It's distressing how Ismay was scapegoat villain for the purpose of creating drama. It's nice to see him defended and put in the proper perspective. Cameron's work was so impressive on many levels, but the storyline was hokey and I remember being disappointed that Ismay's character wasn't updated in that movie. Glad you've done so here! 👍
B. Ismay bears no blame for the sinking. He was neither an engineer nor a ship builder. The absolutelly only thing which is unbelievable is that nobody else was around the collapsible in the moment he jumped on the boat. I don't recall if during the US hearing he said: "no woman" or " no one" was around. But as one of the last boats leaving the Titanic, I am absolutelly sure!!! the deck was packed with people!
@@mihaidumitrescu1325 He also didn’t just jump into the boat. He helped women and children into the lifeboats until there were none left on the part of the ship he was on and following this, Murdoch told Ismay that he could take the last seat available in Collapsible C, otherwise would lower it without anyone taking that last seat. It was actually a good thing Ismay survived too.
Well as a ship owner , if you dont provide enough saving boats just because you have some dream about some "unsinkable ship" , well yea , you are pretty much the villain.
@Lifeisgo0d77 you need to look a little more into the life boat situation. They actually had more than required at the time. Not enough... for sure.. but they were no different for any other line at the time, in fact they had more than required (legally)
@Lifeisgo0d More lifeboats wouldn’t have helped at all that night-they didn’t even have time to launch all the boats they did have before the Titanic sank.
I do feel sympathy for Bruce, stood on deck helping the crew load the boats while witnessing the tragedy unfold around him on his masterpiece, he obviously got worse mentally as the situation became more dire and the realisation that the loss of life was going to be huge, in the end he chose flight rather than fight and lived with that decision for the rest of his life
Would have been different I feel if he'd stayed on the ship all the way down ending up in the icy water and through a miracle from God survived long enough too be pulled out like a handful were.
It's not my place to judge him although it's hard not to voice my opinion. That was a different era, a different culture, and much different societal norms. Similar to the Victorian era, including around the Civil War, a man was expected to stand his ground and fight or forever be viewed a coward. Men were also expected to protect and care for women who were seen as the weaker sex with the women having societal expectations of their own to live up to. So I guess if I were a man in that predicament, I honestly don't know what I would do or how I would react.
I actually feel really bad for Ismay. If he were the villain that he’s often portrayed, he would have taken one of the first life boats, not the last. He saw his last chance to survive and took it. Does that alone make him a villain? He would have had one of the most valuable testimonies for the inquisitions, benefiting safety regulations from then on. And he needed to be alive to give it.
What if all the crew also run away in the last boat like he did? I think you would feel bad for them too! 4 children as small as 2 could have been saved if he had not jumped into the boat. He broke the protocol for himself & that's cowardice while many gentleman voluntarily gave away their seats to women & childrens & that's bravery.
@@3DDanceTV You was never there yourself and I almost bet you would of done the same, he saved who he could and when he saw no one take the last seat, he took it. Its not being a coward, its a will to live.
@@gatenrocks7119 This is your presumption & what you would hv done if you were there! What make you think the officers would have allowed me when they even refused men like J J ASTOR, Thomas William & many prominent personalities. This jerk along with William Smith managed to get away because he was White Star Line CEO. This coward is also responsible for forcing Edward Smith to run 23 knots & arrive early. So that he could make a name for himself, he was akso responsible for lifeboats of only 1200 passengers.
@@3DDanceTV There were no women and children anywhere to be seen when Ismay took the last seat in the last collapsible lifeboat. The scene from the 1979 "S.O.S. Titanic" movie is obviously bogus, as there would have been no woman present, like the stewardess Mary Sloan (played by Helen Mirren), to give Ismay one last accusing stare.
@@lysanderofsparta3708 for ur kind information more 500 women & children died onboard titanic. There only crime was they were from 3rd class! So don't give this lame excuse that there were no women around!
It’s a tough thing to deal with, survivor’s guilt. Survival, or survivor instinct is strong in all of us. No one should feel guilty for being alive. If Ismay went down with the ship he certainly wouldn’t have had to deal with the guilt, depression, and shame heaped on him by people not faced with a similar circumstance.
And that's the key thing...shame heaped on him by people not faced with a similar circumstance. So easy to judge from our couches 100 years later, but we were not there.
@@daniellecruz2917 He was helping people get in on the lifeboats and he got in when there were no more passengers near. There was one spot and he took it. That was a last chance for surviving. Most of the people would do the same, regardless of what anyone says.
@@phoenixxsoul that is a ghastly lie. Islay was a coward and many of the survivirs attested to that as well. So what he helped many others did too amd did not get into a lifeboat
Well it's easy to call someone a coward in the comfort of your home/if you've never been In a situation like it. But I can gurantee many hating on him would have done the same if their life were on the line. I don't defend his actions but I think bashing him for going in to the lifeboat is unfair.. Great video! Hope to see more! (Would love videos about Lightoller or Harold Lowe)
@@BeyondTheTitanic Great to hear! Really have been interested in the life of Lowe. He was a true hero but there aren't too many videos about him. cheers!
Wonderful video but arguably the best part was that bit about Howard Carter towards the end. It was so unexpected, I startled myself by cackling so abruptly. Well done. 😂
For me, it's not that he jumped aboard the second-to-last boat to leave the ship. It's not that he was who he was, but his actions and those who he employed to more or less hunt down the survivors of the victims and the survivors of the sinking that irk me. The ones who went into the hospital rooms of those who were still struggling with their mental wellbeing withe regards to the losses they incurred. I mean the insurance people forcing these people to sign agreements for such a small pittance to what they lost that night. Mostly the widows and those children who lost a father. I don't begrudge him the right to survive, I begrudge him and this methods in the aftermath.
He didn’t really jump aboard his lifeboat, he just decided to enter it when Murdoch told him that either he could take its last seat, otherwise would lower it without anyone taking that seat.
I thoroughly enjoyed this video and as a lifelong Titanic enthusiast (I'm 62 years old) l always saw Bruce Ismay as the villain but because he did help passengers into the lifeboats, and he didn't exactly push people aside to get into the lifeboat so maybe he was unjustly treated as a coward. And he did represent the Whie Star Line in the coming enquiries in the UK and the US, him being the most senior person as well. Good work there sir.
Many here call him a coward, but how many here would do the same in his position? I don't know what I'll do, I know what I would want to do, but just like in most situation in my life, I don't jump queues, I don't push my way in and I always miss out.
@@starrsmith3810hello again keep seeing you on all these titanic videos haha. And I am totally with you on this one. He really is a person misunderstood because of his wealth. And the way tabloids and Hollywood know how to work the working class. But he actually did a lot to ensure people survival. He helped fill the boats. And many officers have stated he didn't take anyone's spot. If he had stayed on the titanic all it would mean is one more life taken. No one was there at the time for Ismay to swap places with. What annoys me people told James Cameron about him and all his efforts. But Cameron went they want to see him the villian so we better do it. Thought it was cowardly for him to do that imo.
@@cnote2458 yeah I’m a gigantic Titanic Nerd lol. I still find people with a false idea of Ismay and I swear nothing I say ever makes them listen. Unfortunately quite a few people expect, want, and see Ismay as a villain so we end up with portrayals like that. Though James Cameron was a BIT fair with it. He did infinitely worst with Murdoch.
@@starrsmith3810I am a big titqnic nerd to lol. I go to the titanic museum a lot as live a few miles away from Southampton. I can't believe Cameron portrayal of Murdoch. The suicidal rumour is just that without evidence. And every witness has gives a diffrent account and were the shots were located. Not disproving it happened but no one knows who or where it happened if it did. He should never have had it as a name character if he put it in imo. And having him take bribes from passages was embarrassing. Especially when you look at how he managed his lifeboats. He had launched all his quicker and most filled up. And Cameron made him pretty villianous which is pretty embarrassing.
@@cnote2458 it was so disrespectful and it’s the one thing about the movie I legitimately hate and I love the movie. Murdoch deserved a better portrayal. His family was PISSED. I actually read a FanFiction story where Murdoch’s death was written differently.
I feel bad for him. It's human to want to live. Yes, the officers, captain, and Andrews were brave heros. Ismay did all he could to help people get on the boats. There was a seat - he took it. I hope he was able to forgive himself and move on.
Cameron also miss portrayed Murdoch as well, in the end camerons movie is just a piece of entertainment and shouldnt be taken as factual its the reason why most movies that are based on true events have disclaimers stating its BASED on a true story. Lots of movies in that sort of genre do that, it makes sense though if you want people to watch it you have go make it entertaining. I kind of wish we knew more about Thomas Andrews thoughts during the sinking and his last moments, he was the designer and if the movie Titanic is to be believed he was filled with guilt and then went down with the ship. Could you imagine you claimed to have made an unsinkable ship you think you have put everything in place to make sure it lives up to that name only for you to realize to late what the flaw actually was.
I agree with most of what you said, I just wanted to point out that Andrews never claimed Titanic was unsinkable, and that Titanic was a very safe and well-built ship. No liner of that era could have survived the colossal amount of damage she suffered from that iceberg collision. Look at the great career her older sister Olympic had.
although from what I read it is said to believe that Andrews himself never really called the ship on unsinkable it was the media that called it Unsinkable he just went with it. he figured that if four water type compartments were flooded the ship could still stay afloat but as we know what happened five water type compartments were being flooded after the iceberg struck the ship. Andrews knew the ship was doomed.
