Responding to The Remnant Radio Guys on Word of Faith Teaching
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2022
- Addressing the comments made by Josh Lewis and Michael Rowntree regarding Word of Faith theology. The discernment crowd theological
echo chamber apparently trapped these two, so I had to clear up their misconceptions.
My video on The God Kind of Faith (The Faith of God) - • The God-Kind of Faith:...
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Rod, as always you do great work. The fact that you are able answer these misconceptions and lies is a blessing to all of us. That you've stepped out to correct these brothers and to encourage us (World of Faith) believers. Thank you! You're a blessing to the Body of Christ.
Rod, this has to be one of the best videos I think you have ever done regarding the core part of your ministry being an apologist for WOF.
These guys systematically attacked WOF. They quoted all of the attacks on WOF and you'd systematically defended each point in a very complete manner for the time you have. Thank you for what you do.
I do have a request brother. Write a book. Make the title to be whatever you want. But put a book together that would be a systematic defense of WOF.
I think the points made in this video would be a great framework for the book. You could deal with how the Calvinists point of view affects the way people receive WOF and also how certain former New age people refer to the law of Attraction etc versus sowing and reaping.
I can think of nobody better qualified to write this book than you.
He has written a book, ‘Defending the Faith: Word of Faith Apologetics’. I grabbed it for my Kindle. It’s a solid, concise read, I’m sure you’d like it.
@@02122_ I really wish he'd make it available in hard copy. It's free and fairly easy to do with KDP. Just some formatting and upload.
Sometimes I think WoF critics are all reading from the same wiki page. I've often wondered how many hours of teaching they've sat under. Because the core of the message so many of these guys get wrong.
As for the Apostles being poor and how we as Christians today are supposed to live, I like Kenneth Hagins view. We should all have a full supply. A full supply. Whatever that means for you. "Rich" is incredibly subjective, and as people in the west we have a warped view of it. A very warped view for sure. I'm not sure what we would call "Prosperity" would be the same thing a first century Christian would call it. I don't think God intended for every Christian to be a billionaire with a private jet. No, a full supply.
Love your videos! Keep doing what you do please!!
Didn’t read all the comments so, someone may have pointed this out but this guy on here was talking about Kenneth Copeland not Kenneth Haggan. Don’t know if that changes some of the things you were talking about.
If you're referring to the guys in the video, they mentioned both - Hagin on the faith of God and Copeland on the imago dei, so no it doesn't change anything.
Thanks! Not only for the much needed response to Remnant, but also the example of examining your own motives first. Nothing but respect for you, sir!
Great explanation of the WOF.
Often I wish that it was just called FIW(Faith In the Word) "movement".
Be blessed 🙌
I used to value their podcast but saw the hypocrisy in how they endorsed Calvinism and they were harder on other views they classifed as unbiblical. Calvinism is a cult but yet they don't critique it like WOF. I am not WOF. I just think all groups should be viewed in light of scripture and they don't do that. I am considering unsubscribing from their channel.
Only one is Calvanist. Other two are Armenian. They interview and dissect each, letting the viewer the decise
Wow! Such great stuff, Rod! 😉👍
It's rare that I hear things that I've never considered before or noticed in Scripture. 💯🤔
What a refreshing watch. I really enjoyed this. Keep up the great work! 👑
Solid as always brother. Those guys really need to do they’re homework. Comparing Faith to the force in Star Wars? I’ve been in some wild services, but never seen or heard such nonsense in 30+ years of church attendance and service.
Someone made a comparison between faith and star wars and that is your worse nonsense in 30+ years? uuhh - ok.
Great content, as always!
As I said in the premiere chat, it's quite sad that they are willing to give Mike Bickle/IHOP, Dr. Randy Clark and Bethel the benefit of the doubt and clear up misconceptions about their movements (when not outright defending them), all of them as controversial (and, in some cases, even more) as WoF, and not do the same for WoF...
This was painful to watch, and I can tell it was not something you enjoyed producing. I am so stunned at their sense of absolute certainty (common with WOF slanderers), and it comes across as pride. You hit the nail on the head when you said, "They react to their perceptions, rather than basing their comments on actual research." Why in the world does it never dawn on these guys to approach the people in question, and with an open mind ask them what they actually believe?
UA-cam has exalted some very questionable "authorities." As one of the best apologists on the platform said, "The state of Appallogetics is appalling!"
It was painful for me. As I said I considered those guys straight shooters. They always seemed so gracious to people who hold to controversial views like annihilation, infant baptism ... etc. Josh watched a few of my videos and seemed open to discussion. Maybe I offended him with my comments on Calvinism as he leans toward the Reformed view. At any rate, this was a real eye opener for me. You would think at my age I wouldn't be so trusting, but sometimes if I'm not careful I can be fooled just like anybody else.
12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you. 13And in keeping with what is written: “I believed, therefore I have spoken,” we who have the same spirit of faith also believe and therefore speak,
Of everything they teach and explain on RR, this is one of the main things I disagree with and it's sad. Kinda their fault, kinda not, because they tried at one point to get a WOF guy on there, but he just ended up being an onlooker who never was actually a part of rhema or anything. So he had very vague knowledge of the core message.
I know you've previously said you'd gladly go on their show and talk with them, I just really wish they'd take you up on it.
Maybe a good way to get your foot in the door would be to offer to talk about the book "Midas Touch" by Hagin, I am sure you're familiar with this book of corrections to the movement that many don't even realize was ever written!
Not interested at this point.
