Mortal Kombat 1 Sub Zero Does NOT Suck!!
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Sub Zero was Nerfed Hard after the Mortal Kombat 1 Beta, but does that Make Him Terrible? Today, I wanted to see for Myself how Viable Sub Zero actually is! Join me as we Discuss his Attacks and Playstyle!
#MortalKombat1 #mortalkombat #gaming
Let's Get This Video 2,000 Likes for Sub Zero!
Tons of people are misinterpreting what I said in this video. Being low tier is not the same as being terrible. Shao Kahn in MK11 was actually bad and players were still able to win tournaments with him. It's all about maximizing the tools your character has. My point in this video was that Sub Zero has options and abilities that many characters do not. Which is why his damage is below average. That said, I also mention in this video that Sub Zero should get a buff in some areas and that if he did get buffed all around that it would be fine too.
As for the "Pro players say he is bad" keep in mind they play at a different level than you and 90% of players. Against an average MK player you can absolutely win with Sub Zero and in fact you can win consistently. Many pros said Kollector was bad and Sonicfox bodied them with that exact character. They also said D'Vorah was terrible and once again they got destroyed by that same character. They say Nitara is bad and she has already reached top 8 in several tournaments and even won a couple. Possibly because Kameos can make any character good in this game. Sub Zero is definitely low tier, but he is nowhere near terrible. You can absolutely get wins with him just like any other low tier character. You can be hopeful for buffs without downplaying the character. Goro makes his overhead 100% safe and still gives you full combo on hit. Plus he lets you combo off the low.
I think they made Sareena into Bi-Han’s best Kameo for damage on purpose.
In Mythologies, Bi-Han’s compassion saved Sareena, and if the writers have a shred of writing talent, Sareena will save Bi-Han in the new era.
He needs to be buffed
@@maxrichards3881not true cyrax is a better kameo for him
He needs help
Sub zero can never be bad in my eyes 👀
Love how subzero gets nerfed for doing 50 percent 3 bars but you got raiden and baraka out here doing 50 percent 1 bar now he can barely get 30 percent mid screen with 1 bar 💀💀
And scorpion who gets 90% and geras 60%
Dawgs point is that sub zero has multiple easy ways to engage you to full combos compared to other characters without any meter being spent
Still, I do agree that sub zero needs a buff
@@DaniPino7020 Yeah getting 30% from a meterless combo is great imo. But I do think he needs a buff because it seems that spending meter to try to max out his damage feels like a waste.
@@Gamfluent Yeah, especially if you compare him to the likes of Baraka or Raiden which can delete your health bar with enough meter.
@@DaniPino7020except he doesn’t. He has the most react-able strings in the game. His 50/50s don’t work and his damage is mid at best. Even when he gets you in the corner his ice clone is so bad now that he can get poked through it unless the opponent is knocked down. Even then all you have to do to negate that is stand still and block for 1 second until it disappears.
Don’t forget his ice clone and mid are also nerfed, his mid is 15 frames instead of 11-12
The ice clone was nerfed too harshly
I completely disagree. He needs to be buffed
And his freeze time needs to put back to the way it was in the beta.
Also i believe other youtubers proved he doesn’t actually have 50 50s.
Sub zero gets around thirty.
Most every other character gets 40 and raiden baraka get 50 geras 60 and scorpion 90%
Yes, he needs buffs which Underdawg addresses, but he also said that if you think Sub is bad, you’re playing him wrong which I agree with as well! No disrespect, but Sub has never really been a crazy high damage character. He’s more of a character that controls space. Yes, in Mkx he’s gotten high damage combos, but he has always been more about controlling space than crazy high damage combos!
@wolfhunterplays3954 crazy how we provide evidence as to why he's not good and then we're just met with "well maybe you're bad"
@@salttrap1740you want reasons why is good and how to make him great, Underdawg is providing some in the video!
None of the cast has "true" 50-50's in this game. Baraka's overhead is also reactable. But that's never how 50-50s actually work. They work because of the accumulation of the mental stack in fighting games. Players don't just alternate between two moves in a match. They also throw, cancel moves into specials, stop strings early, and throw in hail-mary fatal blows sometimes. Then there are situational scenarios that add to the mental stack, like low life, empty resources, what round it is, if you're behind, etc. All this adds to the mental stack, and then all of a sudden that 24-frame overhead comes and you aren't ready for it because you were worrying about a million other things and you get hit by it. That's how Sub-Zero can still catch people.
@@SeanWashPhoto baraka’s overhead has range and its animation is better than subzero’s b2
If y’all want an actual good breakdown of subzero watch Mk Tom Brady.
dude did 5 videos bitching about subzero. He is a scrub
aight ill check it out
Tom is bias bro you’ll never get any true as it relates to sub zero from him
@@kingscorpion6432 “I don’t agree and can’t claim to know more about the game than him therefore he’s biased”
@@matthewcrane5294 SMH if you don't see it u just naive bro
He needs a buff for sure. Have to work really hard to compete against most characters...his snowball is very slow and then when the slide is blocked you get hit with a 40-50% combo. Can get zoned out so easy so I feel like once you get a combo going it needs to hurt the opponent more for sure.