Alexander Carlisle was the true designer of the titanic. He quit the company over the lack of life boats. Thomas Andrews would take over his role towards the end
Cameron did not miss portray Ismay, he lied to the inquiry as he did tell Chief Bell in Queenstown what speed to have each day. He admitted he never told the Captain about it. Ismay also was a a creep who stalked and later wrote a dozen love letters to Marian Thayer. People stop kissing his arse.
I mean, his behavior during the sinking compared to nowadays and how cowardly some captains were in the same situations.... I really don't blame him. His actions didn't cause any loss of life.
His actions ALONE caused the loss of many lives… he vetoed the proposal for the max number of lifeboats needed for only the minimum by maritime law.. he urged the Captain to speed up (right towards an Ice field) to break a record arriving at New York quicker.. oh and he got on a lifeboat when plenty of other people should have been given his place on the boat with the fact many of his actions caused the disaster! He should have gave the place to some other poor soul and stayed aboard the ship like Captain Smith and Thomas Andrews did.
@@markmcmahon4422 there was Elizabeth Lines testimony who overheard the conversation. She said he was discussing about Titanic's performance. They were comparing Titanic and Olympic. He wanted to see if Titanic could beat Olympic's crossing time she made on her maiden voyage. It was a speed test that was planned to be conducted later Monday or Tuesday if conditions were right. If creating speed records was the motive, it's contradictory to Ismay's very idea of the Olympic class. He knew they can't beat Cunard for speed, so he focused on luxury and operate economically. According to Alexander Carlisle's testimony, Olympic class's original designer, he thought of 48 lifeboats but it wasn't decided when he left Harland and Wolff. It was Ismay who approved Carlisle's idea of installing Welin davits that could take extra row of boats. There were talks of board of Trade planning to update laws so Welin davits were designed to add more in case law changes in the future. With much more discussions with others, it was finally decided to comply with board of Trade regulations. There are no concrete evidences of lowering lifeboats for aesthetic reasons.
Just want to say thank you for this video, you have definitely made me think more about the situation Ismay was in that night on the Titanic and life after and honestly I think I would have done the same thing in taking that empty seat on the lifeboat given my situation that night. Thank you again for this great video.
I would have done the exact same thing as he did. Especially since he waited to get in one of the very last lifeboats that left the ship. It’s a shame that he was labeled a coward. Obviously the people that did so have never been in the position that he was in.
And he actually didn’t jump into his lifeboat the way movies have shown. He just helped women and children into lifeboats until there were none left on the part of the ship he was on and following this, William McMaster Murdock told Ismay that he could board the last seat available in his lifeboat, otherwise he would lower it with that seat being left empty.
Lightoller took it too the extreme, woman and children only at the expense of unfilled lifeboats. The whole thing from start to finish was criminal neglect.
Lightoller did misunderstand the rule completely. But to be fair to him he wasn't prepared for it under the most unbearable pressure and he did do his best. He did save lives and when it was every man for himself he did his best to help men onto Collapsible boat B. He also was the last person to be brought on on to the RMS Carpathia. Today how he handled the situation wouldn't fly. But this was a time were rules were completely diffrent. Lightoller did the best he could but he did many mistakes during the evacuation but I don't think that should consider him criminal worthy for mistakes under the most unbearable situation imaginable.
@@cnote2458 i want to ask, many people think part of the reasoning that the lifeboats arent filled completely was because of panic, and the plan to load people as they go down. that they didnt want people to crowd or try to rush on the boat leading to more injuries or possibly deaths. is this possibly true? i'd love to learn about this!
@@burnt.flowers when the first couple were launched no one wanted to get into them. As they thought the ship couldn't possibly sink and that this was just standard practice of titanic going by the rule book. The Astons the riches people on the ship went of and played in the gym for half hour when the first lifeboats were launched and many others just thought nothing of what was going on. But when the reality of the situation was obvious people were trying there best to get into one. Some saliors were at first hesitate to put so many in the boat as they didn't know about the test and how many were to fit in during the testing. Murdock was amazing and probably saved the most lifes that night. As he filled it up the best he could with woman and children and if none was in the area he would fill it up with men. While lightoller took it woman and children only. But in his defence every salior on board would of know about the HMS Birkenhead and how the captain was considered a massive hero. Which lightoller practically copied to a tee.
The movie sure villanized Ismay. But his actions were both heroic and arrogant. His only mistake was coercing Captain Smith into speeding up the ship. All of his actions after that were redeeming.
I would disagree that his actions were heroic rather opportunistic is more apt. The Captain was merely a figurehead on that fateful journey it was Bruce Ismay who was pulling the strings behind the scenes.
@@kofmmbs I don't know if that's true. The fact that the ship lasted three hours after striking the iceberg (as opposed to an hour or a half hour) is remarkable and it's because of all the ship's safety designs. It just couldn't survive a collision of that nature, and few ships could. The problem, if you ask me, was the simple fact that they decided to ignore ice warnings and go steaming into an ice field in the middle of the night.
@@shannynmartin3157 in the latest documentaries it is say that the ship has been on fire for weeks and ismay knew of this, you can see a black spot on the right side of the ship. And one of the reasons why the ship was moving so fast is because they didn’t had any fuel. And as for the iceberg warnings Ismay took most of the warnings and didn’t revealed to the captain and crew
@@kofmmbs I googled the coal fire theory and it is regarded by most credible historians as a conspiracy theory. the spot on the side of the ship is actually from when they were painting. Titanic was being painted literally right up until the day it sailed. The fire was way lower on the ship and you would not have been able to actually see damage from it-- certainly not above the water line like that. What's more-- coal fires on board were EXTREMELY common at the time but if they were contained within their enclosed bunkers (I think that's what they were called) then they didn't pose any actual danger. The coal fire on Titanic had no impact on the sinking-- in fact it actually helped because the crewmen putting out the fire had moved a bunch of coal to the other side of the ship for it and that actually helped balance the ship which kept it afloat longer after the collision.
I see nothing wrong with him getting in a lifeboat at the last minute. More should have. As long as they didn't toss out a child to do it. The worst part is not having enough to begin with.
Thats what separates a MAN from a COWARD. At least you're an honest coward. J. Jacob Aster and Thomas Andrews also had a families to go home to. But they went down with the ship. I seriously doubt in those last final moments there was NO ONE to take the final seat. Yeah, right.
Hi I’m a titanic fan and have stayed at the white star offices in Liverpool 30 saint james which is now a hotel….worth a visit but refuse a room in the basement….try a room higher….engineers from titanic help build it and you can find rivets everywhere in the hotel…Belfast as well…birth place and museum….the Americans also do museums but are a bit gimmicky whereas the Belfast is more serious and not a fairground…hope to go to Putney next year and visit Bruce…great video
Richard Norris Williams was a neighbor of ours. I was fortunate enough to read his memoirs. His account of the sinking, and the death of his father was riveting.
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His actions that night where Not of a coward he knew would die and he was one of the last men to get in and he was in fact ushered in by murdcho I believe as he was on the dock . It’s so tragic
After watching this video and another one last night about Ismay, I feel really sorry for him, he wasn’t an evil man but he was a flawed one and I have to give him credit for helping passengers get on the boats. Imagining being in his position, I don’t know what I would have done 😢, may he rest in peace
I think the "shame" centered around the fact that there were {still} women and children on board the ship - whether or not Ismay himself was even consciously aware of that individually, is another matter altogether. And I DO possess doubts as to whether or not Ismay and Captain Smith even had ANY type of conversation...how can you NOT have doubts of something you've only been told of secondhand??? That's EXACTLY why I have doubts!
Keep in mind, Ismay had run afoul to a real human iceberg known as newspaper tycoon William Randolph Hearst (aka the real Citizen Kane). Hearst was looking for an excuse to destroy Ismay's reputation through his various newspapers and once he got wind of Ismay being a survivor, Ismay never stood a chance in the public eye.
@@evanbao93 yes yes I forgot about that. 😔😞 There is that culture in the print media isn't there - having it in for one particular "mark" I mean... Naturally, no apology can ever be expected to be forthcoming (or "lessons will be learned" etc. etc.).
After his survival did he indeed contribute to ship’s design to avoid future catastrophe? Did he ever disclose if it was indeed an iceberg that the ship hit?
There would have been no point in having the lifeboat row off with an empty seat when a life could be saved in that seat; that it was Ismay's life doesn't change the analysis. If he bears any blame it might be for influencing the decision to sail full speed into the ice field, but I can't see blaming him for taking an available lifeboat seat when his decision to do so apparently did not deny the seat to someone else.
Watch the video of J Bruce Ismay's distant cousin, Derrik Ismay. He says its really unfair that people believe that a woman overheard a conversation between Captian Smith and Bruce Ismay saying he wanted to test the ship's speed. It was never proven to be true, and theres evidence that the ship was not going faster than it should have been.
