I have been a gamer since 1965 and just got into Marvel Champions. I have been wanting to find a good tutoral on MC deckbuilding and now I found it. You give a great basic starting point. I can take your tutoral start and swap out a few cards to get the feel for what I need to do and not go in blind. Very well done. If I find anybody who wants to learn deckbuilding for MC I will send them here.
@@DaringLime Haveing a love for History I played Avalon Hills military simulations Ex wining as Napoleon at Waterloo. Boy have things changed, back then 4 color boards & 4 page rules folder. Oh yeah the cost was $10 to $15 a game
@@DaringLime In the '60s I played The military simulation games. Ex playing Napoleon and winning at Waterloo, Back them the games were 4 color boards, 4 page rules and cost like $15 a game. The are fun
Thank you so much for this. I was losing to Red Skull 4 times in a row with different combinations of Spider-Man and then Captain America. I have always been nervous to deck build, but the default decks weren't cutting it against Red Skull. Finally using the beat cops allowed my Spidey to better control threat and take down that jerk!
I haven't even finished watching this but I paused to say i love this video! I really like your approach on these interesting ways to look at deckbuilding!
@@stephcshea777 that’s great to hear! I’m going to make more videos in the future talking about how to break these guidelines. And decks that I have made that don’t follow them. For instance my star lord deck doesn’t have avengers mansion or helicarrier for solo
fantastic video! overall these guidelines are great and you definitely included some things that not everyone would notice about how the aspects and cards work.
Great video! I was looking to make a similar video myself and wanted to see what's out there, but after watching yours I think I agree on pretty much everything so there's no need lol
I don't think you need at least 6 minions in every deck. Unless I'm playing Leadership, I do 4, which works out great. If I'm playing Leadership, then I include at least 6.
@@pietrorasputin52 there are decks that don’t need 6. And you can break that guideline for sure! I just recommend 6 because it will be more consistent for people, and I personally like at least 6 for almost all my decks. That said though, I don’t often include as many events as most people. I find allies to be a better choice than events most of the time. Your point about adding more allies in leadership Is good. I don’t think I mentioned that! And you are correct!
Have been watching your videos as I just got back to MC few days ago. I have a question regarding deck building though. Would you always build a deck with the intention of having fun or it being the best and is capable of beating Ronan on expert? I am trying out Ronan Expert and I lost my past 2 games due to the amount of boosts he gets. I also saw several youtubers like posting playthroughs and decklists that are capable of fighting Ronan. Would you consider a deck to be a failure if it can't beat Ronan expert consistently (I am talking about true solo and I am not even sure if every hero/aspect combo is able to beat Ronan expert)? Is it fair to judge a deck based on the Ronan matchup or do you recommend just judging it based on 90% of all other villains?
@@YuukiXIV I don’t think it is worth making every deck capable of beating expert Ronan. It limits your options by a lot and there is a lot more to experience I. The game than just beating hard villains. I’m planning on making more content that is against standard villains to show case more fun builds. I think it’s a fun challenge to build a deck that can beat Ronan. And beating expert Ronan is a good way to prove that your deck is good. But build variety is important! These decks I showed in the video are capable of attempting expert Ronan in solo. But by no means built for it. And even with perfect play would lose more often than win. Don’t feel like your deck isn’t good if it can’t beat a certain villain. A deck is good in my opinion if it is fun! And I think that is why you should build for. It isn’t fun to lose though, which is why I made this guide. So in my opinion build a deck that is fun and can function well enough to win on standard against a decent amount of villains. Don’t worry about Ronan, unless you want to.
I think defensive protection builds hit their stride at 3-4 player. They have more consistent damage than Justice, more consistent thwarting than aggression, and more survivability than all aspects. At 1-2 players problems can be dealt with in bursts but at 3-4 the efficiency of cards like Containment Strategy or Hard to Ignore skyrockets. Lastly damage mitigation=threat mitigation. If you can keep teammates from taking damage they won’t need to flip down and the villain won’t scheme. It’s not flashy and may not feel super satisfying but it certainly can put in work.
@@jongahimer5338 I agree. Protection gets better as you get more players! Though I do really like going into alter ego in multiplayer. Some characters have really good alter ego abilities like captain marvel, or black panthers golden city. In 3 player and up I think having both a justice and protection player is a great idea!
@@DaringLime Running multiple copies of a “Max 1 of” card is something I can’t quite bring myself to do. I can understand the argument for consistency, particularly in Solo where you have to manage everything and/or win quickly, but in my 2-4 player games it just feels bad to see a card that can’t be played. I’ve also heard the argument “it’s not useless, it’s a resource”. Which is also true, but if I was going to have any card that doubles as a resource I think I’d rather have a 0-1 cost card, because they come with the added utility of being playable which can minimize instances of leftover cards at end of turn. One of my top considerations when deck-building is “can I consistently play out every hand without anything left over”?
