For the chest you can press the dumbell and then do the fly down. This allows for a fly heavier than what you can handle. This also can be used for lateral raises.
Bulgarian split squat negatives. Get a hand rail or something to help yourself back up. I know that the HIT dogmatists hate on single leg work, but I think it's a great way to load the legs when you don't have weights/equipment.
I remember when I started training that I couldn't do a single body-weight dip, so I did negatives. My strength gains in the dip came a lot quicker than in other exercises.
I did negative training with Dips today. I eliminated the concentric phase by jumping up to the start position instead of pressing up if that makes sense. No partner needed.. Or you could use a step stool to get in the top position. Loved it. I'm going to continue using this method.
Interesting. There seems to be a seesaw battle in research how effective it really is, comes back into fashion every several decades. Glad to hear quality researchers like Steele and Fisher are examining afresh.
This is legit Jay. Just left the gym,no mental and very little physical fatigue fatigue as is experienced with failure on the concentric. Everything else is the same and i feel like I worked harder, my breathing was heavy even as i was sitting in my car 10 minutes after the workout. My workout wasnt perfect as I had to experiment and required multiple set extenders on the eccentric.
Hit a set of chest press to failure, then drop to some negative only pushups? Maybe same thing with bodyweight rows/chin-ups? Basically bodyweight finishers.
Awesome, Jay, some of my favorites HIT practitioners were at that event. I myself am experimenting with negative training added to my routine. The difference is that I add it after I completed a concentric movement. For example. Recently, I did a dumbbell curl movement. Until failure. Then moved on to a dumbbell, concentrated curl using my other arm to lift the weight and then lower it down slowly. So far the combination of both has been intense and have seen somewhat of a good result thus far since my arms are stubborn to grow.
Very interesting... very curious to see where your experiment wil go. Keep us updated. Maybe you can use some clients to experiment on with your theory
I followed standard HIT training with the method you teach, but today I slowed down negatives to 10 sec. My thoughts are: time under tension went up, I felt muscle (fast twitch fibers) better after each excercise, but was less fatigued and less out of breath/dizzy between exercises. Is this fine? I am not sure, but I feel like this method reduces aerobic benefits (I can be wrong). More or less I think the training can be more intense this way...
Would it not be better/easy to include this by doing static hold then lower extremely slowly on the last rep once failed on the positive - surely that achieves the same outcome? (Just thinking for those without training partners)
Wow, thanks for the update. It's always good to hear from you. Standing on the shoulders of giants. In the industry . You distilled the information quite handily.. I've Always used eccentric training.. To an advantage. .. Recovery must be Monitor more closely 🤔👍
The idea of increased hypertrophy by optimising the eccentric phase is still speculative though, yes? In the sense its not confirmed. I'm dubious on evolutionary grounds, why would the body be evolved to get more muscle gain from eccentric action? To help you catch falling rocks or something? In any case, even if its true, why go to extraordinary lengths to be "negative only?". A simple solution that doesnt require a new industry of machines, or the next wave of wierd ninja exercises, or a training partner: Faster concentric (kept safe), slower eccentric. Suppose you have a ratio of 1:5 concentric to eccentric on your reps, and your time under load is 60 seconds. You'd have 50 seconds of optimal work. No need to be purist about negative only, and things are kept straightforward: focusing on form and effort.
11:20 Get a step and cheat your way to the top of a pull up. Then slowly lower yourself. Repeat. I usually do this at the end of a regular pull up set. But maybe I'll try to just do the negatives. Might need to have some chains over my shoulders.
I’d be interested on your view of ARXfit and the cheaper Virtuvian trainer - both use computer-controlled adaptive resistance motors (not weights) and can offer increased load in the negative phase.
Milon machines have always focused on the eccentric part of an exercise. They allow for an easy increase of the eccentric resistance. German company with roots in physiotherapy.
do a unilateral test on few different muscles while only changing a single variable (left bicep 1s conc, 3s ecc vs right bicep 1s conc, 10s ecc) while keeping weight and all other variables the same, taken to failure 😊
@@jeremyamin5938And they ARE FANTASTIC! Darden put several subjects through workouts and the the results were insane! See is Book Bodyfat Breakthrough for details of that. It's a shame they are not more widely available!
