they will most likely do that as a mini gun sup weapon that's backpack fed. 300 rounds, no reloading, light armour penetration. but takes the place of both sup weapon and backback
Arrowhead should make a backpack strategem specifically for machine guns. Call it, "Belt-fed Supply Backpack". It connects an ammo chain to any support machine gun. It can give four resupplies of ammo in a continuous chain for the attached machine gun.
Alternately (or perhaps, additionally!), they ought to have an MG-centric backpack that's just a tripod you can put down to mount your LMG/MMG/HMG on while prone. Would feel fun to slam that thing down when you need to lay fire and have it actually benefit the weapon's performance.
Well in that sense you can use the resupply backpack from that, but its definitely not as cool. I was hoping for a backpack fed HMG like whats on the Mechs. Even if its makes you slow and didnt have sights, a 1000 round backpack that reloads 25% with ammo drops would be awesome!
Would probably have to put a barrel temp meter on it. The hotter the barrel gets, the more inaccurate it gets, and if it gets too hot, you have to stop shooting or risk your gun seizing or the barrel melting off
Thank you! I try my best, but of course, when it comes to presenting numbers and data, there's always the risk of misrepresenting something. Appreciate the comment!
Not critiquing or anything, just something I thought about, this weapon is really terrible at vibes overall, it might be great, but my first mission with the weapon was frustrating and painful, and my main weapon was more satisfying to use, so even if the weapon was op, the terrible "vibes" are a huge part of it
The problem with this gun is that if it wants to be a medium armor shredding weapon only, the Autocannon does it ~ *SO* ~ much better. 60 shots, 1-2 to kill most things, time to kill is nearly instant, and reload time is as low as reloading a primary if you reload after 5 shots. You can compete by taking the supply backpack, but that takes 2 strategem slots instead of 1.
@@rykenxiv hey, may i suggest to also use numerical values along side description of armor piercing. For instance i.e. medium penetration (1) corresponds to armor piercing 3 medium penetration (2) 4 and so on. I can send you source data for weapons
i havent used it a ton but on a really low fire rate it can kinda work but i still think for being a massive heavy machine gun, it's seriously lacking fun factor to me, having to reload constantly after shooting for such a short time feels awful honestly it's odd to me they didn't go the route of backpack that belt feeds the gun so it has tons of ammo but costs a backpack slot and controls like ass unless prone (also why do so many guns have bipods but they dont actually let you mount the guns?) edit: oh and the sights are super misaligned but at least that's something the devs have stated will be fixed
I agree. I was using it yesterday and it really does needs that fun factor. Like damn add just a bit more to it, it ain't hard. They don't have to make it OP to the point to one shot, nooo, not at all. But en extra mag and making it a 125 round gun it'll fix it.
Yea.. that's the thing - I wish it was at least fun! I have a lot of fun with the Stalwart even though it can't deal with medium armour. Just being able to unload 1000s of bullets into fodder is - if nothing, at least satisfyingly delightful
@@Mikisoq39 You have to look down the scope which means going into first person view when ADS'ing. Usually thats middle mouse button on pc. Thats also how you aim the anti material rifle.
I wonder if they'll fix the AMR's sights being misaligned as well - they're low and right compared to where the bullet lands, and while slight, it only compounds with distance. As soon as I found out that was a thing, I immediately understood why I usually fail to two-tap Hulks in the head with it: when at a safe distance from the Hulk, the misalignment is enough that your shots don't actually hit it's faceplate, which is why I usually had to spam shots to take it down with any level of speed. The misaligned and overly sci-fi elements some of the sights in this game have still make me sad, but at least the Sickle actually has really nice sights imo.
as far as your breaking down of the armor penetration goes, there was a tweet thread by the CEO of Arrowhead who mentioned that Armor and AP is actually on a scale of 1-10, and if your AP is under, you bounce off, if it's equal you do some damage, and with higher AP you do full damage. He didn't mention if going higher above gives extra damage or anything like that, but I figure that's probably a value you could derive from your testing as extensive as it is.
Yes! I am aware of that tweet! It's just that because the HMG Emplacement and the MG-206 don't have the hit indicators on armour, its going to be pretty difficult to test it out... Though I'm sure in my boredom I'll start thinking of how to create a consistent test... (that's how the damage testing came about!)
@@rykenxivmain consideration I can see is needing to find out what armour various (key then common, so devastators/spewers then the big stuff we know “needs” AV/anti-heavy) enemy types have then also having to compare that on a 1-10 scale with various light/med/heavy pen weapons. That’s a whole heap of trial and error work given how many of the game stats remain hidden. In terms of methodology I’d say EMS (you or a helper, maybe both) first make sure the EMS doesn’t give a damage bonus. Then bring 2-4 ems into missions and start plinking various enemies in their various zones until they fall over. The very worst kind of testing as it’s tedious as hell but it does deliver results (until the games patched next week >< ). We REALLY need less hidden stats on PvE games, we can “solve” them on “feel” alone but knowing the numbers helps us point out specifics why some lesser weapons really need some love versus “it doesn’t feel good enough”. Helldivers is one of those games that could really use a proper warframe style wikia not the usual half-assed link-tastic “let’s just copy paste the dev notes” ones that other multi platform games end up with (or lord have mercy the mess and horrendous system in console-first RNG based titles like destiny/NMS/Elite/modern-far-cry where every mission or situational guide is on a different website).
@@rykenxiv To my knowledge almost all units and weapons actually only take up the 1-5 range. 6-10 are for the heavy structures (gunship factory and observer tower) so they resist most anti tank weapons and airstrikes. There are no zero-penetration weapons in the game right now. Formerly the Breaker S&P would bounce off of the Brood Commander's head. Light penetration weapons will kill a Brood Commander with only headshots. Medium penetration weapons will kill a hive guard from the front. Medium+ (the game calls this "vehicle armor" in most stratagem descriptions, patch notes for when laser cannon got buffed to this level called it "medium" but it's not the same tier) penetration weapons will kill a walker from the front, aiming only at the armor plate. Blast weapons can kill the pilot without penetrating the armor, so hulk eyes are another choice here. Heavy penetration weapons will kill a charger from the front. All enemy parts have either no armor or one of these four armor tiers. For all tiers, if you overpenetrate you do 100% damage. If you match exactly you only do 50% damage. If you don't penetrate, the bullet bounces. From this point it is very simple to use your shield generator numbers, compare against these 4 targets, and see if damage adds up or not. If there are invisible tiers, maybe the HMG does 40% against the walkers while the AMR does 90%, but I would very much doubt that from my own gameplay. Everything seems consistent - either you do full, half, or none. On a similar note: some people will repeat things about "weakspot multipliers" that would make this testing not work, but as far as I've been able to tell any theorizing about crit multipliers is based off of one Reddit post from a guy shooting a brood commander in its armored head and declaring all AP weapons have a higher headshot multiplier, so it's probably not actually an issue.
In a horde shooter, having low ammo and seven seconds of static reload can turn many off to the idea of this heavy mg when the mg 43 can still deal with the enemies although not as effectively and the overlaps with the autocannon. A non reloadable ammo backpack with say 750 rounds would be perfect and give you enough time for the mg/backpack combo stratagem to recharge. The MG-206 is just in an awkward position between the mg43 and the autocannon currently.
Yeah, what I would call an unhappy medium. Sustained fire? MG-43 does it better. Medium armored targets? Autocannon kills them from farther away, more efficiently. Furthermore, both of those other weapons have a brace reticle. "But the autocannon needs a backpack." So does the MG-206 if you want to shoot it for more than six nanoseconds.
@@starslayer8390the AC can also 1-shot most “lesser” threats, take out spawners, has enough ammo to be almost a primary weapon and can do a half reload in 1.3? Seconds which is entirely doable in a combat situation when those 5 shots could kill a charger (booty shots), 2-5 devastators/hunters/brood or delete almost any weak-point/soft-objective in return FROM THE HIP. Compared to that the “heavy” machine gun is less useful than the JAR, scorcher, flamethrower, slug-shotguns, sickle and arguably even the breaker (that nerf was barely a slap on the wrist).
It needs something, that's for sure. MG-43 is doing 80% of it's job and the remaining 20% is being split between the autocannon and dedicated anti-tank weapons.