@@jongahimer5338 I like it in some situations but in general i agree. I usually take them out of precon decks. I like multiple armored vests and whatnot for multiplayer.
@@DaringLime Usually if I’m running armored vest in multiplayer I’m playing Perfect Defense with lots of readies. Between that and chump blockers I don’t think my teammates would get much mileage out of Armored Vest although Skilled Investigator is a different story.
@@jongahimer5338 ya it might only come up a time or two where it matters, but also it gets it out of your deck so it isn't a dead card at least. I think it is good to only have one as well though. What's your favorite hereos to play perfect defense on?
Fantastic video. I really like how you broke down the different categories and how to think about it. I also like that you went all the cards that you like to use as that is super helpful. I do have a quick question though. Why does the plus hit points give you an extra activation? And is that extra activation only one time (I would imagine so). I’ve tried looking in the rulebook, but I can’t find anything. Is it because it heals you and makes you ready?
Team training gives your allies an extra hit point. Allies take consequential damage for activating. So if they have one more health they get an extra activation. Take Maria Hill for instance. 2 Health, 2 THW, she can remove 4 thwart with 2 activations. If you have team training, she can take 3 consequential damage, and thwart for 6. More common though is you use your final hitpoint on your allies for a block. So realistically, with no team training, maria hill thwarts 2 and blocks, and with team training, she can thwart 4 then block. Hope that helps!
@@DaringLime got it! That makes perfect sense! (not sure why/how I missed it) Have you thought about doing a series talking about the villains, and what cards each aspect might need to have success against them? Or a strategy on how to handle them? That would be awesome for new players. :) I know after talking on reddit about how to use certain justice cards it really had a difference in being able to handle side schemes in RotRS campaign. Just needed like 3 or 4 cards and it made a world of difference (Jessica Jones, Skilled Investigator, etc.).
@@Glynixx ua-cam.com/video/N-KUP_tyMRY/v-deo.html I made that a while back which I think fits into what you're talking about, and I can make more of them! Than k you for the ideas!
@@Glynixx that’s great! Would you like to see more videos like this? I was thinking about doing full deck builds that are more intricate than these ones I showed and going over them
Okay when a card is trait locked, like in your example the Ingenuity card only works for someone with the Genius trait right. Do I have to be on the side of the hero card that is labeled Genius in order to use Ingenuity or can I use it on the side where it's not labelled Genius but technically my character is still Genius traited on the alter ego side? ATM I play a lot of the xmen cards and the mutant/xmen trait only stuff throws me off and I'm worried I may be playing things incorrectly.
Yes unfortunately you do. For instance you can’t play X-Gene in hero form which is why I prefer deft focus over it. And also ingenuity can’t be played in hero form because the genius trait is technically “out of play”.
This might be a hot take, but in 4 man multi-player specifically, I think Mansion is a bit of a trap card. The villain does so much in 4p that burning a whole turn to get mansion out can have less impact than addressing the problems on the table, and ends up doing more harm than good.
@@DaringLime Depends on the group of 4 we have (About 8 people in our friend group play to varying degrees of sweatiness), but we usually lean towards expert scenarios, sometimes with customized scenarios (Extra encounter sets and in some cases homebrewed rules/scenarios). Been doing a lot of the Age of Apocalypse box recently, and all the Mojo scenarios were big hits with us too. Magneto, Mansion Attack and Mysterio, Sinister 6, Ultron and Hela hit the table a decent amount as well. We usually run one of each aspect as well, both to make deckbuilding easier/have less overlap, and also because it seems to be more efficient when we all have specialized roles. I often end up in the Justice role, which may also be affecting my opinion on Mansion, since 4p justice sometimes needs to hit the ground running. The way I see it, you need at least 5 turns of mansion draws to refund the opportunity cost of playing Mansion + 4 cards to pay for it. In 4p I think a turn with no impact on board state to get a single card draw/turn can set you farther behind than playing an ally + event would have, or a cheaper setup card. I personally end up thinking cheaper card draw like Mission Leader, Skilled Investigator, Unflappable, Blood Rage, and Hall of Heroes end up more useful since they don't slow you down as much. Same deal with card draw that comes with a body like Maria Hill, Nick Fury, Ironheart, and Moon Girl.
