Thanks for making these videos. As a Melbournian, for a long time I assumed Sydney never had a tram network. Learning about the history of this network is fascinating. It's also a real shame that Sydney decided to get rid of the whole network. Getting around by tram in the 50s must have been a pleasant experience as long as it wasn't raining.
Another excellent video. To answer your question, Californian Combination cars were open on each end with a saloon in the middle. It was a common style in California. The concept was used to allow more room for smokers!
Thank you for this amazing presentation and journey back in time. I find it interesting that the trams would have staff change over (staff relief is the correct terminology) on the road adjacent to the depot to avoid taking the tram into the depot. The Leichhardt and Ryde Bus Depots continued this practice until recently and I remember carrying out this procedure when I drove the buses between 1980 & 2013. Excellent video and I look forward to your next presentation.
Thank AJ. great info. I live on the Northern Beaches so often see driver changes outside of the Brookvale and Mona Vale Depots... funny to see passengers get a bit anxious when the driver gets of... and in the old days they would take the cash and Ticket box (you'd have a more official name for that?) off as well.. but with Opal it's way simpler...
@BackTracks.Channel You're very welcome 👍. You are correct, and I would always make an announcement advising the passengers of the driver change, which I know most drivers didn't do. The correct terminology is "cash tray" and "ticket case." I prefer the old days when drivers interacted with their passengers instead of the many deadpan and unsociable drivers we see today.
I was made a train and tram buff by my father taking me to Enfield and Loftus as a child in the early 70's. I later worked as a Police Officer out of Glebe/Leichhardt. I knew of the Rozelle tram sheds but never knew of the abandoned trams (or all the graffiti) until I left the area. I would have made it a regular stop if I had known. I believe the trams that were taken away later went to Loftus, a restored one returned and I think one went overseas.
From memory there were about 5 of them. Yes I one definitely was restored at Bendigo and then returned to the shopping centre. I should look up one day where the others went. I am sure they have to be been preserved.. hope so.
Thanks for another great video. Lovely to see the way, even utilitarian buildings like tram sheds, were well built and visually appealing. Unlike modern concrete blobs. It seems as though you are down a historical rabbit hole and taking us along! Loved the integration of old photos with current footage.🚃🚃🥂
After having visited the Newtown Depot to get footage for this video (was on my way to a pub to meet friends) I agree... these depots were pretty simple in construction but even so they had a unique style... I don't think many of our 'bus depots' in 100 years will be afforded the same accolades.
Hi Marty…here I go again..my last address is Sydney was Petersham and on several of the main arterial roads around my place remains the evidence of where train lines ran. Thank you for another fascinating video..I am slowly going through your earlier uploads…I have a long way to go. Thanks again Zoltán
I’ve explored those Rozelle tramsheds a few times before they were converted to a shopping centre. The trams there were all graffitied and all their glass windows were shattered. Good to see one has been restored. Also, there was an old bus in there. I wonder what happened to that.
Yes wish I had have known about the trams being there all those years ago. Would have loved to get some film of that. Good question about the bus. Did see that in some of the pictures. Am sure it would have been preserved by someone.
The California Combination car was a tram design first used in Brisbane. The first were imported for the Brisbane System by Joseph Badger (see book "one two many Americans") They were used in Brisbane & 2 are still around at the Brisbane Tram Museum No 46 (wrecked) & 47 operational.
My guess is that the 'California combination seating' comes from the California Street cable cars in San Francisco. To this day, you can hang off the side of those, as they grab a physical moving cable in a slot in the bitumen, and slowly climb over Nob Hill. And although the cable cars are much smaller than trams, the combination of seating arrangements on the California Street line looks like those Sydney trams (more than the other two remaining cable car lines do). You can also catch an old Melbourne tram up Market Street in San Francisco. With the additional trolley buses, and trams that fold away their stairs and become underground metros, and two entirely different suburban rail networks, I'd say it's the most interesting city for transport history in North America.
Thanks appreciate it. I’ve done a bit of filming on the Newtown tram depot. Just in case they knock it down or do anything in the meanwhile. I would like to make a video on that in the future.
The L/P-class tram was used almost exclusively by the Newcastle tramway system. I say "almost" because a photo I saw some time ago showed a tram of a different class. Its difference made it stick out like the proverbial "sore thumb".
Thanks for the memory. Not sure if you experience the same but the photographic memories of the Newcastle system is not as good as the one for Sydney (yes for sure more people in sydney at the time...) Would be great to do a Newcastle video but just can't find the enough historical images on the net to do so... Not sure if you see the same?
@@backtracks.channel There are some books on the Newcastle Tramways(Steam-powered from the 1880s to 1923, then electric-powered from 1923 until closure in 1950). You might find some material on the "net".
