourth of the battery volume. I'd suggest, you quickly edit this video.
Why don't we ever see these lab made cells sent to a UA-camr like Adam Savage for showing and testing? Even a single Ah/Wh discharge test of one of these lab made cells would wow the crap out of everyone and possibly generate more investment/acceleration of a mass produced product.
It is funny as we seem to have this race to fixed deadlines in no time at all for net zero yet nobody has any idea whatsoever which sort of battery is going to power the car.
Lithium ion cells. By the way, I have difficulty communicating because I had a stroke in Broca’s area, the part of the brain that controls speech. 2/8/2021 but I lived again. (My wife helped me compose this.)
One thing that I don't see discussed by everyone reporting about future battery cells is the actaul power that the every day citizen could have on their hands. Yes, let's say we manutacture a graphene battery let's say, 2 times the power for the same density. But a smart enough citizen could also decide to use it in a bad way. Think of an electric machine gun for example.
A battery BANK … that runs your whole house… and charges vehicles .. to coincide with .. wind and solar charging systems…. A stand alone solution for a property… ….
It would be a great step in the right direction if we stopped using Li batteries for static applications. For a start this would reduce the demand for Li, make it cheaper, making EVs cheaper as a result and speed up their adoption to the benefit of all of us. Better, these alternate batteries, if they just had market share should be far cheaper than Li batteries. They are made from cheap readily available elements which can be sourced from multiple suppliers. Better still, for static applications where weight is not a factor, they are technically better than Li batteries. They last far far longer, can be cycled between 0 and 100% with no damage, need simpler electronics to control charging and discharging, are safer from a fire point of view and if you ever need to recycle them, will be far simpler to recycle than Li batteries. There are the ZnBr flow/plating and gel batteries, liquid metal batteries based on SbCa and possibly AlS, redox flow batteries based on Fe and V (so far) and the up and coming Na batteries. Now there is a winner. Each Cubic meter of sea water contains about 33 kg of easily accessed NaCl
Sodium batteries are no good for Ev because what is the most abundant material cars are made of metal, and we know salt is corrosive to metal even with the battery canisters that the battery is made off !
@@FriedChairs Agreed. China is light years ahead of the US in ev and battery tech. But the fossil fuel industry is too big in the US. No Chinese commercial vehicles can be sold in US without a tariff unless the parts are shipped here and assembled here. The US government is a total joke.
kWh is battery capacity if the batteries can hold 4 X the capacity is doesn't mean you can reduce the battery capacity by 4 times it just means the energy density is 4 times greater it doesn't mean you can reduce a 100kwh pack to 25kwh, I would edit and re upload this video becuase it makes you look bad, you need to understand the topic you are talking about or you lose any credibility.
yo the weight saving would be ridiculous combustion engines would be def over sooner than we think. not to mentio ncity storage and home energy storage no more central grids if you ask me ..
So if this works with the loss of weight and extra space you could use two of the smaller batteries with a small generator to rotate charge the batteries giving unlimited miles?
They are never going to make it. They install a kill switch in these cars. The batteries are way to expensive they dont work in cold weather and they wont wrk in hot weather. How many years ago have they tried these go nowhere vehicles. To expensive and horrible to drive
Even with the lower energy density, sodium-ion batteries appear ideal for home and net scale batteries, where size and weight are not as much of a limitation. That would free lithium from those implementations for higher energy density applications like transport.
There is a error at 1:45 in you can't get away with 25Kwh battery packs. The correct answer is you potently may have a battery 25% the size or weight of current batteries. 4 x the energy density doesn't reduce Kwh it reduces size and/or weight.
Came here to say this too. This is a very elementary mistake and really destroys all credibility. I would take it down immedietly if I were him and fix it
Yup i only came here to say the same thing makes it look like he doesn't know what he's talking about
By the video's logic if we had an infinite energy density, we could use a 0Kwh battery. So let's just leave out the battery altogether. :)
Wanted to say this too.
100kWHr is 100kWHr reguardless of weight, mass, or volume.
I appreciate he's not in the electrical field but it really is a silly mistake.
