Basically you are creating an x-axis cursor, or more accurately - one half of an x-axis cursor. I have a Tektronix 2246A which has both voltage and time cursor functions built into it. I find them very useful.
Yes to Glen's idea re video on sweeping IF's, particularly if w/o expensive equipment. Unrelated suggested video- I'd like to play with using the XY mode, particularly with Lissajous patterns to check components. I'm finding it more complicated than it probably be, possibly due to cable/ground/impedance matching problems (like most inexperienced users). Eventually I'd like to create single characteristic curve traces of transistors and tubes (since I can't afford a curve tracer).
i bet i could use this concept on my ancient tektronix storage o-scope that I used back in the day (way back still in school) to add trace marking functionality, a very good idea indeed..
I can’t find this schematic, is it available. Unless you think it’s a fool’s errand, I had an idea for a frequency marker for IF alignment. I recently acquired a HP8601A to learn about visual alignment on old tube radios. My idea is tee off the sweep signal feeding the radio, run the tee’d portion through a narrow crystal filter (455Khz) and use that as a pulse to trigger the Z-axis. Using your circuit here seemed like a good starting point. BTW, your videos have been invaluable in teaching me how to actually use an oscilloscope. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Unfortunately, when I made this video 11 years ago, I didn't scan a copy of the schematic into a PDF, so you'll have to pause the video and re-draw the schematic yourself. I like your application - should work well!
A question. My HP 8566B while being a great spectrum ana. does NOT have a tracking gen. You mentioned sweeping a filter with a sweep gen and using a scope to view this. The TV guys use to do this to align TV IF's before the whole TV was put onto a couple of IC's. Will you consider doing a video on sweeping IF's? Most of my work is at 455KHz but I do some 6MHz and 9MHz If work too. I really appreciate your videos and you taking the time; I have learned some neat stuff. 73, Glenn WA4AOS DSM Labs
Neat. But if you somehow had access to the ramp used by the X deflection plate, you’d be able to use a couple comparators to make such a circuit that doesn’t depend on the time/div.
Is Vcc 5V or 10V or 12V? In case of using 10V, a low cost voltmeter connected to pin 6 or 7 will indicate directly the multiplier. Can you answer please?
1) If I understand what you are doing here, I'm wondering if the same thing could be accomplished using an external pulse generator. Use the pulse generator's ext sync connected to the A-Bate output. Then input from the pulse generator to the z-axis a pulse and vary the width and delay. Is that correct? Could you then select which channel this applies to, or would it affect both channels simultaneously (without choice)?
Great video. I have an old Tek 485 with the Z axis input that this could be used on. If I had 1/10th the knowledge of yourself, Joe Smith and Paul Carlson I would be a happy man. I sure wish I had the interest at 18 as I do at 59 for this stuff. I surely would have went to school and made a career of it. I do pretty well being mostly self taught ideas like this do cross my mind but don’t have the chops to design the circuits. I will keep reading my tech books. 👍
I use markers on my HP 8566B spectrum analyzer. I have not considered having markers on my scope. but what a great idea. I can think of a few uses where this could be helpful. Often I make measurements of timing of one type or another. Going back and forth to the scope, it is easy to forget the previous timings while making repetitive measurements on multiple channels. At least the marker would make a perfect memory jogger. Hi Thanks and 73, Glenn WA4AOS DSM Labs
That is very clever! However, the sweep rate will vary with the horizontal scaling making the timing different for every time scale. I suppose you could switch in different timing caps up to the capability of the 555, but this otherwise works well only on 2-3 adjacent scales.
2) I'm still fuzzy at exactly how to use the marker. It is just a visual clue that you place arbitrarily, right? Since there are no readouts, how does placing the marker help you make measurements?
Well, if you have a func gen that can create the short/fast pulses to create the spot on the Z axis, you could simply apply this pulse directly to the input and use it directly.
The TDS3000 series is a good, solid scope. Keep in mind that the design of these scopes will well over a decade old, so it won't have many of the nice features of more modern digital scopes (deep memory, high resolution display, etc.), but should still be a reliable instrument if in good condition. They still command a relatively high price in the used market. You might find a new value-brand digital scope for the same or less money than a used TDS3000 series.
Sure, no problem Adam. I do have a bit of a bias towards Tektronix, but that started long before I started working for them! ;-). I try to be mostly impartial in my videos, but it's certainly no secret that I'm a Tek fan.
When I was a youngster (1972-1974) my father brought a Tek 321 (1 ch. field service scope). Till that time I tuched at tech junior college only gray Heathkits. The world shaked that evening :-) could not believe such beautiful electronic things existed in this world.
