Fret buzz can be caused by the bridge!
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- Опубліковано 16 лис 2024
- Sometimes fret buzz is caused by the bridge, not the frets. When a bridge collapses, the middle strings get lower so they start buzzing on the frets. Dan Erlewine and Blake repair a guitar that had a tailpiece cranked down to the body, and the center of the original Tune-O-Matic bridge was sunken. Learn how to replace a Tune-O-Matic bridge, properly slot the saddles, set the radius at the saddles, then tune and intonate.
Download the PDF of Erick Coleman's guide to slotting T.O.M. bridge saddles here:
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ABR-1 Tune-O-Matic Bridge
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Original ABR-1 Tune-O-Matic Bridge
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Deadblow Fretting Hammer
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Gauged Nut Slotting Files
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Radius Gauges Notched, set of 4
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Understring Radius Gauges Standard width, set of 9
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It's nice to see Dan passing on his extensive expertise to the younger generation. Keep it up Mr. Dan!
I thought you said "Dan's passing" for a sec and almost had to deal with my passing from a mini heart attack.
Not sure why but stewmac videos are so calming and make me feel peaceful and they're very informative.
Twoodford on UA-cam has some really good ones, too. His voice is THE BEST! 👍
because we also realize that instead of bringing the Guitar to a Tech, or Luthier, we can do the work ourselves, and save lots of money. That Idea calms me down
@@phallystorm Real talk, I can't believe I used to pay a guy $110 to look at a ruler and turn a screwdriver
They make me angry.
Because they seem small-town and relaxed and calm and patient. Love the old guy.
it is extremely generous of Dan and StewMac to pass along these incredible videos of how we can all work on our guitars. I just want you to know how appreciative I am of you folks taking the time to make these videos and post them for us!
Yes sir I'm a beginner in the art of learning and playing the guitar so I am very appreciative for y'all giving your knowledge for free thanks so much, Matt
I’ll echo this sentiment!!
you can see the old generation with the knowledge and the new generation with the video editing and illustrations work hand in hand perfectly.
great job!
Dan has been THE guitar repair expert my entire life - at least since I put together my first kit guitar 26 years ago. I wish I had 5% of that man's knowledge of stringed instruments.
When filing bridge saddles, I always stick a small piece of blue painters tape over the top of the stop-tailpiece to protect it from scratches and marring.
Dont forget the pickups! Those little metal shavings love a magnetic pickup, and scratch up the covers when cleaning.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I was scared the bridge would be scratched. I use tape when I file anything in the vicinity of that file. Only takes a second to do permanent damage.
@@robertr.9419 Damn 2" ? That is some thick ass paint!
@@robertr.9419 "Luthier"
@@12south31 It depends on the material. I guess most saddles are made of material that isn't magnetic such as brass or zinc which therefore doesn't get stuck in magnets. Titanium is only weakly magnetic so it shouldn't cause problems either. However if you have steel saddles then you should take precaution.
Dan taught generations about guitar and bass set up. We owe so much to him.
I’d rather have a functioning new bridge than a faulty vintage one, no doubt.
Nothing vintage about that guitar. In 1960, they didn't emboss "1960" on the pickguard. That's a "1960 Classic" Les Paul that they made in the USA factory in the early 90s. With a bridge that bends under the weight of string tension. Just another forgettable chapter in the history of awful crap made by Gibson.
elephantcup well said. You can see how many neck repairs on the Internet of Gibsons with so few fenders. And that’s just the neck.
@@rawjaw1881 That's the dumbest comparison you can make though. Even if Fender and Gibson necks broke at the exact same rate you would still see vastly more repairs on Gibson's just due to it almost never being financially worth fixing a bolt on neck instead of just replacing it.
It’s still a valid point. Gibson CHOSE to have permanent necks instead of making it easier to replace with a bolt on neck. It’s their fault for making a lower quality product.
@@sedrickalcantara9588 There's plenty of valid reasons to build set neck instruments of bolt-on. There's pros and cons to both.
Maybe you're right about Gibson quality overall, but saying set necks are inferior to bolt-on just makes you look like a moron.
