I know, Kevin Spacey's delivery of that line was always so chilling. It's a shame that he's not as well known for his acting as much now, with good reason! 😤😠
I love Se7en and Kevin Spacey’s monologue at the end affirms for me that we are all capable of any level of evil as long as we can justify it to ourselves.
@Goddess of Intuition No offense but how do his life choices affect you? Why would he consider your feelings when he doesn't even consider his wife's? Like he's gonna go "oh I want to cheat but I won't because it will make my buddy feel bad and I don't want to disrespect him/her?"
Somerset and John Doe are like a little angel/devil in the shoulders of Miles and pushing him to act. I also noted that Somerset displays virtue in opposition to the sins that are being displayed, he rejects the coffee Miles offers him before the Gluttony Kill is revealed, he is Charitable with helping Miles with Research before Greed, he advices Miles to have Mercy instead of Wrath. Still the path of virtue hasnt given him happiness or hope.
Point is - He's a psychopath, we need to erase every single psychopaths in this world. Whether it is Carnage or Chaos, I don't care, be a Psychopath-HUNTER.
I don't think the movie is saying the world is a fine place at all--Morgan Freeman clearly says that he only agrees with the second part of Hemingway's quote. I think the movie is saying that, yeah, the world sucks and is full of despair and evil, but if we keep fighting against it, maybe one day it *will* become a fine place.
I don't think it's saying that it might be fine one day. I believe it is saying that regardless of the reality, we HAVE to keep fighting against it. In a world which will remain shit, we simply have no choice but to strive for a 'better' that will likely never come. It's that striving, that hope, or belief in better times ahead, that stops the world from being MORE shit, that stops total annihilation.
Point is - He's a psychopath, we need to erase every single psychopaths in this world. Whether it is Carnage or Chaos, I don't care, be a Psychopath-HUNTER.
@Travis_G. Yeah, well, those commies still lost, lol. Guess they gave their useless lives in vain for a cause that was moronic and immoral in the first place.
This is probably the movie I rewatch the most. It might sound strange, but I find a lot of hope and positivity in it. For me, the movie's secretly more about optimism than it lets on. The fact that it *doesn't* go for the 100% bleak gritty card, it becomes something more through that. There are little comic relief scenes, like the one in the apartment with the metro, or the *how's this for culture*, or "if I shave this nipple off will it count under workman's comp?" that give a little insight into how the human spirit can persist and find happy moments even in the darkest of times. To me, the movie's about fighting for what's right in a dark world, and still finding moments of hope. Too many movies these days go for the "gritty and dark" thing way too obviously. Se7en pulls it off because it's not trying too hard. It portrays it like it is, and isn't afraid to show levity and hope. What's darkness really without at least some hope and levity? That's where the power and resilience of the human spirit comes in. Love your videos!
@@KatieLHall-fy1hw Thanks you and others :). It is amazing indeed. Very passionate about stuff like this because Se7en much more closely is an antidote to nihilism than an affirmation, if you ask me. And we need more of those.
Thank you for sharing your own analysis and take, it was eloquently put and also resonated with me especially in regards to the power of resilience. To add to it as well; I don’t think its a coincidence that Morgan’s character (Somerset) started off as being a jaded nearly retired detective and by the end realizes that despite the depths of horrible acts that we as humans are capable of committing, sometimes with disturbing methodology and intent, we MUST remember that the hope a new day brings along with the promise of another opportunity to simply see another sunrise is reason enough to continue the fight. Through trauma and tragedy we can find solace in the sharing and distribution of that despair; indifference is often the cause of a blind eye turned.
A Round Orifice in Nothingness wow thanks for letting me know I only knew about his paranoia from my 6th-grade teacher when he read The Old Man and The Sea
Pinetina V oh most definitely the multiple decades worth of alcoholism probably didn't help He did seem to live an extreme life can't fault him for wanting to get everything out of that he could
Throughout the film you notice how similar Somerset and Doe are; they both strive to attain order, and they both see the chaos and apathy rampant in society. Ironically I think it’s this similarity that causes his change of outlook; he sees Doe as the natural outcome of his own outlook and decides that fighting is better than giving in to evil
I classify this thing as a horror-noir. It scares me worse than most straight horror movies and the end is just so profoundly disturbing. It's an amazing movie, but it's so emotionally draining that I only ever watch it around this time of year.
@@Gadget-Walkmen this is probably the prime (and greatest) example of the genre if it were a thing, although there’s debate whether it’s more psychological thriller then horror despite the horrifying things seen in the film. The cinematography and design is a throwback to the old noir films of the 40’s and it presents morally ambiguous characters such as Somerset with the shadows around the faces. I’ve grown to actually appreciate it more seeing it four times now.
The killer was going to win in any scenario, whether he got killed or not. If he had been arrested, the trial would have become a circus and he would have been declared a folk hero, and the ending would have feel just as wrong, no matter how soothing Freeman's voice is.
I dont actually think they had any evidence of his killings, since there was no trails. He would most likely be considered insane and declared innocent
Point is - He's a psychopath, we need to erase every single psychopaths in this world. Whether it is Carnage or Chaos, I don't care, be a Psychopath-HUNTER.
I don't see what people weren't "ready" for. It wasn't a bad movie but it wasn't particularly good, either. I feel complete and utter apathy towards Jennifer's Body.
I was surprised by the ending but I never wished for Milles to kill John. I wished him a life in prison where he could have witnessed that all his actions had no impact whatsoever on any other than the 2 cops. "Don't do it. Don't let him win."
@A Round Orifice in Nothingness In the video they claim that the viewer was subconsciously rooting for Milles to kill him. I didn't agree with them on that point, thus my comment
@@Schnukii13 I remember shouting at the screen when Mills was going to kill him not to do it I was that invested in the horrifying ending and was just feeling fucked up when Bowie’s “The Hearts Filthy Lesson” started playing with the credits long after the act. Fucking great movie.
Point is - He's a psychopath, we need to erase every single psychopaths in this world. Whether it is Carnage or Chaos, I don't care, be a Psychopath-HUNTER.
Great Take. It's also worth noting that Summerset's world view is shaped by his past. So even though John Doe mirrors his beliefs in certain ways, it is his partner Mills' opposite values that I think have the more profound effect on him (Or at least stir him to change at the end)
Point is - He's a psychopath, we need to erase every single psychopaths in this world. Whether it is Carnage or Chaos, I don't care, be a Psychopath-HUNTER.
This was such a good one! You guys are fantastic at breaking down the nuances of so so many great topics, and describing these interesting theory’s in such an eloquent way. It’s probably a long shot, but since it was mentioned in this video, I would not only love, but be grateful for your take on the themes and overall story of The Divine Comedy. It’s not exactly an easy read, but I’ve always been so fascinated by it.
Just a note on the ending...the cops don't say Mills will be protected for "committing murder while wearing a badge"...they say "We will take care of him" because he committed the murder while not sane due to his grief. Pretty big difference.
My late father was a police officer. When we watched this movie, I asked him what would happen to Pitt’s character. He said “the nut house.” Hmmm…maybe Se7en segues into 12 Monkeys?? 🤣🤣
I haven't even watched the video yet, but with my country at war right now, the question made me cry. With each day it's getting harder and harder to give a positive answer to that question.
I went to the theatre to see this movie with my best friend when it first came out in 1995, and 28 years later, the ending still haunts me but at the same time, I came to realize that this was indeed a story that is based in fact on what the justice system contends with when police, detectives, FBI agents, lawyers, and judges have to contend with when thoroughly studying the criminal mind. Most drama and criminal shows that have been created were based on this movie alone, it awakened in me to becoming a true crime enthusiast, because I am forever wondering the elusive "why". In constructing my own analysis of this movie and all of its intricate characters, I found that detective Somerset may have been jaded and tired but he spoke with wisdom when trying to explain to his partner, that dismissing a criminal's actions and labeling them as "crazy" or "insane" was a mistake. Mills was too self-centered on becoming the "hero" of this story and not really listening to the wisdom of a more older veteran of the job.
Right from the get go, Mills didn't discover her head in a box... That was Sommerset. Mills never looked in the box, he simply reacted to information received.
well I mean, he also reacted to how Somerset, the only one who saw the box, run towards him with extreme caution and concern for YOU, you’d bet that whatever is inside the box is somehow related to you
It may be a weird example but jay from NINJAGO he used to be a comic relief character, who didn’t get taken seriously until the sixth season. He got taken seriously because they showed how he could believe in himself and stop forcing the situation to make him seem funny.
I don’t think the killing of John Doe was in cold blood. This expression alludes to the notion that blood is the seat of emotion and is hot in passion and cold in calm. The term therefore means not “in the heat of passion,” but “in a calculated, deliberate manner.”
Point is - He's a psychopath, we need to erase every single psychopaths in this world. Whether it is Carnage or Chaos, I don't care, be a Psychopath-HUNTER.
What about the teenager who wasn’t even born yet when this came out and is now seeing it for the first time? Do they not deserve to be surprised by the film’s reveals, to experience it with a clear mind like those who were there when it came out?