@@fromundaman I like those scenarios a lot as well! One thing I was talking about on stream was how apocalypse 1 is super hard in solo and easy in multiplayer and that apocalypse 2 (en sabah nur) is super easy in solo and really hard in multiplayer. I do prefer to get card draw from things like iron heart and Mariah hill. I understand what you’re saying about how long it takes mansion to pay off. I think most people agree with you. I personally value mansion more than that and think it pays off in 5 turns, or as soon as it allows me to play a card I otherwise wouldn’t have been able to, or until I draw a card that is better for the situation than my hand was previously. I like hall of heroes a lot for multiplayer. There are so many minions in multiplayer that it pays off well. It’s a bit slow though, having to take out 3 minions and flip to alter ego before the card draw happens, but it is amazing for final pushes when I’m trying to do 40+ damage in one turn. I like having roles for each aspect when playing 4 player. It make the decision making and deck building a lot more streamlined for each player. And personally I like protection a lot more in multiplayer than I do in solo. Thanks for filling me in in your games! I like hearing from people how they play the game. And I envy how large your playgroup is! That’s amazing!
This is a great video! I definitely agree with the general guidelines. I think for card count (specifically 40 vs 45 vs 50 cards), the big considerations are: 1. How many cards do I draw per turn? If you are a standard hero drawing 5 cards per turn in hero and 6 in alter-ego, anything between 42 and 46 cards will add 1 turn to potentially finding a key card. This is especially true combined with number 2. 2. How many upgrades/supports do I have, or what does my second deck cycle look like? If you run an event-heavy deck, your second deck cycle might have 35 cards. If you run an upgrade-heavy deck (perfect defense protection or Ms. Marvel or SP//dr), your second deck cycle might have 30 cards. So adding an upgrade to a deck as card 41 impacts your future deck size less than adding an event. 3. Is there a clear worst card in the deck I could remove by adding this new card? I've had situations where I am sitting at 40 or 41 cards, and want to add a card because I think it will help, but then recognize that I can actually reduce an event or something to keep my card count low. Also a note on "Power Of X" Double resources. You have to balance their chance to hit (give you a chance to gain an extra resource with the matching aspect card) with their chance to whiff. For example: If you have 10 aspect cards with 2+ cost, you will draw a "Power Of X" double and a 2+ cost card together on about 19% of hands (hit). On 7% of hands, you will draw only the power of X card without the aspect card (whiff). Finally, on 52% of hands, you will draw a 2+ cost aspect card without a "Power of X" card to go with it. Generally, this okay for the average game but you may whiff a too much for it to be worth it in a more challenging game. That being said, this is a starting framework/guide for deckbuilding, so telling people to generically add them is definitely the right call! A good rule of thumb I've found experimentally is 1 Power Card for 8 aspect cards, and 2 Power Cards for 12 aspect cards. Love to hear your thoughts on that!
That's great feedback! I like what you said about thinking about cycle 2 of your deck. In Justice and Protection especially when you have longer games, you will likely go through 1-2 deck cycles, and then avengers mansion, helicarrier, upgrades, etc won't be there! Your 3 points are important and I'm glad you brought them up! Regarding the Power Of cards, I don't have any rules for myself on when to add them. I do pay attention and make sure there are targets for them, but if I have only 4-5 targets I still feel good adding them, because having a dead wild resource card in my hand doesn't really feel like a dead card in a lot o cases. Many villains have resource requirements to get rid of attachments, obligations, etc, that the power of cards would still be good for even if you don't have an aspect card to use them on. Because of that use, and the high impact of when it does work and you can play an extra card on a turn that you wouldn't have been able to without the Power Of card, I almost always add them. That being said, I wouldn't play them if I only had 1-2 targets in my whole deck, but because I like to run at least 4 or so aspect allies, that almost never happens for me. Regarding your rule, I think that makes sense! 1 for 8 and 2 for 12 or more. How many would you run if you had 9, 10, or 11? While I don't have a rule for myself, I think if I was to make one for myself, it would be to run both of them if I have at least 4 targets, but I generally prefer higher cost events and play allies so it doesn't come up much in my deck builds. Thanks for the comment! I love talking about this stuff.
@@DaringLime For me, I'd run 1 for 8, 9, 10, or 11. Only run 2 at 12+. In general I run less power of's because the double doesn't always get me an extra card play, so some hits don't actually change my turn. I think one other big consideration is how important your cards are that you are playing with a power of X. The Power in All of Us is super strong because it makes some very good cards (Nick/X, Mansion, X-Jet/Quincarrier, lots of good basic allies I want to play) much easier to get into play. Sometimes power of justice doesn't play a key card, just a solid thwart event (For Justice), which is less impactful so I want more chances for it to work for me to include it.
@@LeroyJJenkins I do really like power in all of us to get nick fury, avengers mansion and the like out. It makes a big difference if you can afford mansion first turn and still do something
Alright, why I think this video is good, and genuinely comes from good intentions, I will make a hopefully constructive criticism about it. But I know you"re a kind and helpful guy, and a very good player Daring Lime: No Doubt. So I hope noone take it at personnal attack or something, because I deeply love the player, and the work behind the video. I just want to "fight" the "hive mind", that can "hurt" the community. Criticism below.