@@JewandGreek and I completely respect that. They have pretty much shown they don't want an honest discourse on this WOF topic which is sad.
I really appreciate your UA-cam channel and this video. Amen. Your rebuttals are always gracious. I really see the "Be Attitudes, " in your responses.
That was sad they did not contact you. It would be awesome if there could be some dialogue.
Word of faith teaching gave me the armor of God without the word we have no armor. Those who miss use the word of faith being only about money have never really looked into the teaching it saved my sanity and my life. It taught me God's word is true and I can depend on it.We need this as a firm foundation.
Amen !!
Hey! My name is Leah, Chris Harrison's little sister. He's the one who shows your videos. Good stuff!
Pastor Chris is an Amazing man of God. I met him years ago in India and I still follow his work and Ministry. God is really Using all of You Sister Leah. God bless you all..
Thank you Rod! Good clarification to address wrong theology from those who casually make comments not based on the truth of scripture.
Look forward to it. I think the needed rebuttal is the silly idea that word of faith originated in New Thought.
At time 23:33: "I do consider myself as leading authority on the word of faith movement on UA-cam." --- did you really have to add this one in?
The apostle Paul had to defend his ministry. The apostle Paul pretty much said I know what I'm talking about because...
There's nobody else out there doing what Rod does. It's really not boastful at all
@@blevans3Paul's authority as an apostle came through a vision by the Holy Spirit and became part of the scriptures --- but even Paul did not make an actual claim of being the leading authority on Christianity. Your comparison is not a valid one. Anyways, it was not my intent to prolong debate on this one and I get the point you are trying to make.
It's sad that these young guys haven't done thier own research. It does appear that they are submitting to elder statesmen in the anti word of faith movement.
I enjoy the remnant radio guys. They are very good on a lot of subjects and I love how they have different people come from different perspectives within the Christian faith. I also am glad they are believers in the gifts of the spirit for today and practice them. I do not like how they criticize those of us that are baptized in some faith. They are third waivers basically. People like that will have healings when the gifts of the spirit come into manifestation, the only problem with some of that is that they tend to be lopsided, in that, they are good at getting people healed when they are moving in the gifts, but they do not teach how to receive healing as well as how to keep it through the knowledge of God‘s word. What they have is great, but we also have substantial things to bring to the table. Like in the other, the face movement has had its excess, but we certainly have things to bring to the table especially those of us who are fairly moderate or classical word of faith so to speak. I would love for you to send them this link and for them to invite you on the show to discuss these things. They had a man on named Dr. Paul King to discuss faith theology. While there may be a couple of points that I did not quite agree, I thought that was a great show.
I'm not interested in going on their show. I don't trust them and I don't want to give people the impression that I do.
I still find Remnant Radio a good resource and watch quite often, however I get the impression they lump every word of faith teacher together. They seem to spout of the same stuff about E.W. Kenyan that I have heard. You actually helped me on this and shed light on the E.W. Kenyon issue. I do agree with a lot of what I have personally heard from Hagin, other things I differ. An episode that remnant radio did back in February with Paul King actually was pretty good. It was titled " Word of Faith Vs Men of Faith: Alternatives to WOF Doctrine From Christian History With Paul King". Not sure if you saw that one but it was interesting because we see Spurgeon taking particular scriptures and claiming them for himself. Hopefully Remnant could have you on an episode or vice versa to bring clarity to this. Love you brother. Have a good weekend.
I did see that episode and I like Dr King. I actually met him a couple of years ago here in Tulsa and he's a nice guy. But he has never really been a part of the movement like I have. His background is in the Christian Missionary Alliance, which was founded by A. B. Simpson, one of the main faith cure guys in the late 19th century. A lot of their teaching was absorbed into the Pentecostal movement and the word of faith movement.
I have no problems with Christian wealth in spite of the "eye of the needle" analogy in 3/4 of the gospels. In God, all things are possible. My issue is with the exploitation of the elderly and poor in obtaining riches and certainly if the church is to support those in full time ministry, it does not mean that they should be paying for rolls royces and 3 houses and private jets.
And that is my issue with the WOF/prosperity gospel movement also. Rod Parsley visited Grand Bahama in 1996 or thereabouts and is alleged to have made $70k in two nights. Today, Grand Bahama is in a state of depression similar to the US Great Depression in the 30s. Moreover, the resort he preached at closed its doors permanently in 2004 after being destroyed by Hurricanes Francis and Jeanne. I am not blaming Parsley or his Faith message. What I am saying is that Faith theology, which permeated the church here due to TBN, has failed Grand Bahama in the worst possible way. It simply doesn't work
@@kevinevans8892 There is certainly overlap between WOF movement and prosperity but I didn't understand them to be the same. Maybe they are. I'm not a supporter of any man-made systems theology.
@@shadowmist1246 I am not going to question Kenneth Hagin's salvation or call him a false teacher. I believe that WOF adherents are within the Body of Christ like evangelical Reformed and non-Reformed believers. However, Hagin wrote the following in How God Taught Me Prosperity, which I believe proves that Jesus never appeared to him as he claimed throughout his lengthy ministry:
He replied, “You claim to be a stickler for the Word. In the 23rd Psalm that you quote so many times, it says, “The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not WANT’ [v. 1]. “It says in the 34th Psalm, ‘The young lions do lack, and suffer hunger: but they that seek the Lord shall not WANT any good thing’ [v. 10]. “Claim whatever you need or want. Say, ‘Satan, take your hands off my finances.’ Then say, ‘Go, ministering spirits, and cause the money to come.’ ”
Based on what Hagin claimed Jesus told him in person, the word "want" in Psalm 23 is the same word we use today. For example, I WANT a new car or house. However, the Hebrew word for WANT in Psalm 23 is hafatz, which is translated LACK. The NIV gives the correct translation. This proves that the "Jesus" who was lecturing Hagin was twisting the true meaning of Psalm 23. Hagin claims that Jesus appeared to him in multiple occasions. We can test those alleged subjective experiences through the Bible -- God's objective revelation. I have asked WOF adherents about this matter and have yet to get a satisfactory response. It seems they prefer to defend Hagin more than the Bible.
