What Happened to the Italian Soldiers Abroad After the Armistice of 1943?
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2022
- In the summer of 1943 Italian dictator Benito Mussolini fell from power. The Italian King formed a new government led by Pietro Badoglio. Under his leadership Italy would surrender in September 1943. Italian troops outside Italy were left without orders. What happened to them? What happened to Italian troops stationed in Greece, Albania, Yugoslavia and France during World War II when the Italian capitulation came around? The focus of this video is on the Italian soldiers abroad in Europe.
History Hustle presents: What Happened to the Italian Soldiers Outside Italy After Italy's Surrender?
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OTHER VIDEOS
Italian Occupation of Yugoslavia:
• The Italian Occupation...
Italian Army of WW2:
• The Italian Army in Wo...
Mussolini's Fall from Power:
• How Did Mussolini Fall...
Greece during World War II:
• Greece during World Wa...
SOURCES
- Inside Hitler’s Greece. The Experience of Occupation, 1941-44 (Mark Mazower).
- Albania at War, 1939-1945 (Bernd Jürgen Fischer).
- Hitler's New Disorder. The Second World War in Yugoslavia (Stevan K. Pavlowitch).
- War and Revolution in Yugoslavia, 1941-1945. Occupation and Collaboration (Jozo Tomasevich).
- Mussolini's Army in the French Riviera: Italy's Occupation of France (Emanuele Sica).
IMAGES
Images from commons.wikimedia.org.
MUSIC
"Constancy Part One" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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"Prelude and Action" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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"The Descent" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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"Division" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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"Crossing the Chasm" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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SOUNDS
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Wanna ask something? Send me an email at: historyhustle[at]gmail.com
Italian Occupation of Yugoslavia: ua-cam.com/video/Hk2Fm8oYHbA/v-deo.html
Italian Army of WW2: ua-cam.com/video/63-Q2X-bs-Q/v-deo.html
Mussolini's Fall from Power: ua-cam.com/video/rbEA1jorCxQ/v-deo.html
Greece during World War II: ua-cam.com/video/RxaFsQmQogA/v-deo.html
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@@marcoskehl 👍
don't forget in China!! they defended after the armistice a Garnison with civilian, they fightet against the Japanese! 👍a fair and very detailed describing of the events that took place! thank you for that
Thank you for making this video. My father was in the Italian Navy stationed in the annexed part of Montenegro. He was on land with two shipmates when the armistice was announced. Since they knew that their ship would be a target of the Germans, they stole a rowboat and rowed back to Italy across the Adriatic. It took 36 hours, and one person took turns bailing out water while the other two rowed. When they got to Italy, the other two headed north and were captured by the Germans. My father got to a family that gave him civilian clothes and he made it back to his hometown in the south (Puglia). He was 19 years old and 4 years later emigrated to the U.S. However, shortly before leaving, he was arrested for desertion, but was found not guilty given the circumstances, and was allowed to emigrate.
Wow! Nice story. Thanks for sharing!
i am surprised that the burecracy cared about "desertions" after they lost the war. Like jesus man, what do you want more from these people?
@@zaighamabbas2041 the state needed an army because the Yugoslavians were occupying istria
Would make a good plot for a movie
@@mistermakeralquds Story sure,
but not nice! Bye.
My grandfather was near the Don. He was italian and for him was a real nightmare. He had to decide if continue to fight with the Wermacht or refuse the offer and work in a Lager in Poland. He spoke german quite good because from the italian Tyrol. His decision was taken because he was used to live in the frozen Alps. With the russian winter the fight was simply a suicide. In Lager he was able to survive and return home walking alone. The situation was absolutely crazy. A real drama.
I can imagine. Thanks for sharing this.
@@HistoryHustle like always thanks a lot to touch those things..great job!
Great video as always!! My late grandmother was a teenager at that time, in a small village in central Greece. She had told me a few things about the Italian soldiers, such as they were closer to us culturally, they were bringing food and were all eating together like a family and that generally they were polite and nice. But she also told me that one day the Germans came, arrested the Italians and soon after the villagers found most of the soldiers shot and dead in the bottom of a nearby gorge.
So although they came as enemies they were way better than the Germans, the Bulgarians or the Turks that came before them. Thats one of the reasons the Greek people even today dont think of them as conquerors, but boys like us that had no choice. RIP.
a movie based on real fact exist, Corelli's mandolin with Nicolas Cage, it is very similar to what your mother experienced! you should watch it, a realistic war movie, not like this Hollywood myth's
Una razza una faccia 🇬🇷 🇮🇹
Thank you.
It's amazing seeing Indy Neidell talk about the Italians surrendering on the ww2 channel and then boom, you have a video about what happened to the soldiers, it's great to be kept in the same period and gives a sort of continuity ( since your previous videos were also on the topic ), so I love it.
Have a nice weekend
The Italian army seems like each unit is it's own different story & temperament than pretty much anyone else.