@@MisBabbles I was referring more to the idea of spoiler term limits in general, not necessarily in this specific situation. But, yeah there’s no reason to come to vids like this and get mad about spoilers. I’ve personally had several great movies spoiled for me because the person I was talking to was like, “but it came out decades ago!” True. But, I wasn’t even born so I’m only going to see it now at “x” age. People have different opinions which is fine but I personally treasure the first-time experience with a movie because once that’s gone, no matter how many times you watch it, you can never get that back.
@@XXavierTaylor fair enough, although when something is part of the cultural consciousness and generally accepted as known we tend to make reference to it. I had a 13 year old I coached yell at me in 2002 for saying, "Luke, I am your father," because it spoiled Empire for her. Now, sure, she wasn't born at it's release, but neither was I (I was 19 at the time). I just don't think you can reasonably expect people to edit every cultural reference with an age verification check first. If it's that important, watch it. It's not like these are titles that are hard to access. Se7en is on Netflix. Star Wars can be absorbed through oxygen at this point...
Excellent analysis! One of your best videos yet. I'd never really considered how tied in our ideas of good and evil are with that of order and chaos. The fact that we feel relieved when a crime story is concluded with the catching of the criminal makes sense in that regard. Whereas, if the story doesn't conclude this way, we feel uneasy because disorder has prevailed. Of course, just because a society is ordered does not automatically make it good.
and it said that there are still 2 missing bodies, I was expecting morgan and brad to be those bodies but it was brad’s wife and the baby inside.... what a movie
Until the first shoot out with the serial killer I honestly thought it could've been Somerset due to a couple of reasons such as him getting irritated when Miles says the killer is insane, being the first one to point out the connection between Dante's Inferno, doing under the table actions, etc. I like Somerset being a generally good person, but it would've made for a crazier twist given he was always there watching and with his interactions with Miles and his wife.
One of the themes Seven debates is nihilism. The use of structure, characters and symbolism is used to share the movie’s moral judgement on the way in which one should traverse through life. We see through David Mills the young and ambitious drive to help the world despite its apparent evil (this can be seen through him modelling Somerset by reading the books necessary to better understand the case). Contrastingly, Somerset who is in the latter part of his career is quitting his job to move elsewhere. Somerset tells himself that he just wants a change of life, however David (who can be seen as a younger version of himself) exposes him to the reality that he has lost a mentality that fights for the good of the world rather than accepting the notion the crime is inevitable and will never stop. David never fails to tell Somerset the objective truth regardless of its consequences (which explains why at first Somerset does not want to be associated with Pitt as he leaves Somerset vunerable to exposure. However, Somerset later takes a liking to Pitt and learns from his harsh truths). This can be consolidated through the symbol of the clock and the ever present theme of time. In the beginning of the movie, whilst Somerset is still wanting to retire the clock operates as a symbol of his time left as an inspector and the slow rise in volume parallels its increasing urgency. Later on in the movie (after David exposes Somerset), Somerset dramatically throws the clock symbolising the protagonist taking back the responsibility and burden of helping the world around him and consequently himself. This behaviour can also be seen in David in the early stages of the movie with his (as previously mentioned) harsh but truthful talks. Despite the consequences it could bring, David takes the burden to help those around him and say it like it is. The structure leads to the climatic ending where both characters in entirely contrasting points of morality are faced with a choice. Somerset (who chooses correctly) finds the head of David’s wife in a box and decides to attempt to calm David down in an effort to help him. Conversely, after a dramatic sequence of shots, it is made personal with David, as he finds out his wife has been one of the victims of the killer. David subsequently struggles with the ultimate choice of whether to choose to fight for the good in the world, or join the evil and kill John Doe (fulfilling the seventh deadly sin: wrath). David ultimately shoots the John, and thus conforms to the nihilism that is the physical embodiment of the killer. The movie shows nihilism in the face of an evil world to be cowardly and out right wrong, as David ends up arrested, and likewise the killer dead. Lastly, Somerset addresses a profound quote which says “the world is a fine place and worth fighting for” Somerset disagrees with the first part and agrees with the latter. Somerset who is shown to be reserved, gets to like David as it can only be assumed that David resembles Somerset’s former self. He sees the ambition and strive to help the world which allows him to reconnect with that morality. The plot therefore shows that the evils of the world will get you down, but only you can choose the painful but fruitful task to get back up, and to keep fighting for the good. This is shown to be a very serious task that must be approached with the upmost caution. Fighting the devil is no easy task and it can irreversibly damage the spirit (as we see with David). Furthermore, the references to literature such as Paradise lost and Chaucer’s Canterbury tales only consolidate these arguments. Also the symbolism of the killer’s room (a cross but in red light - the colour of the devil); all the Christmas trees hanging down from the ceiling in John’s room (the imagery of the birth of Christ which is falling (representing hell)). These all represent the killer’s mindset of damnation that subsequently leads to his death. Despite John being well read and smart, it does not mean he cannot cause his own damnation through nihilism. Thus, take this as a warning to keep your own values in check. Whatever happens you must make the decision to fight for good, and not to fall victim to evil.
It was curious that you mentioned the Sherlock Holmes stories as the common inspiration for the detective fiction genre and the restoration of order, because while several stories featuring the brilliant detective did get a satisfactory ending, there were also some cases where Holmes was a little too late or the antagonist of the story won out. There were cases with a touch of tragedy, like The dancing men or even The final problem which was a curiously fitting ending for the detective who sought to bring down an empire built on crime. The author tried to remind the reader several times that though the truth may be revealed, gradually or through concentrated effort - the detective or the side of order does not always win. The consequences of situations may sometimes be the very opposite of the desired outcome or may be even be left in ambiguity. Agatha Christie also voiced several interesting philosophies regarding morality, punishment and consequences in cases like Five Little Pigs and The Unexpected Guest - the truth is revealed and affords some satisfaction but the outcome is not always good. When one considers these early inspirations for the mystery, whodunit genre of movies, endings like the one in this movie make a little more sense.
Great thoughtful comment. Five Little Pigs is one of my favorites of Christie’s. I’d say Crooked House is another good example, and I’m sure there are others. Love her work!
Point is - He's a psychopath, we need to erase every single psychopaths in this world. Whether it is Carnage or Chaos, I don't care, be a Psychopath-HUNTER.
In his 1995 book, The Death of Satan: How Americans Have Lost the Sense of Evil, Andrew Delbanco compares many popular and literary cultural tropes to Augustine's theology (the best and the worst of it) and states that evil is the inability to see evil in oneself, always projecting it onto another. Augustine himself realized this and yet was a hateful antisemite. I do not remember whether Seven was mentioned in the book, but John Doe's conviction of his own righteousness (albeit that he admits to envy being his deadly sin), mirrored by Detective Mills's overall optimism regarding everyone who conforms to his worldview could be one description of what the "evil" at the heart of the film's narrative is? This would also defeat the very dichotomy of order and chaos, since "order" is not necessarily any better in terms of ethical substance than is chaos. There is a horrible logic to John Doe's actions, but they are just that: logical.
I was extremely young when I saw this movie and I remember begging Pitt's character to not shoot Spacey's character. I always wanted to be an FBI agent when I was a kid and I remember feeling he would dishonor everything the badge stood for if he killed him. Funny how now we are so apathtic to police killing people to the extent we've allowed it to become politicized.
@@iNtando1 I mean...Sex and the City, HIMYM, New Girl, need I go on? The amount of time they waste analysing worthless American TV cr*p is beyond annoying. Of course, they get more views on them, so hey.
@@cynicalcenobia I didn't ask you WHICH other films weren't worthy of a take (I already had a feeling that it would be the more female centered, romantic or "chick flick" types of films and movies). My question is WHAT ABOUT these shows make them less worthy of a take, to you?
The thing that undermines everything Doe says - about punishing the guilty, etc - is his killing of Tracy (and her unborn child). Neither was guilty of any sin. Even if Doe thought his other five victims were worthless sinners, he could not use that excuse with Tracy.
Yes! And Leland Orser is fantastic in the scene where he explains what happened - he is horrified at his actions and you feel it deep in your soul through the acting.
Excellent presentation. I usually avoid gruesome films like this, but the issues raised in your presentation pretty much guarantees that I will view it even if it produces bad dreams. Well done.
"Through me you pass into eternal pain: Through me among the people lost for aye. Justice the founder of my fabric moved: To rear me was the task of power divine, Supremest wisdom, and primeval love. Before me things create were none, save things Eternal, and eternal I shall endure. All hope abandon, ye who enter here." Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy
After being in that place where you are to abandon all hope I realized that that doesn’t have to hold true. And I don’t recommend going there. It’s infinitely worse than you could ever imagine.
Okay, I'm not trying to sound pretentious, but after a certain point in the movie (when John was making a deal for the last two murders), I expected it to be about David's wife Tracy and the baby. You know, the last two sins were about envy and wrath, but damn, I wasn't expecting wrath to be David killing John.