@@kevinevans8892 If Hagin said that then it would not be teaching consistent with God's word. So much of the scriptures is wrongfully divided because of reading them through the lenses of one's own system theology. Certainly most everyone will agree with that statement so long as it's not their own systems theology. (or movement; or denomination; and so forth).
Love it Brother Rod, Be blessed!
What is even this and what have it to do with Jesus Christ ?
Deception is very real … JMac is a great example
Excellent response. Thank you for doing it!
I love you Brother Rod, bit this video has more ads than a remnant radio episode
Sorry about that. I don't know how it happened but it was set to show five ads. I set it to two.
@@JewandGreek 😃 it's all well and good, I'm only being light hearted. Have a lot of respect for you. We appreciate your wit and wisdom!
Can you do one of these videos on the smart Christian?
wow! amen! fantastic response... i almost floated during the first half of the video 😁... well stated, as always... 💚☝👍
I asked you about this at the time and you said you stopped subscribing to them. It saddened me at the time as it was so obviously strawmanning over and over. But we all have our theological ditches. I do not sub to them anymore either but still appreciate that they fight for the gifts are for today. Blessings, Rod! Christian Rebel
I hate systems theology - whether it be calvinism, word of faith, arminianism, pentecostalism, and so forth. It puts people in man-made boxes that they usually use as a lens to interpret the scriptures and also pits systems vs systems usually at the expense of what should unite Christians: salvation through Christ.
@@shadowmist1246 amen! Sadly, RR promotes themselves as breaking free of that but rather than focusing on what scripture says, they try to break or prop up theological systems. Totally with you on that!
Thank you for your careful and honest treatment of these subjects. So many would benefit if they could hear your rebuttals.
Great video thank you brother!
I don’t rail against the charismatic or word of faith movement I just disagree with y’all. It’s interesting how much division there is between groups, maybe it’s the enemy at work. Dividing the brethren. Who no knows. One day we will find out.
God bless and thank you Lord Jesus for this day, I’m grateful and thankful for all
I'm fine with people disagreeing with me. That's inevitable. What I'm not okay with is when people spread misinformation and distort what I believe and teach. That shouldn't happen with Christians.
Great video... anything can be misrepresented, misunderstood, and misused .... by both intent and error.
My new T-shirt...
HEY... DON'T THROW OUT THAT BATHWATER....
THERE'S A BABY IN IT!
I knew Kenneth Hagin and consider him a very precious, true father of faith! Beside the Holy Spirit’s teachings, Kenneth Hagin’s teachings has shown me vital keys, and taught me (continue) deep eternal things. The “movement” went off the rails for a while, but JESUS IS LORD-not a movement. Thanks for honoring him-he deserves it. You held this to account without slander, sarcasm, or undermining, which is so refreshing in His Body today. We must bring Truth but it must be in love. This is true maturity. We must remember what Ronald Reagan said to Mondale! We hold to account in love, cover, and grant great grace, for we’re all growing.💝
Also, may in the WOF stream know that Simmons is a preterist and the Passion translation in many place buchers scriptues. How did you become a spokesman for some of the bad practices in the Charismatic movement. You should read PJ Hanleys book They call themselves apostles. He is a Charismatic teacher out of Texas who was invloved in Toronto.
Brian Simmons is not a preterist. There's a different Brian Simmons who teaches preterism, but it's not TPT guy. Your research is typical of discernment hacks.
Doesn't Hebrews 12:3 literally say by faith we understand which you posted
Hebrews 11:3
Didn’t AOG label him as an heretic?
I don't think so. In 1980 they issued a position paper where they addressed the extremism of what they referred to as the positive confession movement, but I don't think they ever mentioned him by name.
@@JewandGreek oh ok thanks for responding.
Your description is very misleading. Remnant Radio is categorically unsupportive of word of faith teaching.
How is my description misleading?
Let's talk about the prosperiy Gospel framework.
So John MacArthur is a Godly millionaire, and Word of Faith, Charismatic Pastors are nefarious?
We are in a propaganda Storm that is sweeping young and old alike.
By continuing to speak the same lies over and over some of the garbage sticks.
Honestly why do Calvinest even care about other believers?
Are they concerned the unconditional election will be corrupted?
By their words they reveal that they must speak for God, or God may not see somthing.
There is something dark about Calvinism, it is a cult.
Does that include Dr. Wayne Grudem, J.I. Packer, Lorraine Boettner, Spurgeon, Johnathan Edwards and George Whitfield? You are making sweeping generalizations based on a small group of individuals within the John MacArthur clique. They do not speak for the Reformed Camp.
I noticed that at about the 12:20 mark or so you mention the story about the Apostle John going to a bath-house or as you call it a spa. And you make the point that no poor person would belong to a spa. Well, I do have a degree in History and have read and studied Rome especially from about 100 BC to the end of the western empire 476. Plus, the eastern empire aka the Byzantine empire until the fall of Constantinople in May of 1453. If memory serves it was May 29 which was on a Thursday that year.
