Jeff, your description of the three groups of practicing religious people in answer to Wes’s question of “why are we different?” (Searching, questioning the tradition you were raised in, etc) Is awesome.
Man I'm halfway through listening to this and there's so many times I wish I could jump in and share what little I know from my experience. I've been raised Baptist, explored Church history and Christian traditions outside of my own in my early 20s, explored Orthodoxy for about 4 years before ultimately becoming Catholic at 28. What I find fascinating is where the emphasis on what's important differs (sermon vs Eucharist for example) and how there's so much theological overlap in apostolic Christianity (Catholicism and the various Orthodoxies). Maybe we can chat some day. It would probably be very enjoyable. Keep exploring!
57:30 re: Pageau’s warning of just going home and reading your Bible alone. I think he’s just warning against individualism. Edit: after hearing what Jeff said in response…yes. Loved all that.
I hear you about being discouraged the more you learn and feeling like you’re stuck in the hallway…I have struggled the more I discover how many “versions” of Christianity there are out there and how they are divided. I had felt pretty settled in pursuing Orthodoxy, but even that has become a challenge in the era of Covid and politics. No one is unified and it’s causing me anxiety and I’m really struggling with how to move forward. 😕
Wes: I don't want a Sunday where I'm going through motions I don't understand Jeff: Texas, Arkansas, Alabama, Georgia, all these Baptist Churches are going through the same motions 00:37:14
Some presentation stuff: - the vibrate function on the phone is quite loud when listening with earphones. - a short summary of MP:s podcast episode and the date it was uploaded would probably be appreciated. - giving the link to the episode, and other things referenced, in the description might be nice too. - timestamps (as someone who listens to PVK I don’t mind it, but I know that a comment with the general timestamps on a long video gets a lot of likes).
50:25 “That’s not where (how) I found God!” Sure. Because it isn’t. They’re not you. God is personal. And our relationship with him is necessarily so. God plays in 10,000 places. And more.
1:16:19 “the things they’re focusing on don’t just come out of the ether.” Nothing is arbitrary. In any tradition. That’s the myth of modernism and nominalism.
The distinction btw a personal relationship with Jesus & or that is mediated by a priest/liturgy/sacrament is a false dichotomy. I don’t think that an Orthodox person would deny a personal relationship with Jesus, but it is experienced or definitely construed or conceived in very different ways. A big part of seeing the difference is understanding iconography. Is venerating icons idolatry? I would say no. It’s the opposite. It’s a embodied ritual of affirming incarnation in the material world. You can’t be an idolator as an iconocist (another new made-up word: one who affirms the sacramental world and that everything is iconic and is revelatory of God).
Orthodox don't need a mediator, people take on responsibilities like priest to "image" Christ" to fasilitate things like Confession, and serving the liturgy/ eucharist in order to help the flock. They have more responsibility.....not power. They will also be judged more harshly at last judgement if you read James. Its a mercy that they do that for us. The vail being torn to me does not mean there is no longer a Holy place.......it means that there can be more holly places than jerusalem. "neither here or in Jerusalem". If we don't makes places Holy.......How can we learn to bring the Hollyness inside us and embody it? Orthodox ask Jesus to have mercy on us serveral times a day.....so we dont need a mediator. Its a different way of looking at things I know. I hope I exsplained it well. God Bless
Bro... go to church with your wife. Husbands and wifes need to come together (as we were originally created) and worship the lord. If you think there is a problem with you taking communion, talk to the priest. Tell him you were baptized with the same spirit as him and see where it goes.
Jesus took the sins of the world so we can have a relationship with the father and we do not have to go through church or anyone else to find him. Jesus's body is the temple to worship not the orthodox, jewish, or catholic churchs... you still need to go to church though to worship with your community and reset our attention back on christ.
Really appreciated this convo. Thanks, gentlemen.
Jeff, your description of the three groups of practicing religious people in answer to Wes’s question of “why are we different?” (Searching, questioning the tradition you were raised in, etc)
Is awesome.
Hecks yeah.
Oh I’m definitely listening to this one ☝🏻 😁
Prove it.
@@WhiteStoneName Jeff is converting to Orthodoxy. See?