Hi history hustle . Great video! I would like to mention the following: 1) Corsica (the French Island in the Mediterranean that was occupied in november 1942 by the Italians) and Sardinia were both garrisoned by Italian and German troops. The Germans retreated from both Islands after some clashes with Italian units, leaving the former French Corsica in the hands of the Italians and the French maquisards and the island of Sardinia in the hands of an Italian army corps. In Apulia , the Heel of Italy, the Germans were successfully repulsed by the Italians. Indeed the King and the governement could be shipped from Pescara (a port city in the Adriatic coast near to Rome) to Brindisi (a small port city in the Adriatic coast further South). Brindisi had been cleared of German troops by General Bellomo and his troops. Brindisi was for some time the town were the provisional government of Badoglio was put in place. In the former reign of Yugoslavia some regiments (with small and heavy weapons) joined the Tito partisan forces and fought alongside them till the end of the war. They were to form a new divisional unit known in Italy as ‘Divisione Partigiana Garibaldi’. The Navy successfully set sails from La Spezia and Genoa protected by army units that prevented any German interference, they suffered Germans air attacks but managed to reach Alexandria in Egypt to surrender the warships to the Allied powers. Italian destroyers and cruisers were to escort allied shippings, later on. As far as I know the armed forces of Italy ,at the time the armistice was announced, counted some 3,5 millions men, one million was captured by the Germans . The Germans managed to recruit more or less 200.000 thousand of them to be incorporated in the armed forces of the ‘Repubblica di Salo’, the fascist puppet state created in the North of Italy. Some 800.0000 thousand former military service men refused to cooperate with the Germans, 40.000 of the latter died in German hands before the war ended.
At the time of WWI the kaiser offered Italy Corsica if they would join the Central Powers, but it was not to be.
France got Corsica from the Italians, so Italian occupation probably wasn't too bad.
@@amadeusamwater Corsica is Italian. They speak an Italian dialect.
@@amadeusamwater Technically they received it from the Republic of Genoa, after the Genuese failed to pay the French for their "performance" is pacifying the rebellious island :-)
@@johanvandermeulen9696 not it's not, it's corsican! Furthermore it's not a dialect. It's like saying French is an Italian dialect. They're romane languages
Thanks for the history lesson. The Italians got themselves into a impossible logistic nightmare that they could never hope to sustain. You can't help feeling empathy for the conscripted Italian soldiers caught up in this mess.
My grandfather was in Herzegovina and was left without orders after the 8th of september of 43. He, along with some of his comrades reached Italy with a civilian fishing boat. 8th of september in Italy is a date that simbolizes the greatest national tragedy of our history. A national defeat and, worst of all, a total collapse of the State.
Lucky he got out! Thanks for sharing.
Surprising it would symbolise tragedy when it was a war brought on by a fascist leader
@@ermining1 and wanted by millions of people until he started losing. This is the truth
@@HistoryHustle How about a video about the Italian Civil War (43-45)?
Fascinating story. Up to now I just assumed that all the Italian soldiers occupying other countries surrendered to the Germans. The narrative is much more complicated than that, and I appreciate this well researched presentation.
a movie based on real fact exist, Corelli's mandolin with Nicolas Cage!
My great grandpa was a carabiniere in Rome and revolted with his entire battalion against the Germans helping to evacuate 50k jews and partisans during the occupation of the capital, he was deported afterwards and stayed in mathausen for a year until in 1944 a German became a great friend whith him and made him escape by opening the gates of the camp to him. He then returned to italy and served for the rest of his life the Carabinieri unable though to fulfill his wish of returning to his camp and finding his German friend...
@@Ezekiel903 is that the movie where a small group of italian soldiers are stuck on a greek island and the war just passes them by and they pretty much go native?
@@miketaylor5212 no, that's Mediterraneo. The movie he is talking about is Captain's Corelli Mandolin which is loosely based on Acqui division massacre. When Italy surrendered the Germans asked the Italians to eithers surrender and get deported or fight alongside them. The unit voted to attack the Germans and was soon captured after losing more than 1500 man out of 12k. After that around 6000 men were executed and the rest deported. Of the less rhan 5000 survivors more than 3000 died drowning during the sinkings of ships they were on so virtually the unit was wiped out
My father grew up in Tilburg in a home on the Spoordijk. He said that after the Italian armistice, every day at the same time a train with Italian prisoners passed through Tilburg. Many admired the Italians, because, despite their situation as prisoners of war, they always sang beautifully. People would go to the railway line at the same time each day, just to listen to them.
the Massacre of the Acqui Division. It was one of the largest prisoners of war massacres of the war, along with the Katyn massacre
Sad event.
Interesting video but there some misunderstanding around. My late father and his family was living about 30 km south east near Florence and he told me that everyone was shocked hearing Badoglio's infamous speech on the radio that Italy surrendered to the allies altrough everybody knew that was going to happen sooner than later, but he managed to tell the armed forces the to give the oath but to whom (?) many Italians asked themselves. Many Italians including the armed forces DID not celebrate for the simple reason that many of them felt humiliated, ashamed and even angry because Badoglio didn't leave the armed forces "to their devices" but literally abandoned them without any kind of orders. It was absurd because there was over estimated 700,000 troops scattered around with the majority around the Balcanic countries and Greece. Later Badoglio on his memories claimed that he did issued some orders but there are no documents whatsoever to prove it, only when he with the Royal Family escaped with the tail between their legs when they reached Brindisi that he issued some directives. Badoglio should have taken the action to tell the army to go home whenever it was possible and certainly not to leave any guns that would will be used by the partisans against them that promptly happened. In this Badoglio failed badly and actually angered many with only the communist was really happy. After the famous rescue of Mussolini many joined the R.S.I. to continue fighting the allies but unfortunately it took a long while that the Germans could trust them but also the Brits and the US troops didn't trust them much. It is curious that that the Italians fought much better on both sides but with great hatred often. I can't write a book but I'm only writing only some glimpses skipping important issues, I hope I don't bore you guys...