Are there any other outputs on 2225? You'll need some way to synchronizing the start of the sweep on the scope with the start of the monostable timer circuit so that the delay is always relative to the start of the trace.
Bottom line - you can't. All this does is momentarily intensify the trace at a selected spot. There is no easy way (without tapping into the vertical circuit) to determine the voltage at the intensified location.
@@w2aew I know that it's only part of the circuit I was thinking with 465 tek using the output Channel Or Making a input Channel tap But The esayest be using it with the 2nd Channel and overlapping the Channel Be very cool to make more circuits to do things like this I'd use it quite a bit
yesterday i have downloaded the schematics of 2235 tektronics and have seen that there is a (7) point in the circuit board for an A's complement gate i can show you the schematics of it if you kindly give your email.id to send the diagram i hope you reply to me at the earliest
+soumyadip sikdar You need an output that is synchronous with the start of the trace or the trigger. Without that, you have no way of starting the delay timer to make a trace marker. The 2235 only has a Z-axis input, and no output that can be used as a sweep-start sync (like trigger out, main sweep gate, etc.). So, you're out of luck unless you dig inside the scope... ...which could be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.
Anyone else tap youtube's "latest videos" only to find videos 8 years of age like this one? (Don't get me wrong. I love this channel, that's not my point.)
Excellent presentation. I especially appreciate the use of the 555 to build this elegant demonstration. This is something I can actually implement!
7 years old. But beautifully explained. Great little tutorial.
That was an excellent demonstration that is understandable to us old radio guys. Thanks.
Basically you are creating an x-axis cursor, or more accurately - one half of an x-axis cursor. I have a Tektronix 2246A which has both voltage and time cursor functions built into it. I find them very useful.
Can't gain this type of insight anywhere else. Thanks, Joe k4djv.
How about using timer-counter with A gate and marker pulse? or with two separate marker pulses? should give nice time readout
Another precious video ! Thanks a lot !
Really well explained. Thank you
Yes to Glen's idea re video on sweeping IF's, particularly if w/o expensive equipment.
Unrelated suggested video- I'd like to play with using the XY mode,
particularly with Lissajous patterns to check components. I'm finding it
more complicated than it probably be, possibly due to
cable/ground/impedance matching problems (like most inexperienced users).
Eventually I'd like to create single characteristic curve traces of
transistors and tubes (since I can't afford a curve tracer).
i bet i could use this concept on my ancient tektronix storage o-scope that I used back in the day (way back still in school) to add trace marking functionality, a very good idea indeed..
Nice project. Thank you.
I can’t find this schematic, is it available. Unless you think it’s a fool’s errand, I had an idea for a frequency marker for IF alignment. I recently acquired a HP8601A to learn about visual alignment on old tube radios. My idea is tee off the sweep signal feeding the radio, run the tee’d portion through a narrow crystal filter (455Khz) and use that as a pulse to trigger the Z-axis. Using your circuit here seemed like a good starting point. BTW, your videos have been invaluable in teaching me how to actually use an oscilloscope. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Unfortunately, when I made this video 11 years ago, I didn't scan a copy of the schematic into a PDF, so you'll have to pause the video and re-draw the schematic yourself. I like your application - should work well!
A question. My HP 8566B while being a great spectrum ana. does NOT have a tracking gen.
You mentioned sweeping a filter with a sweep gen and using a scope to view this. The TV guys use to do this to align TV IF's before the whole TV was put onto a couple of IC's.
Will you consider doing a video on sweeping IF's? Most of my work is at 455KHz but I do some 6MHz and 9MHz If work too.
I really appreciate your videos and you taking the time; I have learned some neat stuff.
73,
Glenn WA4AOS
DSM Labs
Neat. But if you somehow had access to the ramp used by the X deflection plate, you’d be able to use a couple comparators to make such a circuit that doesn’t depend on the time/div.
Yes, this is true. More than one way to achieve this result.
Is Vcc 5V or 10V or 12V? In case of using 10V, a low cost voltmeter connected to pin 6 or 7 will indicate directly the multiplier. Can you answer please?
1) If I understand what you are doing here, I'm wondering if the same thing could be accomplished using an external pulse generator. Use the pulse generator's ext sync connected to the A-Bate output. Then input from the pulse generator to the z-axis a pulse and vary the width and delay. Is that correct? Could you then select which channel this applies to, or would it affect both channels simultaneously (without choice)?