One too-long comment I will add: about all the second-guessing and blaming people for their actions or inactions. No one on the Titanic had seen the movies, or had access to you tube and internet theories. They had to do the best they could in the situation they were confronting, not knowing what else is going on all over the ship. Lightoller thought the ship's lights he saw in the distance indicated that rescue was near, loading boats to maximum capacity (even if passengers would get into them, especially at first) could result in boats capsizing even before they reached the water 70 feet below. He didn't know how quickly his ship would sink, the other ship would not come. He sent a bosun and some crew to open a lower gangway, thinking more passengers could then get in the partly-filled boats. He never heard of the bosun and other crew again. And Murdoch was very active in loading boats, but only the last boats on starboard were close to being fully loaded. The first boat on starboard, Boat 7 having 28 of 65 and boat 5 37 of 65. That's happening about 75 minutes after the iceburg was hit. Launching a boat took up to 15 minutes to get it down from the boat deck to water: too slow for action to portray it in the movies. On topic, Ismay does according to one witness, mention to Captain Smith how well the ship is doing, maybe more boilers could be put in service tomorrow. He's not saying let's race to get into New York and break a speed record.
it takes big men to achieve what he achieved.... i feel for him and what happened, i believe he was not a bad guy as portrayed, had mammoth ambitions... things just didn't pan out for him. he lived a life so bad after, think he wish he was dead. sad actually... for all, titanic casualries and himself...
For those who feel sympathy for Ismay, don't. The White Star Line Board has been pressuring Ismay for years to resign as General Manager, because he only became the GM is because his father Thomas Henry Ismay was the founder of the company and when he died in 1899 Bruce inherited ownership and the board did not see him as a suited fit to run the company and Titanic sinking was the final nail on the coffin when he resigned a year later.
@@Sarah0583 Those conversations were kept hidden from the public because it is in case he can not convinced the board to accept him as GM until after Titanic sank.
Call it cowardice or what you want. But when it comes to dying a horrible and painful death. 99.99 percent of humans would have got in that boat. It's human instinct to survive. It's easier to live with shame than drowning in a frigid ocean. The whole fiasco is a tragedy. But it all falls on the shoulders of the captain. He knew about the ice warnings but never slowed the ship. He had full responsibility for the passengers and crew. Even if ismay pressured him to hurry along.
I tend to agree...regardless of pressure, it was ultimately the Captain's call. He chose wrong. But in the end, I think placing blame in the end is the wrong way to look at any of it. It's just a horrible tragedy.
It’s not I’m afraid. It’s the premium line model from Graupner at 1:150 scale. The Trumpeter model looks great but sadly I’m not very good at model building. The model featured in my content was built by a skilled person for me. Thanks for subscribing.
Hi, I’m glad you like the channel. Episode one is not currently available as it wasn’t very good. It’s just a short video explaining what the channel is all about and doesn’t really bring much to the channel. Some new content will be coming to the channel very soon.
Excellent video. We are coming from the USA in a couple of months and a visit to Mr. Ismays gravesite is on our list. I see some other graves in the Ismay plot. Who else is buried there?
Hi. Thanks for the comment. I’m glad you like the episode. As far as I am aware Ismay is buried along side his wife. His two daughters are buried in separate locations. I hope you have a great time when you come to the UK. There are many other Titanic related sites in and around London that are worth a visit, happy to help further if you’re interested. 😁👍🏻
@@BeyondTheTitanic Definitely interested in Titanic sites. Getting to Putney Vale, our hotel is close to Tottenham Rd Station. We take the Tube to Putney Bridge Station, then the 85 Bus toward Kingston? That will pass by the Cemetery, right?
I don’t think a single one of us, in his position, would have said “fuck it, I want to die tonight” and stayed aboard that sinking ship. I blame the hubris that drove the White Star Line and the thinking of the time but in the end the one person who is truly to blame went down with the ship.
Ummm... many people did say fuck it... even the captain. There were numerous people who refused to be rescued for various reason but you saying "I want to die tonight" is absolutely insane.
Thomas Andrews, William Murdoch and Captain Smith all laid their lives down and died aboard Titanic because they felt responsible. Whether or not, the sinking was Ismay’s responsibility, the sinking was White Star Line’s responsibility, and Ismay ran that company.
If it was just some random male passenger who survived by jumping onto the lifeboat as it was lowering, I don't think the perception would be that bad. Yes, it's women and children first but there was plenty of room on the boat and nobody else on the deck to save. Even the 1997 movie which largely makes him a villain doesn't suggest that he cut in line and someone else died instead of him. My personal feeling is his bigger issue is the perception (which may not be fair or accurate) that he was the one who prioritized an early arrival above anything else and that he was the one responsible for insufficient lifeboats. If that's how people see him, I can understand someone feeling that, for lack of a better phrase, he had no right to survive if anyone else didn't, let alone 1,500 people. Again, those notions may not be fair, nor am I even saying it's how I feel. But it does make the branding of him as a coward easier to understand.
Hi Joseph thank you for your reply , just my opinion, however I look at like this , ismay got into a lifeboat leaving 1500 men , woman & CHILDREN still on the sinking ship , my question to you & everyone else who thinks ismay is blameless is this WAS ISMAYS LIFE WORTH MORE THAN ONE OF THOSE CHILDREN ? what would you have done ? What would I have done , hopefully tried to save some more lives Let's not forget it was almost certainly ismay who cut the number of lifeboats in the first place
Massive failings? Yes. Every child in 1st class got on a lifeboat. Third class? Most left to drown with their mothers. Even now only the rich passengers are discussed.
I never quite understood the hate that they laid upon this man. He got into an open spot on the last lifeboat launched from the starboard side. He got into a lifeboat that had other men on it. What did he do that was so wrong? The media of the day was looking for a scandal because it sells papers and they ginned this one up. That's my take on it. More scandalous to me was how White Star stopped paying crew at 2:30 when the ship went down. How they tried to get the survivors to pay for the uniforms of the deceased. You want to talk about plain evil, that's it.
I'm sorry to hear about Ismay's experience but as far as I am aware apart from writing to one of the widows he didn't do much to redeem himself after the disaster
I don;t feel sorry for him! Although I enjoyed this very much, you forgot some facts about Bruce. # 1 it was Bruce that the had the number of lifeboats reduced, The original plans of the Titanic shows adequate lifeboats for passengers but Bruce felt that it made the promenade deck look too crowded so he had the number reduced! # 2 It was Bruce who had the tops of the watertight compartments lowered one deck because he wanted more open spaces on the decks. Not only getting into a lifeboat to trouble his mind, he had those other things to remember!
@@dalekexterminae He very well knew there were women and children in the ship, just because they weren't around doesn't excuse his selfish behaviour. If they weren't there, that was because they were told the ship was safe and not to panic or they simply didn't know there was another a boat to be launched. The whole video is designed to whitewash him which is disgusting.
As I understand it, he got into a lifeboat just as it was being lowered, so he didn't take anyone's seat. It's easy to say he should've stayed on board anyway, due to his role as director, but once you picture yourself at the brink of eternal nothingness, what he did is easy to understand. He should've felt guilty about the lifeboat shortage and the dangerous speed, but not about surviving.
That is true. Harold Bride and Jack Phillips were certainly one of the many people that night who contributed greatly to the number of those who were saved.
And if the Carpathia’s Marconi Man hadn’t stayed up past his usual bedtime that night, hadn’t wore his headphones while only in the process of getting undressed for bed, and hadn’t awakened Captain Rostron, Titanic would’ve disappeared with much less information.
That the problem every body feel sorry for ismay i dont because they did not have a enough life boat for everyone on the ship an the boats are for women an childrens a lot of men when down with the ship he is the president of the company so he should when down with the ship he live the rest of his life in shame an he dervers it
No, he shouldn’t have gone down with the ship. If he hadn’t taken the seat available in the Collapsible C lifeboat, nobody would’ve. It was actually a good thing he survived the disaster too.
He most certainly DID take that seat from many other people! 1500+ people would closer to the truth. You say that he was one of a handful of people that knew the true danger that they faced yet they held people back in steerage. He watched those boats leave with TONS of empty seats. One left with roughly 12 to 14 people in it.
I believe you are referring to lifeboat 1 which had a capacity of 40 but had only 12 seats filled. Said lifeboat was loaded and launched by first officer Murdoch. So I can’t see how Ismay is accountable for that. Empty seats were a failing on the part of the crew, under the command of a Captain who had lost all control of the situation. Ismay was a passenger on board and was in no way responsible for filling or launching lifeboats any more than any other passenger was. The responsibility of ensuring lifeboats were loaded and launched correctly ultimately rested upon those in command.
There is no evidence that officers held people back in steerage, looks like you're basing your knowledge off of the film... Just goes to show the effect that modern day media has on people's understanding of historical events and not actual facts. The point, which is concisely presented in this video, is that those seats were not being filled. Granted, White Star Line were responsibile for the lack of lifeboats however, if he had not taken that seat, he would have been another soul lost. On the flip side, had he had died, at least he would have been viewed more positively in the history books, just like Captain Smith who also played a negative role in contributing to the sinking. Yet we view Captain Smith as the heoric figure who went down with his ship. Seems like people would have viewed Ismay's death as a form of justice due to his involvement in the company. Sad to see that, although so many people lost their lives, people would still have valued his death more than his life. Living a life riddled with guilt would, in my opinion, be worse than death.
@@carolineclay839 yeah, i heard that he boarded a lifeboat when no one else was left to take his spot. and that he also helped load passengers in, yes he did panic at first but helped afterwards.