Thanks for sharing your insights with us.
Possa scriverlo in Italiano!...
@@tttyuhbbb9823 va benissimo ma sono bi-lingue per cui nessun problema! 👍👍
I remember everyone who lived through WWII from my village in northern Italy still mocking and despising Badoglio for this, well into the 90s they sung songs against him and the king
@@brainyskeletonofdoom7824 the fact is that he was already despised by the troops already during the 1st WW as he was almost directly responsible for the terrible defeat of Caporetto also because he left his his troops for some days to a safer place without leaving any orders or directives for some days and not even warning his direct superiors in with much great cost of life and immense material loss like cannons. The beauty of this he never had been subjected to court martial and did almost the same thing after the armistice September 1943. A real scumbag.....
Both my grandfathers were in the Italian army at the time of the armistice. One was a captain in Greece, the other a sergeant in Croatia. The one in Greece was repatriated to Italy by the Germans who gave him a lift on a transport plane. The one in Croatia made his way back to Italy safely. They both survived the war without other inconveniences.
Also worth mentioning that after the Italian surrender, Germany annexed several areas of NE Italy: the entire south Tyrol and Trentino region, Friuli and Julian Venice and also the province of Belluno from the Veneto region. Some of these places were given to anti-communist Russian Cossacks as lands for them to settle in. These same Cossacks were later handed back by the British to the tender mercies of the Red Army in 1945.
Great video. An interesting story. 10 years ago i met an italian army officer who spoke greek. His story was that his dad was an italian officer stationed in patra. With the armicide greeks hid him and he survived until the liberation. After the war he moved back to patra were he opened a commercial business. So my friend luigi was raised in patra thats how he learned greek.
Very interesting to read, many thanks for sharing this.
In 2016 I visited the memorial site of the fallen Italian soldiers on the island kefalonia 🙏🏻🇮🇹
Must have been interesting to see!
@@HistoryHustle yes it was based on the movie Captain Corelli's Mandolin. I was on vacation there and I decided to exhibit the site
What’s more complicated than fighting a war? Well turns out it’s not fighting one. An armistice sounds like something that should be so simple, yet turns out to be amazingly complicated. Excellent topic for a video ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
You’ve spoiled us yet again, sir, with a marvelous production ! This one reminds me of the father of one of my high school friends ( and, incidentally, one of the prettiest young ladies one could ever see ) whose Italian father was conscripted, sent to fight in the Soviet Union, witnessed appalling behaviour committed by the Wehrmacht, and ended up as a POW in Central Asia,..a plucky, cheerful, and genial old bloke, it was almost impossible to believe that he’d had such a dreadful time in his youth.
Once again thanks for your kind words. Must have been an incredible story her Italian father had.
Many of those who were sent to Kazakhstan never came back.
Children's all died.
Those more robust barely managed to survive.
Thanks for showing this
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``my Father was a member in the Italian Air Force ( Regia Aeronautica ) , from 1939 to 1943 . Served in Albania , Greece , Ukraine and Russia . In September of 1943 after Italy surrendered to the allies , he became a member of the Italian Partisans from September 1943 to April 1945 . Lucky he survived that nightmare .
Lucky indeed, thanks for sharing this.
``My Political Great Uncle was captured when his unit was disarmed in Northern Italy, he managed to escape before they deported him to Italy, they wounded him, some countrymen hid him and healed him, until he was stronger, he fled so as not to risk but the life of his friends, he throws himself into the mountains and will become a Guerrilla Fighter in a very large Group, operating with them, until May 1945. Greetings
Being an Italian partisan is one of the three activities with the highest casualty rate in WW2. Greetings.
Nice video
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Thanks for mentioning Italian equipment going to the Partisans. The Yugoslav textbooks always downplayed foreign assistance.
The Yugoslav Partisans definitely got assistance, mainly from Britain but seizing Italian equipment required quite a bit of organization and initiative and credit for this should be given to the Partisans
Thinking that the yugoslav partisans murdered so many Italian civilians, it was a shame. Of course our soldiers just wanted to go home, so they do whatever they could to do that. But they never suspected the idea of Tito of killing without mercy so many of us.
The Foibe was full of bodies.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foibe_massacres
@@danielefabbro822 The denial of Italian war crimes was backed up by the Italian state, academic community, and media, re-inventing Italy as only a victim of the German Nazism and the post-war Foibe massacres. Don't forget that the majority of Italians were fascists who sported concentration camps for non Italians in occupied territories on the eastern side of the Adriatic. 12% of non Italian civilians ended up in Italian concentration camps. 9 of my relatives were murdered in Italian concentration camps Molat and Kampor. If it wasn't for the atrocities, ethnic cleansing you did to Croats 1921-1943 there might be a place for the Italian flag in Zadar apart from the one on a ferry to Ancona. Remember that as Italian.
@@TGSSMC I can bring you the interview to the veterans of the war if you need it to "evaluate".
Awesome. Didn't know much about the topic. Being Italian soldier and finding that your are in the wrong place at the very wrong time doesn't feel like much fun.
