@@WorkingAudioTools sounds awesome. You use them mainly for your mixing or just for a second opinion? Also they seem to connect via wifi or something. Does that add a noticeable latency? 😊
I connect them via XLR to dx7 pro+. They have balanced, unbalanced, optical spdif & high quality Bluetooth inputs Any speaker I get will always be second reference to my headphone setup
Ouch, wish I'd known that before about GIK... Just spent £1500 on 6 Turbo bass traps and 3 acoustic panels. Saved a bit by building 4 panels myself, that I can also move around as gobo's for makeshift booths
Have you guys tried VSX? Considering the price it's a no brainer to include even as a reference. I will say after 3 or 4 years in using them, they're certainly not the only thing you need like some like to say, but definitely worth including IMO.
It'd depend on how you were going to use the room, but if it was primarily for mixing and mastering then I'd almost certainly want to spend at lot more than a grand on acoustic treatment - for me it'd be more like 50% of the budget on acoustic treatment.
@@WorkingAudioTools Yeah, that's definitely true! It could also be that I have a preference for a drier room, too. I'm just an average punter, but after binge watching Acoustic Insider videos and doing some reading I DIY treated my home office / mixing room in my house (3.5m x 4.5m x 2.4m) with 7.6m3 of absorptive material. The panels I built are 180cm x 80cm x 30cm with a 15cm airgap behind them; the cloud above the listening position is 240cm x 180cm x 30cm; and the rear of the room used to be a built in cupboard but now it's a 350cm x 170cm x 80cm bass trap. With these panels, I've covered a lot of the surface area of the room to try to create a reflection free listening zone. The results are really great! The room has about a 10dB delta from 40Hz - 20kHz @ 1/12 smoothing, and a very even decay time of around 150ms down to 75Hz. It rises a bit below 75Hz and peaks at 320ms at around 35Hz (where there is a room mode). I'll be upgrading my speakers next!
I'd go for the Neumann KH120/750/MA-1 monitoring with mix cubes (either Aura or Avantones). I'd also get the Neumann NDH30s because they really do match the Neumann monitors incredibly well (no need to EQ or room simulator here!). For interface... probably the most amazing and overlooked "device" - the SPL Marc One! It's a 32bit 768kHz ADC/DAC that is also a high quality headphone amp (with crossfeed) AND a monitor controller for your two pairs of speakers, AND two pairs of line inputs and one pair of line outs! The remaining 500 quid would go to iso stands and a pair of bass traps. 😎
one thing that I've never seen in these kind of video is a detailed explanation of everything needed to build a home studio. Yes knowing "the big stuff" is great but most beginners don't know that they also have to consider plugs, cables, power supplies as part of the budget. it would be great to have a video that goes step by step from empty room to full working studio.
There's a bunch of mundane small things that gets overlooked in almost all UA-cam videos on building recording studios. Your suggestion is a great one. I help several studio channels so I'll pass that along. I've seen Paul's video Ed mentioned, but there are even more things that should be mentioned.
I'd be spending almost the entire budget on room treatment. I'd prefer the most generic cheap computer speakers with an extremely well treated room than premium speakers with little to no treatment. Having said that I have an extremely well treated room and high class speakers, but if we're talking budget-ish then I'm dumping all of it into the room even if I'm on headphones.
Dunno, Transient response and distortion would always be my concern on cheap computer speakers. Without good transient response your localisation is a lot more difficult, everything just kinda sounds the same and if you can't push the speakers loud without them colouring and crapping out then your treatment is essentially wasted cause you can't trust what you are hearing. Id say budget studio monitors and an extremely well treated room works better than premium speakers with little treatment. So say a pair of Kali LP6 in an extremely well treated room would lean itself better for mixing than a pair of amphions in a bedroom with no treatment. But even still the kali's have the drawback of detailed transient response so as you've experienced, to do it professionally you need to invest heavily in both
I still have Beyerdynamic and it’s the DT990 and they’ve worked for me. Maybe it’s because I work on my own music. Maybe it’s because my music doesn’t need a lot of low-end. Maybe it’s because of have some other ways to make sure it sounds the way I would like them to sound. Or maybe it’s because I still don’t know what I’m doing 😉
Paul - speakers - presonus eris studio 8, kali in5, kali ws6.2, edifier s3000 mkii, Iso acoustic stands Ed - Neumann kh120 + kh750 (inc ma1 calibration) Headphones - Paul - hifiman ananda nano, Dan Clark E3, ollo s5x + dsoniq realphones Ed - Audeze Mx4, apple airpod max, apple air pod pro Converter - topping dx7 pro+ Interface - audient evo 16 +sp8
Why not the Audeze LCD-5 for the headphones only option ? They 3550 £ and seem to be the industry standard and already have a sonarworks profile for people used to that sound on cheaper headphones.
