That is more or less exactly what Magpul told me when I spoke to them. Expansion & contraction of the spring is what causes wear. Aka using them. Not constant compression from being loaded long term.
@@jmarr8572 wow, sorry that us simple folks are discussing whether constantly being under tension is more damaging than the action of going under tension and relatively immediately releasing. Is there a place for us inferior people to discuss things without bothering you? I don’t want to disturb your safe place.
@@josh2711 easy my brother! @jmarr is friend, not food. He was sarcastic, but he is also correct. Nobody called you "stupid or simpleton". He is saying this guy's first video threw alot of people off (including me). I'm sure you can agree that most of us, upon watching this, were thinking, "that's what I thought!" This, right here, is the space where all of us here belong. We should be better than the Libturds who can't even have a basic and reasonable conversation
you’re not lying bro. on any video i watch that has to do with guns half the comments are complaining about something the person in the video did wrong and usually half of those people complaining are wrong themselves. idk what it is about gun people that makes so many of them have such big egos
@Peace Pills it's called hyper masculinity. With hyper masculinity usually comes a lot of insecurities that they must compensate for. They see being wrong as the weakness. Can't be weak. Ever. That's what it is
Not sure who y'all watch but sounds like you need to change up your viewing habits. But judging by the things y'all say you seem pretty stupid and have nothing but low information arguments, and a bunch of strawmen approaches.
@@PeacePills.t's one of those dogmagic topics full of armchair "experts" who are so unyielding to any new information that they ridicule everything they didn't already believe. There are lots of topics like this (such as dogs), where personal familiarity imbues a sense of expertise in its adherents. It's got nothing to do with "fragile masculinity" (whatever that BS neologism means), unlike what someone tried suggesting in the comments; what a braindead take btw. It's due to the fact that it's one of those subjects that the individual feels expertise in due to having lived with an interest in it for most of their lives. Opinions become deep held beliefs which are incredibly hard to change as they become part of the person's ego and experience.
I agree. So many feel that admiring wrong is gonna hurt them and they go down a rabbit hole of making up nonsense to prove they Weren’t wrong. I avoid those people at all cost. They are detrimental to advancements.
I hope he goes huge if he does proper research from now on.... props for the humility, but entertaining foolishness is not productive either.... unless you wanna spend your time listening to bad info only to spend more time finding that out
Well to be fair in this case? I think doubling down would more than likely be a career killer. Either that or a career booster for being the silliest bastard in the gun game
Takes a real man to come out like this most just delete the video and keep moving . Hats 🧢 good sir is still think their may be some truth to what you said though regardless they keep trash from getting inside the magazine and not t relieves pressure on the lips like u said
A spring doesn't deteriorate when it's compressed. Only when it constantly compresses and decompresses. Leaving a spring compressed won't hurt it at all.
It must be remembered that large temperature fluctuations cause movement in the spring, which in turn wears out the spring (a little bit, but still). So storage at a constant temperature is recommended
“Deteriorate” is kind of a relative term anyways, right? Maybe Jordan Peterson could delve into that a bit. lol. Every spring I’ve seen stored under load looses itzy bitzy amounts of “memory” I guess you could call it, but probably not enough to effect reliable function. To say it “doesn’t affect” them is probably not true, but to say it doesn’t matter probably is true.
It doesn't seem to be true as Paul harrel reasons. He says like a car, a suspension always fully compressed will have problems returning to original length. And has found the same thing to happen with magazine springs
@@joeculver6227 prob a good idea to get new mags once a decade, just to be safe. Magpuls anyway. Stuff like Glock mags usually have metal reinforcement on the lips.
when the bad guys come along and you actually need to use your weapons, they will surely give you time to unlock your safe, and then unlock your separately stored ammo, and then load your empty mags!!
The entire time I've owned guns I've had people tell me to not store mags loaded. For the past 20 years I ignored them. I have never had a mag problem.
I’ve been telling people this for years. It’s perfectly safe for your mags to be stored loaded. There have been engineering studies on spring compression that support this practice.
What someone said that seemed to have logic behind it is that the whole "don't store you mags loaded" comes from when the US was manufacturing mags with the expectation for them to be essentially single use. They weren't expecting them to be reused over extended periods of time, so thing materials the springs were made out of wasn't the right material for making springs.
The old "don't store mags loaded" came from early magazines when spring steel was more susceptible to tension fatigue. While that is still true to a degree, improvements in technology and manufacturing have given us the gift of far superior metal products in the last century or so.
not really, you kinda have no choice in this age of vital content. better admit before the fans getchu lol. and he lowkey coped out with the “the people that told me are also wrong”, would never report something I don’t k n o w just ‘cause someone t o l d me
better to admit to forget and move on. you can store it loaded, just unload and reload every 6 months. it'll be fine, I cleaned mine even if I didn't shoot. you carry it in a dusty area. clean my handguns more cause of carry dust and grim. when ever you clean. cycle the rounds out to reload them back. it's fine. it's having responsibilities with a loaded mag. you want it to work properly. take care of it. it shouldn't just be a symbol. don't want the responsibility, keep it in the box till you're ready to use it.
And if some asshole acts like a prick & not listen to the man that does admit they're wrong. Then that fool will learn & get a taste of their own medicine for not listening!
Guns & Ammo magazine a few years ago ran a story of one of the contributors that discovered a loaded 1911 magazine in a .45, after his father died. A receipt and a box of ammo, minus 7 rounds, indicated that it had been left in that state for 60 years or so. It was tried, and everything, pistol, mag and ammo, all ran perfectly!!
But the 1911 is a special case. Guns designed by John Moses Browning live in fear of disappointing their maker in the afterlife. Of course that magazine spring wouldn’t dare lose its elasticity.
I saw something like this for rifle magazines some old guy had sealed away for 40-60 years, he heard there was a debate on this and tested out the old mags and turns out they worked fine.
I remember that very article. Makes me laugh when I see guys *still* believing that mags wear out from just sitting there doing what theyre designed to do lol
PhD in Mechanical Engineering here. Wear occurs from use, not sitting static. In weak materials, creep can occur at lower temperatures, but that is definitely going to be the first thing an engineer thinks about when selecting a material. Springs and feed lips weaken due to the repeated stressing and relaxing that occurs from regular use, just like bending a piece of metal back and forth until it breaks. The repeated stress and relaxation (when less than yield strength) causes microscopic cracks to form and propagate whoch eventually lead to failure. But this doesn't happen under the static stress of a loaded magazine.
Engineer or not you’re wrong regarding polymer magazines. There’s a reason they have dates on them. I had loaded pmags that were 7 years old that were never fired. 3 of the 4 magazines upon taking them out to shoot not only caused non stop feed issues, but the slightest bump would cause a volcano of rounds. These magazines were kept inside. While you’re assessment sounds great and comforting for those buying magazines it is not applicable to this product. That doesn’t mean they are bad magazines, it just means they have a shelf life used or not.
Those circumstances you describe with temperature and stress will undoubtably reduce lifespan quicker but to claim that in a static environment with optimal temperature they will maintain their integrity over time… that’s false.
@@ricosroughnecks1223 both aren't mutually exclusive. All polymers have a life span indeed. But within that Life span those that are used will indeed wear faster and all of them will go bad after their lifetime
@@DeadStawker 100% agree. Additionally, the AR platform is dimensionally standardized within the mag well, you can only make the feed lips so thick using Magpul polymer. The truth of the matter is that the material too thin for the needed rigidity to withstand pressure for long term storage while fully loaded. This is why lancer uses reinforced feed lips or why some people just prefer steel mags. Again, I still like pmags for their weight, fitment, grip, and a variety of other factors. Let’s just not make pretend this product is something that it’s not. It doesn’t do anyone any favors.
Yes.... The spring only wears due to the movement of the metal. If it is left alone, you can store your magazines loaded almost forever. They teach you this in the military.....
Im 6 years prior service. Us Army Field Artillery. We were issued the ole M-16A1, with both 20 and 30 metal mags. Our manuals and Drill Sgts told us to load 18 in a 20 rounder and 28 in the 30's. And I was raised being told to download firearm mags a round or two and to rotate loaded mags every 6 months. So I always have. I'm 60 now and have never had a mag spring go bad using these ideas. My AR-15 laying beside me at the moment has a 40 round Pmag in it , loaded with 37 rounds of IMI green tip 5.56. Current advice is totally oposite of what I was always taught. I believe a person should practice which ever way works for them and makes them happy. I will sign off with saying, the main problem I've had with mags over my long experience with firearms is with cheap, aftermarket magazines. After having complete failures with the first couple I bought when I was young, I've always refused to waste any money on them.