None considering the fact that Murdoch would’ve lowered Collapsible C without anyone taking its last seat if Ismay rejected it and Ismay was not a coward.
@@josephinakeam6197 Ismay is in fact *DID* not do a coward move. That's the difference. He only take the seat because nobody else was there to take the seat. And before that he even helped many of the passangers to board into the lifeboat.
@@th3ra83There was no one to get into the lifeboat, that's why 1500 people died in the disaster.OMG...How people can portray and consider him a saint????
@@th3ra83 overconfidence??? Check the real history and accept the real facts. Even a little child in this world knows that third-class passengers were not allowed to commute with first-class people in lifeboats. The crew mostly gave importance to the lives of high-status people. It is not a good mentality to believe that all 1500 innocent people chose their death themselves. He is a 'COWARD'.
Here's the thing. You can't shoot somebody, then get credit for driving the victim to the hospital. Ismay showed severe negligence, and so did the Captain. I read through his deposition, and he seemed to be very removed from the technical and working aspects of the ship. He couldn't even describe the trials (tests) the Titanic had gone through before its maiden voyage, but just knew they had been passed. He also didn't ask his general managers for any kind of reports, only what they wanted to tell him. If a Managing Director behaved like this today following the same disaster, claiming ignorance and that it was somebody else's job to know, they would be destroyed. He also was aware the Titanic didn't have enough lifeboats, when orinally there was. Given his preoccupation with the Titanic's speed during the journey, I'm assuming it was so the Titanic was carrying less weight so it could move faster. Elizabeth Lines was the first class passenger who allegedly overheard Ismay and the Captain talking about the Titanic's speed and beating the Olympic (Ismay's previous ship which held the record for biggest ocean liner in the world). This is a first class woman who wouldn't have any reason to know the motivations of a ship's captain and its owner. They were also trying to compete with another luxury liner company at the time, so even more reason to beat Titanic's ETA - the biggest luxury liner in the world beats her own speed. Ismay behaved more like a figurehead for his company, than a responsible leader. Obviously this was a very different time, but by today's standards, he would absolutely be responsible. The Captain also should have known better. Even if Ismay did want to go faster, they both knew there had been ice spotted in the area and ignored the warnings. An experienced captain should have pushed back. It's a shame Ismay's family had to pay for his negligence. That's absolutely not deserved. But I don't think the blame he received was unwarranted.
Women and children first was always the rule and nearly 200 women and children died in the disaster. Not sure I would want to admit to being the same coward as Ismay was mate but each to their own.
you seem to forget that Bruce Ismay had lowered the number of lifeboats from 48 which was suggested to 16. Bruce Ismay once said "people dont pay to look at lifeboats".
The regulations surrounding lifeboat capacity were set by the board of trade, not WS. Titanic was not the only ship afloat at the time which did not carry enough lifeboats. In fact Titanic only needed 16 to meet the legal requirements. WS actually went above and beyond said requirements with 20 boats. As for the quote you used. I believe that was taken from a dramatisation of the events, from an actor.
@@BeyondTheTitanicWhite Star knew the rules were outdated by the sheer increase in size of the Olympic class ships. Just because the followed the rules doesn’t make them right.
When they were making ships that big, they should have had enough number of lifeboats. I am also pretty sure that as a big company they had a lot of power with which to push the standards through the board.
@@nerimanuzuner8287 at that time titanic did have enough life boats under the law. however the standard was based on tonnage, and at titanics time titanic is 5 times larger than the ships that the law would be good for. today the law is the lifeboats must accommodate125% of the people on board.
So, if they had 48 boats, would that make a difference? The ship sank very slow, they had more than 2 and a half hours, they had only 20 boats, and for that time they barely could lower these 20 boats. Imagine if they could lower the rest if they had them. When the Lusitania was torpedoed, she had 48 boats. But since she sank in 18 minutes, only 6 of these boats we lowered. And again a lot of people died, nearly 1200. So the number of the boats it's not decisive whether a ship is safe or not. And one more thing. Many people think that many ships (if not all) sink in the conditions similar in which the Titanic sank: calm waters, where a place in the lifeboats is the difference between life and death. But you know, most of the ships sink in very different conditions: in storms (when there are big waves) and near the coastal rocks. So if your ship is sinking in a stormy weather near the rocks, these wooden boats couldn't guarantee you anything. In fact, few years earlier before the Titanic, another White Star Line's ship sank very slowly near the coast in stormy weather. So the passengers had a choice: remain on the ship and wait for help, or try to evacuate with the boats. Since it was stormy, almost all of those who choose the boats, drowned. Those who remained on the ship and waited for another ship to save them, survived. So, from the point of view of the owners, the ship itself is the best possible lifeboat. They invested a lot to make the ships as safe as possible. The Olympic and the Titanic were the safest ships in the world at that time. Unfortunately it turned out that all her safety features were not enough, the ship was in the wrong time at the wrong place. Any other ship would sink, many even faster. So if this happened to the safest ship in the world, it was clear that some improvements should be made. No more speeding in the dark when you know there is ice ahead. No more sleeping wireless operators while somebody asks for help. And many other things.
sorry dont agree with this reporters take on bruce ismay . has managing director of the white star line why were lifeboats leaving partially filled ? by all the accounts he played a part in helping the crew to load them. So again why were some of them not filled to capacity .when he entered lifeboat c he stated that there were no passengers in the vacinity ? really ? 1500 people went into the water when titank sank yet there were no passengers near one of the last lifeboats to be launched at 2am ? .also whatever your opinion is on mr ismay hero or villian what did expect would happen ? in 1912 just like today when disaster occurs the press look for scapegoats . ( remember the concordia ) .so being the most senoir member of the company to survive when 1500 people perished , he was going to have to answer for his actions . there were 109 children on the titanic , 60 pershished . Was mr ismays life worth more than theirs ?
It's distressing how Ismay was scapegoat villain for the purpose of creating drama. It's nice to see him defended and put in the proper perspective. Cameron's work was so impressive on many levels, but the storyline was hokey and I remember being disappointed that Ismay's character wasn't updated in that movie. Glad you've done so here! 👍
B. Ismay bears no blame for the sinking.
He was neither an engineer nor a ship builder.
The absolutelly only thing which is unbelievable is that nobody else was around the collapsible in the moment he jumped on the boat.
I don't recall if during the US hearing he said: "no woman" or " no one" was around.
But as one of the last boats leaving the Titanic, I am absolutelly sure!!! the deck was packed with people!
@@mihaidumitrescu1325 He also didn’t just jump into the boat. He helped women and children into the lifeboats until there were none left on the part of the ship he was on and following this, Murdoch told Ismay that he could take the last seat available in Collapsible C, otherwise would lower it without anyone taking that last seat. It was actually a good thing Ismay survived too.
I completely agree with you on Ismay, it is often forgotten about how many people he actually helped before getting on the lifeboat.
That was the least he could do.
Well as a ship owner , if you dont provide enough saving boats just because you have some dream about some "unsinkable ship" , well yea , you are pretty much the villain.
And the fact that the seat in the lifeboat he took would’ve been left empty if he hadn’t taken it.
@Lifeisgo0d77 you need to look a little more into the life boat situation. They actually had more than required at the time. Not enough... for sure.. but they were no different for any other line at the time, in fact they had more than required (legally)
@Lifeisgo0d More lifeboats wouldn’t have helped at all that night-they didn’t even have time to launch all the boats they did have before the Titanic sank.
This is so well-done and a very much-needed correction to the historical record about an unfairly maligned man. Bravo!
Great video, RIP to the all victims of Titanic tragedy.
I do feel sympathy for Bruce, stood on deck helping the crew load the boats while witnessing the tragedy unfold around him on his masterpiece, he obviously got worse mentally as the situation became more dire and the realisation that the loss of life was going to be huge, in the end he chose flight rather than fight and lived with that decision for the rest of his life
there was no fight. He was one of the last people to get on a lifeboat. For him to die would have been pointless
Would have been different I feel if he'd stayed on the ship all the way down ending up in the icy water and through a miracle from God survived long enough too be pulled out like a handful were.
He was a very cowardly man.
@@FannyShmellar ok… mr/mrs 1912 😂
It's not my place to judge him although it's hard not to voice my opinion. That was a different era, a different culture, and much different societal norms. Similar to the Victorian era, including around the Civil War, a man was expected to stand his ground and fight or forever be viewed a coward. Men were also expected to protect and care for women who were seen as the weaker sex with the women having societal expectations of their own to live up to. So I guess if I were a man in that predicament, I honestly don't know what I would do or how I would react.
I actually feel really bad for Ismay. If he were the villain that he’s often portrayed, he would have taken one of the first life boats, not the last. He saw his last chance to survive and took it. Does that alone make him a villain? He would have had one of the most valuable testimonies for the inquisitions, benefiting safety regulations from then on. And he needed to be alive to give it.
What if all the crew also run away in the last boat like he did? I think you would feel bad for them too! 4 children as small as 2 could have been saved if he had not jumped into the boat. He broke the protocol for himself & that's cowardice while many gentleman voluntarily gave away their seats to women & childrens & that's bravery.
@@3DDanceTV You was never there yourself and I almost bet you would of done the same, he saved who he could and when he saw no one take the last seat, he took it. Its not being a coward, its a will to live.