I generally prefer high-skill shots over spray and pray. But, the HMG's strength is that it can tackle anything and is very forgiving. I love the autocannon, but reloading it is painful and you need to make each shot count. The HMG lets you just take a thing out without needing to connect with every round. You shouldn't use it against hordes just like you wouldn't use an auto cannon against hordes. The AMR is my other favorite support weapon, but, it bounces off lots of things. If the AMR penetrated armor like it should, then the HMG and autocannon would be less useful. But, apparently an HMG penetrates armor better than an AMR in this universe.
I just wish the HMG had a retical when firing from the hip. As usual though, great analysis! Its always nice to have someone take a look at these weapons through a more methodical standpoint. Makes me actually see the upsides of what I had considered to be a very lackluster weapon.
I was surprised that it still kicks so much while prone. Weapon attachments could be a nice addition though. Laser attachment for 3rd person and a bipod for prone.
Some simple QoL things that could help the MG206. 1. Over the shoulder 3rd person aimpoint 2. Barring the first point, then a first person muzzle flash nerf to not obscure your vision when firing 3. First person red dot that actually aims where the bullet hits. Right now bullets consistently hit below the red dot.
It should get a 3rd person aimpoint if prone or if crouched and immobile. You should basically be a mobile pillbox, but the pushing fire role should remain the strength of the MMG
I have to say, out of every Helldiver analysis, you are the most meticulate. The data gathering is extremely helpful. Now that you started showing more clear breakpoints for the main enemies (plus the ads tip was amazing), I don't even feel the need to check more information from others. Excellent Helldiving!
Shredding hulks at melee range is incredibly fun with the HMG, almost feels like darktide again when I can charge straight at the automatons rather than away, as the HMG is perfect at CQC (it still needs that 3rd person crosshair tho, hate how i need to go into first person to aim this) Ammo is also a big problem, never felt so hungry for ammo before in HD2
Dealing with Hulks is too niche for this to be useful, there are better support weapons to take them out like the AMR or Quasar or even the laser cannon. Right now it's basically a heavy unit counter except every single other weapon used for that purpose is better.
You can just run jar dominator and it does what this gun is supposed to better. Then you can take MG-43 against fodder and longer range medium targets. The lack of reticle makes this already terrible gun feel even worse, also AMR you can actually aim and take out threats from a safe distance, good luck trying to kill a flamethrower hulk with this piece of shlt.
@jonhack2585 Jar is explosive so it does full damage against equal armor. It can't deal with hulks from the front but that's whatever just stun them and a couple of shots in the back makes them blow up.
@@anitaremenarova6662 Heavy Machine Gun is really just a Devastator Devastator at the moment. It shreds the more common medium units like a standard MG shreds through fodder
i honestly didnt realize that there was different types of pebtration outside of light medium and heavy pen just by the UI in game, this makes ALLOT more sense now, as before i was thinking the heavy machine gun didnt even have a place, but vs bots makes total sense now.
All weapons have a ton of stats, such as bullet speed, bullet drop, penetration, perforation which people confuse with penetration and refers to destroying armor and body parts and much more
You can tell when you are doing full damage because the little hit confirmation cross that pops up next to your reticle is red instead of white. Sadly, the HMG and AMR don't have a third person reticle, so you can't see this.
I main the HMG on Bots. I love it along with the diligence. On 450 rpm you can easily snipe with the HMG standing, even without -recoil armor when you tap the trigger. It also has enough stagger to keept devastators in check. It is not as direct as the autocannon, but also doesn't explode you in melee range. I just love it.
I played a ton of hmg just because it's an HMG but who are you trying to fool mate? It sucks and everyone knows it. Don't try to defend a weapon that desperatly needs a change
Wonderful breakdown. You've actually inspired me to give the heavy MG a try. Combined with a supply pack, it looks like a pretty versatile player in a team of 2-3.
The supply pack is my favorite pairing for the heavy machine gun. It gives you such a fun heavy weapons guy vibe that I fuck with and even though the hmg chews through ammo, a supply pack really makes it a non-issue
Pretty sure indeed that the HMG emplacement has more piercing power, from how it feels that mounted MG can shred striders like nobody's business yet the MG-206 feels like it needs anywhere from 6 to 10 shots per strider. I think its also important to mention that aiming at where the driver is, is very important. I've noted how it can take 3 anti-material rifle shots when shooting where the gun is as opposed to 2 when shooting where the driver is. And this likely has to do with the penetration table again or just accidentally hitting the gun of the strider. The MG-206's worst problem is not having a third person crosshair (so I can't see the X marker of what im doing to the target) and the first person crosshair rises something fierce and is ofset a lot. I feel I need to aim quite a bit above my target to hit and with the incredible muzzle climb shooting from anything but crouched or prone (with recoil reduction armor) feels highly inaccurate. But the worst is the mag size, I think 100 round mag would help it quite some.
I was thinking about that too - it feels like the HMG Emplacement would deal more penetration given its damage is also significantly higher. Agree on having a little more ammo in the gun!
This channel is a diamond in a rough. I keep getting fed trash breakdowns and horrible analysis by the greater hell diver community and I am glad I went through that bc it brought me here. Thank you for scratching the itch of good analysis, and great content
I got back to this video after deciding to run supply pack and heavy support. Made me realise that for what I need it, MG-206 might actually be more viable. Also. Mate. Ive been watching you since Darktide and its criminal how youre still so low on subscribers. You deserve way more for all this work you do.
Holy shit I love the way you talk. Your word choice is very evocative and you've got just the slightest accent that makes me hang on every sentence. I could listen to you talk about anything and I'd enjoy it.
I never used it against the bugs, with the bots I find it to be better than the MG-43. It took a while to realize why, though. When you are fighting a patrol, I can reliably destroy a full patrol with the HMG in one mag, but not the MG-43. The simple reason is, the MG-43 can take 2-3 bullets to take down a grunt/trash unit, while the HMG kills them in one. While the damage per mag is higher with the MG-43, If 3/4 of a bullet damage is wasted to finish off one trash, it's not worth it. Also the MG-43 doesn't stagger at all sometimes., means you will get hit a whole bunch more while firing, And sometimes, It doesn't stop the grunt from calling a drop ship. It pens striders front, So I don't need to throw my impact grenades at them. I also altered the way I walk around the map to go for ammo boxes, removing the need for ammo backpack. It's super good, I love it. One problem I have with it is the muzzle flash, So first person is not good.
Excellent experience there, I am the opposite and mostly fight bugs and you have confirmed my suspicion that the HMG is specifically for bots while the MG 43 is for bugs. Of course you would want stopping power and stagger against bots because they are shooting at you, while of course you want ammo capacity and stability against moving bugs in mass. Makes perfect sense, but I think we all agree that some kind of buff to the HMG would be nice.
Dude, the time and effort put into deducing damage based on so many unknow variables is NEXT FUCKING LEVEL dedication. Thank you for all you do for the community!
This is the first video I've seen from you and I'm already hooked. I really hate how Helldivers 2 refuses to give details on many strategems and especially the strategem equipment. You do an exceptional job at filling in that gaping hole, and give some great tips too.
You definitely deserve more subs. I love the fact that you are doing very descriptive breakdowns and also trying to make everything viable. Or at least trying to give them a place, I really appreciate it. I got a little burnt out on the whole meta community.
The table was definitely worth the work, it's priceless information and I respect your determination of not engaging with data mining. I remember playing The Legend of Zelda: OoT as a kid and working out how much health things had and how much damage weapons did. Of course, that was a bit simpler.
Solid original research and testing. I took screenshots of your charts. Going to mull those over. I think you're about right, it's a "secondary" weapon to pull out when needed, not to run around with as primary all day.
I honestly fell in love with this piece of scrap metal. I run it very similar to this, though for the bots I would wear the fortified medium to heavy armor. It does get overwhelmed easily if you aren't careful but the supply pack allows you to take an ammo hungry primary to buy you a reload. I'll have to use the stuns again, but I miss the utility and horde clear of the impacts. I like running 500kg and Railstrike for bugs and changing it to laser for the bots. I like to use the Scorcher, Jar, Breaker, Breaker incendiary, Punisher, and old Slugger with it. I generally run it like a primary and then pull out my usual primary to handle either distant or swarming targets. It does need serious help to make it to the big leagues but it is fun to run it with a team.