"Play something that's not chords"
Words of wisdom, sir hahaha
there is no doubt in my mind , this guy knows all the best ways to correct buzz from bridge to fret to tuning machine , and he shows us the best , quickest, most effective ways to do it which is a big plus in my opinion cause the faster you fix it the quicker you can play it . another awesome informative vidio from the best in the business!
just a tip from one guitarist/builder to another, i always put a little masking tape over the pickup poles, just in case any metal filings manage to make it down that far, its just one of those little things that bugs me when you have little bits of metal stuck to your pickups, and i mean, its not really hard to clean the metal off, but hey, a roll of masking tape is cheap, and if you get the good stuff they use for painting, it peels off super easy without leaving any marks on pickups or pick guards plus its just handy to have around in general, great video though!
Glad I came across this channel. Don't need any other with the excellent explanations of the information you guys give. 👍
Nice tip! Keep up with this kind of content, it helps a lot! Antonio, trucker, historian and guitar enthusiast from Brazil.
These how to videos are absolutely life savers!!
You guys are great to watch. It's so relaxing and informative. We really appreciate you sharing your knowledge and I guess your viewers all want to come hang out in your shop.
Did anyone else notice that this Gibson Les Paul had a fretboard radius of 10" according to the Stew-Mac radius guage, which was then used to calibrate the radius of the string notches in the saddle pieces of the new bridge? The standard Gibson fretboard radius is 12" so was this one possibly reshaped to a more-pronounced 10" radius as part of a prior refret, maybe to make it feel more like a Fender neck to its owner? This is actually a thing; some Fender fans don't bond with Gibsons, etc. because the necks feel too flat for them. Presumably the nut would've been replaced to match the fretboard radius If this guitar had the Fenderizing radius mod. But without working on the bridge too you would probably have buzzing middle strings, especially with low action on the E strings. This seems more likely in this case than a less-pronounced saddle radius of the ABR-1 bridge due to 'collapse' deformation under excess string tension. If I found a fretboard radius other than 12" on a Les Paul I would immediately know it had been modified, probably when its frets were replaced. If the bridge in that case is not collapsed, that is an ideal opportunity to replace the middle saddles with the optional higher ones.
Dan Erlewine and crew are AWESOME!!
Well I never! Been living with a fret buzz on the G on my Paul for ages had the frets done, nut checked, the truss rod adjusted and the fret board checked for twist. Never been able to get rid of the buzz. Just checked the bridge on the back of this vid and guess what, it's bowed like a bannanna. Thank you StewMac.
Mine does the same I've just learned to deal with it. Checked the bridge and mine is bowed as well. Already ordered a new one.
poodle559 The main reason they bow is the fact most are made of non aircraft grade aluminum. If you upgrade I recommend you use stainless steel or brass.
@@ridemx1416 Make sure you order one made of stainless steel or brass or it will happen again. Aluminum just can't handle string tension over time, especially the string slots.
@@cybrunel1016 I ordered a stainless one. Thanks though.
I can see pure passion in younger guy!Great promise for tomorrow!
This channel is a goldmine
I recently discovered that this was exactly my problem. I'm glad to finally see a good video about it.
I usually learn something every time I watch your videos, thanks to Dans experience and knowledge and passing it on to the rest of us.
Shouldn't you tape the pickup before filing?
No
I certainly would. Loose fillings + electromagnets = bad.
Hans Landa get over yourself
Truly the answer is no, don't tape it - especially if you're lazy, don't have tape or never heard "better safe than sorry".
@@George_K. tape is for manginas with small wee-wee's
Nice job. A great non-invasive fix that keeps that vintage guitar playing properly and the original parts are there for the hang it on the wall collector who wants everything original.
I have the same problem on a strat, i figured out it was caused by one of the saddles screws not being tight enough.
That's not the same problem at all....
@Fred Wills Yes you are exactly right. I've actually had people complain about the tune-o-matic saying it's a shame they can't adjust individual strings, which just leaves me scratching my head. In my experience it's a pain in the butt to match the fingerboard radius precisely on a fender style guitar. It is possible, obviously, and having an under-string radius helps tremendously. I use a small slip of receipt paper as a guide for me. Get the two E strings where you want them and then lower the other strings into the radius until you can't pass the paper in between. That's my method and it works pretty well. May have to try the string buzz technique as that seems a lot easier but somehow more subjective maybe. lol
Glad to see some new videos from Dan and Co.