The notion of "auto include /staple", while "true" to some level, can also be detrimental to the creative part of the game. I think the Game Designers of Marvel Champions did an amazing job at scaling difficulty of the game : some villains are easy some other are tough, and there is standard or expert or even standard III. The Game Designers did also an amazing job at designing card compare to many other cards game I know, whether TCG and LCG. This video give very good "guidelines", to help people who struggle with deck building, and that is great: really, and I mean it. But... Helicarier, Avengers Mansion and Nick Fury are "easy problem solvers", but in no way, shape or form "auto include". what you need to put in your deck is "Drawing Solution", "Resource Generating solution", "Defense solution", "attack solution", and "threat solution". With that in mind, you can be creative, especially, if you are not playing Ronan Expert. For example, i have a Venom Deck which is quite efficient in expert, and very powerful in standard. And it uses the card pool synergisticly. Gamora and Guardian of the Galaxy team card is "my drawer". I have some cheap allies upgrade which I can Fish with "Lock and Load" event from Venom Kit. And I use enhanced card, which are less efficient than helicarrier in a vaccum, but help venom play his amazing defense event card, that give him tempo. And I run power in all of us to pay for all my allies, which are all basic, but neither nick fury nor professor X. "Auto include" are a "myth". They are very good card that solve problem easily and steadily: no doubt. But Be creative people, and experiment. As long as you are not playing high challenging villain in tough difficulties, this game is forgiving and does not ask for over optimization. For God Sake, Hulk is playable with full card pool. I come in Peace, and I hope people understand why that message is made for.
Ya I don’t take offense to that at all! You make a good point. I didn’t mean to imply that you couldn’t build a good deck without those if I did. I was gearing this video to people that are newer to deck building with small card pools, and adding nick fury the doubles, and avengers mansion and helicarrier is something that everyone will have and will be solid. There are also definitely more options than what I added on the last slide. Those were just some of my favorite cards that I think are also strong. To everyone reading this be creative! And deviate from the guide lines in this video when you feel comfortable with deck building. Thank you for the feedback!
@@DaringLime I totally understood what you are trying to achieve with that video, and I sincerely think it is a good one. You even highlight some tricky Allie like "black panther", or "Snowguard", which demonstrate how open minded you are. I'm just trying to point that the term "auto include", in itself can have some detrimental side effect, on the "brain" of the community. Most youtube video are expert player who play expert mode. I also play expert only for long time now. But I think this is "our" responsibility to not "alienate people" by keeping in mind that many players play standard, and that the game is really open. I don't fight your video, which is very good, I fight the term "auto include" and its intricacies. It can lead to "toxic" mindset, and I saw that in my country, which is why I don't engage with youtube from my country. "You should play One or Another in any justice deck. or "This card is terrible, you should never play it". That kind of stuff. Maybe this is why I'm trying to be very cautious with term and concept, because I think english community is on a much better/healthier path.
@@alberttaco3668 Ah I understand more now! I will take that into account in my future videos and I can try to find a term that implies that it is a good thing to add but not inalienable. Thank you!
Ya it is a pity. He comes with really good protection cards as well. I picked him up early and I’m glad I did lol, hopefully him being out of print means a lot of people have him though! Glad you liked the video!
Finally! Someone who's teaching deck building instead of just saying to copy someone else's deck from a website. Thank you!
No prob! I hope this inspires people to make some of their own decks!
I have been a gamer since 1965 and just got into Marvel Champions. I have been wanting to find a good tutoral on MC deckbuilding and now I found it. You give a great basic starting point. I can take your tutoral start and swap out a few cards to get the feel for what I need to do and not go in blind. Very well done. If I find anybody who wants to learn deckbuilding for MC I will send them here.
@@douglaspearson4853 I appreciate that so much! And I feel honored to be recommended by you. What games were you playing in the 60’s?
@@DaringLime Haveing a love for History I played Avalon Hills military simulations Ex wining as Napoleon at Waterloo. Boy have things changed, back then 4 color boards & 4 page rules folder. Oh yeah the cost was $10 to $15 a game
@@douglaspearson4853 Ya they have changed a lot since then! Do you like the extra complications that new games have?
@@DaringLime In the '60s I played The military simulation games. Ex playing Napoleon and winning at Waterloo, Back them the games were 4 color boards, 4 page rules and cost like $15 a game. The are fun
Thanks!!! Now I am going to start my deck buildings and I am not copying from someone else anymore.
@@bobsuisse2 that’s so nice to hear! Let me know how it goes for you.
