North Sydney's Tramlines (And A Never Built Railway)

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  • Опубліковано 2 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 87

  • @ourjeffie
    @ourjeffie Рік тому +19

    We lived in North Sydney when I was a child, and as we didn't have a car we travelled everywhere by train and tram. I suspect I would be one of the very few people here who can claim to have travelled by tram, many times, across the Sydney Harbour Bridge, as well as on many of the other lines depicted here. Great video, brought back many happy childhood memories. Thanks!

  • @sixstringedthing
    @sixstringedthing Рік тому +7

    So we put in tramlines, then we rip them out to make room for motorways and six lane arterial roads, then we put a much more limited network of tramlines back in a few spots but we call it Metro Light Rail this time around because that sounds more fashionably modern than "trams"... such progress! :)
    Thanks for this interesting look at some almost forgotten local history. The comments are full of interesting bits and pieces too!
    Watching this has prompted me to go and use google maps to solve an old question regarding the sidings behind Luna Park and the loop of train line around Lavender Bay. I used to eat my workday lunch in the parklands down there, and I always wondered about this cool looking bit of elevated line which runs over a viaduct and disappears into a tunnel under King George St in McMahon's Point. A quick scroll with Maps reveals that the tunnel is only a short one - about 250M - which comes out on the other side of McMahon's point adjacent to French street. The single line then runs up the east side of Berrys Bay before joining the North Shore line just south of Waverton. I presume this spur used to serve the wharves and warehouses at what is now the Luna Park site on the eastern side of Lavender Bay/western side of Milsons Point. There were a bunch of the decommissioned Tangara commuter sets parked up there when the latest google maps image was taken. Anyway, always wondered about it and now I know, thanks to being reminded about it by watching a random video about Sydney's transportation history. So cheers for that!

    • @johno9507
      @johno9507 Рік тому +3

      My Aunt used to live in Billy Blues cottage on Commodore Cres, Blues Point, and I often wondered what those train lines were for.
      There's a lot of history in that area.

    • @jodij2366
      @jodij2366 Рік тому +3

      That line was the original North Shore line route to Milsons Point. After the Bridge was built, it was (and still is) used as storage sidings for empty trains.

    • @sixstringedthing
      @sixstringedthing Рік тому

      @@jodij2366 Thanks for the info Jodi!

  • @jonathanmichaelsmith9012
    @jonathanmichaelsmith9012 Рік тому +7

    Getting rid of trams in Sydney was a bad idea. Now they're putting them back in.

  • @ianm3959
    @ianm3959 Рік тому +6

    Thanks for producing these amazing videos on Sydney's trams! My Mum grew up in Willoughby and told me many times about catching the tram to Chatswood and then the train to school, as well as getting the tram to Balmoral Beach on the weekend. The whole system was long gone by the time I visited Sydney as a boy and I've always been fascinated by how Sydney must have looked when trams were the major form of road transport. Your videos give a glimpse of how it was back then.

  • @thomasbain9241
    @thomasbain9241 Рік тому +3

    Thanks for sharing, I really enjoyed your presentation. I grew up in the 1950s and lived at the George's heights army married quarters. Dad was a sergeant major. The trams from Mosman turned left at Gordon St. and terminated at Balmoral beach. That was about 400 metres from the the George's heights turn off. From there the private "blue bus " took us to George's heights and then then went to the navy base Penguin. The fare was one halfpenny!!! How times have changed. I miss those days. Thanks again God Bless

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  Рік тому +1

      Great story. Great memories.... BTW you may not have seen but I did a video on the Balmoral Line... but didn't include the shortlived George's Height's extension.. only because I couldn't find any images on the internet of a tram on that line at the time (I don't live too far from there, so did all the filming of the present day.. but have not used at this point).

  • @Traveltheme706
    @Traveltheme706 Рік тому +3

    I live in the Lane Cove area and this is very interesting, thank you

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  Рік тому +1

      Thanks. We'll do the Land Cove line at some point... I have done the filming of the line as at today.. but just need to get the historical photos and swot up on the history of the line...