@@Mallchad We all make mistakes from time to time but we grow by accepting our mistake and learning from them. Looking back at my comment I could do with some help from time to time with my grammar. 😕
@7:45 For most energy storage application *Sodium* would be adequate. (For consumer EVs, Airplanes, and other applications like electrocutions, you *_need_* rapid discharges.)
For grid storage, ships and very heavy transport Sodium might do the trick.
Nicely balanced. This one was informative without the usual battery hysteria.
BYD's sodium battery cars' 80 mph max speed is more than the allowed speed limit in 90% of the country.
And most people stop to fuel up or recharge after driving 200 miles anyway.
Cutting lithium out is the way forward!
Sodium does not equal salt. Salt also has chlorine. Also, you said that the lighter air batteries would mean a car requires a quarter of the power. Still like the video though
It is the weight that would be a 1/4 for the same range. The capacity would still be 100kWh. Li-air is not a battery, but a fuel cell when the oxidizer is external so better call it a rechargeable fuel cell.
Really depends on the ability to scale production. Lab batteries are fine for theory.
Yes, I follow all the videos about new batteries using abundant raw materials. I have battery fatigue (and I'm a Chemist). I know Na cathode batteries are already being used for grid energy storage.
Plenty of city dwellers would be OK with the range and top speed of the sodium battery version of the BYD Seagull, assuming that the price is quite low. It's range and speed specs are similar to those of the Nissan Leaf.
The battery that I'm betting on in the not so distant future, because they are building a plant in the US right now, is the lithium sulfur battery. It would be nice if you would have done some background on that. Maybe you could in the future. Thanks for your good work.
There is also one in Switzerland
The best part about lithium sulfur batteries is you will know when they are fully discharged by the rotten egg smell they release when it's time to be recharged
Difficult to keep up with what the future is and the myriad battery technologies. The moral of the story is to keep clear of it all where possible as betting on the wrong technology risks it not being supported and early users just left hung out to dry.
01:45 They wouldn't be 25 kWh packs would they...
Sodium-Ion for static applications and Lithium-Ion for mobile applications.
Critical error made at 1:45
If you have 4x as energy dense battery you still have to have 100kWh in your battery pack, its just smaller. You cant say you can have a 25kWh pack instead..
Why don't you quote your sources? Which University?
Slower charging batteries should be used for grid power
Stationary storage with sodium ion battery?
Happy Easter, TTS. And it's pronounced [mo LIB de num] TYVM. (graphics "coulumbic" and "catode", too) 3 demerits. ;)
Another great vid, though, guys. You always pack a whole lot of info in each one. Keep 'em coming!
Give us all you have, all you can make - Tesla
Great information.
Thanks
кислород в батарейках - опасен в жарких странах и сверх-эксплуатации
Where in the US can you legally drive on a public road at greater than 130kph?
Although the solid-state printed battery looks very promising in the sense of the fact that could actually be done. But the problem is manufacturability at speed. I have never seen a 3-D printing machine that can possibly pump out the batteries like the Tesla, 4680 at a massive scale like that. I could be wrong, but it sure doesn’t look like it. Come on just look at what they’re showing as far as 3-D printing a battery is slow,multiple layers of going back-and-forth back-and-forth. Get the drift?!
Big mistake @1:45: not 25 kWh battery! You still will need a battery with 100 kWh electrical capacity to gain the range of the car! You just will need a fourth of the battery volume. I'd suggest, you quickly edit this video.
Why don't we ever see these lab made cells sent to a UA-camr like Adam Savage for showing and testing? Even a single Ah/Wh discharge test of one of these lab made cells would wow the crap out of everyone and possibly generate more investment/acceleration of a mass produced product.
It is funny as we seem to have this race to fixed deadlines in no time at all for net zero yet nobody has any idea whatsoever which sort of battery is going to power the car.
Good video
Could you make a video that Tesla number 2 factory in China mainland?
Bring on bi-directional Elon!
🎉 Musk-eteer Go Tesla woohoo 😎🌎🌍😺.
my brain is still hung up on petrol and diesel conversions.
snap me out of it!
hi
It would be cool to see the semi use solar. 53' trailer roof covered with solar
Some claims he made are not true. 1:45 is one.