Thank you so much for this. I was losing to Red Skull 4 times in a row with different combinations of Spider-Man and then Captain America. I have always been nervous to deck build, but the default decks weren't cutting it against Red Skull. Finally using the beat cops allowed my Spidey to better control threat and take down that jerk!
@@vahidrvahidr that’s great! Bear cop goes well with Spider-Man because he can afford it really easy. Glad you took him down!
I haven't even finished watching this but I paused to say i love this video! I really like your approach on these interesting ways to look at deckbuilding!
@@stephcshea777 that’s great to hear! I’m going to make more videos in the future talking about how to break these guidelines. And decks that I have made that don’t follow them. For instance my star lord deck doesn’t have avengers mansion or helicarrier for solo
Looking forward to more!
fantastic video! overall these guidelines are great and you definitely included some things that not everyone would notice about how the aspects and cards work.
Thank you! I do my best lol
So interesting guide! Always checking different ideas and points of view! Thanks for the video!
Very good strategy for deck building! Thanks for the video!
@@Bogrin no problem! I’m glad you liked it :)
Great video! I was looking to make a similar video myself and wanted to see what's out there, but after watching yours I think I agree on pretty much everything so there's no need lol
Make the video anyways! You'll have a different style and different insights than me! I think it is a good idea to post stuff. And thank you!
Excellent video. Love the format and how you got directly to it. Great side note in between points too.
Thanks! I try to keep things concise to not waste people's time.
It’s funny how different deck building can be for different people, I usually gravitate more towards upgrades and events instead of allies 👍
That’s a totally valid to play too!
I don't think you need at least 6 minions in every deck. Unless I'm playing Leadership, I do 4, which works out great.
If I'm playing Leadership, then I include at least 6.
@@pietrorasputin52 there are decks that don’t need 6. And you can break that guideline for sure! I just recommend 6 because it will be more consistent for people, and I personally like at least 6 for almost all my decks. That said though, I don’t often include as many events as most people. I find allies to be a better choice than events most of the time. Your point about adding more allies in leadership
Is good. I don’t think I mentioned that! And you are correct!
Great advice for brand new players!
Thank you!
Have been watching your videos as I just got back to MC few days ago. I have a question regarding deck building though. Would you always build a deck with the intention of having fun or it being the best and is capable of beating Ronan on expert? I am trying out Ronan Expert and I lost my past 2 games due to the amount of boosts he gets. I also saw several youtubers like posting playthroughs and decklists that are capable of fighting Ronan. Would you consider a deck to be a failure if it can't beat Ronan expert consistently (I am talking about true solo and I am not even sure if every hero/aspect combo is able to beat Ronan expert)? Is it fair to judge a deck based on the Ronan matchup or do you recommend just judging it based on 90% of all other villains?
@@YuukiXIV I don’t think it is worth making every deck capable of beating expert Ronan. It limits your options by a lot and there is a lot more to experience I. The game than just beating hard villains. I’m planning on making more content that is against standard villains to show case more fun builds. I think it’s a fun challenge to build a deck that can beat Ronan. And beating expert Ronan is a good way to prove that your deck is good. But build variety is important! These decks I showed in the video are capable of attempting expert Ronan in solo. But by no means built for it. And even with perfect play would lose more often than win. Don’t feel like your deck isn’t good if it can’t beat a certain villain. A deck is good in my opinion if it is fun! And I think that is why you should build for. It isn’t fun to lose though, which is why I made this guide. So in my opinion build a deck that is fun and can function well enough to win on standard against a decent amount of villains. Don’t worry about Ronan, unless you want to.
I think defensive protection builds hit their stride at 3-4 player. They have more consistent damage than Justice, more consistent thwarting than aggression, and more survivability than all aspects. At 1-2 players problems can be dealt with in bursts but at 3-4 the efficiency of cards like Containment Strategy or Hard to Ignore skyrockets. Lastly damage mitigation=threat mitigation. If you can keep teammates from taking damage they won’t need to flip down and the villain won’t scheme. It’s not flashy and may not feel super satisfying but it certainly can put in work.
@@jongahimer5338 I agree. Protection gets better as you get more players! Though I do really like going into alter ego in multiplayer. Some characters have really good alter ego abilities like captain marvel, or black panthers golden city. In 3 player and up I think having both a justice and protection player is a great idea!
@@DaringLime Running multiple copies of a “Max 1 of” card is something I can’t quite bring myself to do. I can understand the argument for consistency, particularly in Solo where you have to manage everything and/or win quickly, but in my 2-4 player games it just feels bad to see a card that can’t be played. I’ve also heard the argument “it’s not useless, it’s a resource”. Which is also true, but if I was going to have any card that doubles as a resource I think I’d rather have a 0-1 cost card, because they come with the added utility of being playable which can minimize instances of leftover cards at end of turn. One of my top considerations when deck-building is “can I consistently play out every hand without anything left over”?