@@JuristPugilist A lot of people, especially internet goers, would still not admit fault. In the context of the internet, he does still stand out in a good way.
@@YedolfWesler A lot of people pride themselves on “sticking to their principles,” but then they start being stubborn and arrogant as well and stuff like what you say happens. Luckily at least I am starting to see some real change for the better in people in recent years.
Thank God to Answer that question 🙋♂️. Simple Answers are the best and Thank You 🙏 for the research!!!! Some one that actually talked to the manufacturer and got a straight answer!!!
I had 5 PMAGs (gen2's) loaded to 30, in the trunk of my Patrol car in the SE US for 8 years. The only time they got "unloaded" was when I used up my duty ammo for annual quals. Then immediately reloaded and back in the go-bag. Probably got up to 140-150F in the trunk during day shifts. Emptied them for the last time before I retired and zero issues. Handed them back into supply to be re-issued at the range for training use.
It's funny you say that because gun guys and gym guys come in a lot of the same flavors😂 Imy co-workers and I were talking about annoying gun guys and one of them goes. Yeah just like guys at the gym are like that.
I've realized that if you listen to all gym and gun advice you find online the end result would be you'd never work out again and you'd sell your gun back to the gov
I’ve heard it’s bad to store mags loaded but I’ve done it all my life, I’ve had an ak mag that’s been full since I bought it 8 years ago, I shoot it time to time but always refill and store it loaded, still works like it’s supposed to
Ask Steven Willeford how that feels. I bet he NEVER goes along with that NRA "store your guns and unloaded mags and ammo separately" bullshit again, after having to load his mag while hearing his friends and neighbors die with every shot inside that church across the street from him.
Magpul is right, their feed lips and springs won't wear out. But I worked as a security contractor and we swapped over from USGI aluminum mags to PMags. After 6 months I inspected all of the mags we had issued to personnel and those staged at fighting positions. Not including our training mags, out of 450 mags which were kept loaded the whole time and not cycled by using at the range for training, I found over 50 mags that were split along the center of the back of the magazine. All the magazines were bought at the same time so possibly it was a defective batch, but none of my personal mags have split which I've kept loaded for the past 10 years, with the covers installed. I don't know how anyone can say the dust covers don't take pressure off the feed lips when you can see them push the rounds down off the feed lips when installed! Yes, they keep dust and debris out of the magazine, but it also takes pressure off the feed lips.
Man I got into it on FB with "the guy who designed them" about this whole thing. He said it was a load of shit and I pretty much regurgitated what you did and he said I was a liar and I told him he was ignorant.
You mean the milspec ones I've had stored in my cabinet since I lfet the Corps post Desert Storm??? Shits-giggles ran a few of them through my AR with ZERO ISSUES. These internet arseclown wanna be's drive me nuts. @@johnjones2341
I've got over 500 UTM mags witch are very similar to gen2 Pmags but blue, this is consistent with how they fail as well, they'll start with a small crack and eventually the lips spread (nice) enough that the mag gets barely bumped and just dumps it's load out (nice) At the risk of sounding fudd, technically it's apples to oranges as a UTM mag isn't a P mag but because of this, I'm a believer in 28rds on polymer mags without spring steel lips. Do what you want obviously but -2rds is cheap and easy insurance.
My uncle gave me his WW2 M1 Carbine. And a full unopened 600 round spam can. And, twenty 15 round original mags all loaded in the 60’s. Not one failure among them.
@@blackbetti gun he was issued and carried. He bought the spam can of ammo in the 60’s. Said he paid $25 for it. No idea what that can of ammo is worth now.
I honestly didn't even know they had dust covers for magazines, that's pretty cool The fact that you released a public retraction/correction is even cooler. Takes a big man to admit you were wrong, especially publicly. On the bright side, that shows you're reliable. I'mma subscribe :D
A mag will not wear from loaded storage it is a spring and a follower ...repaeted loading and unloading is what causes spring wear just like the springs on your car they won't ever go bad with 4000 lbs sitting on them its the repeated expanding an contracting of the spring that causes failure ... same for any spring incuding your gun mags
That’s theory isn’t completely correct because the springs in your vehicle well 99% of vehicles use struts and are nitrogen filled. Even vehicles with coil overs now are not load bearing on the springs at dead weight. A compressed spring basically slowly starts to bend over time. So slowly depending on the type of steel and it’s hardness, thickness and how much energy it’s holding. Are you storing it in a gun and a round chambered so it’s really at 29 rounds? Are you Storing it’s at 30 or crammed at 31. Yes I’ve seen that done more than once. Everything makes a difference. Repeatedly loading and unloading is increasing wear through use and does promote faster wear. But that doesn’t mean a loaded mag doesn’t take on wear either.
@@XxBigDAWG22xXWhen it comes to automotive suspension, you have no idea what you are talking about. Take the springs off a coil-over, and the vehicle will sit at full travel on the bump-stops. The nitrogen in shock absorbers is there to prevent cavitation and aeration of the shock oil. The increased internal pressure also raises the boiling point of the shock oil.
@@btdtalso I mean my truck only has nitrogen shocks. My four wheeler suspension will sit on the floor of their isn’t nitrogen in it. My post driver will not fire without nitrogen. I work with nitrogen everyday. You don’t have a clue what your talking about. They work in conjunction but nitrogen is the biggest contributor
@XxBigDAWG22xX I've been working on race cars, motorcycles, and just about every type of vehicle there is for over 50 years. The nitrogen in automotive shocks, struts, and coil-overs is there to prevent cavitation/aeration of the shock oil, and to raise the boiling point of the shock oil. Yes, there are "springless" nitrogen-filled "gas pressure shocks" on the market, but you will not find them on any stock automotive suspension. If you can point out any conventional automobile or truck that DOES NOT use springs as the primary load-bearing component of the suspension, I'll listen... otherwise, I'm not buying it.
@@scottjohnson8576I’ve had mags of several types stay loaded for years and never fails. I’ve also had those same types/brands of mags fail in the same time frame. (BUT) not a single time has it been due to feed lips but actually spring failure. I’ve had them break or just lose their rebound because the memory in the steel itself starts to become more natural in its compressed state. Typically on those it would feed part or most of a mag and just have a feed failure around 4-5 rounds left. I think it solely comes down to what grade steel was really used in the spring. I also will say it’s been far less that have failed than those that didn’t. But I have always stored my loaded mags at 20rds since and never had a single failure in recent years.
I agree, but it doesn't seem to be stopping all the people who still seem to think they need to offer corrections and explanations in response to his correction.
I wish they covered springs in high school physics. It would end a lot of these discussions. Springs get worn out from compressing AND decompressing. The cycle is what wears them out. You can store mags loaded or unloaded for years. Either way, there is still tension on them because the springs' relaxed state is actually taller than the magazine.
Except in this case(magpul) it was not about the springs, it was about the plastic feed lips bowing outward in high heat environments over long periods of time. Possibly even room temp environments.
@@miltechmoto never had issues with multiple deployments. I have have used the same mags over and over again since 2010 and not one of them had these issues. Extremely hot or cold climate, dust covers or not, not an issue on springs or feed lips. I have seen the wear issue on the feed lips from people loading improperly
The clips on the pmags also allow you to transport them on planes while loaded. Normally your ammunition has to be separate from mags and the gun. But with the top clip on the mag, the mag is considered the box for the ammunition, making it legal to fly with.
I think it was an old James Yeager video from back in the day that taught me that. Would highly recommend taking the tactical response class "the fight" for all who read this. It's the best class out there for conceal and carry
@@tjlures you say it's from back in the day, so I'm curious if that's still the case to this day. But, then again, this does sound accurate for TSA and FAA regs and the US government being so behind on some things and completely not thinking on others.
Cool to see your open the new ideas and realize your capable of being wrong. Ive worked in the industry for quite awhile as a gunsmith and let me tell you the number one issue is people parroting information that is either flat out wrong or is eventually repeated incorrectly. I see it on a daily basis, the internet is both a blessing and a major curse.
The way mag springs are coiled is designed so that the spring can be fully compressed with out reaching anywhere near its point of yield. That is the point in which you bend a metal past the point where it will return to its original shape. Look up the stress strain curve, elasticity vs plasticity, and yielding. This is why those springs use a box shaped coil, utilize as much length as they can between loops, and many loops over a long distance. It's to maintain elasticity over long periods of storage under compression. The thing you have to worry more about is your feed lips on cheap mags deforming from the pressure. Had that happen to some cheap aluminum mags over some years. Buy steel or polymer they're better. You get what you buy.
