That goddamn side glance before "maybe that's not a bad thing." This bitch suddenly hit by the realisation bus that just sitting and talking IS something he'd rather do than bed someone again. Just confide or talk a night away. Hells, I am weeping.
I can't it's so weird to see them two together and the scene is so deliciously awkward and I love Astarion giving up and admitting he has no idea how to approach her and them getting annoyed and roasting each other but still staying sweet. This scene is too perfect
The fact that Karlach wants to talk then fall asleep next to astarion reminds me of Astarion’s “and I want to wake up next to a handsome virgin every morning” line. He’s finally getting what he dreams of haha
This scene has actually many inetersting dev notes that give excellent insight into Astarion's character. For example: "AStarion's mask as the flippant libertine is cracking a bit here. He's frustrated but vulnerable here. Because he can't physically seduce or touch Karlach, his usual means of interacting with a person is punctured. He's faced with the reality that he might not know how to handle a situation where he can't bite or seduce his way to the finish line" "Masking defensiveness with offensiveness. In truth he really does want what Karlach is offering (to just hang out without having sex) but now that it's within grasp he's floundering." "Being mean-spirited in an attempt to drive Karlach away, even though he doesn't actually want to do that."
Fun fact but people who do that are often testing the person they're being mean to, to see how quickly they'll lose their patience and leave or turn on them. Which isn't to say it's not abusive and toxic behaviour, nor that it's a trait that should be indulged, but in the mind of the person doing it (in this case Astarion) it makes sense. The fact that he insults Karlach and laughs at her isn't so much him trying to hurt her, as him expressing discomfort as best he can whilst testing if she's going to be quick to go on the offensive in return. Also worth noting the testing is often subconscious, and the person doing it won't realize that's what they did until later. In other words, he's seeking reassurance, which is something we see him do a lot when he feels vulnerable, but rarely directly. I love it.
I wish we can also have the option to offer to just talk through the night with Astarion instead of being required to have sex with him. Yes, Tav/Durge doesn't have the same reason as Karlach, but it'd be really nice, not only as a pleasant shock to Astarion, but for those roleplaying/are the type that wouldn't immediately accept a sexual proposition so fast.
What really hit me in the feels: "He's feeling vulnerable, but sees this might be a chance to feel safe." --> Feeling safe because sex is off the table "subtext here is on the slowing down. That IS what he wants." --> It's what he wants, even in other playthroughs, but he pushes it aside. I just wish so much there was a way to romance him without sleeping with him. It's just so clear that he doesn't want it and is forcing himself to do it. Even if it's just the option to tell him 'I care for you' at Moonrise if you flirted with him enough. But I don't think Larian will ever give us that option :(
@@Louves192 oh hi again xD I was about to respond with a lengthy something about why it makes sense and autonomy and all that good stuff then I realized it was you and figured you've probably already heard it from me lol, we keep meeting like this.
@@bearhugzfam649 Oh hello there, long time no see x) Don't mind me, I am just sad I have to go through a sex scene that both parties don't enjoy just to get to the good part. I agree, his arc makes sense and is very well written. I just wish there was an alternative way to get there, because I would like to roleplay a character who also has a bad relationship with sexuality. Have a heartfelt talk. Would be a nice bonding moment, but maybe that's something reserved for a real dnd session and not a video game. The player avatar doesn't really have much agency in the relationships. It feels so strange that you can only outright reject him or go through with it :/
Wait... is this... the healthiest relationship for them both? Astarion has so much trauma with sex he often jumps into faking through things and assumes the literal worst as a defensive mechanism. He often feels like he's being treated like a prostitute and has a hard time connecting with people genuinely because of it. If given the option, he prefers no sex but will do it because he feels obligated. Karlach literally cannot touch other people without burning them to death. They both wish for intimacy but can't because of their own situations.... Setting them up with one another lets them have genuine emotional intimacy. By the time Karlach's condition is resolved, Astarion is closer to being ok with things again and them being together would be genuinely mutual on both sides. Sorry Tav, this is too wholesome. The canon says what it says, I'm a chronic canon player.