While what I have to say in this post may seem like a minor point, yet as a student of history there are so many ministers, I have heard over the years mangle Roman history. But you are presenting your point of view as fact about the Apostle John yet as far as I know there is no fact to back up your assertion.
My point is that in nearly every city or town of any size the Romans were famous for building public baths open to all. It was common practice throughout the empire. In fact, taking baths in the Roman mind made them feel superior to the barbarians. You make the mistake of trying to use modern understanding and applying it to ancient times.
The concept of have exclusive memberships to visit a bath or as you say a spa, would be a foreign concept to the ancient Romans. It is quite a leap in logic to then suggest that the Apostle John had to be rich in order to go to as you say, “a spa”. It defies logic of everything I know about the Romans and their baths because they were free and a part of normal life in the empire!
What is your source for that information that the Apostle John belonged to private membership spa when as far as I know nothing like that existed as there was baths open to all and free. Perhaps, there were some open only to the military or rich but again the Romans still provided free baths for all. So, if you have contrary information please share. I am always open to learn.
It is thought that the original structure was three-storied, but the top two floors have collapsed. The bathrooms have two entrances, one from Curetes Street, which is the main entrance, and the other from the side street. Upon entering the first seen is the locker room (apodyterium) with ten cabins, then the cold room (cold plunge), with its pool, the warm room (tepidarium) to relax and finally the hot room (caldarium), with a very developed system of heating. The second floor had to be used for massages and scrubs.
They were used not only for hygiene but also to socialize and discuss the most important issues in the life of the city. In the Byzantine period remained the custom of the Roman baths and with the arrival of the Ottomans they reached their maximum expression and gained a new dimension.
www.viaurbis.com/en/roman-baths-at-ephesus/
Though I don't ascribe to Kenneth Copeland's teachings. He should be quoted honestly.
They want to be in the in crowd which is to throw WOF under the bus.
I personally don't agree with remnant on several issues but if they are calling someone's doctrine out when it comes to charismatic teachings, you know the person they're calling out is in serious error
The Remnant Radio Guys are usually very balanced when it comes to Charismatic topics. Most if not all the hosts are Charismatics. They really seem to have a love for Jesus and a love of the truth. Haven't heard the broadcast on Word Of Faith
ua-cam.com/video/FbGFT-Jjru0/v-deo.html
Sounded good to me.
Will be interesting to hear Rod's take on it.
They love to make a caricature of the word of Faith
Thought these guys are reformed???
@@omnitheus5442 Josh leans reformed. He goes to Matt Chandler's Church and Chandler is a reformed charismatic.
@@JewandGreek I know you haven't been watching RR lately, but now Josh says he actually goes to an Anglican church?! I don't really know what to make of that other than it's interesting.
You mentioned that the Remnant Radio guys referenced Copeland's "little gods" doctrine, which he hasn't taught in eons. That seems to be your defense of Copeland. I think Copeland can help his cause by publicly renouncing what he uttered in the past. Saying that he hasn't taught this troubling doctrine in years is hardly a sound defense. Take for example Joseph Tkach Jr of the former Worldwide Church of God who wrote Transformed by Truth, which renounced Herbert W. Armstrong's heretical doctrines. The WCG is now an evangelical Christian denomination. The elders made it a point to publicly repudiate their past heretical theology and have embraced the central tenets of historic Christianity. Copeland might not have taught "I AM" too in years. But that doesn't mean he no longer believes in it. He just might be silent on the matter due to the backlash. Who knows? He can help his cause by following the example of Tkach.
I'm not defending Copeland as much as I'm contrasting what he said with what Kenneth Hagin said. Since I know that Kenneth Hagin didn't believe or teach that we are ontologically the same as God, I'm assuming that Copeland didn't either and was just being reckless with his verbiage. But without any clarification from him it's hard to say. I agree it would be nice for him to address some of these problems he's created over the years, but I don't have any clout with him at the moment.
When they can do the works of T L Osborne, perhaps they'll be worth a listen. Until then, perhaps not.
That man was a beast! Even as a kid, I loved him. I never really knew why. I think he just had a good spirit about him that I could feel even as a kid.
God is the object of faith. He is faithful. He is all powerful. He does as He pleases. Only He declares, and only God has the power to speak things into existence. He is all knowing. He doesn’t need faith. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. He gives us our measure of faith. Without faith (in Him), it is impossible to please God.
God and His word are one according to John 1:1. So faith in God is also faith in his word. We don't see God but we can read his word, and his word is the basis for faith. And as I said in the video, if his word is the object of faith then why wouldn't God have faith? Conventional thinking has a Supreme Being as the object of faith, but biblical thinking has the word of God as the object of faith. Nobody is making the claim that Believers have _ex nihilo_ creative power at their disposal, but we do have the ability to speak God's word and see things change according to Mark 11:23,24.
Have faith in God.
Jesus said, You believe in God, believe also in me.
Heb 1:3 says that Jesus upholds all things by the word of his power. There is power in the word of God, God has power.
That being said, I see no need for God to have faith.
So the question becomes, does God have faith in himself?
As I explained in the video the object of faith is God's word, and God has faith in his words. (Isaiah 55:10,11)
The Remnant Radio think too highly of themselves.
It seems they try to be faithful usually but pride does seem to be an issue a few times. But I am sure we would all fail occasionally here
@@bytesizedbible sure we all fall at times. That said, them no wanting to talk with Rod about their discrepancies is telling.