I’ve legit been waiting for a support weapon with super high damage and terrible ammo. Specifically to take a supply pack and be the heavy weapons guy. The HMG is unironically what I’ve been waiting for
What you've stated is exactly right. I've run the HMG as my main since it's release. Though it has its negatives, the damage output as well as the armor penetration is really high. Also, I shoot entirely in 3rd person view. Once you learn how to, you'll find out that managing the aim is much quicker to do than first-person. That being said, you're absolutely right that the gun should not be fired on full-auto regularly. You tap shoot it, which essentially is a short 2-bullet shot burst. Using 750 rpm, you can stabilize your shots. Here's my breakdown on how fast you can drop enemies: Hulks - 5-8 bursts Berserkers - 5-7 bursts Devastators - 4-6 bursts Shield Devastator - 4-6 bursts Srriders - 4-6 bursts Gunship- 5-8 bursts Others - 1-2 bursts. If they block - 2-4 bursts. All this requires knowing their weak points. For bugs, it's similar in enemy difficulty. Except for Chargers. Those you have to shoot off their leg armor as usual.
This is a good breakdown, especially about the Medium II part, but I agree with your closing thoughts that this weapon still isnt good. If it's only real advantage is slightly better AP, why wouldn't I take a more dedicated and flexible AP weapon?
Well, I guess my intuition was spot on with this thing. I've been using the 206 pretty much exactly as you concluded it should be since they added it, including armor passives, grenade type, and backpack stratagem.
Autocannon is the goat It’s just so good There’s literally no point in bringing anything else The hmg is is fun if you have the time to set up prone/fortified armor If they have it a 3rd person reticle it would be much better Also the 950 rpm is the best by far It shoots 10-15 shots before the recoil gets too bad It also has a max recoil so in bursts after the first the following bursts are extremly accurate
Great video! My impressions were you couldn't get much done with the total ammo it had and you essentially needed to run the supply backpack to make it worth it, with it's only saving grace being the 2 mag return per box. Glad to see the glorious tables agree! I really like the gun it is fun, but I feel like it definitely needs help. It just doesn't bring much to the table when you consider it soft requires a backpack and there are primaries like the Scorcher that can deal with mediums almost as well without having the horrible reload. I agree with many others, I think it needs to be backpack fed. Maybe like 500 rounds with no reload required? Make it like the wave clear version of the EAT!
Really appreciate a video like this, that shows the pros, cons and ideal situations for a weapon. Still likely to leave the HMG at home, but knowing the right circumstance means it might actually hit the field with me.
I'm back here after the recent Patch 01.000.300 which (among other things) simply added a 3rd person reticle to the HMG, and I gotta personally say that the minor inclusion of that reticle has given me a major change in my playstyle _for the better._ No longer do I have to eyeball a few tracers first before knowing where my barrel is aligned when firing in 3rd person, and no longer do I have to deal with the annoyingly large muzzle flashes with every shot in the 1st person misaligned sight dot. I comfortably run the HMG at 750 RPM because now I confidently know where I'm aiming without having to waste some ammo in my already limited magazine size or needing to switch to a gun with a 3rd person sight and then swapping back. I still wish for at least a 100-round drum magazine or a slightly faster reload, but now I'm content with bringing it into 7+ difficulties (along with a supply pack and stuns because those 2 items are just really damn good lol) and not stress about if I'm "contributing" enough to my team
Your in depth breakdown and structured presentation of these videos is awesome and earned a sub man! I'm looking forward to all the guides and analysis you do!
A couple tips for aiming with the 206 While standing, your elbow is pretty much center screen, so line the elbow up with the approaching path and you should be on target. I've turned my reticle off recently because I found myself focusing on lining it up more than I should While crouched, you zoom in a bit, it's more like the bicep at that point but I generally use half a heads width from the ear to gauge when crouched It also kicks up to the left when you start firing, so a 3 round burst will go almost dead center but after that you gotta pull down to the right a touch You can do a 7ish round burst comfortably from crouched with only a slight pull to the right at the end at close to mid range If you have stalkers present, I'd generally advise you kick the fire rate to max, dive backwards when it beelines you and rip a 10 round burst at it. The increased stability of being prone generally allows this to be accurate.
Thanks for all of the information! Do you think you could make a video detailing armor penetration, and a table for each weapon? I didn't realize there were multiple tiers of light or medium armor penetration values.
great video, hope you will do a video on all the different values of armor penetration and enemy armor values in the future, i think thats a topic that not enough people are testing and talking about!
Was excited for the HMG, but without being able to accurately engage at long ranges I've just opted to start carrying the HMG Emplacement whenever I can spare it, it can merk anything aside from chargers, titans, and tanks, and I've found it especially helpful with bots as a good bit of stagger and suppressive fire can hold then off and destroy an entire patrol or two.
I think a way they could buff it is either doing what everybody else has been saying and give it an ammo backpack, or they could bump its armor penetration up to heavy. It could function as an alternative to the other heavy armor piercers that can be used against crowds but is clunkier than other choices. That way they also don’t have to redesign the model of the gun either. A gun that functions against most enemies, but isn’t the best choice unless you want to be prepared for all enemies. Of course, i don’t really know much about balancing so this might be a terrible idea, but it’s the one i came up with.
Thank you for this video. I was struggling to find the purpose to this gun. Found it worked a bit better than the MG43 but the lack smaller clip size killed it. Appreciate your numbers here. Gonna try it out tonight and verify against those invisible drama queens.
Excellent analysis, thank you. I think the HMG might need a bit of a buff - but honestly it doesn't need much. A bit better accuracy when prone would be nice in particular, as it seems intended to be used more carefully and in a planned manner - yet even when prone the recoil is too much on average.
I honestly think giving it the 3P crosshair would improve the way the weapon feels greatly without them necessarily needing to change any other aspects of the weapon, because you'd have more confidence to use it and control the recoil without having to "walk" such limited rounds on target. Eliminating the 3P is such a distinctly punishing design choice for such a jumpy weapon with so little ammo. At the same time, it doesn't take much for the HMG to completely usurp the need for an MMG or LMG, so you can't just "give it more ammo"... There'd literally be no reason to take any other MG over the HMG at that point, since the DPS is too impressive. My vote is to give it 85-95 rounds p/drum, and give it the 3P xhair (or _at least_ give it an excellent 1P optic - the current optic feels and looks pretty bad against the muzzleflash of a big bullet).
@@Trepanation21 Honestly, the Stalwart and MG need a buff too. So you might as well buff all their ammo pools at once. They're all outclassed by the arc thrower anyways since that can kill hulks and chargers, too. Hell it can even kill bile titans albeit slowly.
I really appreciate this vid. most other vids are just like "It's bad. don't use it." without really giving it a fair shake. I always like to see vids that show how to leverage a gun's individual strengths. what primary do you like to pair with it?
I usually use the slugger with it, but the Sickle is decent choice to pair with it. If dealing with bots, I've been loving the newly buffed Diligence Counter Sniper and the Plas-1 Scorcher. Generally, have something that you use to deal with light armour since this will solve your medium armour problems. I use the slugger the most because you can't go wrong having more Medium armour pen!
I noticed piaring it with a weapon with medium armor pen is really good, so you can save the HMG for groups of medium armored enemies. My favorite is Lib. Pen. so individual mediums you dont have to use the precious HMG ammo on. You have reload a ton with this weapon and as you said this just multiplies the glacial slow reload since you will be reloading more often. It at least needs a .5 seconds off its reload time. Really a full second if they refuse to give us third person aiming, which I understood on the AMR since its a precision rifle but i dont see the connection for this one not having it also.
i love this video, you gave me new insight on how to use this thing. i really wanted to love this weapon but i very similar experiences to you where in pretty much every situation i tried to use it in i wished i had an autocannon instead. i thought with its extra penetration it would be a bot killer but i felt the autocannon comparison strongest when fighting them. bugs i felt the mags were too shallow even when relying on my primary. i think the stuns are a good idea i never thought about. next time i play against bugs ill try 500kg, cluster, hmg, ammo backpack, with stuns. stuns+eagle 500kg might be the move to have a more reliable answer to chargers, but bile titans might be more of a challenge but if that’s the case i can always try bringing a laser or orbital strike instead of the backpack or cluster
Love the video analysis , I would love to see the machine guns get a buff. My two biggest issues with the HMG is the recoil and the mag capacity. I wanna keep going brrrrrrr
the issue with support weapons like this is that their niche is covered by some primary weapons. If I want a gun that can deal with medium armoured enemies then I'll just use a jar-5 dominator or a slugger or any other medium armour pen weapon. they are sufficient to deal with devastators, hive guards, brood commanders and so on. then I can save my support slot for an anti tank weapon, or If I really want to specialise in medium armour pen then the autocannon or antimaterial rifle is better. Very good video btw, most detailed analysis I've seen of this game.