@@brianb8516 I saw a photo of a tram depot in Newcastle, likely the Hamilton depot. Yes there were predominantly L/P-class trams but there were a couple that were of another class. Only a couple, mind you, but still different to the L/P-class.
Thanks. It was one of the earlier ones.. so may have gone up before you ticked.. a bit of a learning though is that anything I post with word "DEPOT" in seems to not to go as well. (I think because it sounds boring :) )
I'm in my 70s and remember the trams in Sydney One thing I did not know that Harold Park Paceway was originally called Epping. i would like to know the history behind that. My father used to tell me that it was called Harold Park after a goat that used to roam the then quarry. He would go on to say that the goats relatives were still racing today.
Hi MF, good question about the history of the Harold Park name. Yes your father was probably right about having goat's relatives racing in later year. Just hope he hadn't placed a bet on those. I looked up WIKIPEDIA and it says "On 21 March 1929, due to confusion of the name with the Sydney suburb, the track was renamed from Epping to Harold Park, after the imported trotter Childe Harold, one of the great progenitors of the stock of the early trotting days. The Kentucky-bred Childe Harold was imported from Glasgow, Scotland by Andrew Town of Richmond."... we shouldn't believe everything on the internet.. but this sounds plausable?
@@backtracks.channel Thanks for the interesting content. That's an interesting story with the association of a goat with a sporting facility. I am familiar with another story with a Billy Goat that whose owner was said to have cursed the Chicago Cubs MLB team. It's a drawn out story but a quick search lists all the details
Yes agree.. I believe both were drop centre type trams.. and I would guess that the Sydney and Brisbane operators would have looked to each other for inspiration. The Phoenix trams did lack a bit of character though don't you think?
Thanks for making these videos. As a Melbournian, for a long time I assumed Sydney never had a tram network. Learning about the history of this network is fascinating. It's also a real shame that Sydney decided to get rid of the whole network. Getting around by tram in the 50s must have been a pleasant experience as long as it wasn't raining.
Glad you like them!. Agree about the weather.. It was cold and raining when I shot some of the video - and that was now in December 2023.
Another excellent video. To answer your question, Californian Combination cars were open on each end with a saloon in the middle. It was a common style in California. The concept was used to allow more room for smokers!
Thanks for the info! Time have certainly changed in how we accommodate smokers..
Thank you for this amazing presentation and journey back in time. I find it interesting that the trams would have staff change over (staff relief is the correct terminology) on the road adjacent to the depot to avoid taking the tram into the depot. The Leichhardt and Ryde Bus Depots continued this practice until recently and I remember carrying out this procedure when I drove the buses between 1980 & 2013. Excellent video and I look forward to your next presentation.
Thank AJ. great info. I live on the Northern Beaches so often see driver changes outside of the Brookvale and Mona Vale Depots... funny to see passengers get a bit anxious when the driver gets of... and in the old days they would take the cash and Ticket box (you'd have a more official name for that?) off as well.. but with Opal it's way simpler...
@BackTracks.Channel You're very welcome 👍. You are correct, and I would always make an announcement advising the passengers of the driver change, which I know most drivers didn't do. The correct terminology is "cash tray" and "ticket case." I prefer the old days when drivers interacted with their passengers instead of the many deadpan and unsociable drivers we see today.
I was made a train and tram buff by my father taking me to Enfield and Loftus as a child in the early 70's. I later worked as a Police Officer out of Glebe/Leichhardt. I knew of the Rozelle tram sheds but never knew of the abandoned trams (or all the graffiti) until I left the area. I would have made it a regular stop if I had known. I believe the trams that were taken away later went to Loftus, a restored one returned and I think one went overseas.
From memory there were about 5 of them. Yes I one definitely was restored at Bendigo and then returned to the shopping centre. I should look up one day where the others went. I am sure they have to be been preserved.. hope so.
Thanks for another great video. Lovely to see the way, even utilitarian buildings like tram sheds, were well built and visually appealing. Unlike modern concrete blobs. It seems as though you are down a historical rabbit hole and taking us along!
Loved the integration of old photos with current footage.🚃🚃🥂
After having visited the Newtown Depot to get footage for this video (was on my way to a pub to meet friends) I agree... these depots were pretty simple in construction but even so they had a unique style... I don't think many of our 'bus depots' in 100 years will be afforded the same accolades.
Hi Marty…here I go again..my last address is Sydney was Petersham and on several of the main arterial roads around my place remains the evidence of where train lines ran.
Thank you for another fascinating video..I am slowly going through your earlier uploads…I have a long way to go.
Thanks again
Zoltán
I’ve explored those Rozelle tramsheds a few times before they were converted to a shopping centre. The trams there were all graffitied and all their glass windows were shattered. Good to see one has been restored. Also, there was an old bus in there. I wonder what happened to that.