I remember this came out, I believe Usual Suspects was out at that time, and Showgirls premiered. I wanted to see this movie more than anything, I was 17 and my cousin was 18 and he was dead set on seeing Showgirls. He had the car, he had volunteered to pay for me, I tried to convince him to see this but nope, we went to go see flipping Showgirls. I wasted two hours of my life on that terrible movie and never got to see Seven in the theaters (I was poor with no car so wasn't like I had many chances to see a movie). Loved Seven, it was great, love the bleak ending because sometimes we need bleak endings, only regret is I never had a chance to see this in the theaters because I feel like the atmosphere would have heightened the viewing experience. Arrggh, Showgirls, never went to see a movie with him again.
@@bleeneo101 imagine being me, missing two incredible movies in Usual Suspects and Seven just to see Jessie, my least favorite character from Saved By the Bell, naked for a few minutes. I'll be bitter forever.
It’s a chaotic places with its own chaotic rules. Either adapt or die. It’s not that hard to understand. About the movie and Fincher: the best. Nothing to add.-
Thank you so much for this video!! This is one of my all time favourite movies, and I’m so pleased with the way you described this movie. I always learn so much from these videos, it’s not a simple movie review, you both go over so many topics that I find so interesting. 🖤
"There has to be an invisible sun It gives its heat to everyone There has to be an invisible sun That gives us hope when the whole day's done " Invisible sun, The Police, Ghost in the Machine (1981)
Although Somerset's final VO does seem like a studio mandate, I cannot tell you how badly I needed to hear those words the first time I saw this film. At the time, there just hadn't been anything like it, it was an absolute sucker punch of despair. It seemed like a gentle hand on the shoulder as it asked us to look at a terrible world and find some source of condolence. Otherwise, it would be no different from John Doe.
From Hemingway's novel For Whom the Bell Tolls, the protagonist thinks to himself as he nears death, "the world is a fine place and worth fighting for and I hate very much to leave it." Even in that context, it reads more optimistically than in the dark ending of Seven.
Does anyone find the idea of se7en really similar to the dark knight? Maybe Christopher Nolan is paying tribute to this movie In the dark knight Batman, Joker and Harvey Dent each represented Somerset, John Doc and mill. Their ideas of morals and settings are quite similar in this 2 movies, for example Batman don't kill, Somerset only took his gun out 3 times, they both seen horrible shit but still fight crimes for this city. Joker believes in chaos and he wanted to show the world their morals, their code, it's a bad joke, John Doc sees the sins of humanity and wanted to prove people he is right. Harvey turns into 2 face after his girlfriend Rachel was killed by joker, Mill went all john wick after the head of his wife is found, they both believed in good of humanity and believes they could bring good in the city again. In the dark knight batman uses different technologies like hacking into everyone's phones in Gotham in order to bring down joker, in se&en Mills bribed the old women and kicked open Johns door without a warren. These actions rise the question of moral whether breaking rules and lying to protect or bring justice correct or wrong. the 2 movies has a lot in common and both is a movie worth watching btw Morgan Freeman is in both movies lol
Amazing analysis girls, my favourite scene in this movie is where John Doe apprehended Mills during the chase and by my opinion is a masterpiece. I also so a analysis video who pointed out the city is also character, because the atmosphere and tone are so vivid and striking in this movie.
I find it interesting how the entirety of the move took place in one week. On "seven" days, I think the movie almost is giving us a choice and that choice is when we are confronted with trials, grief, loss, murder, theft and abuse. Do we rise above it while hurting inside and look for positivity or do we let it consume us into insanity?? That's what John Doe did and seemingly Ellis at the end. And, if a person who is morally wrong does something, is it the system that man has created, that makes a serial killer or is it themselves or the fact that they are inferior to the people who aren't morally wrong even if the world or system beat them down so much, they ended wanting to actually harm another human. So, if there are lots of "John Does" in the world, what's the world's place in creating them. And, are we all just as bad as each other because if our world has brought someone to a place of insanity, does that mean that we are all a "John Doe". As long as their is evil, the cycle will keep repeating itself week after week because we aren't paying attention to the events in people lives that lead them down a dark path so after every "seven" days, evil continues, the world gets worse and there is no hope because on every face, there is a sin that has hurt someone else. I find it interesting that the film sort of plays into the days of the week almost like a cycle. This cycle is sin, the cycle of submission into hurting other people out of survival of your own feelings. That is the message of Se7en, do we rise above evil or do we submit to it, become insane and eventually let our Sins worsen until we become evil, the next cog that continues the cycle over the next "Se7en" days.
Seems to me John Doe, someone attempting to find purpose in a chaotic world, had religion to fall back on. It provides a safety net. Purpose, meaning, duty. Like how the detectives were trying to make sense of why Doe does what he does, Doe was doing the same; filling a void and trying to find meaning in a world that seems purposeless. In a way Doe looked into the Abyss and blinked. Someone hiding behind a venue of so called righteousness, when in actuality they were just scared of it all. Because his actions ultimately where meaningless in effecting the larger world that surrounds them. Cause even after the ending, sure his actions will have an effect to the people involved in his case, but to the billions of others outside of that they will have never heard of him, and continue on with their lives as world keeps on spinning. He'll just be another blip in existence that screamed to say they were significant before being ultimately forgotten. A pity then that they gave in before they ever had the chance to add something positive to a weary world. I know this take sounds out of focus, but I'm just going off the top of my head before getting on with my life.
Yes. He caught a glimpse of the apathy of the world, and instead of combatting it with empathy, he gave in and became the very thing he despises by doing so called retribution. Ultimately, remembered or not, I view John Doe as striving to be a mirror of society's worst by hitting them with a sledgehammer, and not anymore with a tap on the shoulder.
Dude, the ending is spoiled for you man, the entire essence of what makes the climax, hence the movie so great is revealed.Might be an underwhelming experience. If you do watch it after this, let me know how was it for you.
I'd like to be friends with the people who took a moment of pause to comment and watch this video. I appreciate you all for loving this film the same way as I do. I can't express my joy enough to know I'm not the only one who believes in the message & philosophy of this film.
this is probably a stupid question and im probably just playing into the same mentality of trying to compartmentalize everything I see - but if serial killers aren't evil and they aren't crazy, then what are they? how do we explain them without justifying them but also not dehumanizing them?
Kevin Spacey is a horrible, despicable, disgusting, vile, horrendous person... but he is one HELL of an actor! Se7en was SO good. I remember when he said, "She begged for her life, and the life of the baby inside of her." I was sooooo shocked! OH MAN!!!! Great film!
I was thinking more that the movie was saying that you have to live the life of a cynic to live in this world, because this world can produce the most extreme horrors that are unfathomed but undeniably able to exist.