To be fair, astarion claimed he slept with tav for protection in the beginning but if he hated/disliked tav, he rejects and laughs at tav for the notion. He dislikes it if you reject him when he does offers himself. He loves it if you offer your neck during the encounter, tending to his needs as a vampire spawn and giving him power and control in the situation. With tav hes slowly processing his trauma and boundaries, romancing him with karlach it kinda forces him to realize that theres more than just sex in a relationship. Both situations are valuable
@@Ihazfunkitty I can see where you're coming from, though in Act 1, much of Astarion's approval is gained from you standing up for him/not rejecting him for what he is/ and not shitting on those generally assumed to be monsters. Yes, you can get some approval from being a jerk because he thinks it's funny, but most of the approval is from demonstrating that you're not someone who's likely to stab him in the back, or sell him out. That's... kinda how most people expect most people to be, but he's HEAVILY traumatized and that hasn't been his reality. He'll reject you if he doesn't trust you/ see value in you, but will engage if he's neutral. Him seeing Tav as someone who's not going to be overtly shitty to him, but rather someone who can be emotionally manipulated into being more protective of him is still a thing. It's the overt text he gives you, and apart of him outright admitting that was his intent. He grows closer to Tav despite that. Astarion wants power and control because he hasn't had it and is terrified he'll be abused if he doesn't have that over others in return. He outright admits he used sex as a way to manipulate you, because he felt he had to. Tav and him don't really have sex much after that once he realizes it's not something he has to do. Yes, he grows to love Tav, but, I don't think it's as meaningful as with Karlach based on that context. He knows he can't use his unhealthy coping mechanisms with her, not because she'll reject him, but.... because they can't. Yet, without him manipulating her in that way, she stays. Astarion kind of hates himself despite the performance, and I think there is something important in Karlach wanting him for him, and not his body for him based in that trauma. Their relationship isn't transactional in sex, or in blood. She's there because she wants to be for him as a person, not him as a resource. Personally, that feels more genuine, but your mileage may vary.
@@thatsrealroughbud...2394i think their libidos would be incredibly incompatible once she can actually touch him though lol that woman genuinely would hump 24/7 if she could
This is one of my favorite parings that and shadowheart and halsin. I think karlack is a default leader if tav doesn’t exist. Shes the most stable person in any situation (unless demon related) and she says what she means. Wyll makes a good second in command. Sometimes he’s a bit too blinded by his ideals to see what’s best. Same with lea’zel, she could make a good second in command. She’s a great problem solver but her ignorance holds her back. In my game I always play her and gale on my squad. They compliment each other game wise and gale seems genuine in his interest in her life. They would make good life long friends.
I highly wish it's also an option with Tav/Durge to be able to still romance him without being required to have sex so fast. It wouldn't be entirely out of place, and it'll still be on-theme for his character arc too. What if you're roleplaying/are the type of person who has similar trauma/ not one to just accept sexual propositions immediately?
Especially durge that lost their memories and are having murderous thoughts, it's so off to me this sex scene for both of them Yk i want to say "just sit you 2 and talk, your bitches have similar past and traumas"
exactly. i want him to know that tav sees him for more than just his body. like let us help him heal, dammit. a slow burn would have been perfect. ALSO, the fact that we can't hug any of them the same way that we're able to kiss them is CRIMINAL.
@@Vixorel Agreed. You can romance Astarion with Karlach as Origin, but it's due to her infernal engine that not even a touch happened between them that night. They just talked. He was an ass while being frustrated that he can't perform the only thing he knows, but apologizes and ends up enjoying their date. Even the devnotes say so. I wish to be able to... y'know, get to know each other more- not to the point of quickly sharing deep secrets so early, but just stuff like hobbies, interests, and whatnot.
@@oceanicGrimalkin right! i wanna get to know him and deepen our connection so that he gets to a point where he’s like. wow. I’m loved. And I would love for him to learn what love actually is/feels like and be able to realize that he loves tav. he deserves eternal happiness 😭
Wish we could have this option as Tav, bc after knowing my dude's backstory i felt really bad that he felt the need to sell his body when he didn't need to or want to
The fact that he did already bedded my Tav twice in act 1 makes this even more interesting, in a way his true to his words. Also props to Larian! They really thought of everything! I can tell the work 24/7 for the last 4yrs just to make this game as amazing as it is! And they’re not even done yet. ❤ they’re amazing
this is so interesting!! thank you for sharing, i had never really thought about how different this scene would be while playing as her. knowing what i know now about his intentions during this night i really wish you had the same option to convince him not to have sex without turning the offer down altogether ;-;
Gods damn it, why couldn't my asexual Tav have had this option??? Got locked into the friend-route with him just for respecting both our boundaries, when I actually did want a romance.
Yea, bit disappointing. We need more ace rep. I would be so nice to have a dialog with him that you are flattered but it's not really your thing when he propositions you :( It would make him feel much safer with Tav too. From the dev notes you can kinda read between the lines that he offers himself to you because he is scared to get assaulted if he doesn't... (my interpretation I should add)
Thissss like technically the only character you can have a sexless romance with IS Karlach and while she’s not upset by just wanting to cuddle, it would make a lot of sense for Astarion’s background too, arguably the most understanding 🥲
Right!? It would make so much sense for Astarion to want an ace partner, too. I don't even care if it takes longer to romance him because he has to deal with this huge shift in autonomy, I just want it to happen!!
seems like, my tav kissed him during the dancing scene but cut it short there. he looked like a kicked puppy, alas, but tav has kissed him like 80 times since then so he surely doesn't mind That much haha (disclaimer I haven't finished the game yet)
'why couldn't i do this with tav' you're missing the point of his character romance arc. he's SEDUCING you to his corner to manipulate you and he does that by fucking you and making you fall in love with him. That's what he's done for 200 years, it's what he knows - and he doesn't realize until later AFTER things have become complicated - he has feelings for you. Karlach wants to be touched but she quite literally can't - he knows she wants him but he can't use waht he's known on her. He's never been in this situation before and it's frustrating. If Tav rejected him for sex, he would literally just move onto his next target without a thought. It wouldn't be the same.