Yes wish I had have known about the trams being there all those years ago. Would have loved to get some film of that. Good question about the bus. Did see that in some of the pictures. Am sure it would have been preserved by someone.
I think the trams were covered in so much graffiti spray paint, that it may have helped preserve them!
The California Combination car was a tram design first used in Brisbane. The first were imported for the Brisbane System by Joseph Badger (see book "one two many Americans") They were used in Brisbane & 2 are still around at the Brisbane Tram Museum No 46 (wrecked) & 47 operational.
My guess is that the 'California combination seating' comes from the California Street cable cars in San Francisco. To this day, you can hang off the side of those, as they grab a physical moving cable in a slot in the bitumen, and slowly climb over Nob Hill. And although the cable cars are much smaller than trams, the combination of seating arrangements on the California Street line looks like those Sydney trams (more than the other two remaining cable car lines do).
You can also catch an old Melbourne tram up Market Street in San Francisco. With the additional trolley buses, and trams that fold away their stairs and become underground metros, and two entirely different suburban rail networks, I'd say it's the most interesting city for transport history in North America.
Fantastic detail. I used to walk past the Newtown tram sheds for years and never realised what they were. 🤣
Thanks appreciate it. I’ve done a bit of filming on the Newtown tram depot. Just in case they knock it down or do anything in the meanwhile. I would like to make a video on that in the future.
The L/P-class tram was used almost exclusively by the Newcastle tramway system. I say "almost" because a photo I saw some time ago showed a tram of a different class. Its difference made it stick out like the proverbial "sore thumb".
Thanks for the memory. Not sure if you experience the same but the photographic memories of the Newcastle system is not as good as the one for Sydney (yes for sure more people in sydney at the time...) Would be great to do a Newcastle video but just can't find the enough historical images on the net to do so... Not sure if you see the same?
@@backtracks.channel There are some books on the Newcastle Tramways(Steam-powered from the 1880s to 1923, then electric-powered from 1923 until closure in 1950). You might find some material on the "net".
There were 251 L/P trams, only 98 of them went to Newcastle. They were the only electric passenger trams used there.
@@brianb8516 I saw a photo of a tram depot in Newcastle, likely the Hamilton depot. Yes there were predominantly L/P-class trams but there were a couple that were of another class. Only a couple, mind you, but still different to the L/P-class.
Most probably the C type breakdown car and the D type scrubber car. Early photos might have had some steam tram trailers hanging around.
Thanks for that. I enjoyed it and appreciate your effort to put it together
Glad you enjoyed it!
So interesting. thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Awesome history I get goose bumps seeing old footage of the Areas around Rozelle knowing that my family lived around those areas Thankyou
Glad you enjoyed it
Just as a note the Tramsheds was purchased and developed by Mirvac where I used to work
Thanks. Mirvac did a great job with the whole precinct.
Great video Marty. I have the notification icon ticked, but this seems to have slipped by for some reason.
Thanks. It was one of the earlier ones.. so may have gone up before you ticked.. a bit of a learning though is that anything I post with word "DEPOT" in seems to not to go as well. (I think because it sounds boring :) )
I'm in my 70s and remember the trams in Sydney
One thing I did not know that Harold Park Paceway was originally called Epping.
i would like to know the history behind that.
My father used to tell me that it was called Harold Park after a goat that used to roam the then quarry.
He would go on to say that the goats relatives were still racing today.
Hi MF, good question about the history of the Harold Park name. Yes your father was probably right about having goat's relatives racing in later year. Just hope he hadn't placed a bet on those. I looked up WIKIPEDIA and it says "On 21 March 1929, due to confusion of the name with the Sydney suburb, the track was renamed from Epping to Harold Park, after the imported trotter Childe Harold, one of the great progenitors of the stock of the early trotting days. The Kentucky-bred Childe Harold was imported from Glasgow, Scotland by Andrew Town of Richmond."... we shouldn't believe everything on the internet.. but this sounds plausable?
@@backtracks.channel Thanks for the interesting content. That's an interesting story with the association of a goat with a sporting facility. I am familiar with another story with a Billy Goat that whose owner was said to have cursed the Chicago Cubs MLB team. It's a drawn out story but a quick search lists all the details
Good 1, thanks
No problem 👍
Those R class trams look a little bit Brisbanes FM/Phoenix trams
Yes agree.. I believe both were drop centre type trams.. and I would guess that the Sydney and Brisbane operators would have looked to each other for inspiration. The Phoenix trams did lack a bit of character though don't you think?
THe access road down to the depot was MINOGUE Crescent, not Montague.
Thanks for the pick up. Not sure how I read that wrong. "I'm spinning around" as yes it clearly say Minogue Street. Cheers.
So which classwas nicknamed 'Toastrack'?
I think the O Class were the first to be called Toastracks by the Sydney press... but could be wrong?
Great thank you.🍺