Regarding headphones, out of interest, have you guys ever tried out electrostatics from the likes of Stax? Stax always used to be the top end of headphones ... but now I see planars taking centre stage . Is that purely because they dont need a special high voltage driver amp and so are portable? Or are planars now as good, fast, detailed as electrostatics? EDIT: Actually, I see Dan Clark Audio also have electrostatics ... so perhaps their website bumf will tell me what they think about the two types of driver ...
Probably the amp requirement. I couldn't be bothered having to buy a seperate amp for a pair of headphones that can achieve the same low distortion levels of a planar
How about a 15K... including everything acoustics and wires power conditioners and all... for someone that will be doing a bit of everything including steaming, personal recording (not band), production (so midi instruments), then mixing and mastering (Including controllers)?
It'd be too long. We are dealing with retention on a much larger scale. It's honestly difficult just to get more than 600 people to watch a part of it, never mind 600 people watching at least half. The platform really dictates the content. We are thinking about a video covering a lot of the "boring" stuff but it's how you get people to watch that
Take it you didn't listen to the part with Paul talking about his mentoring client? He brought them into his studio and they compared his mix vs Paul's setup. The beyers didn't translate to any of Paul's setup, thus Paul's comment
Paul you need to do a video on those edifier s3000 🙂
I'm gonna do a video of monitors under £1000 where I'll feature them but feel free to ask away now
@@WorkingAudioTools sounds awesome. You use them mainly for your mixing or just for a second opinion? Also they seem to connect via wifi or something. Does that add a noticeable latency? 😊
I connect them via XLR to dx7 pro+. They have balanced, unbalanced, optical spdif & high quality Bluetooth inputs
Any speaker I get will always be second reference to my headphone setup
Hope to see some interesting guests coming on the podcast again. 😉
Us too!
Ouch, wish I'd known that before about GIK... Just spent £1500 on 6 Turbo bass traps and 3 acoustic panels. Saved a bit by building 4 panels myself, that I can also move around as gobo's for makeshift booths
For £5k total I'd go PSI A17M, RME ADI-2 DAC, Slate VSX.
Have you guys tried VSX? Considering the price it's a no brainer to include even as a reference. I will say after 3 or 4 years in using them, they're certainly not the only thing you need like some like to say, but definitely worth including IMO.
It's only cause we haven't tried it but we've only heard good things
Listen to the previous episode 👌 - Ed
It'd depend on how you were going to use the room, but if it was primarily for mixing and mastering then I'd almost certainly want to spend at lot more than a grand on acoustic treatment - for me it'd be more like 50% of the budget on acoustic treatment.
Depends on the room. The amount of treatment required is all dependent on the room. If you make your own panels you can definitely do it for a grand
@@WorkingAudioTools Yeah, that's definitely true! It could also be that I have a preference for a drier room, too.
I'm just an average punter, but after binge watching Acoustic Insider videos and doing some reading I DIY treated my home office / mixing room in my house (3.5m x 4.5m x 2.4m) with 7.6m3 of absorptive material. The panels I built are 180cm x 80cm x 30cm with a 15cm airgap behind them; the cloud above the listening position is 240cm x 180cm x 30cm; and the rear of the room used to be a built in cupboard but now it's a 350cm x 170cm x 80cm bass trap. With these panels, I've covered a lot of the surface area of the room to try to create a reflection free listening zone.
The results are really great! The room has about a 10dB delta from 40Hz - 20kHz @ 1/12 smoothing, and a very even decay time of around 150ms down to 75Hz. It rises a bit below 75Hz and peaks at 320ms at around 35Hz (where there is a room mode).
I'll be upgrading my speakers next!
I'd go for the Neumann KH120/750/MA-1 monitoring with mix cubes (either Aura or Avantones). I'd also get the Neumann NDH30s because they really do match the Neumann monitors incredibly well (no need to EQ or room simulator here!). For interface... probably the most amazing and overlooked "device" - the SPL Marc One! It's a 32bit 768kHz ADC/DAC that is also a high quality headphone amp (with crossfeed) AND a monitor controller for your two pairs of speakers, AND two pairs of line inputs and one pair of line outs! The remaining 500 quid would go to iso stands and a pair of bass traps. 😎
👍👍
one thing that I've never seen in these kind of video is a detailed explanation of everything needed to build a home studio. Yes knowing "the big stuff" is great but most beginners don't know that they also have to consider plugs, cables, power supplies as part of the budget. it would be great to have a video that goes step by step from empty room to full working studio.
Paul did that with his atmos room on his channel
@@WorkingAudioTools oh really! I have to check it out! Thank you
There's a bunch of mundane small things that gets overlooked in almost all UA-cam videos on building recording studios. Your suggestion is a great one. I help several studio channels so I'll pass that along.
I've seen Paul's video Ed mentioned, but there are even more things that should be mentioned.
What do you think is more important. Speaker placement or, product placement?
Are you implying that we were paid to talk about the gear we mentioned in this series?