Among the Wermacht soldiers that took over the Italian army was my grandfather's brother. Living in Pomeranian part of Poland (100km south of Gdańsk) that was incorporated into 3rd Reich, to avoid further repressions they singed Völksliste. Soon after my father's uncle ended up in Greek part of Mediterranean. When he became Allied POW, together with other non native Germans, he got moved to separate camp. The Allies were looking for ex-Wermacht solders, who were ready to switch sides. Later he end up in Polish 2nd Corps, during '44-45 Italian Campaign. From Gustav Line (Monte Cassino), to liberation of Bologna. He got lucky, died last year.
Thanks for sharing this.
Another really interesting video, as usual… Great Job !!!
Many thanks!
Great topic on a subject little known about. Keep up the great work.
Thank you Andrew.
Good job bro
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Lad I have enjoyed your lecture thoroughly.. thank you for producing another brilliant video on the subject of Italian soldiers abroad.🤔👏👍👊
Thanks Fred!
Excellent Video Stephen. Greetings from Buenos Aires.
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Untold story. Fascinating ! Keep on with the great work !
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Great summary! Well presented good video.
Thanks for your reply.
your videos are so good!
Many thanks!
Thankyou, another often overlooked subject. It does seem that the Italian soldiers were pretty much left to their own devices and luck as to what happened to them after the surrender and that most were just glad to get out of the war if they could.
That's where it indeed came down to. Thanks for watching David!
what Badoglio did was a shame, he knew he will left x tausend of men in big trouble, he knew they will be executed or will end in Prison! he could have send some clear orders, as example saying to the troops to join the partisan unit or surrender to the allies, but so they knew nothing, some thought that was agreed with the Germans and it would end well And the US high command worked with the US Mafia, they released Lucky Luciano from prison, because he still had the power to block the entire port of NY, he was still in charge of the Union, to prevent that and to gain information about the axis troops in South Italy, they worked together and after the war many mafioso became major of Italian city's, so they brought back the Mafia to Italy which was nearly extinct trough the fascist! this send Italy for decade in a bloody war with the mafia which is stili ongoing
Great job Stefan.
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Thank you for covering this topic, there is so much need of contents in english on these facts.
For anyone intrested, there are two pleasant movies covering this subject,
Captain Corelli's Mandolin (2001) -- Covering the uprising in Kefalonia
Mediterraneo (1991) -- Covering the life of Italians in Castelorizo
You’re leaving the best part out about Captain Corelli’s Mandolin……it’s a Nic Cage movie!
@@franciscofranco5739 hahahha. I used the word "pleasant" very deliberately :P
indeed, both excellent movies!
Hope to check these movies in the future.
Wow, I was just thinking about this the other day. Thanks.
Thanks for watching!
Allot Thanks (Sir Stefan) for sharing this informative Episode...about Italian Troops Fates in Balkans & French territories During Italian Surrender in September 1943 to Allies ...what a chaotic, Hesitate & Horrible Situation they Suffered
Italian civilians abroad also had problems. Those living in Japan, considered allies, became citizens of an "enemy" state after the Italian armistice. A good reference to this is made in the Fosco Maraini book entitled "Meeting with Japan" He describes being interned after the Italian armistice along with other Italians in a Japanese prison camp. You have made a very well done video! Thanks!
Great video
Thanks Luis!
Very interesting topic!
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Very interesting video. But you forgot about the Italians in China. Just as most European Powers ,by the turn of the XXth century Italy also had a pie of prostrate China, and by 1901 they and put up tent in Tianjin, Beijing's main sea port. They participated in the Boxer Rebellion, the famous 55 days at Pekin. So when Japan started its war of aggression in China initially they were on good terms with the Italians, for they were Axis allies. By the time of the Armistice in Sept 1943 things obviously changed, so the local San Marco garrison was presented with 2 choices: join the Japanese or face internment. Some opted for the former, others for the latter. Yet there was a small group that decided to fight the Japanese, and did so for a scant 24 hours before surrendering to vastly superior forces.
Thanks for sharing this.
Keep up the great work my Dutch History Teacher! 😉
Many thanks LE 👍
Excellent Stefan, once again very informative about a complicated and little covered aspect of the Second World War 🇬🇧✌️❤️
Thanks John.
Watching from time perspective, difficult to think another worst decision by the italian government, than surrender in these circumstances. Italy turned overnight in to a battle camp between two big dogs.
Obrigado, Stefan! 🇧🇷
Thanks again for replying Marcos.
Surely a handful of Italian POWs remained in the USSR, notorious for its international slaves.
Not many came back I understood.
Not like the Germans, they simply murdered over 3 million Russian POW
Mijn favoriete bron voor geschiedenis. Bedankt voor weer een goede video! Keep it up.
Bedankt 👍
Very well presented. Thank you for sharing information not taught in traditional educational settings
Thanks Jack👍
Good video sir
Thank you👍
We need more of these specific videos!
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I did have an Italian neighbour here in Canada who was in the mountaineer brigade from San Giorgio (that is in northwestern Italy). Unfortunately he died suddenly in his house about 10 years ago, I cannot ask him any questions. I do remember him being very proud of his uniform which included a plumed green cap, but I cannot tell you more. He would have been only a young man when Italy surrendered. He obviously survived and later immigrated to Canada. Possibly his war-time service was something he wanted to forget. There was a veterans' association in San Giorgio and they would reunite in the late summer for a one-day gathering, but as most of the veterans are now dead, I wonder if this tradition has continued. Thanks for the interesting edition....Stephan in Canada
Plumed cap would mean he was an Alpino. Mountain troops, among the best Axis forces for mountain warfare. Alpini even protected Axis withdrawal during the Stalingrad retreat.