I like it a lot when paired with the supply backpack, giving you a total of eleven mags if you don't share, while also refilling your grenades and stims. If you set it to the lowest fire rate it still melts devastators while having a much more reasonable recoil, especially with the right armor passive. Use the higher fire rate in bursts if you have a weak spot in sight and you'll be able to dispatch tanks and hulks quite effectively. It's a great weapon if you build around it a bit.
Fantastic video, and I eagerly await the video on the shield testing. In the interim, I'm impatient and was trying to replicate myself, but seem to be getting some inconsistent results. Would it be too much to ask for some highlights? Estimated HP and or Armor Value? Do you need to get the shield to drop and then let it come back, then shoot that until it retreats? Edit: nevermind, did more testing and got consistent results. Didn't realize the shield only stays up for 30 seconds, but if you do ~4200 it will power down for a bit. I was firing too slow.
interesting! I had written it off completely, but now I am curious to give these tips a try. doubt I'd bring it on difficulties 7+, but might be fun to use on 4-6 runs
I've been using it to take down hulks. It can tear the arms off and absolutely shreds if hitting the weak area on the rear. And if you turn it on its slowest ROF, you can use it almost like a DMR but without the scope. Just make sure you bring the B1 supply pack
I've been helldiving for nearly a decade now, and can solo max level content in both games. All that to say, this is excellent analysis and presentation. Arrowhead is pretty good at balancing, so I knew it was likely I was missing something with how lackluster this gun felt. Think the main thing is the fact the gun is shooting really low which drastically impacts how well it performs.
you and cash crop are the best with your analysis for games like darktide and helldivers. you guys are basically making the field manual for the game. it’s a shame that despite weapons having like 30 stats the game refuses to show them.
I was using the HMG emplacement earlier and I really liked it. Though I don’t see ANYONE use it.The only things that I feel could make it more approachable for other players would be either a front facing armor plate to protect the user or a sight for ADS
Always glad to have another option. Seems like they could solve the ammo vs OP balance by making some kind of setup mandatory, such as having to deploy a bipod, or having to shoot from crouch or prone. They could also reduce mobility / speed / stamina recovery while carrying. That could offset increased ammo capacity for a real suppressive fire use case, which is how we’re all wanting to use this I think.
From the AH ceo there is also damage fall off so you got additional things to check. (they probably also have different muzzle velocity at different env effect to also affect the damage drop off. )
@rykenxiv , can attest to backpack and stun grenade combo. Combo is versatile, great for saving team mates and self when overrun. Great to see the HMG get some love, as it is the wife's favorite support weapon. :)
Good vid, agree with everything. I would harp a bit more on the tap fire aspect. Tap fire at 950 and close range is a delete button. Also note that when ads aim below the red dot as it doesn't actually line up. I main it at this point.
They should give it a larger 3rd person reticle when crouched showing approximate bullet position and the normal reticle when prone and remain no reticle when standing to lend to the unwieldy nature it mentions better than having no reticle at all. The couple time I used it I either estimated where I was shooting and adjusted or just ads. The other thing is add some team load, stabilization activity another diver can come and help with or something else to make it more useful/fun.
I'm an MG user, I quite like them against bugs, but I couldn't get the MG-206 to work for me against either bugs or bots. After unlocking the devastator I've found that far more useful for the medium armor bugs and just keep the Stalwart as my "primary" with the devastator as my backup worked very well. Pair it with whatever backpack you want, supplies if you are worried about ammo, and go to town on most bugs. You will need a teammate with a good heavy armor counter, or maybe bring EATs if you want. That being said great guide to the weapon! Once I unlock that nade I will give it a try again, and use it as a "backup" against medium and higher bugs.
This is very helpful! I think I'll try stun grenades to deal with chargers with a recoilless rifle too, once I unlock it, and I think I'll be able to deal with other stuff that requires grenades, like bug holes, with the grenade pistol. Thank you!
I brought this HMG into a game against the bugs and I couldn't justify using it. Either my primary flame shotgun took care of the problem, or when a charger showed up I used something else. Since the HMG would just bounce off if not shooting in the back. If it had 100 rounds, an extra mag, and other fixes like sight alignment. it'd be worth using more. Although a minigun backpack would have also been more fun even if it might not be 'optimal/meta' it'd be fun
The hip fire crosshair is bugged and doesnt always show up on some weapons. All weapons are capable of having one though, as a hipfire crosshair will sometimes inexplicably appear.
Did you factor in the regeneration rate of the shield health against the rate of fire for the weapon being tested? Weapons with a lower rate of fire are going to appear to do less damage per shot because the shield is constantly regenerating health. If you're time between shots / reloads wasn't consistent, that would throw off your results too.
Thank you 👍 Great review! Correct me if I am wrong. All those things you mentioned regarding heavy machine gun armour penetration like hulk front panel and gunships, regular machine gun can't do. Is it correct?
All I got to say, it should've been a backpack fed machine gun. This whole reloading after shooting like 2.5 seconds gets old really fast.
Yea... Maybe they are working on something similar?
a backpack reloaded machinegun that would allow you to play an actual 2 person machinegun team would be so much cooler than what we got imo
Change the fire rate to the lowest available
they will most likely do that as a mini gun sup weapon that's backpack fed. 300 rounds, no reloading, light armour penetration. but takes the place of both sup weapon and backback
This seems to be a wildly popular opinion
"It has the handling of a very reluctant donkey."
Best metaphor I've heard in a long time.
So, a total ass then?
Arrowhead should make a backpack strategem specifically for machine guns. Call it, "Belt-fed Supply Backpack". It connects an ammo chain to any support machine gun. It can give four resupplies of ammo in a continuous chain for the attached machine gun.
Alternately (or perhaps, additionally!), they ought to have an MG-centric backpack that's just a tripod you can put down to mount your LMG/MMG/HMG on while prone. Would feel fun to slam that thing down when you need to lay fire and have it actually benefit the weapon's performance.
@@Trepanation21Or just make bipods work, battlefield style.
Yes!!!
Well in that sense you can use the resupply backpack from that, but its definitely not as cool. I was hoping for a backpack fed HMG like whats on the Mechs. Even if its makes you slow and didnt have sights, a 1000 round backpack that reloads 25% with ammo drops would be awesome!
Would probably have to put a barrel temp meter on it. The hotter the barrel gets, the more inaccurate it gets, and if it gets too hot, you have to stop shooting or risk your gun seizing or the barrel melting off
You are king. I think this is the first analysis that actually went and did math to get numbers for damage and armor penetration and not just vibes
Thank you! I try my best, but of course, when it comes to presenting numbers and data, there's always the risk of misrepresenting something. Appreciate the comment!
That’s our Ryken. All of the nombre
Not critiquing or anything, just something I thought about, this weapon is really terrible at vibes overall, it might be great, but my first mission with the weapon was frustrating and painful, and my main weapon was more satisfying to use, so even if the weapon was op, the terrible "vibes" are a huge part of it
The problem with this gun is that if it wants to be a medium armor shredding weapon only, the Autocannon does it ~ *SO* ~ much better. 60 shots, 1-2 to kill most things, time to kill is nearly instant, and reload time is as low as reloading a primary if you reload after 5 shots. You can compete by taking the supply backpack, but that takes 2 strategem slots instead of 1.