Lithium ion cells. By the way, I have difficulty communicating because I had a stroke in Broca’s area, the part of the brain that controls speech. 2/8/2021 but I lived again. (My wife helped me compose this.)
Nice job. Well-researched. Good graphics. Significant improvement, and you covered a very difficult topic. ;)
I love your videos
Note error in schematic diagram cathode was spelt catode
Happy Ester Sunday ~ ! 💝 💯 👏 🎉 🎃 🙏 🚀 🦋 🌹👍 🤖 🎅 ✝ 🎄 🌝 !
One thing that I don't see discussed by everyone reporting about future battery cells is the actaul power that the every day citizen could have on their hands. Yes, let's say we manutacture a graphene battery let's say, 2 times the power for the same density. But a smart enough citizen could also decide to use it in a bad way. Think of an electric machine gun for example.
( I've seen batteries explode while charging!)
A battery BANK … that runs your whole house… and charges vehicles .. to coincide with .. wind and solar charging systems…. A stand alone solution for a property… ….
It would be a great step in the right direction if we stopped using Li batteries for static applications. For a start this would reduce the demand for Li, make it cheaper, making EVs cheaper as a result and speed up their adoption to the benefit of all of us. Better, these alternate batteries, if they just had market share should be far cheaper than Li batteries. They are made from cheap readily available elements which can be sourced from multiple suppliers. Better still, for static applications where weight is not a factor, they are technically better than Li batteries. They last far far longer, can be cycled between 0 and 100% with no damage, need simpler electronics to control charging and discharging, are safer from a fire point of view and if you ever need to recycle them, will be far simpler to recycle than Li batteries. There are the ZnBr flow/plating and gel batteries, liquid metal batteries based on SbCa and possibly AlS, redox flow batteries based on Fe and V (so far) and the up and coming Na batteries. Now there is a winner. Each Cubic meter of sea water contains about 33 kg of easily accessed NaCl
swap able sodium battery in ev boost car/bike industry
when will AC batteries come
Sodium batteries are no good for Ev because what is the most abundant material cars are made of metal, and we know salt is corrosive to metal even with the battery canisters that the battery is made off !
The fossil fuel industry will never allow this technology to develop
BS. That industry doesn’t carry weight in China so perhaps it won’t happen in the US but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen.
@@FriedChairs Agreed. China is light years ahead of the US in ev and battery tech. But the fossil fuel industry is too big in the US. No Chinese commercial vehicles can be sold in US without a tariff unless the parts are shipped here and assembled here. The US government is a total joke.
kWh is battery capacity if the batteries can hold 4 X the capacity is doesn't mean you can reduce the battery capacity by 4 times it just means the energy density is 4 times greater it doesn't mean you can reduce a 100kwh pack to 25kwh, I would edit and re upload this video becuase it makes you look bad, you need to understand the topic you are talking about or you lose any credibility.
bloombox?
yo the weight saving would be ridiculous combustion engines would be def over sooner than we think.
not to mentio ncity storage and home energy storage no more central grids if you ask me ..
So if this works with the loss of weight and extra space you could use two of the smaller batteries with a small generator to rotate charge the batteries giving unlimited miles?
No fossil fueled generators allowed! No fossil fuels! Period!
@@acmefixer1 that's why two battery banks, one to run the vehicle the other to run an ac motor driven generator .
@@tinybetron8701
Are you serious? 🤣🤣
Some Tesla Semi content would be appreciated, if there’s anything new!
Namely, is there going to be a sleeper version of the Semi? That’s critical for it to be accepted industry-wide.
( I've heard it said that only a fool will relay on a battery 🔋 !) Ps . In a movie - mars - .
Third comment??
Wow you're bad at math. it would still be a 100kwh pack just weigh as much as a current 25kwh pack.
Hydrogen is the future
They are never going to make it. They install a kill switch in these cars. The batteries are way to expensive they dont work in cold weather and they wont wrk in hot weather. How many years ago have they tried these go nowhere vehicles. To expensive and horrible to drive