You can tell he's not played any games against real people with sub because ice ball is so slow that against projectiles it won't even come out in time or if it does they can block it he has some of worst specials and strings in the game plus you can get hit through ice clone
I still think he needs a buff though just a bit to make him feel more rewarding
All you talked about was his combo damage. Not once did you mention his neutral game.
Most of sub zeros best strings, you can flat out armor thru. Which means no pressure. He doesn’t have good advancing moves which means you can out space him pretty easily. His “50/50” is react-able as hell. On top of that he’s mad punishable.
Combo damage is just one part of the puzzle.
Sub is trash tier.
Once someone has fought a sub zero 5 times his game plan is done
I play sub zero a decent amount and in competitive the first game I usually destroy, but after that I get predicted and punished lmao he needs more damage at least to make the combos worth
Exactly he’s way too predictable and gets punished heavy for trying to go for his bread and butters. The more people that play easier he will become for other people to block.
they must buff Sub-Zero ASAP
Right, lets just forget to mention that sub's strings all have gaps, iceball is 40 frame startup so lol gl using that, you can react to ice clone cancel with any armor..etc etc
Is the OH not reactable? Because if it is.. than it's not a 50/50 which is the crux of his whole argument.
Sub-Zero's damage is not a problem. From what I have seen, Sub-Zero's real issues are his combos in theory are good for meterless damage but they are not good in practice. They rely heavily on the opponent making a mistake rather than opening them up. Also his clone is some other weird shit on its own. I get that it is unsafe but the EX version takes two bars and is arguably more unsafe than his normal version. I am baffled as to why it is so costly when it doesn't do anything. Havik has a move that takes two bars and it GUARANTEES a combo because the move after it is unblockable and unavoidable. Its easy to see why its two bars.
Sub-Zero's on the other hand does... what exactly? Exactly what is the EX ice clone supposed to do that the normal can't? Anti air?
Not true at all he’s a mix up character 50/50 character so if you can’t open up your opponent you’re just bad
@@Lospollos24 he is NOT. A 50/50 character. His frame data for the overhead and low are so wildly different that you can literally just block low and react to the overhead. This isn't MK11 where he actually did have one. This Sub has way to big of a frame gap to have that be called a 50/50.
@@theprinceofthebadlands5204 ALL overheads like that we’re meant to be slower than lows your point? I’ve faced good subzero players and it’s not as react-able as you think it is you’re just bad
@@theprinceofthebadlands5204 so don’t trust the UA-camrs trust a random clown in the UA-cam section
@@Lospollos24 if that's your logic you can look at MK Tom Brady, who has mained Subzero competently for decades, talk about how this is not a true 50/50. I'll trust an actual competitive player over Underdawg on a character he has used since the 2000s.
A true 50/50 is when there is such a small frame gap between the two attacks, you literally have to guess which attack is coming out. Subzeros "50/50' in this game has a frame gap of 12 frames. His over head takes 24 frames to come out while his low is 12. With a gap that large, you can just reliably fuzzy guard the 50/50.
Brady is in his 40s and can react to this everytime. Certainly younger people can to.
Get to demi god with sub zero.. would make for a good video 😂😂
You can choose to take the low against sub and eat 23-25% MAX. Or you can choose to always block low and react to the overhead, which is super easy. Damage is nerfed to the ground. All of his ice combo extensions scale SUPER BAD. Ice slide is slow on startup, eats projectiles all the time, is super baitable, super punishable, is really slow travel speed (reactable at a distance) and can be punished by back jump almost 100% of the time unless slide itself is a punish. ice spike is punishable on hit, over head is unsafe, low gets no damage, ice clone is purely a counter poke/eat 1 projectile move. Ice ball can’t combo naturally. His projectile is not fullscreen. His strength is in counter zoning, (but he’s a mixup character) and his best move to get damage is a REACTIONARY ice clone. well guess what if they have a teleport (technically anyone can because of kameo) then good bye clone mindgames. Ex clone costs 2 bars and for what? It does nothing a well timed clone couldn’t do. He gets LESS damage for using meter in wayyyyy too many scenarios. His anti wake-up tech bags around 25% for 2 kameos and 2 bars. His mid is 15 frames(not that good) his pressure is lacking, he resorts to reactive ice clone, Ice ball spam, risking the overhead, or down one clone just to open up people… AS A MIX UP CHARACTER!! HE IS JUST BAD. Quit trying to downplay how bad he is. Tell the truth. He is soooo bad
Taking the low if the Sub is using Sonya as a kameo is an easy way to lose 35%.
Choosing to take the overhead instead is another easy 35% if he's using Sonya.
You're taking in the character by himself and not including the fact that his weaknesses can easily be solved by pairing him with a kameo. Scared of being unsafe? Use Cyrax/Goro. Want more damage? Use Sonya/Sareena. Want to have more Mix Up's? Use Frost.