This is true. You can store AR/AK type mags loaded, no problem. WARNING, do not do this with Ruger 10/22 25 round mags! I have several that no longer feed because I left them loaded for too long, and the coiled "clock spring" in the Ruger Mags will lose tension over time.
Springs are springs. As long as you don't over extend them, they work just fine. Your cars suspension uses springs, and even after hundreds of thousands of miles and constant load cycling, they still bounce back
Usually after 100k (150k is pushing it) you need new shocks and struts. Obviously every car and driving habits affect the life cycle of them and there’s always going to be the few who differentiate between the common.
@@08HR350zwhat the hell do shocks or struts have to do with talking about springs? The shock or strut cartridge is what wears, an average vehicle will never need new springs.
Mad respect for correcting yourself. I wish more people with an audience did that. It’s impossible to be 100% accurate but it is possible to be 100% honest. Salute bro
The science of springs is concrete at this point. We use them in almost every mechanical design. A spring fully compressed does not wear faster than one without tension. The only way it could possibly do so is if you heat the metal or introduce it to other stresses such as water or corrosive substances. Primarily just heat though. So store your LOADED magazines in a cool dry dark place and they'll be fine. An unloaded magazine is worthless and you're going to end up dead when you need it most. What will wear them out is constant duty cycles (loading and unloading them). So if you're unloading your mags every night you will eventually lose tension. In fact what generally kills the tension in a spring from duty cycles is... say it with me HEAT. Because cycles induce heat. Have you ever broken a piece of metal (say a coat hanger) by bending it back and forth? Notice how it heats up at the stress point? It can even burn you. Also if you don't break it notice how the metal isn't as rigid even after cooling in some cases (depending on alloy composition) and it is less likely to return to its original form (plastic vs elastic deformation). If constant tension broke springs you couldn't have recoil springs in a firearm since they are constantly under tension while sitting doing nothing. You couldn't have garage doors (tracks die first due to tension from cycles, not the springs) or shocks. You couldn't have most modern mechanical marvels without easily deduced spring duty life and understanding the strain when compressed. The only strain on the spring while compressed is the initial compression, not staying at that state for an extended period. Springs are designed to not undergo plastic deformation while at their max load (where the spring is fully compressed) via an easily calculated equation (unless the spring is designed by a literal jackass and you shouldn't be buying products from jackasses). Energy doesn't come out from a worm hole to heat up and destroy your springs while you sleep at night in your loaded magazine. I have 25 fully loaded PMAGs that are a little over 13 years old and 14 steel GI STANAG mags from the Vietnam era inherited from my elderly father. All of them have only ever been in a fully loaded state, except when I shoot them/reload them/clean them (and my dad did the same when he owned them). They all work as good as the day I got them because I store them in a cool dry place, clean them occasionally and lubricate/protect them. I do have some poorly made Korean magazines though that have failed not because of being loaded but because no amount of engineering time went into their spring design, it is just an inferior product. There are other things to consider if you're psychotically unloading and reloading your magazines everyday like a neurotic lunatic. Can you guess what that is? Moisture ingress and corrosion. Believe it or not your skin is a living organ that secrets fatty oils that are mildly corrosive to many materials. Getting your greasy mitts all over exposed brass will cause corrosion on the case W(which could lead to an explosion and you don't want that) and moisture ingress into the primer (which means your gun won't go bang when you need it! why do you think high quality defensive ammo is nickle plated? Because they know you guys are going to be handling them frequently without shooting them, which is also why the primers are lacquered and the seat of the bullet by the neck is crimped and annealed). If you're still not convinced I'll get into the literal science of spring cycles, plastic-vs-elastic deformation and more in a reply. Even provide you with formulas and and understanding of them. TL;DR this is Fudd-lore and the internet is forever. Don't be a fool on the internet for your own sake. Don't be the butt of a joke for the amusement of others. Just trust your average mechanical engineer or even a high-school student with a moderate education in such things (this is part of common curriculum in American high-school).
Hey, At least you are MAN enough to admit when you're wrong and then make a vid to show and explain why you were wrong!!! Thank You for That!!! We absolutely Need More people to be this way!!! To not let your pride stop you from learning and then teaching others truth!!! That's the qualities of a Great MAN!!!
Bro, I was one of the guys who called you out and got into quite an argument or 6 in the comments. Mighty great of you to come back and correct the record. Much respect. For everyone who doubted me: I took names. I will remember. I am coming for you.
@@user-kv3ut6pv4b I am proud of the author, but I want unarmed combat with every needle d*ck that questioned me in the comments. I will not stop until I achieve total domination.
@@caged3249of course he couldn't get that because he ended the video. At least he took the time to comment and let us know he didn't watch it. LOL! The fact that the guy called it a magazine before he referred to the clip on cover shows not only did he not watch it but he's not smart enough to figure things out.
Does a true man also disable the dislike button while keeping the like button enabled, thus shielding himself from any negative opinions? Not that I disliked the video, I just find it extremely cowardly when any content creator either disables dislikes, disables comments or deletes comments they don't like.
They may not be able to CLAIM it reduces fatigue on the feed lips but by it pushing the top round down, it does in fact take all the pressure off of said lip
I RESPECT UA-camrs who can be humble, and say, "sorry, I made an error, let me fix this". I hate the ones who resort to excuses, technicalities, and even insults, when you point out their mistake. I will PROUDLY subscribe to anything you do in the future
@@wolf-ls7jx Saw a guy stretch his springs put for his mags in Iraq back in 2007. It caused them all to malfunction when he next used them. They were the GI mags that the Corps issued us. Anyway, that idea backfired on him.
@@Dead_Again1313 depends on the application. If I leave my pistol mags loaded for a few weeks they hang up and they are Sig Sauer factory mags. That's why I rotate mags. Springs will weaken when compressed for long periods. Some mags I load half and that doesn't seem to affect them. It's when they're fully compressed that they take a set, especially shotgun mag tube springs.
THANKS. Admitting that you're wrong is never an easy thing. Correcting yourself is even better. THANK YOU FOR BEING A HUMAN AND KNOWING IT. I had been taught the same thing, now I know that I was wrong as well.
very true. but also why get on and confidently say shit that's wrong to begin with? Just makes you look foolish. Especially when it has to do with firearms of all things. If you wanna be wrong and it not matter, be wrong about how long to microwave a hot pocket. But now days everyone is a master at their hobby cause thyme been in it 6 months. fuckin UA-cam
I only load 5 rounds in a 30rd magazine. It makes it incredibly more easy to press the bolt release. It's also less pressure on the magazine spring so you don't gouge the bottom of the bolt carrier with the brass. I've been doing this for years, and I know it works because my Red Dot has never lost 'zero'...
Springs absolutely weaken from creep. Many springs fail because of this. If you have no other design constraints, typically you can engineer a spring that will minimize creep. The deHaviland Comet failed because of an exceptionally poor window design that caused cracking with fatigue loading via cabin compression cycles. It is not a fatigue versus creep discussion - or have you just missed that airplanes haven’t been falling out of the skies the past 80 years due to explosive decompression?
@@stevebean1234 the amount creep will contribute to a failure to feed a round in a standard magazine is pretty minimal. Hell, I've never even used any enough to have the issue (also, according to politicians, once you use them all once, there will be none left). As for the Comet, it was airframe stress. Similar issues in aviation arose under vertical fatigue of the wings. Though they could withstand large static loads, designers apparently never disassembled paperclips as kids.
@@stevebean1234 springs weaken from creep when magazines are poorly designed. A properly designed magazine will prevent the spring from being deformed into the plastic region and will instead keep the sping in the elastic region. If this is done properly there will be no recognizable creep in the magazine
I worked in an arms room in Germany while waiting for my security clearance and remember doing an ammo inspection with my lieutenant. Our security forces were issued 28 rounds to load in a 30 round magazine and then also given two foil packets each holding three loaded 20 round magazines (5.56 mm) These would fit neatly in the soldiers two ammo pouches on our LBE. Apparently moisture had gotten into the foil packets when they were sealed and about 90 percent of what we opened had rusted away springs and we poured the rounds out of the mags just like water. So if your mags have metal springs and they are stored in an area where moisture might get to them then I would recommend you inspect them frequently or the day when you really need them comes they may fail you.
I used a really old trick to counter this actually. I put them in an airtight sealed ammo box with a mini burlap bag full of rice to absorb any moisture that may have been present when sealing the container. I live in a very hot and humid climate so I do my best to ensure preserving ammunition and firearms properly.
EVERYONE makes mistakes, so props to this content creator for being a man and admitting when he was wrong. *Note - I, on the other hand, am never wrong. I once thought i was wrong, but i was mistaken.
Really props to this guy for making a counter video to what he thought was right. Correcting your statement and admitting something is the strongest talent a creator can have. Just subscribed.