@@gatenrocks7119 This is your presumption & what you would hv done if you were there! What make you think the officers would have allowed me when they even refused men like J J ASTOR, Thomas William & many prominent personalities. This jerk along with William Smith managed to get away because he was White Star Line CEO. This coward is also responsible for forcing Edward Smith to run 23 knots & arrive early. So that he could make a name for himself, he was akso responsible for lifeboats of only 1200 passengers.
@@3DDanceTV There were no women and children anywhere to be seen when Ismay took the last seat in the last collapsible lifeboat. The scene from the 1979 "S.O.S. Titanic" movie is obviously bogus, as there would have been no woman present, like the stewardess Mary Sloan (played by Helen Mirren), to give Ismay one last accusing stare.
@@lysanderofsparta3708 for ur kind information more 500 women & children died onboard titanic. There only crime was they were from 3rd class! So don't give this lame excuse that there were no women around!
It’s a tough thing to deal with, survivor’s guilt. Survival, or survivor instinct is strong in all of us. No one should feel guilty for being alive.
If Ismay went down with the ship he certainly wouldn’t have had to deal with the guilt, depression, and shame heaped on him by people not faced with a similar circumstance.
And that's the key thing...shame heaped on him by people not faced with a similar circumstance. So easy to judge from our couches 100 years later, but we were not there.
@@josephinakeam6197 Exactly
He should not have been on that lifeboat while there were women and children who parishes. Cowardly man
@@daniellecruz2917 He was helping people get in on the lifeboats and he got in when there were no more passengers near. There was one spot and he took it. That was a last chance for surviving. Most of the people would do the same, regardless of what anyone says.
@@phoenixxsoul that is a ghastly lie. Islay was a coward and many of the survivirs attested to that as well. So what he helped many others did too amd did not get into a lifeboat
Well done. Made me reevaluate my view of him. I've subscribed in the hope these videos keep coming! Really enjoyed it!
Thanks so much for your comment. More content will be coming soon .
Well it's easy to call someone a coward in the comfort of your home/if you've never been In a situation like it. But I can gurantee many hating on him would have done the same if their life were on the line. I don't defend his actions but I think bashing him for going in to the lifeboat is unfair.. Great video! Hope to see more! (Would love videos about Lightoller or Harold Lowe)
Thanks for the comment. Lightoller and Lowe are both planned to feature at some point.
@@BeyondTheTitanic Great to hear! Really have been interested in the life of Lowe. He was a true hero but there aren't too many videos about him. cheers!
Wonderful video but arguably the best part was that bit about Howard Carter towards the end. It was so unexpected, I startled myself by cackling so abruptly. Well done. 😂
For me, it's not that he jumped aboard the second-to-last boat to leave the ship. It's not that he was who he was, but his actions and those who he employed to more or less hunt down the survivors of the victims and the survivors of the sinking that irk me. The ones who went into the hospital rooms of those who were still struggling with their mental wellbeing withe regards to the losses they incurred. I mean the insurance people forcing these people to sign agreements for such a small pittance to what they lost that night. Mostly the widows and those children who lost a father. I don't begrudge him the right to survive, I begrudge him and this methods in the aftermath.
He didn’t really jump aboard his lifeboat, he just decided to enter it when Murdoch told him that either he could take its last seat, otherwise would lower it without anyone taking that seat.
I thoroughly enjoyed this video and as a lifelong Titanic enthusiast (I'm 62 years old) l always saw Bruce Ismay as the villain but because he did help passengers into the lifeboats, and he didn't exactly push people aside to get into the lifeboat so maybe he was unjustly treated as a coward. And he did represent the Whie Star Line in the coming enquiries in the UK and the US, him being the most senior person as well. Good work there sir.
Thank you. I’m glad you enjoyed the episode.
Many here call him a coward, but how many here would do the same in his position? I don't know what I'll do, I know what I would want to do, but just like in most situation in my life, I don't jump queues, I don't push my way in and I always miss out.
I called him a coward…..and then ended up finding out how wrong I was when I found out the actual truth.
@@starrsmith3810hello again keep seeing you on all these titanic videos haha. And I am totally with you on this one. He really is a person misunderstood because of his wealth. And the way tabloids and Hollywood know how to work the working class. But he actually did a lot to ensure people survival. He helped fill the boats. And many officers have stated he didn't take anyone's spot. If he had stayed on the titanic all it would mean is one more life taken. No one was there at the time for Ismay to swap places with. What annoys me people told James Cameron about him and all his efforts. But Cameron went they want to see him the villian so we better do it. Thought it was cowardly for him to do that imo.
@@cnote2458 yeah I’m a gigantic Titanic Nerd lol.
I still find people with a false idea of Ismay and I swear nothing I say ever makes them listen. Unfortunately quite a few people expect, want, and see Ismay as a villain so we end up with portrayals like that.
Though James Cameron was a BIT fair with it. He did infinitely worst with Murdoch.
@@starrsmith3810I am a big titqnic nerd to lol. I go to the titanic museum a lot as live a few miles away from Southampton. I can't believe Cameron portrayal of Murdoch. The suicidal rumour is just that without evidence. And every witness has gives a diffrent account and were the shots were located. Not disproving it happened but no one knows who or where it happened if it did. He should never have had it as a name character if he put it in imo. And having him take bribes from passages was embarrassing. Especially when you look at how he managed his lifeboats. He had launched all his quicker and most filled up. And Cameron made him pretty villianous which is pretty embarrassing.
@@cnote2458 it was so disrespectful and it’s the one thing about the movie I legitimately hate and I love the movie. Murdoch deserved a better portrayal. His family was PISSED.
I actually read a FanFiction story where Murdoch’s death was written differently.
I feel bad for him. It's human to want to live. Yes, the officers, captain, and Andrews were brave heros. Ismay did all he could to help people get on the boats. There was a seat - he took it. I hope he was able to forgive himself and move on.
What about all the other men that went on? If you weren't the captain of a lifeboat you were a coward
@@alexxela8956I disagree. If there's no-one else to put in the lifeboat, it would be stupid to not use an available space.
I just found your channel! I LOVE the titanic. I cannot wait to watch all your videos. Thank you for doing this
Aww thanks so much. Really pleased you like the episode.
Cameron also miss portrayed Murdoch as well, in the end camerons movie is just a piece of entertainment and shouldnt be taken as factual its the reason why most movies that are based on true events have disclaimers stating its BASED on a true story. Lots of movies in that sort of genre do that, it makes sense though if you want people to watch it you have go make it entertaining.
I kind of wish we knew more about Thomas Andrews thoughts during the sinking and his last moments, he was the designer and if the movie Titanic is to be believed he was filled with guilt and then went down with the ship. Could you imagine you claimed to have made an unsinkable ship you think you have put everything in place to make sure it lives up to that name only for you to realize to late what the flaw actually was.
I agree with most of what you said, I just wanted to point out that Andrews never claimed Titanic was unsinkable, and that Titanic was a very safe and well-built ship. No liner of that era could have survived the colossal amount of damage she suffered from that iceberg collision. Look at the great career her older sister Olympic had.
although from what I read it is said to believe that Andrews himself never really called the ship on unsinkable it was the media that called it Unsinkable he just went with it. he figured that if four water type compartments were flooded the ship could still stay afloat but as we know what happened five water type compartments were being flooded after the iceberg struck the ship. Andrews knew the ship was doomed.
Alexander Carlisle was the true designer of the titanic.
He quit the company over the lack of life boats.
Thomas Andrews would take over his role towards the end
Cameron did not miss portray Ismay, he lied to the inquiry as he did tell Chief Bell in Queenstown what speed to have each day. He admitted he never told the Captain about it. Ismay also was a a creep who stalked and later wrote a dozen love letters to Marian Thayer. People stop kissing his arse.
I mean, his behavior during the sinking compared to nowadays and how cowardly some captains were in the same situations.... I really don't blame him. His actions didn't cause any loss of life.
His actions ALONE caused the loss of many lives… he vetoed the proposal for the max number of lifeboats needed for only the minimum by maritime law.. he urged the Captain to speed up (right towards an Ice field) to break a record arriving at New York quicker.. oh and he got on a lifeboat when plenty of other people should have been given his place on the boat with the fact many of his actions caused the disaster! He should have gave the place to some other poor soul and stayed aboard the ship like Captain Smith and Thomas Andrews did.
@@markmcmahon4422 there's no proof of him urging anyone to speak up. Just one "witness" saying so doesn't prove anything
@@markmcmahon4422Exactly..
@@markmcmahon4422 there was Elizabeth Lines testimony who overheard the conversation. She said he was discussing about Titanic's performance. They were comparing Titanic and Olympic. He wanted to see if Titanic could beat Olympic's crossing time she made on her maiden voyage. It was a speed test that was planned to be conducted later Monday or Tuesday if conditions were right. If creating speed records was the motive, it's contradictory to Ismay's very idea of the Olympic class. He knew they can't beat Cunard for speed, so he focused on luxury and operate economically.
According to Alexander Carlisle's testimony, Olympic class's original designer, he thought of 48 lifeboats but it wasn't decided when he left Harland and Wolff. It was Ismay who approved Carlisle's idea of installing Welin davits that could take extra row of boats. There were talks of board of Trade planning to update laws so Welin davits were designed to add more in case law changes in the future. With much more discussions with others, it was finally decided to comply with board of Trade regulations. There are no concrete evidences of lowering lifeboats for aesthetic reasons.