He isn't a bad character, even in higher ranks, it just takes being good with neutral and knowing how to play the character and the characters your fighting against.
@@Duncle0you do know that the cameos you just listed require subzero to hit confirm right? Besides goro and cyrax that is
@@temp-td2ukyeah he’s just a ret@rd don’t mind him
You're on point, his OH is reactable af. Dunno what underdawg is smoking but I'd say sub is easily the worst character with all gaps in his strings and slow mid.
@@BeatingUr Pros would disagree.
Sub Zero still needs a buff 😅❄️
Titan Shang Tsung should have disguised himself as Titan Kitana. That way you could have Shang Tsung and Liu Kang both fooled.
Sub-Zero is definitely way worse than he was. The damage nerf, the mid nerf and the ice klone nerf were completely unnecessary in my opinion
Ya I just hit grand master and I will say his 50/50 is not real you can react. His clone if your fast enough can be punished with cameo or teleport. If they don’t make the overhead safe with cameo they are dead most characters I have tried get at least 42% off 1 bar. He just feels like a free win when I face him.
Found a bug in the game, sub zero ice clone projectile gets stopped by reptile acid bubble after it has already been blocked.
In my opinion, Sub Zero is the best Character in the game.
His Spinal tap and Ice ball ability spam can be super op if you time it right.
I will never see why people think he is "bad" maybe not the best, but I think saying he is bad is ridiculas.
Also, with Khameleon he is just very powerful.
As a Bi-Han main, I do have to work quite a bit to win matches. I think a damage buff would literally solve everything wrong with him (because it’s JUST his damage that’s the problem)
Agree
Its not just his damage. His normals strings are terrible and lead to nothing and are mostly unsafe. Also, his ONE deffensive tool to keep him safe(the clone)barely functions as it should. Andy move can armor through and the recovery from using it is absurd...
Nah, when it comes to Sub Zero, the only person I listen to is MK Tom Brady.
This needed to be said, He is not the strongest character but deff not bottom 5 and anyone wanna prove otherwise please fight me😂🚶🏽♂️
He does not have 50/50's thats blatant misinformation
I don’t understand why they thought Tanya was so good that they had to give her low damage. Damage should be distributed evenly amongst the characters nobody should have the lowest damage in the game that’s just stupid.
Two top Sub-Zero players who play him at the highest level, one with a full breakdown video of why he's bad and on how to utilize him, say he's terrible in comparison to other characters. Can you win with him? Of course. But when you have characters like Kenshi, Baraka, and Raiden, there is no comparison. Even SonicFox put Sub in bottom three. Play him regularly then you can tell us how good he is.
I actually just saw Sub Zero at an online tournament yesterday and he was winning. Turns out he has a 38% meterless combo from midscreen and gets even better damage in the corner. Which pro players are you referring to specifically?
@@TrueUnderDawgGamingeverybody has good meterless damage Serena bud 😂😂😂
Hes ok and I use kano as his kameo. The only problem I have with sub is his launcher is super slow compared to some others and his ice clone has a really long cool down timer.
How does everyone feel about the character designs in this game? I think a lot of character base costumes are amazing but a lot of other costumes you can unlock are just terrible
Personally, I love how they balance they simple with the creative.
It’s a mix for me. Not a fan of things like Scorpion having a scorpion tattooed on himself. Reminds me of Johnny having Johnny tattooed on his chest.
Love how everyone in the comments acts like a tournament Sub-Zero talking about frame data, meter, and mix-ups.
Just sounds like people that are bad and just want to auto-pilot and don’t even know how to mix. 😂
Stay strong Sub-Zero mains, our frosty boi will rise eventually….
You can cancel the first hit of sub zeros low and overhead strings into a sereena combo extender and it’s 35% damage every time if you use a combo with subs amped dive kick, and the worst they can do is poke you if they block your hit and Serena’s boomerangs
@RadecKahn I’ve never tried him with Lao, but I wouldn’t say sub becomes OP with sereena, it gives him more damage yes but the overhead is reactable and punishable if you go for the boomerangs after canceling the second hit, and since it’s a 1 hit cancel there’s not any time to hit confirm that you have to commit. There are hard counters to sereena like raiden and Tanya who can get full combos off of sereena boomerangs if they duck them coming back
Why not use Kung Lao with Sub Zero? He can do most of what Goro can do and you can combo off throws with him.
Clone is almost useless. Its punishable on reaction with an armored move. Ex clone cost 2 bars and is actually useless. His damage was overly nerfed. Hes "50/50" is reactable. Even online with bad connection. Im dont even play sub and i feel for his players. Baraka with the right assist stays safe, does crazy chip damage, and can two touch you. Lei mei goes from low teir to possible top 10. Sub gets... to stay safe on his "mix up". U forget that theres still part of the game called the nuetral. His iceball will never hit a good player. His slide is death on block. They slowed down his mid. Clone is all but usless. And then when he touches u he has to spend all his resources to do any sort of meaningful damage. Otherwise u gatta touch the opponent twice as many times as they have to touch you. And he doesnt have the tools to pull that off. Sorry but this video is really outta touch.