You guys are absolutely awesome! This is exactly the kind of tutorial I was looking for to fix my guitar!
Thank you so much, and keep up the great work
So glad we could help!
I learned about wrapping over the stop tail piece to relieve the down pressure on the bridge and which also decreases string tension, increases harmonic character, from pictures of Duane Alman's Les Paul. He wrapped over a few of the low strings, think the low E A and D. Later I saw guys doing this for all of the stings and I asked them why. They told me and it made so much sense to me that I never went back to that punishing behind he bridge down angle that some think is the key to "sustain" or whatever. It's not, and it does tend to collapse the ABR bridge and leads to many other problems as you have shown us.
Another thing I learned in time was not to set my action to low, even if the guitar could do it. This way the strings strings ring out so much better with a little air under them. No fret buzz or any very subtle (or not so subtle) rubbing that robs the guitar of tone and sustain when it is played with vigour.
BTW, you probably know it, but Martin guitars have their legendary tone in part because they are designed not to have very low action. They may be a little harder to play, but that sound! It's really worth the extra effort.
Cheers, Dan.
I don't need to do this on any of my current guitars, yet I was mesmerized and watched the whole thing.
Local-Rigs same. Great info.
I thought I was getting fret buzz after I installed a roller bridge on my Les Paul but it was harmonics generated in the short length of string between the bridge and tailpiece. These roller and tunomatic bridges to some extent are playing harmonics on the string. Notice how Paul Reed Smith bridges have long grooves across the full width of the saddle to properly stop the string vibration passing to the tailpiece-I think it makes a big difference. I made my own brass saddles with a flat top and groove to hold the string across the top and that fixed my weird noises that sounded like buzzing.
I'm learning something every time I come here. This is great.
I just replaced the bridge on an Ibanez Artcore semi hollow. The bridge had collapsed, I originally deepend the grooves on the outer saddles but it was definitely better when I replaced the bridge with a higher quality Gotoh bridge.
00:49: the bridge itself is flat, but the saddles differ in height to match the fretboard radius. If the bridge collapses, however, the middle strings get lower and start buzzing on the frets.
Just taking notes... These guys are great teachers, I'm feeling a lot more confident about how my guitars work.
The 6 saddles in a Nashville or ABR-1 bridge are normally identical. The height difference for the 12 inch radius is created by the recesses for the saddles being moulded to different depths.
great video. you should cover the pickups while filing though. the shavings will stick to the pickups and you can't get them off again.
Nigel Tufnel ....Same tape u use to cover them also makes an excellent shaving removal tool. :)
Brass is not magnetic.
Yeah OK :) they could at least mention that it's OK Not to cover them. If you do fret work it's important
No
Now that's something alot of Musicians don't realize. Fret Buzz can be caused by the bridge if it collapsed.
I agree. Musicians wouldn't realize that. Also chairs can fall over if one leg is removed. Eg, "A pile of oily rags can be ignited by a nonchalantly thrown zippo."
@@leamog They really need to start realizing that.
You just became my hero! Thanks so much for sharing your wisdom
Fine video, but a shame that you skipped-over the part with the spacing at the bridge... Not all may be able to, or want to, do it by eye..
I take that's where the String Spacing Rule comes in handy?
Also, wouldn't it be needed to smoothen out the notches, since they might be a little rough, from the filing?
Thanks for making these videos, they are great!
Cheers.
The string spacing rule is used for positioning of nut slots, not saddles.
Since when did Gibson make Les Pauls with a 10" radius? I was under the impression that all Gibsons were 12"
Great video! But those files are expensive! I only have one bridge to do. Wish Dan still lived in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Was it Herb David Music store? Long time ago. I'm Jamie with the '53 Les Paul. Friend of Terry Crane, who sadly passed away a few years back.
10' inch radius on les paul? wow thats new!
i subscribed cause i like their relationship. and the way the older guy kinda moseys into frame in every video. cracks me up. keep it up
ps. i also love guitars
Excellent Work Bro... And Dan The Man Steps in to Give The Final Approval.. Lol... Awesome Stuff Guys 😃💯💯
Wow!!!
Thanks so much.
