"panel cut slightly smaller, just to make life easier"... I didn't hear that the first time I attempted this door. Listen to him, he is right it makes life MUCH easier.
Just finished making 4 doors for some cabinets using this method. Made them out of solid wood (18mm by 44mm boards for the frame, 7mm tongue and groove cladding for the backing). Don't have a router, so cut the grooves on the table saw (that took a bit of thought!). Worked really well. Thanks Peter.
Howard Hagadorn Wow, thanks! I've been woodworking for 18 years myself, and have made panel doors every conceivable way, and this is by far the easiest I've found. Glad I made the video, and great to hear you found it useful! P
The only person I've seen do that before is me. I'm 60 and started using this method many years ago. I can't remember how or why I came up with it. My father was a lifelong cabinet maker and he didn't use it. Built cabinets for my son's kitchen 2 1/2 years ago. Shaker doors on the bottoms and glass pane doors on the top. Same technique on the rails & stiles but with a rebate on the inside to receive the glass. Used small offset hold down clips to secure the glass in place. Always been the easiest way for me. Through all the years I've never seen anyone else use this method until now.
Watching after the restoration couple video on shaker doors as per UA-cam's sidebar! Proof that even after 3 years your older content will still be watched! Thumbs up, I see some true pro clues to your profession here, flip down trap saw. Cover up of router bit hole for dust extraction and timber butted up to stop stripping out. It's clear to see you put a lot of thought into your work Peter. I must say though you look younger in your current videos than you do here! Would would you put that down to ha?!
Hi Peter, sorry to bother you with this question, you might have already answered it or not. What is the common width for stiles and rails for shaker doors like these. Thanks for your videos. Greetings from Argentina.
Hi Juan Pablo. I start at around 80mm, but have gone as narrow as 60 and as wide as 100. Bottom rail on taller doors are usually anywhere from 120 - 150mm, though there’s nothing set in stone - just whatever looks right. 👍👍
Thanks to your simple build method I have just finished making 18 MDF doors with a hardboard panel insert. Of all the information I have taken from your video the "loose tenon" is what make the whole process so fast and simple, I can set my router once for every cut and leave it! No bit changes and no trying to find that exact setting again for the same set of doors. My doors included sizes from 23 inches tall to 70 inches tall, the only process I had to add for the longer doors was to extend my top drawer under my bench, lay the door on it and check the straight side of my bench against the length of the door, I do this on both the first stile and then when I'm happy I also do it on the 2nd stile. I check this width with a tape measure before I proceed, this has saved me a lot of stress with trying to square up a big door after full assembly with glue starting to set. I have also changed to Titebond III for the longer working time. I plan to make a video making sure to credit you for your tenon idea.
Hi Greg, and thanks so much for taking the time to comment! Really pleased to hear how your doors went - great stuff - and glad that this old video helped! Just to be clear though, the ‘loose tenon’ method of making doors this way is as old as the hills - I’m just delighted to have been able to bring it to a few more people. 👍👍
I've now watched more then a few shaker style door videos, and I have to honestly say yours is the simplest and most cost effective. The floating tenon idea made from the same stock as the panel, great idea. No special equipment or expensive power tools to purchase. Great technique and video. One question the router bit you used to cut the slot, same thickness as the panel?
Thanks! This was my first UA-cam video, so pleased to see it’s still useful 👍👍. The slot cutter is slightly thicker than the panel - 1/4” vs 6mm - as this gives a little wiggle-room during assembly - and wiggle-room during a glue-up is always welcome 👍👍
Hi Peter, when I first watched this I wondered why you didn’t 'stop the grooves in the styles and why you routed a groove in the short edge of the rail. It's just dawned on me that the loose tenons actually add an increased gluing surface and do away with the need to use pocket screws or whatever to strengthen the butt joints. Was that the plan?
@@10MinuteWorkshop Having just made 8 doors using regular tenons I now understand why you make your doors this way. I'm definitely going to do it this way next time.
Thank you Peter. Absolutely wonderful video and carpentry techniques. Subscribed! How would you adapt this for a larger door - say a 2 meter by 45cm wardrobe door? Still strong enough without any screws?
Quick question out of curiosity: what makes this preferable to a full tongue and groove style joint? I guess if you're using MDF, maybe loose tenons are stronger? If you used wood, would a tongue and groove joint make more sense (especially if you are finishing with stain/clear coat and not painting)?