This presentation of yours was excellent.
Just want to say thank you for this video, you have definitely made me think more about the situation Ismay was in that night on the Titanic and life after and honestly I think I would have done the same thing in taking that empty seat on the lifeboat given my situation that night. Thank you again for this great video.
Thanks. I’m really glad you enjoyed the episode.
Ismay was a victim of Hearst and his hatred of Ismay
Crazy that the captain was on his final ever trip to retire, on the maiden voyage of the Titanic.
I would have done the exact same thing as he did. Especially since he waited to get in one of the very last lifeboats that left the ship. It’s a shame that he was labeled a coward. Obviously the people that did so have never been in the position that he was in.
And he actually didn’t jump into his lifeboat the way movies have shown. He just helped women and children into lifeboats until there were none left on the part of the ship he was on and following this, William McMaster Murdock told Ismay that he could board the last seat available in his lifeboat, otherwise he would lower it with that seat being left empty.
Lightoller took it too the extreme, woman and children only at the expense of unfilled lifeboats. The whole thing from start to finish was criminal neglect.
Thanks for the comment. Lightholler will feature in a future episode. Hope you enjoyed the video.
Lightoller did misunderstand the rule completely. But to be fair to him he wasn't prepared for it under the most unbearable pressure and he did do his best. He did save lives and when it was every man for himself he did his best to help men onto Collapsible boat B. He also was the last person to be brought on on to the RMS Carpathia. Today how he handled the situation wouldn't fly. But this was a time were rules were completely diffrent. Lightoller did the best he could but he did many mistakes during the evacuation but I don't think that should consider him criminal worthy for mistakes under the most unbearable situation imaginable.
@@cnote2458 i want to ask, many people think part of the reasoning that the lifeboats arent filled completely was because of panic, and the plan to load people as they go down. that they didnt want people to crowd or try to rush on the boat leading to more injuries or possibly deaths. is this possibly true? i'd love to learn about this!
@@burnt.flowers when the first couple were launched no one wanted to get into them. As they thought the ship couldn't possibly sink and that this was just standard practice of titanic going by the rule book. The Astons the riches people on the ship went of and played in the gym for half hour when the first lifeboats were launched and many others just thought nothing of what was going on. But when the reality of the situation was obvious people were trying there best to get into one. Some saliors were at first hesitate to put so many in the boat as they didn't know about the test and how many were to fit in during the testing. Murdock was amazing and probably saved the most lifes that night. As he filled it up the best he could with woman and children and if none was in the area he would fill it up with men. While lightoller took it woman and children only. But in his defence every salior on board would of know about the HMS Birkenhead and how the captain was considered a massive hero. Which lightoller practically copied to a tee.
@@cnote2458 thank you very much!
This channel deserves more views, quality content!
Thanks for the comment. Glad you’re enjoying my channel 😁.
The movie sure villanized Ismay. But his actions were both heroic and arrogant. His only mistake was coercing Captain Smith into speeding up the ship. All of his actions after that were redeeming.
I would disagree that his actions were heroic rather opportunistic is more apt. The Captain was merely a figurehead on that fateful journey it was Bruce Ismay who was pulling the strings behind the scenes.
@@westnblu the ship should not be at sea in the first place. The titanic was badly build and Ismail knew that.
@@kofmmbs I don't know if that's true. The fact that the ship lasted three hours after striking the iceberg (as opposed to an hour or a half hour) is remarkable and it's because of all the ship's safety designs. It just couldn't survive a collision of that nature, and few ships could. The problem, if you ask me, was the simple fact that they decided to ignore ice warnings and go steaming into an ice field in the middle of the night.
@@shannynmartin3157 in the latest documentaries it is say that the ship has been on fire for weeks and ismay knew of this, you can see a black spot on the right side of the ship. And one of the reasons why the ship was moving so fast is because they didn’t had any fuel. And as for the iceberg warnings Ismay took most of the warnings and didn’t revealed to the captain and crew
@@kofmmbs I googled the coal fire theory and it is regarded by most credible historians as a conspiracy theory. the spot on the side of the ship is actually from when they were painting. Titanic was being painted literally right up until the day it sailed. The fire was way lower on the ship and you would not have been able to actually see damage from it-- certainly not above the water line like that. What's more-- coal fires on board were EXTREMELY common at the time but if they were contained within their enclosed bunkers (I think that's what they were called) then they didn't pose any actual danger. The coal fire on Titanic had no impact on the sinking-- in fact it actually helped because the crewmen putting out the fire had moved a bunch of coal to the other side of the ship for it and that actually helped balance the ship which kept it afloat longer after the collision.
Love how you present your videos plz keep them coming❤
Thank you. I’m glad you enjoy them 👍🏻. I’m currently in the process of making new episodes.
I see nothing wrong with him getting in a lifeboat at the last minute. More should have. As long as they didn't toss out a child to do it. The worst part is not having enough to begin with.
This is a great and well done video.
Thanks for the comment. I’m glad you enjoyed it 👍🏻
Omg you could totally guide tours
That would be my dream job. Maybe, one day.
You are sooo adorable....
I love your cheeky sense of humor 😂
Me...I would have had my ass on the boat so fast and no remorse!
I liked this video!
Love your channel! Keep it up!
Thank you 👍🏻
Once my family were off the ship, I would be getting off any way possible. You get one life and it’s worth fighting for.
Thats what separates a MAN from a COWARD. At least you're an honest coward. J. Jacob Aster and Thomas Andrews also had a families to go home to. But they went down with the ship. I seriously doubt in those last final moments there was NO ONE to take the final seat. Yeah, right.
Hi I’m a titanic fan and have stayed at the white star offices in Liverpool 30 saint james which is now a hotel….worth a visit but refuse a room in the basement….try a room higher….engineers from titanic help build it and you can find rivets everywhere in the hotel…Belfast as well…birth place and museum….the Americans also do museums but are a bit gimmicky whereas the Belfast is more serious and not a fairground…hope to go to Putney next year and visit Bruce…great video
Richard Norris Williams was a neighbor of ours. I was fortunate enough to read his memoirs. His account of the sinking, and the death of his father was riveting.
Wow that’s amazing 😲.
A good video to be sure, though not sure I agree with your conclusions on Ismay, but you did get me thinking. Thank you!
Hey thanks for the comment. Everyone’s opinion is welcome on my channel whether it’s in agreement or opposing, it doesn’t matter. I’m glad you took the time to view and comment on my video 👍🏻. I hope you have a great day!
Media and Hollywood! Poor Bruce RIP
His actions that night where
Not of a coward he knew would die and he was one of the last men to get in and he was in fact ushered in by murdcho I believe as he was on the dock . It’s so tragic
Well presented. Lovely video. However, I find it hard to believe Ismay was the only person around at that stage of the sinking.
Thank you.
After watching this video and another one last night about Ismay, I feel really sorry for him, he wasn’t an evil man but he was a flawed one and I have to give him credit for helping passengers get on the boats. Imagining being in his position, I don’t know what I would have done 😢, may he rest in peace
Thank you very much
I think the "shame" centered around the fact that there were {still} women and children on board the ship - whether or not Ismay himself was even consciously aware of that individually, is another matter altogether.
And I DO possess doubts as to whether or not Ismay and Captain Smith even had ANY type of conversation...how can you NOT have doubts of something you've only been told of secondhand???
That's EXACTLY why I have doubts!
Keep in mind, Ismay had run afoul to a real human iceberg known as newspaper tycoon William Randolph Hearst (aka the real Citizen Kane). Hearst was looking for an excuse to destroy Ismay's reputation through his various newspapers and once he got wind of Ismay being a survivor, Ismay never stood a chance in the public eye.
@@evanbao93 yes yes I forgot about that. 😔😞
There is that culture in the print media isn't there - having it in for one particular "mark" I mean...
Naturally, no apology can ever be expected to be forthcoming (or "lessons will be learned" etc. etc.).
Dude he had to live with the fact that he saw it
Heard it... heard it all.
Love the videos keep them coming will you do on the captain and his family left in England after he perished on the ship
The Captain is on my list for a future episode 👍🏻. I’m glad you enjoy my videos.
There are a number of reasons titanic sank
Two were missing keys to the binoculars and not enough lifeboats
One of those reasons may have been an iceberg.
After his survival did he indeed contribute to ship’s design to avoid future catastrophe? Did he ever disclose if it was indeed an iceberg that the ship hit?
There would have been no point in having the lifeboat row off with an empty seat when a life could be saved in that seat; that it was Ismay's life doesn't change the analysis. If he bears any blame it might be for influencing the decision to sail full speed into the ice field, but I can't see blaming him for taking an available lifeboat seat when his decision to do so apparently did not deny the seat to someone else.
Watch the video of J Bruce Ismay's distant cousin, Derrik Ismay. He says its really unfair that people believe that a woman overheard a conversation between Captian Smith and Bruce Ismay saying he wanted to test the ship's speed. It was never proven to be true, and theres evidence that the ship was not going faster than it should have been.