  • @greghilton7797
    @greghilton7797 Рік тому +4

    I remember my mum taking me to the city and visiting stores like Anthony Hordens, Gowings and Marks & Spencer's on the tram. We lived on Willoughby Rd and the tram stopped right outside our door. Going across the bridge you could see the mothball fleet anchored by Taronga zoo. I also remember them pulling the tracks up and the noisy smelly Leyland Tigers that replaced them.

  • @merrylmarsh9037
    @merrylmarsh9037 Рік тому +2

    Memories for a childhood tram traveller. Thank You.❤

  • @zanelindsay1267
    @zanelindsay1267 Рік тому +4

    An interesting and informative video, Thank You. The maps are really good for illustrating the extent of the systems. Too many automobiles these days, I am nostalgic for the trams.

  • @robertthomson1587
    @robertthomson1587 Рік тому +12

    Really interesting. Thanks very much.
    I remember when I first moved to the North Sydney area in the mid 1980s that there were very odd starting times for the Sunday masses at St Mary's North Sydney (in Miller Street, opposite North Sydney Oval) e.g. 7.40am or 9.10am. I asked one of the older priests about this. He said that the strange starting times were a relic of the tram timetable that had been in force at the time when the trams were removed. Masses had been aligned with the arrival of the trams coming up the Miller Street hill.

  • @roadtonowherefilms
    @roadtonowherefilms Рік тому +6

    Wouldn't mind a tram down to Mosman Bay Wharf again...The current 230 bus schedule is designed to line up with the Ferry arriving, but almost every time you come into the wharf, they drive off before you have a chance to alight from the ferry!

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  Рік тому +3

      not good eh! but doing the research for these videos I read that coordinating with ferries and trains etc at either end was a challenge even then. Especially for the cross routes that had a ferry at one end and a train at the other (as an example). Maybe like death and taxes, the only other certain thing in life is public transport miss timed connections...

  • @griffinrails
    @griffinrails Рік тому +9

    Great video as always, can't wait for the next one.

  • @johno9507
    @johno9507 Рік тому +4

    I remember my dads (1931-1993) stories of the trams, but I had no idea the network was so extensive. 🇦🇺🙂

  • @davidcarter4247
    @davidcarter4247 Рік тому +5

    Maybe I missed it but the Wynyard tram terminus was underground and the only underground tram terminus in Australia. Wynyard station was build in an excavation, with Wynyard park put on top when finished. As mentioned there was a proposed Northern Beach railway line that did not go ahead and trams instead crossed the bridge. They went into the tunnel to what was going to be platforms 1 and 2. It is why Wynyard stations start at 3. When the trams stopped in 1958, the tram terminus was walled off from the rest of the station and converted to a car park for the Menzies Hotel. The Cumberland St exit from the car park used the old tram tunnel. The entrance was from Wynyard Lane behind the hotel in Carrington St.

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  Рік тому +1

      Yes an interestingly that Wynyard Lane carpark is now not open to public car parking now. I was told is has formed part of the carpark for the new NAB building - and you need a pass to get in now. I am going to have a look to confirm when I have a chance.

  • @cheekyMarc
    @cheekyMarc Рік тому +7

    If it had been left as it was Sydney's transportation to the north shore would be some of the best in the world between Trains, Trams, Buses and Ferries. So many less cars.
    I still think the bridge should return to having trams on it and down military road

  • @simonburke8341
    @simonburke8341 Рік тому +6

    That was so interesting!! Thank you for the wonderfully made documentary on a part of Sydney's great history!!

  • @20121961
    @20121961 Рік тому +6

    What a shame the line to The Spit, and beyond, was closed. It's much needed today! Great video, thanks. I even saw my apartment in one shot! 😀

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  Рік тому +1

      So much has changed in terms of public transit / roads /cars.. but we are still often living and working in buildings from the time. And these buildings are often way better constructed than the ones of today.

  • @peterbreis5407
    @peterbreis5407 Рік тому +8

    Just imagine if they had been kept and modernised just how much more pleasant North Sydney would be.
    What truly fascinates me is just how (deliberately?) badly transport is designed.

  • @doubledee9675
    @doubledee9675 5 місяців тому +2

    That ride down Parriwi St brings back memories......