Great video. I have an old Tek 485 with the Z axis input that this could be used on. If I had 1/10th the knowledge of yourself, Joe Smith and Paul Carlson I would be a happy man. I sure wish I had the interest at 18 as I do at 59 for this stuff. I surely would have went to school and made a career of it. I do pretty well being mostly self taught ideas like this do cross my mind but don’t have the chops to design the circuits. I will keep reading my tech books. 👍
We're of the same vintage (age) - it's never to late to keep learning...
I use markers on my HP 8566B spectrum analyzer. I have not considered having markers on my scope. but what a great idea. I can think of a few uses where this could be helpful. Often I make measurements of timing of one type or another. Going back and forth to the scope, it is easy to forget the previous timings while making repetitive measurements on multiple channels. At least
the marker would make a perfect memory jogger. Hi
Thanks and 73,
Glenn WA4AOS
DSM Labs
That is very clever! However, the sweep rate will vary with the horizontal scaling making the timing different for every time scale. I suppose you could switch in different timing caps up to the capability of the 555, but this otherwise works well only on 2-3 adjacent scales.
Thank you so much. Lots to learn! And your videos really help.
2) I'm still fuzzy at exactly how to use the marker. It is just a visual clue that you place arbitrarily, right? Since there are no readouts, how does placing the marker help you make measurements?
great video.
How many Volts can the Z input take? I've put about 12 and it barely did anything. I dont really want to destroy my 70's scope :P
I am thinking Schmidt triggers could be used for a narrower, sharper pulse (after the diferentiator capacitor)
Sure, that would work!
Awesome! btw is that how they created that old Pong video game?
Great videos, great ideas. Thank you!
Another excellent video. Thanks
hmmm what is simpler than two 555's......OH!!! a 556!!! lol nice video! I always wanted to k ow what those outputs on the back of my tek scope was.
For those of us who cannnot afford a time mark generator, could you use a func gen and some technique like this to aid scope cal?
Well, if you have a func gen that can create the short/fast pulses to create the spot on the Z axis, you could simply apply this pulse directly to the input and use it directly.
@@w2aew Thanks Alan, so the secret is in the pulse duration. I guess that makes sense. Not sure mine will, I'll have to explore. Cheers!
Since you know alot about Tektronix scopes how is the TDS 3032 scope???
The TDS3000 series is a good, solid scope. Keep in mind that the design of these scopes will well over a decade old, so it won't have many of the nice features of more modern digital scopes (deep memory, high resolution display, etc.), but should still be a reliable instrument if in good condition. They still command a relatively high price in the used market. You might find a new value-brand digital scope for the same or less money than a used TDS3000 series.
Sure, no problem Adam. I do have a bit of a bias towards Tektronix, but that started long before I started working for them! ;-). I try to be mostly impartial in my videos, but it's certainly no secret that I'm a Tek fan.
When I was a youngster (1972-1974) my father brought a Tek 321 (1 ch. field service scope). Till that time I tuched at tech junior college only gray Heathkits. The world shaked that evening :-) could not believe such beautiful electronic things existed in this world.
Hi Alan
My Tektronix 2225 has a Z input put not the gate input. Can I still create a Marker without the gate input.
Thx
Are there any other outputs on 2225? You'll need some way to synchronizing the start of the sweep on the scope with the start of the monostable timer circuit so that the delay is always relative to the start of the trace.
***** The 2225 only has a Z input. Any other solutions for a marker of sorts.
How could you use it measure a voltage and tell you value like full cursor setups
Bottom line - you can't. All this does is momentarily intensify the trace at a selected spot. There is no easy way (without tapping into the vertical circuit) to determine the voltage at the intensified location.
@@w2aew I know that it's only part of the circuit
I was thinking with 465 tek using the output Channel
Or
Making a input Channel tap
But
The esayest be using it with the 2nd Channel and overlapping the Channel
Be very cool to make more circuits to do things like this
I'd use it quite a bit
nice teaching
yesterday i have downloaded the schematics of 2235 tektronics and have seen that there is a (7) point in the circuit board for an A's complement gate i can show you the schematics of it if you kindly give your email.id to send the diagram
i hope you reply to me at the earliest
Amazing - thx!
very cool
Thanks.
nice ! THANKS.
i have 2235 tektronix oscilloscope having only z axis ;if i can make a trace marker
can you please tell me how to implement using a circuit
please...
+soumyadip sikdar You need an output that is synchronous with the start of the trace or the trigger. Without that, you have no way of starting the delay timer to make a trace marker. The 2235 only has a Z-axis input, and no output that can be used as a sweep-start sync (like trigger out, main sweep gate, etc.). So, you're out of luck unless you dig inside the scope... ...which could be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.
Ok.
Anyone else tap youtube's "latest videos" only to find videos 8 years of age like this one?
(Don't get me wrong. I love this channel, that's not my point.)