If you sleep with Astarion, then sleep with Karlach, Astarion will say something along the lines of "I don't mind sharing, but be careful with Karlach, you'll break her heart"
Yeah! His dialogue if you're in romance routes with both of them and get to the point of having to choose one is SHOCKINGLY mature and compassionate. When he asked if this would be the end of our "trysts" I suggested we could continue (since Karlach also mentioned before she didn't mind sharing - I wasn't sure if that'd still be the case now that she had her engine fixed though), and he straight up told me that even though healthy relationships aren't his expertise, if they did that they'd be risking breaking someone's heart, and Karlach has been through too much and should be treated more gently than that. And while he might have his own personal reasons for wanting to cut things off at that point... he's right tbh, Karlach is clearly hesitant and afraid of losing you if you bring up feelings for another open/polyam companion. She lets you, since she wants you to be happy, but... imo it feels risky, like I'm going to hurt her. He's a lot wiser and kinder than he gives himself credit for. Cares a lot more than he wants to admit, too
Man, honestly I don't see chemistry with the two of them (more of a Karlach x Wyll and Astarion x Tav person) but I really like this path of Astarion not being able to sleep with the main protag, it adds so much depth to his story and I wish Tav was able to do this! Finally Astarion has found a target he views vital to sway for his own survival but its impossible to use his normal methods to get what he wants, so how does he lure the main protagonist in with just honeyed words and no sex? AAAAAAAA I WANT IT FOR REGULAR TAV SO BADLY
Astarion gets pretty mean with Karlach. It's really clear why he could never accept a non sexual interest from Tav, at least in Act I. He's working under the assumption that Karlach does want to have sex with him, that's comfortable and familiar territory for him. Even so, not being able to engage with her sexually frustrates and scared him despite that being outside of her control. But if Tav holds back sexually than it's intentional and he'd just have no idea what to do with that. It feels unfamiliar and therefore unsafe. Tav has no reason not to have sex with him so in his mind he must be doing something wrong and his plan and his control is falling apart. To have a non sexual night together he needs an outside force to intervene. He just can't feel safe with Tav in a non sexual romantic relationship, at least at first. He needs to be in control, he doesn't need any curve balls thrown at him. Go along, give him what he wants. He can trust he's actually safe with you unless he feels he's succeeded at manipulating you, used his own skills to secure a place at your side. He's lost without that control. The vulnerability can come later, when he's ready, instead of when circumstances force it upon him like in the Karlach romance.
He gets mean but he apologizes right after that. He does not want to hurt her, he is just frustrated. Despite this he still enjoys the situation. I see your points. But what many people have a problem with is that Tav might have valid reasons to not engage with him but the game does not even consider the posibility. The player has no agency in the romance, which is questionable because Astarion has a huge following of people who can relate to having a difficult relationship with sexuality. Completely locking the player out of the romance by simply declining his advances once seems almost silly. Starting the romance in act 2 in a non-sexual way would be a good alternative imo. In the end he falls for Tav because they are kind to him, protected him, don't see him as a monster and offer emotional support, not because they rolled around in the dirt that one night after a party.
@@Louves192 Yeah, I think being able to start the romance in Act II makes much more sense than non sexually starting it in Act I. It didn't really occur to me because oh my god adding that into the game would be so much work. I'm sympathetic to your point about the player character's agency, I'm one of those people who relate to him because of his history with a lack of agency. But at the end of the day the player has all the agency, even if the character doesn't. As a narrative device, I find it incredibly powerful to be required to give into Astarion and play into *his* plan, the story *he's* deliberately building to seduce Tav, in order to get the outcome you want. And, hey, in real life, sometimes you miss your chance to be with someone if you can't be with them they way they want you to. Maybe it's just not on Astarion's mind anymore once you've turned him down and he comes to feel secure with out your interest in him. It's a hint of disempowerment. Going into it not knowing his history, it's an incredibly powerful moment. The player is required to commit to him before they know he's manipulating them and why. As a story, I value that. I wouldn't want it changed. But I do understand where others are coming from, wishing they could tell a different story. At the end of the day, there are only so many paths a video game or a choose your own adventure novel can take. It's simply the limit to the medium. The developers wrote this story for us, and are inviting us to follow our own path through that story. The player's aren't the ones playing it. I find that to be wonderful.