Your neighbor was an Alpino, and he was right in being proud of it, my grandfather was too, in mountain artillery, he was wounded at an altitude of over 3000m during 1915 in the Alps, he never told me about fighting, rarely the veterans do, but ^^ many stories of snow, rock and ... mules.
i.pinimg.com/originals/61/c7/74/61c774c6d777d488477c7aed3eb5c747.png
@@zibacherzad2844 , Many frozen to death and many died in the Soviets prison camps .
Interesting.... I am italian and i go to school in San Giorgio, incredible that he was from here and ended his Life so far away..
@@mad_maxj65 Giuseppe showed me pictures of San Giorgio....It looked like a beautiful place. Giuseppe tired to work as a travelling salesman after the war. He would tires to sell women's clothes from the back of his car in the small villages of the south. He told me that he had problems understanding the people. Not only was their Italian different from his, but some even spoke a form of Greek. People were so poor at the time that he barely made enough money to cover the cost of fuel and some food. That is why he decided to immigrate to Canada...He hate to depart from his homeland, but he felt that he had little choice at the time....Stephan
That was a great idea from the beggining to think of such a subject... Most people don't bother themselves to know or think about it!
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Thanks for your reply.
Congratulations for this amazing video . My grandpa was an italian officer in yugoslavia during 1943 at the "alpini regiment" , he and his men could go back to italy during september . He never understood the german attitude towards them . He remain the rest of war in internal security tasks in Piamonte , his main worries was that the partisans arrive northern italy before the Allied troops . And also the US troops before the british . Finally he could transfer the city to H.Alexander before the partisans. Also Alexander gave him a "patriot" document because of the care of the city he was in charge . If you want some pictures about it , just text me . Congrats fpr your channel .
I gather that there were Italian soldiers in Japan, at the time of the Italian surrender. They were also taken as prisoners, and treated very badly.
The same for some German in Japan after Germany surrender
I believe Mark Felton has an interesting video on that.
What do you mean “you gather”? You mean you watched the Mark Felton video on that subject?
I come here as much for how pleasant you are to listen to in explaining history as much as the history itself!
Great to read. Thanks for replying.
post-war Italian politics had so many changes in Govt, if the Italian PM sent a letter, by the time it was delivered there would be a different PM .. :P
My grandfather was in the Italian army and immediately joined the Germans upon the Italian surrender and later joined the RSI army. He was not a fascist, let alone a Nazi, but he reckoned he would be better off by being friends with the Germans. It must have worked because everything turned out well for him.
I understand. Thank you for sharing this.
@@HistoryHustle I guess maybe 20% of Italians still had fascist sympathies by the late summer of 1943, no more than that. The rest were either neutral and just tired of the war or supported the allied cause. Hitler's support in Germany was very solid until late in the war.
@@HistoryHustle My grandfather was a conservative nationalist (not a fascist) who did not support Mussolini or Nazi Germany but was also suspicious about the allies. He would have preferred a neutral stance for Italy and vainly supported the new king in the 1946 referendum which brought about the republican system in Italy.
In USSR instead, of the 225.000 Italian soldiers of the ARMIR, just 111.000 made return after the battle of Nikolajievka.
The rest was dead or captured.
But that was nothing. Before the war we Italians had 30.000 civilians in Crimea, especially at Kerch.
Soviets took them and brought in Kazakhstan in gulags. During the travel, all children's died of hypothermia.
Those who returned was just hundreds. Today the current Italian population in Kerch is rising again but it's around 3000 people.
Also our soldiers didn't received mercy. Soviets was used to kill everyone who wasn't an Alpino.
But in many cases they killed also them.
My grandfather fought in Russia, in an mountain artillery unit.
Few years ago Russians found him and his comrades into a mass grave and started to sell his things on eBay. That's how we found him.
We have yet to give him and his brothers a decent funeral. And with this war in Ukraine, I doubt I'll see my grandfather back to home soon.
Probably I have to join the Ukrainian army in the foreign legion in order to get to Russia and take my grandfather bones back.
Amazing video. Will you do a video on Bosnia in WW2?
P.S. And can you do more videos on the history of the Netherlands? Cheers mate
Soon more on the NDH of which Bosnia was part. I did create a video about this already, in case you're interested:
ua-cam.com/video/lpou33h-KrU/v-deo.html
Have you checked the whole playlist about Dutch history?
ua-cam.com/video/IcKwfAom7dU/v-deo.html
@@HistoryHustle Yes, I did watch all of it. Thank you so much for those videos, I was asking about middle ages. Will you make a video on the Bishopric of Utrecht or Duchy of Gueldres? Will you talk about Frisian Freedom?
Interesting!
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And sadly none of them were never tried for the multiple war crimes they committed especially in Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia and Africa
My great grandpa was in the Italian Army from 1939 to 1946.
He first was conscripted into the artillery of the Border Guard (Guardia alla Frontiera or GAF for short) and was stationed in Lybia till november of 1941, later he was sended to Albania in the artillery of the Parma Infatry Division and then captured after the armistice there, he was later send to Stalag 18A and staid there till may 1945, from his service charts he looked to be in an hospital in northen italy as for june 1945 and he looked to be returned home some 2 months later. My compliments for the video as it was better than the last one that had some lackings in my opinion, it would be cool to do a next one on one of the formation that fought in partisan units in these territories (such as the Italia Division and Garibaldi division in Yugoslavia) and maybe one on the italian cobelligerent army
Thanks for sharing this!