I worked at a gun store for years. Widows would occasionally bring in their husband’s gun collections to get rid of them. Some of the magazines had been stored loaded since WWII or the Korean War. They always worked.
A pal inherited a WW2 .45 , wrapped in an oily rag in 1995. He went to a range, got a full cleaning. original ammo , mag spring and gun fired flawless .
Well managed, brother. Good to see an uploader who doesn't let their pride and ego get in the way of public self-reflection. I had a few older Magpul magazines that have been full for years that I've neglected, and recently took them to the range to clear em out the fun way. They're great products that work like a charm!
I contacted Magpul tech support and asked about storing loaded magazines... Magpul told me they have stored full magazines for 7 1/2 years with NO bad effects.. Magpul tech stated the only thing that wears down the spring , is using it.. A fully compressed spring retains the factory tension just like an empty magazine , even when compressed for years..The ONLY thing that weakens the spring , is using it..and the metal they use should last for thousands of full compression/full release cycles.
All this talk about spring only, but not much about feed lips. I don't keep all my mags fully loaded for years and years, I really don't see the point in doing that. However, I am more concerned about feed lip spread than springs set or weakening. I personally like the idea of the magpul dust cover that takes the pressure off the feed lips.
Correct! I took metallurgy in school because I was going to be a structural engineer. Metals fatigue and wear out due to movement. So, loading and using your magazines slowly wears them out. But simply storing mags loaded. There is no movement of the spring. So there should be no fatigue, and no wear taking place. It's fine to store them loaded.
Can confirm, I'm buddies with magpuls vp, I asked him the other day about mag storage. No dust cover needed, and they were designed to be stored loaded for years
Springs wear from working... loading and unloading actually wears the spring more than just storing them loaded. Good on you for taking initiative and finding out.
If you store a loaded mag it will be utterly fine for decades. the biggest factor for concern is preventing humidity from corroding the metal or roughing the surfaces. another helpful tip is load them minus 1 round for a pistol or minus 2 rounds for a rifle to reduce tension of the spring. I have several mags I have left loaded for decades. some surplus mags and others brand new in their day. all of them work fine and a new spring is like five dollars.
Props on 1. Staying open minded and hearing, realizing, accepting and admitting your video was wrong. And 2. Posting this video to attempt to correct the issue and pass along the best, newest information to us all. Thanks.
I was told to store a loaded clip with one shell less than capacity. It's pouring your ammo into an ammo box that is bad. It corrupts the casings.Ammo differs also crappy ammo rolls out of the gun. Good ammo flies out.
I store my magazines empty and in a separate safe from my guns, that are also stored with the lower and upper separated. I also store my ammo separate, in another room. My magazine spring was also removed as well.
Beautiful video with great information. I always wondered about this. But then again, i always store mine full and haven't had an issue, but if i did, it would be totally worth buying new mags rather than getting caught with your pants down. As far as the dust cover , I use 7.62x39 platforms, so I purposely allow dust sand and grime everywhere because i know my machines loves it. Let er eat boys!
Old spring steel is what caused this whole arguement. Modern springs in these mags in reality should last 15 years plus+. 8 years and they should be flawless after 10 years + you may start seeing a malfunction from time to time.
![PC Master Race Explained in 9 minutes [Animated]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RRY1jrIDhvU/mqdefault.jpg)
They wear far more from use than being stored full.
This is very true
That is more or less exactly what Magpul told me when I spoke to them. Expansion & contraction of the spring is what causes wear. Aka using them. Not constant compression from being loaded long term.
REALLY????!!!!!??????? I WOULDA NEVER GUESSED THAT STORING SOMTHING AWAY WOULD KEEP IT IN BETTER CONDITION THEN USING IT UR A GENIUS!!!!!!!!
@@jmarr8572 wow, sorry that us simple folks are discussing whether constantly being under tension is more damaging than the action of going under tension and relatively immediately releasing. Is there a place for us inferior people to discuss things without bothering you? I don’t want to disturb your safe place.
@@josh2711 easy my brother! @jmarr is friend, not food. He was sarcastic, but he is also correct. Nobody called you "stupid or simpleton". He is saying this guy's first video threw alot of people off (including me). I'm sure you can agree that most of us, upon watching this, were thinking, "that's what I thought!"
This, right here, is the space where all of us here belong. We should be better than the Libturds who can't even have a basic and reasonable conversation
Props for being a real man and admitting that you where wrong. The world needs more people like you
Were
Men are often too annoying to admit their wrong. Ego fucks a majority of em
Where
Whermst
Barbecue
Man, so many people in the community are ego driven. Mad respect for corrections and setting a solid example of ownership.
Damage is done, so many people will never see this correction. It’s just like how leftist news media operates!
Absolutely 👍🏻 🇺🇸🇺🇸
Amen. Great job correcting us and yourself as well. Not many would do that. I’m going to subscribe just because of this.
💯
Yeah instead he uses a clickbait title
Always store your mags loaded!!... so that the day you actually need it, you aren't wasting time loading it lol.
I know right lol! The internet is wild everyone’s gotta voice their opinion and everyone’s gotta be “right”.
🙈
Im pretty sure he meant to put the clip over the mag. So dirt can't go in. Thats what his trying to say.
Exactly
Amen to that
Hold on intruder I gotta get all these rounds in my magazine
A gun UA-camr that corrected his statement honestly got me to subscribe. As someone who’s been in the gun world for 25+ years this is rare
you’re not lying bro. on any video i watch that has to do with guns half the comments are complaining about something the person in the video did wrong and usually half of those people complaining are wrong themselves. idk what it is about gun people that makes so many of them have such big egos
@Peace Pills it's called hyper masculinity. With hyper masculinity usually comes a lot of insecurities that they must compensate for. They see being wrong as the weakness. Can't be weak. Ever. That's what it is
Same
Not sure who y'all watch but sounds like you need to change up your viewing habits. But judging by the things y'all say you seem pretty stupid and have nothing but low information arguments, and a bunch of strawmen approaches.
@@PeacePills.t's one of those dogmagic topics full of armchair "experts" who are so unyielding to any new information that they ridicule everything they didn't already believe.
There are lots of topics like this (such as dogs), where personal familiarity imbues a sense of expertise in its adherents.
It's got nothing to do with "fragile masculinity" (whatever that BS neologism means), unlike what someone tried suggesting in the comments; what a braindead take btw.
It's due to the fact that it's one of those subjects that the individual feels expertise in due to having lived with an interest in it for most of their lives. Opinions become deep held beliefs which are incredibly hard to change as they become part of the person's ego and experience.
Holy shit!!! Someone on UA-cam actually admitting that they were mistaken!! Damn dude, huge respect, I hope your channel goes huge. Seriously
I was about to say that, kinda impressed
Its called humility. It's not something new.
@@davidh4305it’s not new for people your around but new to the internet.
I agree. So many feel that admiring wrong is gonna hurt them and they go down a rabbit hole of making up nonsense to prove they Weren’t wrong. I avoid those people at all cost. They are detrimental to advancements.
I hope he goes huge if he does proper research from now on.... props for the humility, but entertaining foolishness is not productive either.... unless you wanna spend your time listening to bad info only to spend more time finding that out
Admitting your mistakes shows more about your character than doubling down. Props
He still called the magazine a clip. I wouldn't trust this guy to give me a free water
@@NothingSekret…no? i think ur a tad stupid. “magpul clip” is the name of the product
Well to be fair in this case? I think doubling down would more than likely be a career killer. Either that or a career booster for being the silliest bastard in the gun game
Takes a real man to come out like this most just delete the video and keep moving . Hats 🧢 good sir is still think their may be some truth to what you said though regardless they keep trash from getting inside the magazine and not t relieves pressure on the lips like u said
@@NothingSekrethe does this on purpose for comments. Most worthless guntuber that has existed to date.
A spring doesn't deteriorate when it's compressed. Only when it constantly compresses and decompresses. Leaving a spring compressed won't hurt it at all.
Thank you
It must be remembered that large temperature fluctuations cause movement in the spring, which in turn wears out the spring (a little bit, but still). So storage at a constant temperature is recommended
“Deteriorate” is kind of a relative term anyways, right? Maybe Jordan Peterson could delve into that a bit. lol.
Every spring I’ve seen stored under load looses itzy bitzy amounts of “memory” I guess you could call it, but probably not enough to effect reliable function. To say it “doesn’t affect” them is probably not true, but to say it doesn’t matter probably is true.