Never having played as a companion origin character... This feels like an alternative universe where parent Tav isn't there to parent their adoptive companion kids. So I'm glad the kids can take care of each other ❤
Based on everything I've seen of Astarian, when I eventually play this game, I'm going to fucking *hate* him. But he's going to be the sort of guy I *love* to hate.
Who knows, you might be surprised. I went into the game confident I was going to loathe the tropey fanservice vampire, yet by midway through the game Astarion was my favorite of the lot.
I went into the game thinking that he was either going to be a decent character that got blown out of proportion and is annoying with how prevalent he was, or he was going to be a piece of shit everyone woobified. It turns out, the answer was both, but somehow those things cancel each other out and I can actually enjoy him as a character XD he's a shithead but he's my boo
I went into the game with no idea who he was (I avoid spoilers like a vampire avoids the sun lol) but immediately disliked him. I found him annoying and honestly a little anxiety inducing because of how much he masks and how hard he is to read, and I still do indeed find him annoying and hard to read xD but there's another person in there under the mask who... IDK if I like them, honestly I don't know them, that's kind of the point. But fuck me if it isn't well written. I think that's the point. I don't like Astarion, but I love how well crafted he is as a character.
i tried from Astarion's POV, he can go to hell with Karlach! There are also datamined epilogue lines by Withers where he says something along the lines of "Astarion fought with Karlach in hell, she for survival, he for more power" if you have ascended Astarion :D
@@Hiyorin871 The only way to go with Karlach to Avernus while playing as Astarion is to ascend him. Since he does not fear the sun anymore, he is able to pursue the same scene that Tav has. HOWEVER, it is very out of character for him, in my opinion. But since you plays him, you can influence his choices and make the character do things he would normally not do. That's why I personnally take the Withers epilogue as some sort of adjustement in case the player is Ascended Astarion, but I really don't think it should be taken for canon. If he's a spawn, he has to run away from the sun, same as in the regular ending with Tav, and he'll never get to see Karlach again. That's why I'd recommand playing as Karlach and romance him as her, because the ending you'll get will be VERY different. Here's, it's the opposite. It's impossible for Ascended Astarion to go with Karlach to Avernus: He'll dump her as soon as he'll understand he can't turn her into a spawn due to her "burning" condition, calling her doomed and defective. Apparently, even if her engine is fixed. Imo, that's how the real Ascended Astarion would treat her for real. BUT if he remains a Spawn, in the epilogue, he'll convince her to let him go with her to Avernus in a very sweet custscene, where he says that life is what you make it and that he want to make his with her, that in Avernus he wouldn't have to fear the sun, be able to kill as much as he wants, and that he could spend all of his time with the one person he wants to be with.
you can get the same scene, but it will either turn into a sex scene or you turning him down. like 80% of the dialogue here is completely unique to Karlach.
@@YouLikeKrabbyPattiesDontYou I understand but it goes both ways. I’m not diminishing the pain a person in that situation is suffering yet I cannot condone their bad actions. Playing with someone’s feelings is wrong. Yes I get it at one point he had no choice, but with tav he did
Its cute but Karlach and Astarion would never work the ending with them makes clear they dont fit doesnt matter if ascended or not ascended astarion. Karlach and wyll i can see and even minthara with her but astarion nope.
![Astarion X Tav - Part 8 [Baldur's Gate 3 Animatic]](/img/n.gif)
That goddamn side glance before "maybe that's not a bad thing."
This bitch suddenly hit by the realisation bus that just sitting and talking IS something he'd rather do than bed someone again. Just confide or talk a night away.
Hells, I am weeping.
I can't it's so weird to see them two together and the scene is so deliciously awkward and I love Astarion giving up and admitting he has no idea how to approach her and them getting annoyed and roasting each other but still staying sweet. This scene is too perfect
The fact that Karlach wants to talk then fall asleep next to astarion reminds me of Astarion’s “and I want to wake up next to a handsome virgin every morning” line. He’s finally getting what he dreams of haha
I absolutely cant get over how Unique this all is with those 2 as a ship. Im even jealous a little
This scene has actually many inetersting dev notes that give excellent insight into Astarion's character. For example:
"AStarion's mask as the flippant libertine is cracking a bit here. He's frustrated but vulnerable here. Because he can't physically seduce or touch Karlach, his usual means of interacting with a person is punctured. He's faced with the reality that he might not know how to handle a situation where he can't bite or seduce his way to the
finish line"
"Masking defensiveness with offensiveness. In truth he really does want what Karlach is offering (to just hang out without having sex) but now that it's within grasp he's floundering."
"Being mean-spirited in an attempt to drive Karlach away, even though he doesn't actually want to do that."