There were units who completely switched side in Italy, including , I think, most of their Navy. One source I read years ago reported the Germans believing they were facing US troops because they fought so well.
In Greece as well individuals and some times entire units was joining the Greek resistance
Italy had an incredible navy! Truly one of the best. It’s a pity that Italy has neglected it’s navy and maritime geostrategy in the past few decades, especially since they have such a crucial position in the middle of the Mediterranean!
For Italians in Asia see "Japan vs. Italy" - The Forgotten Pacific War- by Mark Felton. It includes this topic.
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One Grandfather managed to get home. The other faced starvation in a German camp. He said they ate anything to survive.
Thanks for sharing.
My father was a infantry corporal in Yugoslavia and Albania and fought a rear guard action against the advancing Germans was captured and was used to clear bomb damage the Italians where promised they would be repatriated he left from the port of Cattero by boat
On reaching Italy where put on trains en route for concentration camps in Germany [ my uncle had a similar story but he ended up in Mauthausen /Buchenwald] ,he escaped from the train with help from a nun who risked her life to lift the latch to the door of the cattle truck he was in
Jumping off the train and reaching home and had no other option but to become a partisan till the end of the war a truly great person and an honour to say he was my father
What a story! Very interesting to read. Thanks for sharing.
The number of Italian soldiers joining the Greek resistance was so huge that ELAS and EDES organisations was arguing with eachother about the number of Italians joining their ranks 😏
Interesting!
@@HistoryHustle Mikes Theodorakis, in one of his interviews he mentioned that he liked to eat with a group of Italians because they cook better 😁
By the way if you can find a translation of his interviews about ww2 are pyre gold
it's honorable that you made a video about the fate of the Italian soldiers. Other youtube channels still consider their treatment as POW and I got even blocked or censored for trying to tell them.
Thanks for watching 👍
Dont know of anyone that wore italian uniform in ww2 but my grannys eldest brother served in the whermacht as a driver, driving officers around in the car he was 18 years old, during his service he was blown up twice or better to say his car was blown up 2 times and in both times he was the only survivor. It wasnt a volontary service he was just picked up from the street by some soldiers along with some other people, after the war he was sent to a pow camp which he also survived, he was 98 years old whem he died.
My grandfather was a partizan in Istra. After he ended up behind German lines after a small offensive he was kept in secret and saved by an Italian military doctor.
Hi and thanks for the video! Here are some excerpts on the Italian surrender in Yugoslavia from my book
"Sea of Blood: A Military History of the Partisan Movement in Yugoslavia 1941-45" (Helion, 2022, pp. 219-5):
"In Slovenia, the Italian surrender transformed the Communist-led insurgency into a massive
popular uprising; even though volunteers were pouring in from all quarters, the OF decided
to proclaim a general mobilization. The ebullient Kardelj estimated the strength of the NOVJ
at 30,000 men by the end of September 1943. For the first time during the war, weapons were
not an issue, as the Partisans succeeded in disarming bigger or smaller parts of altogether eight
divisions belonging to the V, XI, XXIII, and XXIV ACs."
"The same can be said for the entire operational cycle carried out by the II SS PzC [in Slovenia in late 1943], with two important caveats:
the Germans did succeed in securing the northern Adriatic coastline, and effectively paralyzed
the Istrian branch of the NOVJ for months to come. Still, the autumn operations will best be
remembered for the fact that they produced the single-largest haul of weapons and equipment
of the war, 716 MGs and 12,427 other firearms. Moreover, the Germans captured 84 pieces of
artillery and some 150 motor vehicles by 11 October alone, a vivid example of the impact the
Italian surrender had on their guerrilla foe."
"The Germans sought refuge in the old fortress [of Klis, Croatia] built by Venice as a bulwark against Ottoman invasions. The
siege would last for 16 days, during which the defenders were subjected to daily bombardments
from the guns of the “Bergamo” Division, and reduced to eating their pack animals."
"By the time the first NOVJ units entered Montenegro, the country was in total chaos. Two
German divisions (the 7th SS and 118th JD) were racing towards the coast from the west and
north, paying little attention to what was going on in their rear and flanks. With the chain of
command disintegrating, each Italian unit fended for itself. Two divisions were interned by
their erstwhile allies before they could embark on a sea voyage to Italy, while the remaining
two assumed what might be termed as the posture of armed neutrality, waiting for the right
opportunity to choose a side."
"After a brief halt in Herzegovina, the HQ of the 3rd Assault Division with the 5th
Proletarian Brigade arrived to southwestern Montenegro in late September 1943. The capture
of Grahovo from the hands of the demoralized Chetniks on 5 October allowed the brigade to
establish contact with the “Taurinense” Division. This once-elite formation was on the verge of
disintegration, as its officers and men could not agree on which side to take; individual units were
even refusing to share food with one another. At about the same time, the ubiquitous 118th JD
launched a concentric attack with four infantry battalions against the division and the Partisans
from the direction of Risan and Nikšić. By the 10th, it was all over: more than 7,000 Italians
were captured and hundreds killed, all for the price of about 100 casualties; less than 2,000
members of the “Taurinense” succeeded in escaping across the Nikšić-Grahovo road."