His overhead mix up is reactable... if you're Sonicfox.
I'm in masters currently, am still yet to see a single person react to it other than just straight up guessing it. His other combo starter is his low which gets around 34% with Sonya.
With his low starter and overhead it's very easy to 3 touch someone, they literally have to guess and if they guess wrong, bam a third of their health is gone.
@Duncle0 sonic is not the only one that can react to it. Lol. I'm not perfect with it but if I don't see the low I stand. Seems to work fine for me. Regardless of what u or I think, 16 frames is what's considered the average of human reactions. So anything that 16 frames or more, most people should be able to react to it. Subs overhead is 24 frames. So its not even debateable
@@prsuave420 That isn't reacting to it. That's guessing it dumbass.
If the average person could react to it, my record wouldn't be double positive in KL.
@@Duncle0 nobody plays sub so he’s a matchup nightmare for scrubs rn. Let’s say by the end of October if his B2 is still 24 frames, I don’t know if anyone in KL GM n above is getting hit by that shit……24 frames is way more than enough for a person to react to when every1 understands the sub matchup (n that goes for alot of characters like JC too, his pressure won’t b so much for a lot of players as they play more)
@calebstevens9446 exactly. I dont have any trouble with either match up. If I loose once to a character I lab their options. Johnny and sub haven't given me trouble since. Though I still think a really good johnny can still give people problems.
Calling tom brady
Sub zero was the easiest to win with because the roster wasn't out, the fact that sub zero can barely do a 40% with 3 meters, and barely does damage without meter at all is wild. Also his hits are very slow he gets outplayed by anybody easily because he's slow and predictable af. HE NEEDS A BUFF
The question is where the Overall Power level should be in mk1. Should the top Tiers be nerfed, or the fallen behind be Buffed?
I completely disagree with your assessment.
Okay
I prefer to use sub with frost just because she adds mix up to his overhead combos and provides more freeze options
All i ask is for his iceball to be used in his bnbs
I don’t understand why people are saying subzero is bad. Like at least he has mixups. Scorpion may have good kombos but has zero mixups. And don’t get me started on havik
average players can react to the overhead .
Is THAT what constitutes a “regular combo”?
Yeah they nerf the wrong person but i stay winning still
You can tell you have a barely basic grasp of MK 1 and Sub-Zero when you make a video like this. Sub-Zero is in pretty much everyone that matters bottom 3, most of which have him as the bottom 1.
He does not have a 50/50. A 50/50 is something that starts with or leads into from the same starter, a low or overhead which causes the enemy to have to guess on whether to crouch block or stand block. You can easily crouch block against him at all times and react to the overhead every single time. Your "online" excuse also does not apply as you can still react to it against people with 150+ ping.
His damage is low, but so are some others, so that's besides the point. His ice ball is worthless in most situations. His ice clone is not safe and can be reacted to every single time. His enhanced ice cline cost 2 bars and can also be reacted to every single time.
Almost all of his strings have gaps.
Quit clickbaiting for views. This type of video is why I never pay attention to your content when it comes into my feed.
You're not beating any good player in an ft10 with Sub-Zero. You know it, I know it, and anyone that has a basic grasp of the character knows it. Sub-Zero wins by the opponent either being a far worse player or completely unknowledgeable as to what Sub-Zero does.
As some others have pointed out, go watch pro players that know what they're talking about. Also, despite Tom Brady always clearly being baised when it comes to Sub-Zero, he definitely is not wrong and has an infinitely better grasp on the character.
You just gotta hope your main isn’t in the Beta, so you don’t get DVorah Syndrome.
True but still He is one of the worst Chars worse then Kitana, Tanya and other "low tiers" even if some like Kitana or Tanya are misunderstood and are better than people think!
This is an absolute load of bs. Play Sub Zero in high ranks and his weaknesses quickly get exposed:
- His B2 is 24 frames. Thats reactable and on high rank with good ping or offline you're never hitting anyone with it.
- ALL of his combo starting strings have gaps and can be armoured through. You can even use certain kameos to shut down his strings.
- The ice ball is so slow its reactable and the freeze duration is so low you can't punish anyone with it.
- The slide is so slow you cant punish anyone with it.
- The clone doesn't work correctly. Go in practice mode and see for yourself. You can walk into the clone, d1, 1 or 2 the clone without getting frozen.
- His ONLY mid is 15 frames which means you cannot punish moves the rest of the cast can.
P.s. Goro is trash for Sub. If your looking to make b2 safe you should cancel into Serena and at worst your getting a small poke. Also Kung Lao can work for an overhead low setup.