Fun fact but people who do that are often testing the person they're being mean to, to see how quickly they'll lose their patience and leave or turn on them. Which isn't to say it's not abusive and toxic behaviour, nor that it's a trait that should be indulged, but in the mind of the person doing it (in this case Astarion) it makes sense. The fact that he insults Karlach and laughs at her isn't so much him trying to hurt her, as him expressing discomfort as best he can whilst testing if she's going to be quick to go on the offensive in return. Also worth noting the testing is often subconscious, and the person doing it won't realize that's what they did until later.
In other words, he's seeking reassurance, which is something we see him do a lot when he feels vulnerable, but rarely directly. I love it.
I wish we can also have the option to offer to just talk through the night with Astarion instead of being required to have sex with him. Yes, Tav/Durge doesn't have the same reason as Karlach, but it'd be really nice, not only as a pleasant shock to Astarion, but for those roleplaying/are the type that wouldn't immediately accept a sexual proposition so fast.
What really hit me in the feels:
"He's feeling vulnerable, but sees this might be a chance to feel safe." --> Feeling safe because sex is off the table
"subtext here is on the slowing down. That IS what he wants." --> It's what he wants, even in other playthroughs, but he pushes it aside.
I just wish so much there was a way to romance him without sleeping with him. It's just so clear that he doesn't want it and is forcing himself to do it. Even if it's just the option to tell him 'I care for you' at Moonrise if you flirted with him enough. But I don't think Larian will ever give us that option :(
@@Louves192 oh hi again xD I was about to respond with a lengthy something about why it makes sense and autonomy and all that good stuff then I realized it was you and figured you've probably already heard it from me lol, we keep meeting like this.
@@bearhugzfam649 Oh hello there, long time no see x) Don't mind me, I am just sad I have to go through a sex scene that both parties don't enjoy just to get to the good part.
I agree, his arc makes sense and is very well written. I just wish there was an alternative way to get there, because I would like to roleplay a character who also has a bad relationship with sexuality. Have a heartfelt talk. Would be a nice bonding moment, but maybe that's something reserved for a real dnd session and not a video game. The player avatar doesn't really have much agency in the relationships. It feels so strange that you can only outright reject him or go through with it :/
Oh my gosh I love this. Since Astarion is technically undead and his body is cold, having karlach being so warm is such a cute contrast.
Wait... is this... the healthiest relationship for them both? Astarion has so much trauma with sex he often jumps into faking through things and assumes the literal worst as a defensive mechanism. He often feels like he's being treated like a prostitute and has a hard time connecting with people genuinely because of it. If given the option, he prefers no sex but will do it because he feels obligated.
Karlach literally cannot touch other people without burning them to death.
They both wish for intimacy but can't because of their own situations....
Setting them up with one another lets them have genuine emotional intimacy. By the time Karlach's condition is resolved, Astarion is closer to being ok with things again and them being together would be genuinely mutual on both sides.
Sorry Tav, this is too wholesome. The canon says what it says, I'm a chronic canon player.
To be fair, astarion claimed he slept with tav for protection in the beginning but if he hated/disliked tav, he rejects and laughs at tav for the notion. He dislikes it if you reject him when he does offers himself. He loves it if you offer your neck during the encounter, tending to his needs as a vampire spawn and giving him power and control in the situation.
With tav hes slowly processing his trauma and boundaries, romancing him with karlach it kinda forces him to realize that theres more than just sex in a relationship.
Both situations are valuable
@@Ihazfunkitty I can see where you're coming from, though in Act 1, much of Astarion's approval is gained from you standing up for him/not rejecting him for what he is/ and not shitting on those generally assumed to be monsters.
Yes, you can get some approval from being a jerk because he thinks it's funny, but most of the approval is from demonstrating that you're not someone who's likely to stab him in the back, or sell him out. That's... kinda how most people expect most people to be, but he's HEAVILY traumatized and that hasn't been his reality. He'll reject you if he doesn't trust you/ see value in you, but will engage if he's neutral.
Him seeing Tav as someone who's not going to be overtly shitty to him, but rather someone who can be emotionally manipulated into being more protective of him is still a thing. It's the overt text he gives you, and apart of him outright admitting that was his intent. He grows closer to Tav despite that.
Astarion wants power and control because he hasn't had it and is terrified he'll be abused if he doesn't have that over others in return. He outright admits he used sex as a way to manipulate you, because he felt he had to. Tav and him don't really have sex much after that once he realizes it's not something he has to do.
Yes, he grows to love Tav, but, I don't think it's as meaningful as with Karlach based on that context.
He knows he can't use his unhealthy coping mechanisms with her, not because she'll reject him, but.... because they can't. Yet, without him manipulating her in that way, she stays. Astarion kind of hates himself despite the performance, and I think there is something important in Karlach wanting him for him, and not his body for him based in that trauma. Their relationship isn't transactional in sex, or in blood. She's there because she wants to be for him as a person, not him as a resource. Personally, that feels more genuine, but your mileage may vary.