I do normal 2/4 speeds for those i can't do BANA on but i may try doing a 2/10 speed for then and see how it goes. I just trained Heavy Duty shoulders and arms tonight so next workout is lower body on Saturday morning. Should be fun!
I’m interested in seeing how this works out for people… after my little basketball league I want to start this hiit work out program before the next basketball league session so I want to see how this could benefit my workouts
HIIT and HIT are different. Confusing, I know, but they’re VERY different. HIT is usually one exercise per muscle group, slow rep cadence, 6-12 reps, taken to failure.
@@Muzicboy3 I do. I’m currently doing a split with multiple exercises per muscle group, but Jay and other HIT advocates would likely say it’s unnecessary. But yeah, currently, for each exercise, i do 4 seconds concentric, 1 second pause (or squeeze depending on the exercise like bicep curl for example), 9 second eccentric, 1 second smooth turnaround. When i try to lift the weight for 10 seconds and it doesn’t budge, I call that failure. I’ll do a rest pause, hit failure again. Another rest pause, lift it once, and then do an ultra long negative. If I feel like I’m not growing, I’ll experiment with dropsets or adding another set with a 90s rest, but generally, I just do the one set with the 2 rest pauses and kill it with the super long negative. That’s the setup I’m playing with currently.
you can do negative only trainging with pull up and dip? but there are so many argument that eccentric are more fatiguing and concentric produce more hypertrophy?
Jay also check out the recent study about the group that did 30 weeks of training and one group took 10 weeks off and they had the same results in the end👍 Cheers mate
If you're talking about who I'm thinking, he says that last rep is more stimulating but it takes so long to fully recover that the benefit is outweighed by the fatigue.
@@chadbolding88 And theoretically, this could mean that we can use higher frequencies instead of resting more. Because both of those would work in response to too much fatigue.
@@joojotin this is one hundred percent true. You can stay at higher levels of mmps throughout the week with more first sets which are the freshest therefore the most stimulating.
This is true. And applies to advanced trainees with multiple years under their belt. I find that the slow tempo to failure creates so much fatigue i cannot recover from it properly due to the higher strength. Instead a heavy weight and just stopping the set immeidately at technical failure (cannot complete the rep) better. The negative doesn't produce any stimulus, it only serves to standardise form and prevent injury. Obviously low reps and heavy weight have a higher inherent risk than the moderate weight used in the slower tempo HIT, thats where the compromise is.
Negative only pulldown are simple. Stand and hold the handle in the fully contracted position, keep it held and sit down, do negative, stand and hold in fully contracted position, repeat. Same with cable rows. Upper body military pressing would be doable with a barbell in a power rack but it would be unstable since you’d be doing an overhead squat with the weight to regain the overhead position. Could do weighted pushups with a really slow negative and reset the top position without pushing by rolling onto your back and sitting up etc. but it would look stupid. A dipping machine with an aggressive forward lean so it’s more a decline press would work by standing and resetting.
For the chest you can press the dumbell and then do the fly down. This allows for a fly heavier than what you can handle. This also can be used for lateral raises.
20:00 Training frequency!! THANK YOU, JAY!!!
Bulgarian split squat negatives. Get a hand rail or something to help yourself back up.
I know that the HIT dogmatists hate on single leg work, but I think it's a great way to load the legs when you don't have weights/equipment.
Yes same here.
I appreciate you putting out the latest research. Thank you!
I remember when I started training that I couldn't do a single body-weight dip, so I did negatives. My strength gains in the dip came a lot quicker than in other exercises.
I did negative training with Dips today. I eliminated the concentric phase by jumping up to the start position instead of pressing up if that makes sense. No partner needed.. Or you could use a step stool to get in the top position. Loved it. I'm going to continue using this method.
Interesting. There seems to be a seesaw battle in research how effective it really is, comes back into fashion every several decades. Glad to hear quality researchers like Steele and Fisher are examining afresh.