@@rykenxiv hey, may i suggest to also use numerical values along side description of armor piercing. For instance i.e. medium penetration (1) corresponds to armor piercing 3 medium penetration (2) 4 and so on. I can send you source data for weapons
i havent used it a ton but on a really low fire rate it can kinda work but i still think for being a massive heavy machine gun, it's seriously lacking fun factor to me, having to reload constantly after shooting for such a short time feels awful
honestly it's odd to me they didn't go the route of backpack that belt feeds the gun so it has tons of ammo but costs a backpack slot and controls like ass unless prone (also why do so many guns have bipods but they dont actually let you mount the guns?)
edit: oh and the sights are super misaligned but at least that's something the devs have stated will be fixed
I agree. I was using it yesterday and it really does needs that fun factor. Like damn add just a bit more to it, it ain't hard. They don't have to make it OP to the point to one shot, nooo, not at all. But en extra mag and making it a 125 round gun it'll fix it.
How do i aim it?
Yea.. that's the thing - I wish it was at least fun! I have a lot of fun with the Stalwart even though it can't deal with medium armour. Just being able to unload 1000s of bullets into fodder is - if nothing, at least satisfyingly delightful
@@Mikisoq39 You have to look down the scope which means going into first person view when ADS'ing. Usually thats middle mouse button on pc. Thats also how you aim the anti material rifle.
I wonder if they'll fix the AMR's sights being misaligned as well - they're low and right compared to where the bullet lands, and while slight, it only compounds with distance. As soon as I found out that was a thing, I immediately understood why I usually fail to two-tap Hulks in the head with it: when at a safe distance from the Hulk, the misalignment is enough that your shots don't actually hit it's faceplate, which is why I usually had to spam shots to take it down with any level of speed. The misaligned and overly sci-fi elements some of the sights in this game have still make me sad, but at least the Sickle actually has really nice sights imo.
as far as your breaking down of the armor penetration goes, there was a tweet thread by the CEO of Arrowhead who mentioned that Armor and AP is actually on a scale of 1-10, and if your AP is under, you bounce off, if it's equal you do some damage, and with higher AP you do full damage. He didn't mention if going higher above gives extra damage or anything like that, but I figure that's probably a value you could derive from your testing as extensive as it is.
Yes! I am aware of that tweet! It's just that because the HMG Emplacement and the MG-206 don't have the hit indicators on armour, its going to be pretty difficult to test it out... Though I'm sure in my boredom I'll start thinking of how to create a consistent test... (that's how the damage testing came about!)
@@rykenxivmain consideration I can see is needing to find out what armour various (key then common, so devastators/spewers then the big stuff we know “needs” AV/anti-heavy) enemy types have then also having to compare that on a 1-10 scale with various light/med/heavy pen weapons. That’s a whole heap of trial and error work given how many of the game stats remain hidden.
In terms of methodology I’d say EMS (you or a helper, maybe both) first make sure the EMS doesn’t give a damage bonus.
Then bring 2-4 ems into missions and start plinking various enemies in their various zones until they fall over. The very worst kind of testing as it’s tedious as hell but it does deliver results (until the games patched next week >< ).
We REALLY need less hidden stats on PvE games, we can “solve” them on “feel” alone but knowing the numbers helps us point out specifics why some lesser weapons really need some love versus “it doesn’t feel good enough”.
Helldivers is one of those games that could really use a proper warframe style wikia not the usual half-assed link-tastic “let’s just copy paste the dev notes” ones that other multi platform games end up with (or lord have mercy the mess and horrendous system in console-first RNG based titles like destiny/NMS/Elite/modern-far-cry where every mission or situational guide is on a different website).
@@rykenxiv To my knowledge almost all units and weapons actually only take up the 1-5 range. 6-10 are for the heavy structures (gunship factory and observer tower) so they resist most anti tank weapons and airstrikes.
There are no zero-penetration weapons in the game right now. Formerly the Breaker S&P would bounce off of the Brood Commander's head.
Light penetration weapons will kill a Brood Commander with only headshots.
Medium penetration weapons will kill a hive guard from the front.
Medium+ (the game calls this "vehicle armor" in most stratagem descriptions, patch notes for when laser cannon got buffed to this level called it "medium" but it's not the same tier) penetration weapons will kill a walker from the front, aiming only at the armor plate. Blast weapons can kill the pilot without penetrating the armor, so hulk eyes are another choice here.
Heavy penetration weapons will kill a charger from the front.
All enemy parts have either no armor or one of these four armor tiers.
For all tiers, if you overpenetrate you do 100% damage. If you match exactly you only do 50% damage. If you don't penetrate, the bullet bounces. From this point it is very simple to use your shield generator numbers, compare against these 4 targets, and see if damage adds up or not. If there are invisible tiers, maybe the HMG does 40% against the walkers while the AMR does 90%, but I would very much doubt that from my own gameplay. Everything seems consistent - either you do full, half, or none.
On a similar note: some people will repeat things about "weakspot multipliers" that would make this testing not work, but as far as I've been able to tell any theorizing about crit multipliers is based off of one Reddit post from a guy shooting a brood commander in its armored head and declaring all AP weapons have a higher headshot multiplier, so it's probably not actually an issue.
On hulk eye, it can be difficult to shoot it reliably.
Hulks feet have the same armour value actually, and are a larger target
In a horde shooter, having low ammo and seven seconds of static reload can turn many off to the idea of this heavy mg when the mg 43 can still deal with the enemies although not as effectively and the overlaps with the autocannon. A non reloadable ammo backpack with say 750 rounds would be perfect and give you enough time for the mg/backpack combo stratagem to recharge. The MG-206 is just in an awkward position between the mg43 and the autocannon currently.
They should change the fire rate back.
Yeah, what I would call an unhappy medium. Sustained fire? MG-43 does it better. Medium armored targets? Autocannon kills them from farther away, more efficiently. Furthermore, both of those other weapons have a brace reticle. "But the autocannon needs a backpack." So does the MG-206 if you want to shoot it for more than six nanoseconds.
@@starslayer8390the AC can also 1-shot most “lesser” threats, take out spawners, has enough ammo to be almost a primary weapon and can do a half reload in 1.3? Seconds which is entirely doable in a combat situation when those 5 shots could kill a charger (booty shots), 2-5 devastators/hunters/brood or delete almost any weak-point/soft-objective in return FROM THE HIP.
Compared to that the “heavy” machine gun is less useful than the JAR, scorcher, flamethrower, slug-shotguns, sickle and arguably even the breaker (that nerf was barely a slap on the wrist).
It needs something, that's for sure. MG-43 is doing 80% of it's job and the remaining 20% is being split between the autocannon and dedicated anti-tank weapons.
I generally prefer high-skill shots over spray and pray. But, the HMG's strength is that it can tackle anything and is very forgiving. I love the autocannon, but reloading it is painful and you need to make each shot count. The HMG lets you just take a thing out without needing to connect with every round. You shouldn't use it against hordes just like you wouldn't use an auto cannon against hordes.
The AMR is my other favorite support weapon, but, it bounces off lots of things. If the AMR penetrated armor like it should, then the HMG and autocannon would be less useful. But, apparently an HMG penetrates armor better than an AMR in this universe.
I just wish the HMG had a retical when firing from the hip. As usual though, great analysis! Its always nice to have someone take a look at these weapons through a more methodical standpoint. Makes me actually see the upsides of what I had considered to be a very lackluster weapon.
Best i can reccomend is some crosshair app such as hudsight its not dynamic but it gives u some propper aim while hip fireing
Doesnt exist for this gun dude... @khametrick3888
@@khametrick Does not work; probably best not to give advice you haven't even tried yourself, Space Cadet.
@@khametrickI tried it when the HMG first came out. Crosshair would go away when you switch to the weapon.
I hope they dont. Makes it feel like a heavy machine gun, itd just ruin the the others.
a recticle in 3rd person and a prone recoil buff would be a fine start
I was surprised that it still kicks so much while prone.
Weapon attachments could be a nice addition though. Laser attachment for 3rd person and a bipod for prone.
i would ask for an extra reserve mag instead of a reticle, i find it fun to hipfire in a weird way
You can actually change the reticle to ‘always on’ in the settings 😉
@@cussinsk33t3r8 that doesn’t work for the HMG though, the reticle doesn’t show up even when you aim
@@skelint Aaahhh, just like the AMR - didn’t realize that!
Some simple QoL things that could help the MG206.
1. Over the shoulder 3rd person aimpoint
2. Barring the first point, then a first person muzzle flash nerf to not obscure your vision when firing
3. First person red dot that actually aims where the bullet hits. Right now bullets consistently hit below the red dot.
Even adding just a laser sight would be good. It's just annoying not having a reticle
It should get a 3rd person aimpoint if prone or if crouched and immobile.