I've been having fret buzz. Got a 335. Adjusted the truss rod I don't know how many times, and the neck looks fine. Probably it's my bridge that is the problem. The bridge does look a little bowed.🤔
The young fella with the old pro, great watching this video.
You don't say it, but it is a 90s Les Paul Classic. Absolutely great guitars.
I think they left something out in this video. They should have polished the slots they made in those saddles. If there's any sharp edges, that's where you'll have strings break. I'm surprised they didn't do or mention that. They certainly didn't forget to mention any of the tools they are trying to sell LOL.
I've been enjoying watching Dan Erlewine videos since 1993.
Thaaaats why my LP was buzzing!!! and exactly where it was buzzing in the beginning of the video!!! I've been sooo Neurotic about my frets, thinking it was that, but my bridge is collapsed affffff!!!!
I always throw a little piece of cardboard or paper between the bridge pieces on my bass. Took me a good while to find out that was what was rattling.
Dan i love you, you’re the only boomer i totally respect, you taught me everything i wish you would live forever, thank you for your legacy, it shall go on.
These guys are really good fixing a guitar
Couple years ago that happened on a 2005 Gibson SG Standard I bought used that turned out to be quite buzzy.
The TP was completely screwed down without top wrapping and all the strings were leaning on the back of the Nashville bridge.
The bridge had completely collapsed and no radius left at all.
Had then a look at my 1992 Gibson Les Paul Standard which I realize was starting to suffer a similar fate and that without having the TP screwed down.
Those pot metal bridges are certainly not the best quality.
I ended up ordering Pinnacle machined steel bridges from Philadelphia Luthiers which are probably not gonna suffer the same fate.
I put a Gotoh tuneomatic on my Les Paul Standard. It had a buzz on the high E. The problem was that I had the stop tail piece set low and the string was touching the bridge on the side between the saddle and the stop tail piece. I raised the tail piece so the string didn't touch the bridge and it eliminated the buzz. Thank you,gentlemen, for all your dedication and hard work.
This is exactly why you shouldn't crank the stop tail piece all the way down. I'm well aware that many players do this to top wrap but it's just a bent bridge waiting to happen.
I've had my local luthier measure and put set screws into the tailpiece posts so there is a solid connection all the way down to the bottom of the hole. On the bridge studs, he made new posts from all thread to go to the bottom of the holes. All the sustain without a bent bridge.
What causes the bridge to collapse? Would you recommend purchasing and installing a new bridge vice the shop repair?
Good presentation- thanks.
Gotta love Dane Erlewine. Raise your stop bar folks or top-wrap your strings!
Dan is a true American treasure...
I would recommend putting painters tape on the tail piece and pickups before doing any filing.
Thank you so much for this. Very useful and educative.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I started listening to the Prime Movers recently, Mr Erlewine is extremely cool
how about string angle betweeen the bridge and stoptail?
how about it? I like a really steep break angle so typically after setting string height on the TOM, I usually set my stop bar as low as it can go without the strings hitting the back of the TOM bridge measure up witha feeler gauge on the outside Es. Exact angle isn't important. Lots of players bury their stop bar all the way down supposedly improve tone and sustain. As long as your strings are hitting the back of the bridge I'm OK with it. If your Stop bar is set to high and there's not enough break angle over the saddles, your strings will buzz at the saddles.
@@kevinmonzel thanks for replying, some say if we have steep break angle resulting in higher chance of string break and higher string tension, so i reduce my sg break angle, no side effects tho in my situation
And THATS why I use only the 80's style block and tackle chrome over brass bridges on my tele's - all those caveman ashtray w barrels design picks up wayyyy more random harmonics and buzzing.
Thanks, so much compassion. You must really love the guitars.
Great video once again by StewMac! thanks guys
I really like the old mentor guy!
Saddle Savers in Tusq saved my new Sire T3 Tele for the “sitar” sound from my original Asian one.
Once I get the markings after hitting it with a fret hammer, I use a jewelers small tip screwdriver to notch it deeper. I have a set with various sizes and it works perfectly!
The thumbnail has an obvious typo. "BRIDGE", not "BRDIGE". I will gladly take that guy's job.