Oooo, with unlimited budget Atmos studio with Genelec The Ones (something like Morten Lindberg's studio) would be nice, hahaha.
Mines would be PMC - Paul
I'd be spending almost the entire budget on room treatment. I'd prefer the most generic cheap computer speakers with an extremely well treated room than premium speakers with little to no treatment. Having said that I have an extremely well treated room and high class speakers, but if we're talking budget-ish then I'm dumping all of it into the room even if I'm on headphones.
Dunno, Transient response and distortion would always be my concern on cheap computer speakers. Without good transient response your localisation is a lot more difficult, everything just kinda sounds the same and if you can't push the speakers loud without them colouring and crapping out then your treatment is essentially wasted cause you can't trust what you are hearing.
Id say budget studio monitors and an extremely well treated room works better than premium speakers with little treatment.
So say a pair of Kali LP6 in an extremely well treated room would lean itself better for mixing than a pair of amphions in a bedroom with no treatment. But even still the kali's have the drawback of detailed transient response so as you've experienced, to do it professionally you need to invest heavily in both
@@WorkingAudioTools I think my point was made. In my world Kali's are cheap generic computer speakers.
I wouldn't class as that but OK
@@WorkingAudioTools I did say in my world lol.
I still have Beyerdynamic and it’s the DT990 and they’ve worked for me. Maybe it’s because I work on my own music. Maybe it’s because my music doesn’t need a lot of low-end. Maybe it’s because of have some other ways to make sure it sounds the way I would like them to sound. Or maybe it’s because I still don’t know what I’m doing 😉
🤷♂️ Haha
love this videos. but i think you should put the names or the links of the products named
Paul - speakers - presonus eris studio 8, kali in5, kali ws6.2, edifier s3000 mkii, Iso acoustic stands
Ed - Neumann kh120 + kh750 (inc ma1 calibration)
Headphones - Paul - hifiman ananda nano, Dan Clark E3, ollo s5x + dsoniq realphones
Ed - Audeze Mx4, apple airpod max, apple air pod pro
Converter - topping dx7 pro+
Interface - audient evo 16 +sp8
@@WorkingAudioTools thanks
Why not the Audeze LCD-5 for the headphones only option ? They 3550 £ and seem to be the industry standard and already have a sonarworks profile for people used to that sound on cheaper headphones.
Cause he's not tried LCD-5
Regarding headphones, out of interest, have you guys ever tried out electrostatics from the likes of Stax? Stax always used to be the top end of headphones ... but now I see planars taking centre stage . Is that purely because they dont need a special high voltage driver amp and so are portable? Or are planars now as good, fast, detailed as electrostatics? EDIT: Actually, I see Dan Clark Audio also have electrostatics ... so perhaps their website bumf will tell me what they think about the two types of driver ...
Probably the amp requirement. I couldn't be bothered having to buy a seperate amp for a pair of headphones that can achieve the same low distortion levels of a planar
Hi what headphones do you recommend for the client to where when Recording?.
Closed backs that have good isolation. Sony's and beyerdynamic are normally the most common
Personally, I always go back to my Sennheiser HD300 Pros. Audeze LCD-XC are great but they’re weighty. - Ed
What would you have in your budget? 🤓
I mix on truthear zero red always. Works perfect
I could never trust just in ears. Soundstage and placement is the biggest limiting factor for me
Id say CLA-10’s, KRK V8’s, Antelope 32, Audio Technica headphones.
👍👍
How about a 15K... including everything acoustics and wires power conditioners and all... for someone that will be doing a bit of everything including steaming, personal recording (not band), production (so midi instruments), then mixing and mastering (Including controllers)?
Software and plugins to ☝
Maybe including dolby Atmos and if that is possible?? at least possible if headphones
UA-cam not including the video bits
It'd be too long. We are dealing with retention on a much larger scale. It's honestly difficult just to get more than 600 people to watch a part of it, never mind 600 people watching at least half.
The platform really dictates the content. We are thinking about a video covering a lot of the "boring" stuff but it's how you get people to watch that
Work with what you have and if it’s not broken then it works fine, who has 5 grand lying around to buy all you need in one take? 🤷🏼♂️
It's just a bit of fun
Eve audio e3070 and topping 7 pro plus and treatment for room and some rokit 5 hhhh
Don't think Ed ever tried Eve audio but I know emrah has a pair of Eve's
Dt900 prox dos not soundt schiit . You dont heard theme so you can t tell noting about theme .
Take it you didn't listen to the part with Paul talking about his mentoring client? He brought them into his studio and they compared his mix vs Paul's setup. The beyers didn't translate to any of Paul's setup, thus Paul's comment
Yes dt 900 prox is not the same with old dt990 pro is huge deferent.@@WorkingAudioTools
Paul didn't say it was the old 990 pro. He said what he had in college was the dt770 pro. Different scenarios here
Beyerdynamic is shit