@@jongahimer5338 I like it in some situations but in general i agree. I usually take them out of precon decks. I like multiple armored vests and whatnot for multiplayer.
@@DaringLime Usually if I’m running armored vest in multiplayer I’m playing Perfect Defense with lots of readies. Between that and chump blockers I don’t think my teammates would get much mileage out of Armored Vest although Skilled Investigator is a different story.
@@jongahimer5338 ya it might only come up a time or two where it matters, but also it gets it out of your deck so it isn't a dead card at least. I think it is good to only have one as well though. What's your favorite hereos to play perfect defense on?
How do you feel about building a deck that’s all basic? I feel like there is enough good stuff to do it now!
I have a video on my channel talking about basic. Short answer, yes. Basic is extremely powerful.
@ nice! I’ll check it out for sure and would love to see a video of you building a basic deck!
I’ve now watched it and you basically did build a basic deck! Very cool haha
@ I’ll do that at some point!
@ thanks:) glad you liked it!
Fantastic video. I really like how you broke down the different categories and how to think about it. I also like that you went all the cards that you like to use as that is super helpful.
I do have a quick question though. Why does the plus hit points give you an extra activation? And is that extra activation only one time (I would imagine so). I’ve tried looking in the rulebook, but I can’t find anything. Is it because it heals you and makes you ready?
Team training gives your allies an extra hit point. Allies take consequential damage for activating. So if they have one more health they get an extra activation. Take Maria Hill for instance. 2 Health, 2 THW, she can remove 4 thwart with 2 activations. If you have team training, she can take 3 consequential damage, and thwart for 6. More common though is you use your final hitpoint on your allies for a block. So realistically, with no team training, maria hill thwarts 2 and blocks, and with team training, she can thwart 4 then block. Hope that helps!
@@DaringLime got it! That makes perfect sense! (not sure why/how I missed it)
Have you thought about doing a series talking about the villains, and what cards each aspect might need to have success against them? Or a strategy on how to handle them? That would be awesome for new players. :)
I know after talking on reddit about how to use certain justice cards it really had a difference in being able to handle side schemes in RotRS campaign. Just needed like 3 or 4 cards and it made a world of difference (Jessica Jones, Skilled Investigator, etc.).
@@Glynixx ua-cam.com/video/N-KUP_tyMRY/v-deo.html
I made that a while back which I think fits into what you're talking about, and I can make more of them! Than k you for the ideas!
@@DaringLime keep up the great work! it is much appreciated! And that is exactly what I was looking for!
@@Glynixx that’s great! Would you like to see more videos like this? I was thinking about doing full deck builds that are more intricate than these ones I showed and going over them
Okay when a card is trait locked, like in your example the Ingenuity card only works for someone with the Genius trait right. Do I have to be on the side of the hero card that is labeled Genius in order to use Ingenuity or can I use it on the side where it's not labelled Genius but technically my character is still Genius traited on the alter ego side?
ATM I play a lot of the xmen cards and the mutant/xmen trait only stuff throws me off and I'm worried I may be playing things incorrectly.
Yes unfortunately you do. For instance you can’t play X-Gene in hero form which is why I prefer deft focus over it. And also ingenuity can’t be played in hero form because the genius trait is technically “out of play”.
@@DaringLime K, so I've been playing it correctly. Thanks.
@@LiveLongAndProsperHonestly no problem!
This might be a hot take, but in 4 man multi-player specifically, I think Mansion is a bit of a trap card. The villain does so much in 4p that burning a whole turn to get mansion out can have less impact than addressing the problems on the table, and ends up doing more harm than good.
@@fromundamanthat’s really interesting to hear! What scenarios do you like to play in 4 player?
@@DaringLime Depends on the group of 4 we have (About 8 people in our friend group play to varying degrees of sweatiness), but we usually lean towards expert scenarios, sometimes with customized scenarios (Extra encounter sets and in some cases homebrewed rules/scenarios). Been doing a lot of the Age of Apocalypse box recently, and all the Mojo scenarios were big hits with us too. Magneto, Mansion Attack and Mysterio, Sinister 6, Ultron and Hela hit the table a decent amount as well.
We usually run one of each aspect as well, both to make deckbuilding easier/have less overlap, and also because it seems to be more efficient when we all have specialized roles.
I often end up in the Justice role, which may also be affecting my opinion on Mansion, since 4p justice sometimes needs to hit the ground running.