It doesn't seem to be true as Paul harrel reasons. He says like a car, a suspension always fully compressed will have problems returning to original length. And has found the same thing to happen with magazine springs
@@joeculver6227 prob a good idea to get new mags once a decade, just to be safe. Magpuls anyway. Stuff like Glock mags usually have metal reinforcement on the lips.
when the bad guys come along and you actually need to use your weapons, they will surely give you time to unlock your safe, and then unlock your separately stored ammo, and then load your empty mags!!
Right? It's ridiculous to me how some ppl store thier crap like that
@@Perroden fr bruh
@Hito Hito Fruit Model: Reaper, those people have guns for the range, not protection, lmao. That's the all gas no breaks shooter.
@@christophertibbetts2458 Exactly.
It's also bad for your cylinder because of the powder but that's a good reason to keep a revolver
The entire time I've owned guns I've had people tell me to not store mags loaded. For the past 20 years I ignored them. I have never had a mag problem.
I joked with same people. Do they jack their cars up when stored to take weight off the springs? Keep mags all half weighted.
Right!!!
Tap. rack. Bang.
Yea, I'm sure the unwanted visted will stop, when you holler hold on, my mags are stored unloaded🤣🤣🤣
Seems to be a common theme amongst gun nuts.
I thought PC nerds were sheep, but goddamn, gun nuts take it a step up.
I’ve been telling people this for years. It’s perfectly safe for your mags to be stored loaded. There have been engineering studies on spring compression that support this practice.
What someone said that seemed to have logic behind it is that the whole "don't store you mags loaded" comes from when the US was manufacturing mags with the expectation for them to be essentially single use. They weren't expecting them to be reused over extended periods of time, so thing materials the springs were made out of wasn't the right material for making springs.
The old "don't store mags loaded" came from early magazines when spring steel was more susceptible to tension fatigue. While that is still true to a degree, improvements in technology and manufacturing have given us the gift of far superior metal products in the last century or so.
Takes a man to admit he’s wrong and correct himself. Publicly.🙌
not really, you kinda have no choice in this age of vital content. better admit before the fans getchu lol. and he lowkey coped out with the “the people that told me are also wrong”, would never report something I don’t k n o w just ‘cause someone t o l d me
better to admit to forget and move on. you can store it loaded, just unload and reload every 6 months. it'll be fine, I cleaned mine even if I didn't shoot. you carry it in a dusty area. clean my handguns more cause of carry dust and grim. when ever you clean. cycle the rounds out to reload them back. it's fine. it's having responsibilities with a loaded mag. you want it to work properly. take care of it. it shouldn't just be a symbol. don't want the responsibility, keep it in the box till you're ready to use it.
@@mossfromdade3056 common man, give us males some backup lol it’s toxic to be masculine these days and we need brotherhood 🙌🙌 you’re right tho
@@ACTUALLYRICH I see your point as well my friend
And if some asshole acts like a prick & not listen to the man that does admit they're wrong. Then that fool will learn & get a taste of their own medicine for not listening!
Guns & Ammo magazine a few years ago ran a story of one of the contributors that discovered a loaded 1911 magazine in a .45, after his father died. A receipt and a box of ammo, minus 7 rounds, indicated that it had been left in that state for 60 years or so. It was tried, and everything, pistol, mag and ammo, all ran perfectly!!
Prime example…❤
But the 1911 is a special case. Guns designed by John Moses Browning live in fear of disappointing their maker in the afterlife. Of course that magazine spring wouldn’t dare lose its elasticity.
I saw something like this for rifle magazines some old guy had sealed away for 40-60 years, he heard there was a debate on this and tested out the old mags and turns out they worked fine.
Use Metal mags 👍🏻👍🏻
I remember that very article. Makes me laugh when I see guys *still* believing that mags wear out from just sitting there doing what theyre designed to do lol
PhD in Mechanical Engineering here. Wear occurs from use, not sitting static. In weak materials, creep can occur at lower temperatures, but that is definitely going to be the first thing an engineer thinks about when selecting a material. Springs and feed lips weaken due to the repeated stressing and relaxing that occurs from regular use, just like bending a piece of metal back and forth until it breaks. The repeated stress and relaxation (when less than yield strength) causes microscopic cracks to form and propagate whoch eventually lead to failure. But this doesn't happen under the static stress of a loaded magazine.
Patrick well said.
Engineer or not you’re wrong regarding polymer magazines. There’s a reason they have dates on them. I had loaded pmags that were 7 years old that were never fired. 3 of the 4 magazines upon taking them out to shoot not only caused non stop feed issues, but the slightest bump would cause a volcano of rounds. These magazines were kept inside. While you’re assessment sounds great and comforting for those buying magazines it is not applicable to this product. That doesn’t mean they are bad magazines, it just means they have a shelf life used or not.
Those circumstances you describe with temperature and stress will undoubtably reduce lifespan quicker but to claim that in a static environment with optimal temperature they will maintain their integrity over time… that’s false.
@@ricosroughnecks1223 both aren't mutually exclusive. All polymers have a life span indeed. But within that Life span those that are used will indeed wear faster and all of them will go bad after their lifetime
@@DeadStawker 100% agree. Additionally, the AR platform is dimensionally standardized within the mag well, you can only make the feed lips so thick using Magpul polymer. The truth of the matter is that the material too thin for the needed rigidity to withstand pressure for long term storage while fully loaded. This is why lancer uses reinforced feed lips or why some people just prefer steel mags. Again, I still like pmags for their weight, fitment, grip, and a variety of other factors. Let’s just not make pretend this product is something that it’s not. It doesn’t do anyone any favors.
Yes.... The spring only wears due to the movement of the metal. If it is left alone, you can store your magazines loaded almost forever. They teach you this in the military.....
27 of 30
Im 6 years prior service. Us Army Field Artillery. We were issued the ole M-16A1, with both 20 and 30 metal mags. Our manuals and Drill Sgts told us to load 18 in a 20 rounder and 28 in the 30's. And I was raised being told to download firearm mags a round or two and to rotate loaded mags every 6 months. So I always have. I'm 60 now and have never had a mag spring go bad using these ideas. My AR-15 laying beside me at the moment has a 40 round Pmag in it , loaded with 37 rounds of IMI green tip 5.56. Current advice is totally oposite of what I was always taught. I believe a person should practice which ever way works for them and makes them happy. I will sign off with saying, the main problem I've had with mags over my long experience with firearms is with cheap, aftermarket magazines. After having complete failures with the first couple I bought when I was young, I've always refused to waste any money on them.
I don’t usually sub to shorts channels but since you made a mistake and actually corrected it that deserves a sub.
Same here
Same.
Same
Wasn’t even a mistake he just made something up that he had no idea was correct. And then everyone in the comments called him an idiot.
@@JuristPugilist A lot of people, especially internet goers, would still not admit fault. In the context of the internet, he does still stand out in a good way.
Good on you for the corrections bro.
Many people can't admit
@@YedolfWesler A lot of people pride themselves on “sticking to their principles,” but then they start being stubborn and arrogant as well and stuff like what you say happens. Luckily at least I am starting to see some real change for the better in people in recent years.
It takes the better man to admit he he was wrong. You sir are that man. Stay humble brother.
Thank God to Answer that question 🙋♂️. Simple Answers are the best and Thank You 🙏 for the research!!!! Some one that actually talked to the manufacturer and got a straight answer!!!
I had 5 PMAGs (gen2's) loaded to 30, in the trunk of my Patrol car in the SE US for 8 years. The only time they got "unloaded" was when I used up my duty ammo for annual quals. Then immediately reloaded and back in the go-bag. Probably got up to 140-150F in the trunk during day shifts. Emptied them for the last time before I retired and zero issues. Handed them back into supply to be re-issued at the range for training use.
BASED and kudos brother. Videos like this with civilian "clowns" make me cringe!
@@BillRupp-h4xAre you in the military?
@@BillRupp-h4xnot all is civilians are dumb lmao just some get way to invested into shit
The fact that Bro calls them "clips",not magazines,tells something
@@Charles-wr8myhe's talking about the clips that go over the feed lips
It takes a big man to admit when he was wrong.
no it doesn't that's just a normal thing
I just temporarily identify as a woman when I’m wrong
An even bigger one to make a public statement👍
@@captainjames4649Should be a normal thing but it isn't anymore
*Donald Trump left the chat*
I treat gun advice videos like gym advice videos, with a grain of salt 😂
Multiple deployments will tell you the mags work fine regardless of the cover on top or loaded to full
It's funny you say that because gun guys and gym guys come in a lot of the same flavors😂
Imy co-workers and I were talking about annoying gun guys and one of them goes. Yeah just like guys at the gym are like that.
“Why storing your mags full are killing your gains bro!”