And last week you called Super Slow boring, lol
This is legit Jay. Just left the gym,no mental and very little physical fatigue fatigue as is experienced with failure on the concentric. Everything else is the same and i feel like I worked harder, my breathing was heavy even as i was sitting in my car 10 minutes after the workout. My workout wasnt perfect as I had to experiment and required multiple set extenders on the eccentric.
That's interesting about less fatigue. Could be better for the systemic systemic, I want to try this more.
Dorian Yates always said to over emphasize the negative.
Bench press I put the safety pins on the rack so I can fail then do a slow negative unit I hit the pins, then slide out under it 👍
Hit a set of chest press to failure, then drop to some negative only pushups? Maybe same thing with bodyweight rows/chin-ups? Basically bodyweight finishers.
Awesome, Jay, some of my favorites HIT practitioners were at that event. I myself am experimenting with negative training added to my routine. The difference is that I add it after I completed a concentric movement. For example. Recently, I did a dumbbell curl movement. Until failure. Then moved on to a dumbbell, concentrated curl using my other arm to lift the weight and then lower it down slowly. So far the combination of both has been intense and have seen somewhat of a good result thus far since my arms are stubborn to grow.
Excellent Work Jay. Keep it up.
Lifting is simple, but poeple insist on making it complicated.
Very interesting... very curious to see where your experiment wil go. Keep us updated. Maybe you can use some clients to experiment on with your theory
I followed standard HIT training with the method you teach, but today I slowed down negatives to 10 sec. My thoughts are: time under tension went up, I felt muscle (fast twitch fibers) better after each excercise, but was less fatigued and less out of breath/dizzy between exercises. Is this fine? I am not sure, but I feel like this method reduces aerobic benefits (I can be wrong). More or less I think the training can be more intense this way...
One of the benefits is that it builds improved neurological strength, allowing you to overcome sticking points.
Would it not be better/easy to include this by doing static hold then lower extremely slowly on the last rep once failed on the positive - surely that achieves the same outcome? (Just thinking for those without training partners)
Pushing through failure is optimal than statics. (At least that's what he said in his previous vid.)
What about maintaining tension throughout the whole set till failure? Did that just go out the window? Neg. only training would have a lot of pauses
Yates included negative training on certain movements sporadically as well👍
Wow, thanks for the update.
It's always good to hear from you. Standing on the shoulders of giants. In the industry . You distilled the information quite handily..
I've
Always used eccentric training.. To an advantage. ..
Recovery
must be Monitor more closely 🤔👍
The idea of increased hypertrophy by optimising the eccentric phase is still speculative though, yes? In the sense its not confirmed.
I'm dubious on evolutionary grounds, why would the body be evolved to get more muscle gain from eccentric action? To help you catch falling rocks or something?
In any case, even if its true, why go to extraordinary lengths to be "negative only?".
A simple solution that doesnt require a new industry of machines, or the next wave of wierd ninja exercises, or a training partner:
Faster concentric (kept safe), slower eccentric.
Suppose you have a ratio of 1:5 concentric to eccentric on your reps, and your time under load is 60 seconds. You'd have 50 seconds of optimal work.
No need to be purist about negative only, and things are kept straightforward: focusing on form and effort.
11:20 Get a step and cheat your way to the top of a pull up. Then slowly lower yourself. Repeat.
I usually do this at the end of a regular pull up set. But maybe I'll try to just do the negatives. Might need to have some chains over my shoulders.
I’d be interested on your view of ARXfit and the cheaper Virtuvian trainer - both use computer-controlled adaptive resistance motors (not weights) and can offer increased load in the negative phase.
How can you guys afford ARX machines? They are like 50 grand
Milon machines have always focused on the eccentric part of an exercise. They allow for an easy increase of the eccentric resistance. German company with roots in physiotherapy.
do a unilateral test on few different muscles while only changing a single variable (left bicep 1s conc, 3s ecc vs right bicep 1s conc, 10s ecc) while keeping weight and all other variables the same, taken to failure 😊
I think Ellington Darden mentioned a line of equipment that loads the negative heavier.