  • @goto8438
    @goto8438 Рік тому +5

    I think the bus stop shed near the bathers pavilion at balmoral was a tram stop.

  • @RGC198
    @RGC198 Рік тому +2

    Hi Marty, Thanks for a great video. The North Sydney tram lines were always a favourite with me. I especially enjoyed crossing the Harbour Bridge in the trams. This seemed to be very unique for the trams, especially with them using the tunnel to Wynyard station. Incidentally, on Wynyard station, it was easy to see the trams from the railway platforms, as it was just divided by a wooden fence, similar to in a backyard. Anyway, take care. Rob in Melbourne Australia.

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  Рік тому

      Thanks Rob, I have been trying to get into the tunnels... and then saw VIVID were doing a tour of them.... so at the end of May I hope to share some great video of the tunnels. (not Cheap :) )

  • @Rheilffordd
    @Rheilffordd Рік тому +5

    Mate this is an excellent video and excellent content! Detailed, and straight to the point. Well done and hope your channel grows as I continue watching with great interest

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  Рік тому +2

      Thanks. Yes trying to balance keeping the content short and sharp.. but also realising the former Sydney tram network is a finite resource so don't want the series to end in 10 videos by doing it all too quickly :)

  • @ForTheBirbs
    @ForTheBirbs Рік тому +4

    Thanks for another great video!

  • @PeterYoung357
    @PeterYoung357 Рік тому +2

    Another great video. One tiny detail, I don't have the Keenan books but Ian McCowan's book says Northbridge was cut back to Falcon St in 1948 rather than 1958.

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  Рік тому +1

      Thanks for the info! I may have got it wrong. That line is an interesting one as it was cut back when the Suspension Bridge closed.. and then again to Falcon Street.. but War Austerity measures meant it was reinstated to Vale St.. but then again cut back.

  • @ktipuss
    @ktipuss Рік тому

    9:11 There was a connection from the North Shore rail line to the tramline at St Leonards Station, and it survived until the redevelopment of St Leonards Station in 1990. I have seen a photo taken in the 1920s I would assume of a steam tram motor towing a rake of three O Class trams on the North Shore Line near Artarmon. From 1934 onwards transfer of trams over the rail lines ceased and that "Lizard" vehicle took over.

  • @garybarford6108
    @garybarford6108 Рік тому +3

    Hi there, my mum was a conductor on the trams running out of North Sydney during WW2, it was noted in a Journal a few years ago, but I have not been able find it, it stated that she was one of the first to do so, her name was Grace Barford, maybe you might be able fine it, cheers Gary Barford

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  Рік тому

      Thanks Gary, great story. Let me note it down and i come across her name in research I'll drop you note. Thanks.

  • @RichardFelstead1949
    @RichardFelstead1949 Рік тому +1

    Just discovered your channel and have subscribed. I like the historical stuff including the "then and now" comparison photos.

  • @jonatankelu
    @jonatankelu Рік тому +5

    Good work on this series! I always wanted to do something like this. I have all of David R. Keenan’s books on Sydney’s trams.

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  Рік тому +3

      Those books are difficult to get now. Agree what a great record of our tram system. I have a number of them, but can't get my hands on a RYDE or EASTERN SUBURBS lines edition... happy to pay for a physical version or a digital one. The detailed history of operations is great, but I also love the personal stories of the people who ran the system then.. increasingly people who has passed on.. so the story only remains in these books.

    • @jonatankelu
      @jonatankelu Рік тому

      @@backtracks.channel true that! I only have one copy of each so would have to scan them for you. They’re in storage but not locally, so it will be a few weeks before I can get them. How can I get the scans to you when done?

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  Рік тому +2

      Hi, thanks for your kind offer (and sorry I missed seeing it until you mentioned the books just now). Much appreciated. We have done some searching and we think we can get a couple of them. So lets see how we go with that because we get you to go to the trouble of finding your books. Thanks again.

    • @jonatankelu
      @jonatankelu Рік тому

      OK, great! Keep up the good work, and let me know if you need anything down the track. Incidentally, I also have another book about the Parramatta / Castle Hill tram and later train.