So most analyses and a lot of commenters seem to think that Mills will somehow get off the hook, and I think this desire for some leniency is testament to the actual horror of the dilemman. However in the original script which has a more elaborate ending sequence it says that Mills will be arraigned, so legal procedure is up and running, partly also for that fact that in the script he also injures Somerset. I have included the last part of the script here from the moment it begins to slightly deviate from the film version. It is one of a bunch of endings that were proposed in the struggle between the studio on one side and Fincher, Pitt and Freeman on the other. I list them here for references, some are REALLY bad: 1. The traditional action climax: A race to save Tracy 2. The marginally happy ending: Somerset shoots Doe go spare Mills from further pain. 3. The even bleaker ending: Mills shoots Doe and wounds Somerset 4. The WTF ending: A fiery church shootout in which Mills is basically Jesus (and dies). 5. The abrupt ending: Cut to black after Mills shoots Doe 6. The cop-out ending: Mills's dog is in the box (the studio beginning to really lose it here with this suggestion). In the one included here you’ll see some references to a house being repaired a toolbelt and some rose wall paper - this is because the original beginning of the movie has Somerset visiting a house in the countryside that he plans to restore when he retires. Which is his immediate goal, so a lot of that stuff is thematic callbacks to the intro. Anyway - here goes: ******* Mills holds the gun at Doe's head, undecided, furious. Somerset edges towards them. MILLS (looks to Somerset) Stop it! You stay away! Somerset moves the switchblade so he's holding it by the blade, ready to throw, keeping it hidden. SOMERSET I can't let you do this! Mills kicks Doe and throws him backwards on the ground. The HELICOPTER is CLOSER. Mills stands over Doe and points the gun. JOHN DOE She begged for her life, and for the life of your baby inside her. Mills' face fills with confusion -- then a wave of horror. Doe's eyes register shock. JOHN DOE You didn't know. SOMERSET NO! Somerset brings his hand out to throw the blade, but Mills reacts to the movement, turns on Somerset and fires -- BLAM! Somerset flies backwards in the air, bullet exploding into his shoulder, just above the bullet-proof vest's opening. Somerset hits the ground, crying out, bloody, writhing. Mills turns the gun on John Doe. INT. POLICE HELICOPTER -- EARLY EVENING The chopper is over the marshland. California is leaning out with his rifle. He cringes from the sounds as FROM HIS HEADSET is HEARD: BLAM -- BLAM -- BLAM -- BLAM -- BLAM. INSERT -- TITLE CARD TWO WEEKS LATER INT. HOSPITAL ROOM -- DAY Somerset sits in a wheelchair. He is dressed in a hospital gown. His upper chest and shoulder are wrapped in bandages. He stares out the window at the city's buildings. CAPTAIN (o.s) Hey there, Somerset. Somerset turns to see the captain. Somerset looks weak, older. SOMERSET Hello. The captain walks in, carrying something behind his back. CAPTAIN How you feeling? SOMERSET I can breathe without pain now, so I guess I feel great. Somerset musters a lame smile. The captain sits on the bed. CAPTAIN The guys at the precinct heard you're getting out today. Anyway, we all chipped in... The captain takes a big tool belt full of tools from behind his back. He hands it over. Somerset looks at it and lays it on his lap. He smiles for real. SOMERSET Thank you. Tell them, thank you. CAPTAIN We figure you need all the tools you can get to fix up that piece of shit you call a house. SOMERSET Yeah, that's true. Somerset continues examining the tools. CAPTAIN They're hoping you stop and say goodbye before you go, but I told them not to expect it. SOMERSET (not looking up) It would be too hard. The captain stands. CAPTAIN I have to get going, but... there is one more thing. Somerset looks up. The captain takes a letter from his pocket. CAPTAIN I don't know if you're going to want it. It was down front. It's from Mills. Somerset pauses, then puts out his hand to take it. CAPTAIN He's being arraigned tomorrow. SOMERSET I read about it in the paper. Somerset just looks at the letter. CAPTAIN I guess... decide for yourself. I don't know what it says. I'm going to go. SOMERSET I'll see you. The captain nods and walks into the hall. Somerset wheels back to the window. He looks at the letter. Pause. He opens it. Unfolds the paper inside. The note reads: YOU WERE RIGHT. YOU WERE RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING. Somerset closes the note, upset. INT. HOSPITAL, MAIN NURSES' STATION -- DAY Somerset is in street clothes. He signs a form at the busy front desk. A NURSE takes the form and hands Somerset a large manila envelope. NURSE There you go, Mister Somerset. "Mister" causes Somerset to look strangely at the nurse. NURSE Yes? SOMERSET Nothing. EXT. HOSPITAL -- DAY Somerset comes down the stairs, slowly, tired. He holds the manila envelope and a small suitcase. The streets are busy with pedestrians and traffic. He walks down the sidewalk. He puts down the suitcase and opens the manila envelope to look inside. He sorts through the contents, takes out his keys and puts them in his pocket. He reaches in the envelope again, and takes out the square of wallpaper with the pale, red rose on it. There is some dried blood on the paper. Somerset lays the envelope on the ground beside the suitcase. He looks at the rose, tries to scratch off the blood. He looks up, squinting from the sun, at the city bustling around him. At the tight canyon formed by the buildings. At the cars, buses and taxis racing in the streets. At a man, talking to himself, who lies on the sidewalk, surrounded by garbage. At the people, miserable people, walking past him. Somerset takes out the note from Mills: YOU WERE RIGHT. YOU WERE RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING. A father passes by, holding his young son's hand. Somerset turns to watch them pass. The father reaches to pick the son up and carry him in his arms. The boy laughs and holds tight. The father hugs his son to him, kisses him on the cheek. The boy returns the kiss with great affection. Somerset watches them disappear in the mass of humanity. He looks back at the two papers in his hands. He lets out a sigh. SOMERSET (to himself) Oh... man... He sighs again, drained. He puts the pale paper rose inside the note from Mills. He folds them together. He tears them both up, into little pieces. EXT. PRECINCT HOUSE -- DAY Cars roll by in the street. Cops come and go. Somerset walks up the stairs, into the precinct house. The doors shut behind him. END
The way he yells "deteectiiiiive!!!" always gets under my skin like a damn snake...
I know, Kevin Spacey's delivery of that line was always so chilling. It's a shame that he's not as well known for his acting as much now, with good reason! 😤😠
Agreed, Libby. Chilling
Yeah line is epic, like the line - your soul is required in hell. Sometimes justice comes from somewhere you least expect it.
You too?!
It's too damn scary, how he says it.
I love Se7en and Kevin Spacey’s monologue at the end affirms for me that we are all capable of any level of evil as long as we can justify it to ourselves.
Just like with Kevin Spacey himself
i love it when he is arrested for his sexual crimes
oh wait
he wasnt
basically.
@Goddess of Intuition No offense but how do his life choices affect you? Why would he consider your feelings when he doesn't even consider his wife's? Like he's gonna go "oh I want to cheat but I won't because it will make my buddy feel bad and I don't want to disrespect him/her?"
Well, it is easy to convince ourselves that we are always right. It is a vicious cycle and I get bitten more than I get to bite others.
I remember seeing this the night it premiered. I don't think a single person in the theater expected that ending.
Likewise, but that's the sign of an unforgettable story: It keeps you on your toes, and is often unpredictable! 🥰
Man that must have been an experience
Kil Chil Yeah it was. My exwife and I saw it at a totally sold out theater. Afterward while leaving the whole audience was quite the a graveyard.
I watched it in the theater too. Never left a theater that was so quiet. Could have heard a rat passing on cotton...
@A Round Orifice in Nothingness oh we knew the twist was coming...just not that. 😂 😂
Somerset and John Doe are like a little angel/devil in the shoulders of Miles and pushing him to act. I also noted that Somerset displays virtue in opposition to the sins that are being displayed, he rejects the coffee Miles offers him before the Gluttony Kill is revealed, he is Charitable with helping Miles with Research before Greed, he advices Miles to have Mercy instead of Wrath. Still the path of virtue hasnt given him happiness or hope.
Interesting! And sad. But, I guess we should be pursuing a virtuous life for its own sake, not because we seek to be rewarded, right?
Point is - He's a psychopath, we need to erase every single psychopaths in this world.
Whether it is Carnage or Chaos, I don't care, be a Psychopath-HUNTER.
@Gardahadi amazing find thanks for this
my comment is 3 years late but your comment made me realize that Mills is Dante, Somerset is Virgil, and John Doe is the Devil in this scenario...
@@meganhartmann180 If doing the right thing is its own reward, then he is being rewarded, isn't he?
The young couple's loving, "perfect couple" scene at the beginning basically guarantees that one of them is doomed to die.
It's strange every time in movies like these when I see couples being happy, I know they(or one of them) is gonna die.
L Chapman in hindsight yes.
They both died 😞
@@donaldwilliams730How Mill died?
@@Colbert85He lost everything, he's already dead inside at the end of the movie. Also people speculate that he'll commit suic1d3...
I don't think the movie is saying the world is a fine place at all--Morgan Freeman clearly says that he only agrees with the second part of Hemingway's quote. I think the movie is saying that, yeah, the world sucks and is full of despair and evil, but if we keep fighting against it, maybe one day it *will* become a fine place.
I don't think it's saying that it might be fine one day. I believe it is saying that regardless of the reality, we HAVE to keep fighting against it. In a world which will remain shit, we simply have no choice but to strive for a 'better' that will likely never come. It's that striving, that hope, or belief in better times ahead, that stops the world from being MORE shit, that stops total annihilation.
@saganist that's a fine take.
Stoicism rocks
@@Smarterthanyew some batman shit
Point is - He's a psychopath, we need to erase every single psychopaths in this world.
Whether it is Carnage or Chaos, I don't care, be a Psychopath-HUNTER.
"The world is a fine place and worth fighting for." What's eerie about this quote is that Ernest Hemingway committed suicide.
also it's from For Whom the Bells Toll, where the protagonist dies.
Even though he wasn't strong enough to fight, he wanted us to be better than him, thus he encouraged us to fight
I honestly thought of this and assumed that Freeman stating the quote was to end the film with the sarcastic cynicism that lead his character
@@mkn.567 iirc, he was somewhat happy to have fought against the fascists (in the Spanish civil war) and given his life for that struggle.
@Travis_G. Yeah, well, those commies still lost, lol. Guess they gave their useless lives in vain for a cause that was moronic and immoral in the first place.
This and several other 80’s and early 90’s films signaled a return to noir, prompting the term neo noir. PLEASE cover the topic of neo noir cinema.
They did! With "The Dark Knight". It's awesome! Check it out!
@@camilatz4956 and the saw series.
Neo-Noir had been around before the 80s, Chinatown came out in 74.
The Dark Knight was the master of Neo-Noir.
@@28maitreyagupta21 I would argue that Seven is more to that than ever as Dark knight is more superhero.
I don't think Hollywood could even pull a villain reveal like Seven's in the social media era.
True, real life Villains are so easily uncovered when boomers took over social media
@Ben Wasserman
You're probably right on that.
I know this is a year late, but the Batman did their villain pretty well
lmao y'all see one good movie and think its instantly different. I've watched plenty of villains like john doe. would you like me to elaborate in them
@@ashbalakhan9987 🤓
This is probably the movie I rewatch the most. It might sound strange, but I find a lot of hope and positivity in it.