I've realized that if you listen to all gym and gun advice you find online the end result would be you'd never work out again and you'd sell your gun back to the gov
saw a youtube video today telling people not to floss their teeth that it causes gum damage and cavities..Thats the internet for ya
I’ve heard it’s bad to store mags loaded but I’ve done it all my life, I’ve had an ak mag that’s been full since I bought it 8 years ago, I shoot it time to time but always refill and store it loaded, still works like it’s supposed to
Imagine having to load 30 rounds, chamber a round and then defend yourself!
Don't forget the upside down magazine duct taped Nam style AND the 2 other dual mags inside your level 4 vest.
That was my thought, exactly!
What's the point in having it, if it's not ready to use!
@@thisismagacountry1318 I went straight to the 100 round drum mags, lot funner 🫡
Ask Steven Willeford how that feels. I bet he NEVER goes along with that NRA "store your guns and unloaded mags and ammo separately" bullshit again, after having to load his mag while hearing his friends and neighbors die with every shot inside that church across the street from him.
@@enchentez no doubt
Magpul is right, their feed lips and springs won't wear out. But I worked as a security contractor and we swapped over from USGI aluminum mags to PMags. After 6 months I inspected all of the mags we had issued to personnel and those staged at fighting positions. Not including our training mags, out of 450 mags which were kept loaded the whole time and not cycled by using at the range for training, I found over 50 mags that were split along the center of the back of the magazine.
All the magazines were bought at the same time so possibly it was a defective batch, but none of my personal mags have split which I've kept loaded for the past 10 years, with the covers installed.
I don't know how anyone can say the dust covers don't take pressure off the feed lips when you can see them push the rounds down off the feed lips when installed! Yes, they keep dust and debris out of the magazine, but it also takes pressure off the feed lips.
Man I got into it on FB with "the guy who designed them" about this whole thing. He said it was a load of shit and I pretty much regurgitated what you did and he said I was a liar and I told him he was ignorant.
One day, we'll all be able to unload our mags and breathe easy.
Those dust covers also keep your spare mag from allowing the top round to drift (from recoil) when stacked and used with, say, a Magpul mag connector
You mean the milspec ones I've had stored in my cabinet since I lfet the Corps post Desert Storm??? Shits-giggles ran a few of them through my AR with ZERO ISSUES. These internet arseclown wanna be's drive me nuts.
@@johnjones2341
I've got over 500 UTM mags witch are very similar to gen2 Pmags but blue, this is consistent with how they fail as well, they'll start with a small crack and eventually the lips spread (nice) enough that the mag gets barely bumped and just dumps it's load out (nice)
At the risk of sounding fudd, technically it's apples to oranges as a UTM mag isn't a P mag but because of this, I'm a believer in 28rds on polymer mags without spring steel lips.
Do what you want obviously but -2rds is cheap and easy insurance.
“Never store a mag loaded”
*hears burglar enter home; opens box of 5.56 and starts loading three mags*
Three mags for one burglar, are you redoing the walls or something
Metal mags, we kept our metal mags full 24/7 in the army without any issues...
That's exactly what the internet needs. Humbleness and accountability. Well played sir.
Humility is the word you were looking for.
An empty gun is worthless.
useless*
@@ceothirty Yes.....much better word.
You can throw it!
So true, I can't imagine telling the bad guy to wait while load a magazine.
you can beat people with it
Automatically subscribed, good attitude bro. Refreshing to have transparency
My uncle gave me his WW2 M1 Carbine. And a full unopened 600 round spam can. And, twenty 15 round original mags all loaded in the 60’s. Not one failure among them.
Do you mean, a M1 Carbine or the gun he was issued in WW2?
@@blackbetti gun he was issued and carried. He bought the spam can of ammo in the 60’s. Said he paid $25 for it. No idea what that can of ammo is worth now.
I honestly didn't even know they had dust covers for magazines, that's pretty cool
The fact that you released a public retraction/correction is even cooler. Takes a big man to admit you were wrong, especially publicly.
On the bright side, that shows you're reliable. I'mma subscribe :D
A mag will not wear from loaded storage it is a spring and a follower ...repaeted loading and unloading is what causes spring wear just like the springs on your car they won't ever go bad with 4000 lbs sitting on them its the repeated expanding an contracting of the spring that causes failure ... same for any spring incuding your gun mags
That’s theory isn’t completely correct because the springs in your vehicle well 99% of vehicles use struts and are nitrogen filled. Even vehicles with coil overs now are not load bearing on the springs at dead weight. A compressed spring basically slowly starts to bend over time. So slowly depending on the type of steel and it’s hardness, thickness and how much energy it’s holding. Are you storing it in a gun and a round chambered so it’s really at 29 rounds? Are you Storing it’s at 30 or crammed at 31. Yes I’ve seen that done more than once. Everything makes a difference. Repeatedly loading and unloading is increasing wear through use and does promote faster wear. But that doesn’t mean a loaded mag doesn’t take on wear either.
@@XxBigDAWG22xXWhen it comes to automotive suspension, you have no idea what you are talking about. Take the springs off a coil-over, and the vehicle will sit at full travel on the bump-stops. The nitrogen in shock absorbers is there to prevent cavitation and aeration of the shock oil. The increased internal pressure also raises the boiling point of the shock oil.
@@btdtalso I mean my truck only has nitrogen shocks. My four wheeler suspension will sit on the floor of their isn’t nitrogen in it. My post driver will not fire without nitrogen. I work with nitrogen everyday. You don’t have a clue what your talking about. They work in conjunction but nitrogen is the biggest contributor
@@btdtalso also note we are taking a 1/32” spring not a 1/2” spring
@XxBigDAWG22xX I've been working on race cars, motorcycles, and just about every type of vehicle there is for over 50 years. The nitrogen in automotive shocks, struts, and coil-overs is there to prevent cavitation/aeration of the shock oil, and to raise the boiling point of the shock oil. Yes, there are "springless" nitrogen-filled "gas pressure shocks" on the market, but you will not find them on any stock automotive suspension. If you can point out any conventional automobile or truck that DOES NOT use springs as the primary load-bearing component of the suspension, I'll listen... otherwise, I'm not buying it.
This dude is awesome. I wish I could admit my mistakes like this guy did.
I had magpul first gen magazines loaded for idk man 10 close 15 years, and they still work very well
Me too.
Because it’s a myth and people just won’t let it die.
@@scottjohnson8576I’ve had mags of several types stay loaded for years and never fails. I’ve also had those same types/brands of mags fail in the same time frame. (BUT) not a single time has it been due to feed lips but actually spring failure. I’ve had them break or just lose their rebound because the memory in the steel itself starts to become more natural in its compressed state. Typically on those it would feed part or most of a mag and just have a feed failure around 4-5 rounds left. I think it solely comes down to what grade steel was really used in the spring. I also will say it’s been far less that have failed than those that didn’t. But I have always stored my loaded mags at 20rds since and never had a single failure in recent years.
What a boss! Owning up and fixing the story! This guy should be on the news!
I agree, but it doesn't seem to be stopping all the people who still seem to think they need to offer corrections and explanations in response to his correction.
@@titusdaniel that’s people for you though, bunch of negative energy
I bet they wished I didn’t store my mags loaded. My guns are for Emergency purposes.
I respect people owing up on their mistakes publicly. I wish you the absolute best on your journey.
You’re good brother, what’s important is that you admitted your faults on even such an insignificant mistake
It's not insignificant. Don't you want to be able to rely on you last two or three rounds? You were dumb for even listening.
I wish they covered springs in high school physics. It would end a lot of these discussions. Springs get worn out from compressing AND decompressing. The cycle is what wears them out. You can store mags loaded or unloaded for years. Either way, there is still tension on them because the springs' relaxed state is actually taller than the magazine.
Except in this case(magpul) it was not about the springs, it was about the plastic feed lips bowing outward in high heat environments over long periods of time. Possibly even room temp environments.
@@miltechmoto never had issues with multiple deployments. I have have used the same mags over and over again since 2010 and not one of them had these issues. Extremely hot or cold climate, dust covers or not, not an issue on springs or feed lips. I have seen the wear issue on the feed lips from people loading improperly
@@dos_romeo4937 2010? so like gen 2 mags? how about storage in enclosed vehicles? and how long were they stored?
The only feed lips I've seen worn out were my last date's. 😏
The clips on the pmags also allow you to transport them on planes while loaded. Normally your ammunition has to be separate from mags and the gun. But with the top clip on the mag, the mag is considered the box for the ammunition, making it legal to fly with.
you have a source for this?
Good to know. I would probably still take out the ammo just to be safe though.