  • @AlanDownunder
    @AlanDownunder 5 місяців тому +2

    The "tram bridge" was built for northern beaches trains. It would take them to North Sydney Station and to branching tunnels inside the tunnels north of North Sydney station,

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  5 місяців тому +1

      Thanks Alan. yes could you imagine today if the Warringah Railway had been built.. I would say the Northern Beaches would be a bit more like the Eastern Suburbs beaches today with much higher population..

  • @tobys_transport_videos
    @tobys_transport_videos 6 місяців тому

    Very well done!!! Despite all my knowledge of the Sydney Tramway system there is little even I can add to your coverage, except to say that there is "right of way" visible beside the road as the trams made their way up from the southern side of the Suspension Bridge to Clontarf. Also there used to be a painting of an O class at one of the waiting shelters at Balmoral Beach. Aside from the tunnel portals visible under the Cahill Expressway, that's about all I can think of to add to this video. 🙂

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  6 місяців тому +1

      Thanks for watching and thanks for the tips! I drive over the Suspension Bridge most work days.. so will have a look next time I am passing.

  • @MrMomo182
    @MrMomo182 Рік тому +3

    Originally, the tram up Miller and Falcon St was a cable tram, with the engine in The Independent Theatre building, so I understand. Streets like Falcon, which once had trams, are often the finest, well graded, and broadest of streets.

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  Рік тому

      Thanks. I travel past that theatre when I go to the office and had no idea.. would be a good topic for a video...

  • @josephj6521
    @josephj6521 Рік тому +5

    Revitalizing Pacific Hwy would be good (so far a freeway bypasses it up until Lane Cove). Between North Sydney and Lane Cove put back a tram line (possibly extending it to the zoo), widen the footpaths, remove car parking (replace with off-street parking underground or behind stores) and make the road a destination rather than an eyesore.

    • @peterbreis5407
      @peterbreis5407 Рік тому +1

      It would have been better to have tunneled under the Pacific Hwy with a metro line. It's all good sandstone and transport should follow people not the other way around. It seems like the planners work really hard at making it difficult, slow and inconvenient to get where you really want to go by public transport.

  • @harrycallahan9069
    @harrycallahan9069 5 місяців тому +2

    Without doubt 1 of the greatest stuff ups ever getting rid of trams

  • @GarethWalton2
    @GarethWalton2 Рік тому +2

    Great video 🙏🏻

  • @jess1234-b3t
    @jess1234-b3t Рік тому +2

    Great video!
    I think you said that the bridge from Nth Sydney station to the east side of the Hbr Bridge was built because it was decided to run trams instead of trains there. But my understanding is that the proposed train line would have crossed it into Nth Sydney station anyway (that’s why the station has 4 platforms and has tunnel stubs built in preparation for the northern beaches train line). Are you saying the bridge would have been built differently or more strongly if the trains had gone ahead?

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  Рік тому +1

      Thanks for the comment. When researching the video I found maps for the Bradfield plan which suggest the railway would have turned right after the bridge to head directly to Mosman. But after seeing your note I did more investigation and have found a more detailed plan that does suggest the railway was planned to go via North Sydney at one point. I'll make a note that accompanies the video. Thanks.

  • @brianmorris8045
    @brianmorris8045 Рік тому +1

    Great vid. Just curious that the map says Tarconga Park Zoo instead of Taronga Park Zoo. But a minor detail.

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  Рік тому

      Good pick up. Thanks. Probably looked at the video 10 times and didn't notice. No spell checker in video editing tools :) I corrected in future videos. Thanks again.

  • @LynelleGullick
    @LynelleGullick 3 місяці тому +1

    Thanks for all the tram information you're sharing!
    Is there an across board map, of Sydney's extensive tram system at the time? Something you can show (or maybe you already have 🤔)

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  3 місяці тому

      There are a few maps on line of the system.. there is a good one from the 1950s

  • @peteshobbyrailway9513
    @peteshobbyrailway9513 Рік тому +1

    Apart from a couple of brief mentions, you seem not to have covered the Georges Heights route - only open for six years! See p.47/48 in "The North Sydney Lines" by David Keenan.