0:27
Going to GameStop to get games. I remember those days. Haven’t been to GameStop since I got a PC. Do a lot of people still go to GameStop? Like it must be enough to keep them in business but I really forgot that it exists. 😂
MK1 is terrible. Almost completely. Its that bad. I unlocked everything in less than a week. There's combos everywhere but it's somehow even more repetitive then MKX
I don’t think you are playing too many good opponents. His clone can be armored through. His strings have gaps everywhere. His damage is underwhelming. His overhead is super unsafe, his animation is clearly telling you is coming. And I want to emphasize how you didn’t talk about how bad his clone is. Is BAAAAAAD
first misconception sub zero mainly got damage nerf. there were 9 changes to this character by itself in the day one patch most of those changes were nerfs. am not surprised you don't recognize the changes as it seems you don't play with sub at all. you don't even bother to try him competitively to get the idea of how much he lacks compare to other characters before making this kinda video, that's why you assume he's grap could be extended in to combo using goro assist. and I don't know but i don't think it's right to say those who struggle to compete against most of the cast with sub don't know how to play with him I think it's a bit disrespectful.
Sub zero sucks because he has so many gaps on his strings. Watch Tom Brady video on him . Sub zero is lowest tier in the game
Go play Tanya, Havik or Li Mei and then tell me if Sub is still the worst.
Everyone has gaps not just sub
He has no 50 50s his overhead is so slow you can block on reaction
Sorry Dog but you are clueless about Sub zero's problems. How come you didn't even mention that his ice clone has such a long cooldown and recovery that even blind man can punish it with armour moves. How about that EX clone uses 2 bars for absolutely no benefit whatsoever. How about the fact that all of his strings have gaps between them which you can easily flawless block or armour through. EVERY SINGLE MOVE IN EVERY SINGLE STRING. Try to play sub zero against players who know how to counter him and they will blow you up.
24 frames is pretty reactable for his overhead, idk why you're saying he has real 50/50s.
You can make it safe with the right cameo
Plus, if they block it can lead to a full combo so it's usually very risky, with out some kinda of set up from a kameo.
On paper it's reactable, but while playing online it's a 50/50 if the connection isn't good. Depending on who I'm up against I can either react to it 100% of the time, or never
Actually start up is 24 frames. On hit it’s a lil over 30. Plus it’s really hard to time the cameo for a block confirm. I would not say that’s a valid excuse
He is just terrible at the game
The "mix up” overhead is actually reactable, now compare sub to say Barakas actually 50/50 it’s abysmal.
Reactable until you’re forced to play a wifi sub in ranked
@@ernestorodriguez7211 not really
He's not bad it's just everything he does can be done better by other characters and in most cases easier too, there's a reason one of the most beloved characters in the franchise has no more than 5 mains in top 1000
Tbf this sub zero isn’t loved much
@@Deathmare235bi haan is very much loved.
I’m one of those 5
@@Deathmare235 he’s the poster boy along with scorpion, he is very loved
@@calebstevens9446 everyone hates him
I think the funny thing is that subzero gets shafted but Raiden,raka,and other characters are doing ludicrous damage for less and gaining more
Yeah sub zero has 50/50s if you have the reaction time of an old man
Cope
Reactable overhead. There’s no 50/50.
you can cancel it into the slide
It's not a 50/50 you can fuzzy block the overhead
Sub zero isn’t bad. He’s just infinitely worse than everyone else. Good lows and overhead, decent mixes and pressure. Extremely punishable and predictable character, and some of the worse specials in the game. It’s the fact you need to hit 3-4 combos to kill when every other character only needs 1-2 off any touch
Infinitely worse than everyone else is pushing it
That’s what I’ve been tryna tell my guys. Comp wise he barely stands a chance. I’m blown cause I rock wit sub zero I’m still gonna play him but it sucks to know that even he’s better than mk11 everyone else is capable of so much more
He doesn’t have the lowest damage lol. He’s not even bottom 5 damage
@@TrueUnderDawgGamingwho are the top 5 lowest DMG?
@@nobody4732 Kitana and Havik literally need Kameos to break 30% while Tanya needs meter to break 30% along with a couple other character. The fact that Sub Zero gets meterless 30% from overhead and low starters is great. If you add Sareena then he is easily getting 40% which is also good. He doesn’t have godly damage but he’s got more tools than most characters
- Everyone else 250 dmg and fatal blow combo = 500 dmg..
- Subzero 250 dmg and fatal blow = 380 dmg...
Ok, here's the thing. Subzero is amazing however, you genuinely need to use every single thing in his arsenal to make him that good. However every single character is like 4 button hits to go to 50%. I notice this alot in MK 1, the harder to use characters have low damage compared to character that are easier to use and have high damage.. where's the balance..
I don't think he should have pre day one damage but jesus you can hit 290 dmg and then hit a fatal blow and he caps of at 380 damage. You telling me that is balanced when everyone else can caps at 500+ damage ? ... that makes no sense..his multiplier needs a buff because at this point its garbage. Or else the only other way to balance it is drop everyones multiplier so that damage outputs are similar..