@@DiBaccoDetails na just experience, feel free to Google though
I think it was an old James Yeager video from back in the day that taught me that. Would highly recommend taking the tactical response class "the fight" for all who read this. It's the best class out there for conceal and carry
@@tjlures you say it's from back in the day, so I'm curious if that's still the case to this day. But, then again, this does sound accurate for TSA and FAA regs and the US government being so behind on some things and completely not thinking on others.
You have earned my subscribe with your correction and honesty. Hats off to you and I will be enjoying your vids!
Over 10 years loaded zero issues
Takes a man to admit when he was wrong. Respect.
Admitting when you are wrong is the first step to learning. Hell yeah dude.
Cool to see your open the new ideas and realize your capable of being wrong.
Ive worked in the industry for quite awhile as a gunsmith and let me tell you the number one issue is people parroting information that is either flat out wrong or is eventually repeated incorrectly. I see it on a daily basis, the internet is both a blessing and a major curse.
The way mag springs are coiled is designed so that the spring can be fully compressed with out reaching anywhere near its point of yield. That is the point in which you bend a metal past the point where it will return to its original shape. Look up the stress strain curve, elasticity vs plasticity, and yielding. This is why those springs use a box shaped coil, utilize as much length as they can between loops, and many loops over a long distance. It's to maintain elasticity over long periods of storage under compression. The thing you have to worry more about is your feed lips on cheap mags deforming from the pressure. Had that happen to some cheap aluminum mags over some years. Buy steel or polymer they're better. You get what you buy.
mag pull says the clip is used to keep pressure off the feed lips as well.
Major respect for owning up to a mistake, humility is worth more than gold these days. Subbed.
This is true. You can store AR/AK type mags loaded, no problem.
WARNING, do not do this with Ruger 10/22 25 round mags! I have several that no longer feed because I left them loaded for too long, and the coiled "clock spring" in the Ruger Mags will lose tension over time.
Springs are springs. As long as you don't over extend them, they work just fine. Your cars suspension uses springs, and even after hundreds of thousands of miles and constant load cycling, they still bounce back
Usually after 100k (150k is pushing it) you need new shocks and struts. Obviously every car and driving habits affect the life cycle of them and there’s always going to be the few who differentiate between the common.
@@08HR350zwhat the hell do shocks or struts have to do with talking about springs? The shock or strut cartridge is what wears, an average vehicle will never need new springs.
@@throbbinwoodofcoxley6830 Uhh not sure what happened but my comment was posted on a car video not sure how it got on here 😂
Mad respect for correcting yourself. I wish more people with an audience did that. It’s impossible to be 100% accurate but it is possible to be 100% honest. Salute bro
The science of springs is concrete at this point. We use them in almost every mechanical design. A spring fully compressed does not wear faster than one without tension. The only way it could possibly do so is if you heat the metal or introduce it to other stresses such as water or corrosive substances. Primarily just heat though. So store your LOADED magazines in a cool dry dark place and they'll be fine. An unloaded magazine is worthless and you're going to end up dead when you need it most. What will wear them out is constant duty cycles (loading and unloading them). So if you're unloading your mags every night you will eventually lose tension. In fact what generally kills the tension in a spring from duty cycles is... say it with me HEAT. Because cycles induce heat. Have you ever broken a piece of metal (say a coat hanger) by bending it back and forth? Notice how it heats up at the stress point? It can even burn you. Also if you don't break it notice how the metal isn't as rigid even after cooling in some cases (depending on alloy composition) and it is less likely to return to its original form (plastic vs elastic deformation). If constant tension broke springs you couldn't have recoil springs in a firearm since they are constantly under tension while sitting doing nothing. You couldn't have garage doors (tracks die first due to tension from cycles, not the springs) or shocks. You couldn't have most modern mechanical marvels without easily deduced spring duty life and understanding the strain when compressed. The only strain on the spring while compressed is the initial compression, not staying at that state for an extended period. Springs are designed to not undergo plastic deformation while at their max load (where the spring is fully compressed) via an easily calculated equation (unless the spring is designed by a literal jackass and you shouldn't be buying products from jackasses). Energy doesn't come out from a worm hole to heat up and destroy your springs while you sleep at night in your loaded magazine. I have 25 fully loaded PMAGs that are a little over 13 years old and 14 steel GI STANAG mags from the Vietnam era inherited from my elderly father. All of them have only ever been in a fully loaded state, except when I shoot them/reload them/clean them (and my dad did the same when he owned them). They all work as good as the day I got them because I store them in a cool dry place, clean them occasionally and lubricate/protect them. I do have some poorly made Korean magazines though that have failed not because of being loaded but because no amount of engineering time went into their spring design, it is just an inferior product.
There are other things to consider if you're psychotically unloading and reloading your magazines everyday like a neurotic lunatic. Can you guess what that is? Moisture ingress and corrosion. Believe it or not your skin is a living organ that secrets fatty oils that are mildly corrosive to many materials. Getting your greasy mitts all over exposed brass will cause corrosion on the case W(which could lead to an explosion and you don't want that) and moisture ingress into the primer (which means your gun won't go bang when you need it! why do you think high quality defensive ammo is nickle plated? Because they know you guys are going to be handling them frequently without shooting them, which is also why the primers are lacquered and the seat of the bullet by the neck is crimped and annealed). If you're still not convinced I'll get into the literal science of spring cycles, plastic-vs-elastic deformation and more in a reply. Even provide you with formulas and and understanding of them.
TL;DR this is Fudd-lore and the internet is forever. Don't be a fool on the internet for your own sake. Don't be the butt of a joke for the amusement of others. Just trust your average mechanical engineer or even a high-school student with a moderate education in such things (this is part of common curriculum in American high-school).
You kinda sound like a know it all asshole. Bro. I like that. I'm going to subscribe in case you make anything
Hey, At least you are MAN enough to admit when you're wrong and then make a vid to show and explain why you were wrong!!! Thank You for That!!! We absolutely Need More people to be this way!!! To not let your pride stop you from learning and then teaching others truth!!! That's the qualities of a Great MAN!!!
Bro, I was one of the guys who called you out and got into quite an argument or 6 in the comments.
Mighty great of you to come back and correct the record. Much respect.
For everyone who doubted me: I took names. I will remember. I am coming for you.
Easy there big guy ... just take the W an drive on
@@user-kv3ut6pv4b I am proud of the author, but I want unarmed combat with every needle d*ck that questioned me in the comments.
I will not stop until I achieve total domination.
Ain't no one give a fuck💀
Get em all. Spreading misinformation got us here in the first place
New gun owners should not try to teach others when they dont know them selves....come back when you know what your talking about or s.t.f.u
I ended the video the moment you called it a clip. 😂🤣🤦🏼♂️
He was referring to the clip-on "dust cover" you put over the top of the mag, not the mag itself
❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️
@@caged3249of course he couldn't get that because he ended the video. At least he took the time to comment and let us know he didn't watch it. LOL! The fact that the guy called it a magazine before he referred to the clip on cover shows not only did he not watch it but he's not smart enough to figure things out.
Only a true man admits he was wrong.
Man is always wrong if he’s standing in the near vicinity of a damn woman!
@@thomasgodfrey2014 you are either right, or you’re the husband!!
Both.
Does a true man also disable the dislike button while keeping the like button enabled, thus shielding himself from any negative opinions?
Not that I disliked the video, I just find it extremely cowardly when any content creator either disables dislikes, disables comments or deletes comments they don't like.
@@Commodore22345 you’re an idiot. You can’t just disable likes. That’s how it is now.
The dust cover also appeared to push down the rounds, thereby reducing pressure on the feed lips.
They may not be able to CLAIM it reduces fatigue on the feed lips but by it pushing the top round down, it does in fact take all the pressure off of said lip
I RESPECT UA-camrs who can be humble, and say, "sorry, I made an error, let me fix this". I hate the ones who resort to excuses, technicalities, and even insults, when you point out their mistake. I will PROUDLY subscribe to anything you do in the future
Dude, you’re cool.
Admitting when you’re wrong and issuing redactions.
Thank you.
Subbed. ❤
Clear-eyed honesty got you another sub.
Springs just don’t wear out like that, it’s the repeated compression that wears them out
Exactly to many are all over the place with this silliness.
They can take a set tho, and may not feed well when getting down on rounds in the mag. Not a big deal, just give them a stretch.
The theory is that with pmags, since they're plastic, it warps your feed lips from the constant pressure. Just Google "pmag feed lip".
@@wolf-ls7jx Saw a guy stretch his springs put for his mags in Iraq back in 2007. It caused them all to malfunction when he next used them. They were the GI mags that the Corps issued us.
Anyway, that idea backfired on him.