Many thanks for sharing this.
A small garrison of italian soldiers (mainly marine infantry and sailors) in the Italian concessions in China instead refused to surrender to the Japanese.
In Beijing the garrison of the italian radio station of about 100 men mix of army/navy resisted the assaults of about 1000 japanese soldiers (supported by artillery and 15 tanks) for more than 24h. In Tiensin the garrison was larger (about 600 militaries) and resisted for a few days despite their situation being completely hopeless: confined in a block-sized(1 square km) part of a foreign city thousands km from the nearest Italian unit/base and surrounded by japanese army of 6000 men with air support and artillery placed on the other side of the river soon to be reinforced by an additional division. their resistence lasted just one day due to the officers decision to surrender since the concession was full of trapped civilians.
In all quite a futile resistence but put in perspective Singapore, defended by about 100'000 commonwelt troops, with artillery, aircrafts and whatever.. surrendered to a smaller number(36k) of japanese soldiers in only 8 days.
Thanks for sharing.
That was a good video on a little known topic. One thing I was always curious about, which is slightly related to this, is of the Italian prisoners the Soviets took, how many returned home to Italy? I have read most died in Soviet captivity, but I'm not sure if this is true. Any ding dong idea? Take it easy.
Not many came back I understood. Hope to cover more on this in the future.
@@HistoryHustle Thanks. I wonder what the ratio is compared to the Stalingrad prisoners.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_prisoners_of_war_in_the_Soviet_Union
Excellent video again Stefan. I also think a lot of Italians here in the US started restaurants. You'd have to go to New York City to know what I mean. Your way of tackling little known or unknown topics is outstanding. Thanks again. Cheers.
The utter confusion was famously depicted in a famous line in an Italian movie:
(Soldier) “Sir, the Germans sided with the Americans!”
(Officer) “What do you mean, what are you talking about?”
(Soldier) “Sir, because they begun shooting at us!”
Interesting.
I have a friend who’s a 101 years old. He served in the Chetnik Dinara division and fought along side Italian units
Really? He must have seen a lot. What did you tell you about his experiences? And how did he reflect on the war in general?
@@HistoryHustle he led the Chetnik youth brigade. He is the brother of Vojvoda Momčilo Đujić. He turned 102 years old in February. He told me how he hated the Germans but loved the Italians as he said they were humanitarian. He told me that the Chetnik youth brigade was formed from refugee camps under Italian control and would go and fight and then return after battle. I hope to see him in the fall if he’s still around. Was living by himself until last year. His house is full of stuff from historical books to items from Ravna Gora which was the Chetnik veterans organization.
Great video. BZ.
You mentioned thousands were evacuated by the Allies, did any volunteer for Italian Army Service units?
My father was in Venice training as a radio telegraphist - submarines. He was shuffled onto a train to Germany but jumped off and went home in the Italian Alps. His brother was in Yugoslavia and bundled on a train to Germany and had a terrible time in a prison camp. Same as one of my aunts husband (on my mums side). He wouldn't even talk about it. Interestingly one of my dad's cousins was in the french army and spent 5 years as a prisoner of war in Germany. And another cousin was in the Australian army and was stationed in Darwin.
Very interesting to read. Thanks for sharing.
I managed to know an italian soldier that survived Cefalonia when i was young. At the time i really didn't understand how awful war is...
Harsh times indeed.
One Uncle served in Stalingrad with the Germans only to be left behind when they requisitioned all the transport in their haste to exit. He spent years in a terrible Russian gulag, only making his way back to his hometown to be greeted by his wife, who at first did not recognize him. He was a proud Alpino and like most of his "brother-at-arms" ended the war with severe gastrointestinal disorders from malnourishment. They would, at the risk of death, sneak under the barracks and eat potato peelings or other matter out of the trash cans. He had definitely been "tempered" by the war. Always quiet, reserved, and deliberate so as to not offend others.; the experience made him very humble until his death of stomach cancer.
There was also fighting between the italians and japanese in the kantons after the armistisce
True. Mark Felton covered this.
In Yugoslavia ,a full division of alpine troops did not surrender or disband, they fought against the Germans to the end of the war receiving resupply and air support from italian cobelligerant Air force and allied Air forces .
Thanks for sharing.
my grandpa fightet with the Greek partisan's, he visited after the war Greece many times! nevertheless he spoke very bad about Badoglio! he was happy the war was over but not in this way. He passed away in 1998. We don't spoke much about the war, i know from my mother that he was even arrested end 1944 by a Black shirt unit, which continued to fight for the axis, but he was lucky that this was an Italian unit. Don't know what happens after that, ho he came back eccetera! my mother passed away in 2001 and we never spoke much about war!
When Badoglio announced the armistice at the radio broadcast on the 8th September 1943 he said "the italian army has to stop immeduately any activity against the Allies but the italian armed forces will react against any aggression coming from any other part (Germany). So this masterpiece of ambiguity led to the final disaster because there were no clear orders at all.
I've allways wondered how would they react and what they did in the aftermath but i didn't find anyone talking about it and it stayed just a question in my head until i watched this video ofc thanks dutch history teacher
Great to read, thanks.
Tbh I never asked this question myself
Iam sure I will enjoy the video
🥇👍
Lohr looks Luftwaffe. Strange that in the Mediterranean, Luftwaffe generals like Lohr and Kesselring commanded so many land troops.