One too-long comment I will add: about all the second-guessing and blaming people for their actions or inactions. No one on the Titanic had seen the movies, or had access to you tube and internet theories. They had to do the best they could in the situation they were confronting, not knowing what else is going on all over the ship. Lightoller thought the ship's lights he saw in the distance indicated that rescue was near, loading boats to maximum capacity (even if passengers would get into them, especially at first) could result in boats capsizing even before they reached the water 70 feet below. He didn't know how quickly his ship would sink, the other ship would not come. He sent a bosun and some crew to open a lower gangway, thinking more passengers could then get in the partly-filled boats. He never heard of the bosun and other crew again. And Murdoch was very active in loading boats, but only the last boats on starboard were close to being fully loaded. The first boat on starboard, Boat 7 having 28 of 65 and boat 5 37 of 65. That's happening about 75 minutes after the iceburg was hit. Launching a boat took up to 15 minutes to get it down from the boat deck to water: too slow for action to portray it in the movies. On topic, Ismay does according to one witness, mention to Captain Smith how well the ship is doing, maybe more boilers could be put in service tomorrow. He's not saying let's race to get into New York and break a speed record.
My father would disown me if I was in your situation.
it takes big men to achieve what he achieved.... i feel for him and what happened, i believe he was not a bad guy as portrayed, had mammoth ambitions... things just didn't pan out for him. he lived a life so bad after, think he wish he was dead. sad actually... for all, titanic casualries and himself...
For those who feel sympathy for Ismay, don't. The White Star Line Board has been pressuring Ismay for years to resign as General Manager, because he only became the GM is because his father Thomas Henry Ismay was the founder of the company and when he died in 1899 Bruce inherited ownership and the board did not see him as a suited fit to run the company and Titanic sinking was the final nail on the coffin when he resigned a year later.
He started planning his resignation before the Titanic sinking. He discussed his plans in a letter to his friend Harold Sanderson in late 1911.
@@Sarah0583 Those conversations were kept hidden from the public because it is in case he can not convinced the board to accept him as GM until after Titanic sank.
I don't blame him at all. It's not like he threw people out of tbe way to get a seat.
Call it cowardice or what you want. But when it comes to dying a horrible and painful death. 99.99 percent of humans would have got in that boat. It's human instinct to survive. It's easier to live with shame than drowning in a frigid ocean. The whole fiasco is a tragedy. But it all falls on the shoulders of the captain. He knew about the ice warnings but never slowed the ship. He had full responsibility for the passengers and crew. Even if ismay pressured him to hurry along.
I tend to agree...regardless of pressure, it was ultimately the Captain's call. He chose wrong. But in the end, I think placing blame in the end is the wrong way to look at any of it. It's just a horrible tragedy.
And the Captain went down with the ship.
Ida strays didn't
is the model in the first episode the Trumpeter? many thanks. subscribed.
It’s not I’m afraid. It’s the premium line model from Graupner at 1:150 scale. The Trumpeter model looks great but sadly I’m not very good at model building. The model featured in my content was built by a skilled person for me. Thanks for subscribing.
This is excellent. I checked out your channel page, and I see episodes 2 through 5, but not episode 1. Where can I find it?
Hi, I’m glad you like the channel. Episode one is not currently available as it wasn’t very good. It’s just a short video explaining what the channel is all about and doesn’t really bring much to the channel. Some new content will be coming to the channel very soon.
Excellent video. We are coming from the USA in a couple of months and a visit to Mr. Ismays gravesite is on our list. I see some other graves in the Ismay plot. Who else is buried there?
Hi. Thanks for the comment. I’m glad you like the episode. As far as I am aware Ismay is buried along side his wife. His two daughters are buried in separate locations. I hope you have a great time when you come to the UK. There are many other Titanic related sites in and around London that are worth a visit, happy to help further if you’re interested. 😁👍🏻
@@BeyondTheTitanic Definitely interested in Titanic sites. Getting to Putney Vale, our hotel is close to Tottenham Rd Station. We take the Tube to Putney Bridge Station, then the 85 Bus toward Kingston? That will pass by the Cemetery, right?
@@kevinpowers9024that’s correct. I recommend downloading the Citymapper app, it’s a great way to get around the city.
I don’t think a single one of us, in his position, would have said “fuck it, I want to die tonight” and stayed aboard that sinking ship. I blame the hubris that drove the White Star Line and the thinking of the time but in the end the one person who is truly to blame went down with the ship.
Ummm... many people did say fuck it... even the captain. There were numerous people who refused to be rescued for various reason but you saying "I want to die tonight" is absolutely insane.
Thomas Andrews, William Murdoch and Captain Smith all laid their lives down and died aboard Titanic because they felt responsible. Whether or not, the sinking was Ismay’s responsibility, the sinking was White Star Line’s responsibility, and Ismay ran that company.
Guggenheim did just that
"Well, your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't "
Bart Simpson.
If it was just some random male passenger who survived by jumping onto the lifeboat as it was lowering, I don't think the perception would be that bad. Yes, it's women and children first but there was plenty of room on the boat and nobody else on the deck to save. Even the 1997 movie which largely makes him a villain doesn't suggest that he cut in line and someone else died instead of him.
My personal feeling is his bigger issue is the perception (which may not be fair or accurate) that he was the one who prioritized an early arrival above anything else and that he was the one responsible for insufficient lifeboats. If that's how people see him, I can understand someone feeling that, for lack of a better phrase, he had no right to survive if anyone else didn't, let alone 1,500 people.
Again, those notions may not be fair, nor am I even saying it's how I feel. But it does make the branding of him as a coward easier to understand.
All he had to do was get wet. Poor guy had to go hide on one of his estates….. must of been terrible.
7:50 where does this clip come from
It’s from a UK mini series called Titanic by Julian Fellows released in 2012.
SUPER SAD TO SEE HOW PEOPLE DECEIVE THEMSELVES THINKING THAT THEY REALLY ARE THE KINGS OF THE WORLD
Well if he would provided enough save boats on the deck as required , probably the number of the saved one would be closer to 2000 souls at least
Ismay should have stayed aboard.
Ismay was negatively portrayed even in 1943 Nazi German movie Titanic.
Hi Joseph thank you for your reply , just my opinion, however I look at like this , ismay got into a lifeboat leaving 1500 men , woman & CHILDREN still on the sinking ship , my question to you & everyone else who thinks ismay is blameless is this
WAS ISMAYS LIFE WORTH MORE THAN ONE OF THOSE CHILDREN ?
what would you have done ?
What would I have done , hopefully tried to save some more lives
Let's not forget it was almost certainly ismay who cut the number of lifeboats in the first place
Massive failings? Yes. Every child in 1st class got on a lifeboat. Third class? Most left to drown with their mothers. Even now only the rich passengers are discussed.
Wasn't there a single first class child that was killed. I think I read that. Please correct me if I'm mistaken
@@vampirehunter533 I read the same
You are correct, two year old Helen Loraine Allison, aged 2, perished with her parents in the sinking. All were travelling first class.
There were numerous children in the third class who drowned in the sea inside the ship. Here compares the number of 2 children in the first class...
Poor man he chose to live and the quality of his life was worse for it.
I never quite understood the hate that they laid upon this man. He got into an open spot on the last lifeboat launched from the starboard side. He got into a lifeboat that had other men on it. What did he do that was so wrong? The media of the day was looking for a scandal because it sells papers and they ginned this one up. That's my take on it. More scandalous to me was how White Star stopped paying crew at 2:30 when the ship went down. How they tried to get the survivors to pay for the uniforms of the deceased. You want to talk about plain evil, that's it.
Can somebody please tell what he said at 9:31
I'm sorry to hear about Ismay's experience but as far as I am aware apart from writing to one of the widows he didn't do much to redeem himself after the disaster
I don;t feel sorry for him! Although I enjoyed this very much, you forgot some facts about Bruce. # 1 it was Bruce that the had the number of lifeboats reduced, The original plans of the Titanic shows adequate lifeboats for passengers but Bruce felt that it made the promenade deck look too crowded so he had the number reduced! # 2 It was Bruce who had the tops of the watertight compartments lowered one deck because he wanted more open spaces on the decks. Not only getting into a lifeboat to trouble his mind, he had those other things to remember!
Nothing more than a coward who ran away
Selfish coward or not, he should have not getting into the lifeboat when women and children were still on board. THAT was his downfall
How come that he didn't take the seat away from somebody?1500 people on Titanic refused to sit on that boat is that what you are saying?
Some people weren’t aware, yes there was people around collapsible c when it launched but there was no women or children around.
@@dalekexterminae He very well knew there were women and children in the ship, just because they weren't around doesn't excuse his selfish behaviour. If they weren't there, that was because they were told the ship was safe and not to panic or they simply didn't know there was another a boat to be launched. The whole video is designed to whitewash him which is disgusting.
Would any of us done different?
Still must lay on the sword.
Poor Ismay 😂
His valet & secretary went down with the ship. Don't know how he could go on with good conscience as he helped himself to that seat.
As I understand it, he got into a lifeboat just as it was being lowered, so he didn't take anyone's seat. It's easy to say he should've stayed on board anyway, due to his role as director, but once you picture yourself at the brink of eternal nothingness, what he did is easy to understand.
He should've felt guilty about the lifeboat shortage and the dangerous speed, but not about surviving.
If the Marconi Men hadn't fixed the radio that Sunday, Titanic would have disappeared with little information.
That is true. Harold Bride and Jack Phillips were certainly one of the many people that night who contributed greatly to the number of those who were saved.