Does that mean you cant use him ? Nah he is strong in the hands of player who understands and can execute him with perfection but that skill that NO ONE in this game requires to play therefore the outrage. I would make everyone like him, fine balance between skill and fun. Or buff him a little so you arent hitting a million buttons to simple put 300 damage
The problem I have is the armor gaps in pretty much all of his strings. 12, F12, F123, 212 all have gaps to armor though
He's also ignoring that opponents can punish him for doing ice klone seriously go watch mk Tom Brady to see all the ways to easily punish
@@julianmorgan79Everyone has a teleport?
sub zero doesnt have 50/50 his overhead is way too slow to be an actual 50/50, it is completely reactable, even online with 60ms ping. it is considerably slower than the AVERAGE human reaction time which is a 1/5 of a second or faster, and subzero overhead is 24 frames which is well over 1/3 of a second. maybe if youre in 150ping online you cant react but in tournament it will never open anyone up as a mixup because it isnt a mixup.
His Ice clone can be armored through by anything and with his recovery frames being so high they don't even have to guess, they can just see you throw it and react for a punish, and the enhanced version that costs 2 bars is still unsafe as most Kameos can punish it on reaction still. I think he needed a nerf from the beta but i think they went a bit overboard when you have characters who can spend one bar and a kameo for 50%. Not to mention they also slowed everything down, the overhead IS react-able, block low and react to the overhead
The problem with his damage isn’t that it’s bad, it’s that it’s bad compared to everyone else. Scorpion has a meterless combo that deals more damage than any sub zero combo you did in this video. Along with that, you didn’t mention that sbubby can’t jail at all. You can armor through the 3rd, and even 2nd hit of all of his strings. And the overhead you mentioned is pretty slow. You’re not hitting that overhead on anyone unless their closing their eyes. Along with that the ice ball is so god damn useless. If your character has a projectile god forbid a fast one, you can use it on reaction and hit him before he can convert off of it. And the ice Klone is really not that good. It’s out for 1 second. So you’re only counter zoning for 1 second. And the worst part, that you couldn’t even hide in that video, is that he gets less damage for using meter. And you keep saying that sbubby isn’t a damage dealer, but in mkx, where you said it started that trend, he dealt 51% with full resources. In mk1 he gets 40% for using full resources. Meanwhile characters like scorpion, raiden, kenshi, and Baraka are getting 50% with 1 meter. If anything you’re trying your hardest to not mention what’s bad about the character. And you keep saying he has 50/50s but you also fail to mention that he only has 1 overhead not tied to a string. And it’s 24 frames. And his other overhead can be armored through, after the first hit, you won’t even get the overhead out. I don’t doubt that you’re not knowledgeable on this subject. But you’re failing to talk about the real problems with this character
also I believe If u turn frame data on the overhead on hit actually comes out to a little over 30 frames. Ppl are crazy for thinking he’s broke in beta. Maybe the dmg was too much but still. Not “broken”
@@Aoimusha nah for sure and over time I got used to sub and rarely lost to him. I think I meant more so the dmg he gets off of the mixups. Mind u that’s when he had mixups but then the change the frames and it’s no longer 50/50. I’ll be happy if he just gets his iceclone and frames back to normal. If they ever do fix him I’ll gladly take the dmg buff too but I don’t see them fixing him
Facts on all of this. Its not even just his damage. His basic neutral game is bad in general. All of his 3 hit strings are terrible and lead to nothing. They dont launch or bounce. Some of his move are also redundant. Example: His 2,1,2 string does the same thin as his 1,2,2. Its the same with string 4,4 and b, 3,4 and all of these strings lead to...nothing. No bounce...no launch...no combo extention. This version of sub was poorly designed from the very fundentals.
You can get 46% - 47% with Sonya. Goro isn't as good imo
@@DrillSgtMason3,4 leads to 30% metreless. Bad, fair, but don't lie
While yes his damage isn't exactly terrible, it is worse than majority of the other cast when they can get 40% for one bar and he barely hits 30% for the same meter. His damage is not the only bad part about him. Ice clone is supposed to be a "safe escape" move and it's not. Ice clone can easily be reacted to and punished. Even ex ice clone is still easily reactable and punishable and it costs 2 whole bars. Also sub physically cannot jail people. All of his strings have 2 different gaps that you can armour through and sub can do literally nothing to stop that. If he tries to bait it, he gives up his turn completely. He also does not have a true 50/50. The overhead is easily reactable even online because of how slow it is, and every single "mix" he has is unsafe. Sub Zero really needs buffs to bring him in line with the rest of the cast
The ice klone is guaranteed on jumpins
@@Tevron_ no matter when you do ice clone, there is a way to punish it
@@JokerAnjero When an opponent forward jumps, you can ice klone on reaction, then counter punish.
@@Tevron_ sure. But that doesn't change anything else I've said above
@@JokerAnjero He can get 400 - 415 damage with Sarena with no bar of meter. On top of that he has good footsies with his normals. Just throw out standing 2's as it safe, back 4's, move back and db2 klone charge for space control. 2,1 to whiff punish into bnb. I'm not having any problems with the character compared to shao.