The way I see it, you need at least 5 turns of mansion draws to refund the opportunity cost of playing Mansion + 4 cards to pay for it. In 4p I think a turn with no impact on board state to get a single card draw/turn can set you farther behind than playing an ally + event would have, or a cheaper setup card. I personally end up thinking cheaper card draw like Mission Leader, Skilled Investigator, Unflappable, Blood Rage, and Hall of Heroes end up more useful since they don't slow you down as much. Same deal with card draw that comes with a body like Maria Hill, Nick Fury, Ironheart, and Moon Girl.
@@fromundaman I like those scenarios a lot as well! One thing I was talking about on stream was how apocalypse 1 is super hard in solo and easy in multiplayer and that apocalypse 2 (en sabah nur) is super easy in solo and really hard in multiplayer.
I do prefer to get card draw from things like iron heart and Mariah hill. I understand what you’re saying about how long it takes mansion to pay off. I think most people agree with you. I personally value mansion more than that and think it pays off in 5 turns, or as soon as it allows me to play a card I otherwise wouldn’t have been able to, or until I draw a card that is better for the situation than my hand was previously.
I like hall of heroes a lot for multiplayer. There are so many minions in multiplayer that it pays off well. It’s a bit slow though, having to take out 3 minions and flip to alter ego before the card draw happens, but it is amazing for final pushes when I’m trying to do 40+ damage in one turn.
I like having roles for each aspect when playing 4 player. It make the decision making and deck building a lot more streamlined for each player. And personally I like protection a lot more in multiplayer than I do in solo.
Thanks for filling me in in your games! I like hearing from people how they play the game. And I envy how large your playgroup is! That’s amazing!
This is a great video! I definitely agree with the general guidelines. I think for card count (specifically 40 vs 45 vs 50 cards), the big considerations are:
1. How many cards do I draw per turn? If you are a standard hero drawing 5 cards per turn in hero and 6 in alter-ego, anything between 42 and 46 cards will add 1 turn to potentially finding a key card. This is especially true combined with number 2.
2. How many upgrades/supports do I have, or what does my second deck cycle look like? If you run an event-heavy deck, your second deck cycle might have 35 cards. If you run an upgrade-heavy deck (perfect defense protection or Ms. Marvel or SP//dr), your second deck cycle might have 30 cards. So adding an upgrade to a deck as card 41 impacts your future deck size less than adding an event.
3. Is there a clear worst card in the deck I could remove by adding this new card? I've had situations where I am sitting at 40 or 41 cards, and want to add a card because I think it will help, but then recognize that I can actually reduce an event or something to keep my card count low.
Also a note on "Power Of X" Double resources. You have to balance their chance to hit (give you a chance to gain an extra resource with the matching aspect card) with their chance to whiff. For example: If you have 10 aspect cards with 2+ cost, you will draw a "Power Of X" double and a 2+ cost card together on about 19% of hands (hit). On 7% of hands, you will draw only the power of X card without the aspect card (whiff). Finally, on 52% of hands, you will draw a 2+ cost aspect card without a "Power of X" card to go with it. Generally, this okay for the average game but you may whiff a too much for it to be worth it in a more challenging game. That being said, this is a starting framework/guide for deckbuilding, so telling people to generically add them is definitely the right call!
A good rule of thumb I've found experimentally is 1 Power Card for 8 aspect cards, and 2 Power Cards for 12 aspect cards. Love to hear your thoughts on that!
That's great feedback! I like what you said about thinking about cycle 2 of your deck. In Justice and Protection especially when you have longer games, you will likely go through 1-2 deck cycles, and then avengers mansion, helicarrier, upgrades, etc won't be there! Your 3 points are important and I'm glad you brought them up!
Regarding the Power Of cards, I don't have any rules for myself on when to add them. I do pay attention and make sure there are targets for them, but if I have only 4-5 targets I still feel good adding them, because having a dead wild resource card in my hand doesn't really feel like a dead card in a lot o cases. Many villains have resource requirements to get rid of attachments, obligations, etc, that the power of cards would still be good for even if you don't have an aspect card to use them on. Because of that use, and the high impact of when it does work and you can play an extra card on a turn that you wouldn't have been able to without the Power Of card, I almost always add them. That being said, I wouldn't play them if I only had 1-2 targets in my whole deck, but because I like to run at least 4 or so aspect allies, that almost never happens for me.
Regarding your rule, I think that makes sense! 1 for 8 and 2 for 12 or more. How many would you run if you had 9, 10, or 11? While I don't have a rule for myself, I think if I was to make one for myself, it would be to run both of them if I have at least 4 targets, but I generally prefer higher cost events and play allies so it doesn't come up much in my deck builds.
Thanks for the comment! I love talking about this stuff.
@@DaringLime For me, I'd run 1 for 8, 9, 10, or 11. Only run 2 at 12+.