Tilted weight stack right?
X-Force. They look fantastic
@ yep that’s the line.
@@jeremyamin5938And they ARE FANTASTIC! Darden put several subjects through workouts and the the results were insane! See is Book Bodyfat Breakthrough for details of that. It's a shame they are not more widely available!
21:44 interesting. So 5 to 10 sets per muscle per week? What if you combined those sets with 10 second negatives?
I do normal 2/4 speeds for those i can't do BANA on but i may try doing a 2/10 speed for then and see how it goes. I just trained Heavy Duty shoulders and arms tonight so next workout is lower body on Saturday morning. Should be fun!
I’m interested in seeing how this works out for people… after my little basketball league I want to start this hiit work out program before the next basketball league session so I want to see how this could benefit my workouts
HIIT and HIT are different. Confusing, I know, but they’re VERY different.
HIT is usually one exercise per muscle group, slow rep cadence, 6-12 reps, taken to failure.
Thanks so much for clarification? Do you do the HIT workouts?
@@Muzicboy3 I do. I’m currently doing a split with multiple exercises per muscle group, but Jay and other HIT advocates would likely say it’s unnecessary.
But yeah, currently, for each exercise, i do 4 seconds concentric, 1 second pause (or squeeze depending on the exercise like bicep curl for example), 9 second eccentric, 1 second smooth turnaround.
When i try to lift the weight for 10 seconds and it doesn’t budge, I call that failure. I’ll do a rest pause, hit failure again. Another rest pause, lift it once, and then do an ultra long negative.
If I feel like I’m not growing, I’ll experiment with dropsets or adding another set with a 90s rest, but generally, I just do the one set with the 2 rest pauses and kill it with the super long negative. That’s the setup I’m playing with currently.
Vitruvian, 440 lbs of digital weight capable of negative only training, no spotter needed
you can do negative only trainging with pull up and dip? but there are so many argument that eccentric are more fatiguing and concentric produce more hypertrophy?
Your central nervous system won't be able to do that every workout
that's over ten years old
Jay also check out the recent study about the group that did 30 weeks of training and one group took 10 weeks off and they had the same results in the end👍
Cheers mate
He did. Look thrue his videos. I think it's pretty recent
What are your thoughts on people saying that 1rir yields the same motor recruitment as training to failure when using low reps and heavy weight?
If you're talking about who I'm thinking, he says that last rep is more stimulating but it takes so long to fully recover that the benefit is outweighed by the fatigue.
@@chadbolding88 And theoretically, this could mean that we can use higher frequencies instead of resting more. Because both of those would work in response to too much fatigue.
@@joojotin this is one hundred percent true. You can stay at higher levels of mmps throughout the week with more first sets which are the freshest therefore the most stimulating.
This is true. And applies to advanced trainees with multiple years under their belt. I find that the slow tempo to failure creates so much fatigue i cannot recover from it properly due to the higher strength. Instead a heavy weight and just stopping the set immeidately at technical failure (cannot complete the rep) better. The negative doesn't produce any stimulus, it only serves to standardise form and prevent injury. Obviously low reps and heavy weight have a higher inherent risk than the moderate weight used in the slower tempo HIT, thats where the compromise is.
@Avoidantcoper so do slow tempo till you're at 1 rir?
Dardens 30/30/30!
Because my new gym has a lot of old cybex single axis equipment, I have incorporated a 2/8 rep speed BANA 2:1 training protocol and I am loving it!
Negative only pulldown are simple. Stand and hold the handle in the fully contracted position, keep it held and sit down, do negative, stand and hold in fully contracted position, repeat. Same with cable rows.
Upper body military pressing would be doable with a barbell in a power rack but it would be unstable since you’d be doing an overhead squat with the weight to regain the overhead position. Could do weighted pushups with a really slow negative and reset the top position without pushing by rolling onto your back and sitting up etc. but it would look stupid. A dipping machine with an aggressive forward lean so it’s more a decline press would work by standing and resetting.