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  Рік тому +1

      Thanks PHR, yes what a quirky line of the system. it seems they talked about opening the line longer than it operated. And then it closed and had to reopen when the USA fleet visited. I just mentioned it a bit more in the just published Balmoral Line video. But to be honest I can't find any licence free images of a tram on the line - I like to show a 'before' and 'after' in the videos.. but I have no 'before' so will keep looking... I have David Keenan's book (such a great record of the time) but I have not asked for approval to use the image he showed.

  • @brianmorris8045
    @brianmorris8045 Рік тому +1

    Do you plan to do a vid on the trams to the western suburbs...e.g Dulwich Hill terminus, Canterbury, Belfield, Belmore etc. Spent a lot of time in trams till Askin ripped them all out in efforts to 'modernize' Sydney...now Sydney has gone full circle and put trams back in some areas.

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  Рік тому

      Thanks. Hadn't thought too much ahead of what the future videos could be.. but the inner west had a very comprehensive and complex network - and four still standing depots. Would make for some good videos.

  • @josephbaho6836
    @josephbaho6836 Рік тому +2

    it still amazes me how Sydney had the answer to the current traffic issues today and it was removed. So sad and stupid. Melbourne has a lot of new advanced trams. If only sydney kept the tracks at least it wouldve been much easier

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  Рік тому

      Thanks for the comment. I have been thinking the same. When has any city since 1970 completely closed down a public transport network? Its just inconceivable what happened. But also I was born many years after the network closed so can't understand 'the temper of the time' (as Midnight Oil said in Power And The Passion a song about Sydney).

    • @jodij2366
      @jodij2366 Рік тому

      Melbourne was fortunate in some respects. Due to the thirty year monopoly the cable trams had received in 1885, it wasn't until the 1920s and 1930s that Melbourne got electric trams and therefore had a relatively new fleet in the 1950s whereas places such as Sydney had a relatively old fleet, including with cross bench cars which were a real safety hazard.
      Granted, there were sufficient R cars that could have kept some of the routes going, but not the whole thing.

  • @eurojamie
    @eurojamie 6 місяців тому

    Good history about the tram lines, but where's the bit about the never-built railway line (in the title)?

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  6 місяців тому

      Thanks for watching. I made this a while back - so can't remember the script exactly - but I was referencing how the Warringah railway line to the Northern Beaches was never built - so the trams used the alignment on the bridge and the smaller arch bridge to North Sydney Station instead. Sounds like I didn't make that clear enough. BTW I did make a later one on the former Wynyard Tram Station that explains it in more detail. Cheers M

  • @Elainerulesutube
    @Elainerulesutube Рік тому +1

    Sydney had the best tram system in the world.

  • @AlanDownunder
    @AlanDownunder 5 місяців тому

    The Pacific Highway used to be called Lane Cove Road, not Longueville Road.

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  5 місяців тому

      Thanks for the correction. I just looked up the street map from 1928 and yes I get that wrong. Appreciate it.

  • @waynefay8210
    @waynefay8210 3 місяці тому

    what was the official reason to get rid of trams ??

    • @backtracks.channel
      @backtracks.channel  3 місяці тому

      Good question. And like in most cities there wasn't once specific reason - and I can't see one officially written anywhere. But governments at the time said it was mix of high cost to rebuild rail infrastructure after no / low investment during the depression and then WWII, general declining patronage which lead to tramways losing money, trams were also blamed for increasing congestion - as car usage was increasing (petrol rationing ended in the early 1950s) and probably as importantly for many trams were seen as “an embarrassing and sentimental anachronism in the age of speed and streamlined proficiency” and cars as representatives of “modernity and progress”.

  • @zonabrown9241
    @zonabrown9241 8 місяців тому

    Yyy
    You're wrong spit rd didnt connect at Mosman Junction

  • @peteshobbyrailway9513
    @peteshobbyrailway9513 Рік тому +1

    A

  • @jonathancox2907
    @jonathancox2907 2 місяці тому +1

    What great tram lines these could have been if they were not closed.but the damm stupid pollies got rid of them.sure how to wipe out transport history.damm you,labour goverment at the time.great video anyway.

  • @robertcoleman4861
    @robertcoleman4861 Рік тому +2

    Thanks Marty a wonderful look back to the good old days cheers bob.🚊🚉🍺🤠