Man I'm halfway through listening to this and there's so many times I wish I could jump in and share what little I know from my experience. I've been raised Baptist, explored Church history and Christian traditions outside of my own in my early 20s, explored Orthodoxy for about 4 years before ultimately becoming Catholic at 28. What I find fascinating is where the emphasis on what's important differs (sermon vs Eucharist for example) and how there's so much theological overlap in apostolic Christianity (Catholicism and the various Orthodoxies). Maybe we can chat some day. It would probably be very enjoyable. Keep exploring!
57:30 re: Pageau’s warning of just going home and reading your Bible alone.
I think he’s just warning against individualism.
Edit: after hearing what Jeff said in response…yes. Loved all that.
Interesting talk!
Channel’s grown a bit! 💪
I hear you about being discouraged the more you learn and feeling like you’re stuck in the hallway…I have struggled the more I discover how many “versions” of Christianity there are out there and how they are divided. I had felt pretty settled in pursuing Orthodoxy, but even that has become a challenge in the era of Covid and politics. No one is unified and it’s causing me anxiety and I’m really struggling with how to move forward. 😕
Wes: I don't want a Sunday where I'm going through motions I don't understand
Jeff: Texas, Arkansas, Alabama, Georgia, all these Baptist Churches are going through the same motions
00:37:14
Some presentation stuff:
- the vibrate function on the phone is quite loud when listening with earphones.
- a short summary of MP:s podcast episode and the date it was uploaded would probably be appreciated.
- giving the link to the episode, and other things referenced, in the description might be nice too.
- timestamps (as someone who listens to PVK I don’t mind it, but I know that a comment with the general timestamps on a long video gets a lot of likes).
00:19:27 The Church is the intermediary, because it is the body of Christ
01:08:03 Matt 6.6
50:25 “That’s not where (how) I found God!”
Sure. Because it isn’t. They’re not you.
God is personal. And our relationship with him is necessarily so. God plays in 10,000 places. And more.
1:16:19 “the things they’re focusing on don’t just come out of the ether.”
Nothing is arbitrary. In any tradition. That’s the myth of modernism and nominalism.
I guarantee you, there is a church within 15 minutes that needs someone to sit down and listen to others.
00:18:00 I did the exact same thing and look how I turned out lol
When you go to church, try focusing on what christ would do (getting to know the church community), and less on what others are doing / yourself.
The distinction btw a personal relationship with Jesus & or that is mediated by a priest/liturgy/sacrament is a false dichotomy.
I don’t think that an Orthodox person would deny a personal relationship with Jesus, but it is experienced or definitely construed or conceived in very different ways. A big part of seeing the difference is understanding iconography.
Is venerating icons idolatry? I would say no. It’s the opposite. It’s a embodied ritual of affirming incarnation in the material world. You can’t be an idolator as an iconocist (another new made-up word: one who affirms the sacramental world and that everything is iconic and is revelatory of God).
u turned that podcast off when I realised it was an orthodox sales pitch from pageau
Paul Vandelay? Seinfeld reference?
Importer/exporter of long matches….
Orthodox don't need a mediator, people take on responsibilities like priest to "image" Christ" to fasilitate things like Confession, and serving the liturgy/ eucharist in order to help the flock. They have more responsibility.....not power. They will also be judged more harshly at last judgement if you read James. Its a mercy that they do that for us. The vail being torn to me does not mean there is no longer a Holy place.......it means that there can be more holly places than jerusalem. "neither here or in Jerusalem". If we don't makes places Holy.......How can we learn to bring the Hollyness inside us and embody it? Orthodox ask Jesus to have mercy on us serveral times a day.....so we dont need a mediator. Its a different way of looking at things I know. I hope I exsplained it well. God Bless
Bro... go to church with your wife. Husbands and wifes need to come together (as we were originally created) and worship the lord. If you think there is a problem with you taking communion, talk to the priest. Tell him you were baptized with the same spirit as him and see where it goes.
01:11:11 With all respect, hearing you talk about communion that way is not fun for me to hear, with my big Catholic elephant ears ;)
Jesus took the sins of the world so we can have a relationship with the father and we do not have to go through church or anyone else to find him. Jesus's body is the temple to worship not the orthodox, jewish, or catholic churchs... you still need to go to church though to worship with your community and reset our attention back on christ.