This channel has helped me a lot. I'm already subscribed. I've given you a like button. Greeting from Malaysia. 🇲🇾😎
Often times it is the bridge- the saddles. It may be wonky crooked or one of the two adjustment screws are loose, and or the saddles are slightly apart but slightly touching. In the even that the saddles are barely touching, they have a tendency to buzz. Try pushing/ squeezing the saddles together and making sure that the saddles are parallel and not lopsided.
This is another good reason for overwrapping the strings to the tailpiece
Also wrapping around adds some vintage tip
Heck ya! Stewmac, I need every ONE of these vids. So important. Subbed a few vids ago😊
A completely straight is ok when you have a very light touch and don’ t paly with dynamics. Better is a bit off relief since the vibration of the strings is the biggest around the 7th/8th position on the neck, otherwise you will have rattle with when hittimg the strings a bit harder.
Also the action at the 12th fret depends on your playing style. When you are doing lots of bends a higher action makes it easier.
At the nut you can go with even lower action. If i press down at the 3rd fret and push the first there is hardly any space, i hear just a little click and i have no rattle at all.
My fender player started buzzing after I fitted locking tuners, I thought "That's crazy". A couple of strings were buzzing. It was not the tuners...it was a clip on tuner vibrating against the head.
SAME dude! Mine was also a Fender Player Tele and I was freaking out like “why is this buzzing, is my guitar broken??” Nope. My Snark was bobbing up and down against the headstock. That was a relief.😂
I've put cork pads and tape to cushion the buzz of the bridge saddles and screws
For that attachment at 6:18. Mark either side of it with a marker makes things a lot easier then fumbling around
This is a very informative and well put together video. I have an issue with a fairly new guitar were every fret is buzzing. Any tips please to get rid of this? Thanks
I like that Stu Mac gives you an alternative to their product as well as their own👍🏻👍🏻🎸🎸
There's a Gotoh ABR-1 pre-slotted bridge replacement without the spring you can purchase
i have a strat, a squier strat, i set it up with a video on youtube, and it played perfectly, like frets were all leveled no buzz, the action was perfect the way i set it, and then i polished the frets cause bending and vibrato felt like it had friction on it that was making it really annoying to play, so i got steel wool and polished the frets, and it played really good, after that, but after a couple of days i decided to make my tremolo bridge a floating bridge, cause i didnt want the tremolo to only do dive bombs, and after loosening the back screws, i did it perfectly also measuring exactly how much it needed to be lifted off from the body that way its perfectly in tones and semi tones when increasing the tension of the bridge, and i assume that when making the bridge be angled the way it is on the floating bridge, the saddle height, also got lower, but i dont have any fret buzz that is constant, but i feel like in some frets, it plays perfectly but if i move my finger by small increments on that same fret the buzz happens, its usually really close to the fretwire on any fret, and someone told me its natural, but ive played this guitar for a month before, so i know its not normal cause it played perfectly, if anyone knows why this is happening please let me know, cause its weird and it doesnt look like any fretbuzz that ive seen on other guitar making it hard for me to know the cause
Excellent as always...
By any chance do you have a video if a saddle is at full travel and your string is still slightly flat. (In this case on my low E string).
If there was no spring on the saddle screw I could get the extra adjustment travel, but not sure if I can remove it without causing a new problem. I thought of reversing the saddle, but I don't think it will give me enough adjustment. Can springs be removed without problems and is there a video on that procedure?
Note: These are new strings with about 10 days break in period on a LP style guitar. Thanks.
Phil
NYC Area
Thanks for this explanation
I thought you were going to talk about Epiphone bridges and the little sheet metal plate that's under the saddle screws.
im such a nim rod i kept adjusting the saddles flat wondering why the g and d kept buzzing now i know i need a radius fixed the problem thanks
I didn't know bridges bended :o you always learn something new
I thought Gibson Les Paul's had a 12" radius, especially a historic reissue types.
I hate buzz. Thank you for the tips.
The crazy thing is, the idea that the stop bar should be screwed down as low as possible has become so all pervasive that, as far as I know, is how Gibson ship their guitars. Also I think one of the technical tips that StewMac itself posted was that Gibson, at least at one time, would mark the string positions to notch the saddles by shifting them to the right place and then hitting them with a hammer to mark the saddles! That can't do the strings any good and it would seem the wrong thing to do on a bridge that tends to sag anyway.