Interesting concept using loose tenons, never seen it done before. What if you were using grained wood and wanted to make floating panels? would the joints be strong enough?
Hi Peter, I have a few questions if you don’t mind . - Do 22mm thick doors work ok with 18 mm carcasses on a concealed overlay hinge ? - Would this method be ok for larger wardrobe doors ? - when glueing up, do you think you could get away with some small gun pins fired through the rail, style and floating tenon when clamped up , so you can release them straight away. I have about 30 to make 🤦 Thanks
Old vid! Yes, I found 22mm to be better for bigger doors, and yes, the method works well for large eg wardrobe doors too. And yes, if you need to make the best use of fewer clamps then pinning the loose tenons will work, it’s just an added step to fill the holes later. 👍
Hi Peter. Great video as always. I’ve got to make some doors for some wardobes im building. I want to use this technique but I have 25mm tulip wood for the styles and rails and was going to use 6mm panel as my insert like you have but my doors are bigger. About 1.8m by 590mm. I was told that the 6mm would make it to films and was advised to use 12mm instead. Just wanted to get your thoughts as I’m struggling to find a cutter that will give me the 12.5/12.7mm cut out I need for the 12mm. Thank you
Thanks! Wow, my first ever video, still getting views and questions, lol! Pretty much every door I’ve ever made had a 6mm panel, and had no complaints from customers. You can go thicker if you want, but as you’ve found you’ll struggle to get a 12mm groover so you’ll be into a few passes to make it up. 👍
Can I ask, is there a set size for the gap between to door and the carcass on an inset door project? ..... eg carcass opening 500mm, door width 497mm ? Thank you for any help you can offer.
I try to keep around a 2mm gap between everything - anything less than 1.5mm (1/16th") and you risk the doors binding on a 22mm door, and anything getting up to, or bigger than 3mm (1/8th") looks gappy. So yes, a single inset door in a 500mm carcass 496/497 depending on thickness. 👍
Hi Peter. What size mdf are you using here? Is it 18mm with 6mm panel? If so what size do you recommend for taller doors where usually a centre rail is put in? If a centre rail is put in I guess you just do it as you have but two panels are required and the centre will be purely held from the two panels butting to it? Thanks
Old vid! Yes, 18/6mm, but I switched to 22/6 or 22/9 for larger doors. Check out any of my furniture build playlists for lots of videos on the topic. 👍
Dear Mr. Millard Can you please stop showing the rest of the world how easy it is to do cabinetry. Sir you are going to put me out of a job. Oh wait, I have a job because there are people out there who don't have the time to do it themselves. Please teach on. Seriously you do make it look to easy. 👍
Hi Peter, how do you size your door in relation with the carcass. I mean say single carcass is 5 or 6 mm wider the singe door? Is this about right? And how about double door?
Hi Pablo. I usually leave a couple of mm either side, so a single door will be ~4mm narrower than the carcass, but a double will be ~6mm narrower (both doors) than the carcass. 👍
Could someone explain what the loose tenons do? Why didn't Peter just not route all the way down to the end of the rails and leave it solid? Is it an additional strength join for the sides and top/bottom perhaps? Sorry if dumb question, only just starting out at woodwork.
When you’re making a door you need some way to fix the rails and stiles together - simply butt jointing them with glue won’t be strong enough. A traditional mortise and tenon shapes the end of the rail to fit into a corresponding mortise in the stile, whereas a loose or floating tenon does the same thing, but into a mortise in both the rail and stile. In this method the mortise is created by extending the panel groove around the end of the rail, and the full,height of the stile, with the loose tenon made from the same panel material for convenience. It’s a simple, easy way to joint the rail and stile of a panel door together. There’s an updated version of this video here btw - ua-cam.com/video/jwGvYsvdCg4/v-deo.html Same information, but with better production values. 👍
Peter, how well did your paint job came out on the edge of the door, I know MDF is very absorbent and I was wondering if you had to prime the wood twice or was it enough just once before painting. Thanks.