That overhead is very react able unless it’s laggy idk what you’re on about w this 50/50 nonsense
Dude watch the video before you criticize. That overhead is unsafe yes, but you clearly missed that part where Goro can help you that!
@@wolfhunterplays3954 Read a comment before you reply to it, i didn’t say anything about it being unsafe i said it’s reactable
@@thegamerword.9739you did say it’s reactable which is very true, but you also said “I don’t know what you’re on about with this 50/50 nonsense”. That’s where Goro comes in. He can help with that, Frost can too. In my opinion, I think Goro’s better though, because Frost can’t make that overhead plus! Also, I literally just made a Raiden rage quit with that combo, so thank you TrueUnderdawg!!!
@@wolfhunterplays3954I think he means as far as combo starters go the skull is the only over head he's got and if you pop Goro you're not getting that combo.
@@infamous-riv3ra36by itself, yes it is easily reactable and unsafe. As far as Goro goes, you can actually still get a combo on hit, a small one in comparison to the full thing, but a combo nonetheless.
He doesn't have as much 50/50 as people keep pushing. He only has one overhead that can extend into a combo without the use of specific cameos or bars. That one overhead only works on scared opponents or opponents who can only block low. The majority of players you meet do not get hit by it. If you miss it, you can special out of it, but that requires you to absolutely know your opponent is going to block it because the window to special out of it is smaller than the flawless block window. Seriously, if the opponent blocks it, then it's too late to react and special out of. If you try to mix up low, the enemy can quickly block low or just armoring through the last hit. Literally had someone tea-bagging my last hit, going low too late and still getting the block off on multiple occasions. Other times, they just interrupt my last hit. Not to mention, all his attacks that end a combo string cannot combo into a special unless you use a cameo. 90% of the roster can combo into a special from any hit to get a free 300+ damage combo while Sub-zero can only deal like 70-90. So I'd argue Sub-zero has the bottom 3 50/50 game.
Ice clone only works against players who are running on jet-fuel and red bull. Most players are not getting hit by it. in fact, most players are punishing it.
His glacial dive kick is mid. Once you've seen it once, it's only working twice at best. The first for the kick and the second for the light jab after missing the kick which can still be punished.
His long-range game is weak asl. Ice slide is EXTREMELY predictable and is as equally punishable. You're better off slowly dashing forward unless you know your opponent likes throwing stuff or Kenshi when he pulls his sword out. His ice ball is slow asl. Most of the time, if the enemy is attacking long, you're getting hit and they're blocking by the time your ice ball is going across the screen.
Playing sub zero is like a minimum wage job, you do alot for little reward
Yeah
you dont even play this game
your sub is great in training mode
try this vs a good player and come back saying the same
they need to nerf the 50% 1 bar characters not buff sub zero
Lmao suz zero sucks dude, don't try to make excuses. Theres a reason I haven't seen no sub zero on ranked. And nope you did all hos combos there, none other more damaging
Ok. Sub Zero isn't bad. It's just that every single other characters is better.
I can name 5 right now who are worse.
@@Duncle0 Please do.
@@nellothetiger8654 Tanya, Havik, Li Mei, Nitara, General Shao. Can name some more if you'd like.
@@Duncle0 Your very personal, subjective opinion is very interesting but no, you don't have to name more. lol
@@nellothetiger8654 Those 5 are typically at the very bottom of the best player's tier lists, so it's not a personal opinion.
Fun Fact, Diff's tier list has Sub in the top 10.
"he's not bad just use goro" 😂
It's not that Sub-Zero is bad, it's that the really good characters in this game are fucked up lol
The Sub-Zero nerfs really make me wonder what NRS wants with this game though. If they want lower damage, why didn't they nerf all the other damage? I don't really get it lol
Disagree he needs to be buffed his output is significantly different when his counterparts. Ice Klone duration. I think 3 of his strings have gas. His mid got out to 15 instead of 12, probably more. He needs a buff BAD
The Reason why people are mad is because , almost every character can do 40 + damage . Why can Raiden and not Sub Zero ? and its true , but still I main Sub Zero and he is pretty darn good ;)
mk games are always unbalanced , and if ur a good player you can still win with the worst character
@bill5479 who wants to put more effort for what other people get with less
@@imasavage95perfectly put
@@imasavage95 you're a very simple person aren't you sir
With sub zero my main yes he needs a buff. But with this character you play more mind games than usual. It's either your opponent calls it right or not and get punished. His pokes are pretty good so I normally follow it up with mix ups that I can cancel out of or commit. You have to be constantly unpredictable or your gonna get punished by the top tier characters. And be mindful with the ice clone while playing characters that can teleport because that move got too nerfed.
U pretty good w him? I’m trying to to find the max damage combos
Sorry, but b2 is slow AF so it's not a real 50/50.
All of his moves are react-able, b3,4 is slow. Standing 3,4 is slow. Forward 2,2 is a good string by itself but you can’t open people up with it when the only options after using it are both lows in deadly vapor and ice slide. Ice ball is practically unusable in this game and ice clone can hit through on activation because of how fucking slow it is.