@@ryankittle3431 agreed. I have yet to see a video where they admit they got it wrong. But I do not watch all their videos.
@@ryankittle3431 Its the flat earth syndrome. I extended 156 invitations to flat earthers to come on my channel and discuss that issue. Not a single one would do it. I've never met an issue to date I have a reason to avoid discussion of. I estimate the problem here is that their Philosophy is tied too closely to their pocketbook. They simply don't want to lose revenue. Thats why I was so harsh with guys like Rob Skiba some years before he passed away. It was just a way he tried to make a living and he wasn't going to do anything that could possibly mess it up. I think thats why the one guy defended MacArthur's wealth. We were seeing a bit of his own personal motives and ambitions come through. Having someone on like Rod would not only present a cogent challenge but might steal away some of his own 'cred' moving forward with his followers. Once you look dumb its hard to recover. That is unless, your last name is BlDEN. But basically, I agree. Its a manifestation of Pride.
Paul was a citizen of Rome,he was educated at the highest seminary known to Jews of that time.
People build their own constructs in their minds.
Without Faith it is impossible to please God,they have cherry picked God's Word.
Why didn't he begin his comment with Hebrews 11 verse 1.
Verse one is the foundation of what Faith is,if a person can not grasp verse one,then it is pointless to try to expound on the rest of the text.
BoOm
I am so glad I never heard of those guys. I would need a whole bunch of spiritual flushing
I’m Pentecostal. I graduated from Christ for the nations in the 90’s. I agree with most of your statements, but I have a few points of contention.
Bath houses were not spas. When I was visiting a certain North African nation, I visited a “bath house”. The locals told me not to go because it was not sanitary. Let me assure you this was not something for wealthy people.
What was life like in the western world 150 years ago?
1. Life expectancy - In 1850, the life expectancy in the USA and Western Europe was less than 40 years. The child mortality rate was 20% at this time. Basically, you had a 1/5 chance of not making it to your first birthday.
2. Child labor - Child labor was common in the 1800's. By 1810, over 2 million school age children were working 50-70 hours a week in the USA. They often worked in harsh conditions such as coal mines. One factory had a barbed wire fence to prevent them from escaping. Can you imagine sending your 7 year old son to work hard labor 12 hours a day?
3. Sanitation - There was little or no sanitation in urban areas in the mid 1800's. If you have travelled to a third world country, you know the unforgettable stench of open sewage.
4. Literacy - In the early 1800's less than half of Europeans could read. Can you imagine not being able to read the bible?
5. Clothing - Frank Bartleman, one of my favorite preachers from the early 1900's, gives a glimpse in his biography of how valuable a set of clothes was or a pair of shoes was in his day. He was so overjoyed when he was given old clothing that I was brought to tears with conviction. Children often wore adult clothing that was just sized down for them. When I served as a missionary in India, I had to wash my clothes in a bucket. Remembering that makes me thankful to own a washing machine.
I didn't mention heating, lighting, health care, travel, women's rights, employee rights, sod homes, farm life, slavery, and a host of other aspects of that era. Not to mention the fact that there are many nations in the world today where people still lack many things we take for granted.
We have much to be thankful for. We are so blessed that it is difficult to avoid taking the luxuries we have for granted.
Biblical prosperity is primarily having plenty of food to eat. The people in Jesus day were not concerned with choosing which outfit to wear or what to cook, but rather they were concerned if they would have any food to eat or any clothing to wear. I’m a capitalist as well. I don’t have a problem with owning a large home. One day I will build a five bedroom house and own enough property to have goats and chickens.
and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak.
Matt 24:18
Why on earth would you risk death to go back for a cloak when Jerusalem is being destroyed?
Because we have no understanding of how valuable a cloak was in that era. I think they valued a cloak as much as Americans value a new car. Maybe more.
He might have embellished a little. I won't defend another man-made systems theology (this one being called WOF movement) but his point about not all of the disciples were poor is valid.
_It is thought that the original structure was three-storied, but the top two floors have collapsed. The bathrooms have two entrances, one from Curetes Street, which is the main entrance, and the other from the side street. Upon entering the first seen is the locker room (apodyterium) with ten cabins, then the cold room (cold plunge), with its pool, the warm room (tepidarium) to relax and finally the hot room (caldarium), with a very developed system of heating. The second floor had to be used for massages and scrubs._
_They were used not only for hygiene but also to socialize and discuss the most important issues in the life of the city. In the Byzantine period remained the custom of the Roman baths and with the arrival of the Ottomans they reached their maximum expression and gained a new dimension._
www.viaurbis.com/en/roman-baths-at-ephesus/
Thank you Rod for another thoughtful video. Your channel is helping me to believe for salvation for my children. Thank you very much. You have encouraged me.
They said Kenneth Copeland not Kenneth Hagin. But they still are a bunch of liars.
God is the Yoda of the universe 6:53
Hey man I think you should start an academy where u raise younger word of faith apologetics.
By God's Grace we would support you.
I got saved by a "word of faith" teacher Andrew wommack. He seems pretty balanced to me but these critics have been shaking my faith.
I personally think the basis of Christianity is faith in God
That's that's awesome. I'm a Charis grad. Andrew is the real deal. He has a great understanding of the balance of Grace and Faith
If you watch this video and can’t come to the conclusion these two guys are…never mind lol
Awesome
Please don't relent!!