You should basically be a mobile pillbox, but the pushing fire role should remain the strength of the MMG
I have to say, out of every Helldiver analysis, you are the most meticulate. The data gathering is extremely helpful. Now that you started showing more clear breakpoints for the main enemies (plus the ads tip was amazing), I don't even feel the need to check more information from others. Excellent Helldiving!
This question has been on my mind for awhile, but you've answered it. Thanks a bunch.
THE CHARTS ARE BACK!!!
And there'll only be more!
I love charts.
Never thought I'd say that.
@@Techigaihated them in school, love them for video games 😂
Shredding hulks at melee range is incredibly fun with the HMG, almost feels like darktide again when I can charge straight at the automatons rather than away, as the HMG is perfect at CQC (it still needs that 3rd person crosshair tho, hate how i need to go into first person to aim this)
Ammo is also a big problem, never felt so hungry for ammo before in HD2
Dealing with Hulks is too niche for this to be useful, there are better support weapons to take them out like the AMR or Quasar or even the laser cannon. Right now it's basically a heavy unit counter except every single other weapon used for that purpose is better.
You can just run jar dominator and it does what this gun is supposed to better. Then you can take MG-43 against fodder and longer range medium targets. The lack of reticle makes this already terrible gun feel even worse, also AMR you can actually aim and take out threats from a safe distance, good luck trying to kill a flamethrower hulk with this piece of shlt.
@jonhack2585 Jar is explosive so it does full damage against equal armor. It can't deal with hulks from the front but that's whatever just stun them and a couple of shots in the back makes them blow up.
Try bringing a ressupply backpack
@@anitaremenarova6662 Heavy Machine Gun is really just a Devastator Devastator at the moment. It shreds the more common medium units like a standard MG shreds through fodder
I love how the HMG shreds striders, no matter where you hit them.
i honestly didnt realize that there was different types of pebtration outside of light medium and heavy pen just by the UI in game, this makes ALLOT more sense now, as before i was thinking the heavy machine gun didnt even have a place, but vs bots makes total sense now.
Yeah its a 1-10 scale. There are multiple degrees of each.
yeah, the AP and armor values are both on a scale from 1-10, so there's a lot more wiggle room in there than the game tells you.
All weapons have a ton of stats, such as bullet speed, bullet drop, penetration, perforation which people confuse with penetration and refers to destroying armor and body parts and much more
You can tell when you are doing full damage because the little hit confirmation cross that pops up next to your reticle is red instead of white.
Sadly, the HMG and AMR don't have a third person reticle, so you can't see this.
I main the HMG on Bots. I love it along with the diligence. On 450 rpm you can easily snipe with the HMG standing, even without -recoil armor when you tap the trigger. It also has enough stagger to keept devastators in check. It is not as direct as the autocannon, but also doesn't explode you in melee range. I just love it.
I played a ton of hmg just because it's an HMG but who are you trying to fool mate? It sucks and everyone knows it. Don't try to defend a weapon that desperatly needs a change
“I believe this is the scientific term for it… a metric assload” I’m WHEEZING his accent plus his delivery I’m CACKLING
i was gonna say this very thing! ooh god that line killed me.
This guy could easily explain how to defeat a British bad guy.
Wonderful breakdown. You've actually inspired me to give the heavy MG a try. Combined with a supply pack, it looks like a pretty versatile player in a team of 2-3.
The supply pack is my favorite pairing for the heavy machine gun. It gives you such a fun heavy weapons guy vibe that I fuck with and even though the hmg chews through ammo, a supply pack really makes it a non-issue
I died at the HMG emplacement description! Also love your breakdowns! Please keep them coming!
"The handling of a very reluctant donkey".
Pretty accurate!
Pretty sure indeed that the HMG emplacement has more piercing power, from how it feels that mounted MG can shred striders like nobody's business yet the MG-206 feels like it needs anywhere from 6 to 10 shots per strider. I think its also important to mention that aiming at where the driver is, is very important. I've noted how it can take 3 anti-material rifle shots when shooting where the gun is as opposed to 2 when shooting where the driver is. And this likely has to do with the penetration table again or just accidentally hitting the gun of the strider.
The MG-206's worst problem is not having a third person crosshair (so I can't see the X marker of what im doing to the target) and the first person crosshair rises something fierce and is ofset a lot. I feel I need to aim quite a bit above my target to hit and with the incredible muzzle climb shooting from anything but crouched or prone (with recoil reduction armor) feels highly inaccurate. But the worst is the mag size, I think 100 round mag would help it quite some.
I was thinking about that too - it feels like the HMG Emplacement would deal more penetration given its damage is also significantly higher. Agree on having a little more ammo in the gun!
To be fair, the HMG emplacement would have greater kinetic energy due to it's longer barrels, irl.
This channel is a diamond in a rough. I keep getting fed trash breakdowns and horrible analysis by the greater hell diver community and I am glad I went through that bc it brought me here. Thank you for scratching the itch of good analysis, and great content
I got back to this video after deciding to run supply pack and heavy support. Made me realise that for what I need it, MG-206 might actually be more viable.
Also. Mate. Ive been watching you since Darktide and its criminal how youre still so low on subscribers. You deserve way more for all this work you do.
Holy shit I love the way you talk. Your word choice is very evocative and you've got just the slightest accent that makes me hang on every sentence. I could listen to you talk about anything and I'd enjoy it.
Hahaha what a comment! Thank you!
I love the info! And your description for the HMG emplacement kills me every time. Kudos for your hard work!
I never used it against the bugs, with the bots I find it to be better than the MG-43. It took a while to realize why, though. When you are fighting a patrol, I can reliably destroy a full patrol with the HMG in one mag, but not the MG-43.
The simple reason is, the MG-43 can take 2-3 bullets to take down a grunt/trash unit, while the HMG kills them in one. While the damage per mag is higher with the MG-43, If 3/4 of a bullet damage is wasted to finish off one trash, it's not worth it. Also the MG-43 doesn't stagger at all sometimes., means you will get hit a whole bunch more while firing, And sometimes, It doesn't stop the grunt from calling a drop ship. It pens striders front, So I don't need to throw my impact grenades at them. I also altered the way I walk around the map to go for ammo boxes, removing the need for ammo backpack. It's super good, I love it.
One problem I have with it is the muzzle flash, So first person is not good.
A lot of weapons suffer from flash issues. Would be nice if we got some form of flash suppressor so you can actually see when firing
Excellent experience there, I am the opposite and mostly fight bugs and you have confirmed my suspicion that the HMG is specifically for bots while the MG 43 is for bugs.
Of course you would want stopping power and stagger against bots because they are shooting at you, while of course you want ammo capacity and stability against moving bugs in mass.
Makes perfect sense, but I think we all agree that some kind of buff to the HMG would be nice.
“The handling of a very reluctant donkey” beautifully articulated and accurate af 😂😂😂
Dude, the time and effort put into deducing damage based on so many unknow variables is NEXT FUCKING LEVEL dedication. Thank you for all you do for the community!
This is the first video I've seen from you and I'm already hooked. I really hate how Helldivers 2 refuses to give details on many strategems and especially the strategem equipment. You do an exceptional job at filling in that gaping hole, and give some great tips too.
You definitely deserve more subs. I love the fact that you are doing very descriptive breakdowns and also trying to make everything viable. Or at least trying to give them a place, I really appreciate it. I got a little burnt out on the whole meta community.
OMG, finally someone that understands how armor penetration works, and how important is. Thank you for this detailed analysis
02:52 - bro. I'm dying. That's the best description humanely possible.
The table was definitely worth the work, it's priceless information and I respect your determination of not engaging with data mining. I remember playing The Legend of Zelda: OoT as a kid and working out how much health things had and how much damage weapons did. Of course, that was a bit simpler.
Solid original research and testing.
I took screenshots of your charts. Going to mull those over. I think you're about right, it's a "secondary" weapon to pull out when needed, not to run around with as primary all day.
You're doing some amazing work producing these numbers and guides. Keep it up! I look forward to each of your videos.