@@thatsrealroughbud...2394i think their libidos would be incredibly incompatible once she can actually touch him though lol that woman genuinely would hump 24/7 if she could
Is it? I would think Karlach and Wyll would be a healthier match
This is one of my favorite parings that and shadowheart and halsin. I think karlack is a default leader if tav doesn’t exist. Shes the most stable person in any situation (unless demon related) and she says what she means. Wyll makes a good second in command. Sometimes he’s a bit too blinded by his ideals to see what’s best. Same with lea’zel, she could make a good second in command. She’s a great problem solver but her ignorance holds her back. In my game I always play her and gale on my squad. They compliment each other game wise and gale seems genuine in his interest in her life. They would make good life long friends.
I highly wish it's also an option with Tav/Durge to be able to still romance him without being required to have sex so fast. It wouldn't be entirely out of place, and it'll still be on-theme for his character arc too. What if you're roleplaying/are the type of person who has similar trauma/ not one to just accept sexual propositions immediately?
Especially durge that lost their memories and are having murderous thoughts, it's so off to me this sex scene for both of them
Yk i want to say "just sit you 2 and talk, your bitches have similar past and traumas"
@@meisha2614 Yeah ._.
exactly. i want him to know that tav sees him for more than just his body. like let us help him heal, dammit. a slow burn would have been perfect. ALSO, the fact that we can't hug any of them the same way that we're able to kiss them is CRIMINAL.
@@Vixorel Agreed. You can romance Astarion with Karlach as Origin, but it's due to her infernal engine that not even a touch happened between them that night. They just talked. He was an ass while being frustrated that he can't perform the only thing he knows, but apologizes and ends up enjoying their date. Even the devnotes say so.
I wish to be able to... y'know, get to know each other more- not to the point of quickly sharing deep secrets so early, but just stuff like hobbies, interests, and whatnot.
@@oceanicGrimalkin right! i wanna get to know him and deepen our connection so that he gets to a point where he’s like. wow. I’m loved. And I would love for him to learn what love actually is/feels like and be able to realize that he loves tav. he deserves eternal happiness 😭
Wish we could have this option as Tav, bc after knowing my dude's backstory i felt really bad that he felt the need to sell his body when he didn't need to or want to
I just noticed Astarion was basking in the sun after the night of intimacy because it had been 200 years since he last got to
shiiiiiit I didn't think of that. I was wondering why he was T posing in the sun
The fact that he did already bedded my Tav twice in act 1 makes this even more interesting, in a way his true to his words. Also props to Larian! They really thought of everything! I can tell the work 24/7 for the last 4yrs just to make this game as amazing as it is! And they’re not even done yet. ❤ they’re amazing
*sigh* I guess I need to start ANOTHER playthrough now 😂
RIP
F
Karlach absolutely slays in the Drow outfit.
this is so interesting!! thank you for sharing, i had never really thought about how different this scene would be while playing as her. knowing what i know now about his intentions during this night i really wish you had the same option to convince him not to have sex without turning the offer down altogether ;-;
It's adorable and make me regret even more we can't ask for a night of chat with Tav
Gods damn it, why couldn't my asexual Tav have had this option??? Got locked into the friend-route with him just for respecting both our boundaries, when I actually did want a romance.
Aces need love, too! =(
Yea, bit disappointing. We need more ace rep. I would be so nice to have a dialog with him that you are flattered but it's not really your thing when he propositions you :(
It would make him feel much safer with Tav too. From the dev notes you can kinda read between the lines that he offers himself to you because he is scared to get assaulted if he doesn't... (my interpretation I should add)
Thissss like technically the only character you can have a sexless romance with IS Karlach and while she’s not upset by just wanting to cuddle, it would make a lot of sense for Astarion’s background too, arguably the most understanding 🥲
Right!? It would make so much sense for Astarion to want an ace partner, too. I don't even care if it takes longer to romance him because he has to deal with this huge shift in autonomy, I just want it to happen!!
seems like, my tav kissed him during the dancing scene but cut it short there. he looked like a kicked puppy, alas, but tav has kissed him like 80 times since then so he surely doesn't mind That much haha (disclaimer I haven't finished the game yet)
'why couldn't i do this with tav' you're missing the point of his character romance arc. he's SEDUCING you to his corner to manipulate you and he does that by fucking you and making you fall in love with him. That's what he's done for 200 years, it's what he knows - and he doesn't realize until later AFTER things have become complicated - he has feelings for you. Karlach wants to be touched but she quite literally can't - he knows she wants him but he can't use waht he's known on her. He's never been in this situation before and it's frustrating. If Tav rejected him for sex, he would literally just move onto his next target without a thought. It wouldn't be the same.