For me, the movie's secretly more about optimism than it lets on.
The fact that it *doesn't* go for the 100% bleak gritty card, it becomes something more through that.
There are little comic relief scenes, like the one in the apartment with the metro, or the *how's this for culture*, or "if I shave this nipple off will it count under workman's comp?" that give a little insight into how the human spirit can persist and find happy moments even in the darkest of times. To me, the movie's about fighting for what's right in a dark world, and still finding moments of hope.
Too many movies these days go for the "gritty and dark" thing way too obviously.
Se7en pulls it off because it's not trying too hard. It portrays it like it is, and isn't afraid to show levity and hope. What's darkness really without at least some hope and levity? That's where the power and resilience of the human spirit comes in.
Love your videos!
Beautifully explained.
Loved your comment and perspective
I love your view, and I agree! There is a lot of power in the human spirit, and it’s amazing. Keep doing what you’re doing!
@@KatieLHall-fy1hw Thanks you and others :). It is amazing indeed. Very passionate about stuff like this because Se7en much more closely is an antidote to nihilism than an affirmation, if you ask me. And we need more of those.
Thank you for sharing your own analysis and take, it was eloquently put and also resonated with me especially in regards to the power of resilience. To add to it as well; I don’t think its a coincidence that Morgan’s character (Somerset) started off as being a jaded nearly retired detective and by the end realizes that despite the depths of horrible acts that we as humans are capable of committing, sometimes with disturbing methodology and intent, we MUST remember that the hope a new day brings along with the promise of another opportunity to simply see another sunrise is reason enough to continue the fight. Through trauma and tragedy we can find solace in the sharing and distribution of that despair; indifference is often the cause of a blind eye turned.
That moment you compare Phoebe from Friends to Jeffrey Dahmer.
why?
Lol
What
Normal is an illusion. What is normal to the spider is chaos to the fly.
Yes, Addams Family shout out, how Terrific! 🖤🕸️🕷️
I didn't love how they portray chaos. Order can be evil and chaos could be beauty.
@@alexandrebeaudry8377 True that. I can see where you are coming from.
I love this quote!
More like normal is subjective
No mention of the fact that Hemingway, whose quotation is used as a note of hope about the world, actually committed suicide?
He was paranoid supposedly he saw things that were not there
A Round Orifice in Nothingness wow thanks for letting me know I only knew about his paranoia from my 6th-grade teacher when he read The Old Man and The Sea
He was profoundly sick, he started to have allucinations
Pinetina V oh most definitely the multiple decades worth of alcoholism probably didn't help
He did seem to live an extreme life can't fault him for wanting to get everything out of that he could
Perhaps he was projecting outwards the hope he wanted to find inside.
This scene makes me cry every single time. Brad Pitt did a phenomenal job in this movie.
I legit just watched this for the first time yesterday and thought "wow, I guess the world's been like this for a minute".
Throughout the film you notice how similar Somerset and Doe are; they both strive to attain order, and they both see the chaos and apathy rampant in society. Ironically I think it’s this similarity that causes his change of outlook; he sees Doe as the natural outcome of his own outlook and decides that fighting is better than giving in to evil
“Sane in an insane world”
The life of a Trump supporter
Mad max
@@rickywilcoxson6933 insane in an insane world*
I classify this thing as a horror-noir. It scares me worse than most straight horror movies and the end is just so profoundly disturbing. It's an amazing movie, but it's so emotionally draining that I only ever watch it around this time of year.
I too deem these kinds of movies more horrifying than generic horror movies.. but it is also a philosophical one, and for that, I love it.
""horror-noir" has a really nice ring to it. Should be a genre.
@@Gadget-Walkmen this is probably the prime (and greatest) example of the genre if it were a thing, although there’s debate whether it’s more psychological thriller then horror despite the horrifying things seen in the film.
The cinematography and design is a throwback to the old noir films of the 40’s and it presents morally ambiguous characters such as Somerset with the shadows around the faces. I’ve grown to actually appreciate it more seeing it four times now.
Yes. This could actually happen. Very disturbing.
"It was a crime of passion."
"Yeah... just look at all the passion on that wall."
The killer was going to win in any scenario, whether he got killed or not. If he had been arrested, the trial would have become a circus and he would have been declared a folk hero, and the ending would have feel just as wrong, no matter how soothing Freeman's voice is.
I dont actually think they had any evidence of his killings, since there was no trails. He would most likely be considered insane and declared innocent
@@Insanity-vv9nn Like he said, the killer was going to win in any scenario. Scary, huh?
@@LEON-Cyborg pretty much yeah
Point is - He's a psychopath, we need to erase every single psychopaths in this world.
Whether it is Carnage or Chaos, I don't care, be a Psychopath-HUNTER.
@@pi.log10 not all psychopaths become killers, in fact most don’t
Please analyse/review Jennifer`s body and how the audience just wasn`t ready for to 10 years ago and what has changed!
I was surprised how much hate it got when it came out. I liked it! I thought it was good for what it was. 💁
So True I would love to see an Analysis for Jennifer's Body especially during Halloween.
You guys should check out modern Gurlz. They have a great analysis of it
I don't see what people weren't "ready" for. It wasn't a bad movie but it wasn't particularly good, either. I feel complete and utter apathy towards Jennifer's Body.
I'm lost too, not being a dick but what about it made it such a big deal to you?
I was surprised by the ending but I never wished for Milles to kill John. I wished him a life in prison where he could have witnessed that all his actions had no impact whatsoever on any other than the 2 cops. "Don't do it. Don't let him win."
@A Round Orifice in Nothingness In the video they claim that the viewer was subconsciously rooting for Milles to kill him. I didn't agree with them on that point, thus my comment
@@Schnukii13 I remember shouting at the screen when Mills was going to kill him not to do it I was that invested in the horrifying ending and was just feeling fucked up when Bowie’s “The Hearts Filthy Lesson” started playing with the credits long after the act.
Fucking great movie.
You know?
I was wondering through all the story what would be the last sin.
I think it is no coincidence that it was Wrath.
Point is - He's a psychopath, we need to erase every single psychopaths in this world.
Whether it is Carnage or Chaos, I don't care, be a Psychopath-HUNTER.
@@pi.log10 so with your logic in order to “defeat” said psychopath, you need to become a psychopath?
I still say "what's in the boooooxx" whenever we get a package. I can't help it.
Me to Carla
"I am totally normal, see how I talk in a monotone like a normal person?"
This one is a top 5 Take so far!! Great work “the Take”!
My friend cried when he heard john doe's monologue at the end. It really shook him up, he broke down, and just get saying he's right.
Great Take. It's also worth noting that Summerset's world view is shaped by his past. So even though John Doe mirrors his beliefs in certain ways, it is his partner Mills' opposite values that I think have the more profound effect on him (Or at least stir him to change at the end)
He has to stay because idealism is ever presently present and as dangerous as any staunch belief. He is a part of the remnant of G-d
Point is - He's a psychopath, we need to erase every single psychopaths in this world.
Whether it is Carnage or Chaos, I don't care, be a Psychopath-HUNTER.
This was such a good one! You guys are fantastic at breaking down the nuances of so so many great topics, and describing these interesting theory’s in such an eloquent way. It’s probably a long shot, but since it was mentioned in this video, I would not only love, but be grateful for your take on the themes and overall story of The Divine Comedy. It’s not exactly an easy read, but I’ve always been so fascinated by it.
That "deteeeeeeeeeeective" will and always gonna get me frightened!
Just a note on the ending...the cops don't say Mills will be protected for "committing murder while wearing a badge"...they say "We will take care of him" because he committed the murder while not sane due to his grief.
Pretty big difference.
My late father was a police officer. When we watched this movie, I asked him what would happen to Pitt’s character. He said “the nut house.” Hmmm…maybe Se7en segues into 12 Monkeys?? 🤣🤣
@@jennifermelton9598I when he gets out of the nuthouse, Fight Club begins
I haven't even watched the video yet, but with my country at war right now, the question made me cry. With each day it's getting harder and harder to give a positive answer to that question.
I went to the theatre to see this movie with my best friend when it first came out in 1995, and 28 years later, the ending still haunts me but at the same time, I came to realize that this was indeed a story that is based in fact on what the justice system contends with when police, detectives, FBI agents, lawyers, and judges have to contend with when thoroughly studying the criminal mind. Most drama and criminal shows that have been created were based on this movie alone, it awakened in me to becoming a true crime enthusiast, because I am forever wondering the elusive "why". In constructing my own analysis of this movie and all of its intricate characters, I found that detective Somerset may have been jaded and tired but he spoke with wisdom when trying to explain to his partner, that dismissing a criminal's actions and labeling them as "crazy" or "insane" was a mistake. Mills was too self-centered on becoming the "hero" of this story and not really listening to the wisdom of a more older veteran of the job.
David Fincher’s best movie. But he’s a great filmmaker!
@Luvie1980
I agree with the second part.
AlienBoy13 ok detective somerset!
@@alienboy1322 it's eaily one of his best. It's a fantastic film even if you don't think it's his best.