I honestly fell in love with this piece of scrap metal. I run it very similar to this, though for the bots I would wear the fortified medium to heavy armor. It does get overwhelmed easily if you aren't careful but the supply pack allows you to take an ammo hungry primary to buy you a reload. I'll have to use the stuns again, but I miss the utility and horde clear of the impacts. I like running 500kg and Railstrike for bugs and changing it to laser for the bots. I like to use the Scorcher, Jar, Breaker, Breaker incendiary, Punisher, and old Slugger with it. I generally run it like a primary and then pull out my usual primary to handle either distant or swarming targets. It does need serious help to make it to the big leagues but it is fun to run it with a team.
7:23. For the lack of reticle, i put transparent tape in the middle of the monitor and use a marker pen on the tape. Old FPS trick.
I’ve legit been waiting for a support weapon with super high damage and terrible ammo. Specifically to take a supply pack and be the heavy weapons guy.
The HMG is unironically what I’ve been waiting for
same, but the recoil it too bad. i can deal with all the other negatives, but why is the recoil so bad even with the armor passive?
@@notanonymous3976 I might be able to deal with the recoil if they would give me a reticle
This video was excellent, I love your method for calculating weapon damage for stratagems.
Your dedication to help other helldiver's is legendary!
No doubt this is the best helldivers 2 detailed info channel!
instant sub. helldivers content that _actually has analysis_ 😂😂😂
What you've stated is exactly right. I've run the HMG as my main since it's release. Though it has its negatives, the damage output as well as the armor penetration is really high. Also, I shoot entirely in 3rd person view. Once you learn how to, you'll find out that managing the aim is much quicker to do than first-person. That being said, you're absolutely right that the gun should not be fired on full-auto regularly. You tap shoot it, which essentially is a short 2-bullet shot burst. Using 750 rpm, you can stabilize your shots. Here's my breakdown on how fast you can drop enemies:
Hulks - 5-8 bursts
Berserkers - 5-7 bursts
Devastators - 4-6 bursts
Shield Devastator - 4-6 bursts
Srriders - 4-6 bursts
Gunship- 5-8 bursts
Others - 1-2 bursts. If they block - 2-4 bursts.
All this requires knowing their weak points.
For bugs, it's similar in enemy difficulty. Except for Chargers. Those you have to shoot off their leg armor as usual.
This is a good breakdown, especially about the Medium II part, but I agree with your closing thoughts that this weapon still isnt good. If it's only real advantage is slightly better AP, why wouldn't I take a more dedicated and flexible AP weapon?
Well, I guess my intuition was spot on with this thing. I've been using the 206 pretty much exactly as you concluded it should be since they added it, including armor passives, grenade type, and backpack stratagem.
So... don't bother and bring an autocannon instead then?
For the most part.. Though mixing it up on bugs is a thing you could do
Autocannon is the goat
It’s just so good
There’s literally no point in bringing anything else
The hmg is is fun if you have the time to set up prone/fortified armor
If they have it a 3rd person reticle it would be much better
Also the 950 rpm is the best by far
It shoots 10-15 shots before the recoil gets too bad
It also has a max recoil so in bursts after the first the following bursts are extremly accurate
Autocannon costs you a backpack slot which isn't ideal against bots.
@@anitaremenarova6662 but the AC can take every bot enemy except the actual tanks from the front.
Autocannon has a third person reticle, which is very important.
And no, you don't need shield pack for bots. Cover and fire superiority.
Yes! Data driven tier lists are my thing, new subscriber.
Oh wow, gotta try this. Was kinda disappointed upon my first use, but now I might try this
The shield generator is a great idea.
...Do you have larger sheets somewhere we can see? Any enemy health info?
Great video! My impressions were you couldn't get much done with the total ammo it had and you essentially needed to run the supply backpack to make it worth it, with it's only saving grace being the 2 mag return per box. Glad to see the glorious tables agree!
I really like the gun it is fun, but I feel like it definitely needs help. It just doesn't bring much to the table when you consider it soft requires a backpack and there are primaries like the Scorcher that can deal with mediums almost as well without having the horrible reload.
I agree with many others, I think it needs to be backpack fed. Maybe like 500 rounds with no reload required? Make it like the wave clear version of the EAT!
Great in-depth analysis!
Really appreciate a video like this, that shows the pros, cons and ideal situations for a weapon. Still likely to leave the HMG at home, but knowing the right circumstance means it might actually hit the field with me.
This is the first video of yours that I've seen, and I'm impressed. Fantastic breakdown of the HMG, and how to use it. Consider me a subscriber now.
Welcome aboard! Glad you liked it!
Thank you for your hard work!
And man, using the primary scope to gauge the sights for the machine gun is so big brain
I'm back here after the recent Patch 01.000.300 which (among other things) simply added a 3rd person reticle to the HMG, and I gotta personally say that the minor inclusion of that reticle has given me a major change in my playstyle _for the better._ No longer do I have to eyeball a few tracers first before knowing where my barrel is aligned when firing in 3rd person, and no longer do I have to deal with the annoyingly large muzzle flashes with every shot in the 1st person misaligned sight dot. I comfortably run the HMG at 750 RPM because now I confidently know where I'm aiming without having to waste some ammo in my already limited magazine size or needing to switch to a gun with a 3rd person sight and then swapping back. I still wish for at least a 100-round drum magazine or a slightly faster reload, but now I'm content with bringing it into 7+ difficulties (along with a supply pack and stuns because those 2 items are just really damn good lol) and not stress about if I'm "contributing" enough to my team
Your in depth breakdown and structured presentation of these videos is awesome and earned a sub man! I'm looking forward to all the guides and analysis you do!
A couple tips for aiming with the 206
While standing, your elbow is pretty much center screen, so line the elbow up with the approaching path and you should be on target. I've turned my reticle off recently because I found myself focusing on lining it up more than I should
While crouched, you zoom in a bit, it's more like the bicep at that point but I generally use half a heads width from the ear to gauge when crouched
It also kicks up to the left when you start firing, so a 3 round burst will go almost dead center but after that you gotta pull down to the right a touch
You can do a 7ish round burst comfortably from crouched with only a slight pull to the right at the end at close to mid range
If you have stalkers present, I'd generally advise you kick the fire rate to max, dive backwards when it beelines you and rip a 10 round burst at it.
The increased stability of being prone generally allows this to be accurate.
Thanks for all of the information! Do you think you could make a video detailing armor penetration, and a table for each weapon? I didn't realize there were multiple tiers of light or medium armor penetration values.
great video, hope you will do a video on all the different values of armor penetration and enemy armor values in the future, i think thats a topic that not enough people are testing and talking about!
Was excited for the HMG, but without being able to accurately engage at long ranges I've just opted to start carrying the HMG Emplacement whenever I can spare it, it can merk anything aside from chargers, titans, and tanks, and I've found it especially helpful with bots as a good bit of stagger and suppressive fire can hold then off and destroy an entire patrol or two.
This was super helpful. Great work
I think a way they could buff it is either doing what everybody else has been saying and give it an ammo backpack, or they could bump its armor penetration up to heavy. It could function as an alternative to the other heavy armor piercers that can be used against crowds but is clunkier than other choices. That way they also don’t have to redesign the model of the gun either. A gun that functions against most enemies, but isn’t the best choice unless you want to be prepared for all enemies. Of course, i don’t really know much about balancing so this might be a terrible idea, but it’s the one i came up with.
How much health does the shield generator has?
My brother, I appreciate your dry sense of humor
Thank you for this video. I was struggling to find the purpose to this gun. Found it worked a bit better than the MG43 but the lack smaller clip size killed it. Appreciate your numbers here. Gonna try it out tonight and verify against those invisible drama queens.
Excellent analysis, thank you.
I think the HMG might need a bit of a buff - but honestly it doesn't need much. A bit better accuracy when prone would be nice in particular, as it seems intended to be used more carefully and in a planned manner - yet even when prone the recoil is too much on average.
I honestly think giving it the 3P crosshair would improve the way the weapon feels greatly without them necessarily needing to change any other aspects of the weapon, because you'd have more confidence to use it and control the recoil without having to "walk" such limited rounds on target. Eliminating the 3P is such a distinctly punishing design choice for such a jumpy weapon with so little ammo. At the same time, it doesn't take much for the HMG to completely usurp the need for an MMG or LMG, so you can't just "give it more ammo"... There'd literally be no reason to take any other MG over the HMG at that point, since the DPS is too impressive. My vote is to give it 85-95 rounds p/drum, and give it the 3P xhair (or _at least_ give it an excellent 1P optic - the current optic feels and looks pretty bad against the muzzleflash of a big bullet).