And YOU'RE missing the point of why people are asking
If you sleep with Astarion, then sleep with Karlach, Astarion will say something along the lines of "I don't mind sharing, but be careful with Karlach, you'll break her heart"
Yeah! His dialogue if you're in romance routes with both of them and get to the point of having to choose one is SHOCKINGLY mature and compassionate.
When he asked if this would be the end of our "trysts" I suggested we could continue (since Karlach also mentioned before she didn't mind sharing - I wasn't sure if that'd still be the case now that she had her engine fixed though), and he straight up told me that even though healthy relationships aren't his expertise, if they did that they'd be risking breaking someone's heart, and Karlach has been through too much and should be treated more gently than that.
And while he might have his own personal reasons for wanting to cut things off at that point... he's right tbh, Karlach is clearly hesitant and afraid of losing you if you bring up feelings for another open/polyam companion. She lets you, since she wants you to be happy, but... imo it feels risky, like I'm going to hurt her.
He's a lot wiser and kinder than he gives himself credit for. Cares a lot more than he wants to admit, too
Help?...
He absolutely can't handle that😂
Thats funny and tradic at the same time, if u know his story.
Could you record Astarion confession scene with Karlach origin? I bet it has a lot of new dialogue
That's... a really, really, REALLY interesting development !
Wtf this conversations felt so real and wtf i wished companions can say your name cause omg😫😫😩
Man, honestly I don't see chemistry with the two of them (more of a Karlach x Wyll and Astarion x Tav person) but I really like this path of Astarion not being able to sleep with the main protag, it adds so much depth to his story and I wish Tav was able to do this! Finally Astarion has found a target he views vital to sway for his own survival but its impossible to use his normal methods to get what he wants, so how does he lure the main protagonist in with just honeyed words and no sex?
AAAAAAAA I WANT IT FOR REGULAR TAV SO BADLY
Astarion gets pretty mean with Karlach. It's really clear why he could never accept a non sexual interest from Tav, at least in Act I.
He's working under the assumption that Karlach does want to have sex with him, that's comfortable and familiar territory for him.
Even so, not being able to engage with her sexually frustrates and scared him despite that being outside of her control.
But if Tav holds back sexually than it's intentional and he'd just have no idea what to do with that.
It feels unfamiliar and therefore unsafe. Tav has no reason not to have sex with him so in his mind he must be doing something wrong and his plan and his control is falling apart.
To have a non sexual night together he needs an outside force to intervene.
He just can't feel safe with Tav in a non sexual romantic relationship, at least at first.
He needs to be in control, he doesn't need any curve balls thrown at him. Go along, give him what he wants.
He can trust he's actually safe with you unless he feels he's succeeded at manipulating you, used his own skills to secure a place at your side.
He's lost without that control. The vulnerability can come later, when he's ready, instead of when circumstances force it upon him like in the Karlach romance.
He gets mean but he apologizes right after that. He does not want to hurt her, he is just frustrated. Despite this he still enjoys the situation.
I see your points. But what many people have a problem with is that Tav might have valid reasons to not engage with him but the game does not even consider the posibility. The player has no agency in the romance, which is questionable because Astarion has a huge following of people who can relate to having a difficult relationship with sexuality. Completely locking the player out of the romance by simply declining his advances once seems almost silly. Starting the romance in act 2 in a non-sexual way would be a good alternative imo. In the end he falls for Tav because they are kind to him, protected him, don't see him as a monster and offer emotional support, not because they rolled around in the dirt that one night after a party.
@@Louves192 Yeah, I think being able to start the romance in Act II makes much more sense than non sexually starting it in Act I.
It didn't really occur to me because oh my god adding that into the game would be so much work.
I'm sympathetic to your point about the player character's agency, I'm one of those people who relate to him because of his history with a lack of agency.
But at the end of the day the player has all the agency, even if the character doesn't. As a narrative device, I find it incredibly powerful to be required to give into Astarion and play into *his* plan, the story *he's* deliberately building to seduce Tav, in order to get the outcome you want.
And, hey, in real life, sometimes you miss your chance to be with someone if you can't be with them they way they want you to.
Maybe it's just not on Astarion's mind anymore once you've turned him down and he comes to feel secure with out your interest in him.
It's a hint of disempowerment. Going into it not knowing his history, it's an incredibly powerful moment. The player is required to commit to him before they know he's manipulating them and why.
As a story, I value that. I wouldn't want it changed.
But I do understand where others are coming from, wishing they could tell a different story.
At the end of the day, there are only so many paths a video game or a choose your own adventure novel can take. It's simply the limit to the medium.
The developers wrote this story for us, and are inviting us to follow our own path through that story. The player's aren't the ones playing it.
I find that to be wonderful.