Rod these guys just keep insulting word of faith, they are only dividing the body, how can we keep the body intact when part of the body belief it's their duty to humiliate the other
WOF has too much New Age mixture for me. Any new ideas and theology I hold in high scrutiny.
No shade to those who do, just not for me
So what new age mixture does Word of Faith have?
@@JewandGreek "Name it and Claim it" -"Manifest" for starters
"Little god theology"
There's quite a few eerily similarities. There's a few born again X New Agers debunk the WOF movement due to mixture in the theology
Look into it brother 🙏
RR may have mischaracterized other people's views but in fairness, the extremes of the WOF movement are out their prominently displayed with large numbers of followers.
Agreed but would it be OK to present the fringe of any movement as the norm? It would be OK to correct them but not say they are what the movement believes at its core.
@@bytesizedbible No it is not good to present the fringe as the norm. However, what is fringe may be debatable and Rod did admit Kenneth Copeland's poor choice of words. Personally, and I would consider "flying in a tube of demons" to justify a private jet as someone in at least fringe territory. But your point is well taken as people like Justin Peters like to pick on the low hanging fruit to condemn a much larger group.
@@shadowmist1246 the problem I have with KK and such is that they seem to use "poor choice of words" alot. It may not be their intention to make it sound so bad but at some point, we need to say to them to stop trying to get a reaction rather than just using plain language. It seems that we can give some a pass or assume better theology than it is on the surface indeed! So I agree with you on that.
@@bytesizedbible It does seem often with KK. Didn't he also command c'v'id to leave too? How did that work out?
@@bytesizedbible could it be that they completely believe what they are say rather than always using a poor choices of words. You can only use a poor choice of words so much
God does not need faith Rod. We will not need faith either after we're resurrected and in the direct presence of God. The first act of faith is not creation. Faith and understanding are not independant of each other. Faith is the way Christians operate today; it is given to us by God as we yield daily to the promptings of the Holy Spirit - in that eventually, we will eat solid food by becoming accustomed to dicerning the will of God (and doing it). Our faith is also grown when God reveals himself through manifestations of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and through dreams, visions, and miracles, etc.
The faith "in God" vs "of God" is a pointless distinction as faith "of God" only means that: of/in God. It obviously cannot mean the faith that God has; God doesn't need faith; he doesn't even need a little bit of faith.
So...I was in Word of Faith for 35 years. I've been involved with multiple ministers from the Rhema bible training center. I've read Hagin's books, Capps books, taken Copeland's courses etc. But as I said, I WAS in the WOF and have since come out of its teaching of error. I jumped head first into the original languages, Hebrew and Greek, and the history. I consider myself charismatic but now I am balanced with truth. I don't know anything about Remnant Radio, but it just takes a little research to find the truth.
You quote Hebrews 11:3 and Mark 11:22 in this video; albeit out of context. Let's start there:
Hebrews 11:3
"By faith, we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible." NKJ
In order to make your point that God used faith to create, you glazed over the beginning part of the verse. "By faith we believe..." not by faith God created, by faith we believe. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. As the author, He is the originator, the creator of it.
In the original Greek Mark 11:22 does not say have the God kind of faith, it says "Have faith FROM god." As the creator of faith, He gives it to us. "Romans 12:3 "Every man is GIVEN" a measure of faith."
Here's a shocker for you...
"It was Phineas Parkhurst Quimby (1802-1866) who laid the foundations [for the Word Faith movement]. ... It was Quimby's metaphysical teachings that influenced E.W. Kenyon, and it was E.W. Kenyan's teachings and his gleaning from Christian Science that in turn influenced Kenneth Hagin. Today's most prominent Word of Faith teachers draw their inspiration from Kenneth Hagin". Kenyon even acknowledged that the Mind Science cultists could utilize these 'spiritual laws'.
He said: 'Natural man can develop his spirit until it becomes a force in him. We see this in Christian Science, Unity, Spiritualism and other psychological religions' (EW Kenyon - The Hidden Man: An Unveiling of the Subconscious Mind, 1970)" [3: p.64].
"Quimby's studies in mesmerism (hypnosis), spiritism and kindred phenomena ... laid the basis for a new structure in the world of new thought".
"This New England mesmerist, who healed Mary Baker Eddy in 1862 must be credited with the genius of dressing ancient shamanism (witchcraft) in scientific terms to form what he called 'The Science of Christ or Truth', and what he later termed 'Christian Science'. Quimby's influence continues in the many Mind Science churches that now form the International New Thought Alliance" [3: pp.58-59].
The leaders in the WOF movement are aware of these similarities and deny the charge:
'You see, sometimes when I start teaching on this, folks will say it sounds like Christian Science. ... It's not Christian Science. I like what Brother Hagin says, "IT'S CHRISTIAN SENSE".' (Charles Capps, The Tongue - A Creative Force, 1976, p.27)'." [3: pp.58-59].
There is no denying that much of Faith theology is derived directly from metaphysics. Some of the substance and style endemic to the movement, however, can be traced to teachings and practices expressed primarily by certain post-World-War-II faith healers and revivalists operating within Pentecostal circles:
"Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, and Benny Hinn point to T.L. Osborn and William Branham (The heretic) as true men of God who greatly influenced their lives and ministries. Osborn has consistently followed E.W. Kenyon's teachings, and has also said: 'He [referring to God] came down in human flesh, and we call him William Branham' (A Tribute to William Branham),
"...while Branham himself denounced the doctrine of the Trinity as coming directly from the devil (Revelation Chapter Four, audiotape #61-0108).
This can all be supported with documented evidence.