@@temp-td2uk Yeah, Sub has so many problems it's not even funny. Hope they'll fix him in the future.
Bro, you completely forget that characters in this game on average have the potential to delete half of your health bar off of one combo alone. You’re right that 30% is good, but that’s only if you isolate that number. If you compare that number to the numbers of literally any other character, that’s horrendously low. In a game as broken and stupid as MK1, 30% from one combo is not good. It may have been good in the past, but now? That shit won’t fly
The overhead is 24 frames on start up… it’s barely a 50/50 because of how easy it is to react
The thing is, its the way he plays. Clones needs to be extended cuz thats his play style
Sub Zero is probably a herald of damage nerfs coming to the rest of the characters.
I only think his overhead is slow af, it’s very easy to react to
Sub is bottom tier but hes also B tier
I think he'd be fine in a game where baraka and Raiden aren't walking around. Raiden has a safe 50/50 for 50 percent. Sub has a unsafe 50/50 for 32 maybe. I guess what I'm saying is nerf Raiden
You didnt even talk at all about the slow start up on all his moves. You just spent 8 mins talking about damage😂😂😂 this analysis is shallow as hell.
It’s not a mixup if it’s seeable lol. That’s not a guess. Also every major useful string of his has a gap. You may fuck up wi-fi warriors but that’s not working in any offline tournament against half decent players. Sub isn’t trash but he’s definitely gimped.
Agreed most people in here are the wifi warriors so he’s not bad by those standards. Attending a tournament would definitely recommend having a 2nd pocket character to be safe
I think they should buff his damage a bit more. How awesome would it be for beta damage but im willing to meet in the middle.
I am okay with low damage and wall carry and the 50/50 too but he definitely could a few better frames like scorpion d1 plus 5 on block. How ever sub zero is punishable if he uses ice clone and the B2 is to reactable they should make it a tiny bit faster for make the 50/50 working like a 50/50 .
Sub-Zero is bottom one bro. Gaps all over the place, trash frames, reactable overhead, ice clone is punishable ON REACTION by 90% on the cast.
You keep saying “50/50”. This isn’t a 50/50. The overhead is damn near 30 frames. My grandma is reacting to that. Sub-Zero has bad neutral, bad frames, bad combo damage, no staggers, and no mix ups. Trash character.
All I really want is for his f1 mid to be slightly faster (15 frames is really annoying to work around, 11 or 12 would be better) and for Deadly Vapors scaling to be reduced so he has more reason to spend meter on combos.
I picked up Liu Kang and was very confused on why his spinning kick isn't his best combo ender. But after some practice i found that the kick is often better when you don't want to use the metere but the dragon is better when you do. It's really fun to discover different ways to play characters in this game
The short flame teleport also has a unique property that allows you to jump immediately after you hit the EX version, I forgot if it has to be a punish but there’s unexplored territory in that area for me
@@jaidora yeah. It not only can be canceled into jump but you are also untochable when doing the ex which makes it a very good anti-air. It also can combo off of your F1,4. I like the combo because i then do air 2,1 into Sonya into air 1,2 into air fire ball. Combo looks good and does 30%. Maybe you can extend it if you do Sonya again or instead of jumping the second time just stay grounded but i didn't really feel the need to do more damage so far.
It’s not a 50/50 its absolutely reactable, his specials are below average, his damage is below average, his screen control is below average, his projectile below average, has poor conversions, and NEEDS kameo because he gets punished by nearly everything due to poor frame data. He’s easily one of the worse in the game, only saved from unplaybility by kameo’s like goro, or kano.
do you even play this game? try subzero online ft5 vs good players and then come back and make this video again
This video is whack bro. Sure, Subzero has a few options but literally every other character can do what he does but better/safer with more damage.
No one's downplaying sub zero. Sub has to work harder for his gameplan than any other character in the game and that is a fact.
He is playing a completely different game than everyone else is. Every single other character feels like their full potential has been unleashed.
Even other perceived low tier characters like nitara and kitana can be absolutely cracked but sub's ceiling under perfect conditions and an ok to bad opponent is still mid at best.
He NEEDS a buff. He feels like he is chained while every other character has been let loose entirely.
He is still a good character on paper but this is mk1. Paper doesn't matter.
Not saying sub has to be god tier either but the devs need to buff him. Creators are supposed to be pushing for the buff and granted most are, but i can see a vid like this stopping a developer or maybe making them more cautious about buffing sub and that doesn't help.
Because the devs weren't "cautious" when designing characters like raiden or johnny or kenshi or baraka or mileena so why should they be for sub or any other character besides the "famous five".
Ideally i think every sub main would love to see that turn into the "sinister six" with sub being the sixth member. But the buffs do not have to go that far.
Btw i am fairly neutral in this, my favorite mk character is sub, but i am maining reiko and liu and even if they buff sub, i doubt that will change who i main. So no bias here.
ur joking rn bro
literally mk tom brady proved he had no 50/50s 💀