Never having played as a companion origin character... This feels like an alternative universe where parent Tav isn't there to parent their adoptive companion kids. So I'm glad the kids can take care of each other ❤
Omg this is nice! Seems not as fake start of a relationship as when you play Tav and know all Astarion's backstory
this is so cute! so Karlach can have a healthy relationship with Astarion from the beginning. I never thought to ship them, but this is lovely
This is so cute! We my partner and I joke I’m karlach and they’re asterion. And since I’m asexual this is exactly what we do!
nonono I was searching for bloodweave scenes why did youtube recommend me this *throws bloodweave over railing*
This is so sweet 🥺
He's so mean lol I love him but I want to punch him
I feel robbed- I want this as an option for Tav :(
I love this
THATS SO COOL
Based on everything I've seen of Astarian, when I eventually play this game, I'm going to fucking *hate* him. But he's going to be the sort of guy I *love* to hate.
Who knows, you might be surprised. I went into the game confident I was going to loathe the tropey fanservice vampire, yet by midway through the game Astarion was my favorite of the lot.
I went into the game thinking that he was either going to be a decent character that got blown out of proportion and is annoying with how prevalent he was, or he was going to be a piece of shit everyone woobified.
It turns out, the answer was both, but somehow those things cancel each other out and I can actually enjoy him as a character XD he's a shithead but he's my boo
It's not his fault, they aren't his sins. Darling get him drunk and make him feel. There is more to do if he can only live.
I went into the game with no idea who he was (I avoid spoilers like a vampire avoids the sun lol) but immediately disliked him. I found him annoying and honestly a little anxiety inducing because of how much he masks and how hard he is to read, and I still do indeed find him annoying and hard to read xD but there's another person in there under the mask who... IDK if I like them, honestly I don't know them, that's kind of the point. But fuck me if it isn't well written.
I think that's the point. I don't like Astarion, but I love how well crafted he is as a character.
Not when he carries in most fights and has the funniest dialogue in the weirdest scenes 😂 but you’ll have to experience it yourself.
What’s their good romantic ending like? Those must be unique cutscenes too!
I would have tried it if i actually liked karlach , do they go to hell together or what
i tried from Astarion's POV, he can go to hell with Karlach! There are also datamined epilogue lines by Withers where he says something along the lines of "Astarion fought with Karlach in hell, she for survival, he for more power" if you have ascended Astarion :D
@@kirbothestabo whoa how interesting
@@Hiyorin871 The only way to go with Karlach to Avernus while playing as Astarion is to ascend him. Since he does not fear the sun anymore, he is able to pursue the same scene that Tav has. HOWEVER, it is very out of character for him, in my opinion. But since you plays him, you can influence his choices and make the character do things he would normally not do. That's why I personnally take the Withers epilogue as some sort of adjustement in case the player is Ascended Astarion, but I really don't think it should be taken for canon. If he's a spawn, he has to run away from the sun, same as in the regular ending with Tav, and he'll never get to see Karlach again.
That's why I'd recommand playing as Karlach and romance him as her, because the ending you'll get will be VERY different. Here's, it's the opposite. It's impossible for Ascended Astarion to go with Karlach to Avernus: He'll dump her as soon as he'll understand he can't turn her into a spawn due to her "burning" condition, calling her doomed and defective. Apparently, even if her engine is fixed. Imo, that's how the real Ascended Astarion would treat her for real.
BUT if he remains a Spawn, in the epilogue, he'll convince her to let him go with her to Avernus in a very sweet custscene, where he says that life is what you make it and that he want to make his with her, that in Avernus he wouldn't have to fear the sun, be able to kill as much as he wants, and that he could spend all of his time with the one person he wants to be with.
@@so_rebi954 oh fuck me that's lovely! Thank you for sharing.
Can you have an interaction like this with tav?
you can get the same scene, but it will either turn into a sex scene or you turning him down. like 80% of the dialogue here is completely unique to Karlach.
@@riverpubby bummer I actually felt violated when he said he felt disgust on act 2
@@patriciaalastre2546i dunno if you're aware of the reason why, yet, but given his past i don't think it's something your Tav should take personally.
@@YouLikeKrabbyPattiesDontYou I understand but it goes both ways. I’m not diminishing the pain a person in that situation is suffering yet I cannot condone their bad actions. Playing with someone’s feelings is wrong. Yes I get it at one point he had no choice, but with tav he did
God all I’m asking is for us to be able to get a relationship with him without having sex like this, is that too much to ask?
Two different eyes. Someone had a date with Volo didn’t you?
What does the reverse scene look like?
you get the normal karlach romance, i.e. no sex act 1 because she'll burn you, get her second upgrade in act 2 and you get the sex scene
2:48
I wish a doo talk to me like that 😔😢
Its cute but Karlach and Astarion would never work the ending with them makes clear they dont fit doesnt matter if ascended or not ascended astarion. Karlach and wyll i can see and even minthara with her but astarion nope.
I’m not playing it and yet I can’t watch Astarion without cringing. I can’t believe so many people getting turned on by this dude lol