I could go on, but now the question is; what are you going to do with this information? You could just blow it off as most WOFers do, or you can research what I've said and pray that God shows you the truth. My purpose is not to condemn you nor convince you. My purpose is to tell you. What you do from this point forward is on you.
I appreciate your concern. Unfortunately you seem to be misinformed. First, Hebrews 11:3 doesn't say "by faith we believe". It says "by faith we UNDERSTAND". In the Greek the word is _nooumen_ which is translated "think" or "understand", not "believe". As I stated in the video, the acts of faith throughout the chapter are listed in chronological order. By faith this person did this, by faith that person did that ..... the pattern is repeated from verses 3-31. So the "by faith" part is chronological as well as the person who acted in faith, which means that putting "we understand by faith" would be out of chronological order since "we" (the author of Hebrews and the Hebrew believers) weren't around prior to Cain and Abel. God was, however.
As for Mark 11:22, as I stated in the video, the Greek scholar A. T. Robertson stated that the genitive _theou_ doesn't mean "in God" but "the God kind of faith". The use of the objective form or the subjective form is determined by the context. If you're predisposed to believe that God doesn't have faith, you would opt for the objective. But if you believe that God has faith, then you could opt for the subjective which several translators have. I covered this in my video "The God Kind of Faith" that I linked to in the description.
As for Quimby, the theory that Kenyon drew his theology from him was thoroughly debunked by Joe McIntyre in his book "E. W. Kenyon and His Message of Faith: The True Story". Kenyon held to all of the essentials of the faith, and therefore despised New Thought which didn't. He was ordained with the Free Will Baptists. His influences were men like A. J. Gordon, Charles Cullis, A. B. Simpson, and Andrew Murray - all Evangelicals from the Faith Cure movement of the late 19th century. I've covered this in numerous videos. In addition to that, Kenneth Hagin didn't take his theology from Kenyon. He was already teaching on faith, confession, and healing like Kenyon before he ever heard of Kenyon. Hagin and Kenyon had completely different understandings concerning the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Kenyon saw it as a typical Baptist would see it and Hagin saw it as a typical Pentecostal would see it. Kenneth Hagin's theological influences during his formative years of ministry were Pentecostals who also drew from the Faith Cure movement. I've also covered this in several videos. Feel free to browse through them. Blessings.
@@JewandGreek Thank you for your response. I will stand by what I posted.
@@gracebiblechapel9606 I will also stand by what I said. And let me add that I have also covered William Branham's story in one of my more popular videos. He didn't deny the doctrine of the Trinity until he came under the influence of the United Pentecostal Church in the late 1950s. During the earlier period of his ministry that was so impactful he didn't teach. He just preached Jesus and ministered to the sick. So you have to provide some context as to his denial of the Trinity.
"In the original Greek Mark 11:22 does not say have the God kind of faith, it says "Have faith FROM god." *Question?? If we were playing cards at my house, at my table with my deck of cards and I divided the deck among all the players although the hand at any given moment is technically YOURS who's cards would you be playing with? Not yours. You didn't have any when you arrived at my home. You didn't have any until I divided them and dealt them among the players. If its my deck of cards despite the card being the card OF YOUR HAND it came FROM MY DECK of cards. How can something be FROM and NOT be OF? These prepositions prescribe the same kind of action to the Objects that receive it. To be 'OF the Navajo Tribe' is the same as being 'FROM the Navajo Tribe.' Having faith FROM GOD is the same as having faith OF God. There is another problem here. It isn't technically 'FAITH' we receive from God. The reason Jesus uses this phrase here is because Jesus is demonstrating how FAITH you already have is APPLIED. He is NOT teaching them what FAITH IS, HOW it COMES and HOW it is MAINTAINED. He is DEMONSTRATING HOW IT FUNCTIONS once you ALREADY HAVE IT.*
@@JewandGreek And...Billy Graham started off right but then slowly changed his message to the gospel of inclusion and ecumenism. You can explain it away all day. But facts are facts. There are tons of documented evidence. But I didn't post it because your channel or UA-cam has a limit on how much a person is allowed to post. I usually don't get into debates with obsessives, mainly it's because it's like trying to reason with a drunk person. They are usually focused on defending their position or belief rather than having an intelligent discussion. An Intelligent Conversation is not “cram your ideas down the other person's throat”. The whole point of an Intelligent Conversation is to try and see the other person's perspective. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't automatically make you wrong or stupid, or them wrong or stupid. I've seen your view for 35 years, and I feel it is in error. It doesn't make you any less of a brother. I won't be dismissive of your faith. But I question the loyalty to men who preach error. And if that error is yet to be discovered, then fine. Let's discuss.
But okay - Here are some William Branham quotes calling the trinity a work of satan. Taken from"
The Exposition Of The Seven Church Ages - Book by William Marion Branham 1964
The Godhead Explained - 61-0425b audio recording
"Ever since then people have failed to realize that there is just one God with three offices or manifestations. They know there is one God according to Scripture, but they try to make it the fantastic theory that God is like a bunch of grapes; three persons with the same Divinity shared equally by all."
"Jesus Christ is God. The Jehovah of the Old Testament is the Jesus of the New. No matter how hard you try, you can't prove there are THREE Gods. But it also takes a revelation by the Holy Spirit to make you understand the truth that He is One. It takes a revelation to see that the Jehovah of the Old Testament is the Jesus of the New. Satan crept into the church and blinded the people to this truth. And when they were blinded to it, it wasn't long until the Church of Rome stopped baptizing in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and substituted the "titles" of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost - omitting the "Name".