I think it's "one of his best" not his "best". Fight Club and The Social Network was better in my opinion
@@arnav7458 fight club was his best
Right from the get go, Mills didn't discover her head in a box... That was Sommerset. Mills never looked in the box, he simply reacted to information received.
So important to the concept of wrath
well I mean, he also reacted to how Somerset, the only one who saw the box, run towards him with extreme caution and concern for YOU, you’d bet that whatever is inside the box is somehow related to you
R. Lee Emery was good in this movie, not playing his usual yelling, drill sergeant, military role. He is missed.....
I came running when i saw the title
Do a video about comic relief characters being taken seriously by the middle of a tv show please
Who would be the examples?
It may be a weird example but jay from NINJAGO he used to be a comic relief character, who didn’t get taken seriously until the sixth season.
He got taken seriously because they showed how he could believe in himself and stop forcing the situation to make him seem funny.
Rodrigo Carrillo or Charles Boyle
Saul Goodman
gibby from icarly
I don’t think the killing of John Doe was in cold blood.
This expression alludes to the notion that blood is the seat of emotion and is hot in passion and cold in calm. The term therefore means not “in the heat of passion,” but “in a calculated, deliberate manner.”
It was somewhat deliberate. He stopped and considered the act he would be committing before doing the deed.
Point is - He's a psychopath, we need to erase every single psychopaths in this world.
Whether it is Carnage or Chaos, I don't care, be a Psychopath-HUNTER.
It never ceases to amaze me how some people can still be able to get upset about spoilers from a movie that came out over 25 years ago.
What about the teenager who wasn’t even born yet when this came out and is now seeing it for the first time? Do they not deserve to be surprised by the film’s reveals, to experience it with a clear mind like those who were there when it came out?
Xavier Taylor Touché
Perhaps they should watch the movie instead of a video essay about the movie if they don't want to have the plot spoiled.
@@MisBabbles I was referring more to the idea of spoiler term limits in general, not necessarily in this specific situation. But, yeah there’s no reason to come to vids like this and get mad about spoilers. I’ve personally had several great movies spoiled for me because the person I was talking to was like, “but it came out decades ago!” True. But, I wasn’t even born so I’m only going to see it now at “x” age. People have different opinions which is fine but I personally treasure the first-time experience with a movie because once that’s gone, no matter how many times you watch it, you can never get that back.
@@XXavierTaylor fair enough, although when something is part of the cultural consciousness and generally accepted as known we tend to make reference to it. I had a 13 year old I coached yell at me in 2002 for saying, "Luke, I am your father," because it spoiled Empire for her. Now, sure, she wasn't born at it's release, but neither was I (I was 19 at the time). I just don't think you can reasonably expect people to edit every cultural reference with an age verification check first. If it's that important, watch it. It's not like these are titles that are hard to access. Se7en is on Netflix. Star Wars can be absorbed through oxygen at this point...
Excellent analysis! One of your best videos yet. I'd never really considered how tied in our ideas of good and evil are with that of order and chaos. The fact that we feel relieved when a crime story is concluded with the catching of the criminal makes sense in that regard. Whereas, if the story doesn't conclude this way, we feel uneasy because disorder has prevailed. Of course, just because a society is ordered does not automatically make it good.
and it said that there are still 2 missing bodies, I was expecting morgan and brad to be those bodies but it was brad’s wife and the baby inside.... what a movie
Until the first shoot out with the serial killer I honestly thought it could've been Somerset due to a couple of reasons such as him getting irritated when Miles says the killer is insane, being the first one to point out the connection between Dante's Inferno, doing under the table actions, etc. I like Somerset being a generally good person, but it would've made for a crazier twist given he was always there watching and with his interactions with Miles and his wife.
It was not a happy ending or just ending, but it felt necessary, not even comforting, but necessary, to let Brad put that bullet in Kevin’s head.
Fantastic summary. Helps understand the themes much more. Thanks.
One of the themes Seven debates is nihilism. The use of structure, characters and symbolism is used to share the movie’s moral judgement on the way in which one should traverse through life. We see through David Mills the young and ambitious drive to help the world despite its apparent evil (this can be seen through him modelling Somerset by reading the books necessary to better understand the case). Contrastingly, Somerset who is in the latter part of his career is quitting his job to move elsewhere. Somerset tells himself that he just wants a change of life, however David (who can be seen as a younger version of himself) exposes him to the reality that he has lost a mentality that fights for the good of the world rather than accepting the notion the crime is inevitable and will never stop. David never fails to tell Somerset the objective truth regardless of its consequences (which explains why at first Somerset does not want to be associated with Pitt as he leaves Somerset vunerable to exposure. However, Somerset later takes a liking to Pitt and learns from his harsh truths). This can be consolidated through the symbol of the clock and the ever present theme of time. In the beginning of the movie, whilst Somerset is still wanting to retire the clock operates as a symbol of his time left as an inspector and the slow rise in volume parallels its increasing urgency. Later on in the movie (after David exposes Somerset), Somerset dramatically throws the clock symbolising the protagonist taking back the responsibility and burden of helping the world around him and consequently himself. This behaviour can also be seen in David in the early stages of the movie with his (as previously mentioned) harsh but truthful talks. Despite the consequences it could bring, David takes the burden to help those around him and say it like it is. The structure leads to the climatic ending where both characters in entirely contrasting points of morality are faced with a choice. Somerset (who chooses correctly) finds the head of David’s wife in a box and decides to attempt to calm David down in an effort to help him. Conversely, after a dramatic sequence of shots, it is made personal with David, as he finds out his wife has been one of the victims of the killer. David subsequently struggles with the ultimate choice of whether to choose to fight for the good in the world, or join the evil and kill John Doe (fulfilling the seventh deadly sin: wrath). David ultimately shoots the John, and thus conforms to the nihilism that is the physical embodiment of the killer. The movie shows nihilism in the face of an evil world to be cowardly and out right wrong, as David ends up arrested, and likewise the killer dead. Lastly, Somerset addresses a profound quote which says “the world is a fine place and worth fighting for” Somerset disagrees with the first part and agrees with the latter.
Somerset who is shown to be reserved, gets to like David as it can only be assumed that David resembles Somerset’s former self. He sees the ambition and strive to help the world which allows him to reconnect with that morality. The plot therefore shows that the evils of the world will get you down, but only you can choose the painful but fruitful task to get back up, and to keep fighting for the good. This is shown to be a very serious task that must be approached with the upmost caution. Fighting the devil is no easy task and it can irreversibly damage the spirit (as we see with David).
Furthermore, the references to literature such as Paradise lost and Chaucer’s Canterbury tales only consolidate these arguments. Also the symbolism of the killer’s room (a cross but in red light - the colour of the devil); all the Christmas trees hanging down from the ceiling in John’s room (the imagery of the birth of Christ which is falling (representing hell)). These all represent the killer’s mindset of damnation that subsequently leads to his death. Despite John being well read and smart, it does not mean he cannot cause his own damnation through nihilism. Thus, take this as a warning to keep your own values in check. Whatever happens you must make the decision to fight for good, and not to fall victim to evil.
' I can't keep contributing to a world that treats apathy as a virtue. '
It was curious that you mentioned the Sherlock Holmes stories as the common inspiration for the detective fiction genre and the restoration of order, because while several stories featuring the brilliant detective did get a satisfactory ending, there were also some cases where Holmes was a little too late or the antagonist of the story won out. There were cases with a touch of tragedy, like The dancing men or even The final problem which was a curiously fitting ending for the detective who sought to bring down an empire built on crime.
The author tried to remind the reader several times that though the truth may be revealed, gradually or through concentrated effort - the detective or the side of order does not always win. The consequences of situations may sometimes be the very opposite of the desired outcome or may be even be left in ambiguity.
Agatha Christie also voiced several interesting philosophies regarding morality, punishment and consequences in cases like Five Little Pigs and The Unexpected Guest - the truth is revealed and affords some satisfaction but the outcome is not always good.
When one considers these early inspirations for the mystery, whodunit genre of movies, endings like the one in this movie make a little more sense.
Great thoughtful comment. Five Little Pigs is one of my favorites of Christie’s. I’d say Crooked House is another good example, and I’m sure there are others. Love her work!
Point is - He's a psychopath, we need to erase every single psychopaths in this world.
Whether it is Carnage or Chaos, I don't care, be a Psychopath-HUNTER.
FINALLYYYY!! I've been waiting for the take to do this video! i'm so flippin happy!!
In his 1995 book, The Death of Satan: How Americans Have Lost the Sense of Evil, Andrew Delbanco compares many popular and literary cultural tropes to Augustine's theology (the best and the worst of it) and states that evil is the inability to see evil in oneself, always projecting it onto another. Augustine himself realized this and yet was a hateful antisemite. I do not remember whether Seven was mentioned in the book, but John Doe's conviction of his own righteousness (albeit that he admits to envy being his deadly sin), mirrored by Detective Mills's overall optimism regarding everyone who conforms to his worldview could be one description of what the "evil" at the heart of the film's narrative is? This would also defeat the very dichotomy of order and chaos, since "order" is not necessarily any better in terms of ethical substance than is chaos. There is a horrible logic to John Doe's actions, but they are just that: logical.