And if the Carpathia’s Marconi Man hadn’t stayed up past his usual bedtime that night, hadn’t wore his headphones while only in the process of getting undressed for bed, and hadn’t awakened Captain Rostron, Titanic would’ve disappeared with much less information.
Call him a coward but he tried to save has many people that he could then he saved himself
Problem is human hubris we are invincible or above nature.
Ismay the coward "helped" load the lifeboats insomuch as he was looking for a opportunity to abandon ship without authorization.
Its the same has you said what would have you have done?, i think anyone else would have done same!!.
That the problem every body feel sorry for ismay i dont because they did not have a enough life boat for everyone on the ship an the boats are for women an childrens a lot of men when down with the ship he is the president of the company so he should when down with the ship he live the rest of his life in shame an he dervers it
No, he shouldn’t have gone down with the ship. If he hadn’t taken the seat available in the Collapsible C lifeboat, nobody would’ve. It was actually a good thing he survived the disaster too.
What would we actually have known without the Survival of J. Bruce Ismay?
He most certainly DID take that seat from many other people! 1500+ people would closer to the truth. You say that he was one of a handful of people that knew the true danger that they faced yet they held people back in steerage. He watched those boats leave with TONS of empty seats. One left with roughly 12 to 14 people in it.
I believe you are referring to lifeboat 1 which had a capacity of 40 but had only 12 seats filled. Said lifeboat was loaded and launched by first officer Murdoch. So I can’t see how Ismay is accountable for that.
Empty seats were a failing on the part of the crew, under the command of a Captain who had lost all control of the situation. Ismay was a passenger on board and was in no way responsible for filling or launching lifeboats any more than any other passenger was. The responsibility of ensuring lifeboats were loaded and launched correctly ultimately rested upon those in command.
There is no evidence that officers held people back in steerage, looks like you're basing your knowledge off of the film...
Just goes to show the effect that modern day media has on people's understanding of historical events and not actual facts. The point, which is concisely presented in this video, is that those seats were not being filled. Granted, White Star Line were responsibile for the lack of lifeboats however, if he had not taken that seat, he would have been another soul lost. On the flip side, had he had died, at least he would have been viewed more positively in the history books, just like Captain Smith who also played a negative role in contributing to the sinking. Yet we view Captain Smith as the heoric figure who went down with his ship.
Seems like people would have viewed Ismay's death as a form of justice due to his involvement in the company. Sad to see that, although so many people lost their lives, people would still have valued his death more than his life. Living a life riddled with guilt would, in my opinion, be worse than death.
I wonder how many 3rd class passengers died..
@@carolineclay839 yeah, i heard that he boarded a lifeboat when no one else was left to take his spot. and that he also helped load passengers in, yes he did panic at first but helped afterwards.
Its what he did before the ship sailed
Bulkheads to low not enough life boats and cheap rivets
He was a coward, how many passengers from the 3rd classes children and woman could have been saved instead of him.
None considering the fact that Murdoch would’ve lowered Collapsible C without anyone taking its last seat if Ismay rejected it and Ismay was not a coward.
He is and was the villain
Cameron’s portrayal of Ismay is bullshit. If there’s any of Ismays family still alive the should sue for defamation of character.
I'm not on one side or the other...but I don't see how the portrayal was inaccurate, given all I've read & watched about the titanic.
@@josephinakeam6197 Ismay is in fact *DID* not do a coward move. That's the difference. He only take the seat because nobody else was there to take the seat. And before that he even helped many of the passangers to board into the lifeboat.
@@th3ra83There was no one to get into the lifeboat, that's why 1500 people died in the disaster.OMG...How people can portray and consider him a saint????
@@shynilean7431 it is miscalculation and overconfidence. But he is not as bad as what people thought to be. That's all.
@@th3ra83 overconfidence??? Check the real history and accept the real facts. Even a little child in this world knows that third-class passengers were not allowed to commute with first-class people in lifeboats. The crew mostly gave importance to the lives of high-status people. It is not a good mentality to believe that all 1500 innocent people chose their death themselves. He is a 'COWARD'.
Here's the thing. You can't shoot somebody, then get credit for driving the victim to the hospital. Ismay showed severe negligence, and so did the Captain. I read through his deposition, and he seemed to be very removed from the technical and working aspects of the ship. He couldn't even describe the trials (tests) the Titanic had gone through before its maiden voyage, but just knew they had been passed. He also didn't ask his general managers for any kind of reports, only what they wanted to tell him. If a Managing Director behaved like this today following the same disaster, claiming ignorance and that it was somebody else's job to know, they would be destroyed. He also was aware the Titanic didn't have enough lifeboats, when orinally there was. Given his preoccupation with the Titanic's speed during the journey, I'm assuming it was so the Titanic was carrying less weight so it could move faster. Elizabeth Lines was the first class passenger who allegedly overheard Ismay and the Captain talking about the Titanic's speed and beating the Olympic (Ismay's previous ship which held the record for biggest ocean liner in the world). This is a first class woman who wouldn't have any reason to know the motivations of a ship's captain and its owner. They were also trying to compete with another luxury liner company at the time, so even more reason to beat Titanic's ETA - the biggest luxury liner in the world beats her own speed. Ismay behaved more like a figurehead for his company, than a responsible leader.
Obviously this was a very different time, but by today's standards, he would absolutely be responsible. The Captain also should have known better. Even if Ismay did want to go faster, they both knew there had been ice spotted in the area and ignored the warnings. An experienced captain should have pushed back.
It's a shame Ismay's family had to pay for his negligence. That's absolutely not deserved. But I don't think the blame he received was unwarranted.
Hubris sunk the Titanic
I hate the James Cameron movie.
It cheapens the whole disaster to the level of a teenage girls’ comic.
I like your video.
Women and children first was always the rule and nearly 200 women and children died in the disaster. Not sure I would want to admit to being the same coward as Ismay was mate but each to their own.
you seem to forget that Bruce Ismay had lowered the number of lifeboats from 48 which was suggested to 16. Bruce Ismay once said "people dont pay to look at lifeboats".
The regulations surrounding lifeboat capacity were set by the board of trade, not WS. Titanic was not the only ship afloat at the time which did not carry enough lifeboats. In fact Titanic only needed 16 to meet the legal requirements. WS actually went above and beyond said requirements with 20 boats.
As for the quote you used. I believe that was taken from a dramatisation of the events, from an actor.
@@BeyondTheTitanicWhite Star knew the rules were outdated by the sheer increase in size of the Olympic class ships. Just because the followed the rules doesn’t make them right.
When they were making ships that big, they should have had enough number of lifeboats. I am also pretty sure that as a big company they had a lot of power with which to push the standards through the board.
@@nerimanuzuner8287 at that time titanic did have enough life boats under the law. however the standard was based on tonnage, and at titanics time titanic is 5 times larger than the ships that the law would be good for.
today the law is the lifeboats must accommodate125% of the people on board.
So, if they had 48 boats, would that make a difference?
The ship sank very slow, they had more than 2 and a half hours, they had only 20 boats, and for that time they barely could lower these 20 boats.
Imagine if they could lower the rest if they had them.
When the Lusitania was torpedoed, she had 48 boats.
But since she sank in 18 minutes, only 6 of these boats we lowered. And again a lot of people died, nearly 1200.
So the number of the boats it's not decisive whether a ship is safe or not.
And one more thing.
Many people think that many ships (if not all) sink in the conditions similar in which the Titanic sank: calm waters, where a place in the lifeboats is the difference between life and death.
But you know, most of the ships sink in very different conditions: in storms (when there are big waves) and near the coastal rocks.
So if your ship is sinking in a stormy weather near the rocks, these wooden boats couldn't guarantee you anything.
In fact, few years earlier before the Titanic, another White Star Line's ship sank very slowly near the coast in stormy weather.
So the passengers had a choice: remain on the ship and wait for help, or try to evacuate with the boats.
Since it was stormy, almost all of those who choose the boats, drowned. Those who remained on the ship and waited for another ship to save them, survived.
So, from the point of view of the owners, the ship itself is the best possible lifeboat.
They invested a lot to make the ships as safe as possible. The Olympic and the Titanic were the safest ships in the world at that time.
Unfortunately it turned out that all her safety features were not enough, the ship was in the wrong time at the wrong place. Any other ship would sink, many even faster.
So if this happened to the safest ship in the world, it was clear that some improvements should be made.
No more speeding in the dark when you know there is ice ahead. No more sleeping wireless operators while somebody asks for help. And many other things.
sorry dont agree with this reporters take on bruce ismay .
has managing director of the white star line why were lifeboats leaving partially filled ? by all the accounts he played a part in helping the crew to load them. So again why were some of them not filled to capacity .when he entered lifeboat c he stated that there were no passengers in the vacinity ? really ? 1500 people went into the water when titank sank yet there were no passengers near one of the last lifeboats to be launched at 2am ? .also whatever your opinion is on mr ismay hero or villian what did expect would happen ? in 1912 just like today when disaster occurs the press look for scapegoats . ( remember the concordia ) .so being the most senoir member of the company to survive when 1500 people perished , he was going to have to answer for his actions .
there were 109 children on the titanic , 60 pershished . Was mr ismays life worth more than theirs ?
okay, so I'll see you in 2039,..lol