@@Trepanation21
Honestly, the Stalwart and MG need a buff too. So you might as well buff all their ammo pools at once. They're all outclassed by the arc thrower anyways since that can kill hulks and chargers, too. Hell it can even kill bile titans albeit slowly.
You're videos are super informative, ty my dude
I appreciate the work you do!
I really appreciate this vid. most other vids are just like "It's bad. don't use it." without really giving it a fair shake. I always like to see vids that show how to leverage a gun's individual strengths. what primary do you like to pair with it?
I usually use the slugger with it, but the Sickle is decent choice to pair with it. If dealing with bots, I've been loving the newly buffed Diligence Counter Sniper and the Plas-1 Scorcher. Generally, have something that you use to deal with light armour since this will solve your medium armour problems.
I use the slugger the most because you can't go wrong having more Medium armour pen!
I would use Sickle since this thing is only good against medium targets or the occassional lone charger or hulk.
I noticed piaring it with a weapon with medium armor pen is really good, so you can save the HMG for groups of medium armored enemies. My favorite is Lib. Pen. so individual mediums you dont have to use the precious HMG ammo on.
You have reload a ton with this weapon and as you said this just multiplies the glacial slow reload since you will be reloading more often. It at least needs a .5 seconds off its reload time. Really a full second if they refuse to give us third person aiming, which I understood on the AMR since its a precision rifle but i dont see the connection for this one not having it also.
i love this video, you gave me new insight on how to use this thing. i really wanted to love this weapon but i very similar experiences to you where in pretty much every situation i tried to use it in i wished i had an autocannon instead.
i thought with its extra penetration it would be a bot killer but i felt the autocannon comparison strongest when fighting them. bugs i felt the mags were too shallow even when relying on my primary. i think the stuns are a good idea i never thought about.
next time i play against bugs ill try 500kg, cluster, hmg, ammo backpack, with stuns. stuns+eagle 500kg might be the move to have a more reliable answer to chargers, but bile titans might be more of a challenge but if that’s the case i can always try bringing a laser or orbital strike instead of the backpack or cluster
Bravo! What a detailed and improved video, please keep going!
Love the video analysis , I would love to see the machine guns get a buff. My two biggest issues with the HMG is the recoil and the mag capacity.
I wanna keep going brrrrrrr
the issue with support weapons like this is that their niche is covered by some primary weapons. If I want a gun that can deal with medium armoured enemies then I'll just use a jar-5 dominator or a slugger or any other medium armour pen weapon. they are sufficient to deal with devastators, hive guards, brood commanders and so on. then I can save my support slot for an anti tank weapon, or If I really want to specialise in medium armour pen then the autocannon or antimaterial rifle is better. Very good video btw, most detailed analysis I've seen of this game.
Didnt know there were multiple levels to the armor penetration. Ive been using the HMG and loving it, and now i know why. Great vid.
I like it a lot when paired with the supply backpack, giving you a total of eleven mags if you don't share, while also refilling your grenades and stims. If you set it to the lowest fire rate it still melts devastators while having a much more reasonable recoil, especially with the right armor passive. Use the higher fire rate in bursts if you have a weak spot in sight and you'll be able to dispatch tanks and hulks quite effectively. It's a great weapon if you build around it a bit.
Fantastic video, and I eagerly await the video on the shield testing.
In the interim, I'm impatient and was trying to replicate myself, but seem to be getting some inconsistent results.
Would it be too much to ask for some highlights? Estimated HP and or Armor Value? Do you need to get the shield to drop and then let it come back, then shoot that until it retreats?
Edit: nevermind, did more testing and got consistent results. Didn't realize the shield only stays up for 30 seconds, but if you do ~4200 it will power down for a bit.
I was firing too slow.
interesting! I had written it off completely, but now I am curious to give these tips a try. doubt I'd bring it on difficulties 7+, but might be fun to use on 4-6 runs
I've been using it to take down hulks. It can tear the arms off and absolutely shreds if hitting the weak area on the rear. And if you turn it on its slowest ROF, you can use it almost like a DMR but without the scope.
Just make sure you bring the B1 supply pack
Very helpful guide, thanks for this! Do you have any plans to address the game's plasma weapons?
I've been helldiving for nearly a decade now, and can solo max level content in both games. All that to say, this is excellent analysis and presentation.
Arrowhead is pretty good at balancing, so I knew it was likely I was missing something with how lackluster this gun felt. Think the main thing is the fact the gun is shooting really low which drastically impacts how well it performs.
Great job for giving us numbers. Greatly Appreciated !
It's my pleasure!
you and cash crop are the best with your analysis for games like darktide and helldivers. you guys are basically making the field manual for the game.
it’s a shame that despite weapons having like 30 stats the game refuses to show them.
Brilliant analysis. Well delivered.
I was using the HMG emplacement earlier and I really liked it. Though I don’t see ANYONE use it.The only things that I feel could make it more approachable for other players would be either a front facing armor plate to protect the user or a sight for ADS
Always glad to have another option. Seems like they could solve the ammo vs OP balance by making some kind of setup mandatory, such as having to deploy a bipod, or having to shoot from crouch or prone.
They could also reduce mobility / speed / stamina recovery while carrying.
That could offset increased ammo capacity for a real suppressive fire use case, which is how we’re all wanting to use this I think.
I absolutely needed this video. Thank you for all of your hard work !
Glad it was helpful!
@rykenxiv how much hp does the shield have?
From the AH ceo there is also damage fall off so you got additional things to check. (they probably also have different muzzle velocity at different env effect to also affect the damage drop off. )
@rykenxiv , can attest to backpack and stun grenade combo. Combo is versatile, great for saving team mates and self when overrun. Great to see the HMG get some love, as it is the wife's favorite support weapon. :)
Good vid, agree with everything. I would harp a bit more on the tap fire aspect. Tap fire at 950 and close range is a delete button. Also note that when ads aim below the red dot as it doesn't actually line up. I main it at this point.
They should give it a larger 3rd person reticle when crouched showing approximate bullet position and the normal reticle when prone and remain no reticle when standing to lend to the unwieldy nature it mentions better than having no reticle at all. The couple time I used it I either estimated where I was shooting and adjusted or just ads. The other thing is add some team load, stabilization activity another diver can come and help with or something else to make it more useful/fun.
I love this guy. So detailed, killer accent.
I'm an MG user, I quite like them against bugs, but I couldn't get the MG-206 to work for me against either bugs or bots. After unlocking the devastator I've found that far more useful for the medium armor bugs and just keep the Stalwart as my "primary" with the devastator as my backup worked very well. Pair it with whatever backpack you want, supplies if you are worried about ammo, and go to town on most bugs. You will need a teammate with a good heavy armor counter, or maybe bring EATs if you want.
That being said great guide to the weapon! Once I unlock that nade I will give it a try again, and use it as a "backup" against medium and higher bugs.
This is very helpful! I think I'll try stun grenades to deal with chargers with a recoilless rifle too, once I unlock it, and I think I'll be able to deal with other stuff that requires grenades, like bug holes, with the grenade pistol. Thank you!
I brought this HMG into a game against the bugs and I couldn't justify using it.
Either my primary flame shotgun took care of the problem, or when a charger showed up I used something else. Since the HMG would just bounce off if not shooting in the back.
If it had 100 rounds, an extra mag, and other fixes like sight alignment. it'd be worth using more.
Although a minigun backpack would have also been more fun even if it might not be 'optimal/meta' it'd be fun
Great channel with insightful content!
The hip fire crosshair is bugged and doesnt always show up on some weapons. All weapons are capable of having one though, as a hipfire crosshair will sometimes inexplicably appear.
Did you factor in the regeneration rate of the shield health against the rate of fire for the weapon being tested? Weapons with a lower rate of fire are going to appear to do less damage per shot because the shield is constantly regenerating health. If you're time between shots / reloads wasn't consistent, that would throw off your results too.
Indeed! my numbers are very, very close to datamined numbers even before we had them unearthed!
Thank you 👍 Great review! Correct me if I am wrong. All those things you mentioned regarding heavy machine gun armour penetration like hulk front panel and gunships, regular machine gun can't do. Is it correct?