I was extremely young when I saw this movie and I remember begging Pitt's character to not shoot Spacey's character. I always wanted to be an FBI agent when I was a kid and I remember feeling he would dishonor everything the badge stood for if he killed him. Funny how now we are so apathtic to police killing people to the extent we've allowed it to become politicized.
Finally a take on a film worth to have a take on! Please, keep these coming - whether it's popular or not.
I mean, what about the other films make them less worthy of a take?
@@iNtando1 I mean...Sex and the City, HIMYM, New Girl, need I go on? The amount of time they waste analysing worthless American TV cr*p is beyond annoying. Of course, they get more views on them, so hey.
@@cynicalcenobia I didn't ask you WHICH other films weren't worthy of a take (I already had a feeling that it would be the more female centered, romantic or "chick flick" types of films and movies). My question is WHAT ABOUT these shows make them less worthy of a take, to you?
Kamaria UA-cam commenters like insulting things they haven't watched
@@CamJames Yup. It's the pretentiousness for me.
I've randomly watched this and now I am obsessed with this channel
The thing that undermines everything Doe says - about punishing the guilty, etc - is his killing of Tracy (and her unborn child). Neither was guilty of any sin. Even if Doe thought his other five victims were worthless sinners, he could not use that excuse with Tracy.
that is why he needed to have himself killed for his own sin; envy
@@michelleangawa1522 Good point.
Thank you so much for making this video!
The way lust dies in this movie has stuck with me for decades. It, along with the end, are truly terrible.
Brilliant thing is the corpse is obscured and you only hear what happened but don’t see, brilliant choice.
Yes! And Leland Orser is fantastic in the scene where he explains what happened - he is horrified at his actions and you feel it deep in your soul through the acting.
Excellent presentation. I usually avoid gruesome films like this, but the issues raised in your presentation pretty much guarantees that I will view it even if it produces bad dreams. Well done.
Such a great and in depth observation! Please keep up the great analysis!
"Through me you pass into eternal pain:
Through me among the people lost for aye.
Justice the founder of my fabric moved:
To rear me was the task of power divine,
Supremest wisdom, and primeval love.
Before me things create were none, save things
Eternal, and eternal I shall endure.
All hope abandon, ye who enter here."
Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy
I love your quotations, you always find some pearls of divine wisdom which are apt to the video! 💖✨
@@trinaq Thank you so much
After being in that place where you are to abandon all hope I realized that that doesn’t have to hold true. And I don’t recommend going there. It’s infinitely worse than you could ever imagine.
@@thomasfholland I know.
@@thomasfholland one might say it's hell.
The car ride was so stressful it gave so much time to make predictions for what is about to happen.... insane
Great work as usual. Thank you for the video.
Okay, I'm not trying to sound pretentious, but after a certain point in the movie (when John was making a deal for the last two murders), I expected it to be about David's wife Tracy and the baby. You know, the last two sins were about envy and wrath, but damn, I wasn't expecting wrath to be David killing John.
I remember this came out, I believe Usual Suspects was out at that time, and Showgirls premiered. I wanted to see this movie more than anything, I was 17 and my cousin was 18 and he was dead set on seeing Showgirls. He had the car, he had volunteered to pay for me, I tried to convince him to see this but nope, we went to go see flipping Showgirls. I wasted two hours of my life on that terrible movie and never got to see Seven in the theaters (I was poor with no car so wasn't like I had many chances to see a movie). Loved Seven, it was great, love the bleak ending because sometimes we need bleak endings, only regret is I never had a chance to see this in the theaters because I feel like the atmosphere would have heightened the viewing experience. Arrggh, Showgirls, never went to see a movie with him again.
🤣 Showgirls.... Absolutely frightening. - Randy Scream 2
@@bleeneo101 imagine being me, missing two incredible movies in Usual Suspects and Seven just to see Jessie, my least favorite character from Saved By the Bell, naked for a few minutes. I'll be bitter forever.
Ernest Hemingway once wrote, "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for." I agree with the second part.
It’s a chaotic places with its own chaotic rules. Either adapt or die. It’s not that hard to understand.
About the movie and Fincher: the best. Nothing to add.-
Thank you so much for this video!!
This is one of my all time favourite movies, and I’m so pleased with the way you described this movie. I always learn so much from these videos, it’s not a simple movie review, you both go over so many topics that I find so interesting.
🖤
This channel is really the bomb!! Such intelligent "takes" on various topics.
Who all believe that Se7en is a pre-Batman Gotham tale.
it's very much like it a cool badass stylized way. I love this movie.
Almost feels like Riddler's game with Batman
"There has to be an invisible sun
It gives its heat to everyone
There has to be an invisible sun
That gives us hope when the whole day's done
"
Invisible sun, The Police, Ghost in the Machine (1981)
Although Somerset's final VO does seem like a studio mandate, I cannot tell you how badly I needed to hear those words the first time I saw this film. At the time, there just hadn't been anything like it, it was an absolute sucker punch of despair. It seemed like a gentle hand on the shoulder as it asked us to look at a terrible world and find some source of condolence. Otherwise, it would be no different from John Doe.
From Hemingway's novel For Whom the Bell Tolls, the protagonist thinks to himself as he nears death, "the world is a fine place and worth fighting for and I hate very much to leave it." Even in that context, it reads more optimistically than in the dark ending of Seven.
This film is a masterpiece!! It’s soo well paced and perfectly shot and it’s one of the greatest crime films and greatest films of all time.
I was looking for this take over a year ago when I saw it in Netflix and y'all did it!!!
Does anyone find the idea of se7en really similar to the dark knight? Maybe Christopher Nolan is paying tribute to this movie
In the dark knight Batman, Joker and Harvey Dent each represented Somerset, John Doc and mill. Their ideas of morals and settings are quite similar in this 2 movies, for example Batman don't kill, Somerset only took his gun out 3 times, they both seen horrible shit but still fight crimes for this city. Joker believes in chaos and he wanted to show the world their morals, their code, it's a bad joke, John Doc sees the sins of humanity and wanted to prove people he is right. Harvey turns into 2 face after his girlfriend Rachel was killed by joker, Mill went all john wick after the head of his wife is found, they both believed in good of humanity and believes they could bring good in the city again.
In the dark knight batman uses different technologies like hacking into everyone's phones in Gotham in order to bring down joker, in se&en Mills bribed the old women and kicked open Johns door without a warren. These actions rise the question of moral whether breaking rules and lying to protect or bring justice correct or wrong.
the 2 movies has a lot in common and both is a movie worth watching
btw Morgan Freeman is in both movies lol
Amazing analysis girls, my favourite scene in this movie is where John Doe apprehended Mills during the chase and by my opinion is a masterpiece.
I also so a analysis video who pointed out the city is also character, because the atmosphere and tone are so vivid and striking in this movie.
Just another week in Gotham City.
This channel makes such amazing analyses
I find it interesting how the entirety of the move took place in one week. On "seven" days, I think the movie almost is giving us a choice and that choice is when we are confronted with trials, grief, loss, murder, theft and abuse. Do we rise above it while hurting inside and look for positivity or do we let it consume us into insanity?? That's what John Doe did and seemingly Ellis at the end. And, if a person who is morally wrong does something, is it the system that man has created, that makes a serial killer or is it themselves or the fact that they are inferior to the people who aren't morally wrong even if the world or system beat them down so much, they ended wanting to actually harm another human.
So, if there are lots of "John Does" in the world, what's the world's place in creating them. And, are we all just as bad as each other because if our world has brought someone to a place of insanity, does that mean that we are all a "John Doe". As long as their is evil, the cycle will keep repeating itself week after week because we aren't paying attention to the events in people lives that lead them down a dark path so after every "seven" days, evil continues, the world gets worse and there is no hope because on every face, there is a sin that has hurt someone else. I find it interesting that the film sort of plays into the days of the week almost like a cycle. This cycle is sin, the cycle of submission into hurting other people out of survival of your own feelings. That is the message of Se7en, do we rise above evil or do we submit to it, become insane and eventually let our Sins worsen until we become evil, the next cog that continues the cycle over the next "Se7en" days.
These essays are awesome!❤️
Seems to me John Doe, someone attempting to find purpose in a chaotic world, had religion to fall back on. It provides a safety net. Purpose, meaning, duty. Like how the detectives were trying to make sense of why Doe does what he does, Doe was doing the same; filling a void and trying to find meaning in a world that seems purposeless. In a way Doe looked into the Abyss and blinked. Someone hiding behind a venue of so called righteousness, when in actuality they were just scared of it all. Because his actions ultimately where meaningless in effecting the larger world that surrounds them. Cause even after the ending, sure his actions will have an effect to the people involved in his case, but to the billions of others outside of that they will have never heard of him, and continue on with their lives as world keeps on spinning. He'll just be another blip in existence that screamed to say they were significant before being ultimately forgotten. A pity then that they gave in before they ever had the chance to add something positive to a weary world.