In general I run less power of's because the double doesn't always get me an extra card play, so some hits don't actually change my turn. I think one other big consideration is how important your cards are that you are playing with a power of X. The Power in All of Us is super strong because it makes some very good cards (Nick/X, Mansion, X-Jet/Quincarrier, lots of good basic allies I want to play) much easier to get into play. Sometimes power of justice doesn't play a key card, just a solid thwart event (For Justice), which is less impactful so I want more chances for it to work for me to include it.
@@LeroyJJenkins I do really like power in all of us to get nick fury, avengers mansion and the like out. It makes a big difference if you can afford mansion first turn and still do something
Alright, why I think this video is good, and genuinely comes from good intentions, I will make a hopefully constructive criticism about it. But I know you"re a kind and helpful guy, and a very good player Daring Lime: No Doubt. So I hope noone take it at personnal attack or something, because I deeply love the player, and the work behind the video. I just want to "fight" the "hive mind", that can "hurt" the community.
Criticism below.
The notion of "auto include /staple", while "true" to some level, can also be detrimental to the creative part of the game. I think the Game Designers of Marvel Champions did an amazing job at scaling difficulty of the game : some villains are easy some other are tough, and there is standard or expert or even standard III. The Game Designers did also an amazing job at designing card compare to many other cards game I know, whether TCG and LCG.
This video give very good "guidelines", to help people who struggle with deck building, and that is great: really, and I mean it. But...
Helicarier, Avengers Mansion and Nick Fury are "easy problem solvers", but in no way, shape or form "auto include". what you need to put in your deck is "Drawing Solution", "Resource Generating solution", "Defense solution", "attack solution", and "threat solution". With that in mind, you can be creative, especially, if you are not playing Ronan Expert. For example, i have a Venom Deck which is quite efficient in expert, and very powerful in standard. And it uses the card pool synergisticly. Gamora and Guardian of the Galaxy team card is "my drawer". I have some cheap allies upgrade which I can Fish with "Lock and Load" event from Venom Kit. And I use enhanced card, which are less efficient than helicarrier in a vaccum, but help venom play his amazing defense event card, that give him tempo. And I run power in all of us to pay for all my allies, which are all basic, but neither nick fury nor professor X.
"Auto include" are a "myth". They are very good card that solve problem easily and steadily: no doubt. But Be creative people, and experiment. As long as you are not playing high challenging villain in tough difficulties, this game is forgiving and does not ask for over optimization. For God Sake, Hulk is playable with full card pool.
I come in Peace, and I hope people understand why that message is made for.
Ya I don’t take offense to that at all! You make a good point. I didn’t mean to imply that you couldn’t build a good deck without those if I did. I was gearing this video to people that are newer to deck building with small card pools, and adding nick fury the doubles, and avengers mansion and helicarrier is something that everyone will have and will be solid. There are also definitely more options than what I added on the last slide. Those were just some of my favorite cards that I think are also strong. To everyone reading this be creative! And deviate from the guide lines in this video when you feel comfortable with deck building. Thank you for the feedback!
Also I just built a deck that I will be playing on stream Saturday that doesn’t include nick fury 😏
@@DaringLime I totally understood what you are trying to achieve with that video, and I sincerely think it is a good one. You even highlight some tricky Allie like "black panther", or "Snowguard", which demonstrate how open minded you are. I'm just trying to point that the term "auto include", in itself can have some detrimental side effect, on the "brain" of the community.
Most youtube video are expert player who play expert mode. I also play expert only for long time now. But I think this is "our" responsibility to not "alienate people" by keeping in mind that many players play standard, and that the game is really open. I don't fight your video, which is very good, I fight the term "auto include" and its intricacies. It can lead to "toxic" mindset, and I saw that in my country, which is why I don't engage with youtube from my country. "You should play One or Another in any justice deck. or "This card is terrible, you should never play it". That kind of stuff. Maybe this is why I'm trying to be very cautious with term and concept, because I think english community is on a much better/healthier path.
@@alberttaco3668 Ah I understand more now! I will take that into account in my future videos and I can try to find a term that implies that it is a good thing to add but not inalienable. Thank you!
Thank you.
you're welcome
Dig the video.
Pity Dr Strange is impossible to find.
Ya it is a pity. He comes with really good protection cards as well. I picked him up early and I’m glad I did lol, hopefully him being out of print means a lot of people have him though! Glad you liked the video!
Saw Strange on Amazon recently.
@@mgranvee8549Not legit (or foreign).
If these videos are for new players, Dr Strange should be skipped.
@@mgranvee8549 if he isn’t 30 dollars or something it’s probably worth it
Multiple Man! 💚
One of my favorite allies! plural lol