@@Dead_Again1313 depends on the application. If I leave my pistol mags loaded for a few weeks they hang up and they are Sig Sauer factory mags. That's why I rotate mags. Springs will weaken when compressed for long periods. Some mags I load half and that doesn't seem to affect them. It's when they're fully compressed that they take a set, especially shotgun mag tube springs.
THANKS. Admitting that you're wrong is never an easy thing. Correcting yourself is even better. THANK YOU FOR BEING A HUMAN AND KNOWING IT. I had been taught the same thing, now I know that I was wrong as well.
Already deserves more subs than half the channels on UA-cam because he admitted he was wrong. Props G 🤙🏼
very true. but also why get on and confidently say shit that's wrong to begin with? Just makes you look foolish. Especially when it has to do with firearms of all things. If you wanna be wrong and it not matter, be wrong about how long to microwave a hot pocket. But now days everyone is a master at their hobby cause thyme been in it 6 months. fuckin UA-cam
What a stand up dude to correct himself I applaud you
Fudd lore defeated.
I only load 5 rounds in a 30rd magazine. It makes it incredibly more easy to press the bolt release. It's also less pressure on the magazine spring so you don't gouge the bottom of the bolt carrier with the brass. I've been doing this for years, and I know it works because my Red Dot has never lost 'zero'...
Springs do not wear from being compressed. Period.
uhm they do
Exactly, it only happens during repeated use over time, that's when they crack, but other then that you should be fine...
@@robert-h2x Have you ever heard of a comma or period?
@@robert-h2x🤓🤓
A study [ test ] was dun on that, u right.
It's not the stress that wears the mags out, it's the fatigue from use
This is basic mechanics of materials. The de Haviland Comet is a great example that static loads do not equate to dynamic loads.
Springs absolutely weaken from creep. Many springs fail because of this.
If you have no other design constraints, typically you can engineer a spring that will minimize creep.
The deHaviland Comet failed because of an exceptionally poor window design that caused cracking with fatigue loading via cabin compression cycles. It is not a fatigue versus creep discussion - or have you just missed that airplanes haven’t been falling out of the skies the past 80 years due to explosive decompression?
@@stevebean1234 the amount creep will contribute to a failure to feed a round in a standard magazine is pretty minimal. Hell, I've never even used any enough to have the issue (also, according to politicians, once you use them all once, there will be none left). As for the Comet, it was airframe stress. Similar issues in aviation arose under vertical fatigue of the wings. Though they could withstand large static loads, designers apparently never disassembled paperclips as kids.
@@stevebean1234 springs weaken from creep when magazines are poorly designed. A properly designed magazine will prevent the spring from being deformed into the plastic region and will instead keep the sping in the elastic region. If this is done properly there will be no recognizable creep in the magazine
@@zchris87v80 yes minimal but its there annnd yes those springs have been engineered to take more beating.. but to say it doesnt creep is ...........
I worked in an arms room in Germany while waiting for my security clearance and remember doing an ammo inspection with my lieutenant. Our security forces were issued 28 rounds to load in a 30 round magazine and then also given two foil packets each holding three loaded 20 round magazines (5.56 mm) These would fit neatly in the soldiers two ammo pouches on our LBE. Apparently moisture had gotten into the foil packets when they were sealed and about 90 percent of what we opened had rusted away springs and we poured the rounds out of the mags just like water. So if your mags have metal springs and they are stored in an area where moisture might get to them then I would recommend you inspect them frequently or the day when you really need them comes they may fail you.
I used a really old trick to counter this actually. I put them in an airtight sealed ammo box with a mini burlap bag full of rice to absorb any moisture that may have been present when sealing the container. I live in a very hot and humid climate so I do my best to ensure preserving ammunition and firearms properly.
EVERYONE makes mistakes, so props to this content creator for being a man and admitting when he was wrong.
*Note - I, on the other hand, am never wrong. I once thought i was wrong, but i was mistaken.
What good is an unloaded gun
Door stop
Called them clips. Thought loading mags was bad. You’re 2 for 2.
That's what I'm saying. I wouldn't trust this guy to give me a free water🤣
Basic terminology should be easy....
He's talking about the clips that go on top of the mags...
😂😂
You should delete this comment 😂
He's not calling the magazine a clip. You are one of those guys that love correcting people so much, you do it without thinking. Lol
Good on you for correcting.
Springs don't wear out from being compressed. They wear from being cycled from compression to extension and back.
Credibility restored! A man of integrity will always own his mistakes. Well done!
Again number 1 rule of gun law safety treat every weapon as if it's loaded even if it isn't that's how you prevent accidental life changing mistakes
Really props to this guy for making a counter video to what he thought was right. Correcting your statement and admitting something is the strongest talent a creator can have. Just subscribed.
I worked at a gun store for years. Widows would occasionally bring in their husband’s gun collections to get rid of them. Some of the magazines had been stored loaded since WWII or the Korean War. They always worked.
A pal inherited a WW2 .45 , wrapped in an oily rag in 1995. He went to a range, got a full cleaning. original ammo , mag spring and gun fired flawless .
Well managed, brother. Good to see an uploader who doesn't let their pride and ego get in the way of public self-reflection. I had a few older Magpul magazines that have been full for years that I've neglected, and recently took them to the range to clear em out the fun way. They're great products that work like a charm!
I was always worried about this, but never asked the question. Thanks!!
I contacted Magpul tech support and asked about storing loaded magazines...
Magpul told me they have stored full magazines for 7 1/2 years with NO bad effects.. Magpul tech stated the only thing that wears down the spring , is using it.. A fully compressed spring retains the factory tension just like an empty magazine , even when compressed for years..The ONLY thing that weakens the spring , is using it..and the metal they use should last for thousands of full compression/full release cycles.
You can store metal mags for years without issues. I moved away from the plastic mags for long term storage when full.
All this talk about spring only, but not much about feed lips.
I don't keep all my mags fully loaded for years and years, I really don't see the point in doing that.
However, I am more concerned about feed lip spread than springs set or weakening. I personally like the idea of the magpul dust cover that takes the pressure off the feed lips.
Correct! I took metallurgy in school because I was going to be a structural engineer. Metals fatigue and wear out due to movement. So, loading and using your magazines slowly wears them out. But simply storing mags loaded. There is no movement of the spring. So there should be no fatigue, and no wear taking place. It's fine to store them loaded.
That's why all my mags are metal, and I remember how many bullets are in each mag that I load.
I stored by PMags for 10 years. No issues when I took them out to the range.
Can confirm, I'm buddies with magpuls vp, I asked him the other day about mag storage. No dust cover needed, and they were designed to be stored loaded for years
Good on you for coming back to this 👍
Respect brother, most wouldn't make a vid like this. 🤙🏽🤙🏽
Springs wear from working... loading and unloading actually wears the spring more than just storing them loaded. Good on you for taking initiative and finding out.
If you store a loaded mag it will be utterly fine for decades. the biggest factor for concern is preventing humidity from corroding the metal or roughing the surfaces. another helpful tip is load them minus 1 round for a pistol or minus 2 rounds for a rifle to reduce tension of the spring. I have several mags I have left loaded for decades. some surplus mags and others brand new in their day. all of them work fine and a new spring is like five dollars.
Props on 1. Staying open minded and hearing, realizing, accepting and admitting your video was wrong. And 2. Posting this video to attempt to correct the issue and pass along the best, newest information to us all. Thanks.
A real man admits his mistakes. Much respect to you.
I was told to store a loaded clip with one shell less than capacity. It's pouring your ammo into an ammo box that is bad. It corrupts the casings.Ammo differs also crappy ammo rolls out of the gun. Good ammo flies out.
You've ended no fudd lore this day. Nay, you've made it stronger
I store my magazines empty and in a separate safe from my guns, that are also stored with the lower and upper separated. I also store my ammo separate, in another room. My magazine spring was also removed as well.
The weapons and this set-up is in a different house than the house that you live in. Correct. A house your mother in law has the only keys. 😂❤😅
You might as well not have any guns, by the time you gather everything it is probably too late to defend yourself anyway!
@@Jamoke67 I vote for Harris.
@@xnetc9
That’s a big surprise, why not turn your guns into her, lol
Beautiful video with great information. I always wondered about this. But then again, i always store mine full and haven't had an issue, but if i did, it would be totally worth buying new mags rather than getting caught with your pants down. As far as the dust cover , I use 7.62x39 platforms, so I purposely allow dust sand and grime everywhere because i know my machines loves it. Let er eat boys!
Old spring steel is what caused this whole arguement. Modern springs in these mags in reality should last 15 years plus+. 8 years and they should be flawless after 10 years + you may start seeing a malfunction from time to time.