I know this take sounds out of focus, but I'm just going off the top of my head before getting on with my life.
Yes. He caught a glimpse of the apathy of the world, and instead of combatting it with empathy, he gave in and became the very thing he despises by doing so called retribution. Ultimately, remembered or not, I view John Doe as striving to be a mirror of society's worst by hitting them with a sledgehammer, and not anymore with a tap on the shoulder.
I have never seen seven but this makes me want to watch the movie
Dude, the ending is spoiled for you man, the entire essence of what makes the climax, hence the movie so great is revealed.Might be an underwhelming experience. If you do watch it after this, let me know how was it for you.
Really? This just make me want to never watch it!
This was a great series of advert collections with a few mins of Se7en in between :)
I'd like to be friends with the people who took a moment of pause to comment and watch this video. I appreciate you all for loving this film the same way as I do. I can't express my joy enough to know I'm not the only one who believes in the message & philosophy of this film.
Yup. I love this film too. And rewatching it is just so amazing. Makes me think me.
@@JoJo-zd5tm let's be friends...
@@soulghost9094 🤝
We need a Kim Wexler take.
I gotta be honest, that ending surprised me.
And I kinda love the movie for it.
Absolutely Brilliant Analysis 👏🏻
Do a “Chernobyl” video please
make a video about "what makes a main character"
btw love ur videoss ❤❤
Kevin Spacey is Kevin Spacey in Seven: The Movie
His career and reputation are in that box
Perfectly done!
this is probably a stupid question and im probably just playing into the same mentality of trying to compartmentalize everything I see - but if serial killers aren't evil and they aren't crazy, then what are they? how do we explain them without justifying them but also not dehumanizing them?
“WHAT’S IN THE BOX?!”
Kevin Spacey is a horrible, despicable, disgusting, vile, horrendous person... but he is one HELL of an actor! Se7en was SO good. I remember when he said, "She begged for her life, and the life of the baby inside of her." I was sooooo shocked! OH MAN!!!! Great film!
This was awesome. Thank you both!
Eye for an eye. Revenge isn't meant to ease the pain, it's to balance the scale.
I was thinking more that the movie was saying that you have to live the life of a cynic to live in this world, because this world can produce the most extreme horrors that are unfathomed but undeniably able to exist.
Apathy is Death. ... Worse than death, because at least a rotting corpse feeds the beasts and insects.
I love this movie not for the dark ending but the realism.
So most analyses and a lot of commenters seem to think that Mills will somehow get off the hook, and I think this desire for some leniency is testament to the actual horror of the dilemman. However in the original script which has a more elaborate ending sequence it says that Mills will be arraigned, so legal procedure is up and running, partly also for that fact that in the script he also injures Somerset.
I have included the last part of the script here from the moment it begins to slightly deviate from the film version.
It is one of a bunch of endings that were proposed in the struggle between the studio on one side and Fincher, Pitt and Freeman on the other. I list them here for references, some are REALLY bad:
1. The traditional action climax: A race to save Tracy
2. The marginally happy ending: Somerset shoots Doe go spare Mills from further pain.
3. The even bleaker ending: Mills shoots Doe and wounds Somerset
4. The WTF ending: A fiery church shootout in which Mills is basically Jesus (and dies).
5. The abrupt ending: Cut to black after Mills shoots Doe
6. The cop-out ending: Mills's dog is in the box (the studio beginning to really lose it here with this suggestion).
In the one included here you’ll see some references to a house being repaired a toolbelt and some rose wall paper - this is because the original beginning of the movie has Somerset visiting a house in the countryside that he plans to restore when he retires. Which is his immediate goal, so a lot of that stuff is thematic callbacks to the intro. Anyway - here goes:
*******
Mills holds the gun at Doe's head, undecided, furious.
Somerset edges towards them.
MILLS
(looks to Somerset)
Stop it! You stay away!
Somerset moves the switchblade so he's holding it by the blade,
ready to throw, keeping it hidden.
SOMERSET
I can't let you do this!
Mills kicks Doe and throws him backwards on the ground. The
HELICOPTER is CLOSER.
Mills stands over Doe and points the gun.
JOHN DOE
She begged for her life, and for the life
of your baby inside her.
Mills' face fills with confusion -- then a wave of horror.
Doe's eyes register shock.
JOHN DOE
You didn't know.
SOMERSET
NO!
Somerset brings his hand out to throw the blade, but Mills reacts
to the movement, turns on Somerset and fires -- BLAM!
Somerset flies backwards in the air, bullet exploding into his
shoulder, just above the bullet-proof vest's opening.
Somerset hits the ground, crying out, bloody, writhing.
Mills turns the gun on John Doe.
INT. POLICE HELICOPTER -- EARLY EVENING
The chopper is over the marshland. California is leaning out
with his rifle. He cringes from the sounds as FROM HIS HEADSET
is HEARD: BLAM -- BLAM -- BLAM -- BLAM -- BLAM.
INSERT -- TITLE CARD
TWO WEEKS LATER
INT. HOSPITAL ROOM -- DAY
Somerset sits in a wheelchair. He is dressed in a hospital gown.
His upper chest and shoulder are wrapped in bandages. He stares
out the window at the city's buildings.
CAPTAIN (o.s)
Hey there, Somerset.
Somerset turns to see the captain. Somerset looks weak, older.
SOMERSET
Hello.
The captain walks in, carrying something behind his back.
CAPTAIN
How you feeling?
SOMERSET
I can breathe without pain now, so I guess
I feel great.
Somerset musters a lame smile. The captain sits on the bed.
CAPTAIN
The guys at the precinct heard you're
getting out today. Anyway, we all chipped
in...
The captain takes a big tool belt full of tools from behind his
back. He hands it over. Somerset looks at it and lays it on his
lap. He smiles for real.
SOMERSET
Thank you. Tell them, thank you.
CAPTAIN
We figure you need all the tools you can
get to fix up that piece of shit you call a
house.
SOMERSET
Yeah, that's true.
Somerset continues examining the tools.
CAPTAIN
They're hoping you stop and say goodbye
before you go, but I told them not to
expect it.
SOMERSET
(not looking up)
It would be too hard.
The captain stands.
CAPTAIN
I have to get going, but... there is one
more thing.
Somerset looks up. The captain takes a letter from his pocket.
CAPTAIN
I don't know if you're going to want it.
It was down front. It's from Mills.
Somerset pauses, then puts out his hand to take it.
CAPTAIN
He's being arraigned tomorrow.
SOMERSET
I read about it in the paper.
Somerset just looks at the letter.
CAPTAIN
I guess... decide for yourself. I don't
know what it says. I'm going to go.
SOMERSET
I'll see you.
The captain nods and walks into the hall.
Somerset wheels back to the window. He looks at the letter.
Pause. He opens it. Unfolds the paper inside.
The note reads:
YOU WERE RIGHT. YOU WERE
RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING.
Somerset closes the note, upset.
INT. HOSPITAL, MAIN NURSES' STATION -- DAY
Somerset is in street clothes. He signs a form at the busy front
desk. A NURSE takes the form and hands Somerset a large manila
envelope.
NURSE
There you go, Mister Somerset.
"Mister" causes Somerset to look strangely at the nurse.
NURSE
Yes?
SOMERSET
Nothing.
EXT. HOSPITAL -- DAY
Somerset comes down the stairs, slowly, tired. He holds the
manila envelope and a small suitcase. The streets are busy with
pedestrians and traffic.
He walks down the sidewalk.
He puts down the suitcase and opens the manila envelope to look
inside. He sorts through the contents, takes out his keys and
puts them in his pocket.
He reaches in the envelope again, and takes out the square of
wallpaper with the pale, red rose on it. There is some dried
blood on the paper. Somerset lays the envelope on the ground
beside the suitcase.
He looks at the rose, tries to scratch off the blood.
He looks up, squinting from the sun, at the city bustling around
him. At the tight canyon formed by the buildings.
At the cars, buses and taxis racing in the streets.
At a man, talking to himself, who lies on the sidewalk,
surrounded by garbage.
At the people, miserable people, walking past him.
Somerset takes out the note from Mills: YOU WERE RIGHT. YOU WERE
RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING.
A father passes by, holding his young son's hand. Somerset turns
to watch them pass. The father reaches to pick the son up and
carry him in his arms. The boy laughs and holds tight.
The father hugs his son to him, kisses him on the cheek. The boy
returns the kiss with great affection.
Somerset watches them disappear in the mass of humanity. He
looks back at the two papers in his hands. He lets out a sigh.
SOMERSET
(to himself)
Oh... man...
He sighs again, drained.
He puts the pale paper rose inside the note from Mills. He folds
them together.
He tears them both up, into little pieces.
EXT. PRECINCT HOUSE -- DAY
Cars roll by in the street. Cops come and go.
Somerset walks up the stairs, into the precinct house. The doors
shut behind him.
END
Evil and good seems like it's all about a personal preference. What some people think is good others will think it's evil and vice versa.
Truly a masterpiece