The other way to mark where slots should be positioned in saddles, is to position the string (not at full tension) so that it passes over the dead center of the pole piece and then mark, with a fine point Sharpie, small lines on the saddle top on each side of the string, as close to the string as possible. Then, file the slot between the marks. No hammering and no damage to new strings or the bridge.
I have no idea how but on a whim i went to look on my guitar because it's a tuneomatic too and it was sunken in too. I was like amazed.... Because i had like my bridge quite high and oddly adjusted soooo.... What i did is not a solution at all was took off the bridge and the saddles on a very flat surface i whacked it straight again, checked it with a straight machinist ruler and it was real straight. Put on the saddles on *right* i may add i made a note where they went and that was like magic. It felt Soo comfortable and good and the middle strings the D and G weren't so low too that they buzzed and the rest the E A and B and were like incredibly high. I really think imma replace it i have light strings on there i think that happened when i did put heavier strings on it because I'm sure the bridge i have is just pot metal.
I have a Suhr-strat. After 2 months of playing, the B-string (buzzes on the 1st fret). I put-a-new set-of-Strings on, and It's Gone? I've already: used a fret rocker, checked intonation, the bridge saddles correspond with the neck Radius??? - Has anybody else experienced this?
@Chris Richardson Thanks - I Appreciate your input. (as you said) it could be the string developing more flex over two months? I do play alot of Santana, Zeppelin & Trower so the B-String . . . get's-it's-share of Bends? Stay Safe brother. oNe LovE from NYC
Wow I've had a les paul for 10 years and I never realized this. Going to check mine right away. i play with 11's too
How'd it turn out?
@@BigCleverName haha I forgot to check.. it looks like a still have a good radius on there
I just got a fender elite. Opened up the box n it played perfect. Action was low. Few hrs later my B string started buzzing. Almost the whole length of the string. Guitar was delivered n was outside for a couple hrs before I got it. It was about high 40s low 50s outside. I figure the guitar settled into room temp. And the string started buzzing. I wonder if the neck I moved? A little help thanks!
Hi guys, my B sounds like a banjo and the buzzing resonates around the bridge. It's a new guitar and the bridge hasn't collapsed. Can it be an improper filing of the saddle slot? What else might it be?
Surprised no mention of break angle at the back of bridge, e.g. strings okay or not okay to touch back of bridge going to tailpiece.
One thing that i always Wonder about. The replacment bridge saddles all have the with the angles up towards the neck, but I have found on several guitars needing to reverse the G string saddle so it can go back further just a bit to get intonation correct. Is this wrong? It has happened on a few LP’s I have that otherwise feel and play great. I just ran out of room in the normal configuration to get it intonated.
I don't think they do the filing part at gibson, just the hammer - or so it was back in the day on my old gibsons. My latest, an SG, came with preslotted saddles and the new abr type bridge with allen screw height poles and a nearly weightless stop bar.
I bought a fret end file, I think with a regular triangle file I can make the overall shape, and the close to wood stuff I'll do with the special file. got a whole bunch of sandpaper wet/dry on the way as well so I think I'm gonna be good. If it all works out I might actually polish it. I happen to have these fairly big polishing wheels made of nylon, and it's used for brass material. Do you think that will work out on nickel frets? well I'll be trying it with a cheap guitar first anyway. But still.
Maybe in the future I will refret a guitar, but I think for that I rather have someone specialized do it. First instrument I'd refret is my US fender. And by the time those Jumbo's can't be filed anymore probably I'll have saved enough to have it refretted with steel frets. I had my martin refretted with that and over 4 - 5 years there still isn't even close to a dent to be found at all.
Please do a version of this video for Stratocaster bridges.
I sent my guitar for repair of a backbowed neck where the single action truss rod was completely loose. The shop had it for a week, but claimed they couldn't repair it, but waited the 6th day to inform me they only filed some frets down and it still buzzes.
Should I pay them for a job they didn't completely fix?
This was a super helpful video. Thanks so much!
I’ve never been a huge fan of those nylon bridge saddles. On the two guitars I’ve owned that had them, I swapped them out for metal ones (just to keep with my Metal Head background.... LOL) :)
Bruh, I use brass saddles and nut to keep up on my "Brassers" account on my guitar ;)