True. Dont understand that either.
The Italian forces that continued 👌 to support fascism,navy, air force, army, etc.,fought side by side along side their axis brothers in arms until the bitter end.....literally!!
Corruption in the Italian fascist government is nonsense!! It is communist propaganda, totally false.
Neo-fascist speaking?
@@HistoryHustle Vero!!.....Absolutely
@@HistoryHustle ??
En efecto,1 millón de efectivos siguieron luchando junto a Alemania. Y también medio millón de paramilitares,contra los partisanos.
They married the locals . Made wine grew tomatoes and opened mafia branches
🥉rd comment. Lol!
@@HistoryHustle Racist comment.
That's not funny
Add to that, Ice Cream and Pizzas .....!
Sounds like a nice retirement.
A very comprehensive coverage of this subject Stephan and up to your usual high standard. Italy's tragedy, mistrusted by both sides and gone down in history, unfairly as poor soldiers, although study of their war shows this was far from true and given their leadership, equipment and training they performed miracles of suffering and endurance. It is long overdue that a reappreciation of the Italian Armed Forces should appear. A very interesting piece that, even if it makes one person question the long held myths has done a good job. Bravo Stephan !
Many thanks for your reply.
My uncle, General Julio Cesare Gotti fought bravely in North Africa with Germany. He was captured and interrogated by Monty himself. He and his nephew would tell us that the English prison camps were so much more punishing than the Germans. The English wanted vengeance, and most Germans wanted the war to end so they could resume their lives.
Intresting video,but there's no demonstration of italian units fighting along side the germans,France: compagnia sicurezza (regular infantry), reparto della milizia (black-shirts),a bersaglieri coastal defence battalion,the XLII & L Btg da sbarco 'M' (who were at Toulon at the time & later became the famous 1st black-shirts battalion "IX september").Greece: the volunteers legion of Kreta 1,800 men (composed with 1,000 men of the regular Sienna div & 800 men of a black-shirts btg) + other black-shirts battalions. Yugoslavia: an armored squadron & an armored regiment + 8 or so black-shirts legion, Hope it helps !
Thanks for your reply. You just showed me that Italian units fought at the side of the Germans.
The lucky Italian soldiers were those captured by the Allies. Some stayed on in the countries where they were detained such as Australia and Canada and had good post war lives - some even became successful businessmen.
In the 1950's my Aunt had a farm in what was then known as Warmbaths (now Bela Bela) in the old Transvaal province in The Union of South Africa (now the Republic of SA). On her farm she had two former Italian POW's working for her. Bruno and Joseph. I understand that they were given the option to return to Italy after the war, but opted to stay in SA. I often wonder if there are any official records of the number of POW's that remained in SA?
Really enjoyed this video. I am interested in what happened to Italian soldiers after Mussolini was placed back into power in the north of Italy. Did the German's let the Italian POW's from the former Italian army join the new republic armed forces? How many soldiers did Mussolini have under his command after he was put back into power in the north of Italy, and how many of those soldiers served on the eastern front? I think it's a part of history that doesn't get a lot of coverage these days. Thanks for the history lessons.
Thanks for your response.
As far as i know few italians served in the easter front along with the germans after the birth of the so called “Repubblica di Salò” with Mussolini again.
Mussolini became a puppet of the Germans, he couldn’t decide anything. The new italian repubblican army had very few armaments and was mainly ordered to fight the italian partizan, not the Allied on the front, even in Italy.
The Germans were seen generally as invasors, they were very badly seen by the population.
The only italian arm that was very active also during the Repubblica di Salò was the ANR (Aeronautica Nazionale Repubblicana), which tried to defend the northern italian cities from the heavy bombìngs by the Allied.
They had few fighter planes, but of good quality (series 5 fighters, and Me109), the Pilots Made miracles, but the Allied forces at that time were overwhelming
In the 1980s, I had a very good friend who was in a similar situation, but as he described it, it wasn't bad. He had been a pilot in the Fascist airforce. When Italy switched sides, and Germany occupied Northern Italy, he stayed in the South, and fought for the Allies. We joked that, one day he was shooting down Mustangs and Spitfires, the next day, Messerschmitts and Focke-Wulfs. He didn't like the Nazis, or Germans, generally, but never lost his admiration for Mussolini, and said he always wanted to write his autobiography, which he said he'd call, "I Flew for Il Duce.". After the war, he emigrated to the U.S, and became a very successful aeronautical engineer.
When Italy surrendered, Hitler said ...."Execute Order 66 ..."
Operation Achse indeed.
"Captain Corelli's Mandolin" it's a movie that shows what happened to the Italians that where abroad (in Greece)
Wanna check it out.
What about a video about the Italian soldiers who, after Sept. 1943, went on to fight with the Allies at San Pietro, Monte Cassino, etc. would love to know more about them and where they ultimately ended up.
Hope to cover that one day in the future.
I have met Italian restaurant owners and assisted living staff that were from Croatia and children of Italian soldiers.
Thanks for sharing.
You should've also added the small Asian territories the italians had also.
I believe Mark Felton has an interesting video on that.
my grandfather was in the G.A.F. in the zone of the chaberton fortress and he escaped in switzerland when the armistice happened, my uncle instead was a small kid and saw on the lake of como the capture of the mussolini's column in 1945.