Yet that is exactly what denominational Christianity did - they abandoned the "one" God of Israel in favor of a three-headed monstrosity called "The Holy Trinity". It is anything but "holy". In fact the Bible speaks of "three unclean spirits" like frogs, coming out of the mouth of the Dragon, the Beast and the false prophet (Rev. 16:13). The True Prophet of God to this Endtime Age said that these 'three unclean spirits' is the "three person trinity" teaching which was introduced into the Church in 325 A.D. It is one of the biggest deceptions which the Devil has pushed over on the church since the Serpent persuaded Eve that the fruit of the forbidden tree would make her wise 'like God".
The founding pastor at the church I pastor knew William Branham personally. He will tell you the same thing, if not more. I was part of the Rocky Mountain Faith Ministers organization for a number of years. I knew a lot of well known preachers. Today I would tell them the same thing I'm telling you.
Remnant radio can get a bit riduclious but if even remnant radio is calling you out you are DEFINITELY out of line
Wangrods make fun of other people who think different and preach that their ism saves others…
Jesus saves, isms die over time.
It's clear that people have very poor comprehension of God's Word.
If you can stop presumption,the Spirit will guide you in all truth,using a Star Wars example,shows a blatant disrespect of the lack of comprehension about people that do understand the Word of God.
I tend to rebuke Ministers that do these things,but this young man has not had time to read books of the Bible a hundred times.
So he sees something out of context and reacts without thourly studying.
He has a opportunity to mature,and stop being taken up by discernment ministries that have a clear agenda.
I would suggest he read the book of Galatians, 20 times in order to begin to grasp the power that God has trusted us to teach.
Jesus is our example,multiple times He taught us to say or speak to the circumstances.
He taught far beyond what common man could believe.
Jesus is indeed the mark of the higher prize,our only burden is not to simply believe,but know what He taught is the absolute truth.
I have no idea if the fellow went to heave or not, but the Passion Translation is not worth reading.
These folks don't know what the 'prosperity gospel' is anyway. Sometimes I doubt they've actually read the Bible. I know they have. But how can they simply miss such obvious Scripture?
Faith comes from the Word of God, and there is no other place to get it. If God and his Word are one, then God has faith. You can't get Bible faith from any place or any person besides God. Simple logic.
Mark 11:22 does say 'have faith in God' but there is not any faith besides the faith of God.
I believe and therefore speak. Paul said it. The Psalmist said it. Jesus said we would say it.
Penniless Paul? Hardly. Acts 24:26 He hoped also that money should have been given him of Paul, that he might loose him: wherefore he sent for him the oftener, and communed with him.
LOL. Faith is a force outside of God. Such nonsense. He has no idea.
You gave Excellent on man being in the God class. Spiritual beings. We are children of God. In his image.
He is commenting on the 'Word of Faith' and he hasn't read his books? What a moronic thing to do.
And all the while most of these critics are reformed and hold to the 5 point TULIP heretical doctrines.
What is your issue? He was claiming that a 22 chaapter exists. You use a video to argue against someone and the video clearly shows what is problemaic to your arugement. Why cant you just admit that there are issues with the NAR movement or Apostolic alignement movements and fix them and move on. This remonds me of the Message people who to this day still revere Branhan after 6 decades.
My issue is that he didn't say he was adding a chapter to John. He saw a book entitled John 22. That's not the same thing. There's a Reformed church planting organization called Acts 29, but there are only 28 chapters in Acts. Are they adding to the Bible? Of course not. Everybody understands that they're saying that the work of spreading the gospel continues. It's like golf courses that have a bar called the 19th hole. Brian Simmons was just speculating that the book he saw describes the works done by a generation of believers who believe in the power of God. It's ignorant or maybe dishonest to say that he's claiming that there's another chapter to add to John.
As for the so-called NAR (which doesn't exist as the critics describe it), certainly there are issues with the signs and wonders/apostolic/prophetic movements, just as there are issues with dispensationalism and Calvinism and Lutheranism and Methodism .... etc. Movements are made up of people, and people are flawed - all people. But that doesn't justify spreading lies about what they believe and teach.
what a lie
I do not believe he saw anything from Yahweh !!! And he was on the sid roth show ... and I do mean "show "..And John MacArthur IS a TRUE man of God ..
Well I think is ridiculous to think that God must exercise faith to do anything, one must ask faith in what or the worst who?!!! If anyone has this kind of belief then we are reducing God from his divinity and God head and therefore we fall in to blasphemy, no matter the argument, I'll say you need to reconsider lest you become a heretic
Oh, heaven forbid that they didn't ask YOU, the world's foremost expert on the Word of Faith movement for your opinion. Maybe you should get a TV show like your heretical brethren Copeland, Wommack, Tilton, Meyer, Dollar, Hinn, Roth, etc. so that you can show the world what WOF "truly" is instead of what all your brothers and sisters in the system present to the world. If you are the savior and redeemer of the WOF and the deserved bad rep it has received, you obviously need a bigger platform than UA-cam. The so-called "extremists" dominate your theology to the masses. Isn't it interesting that the most blatant, extremist heretics on television are WOF preachers. You need to get on there and rescue the theology!!
Justin Peters Jonny Mac and some others are not WOF but they are into False doctrine too. Why don't you mention them too 😊
WOF= wisdom of Fools!
Thanks for your insight . Not.
@@paulc7190 You can drink demon piss, and call it 'Gatorade' if you want, but it won't quench your thirst in hell!