It comes out very well - I’ve never had a problem painting the edges of MDF, and honestly can’t believe the fuss some people make about it on UA-cam. I did a 7-part series on painting and finishing, starts at video #029. Short version; start with a decent quality MR MDF. Sand the cut edges to P320. Primer/undercoat once and let it dry. De-nib all around, with particular attention to the cut edges, and primer/undercoat them again. Denib when dry, and apply a minimum of 2 topcoats, de-nibbled in between. That’s it. 👍👍
@@Jessica-to8um a shame he never answered you. Nibs are pimples in paint caused by dust settling in it while it dries. You want to sand between coats. Even if you don't have nibs sanding causes paint to level out better. Don't know why. Just know that's how it is. So my guess is he was probably referring to sanding. Which is a critical aspect as far as fine finishing goes. You're not going to get a good paint job if you don't sand. That's how it is.
Yay! My first youtube video, still getting views and questions nine years on, lol! No, no issues at all - the panel is the same as the rails and stiles, so there's no movement to be concerned about. 👍
Hi Peter do you know how they get the groove in the rail style joint (v groove I think ) in these type of doors like the bnq/Wickes oak shaker doors have ? Thanks
Hi Talab. Yes, it’s pretty common - you just run each rail & stoke against a v-groove bit before you make the joint, so you effectively chamfer each edge, so when they abut you get a ‘v’ shape 👍👍
I want his workshop in my garage ! Great vid , that's how you do it people . If you haven't got all these tools though , just cut one peace to the size of your door then cut your styles and rail and stick them on top flush to the edge , your painting them anyway so who's gonna know . I'm not knocking this guy at all he's showing very well how it should be done .
Thanks for reply , I watch #019 , really good and detailed explination of the problems that would occur if done ' the quicker way ' my main reson for suggesting this method is for people like me who don't do much of this type of thing so hence don't have the tools in a purpose built workshop . But hope people concidering the quick way will watch this video and be prepared for the problems . Great vids once again . Keep up the good work
2. The style of door is very similar to a Shaker style however it has a framed border to imitate a framed cabinet. I have watched your video and would think that your method would be great but as the outer frame will be approx 105mm will it remain stable and would you suggest the frame is made and panel inserted prior to the frame groove being routered. Also do you think it would be difficult to paint this groove effectively. the painting questions also remains with the doors in respect of Priming and finish coat although I would intend to fully construct the door before undertaking any Painting. The majority of these doors are pretty standard with the exception of the Pantry Doors which I intend to utilise 2 doors for and simply join the doors with a steel back plate. Do you feel that 18mm MR MDF is adequate or would you suggest 22mm. And what would you suggest the recessed panel thickness be ? Many thanks for and advise you could offer
Hi Peter, grateful for a bit of advice please. I’m building a storage unit and the doors will be 150cm tall, will I need to put a centre rail in or would 2 rails suffice? I’ll be using 18mm MR MDF, thanks again for all the Vids, I’m guessing you will be reviewing the new Benchdogs Ultimate MFT table, I look forward to that one! Barry
Hi Barry. 1500mm is right on the cusp of where I’d want to start adding in a mid rail. I think I’d check the aesthetics, see how it looks with and without. I generally used 22mm for rails and stiles on bigger doors, just fyi. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop thanks Peter, appreciate your time. I knocked one up today in 18mm using dominoes and 3 rails, easy to make and turned out well. Agree thicker material would be better, fingers crossed these don’t warp!! Thanks again for your reply 👍
I've found the easiest way to make MDF doors in this style is to start with 1/2" sheet of MDF (cut to the exact door size). Then cut 1/4" MDF in strips to glue on the top as the stiles and rails. I use contact adhesive so there's no clamping involved. Once sanded, and painted, it looks great. With this method, you only need a table saw/track saw to make the door. No need to cut dados with a router. No need for gluing in tenons.
@@10MinuteWorkshop I actually don't disagree with anything in that video (if doing it like you did). Using Barge Contact Cement eliminates the need for nails/glue/clamps. Using Euro Hinges makes hinge problem go away. Usually I make the doors a tiny bit oversized, and then once built, I take off a 1/64 on each side at the table saw. Makes for a perfect door - super easy.
Great video Peter. I am a newbie and currently learning to attempt to update my kitchen cabinet door as well. I have 2 questions if I may. First, how dusty is MDF? I was gonna paint the cabinets anyway but so far I was focusing on making the doors with 3\4 Poplar styles and Rails and 1\4 MDF or plywood insert until I sow your video. Q2- If working with 100% MDF could I just use the Tongue and Groove cutting on the table router? or would the Tongue expose the soft middle part of the MDF and that is why you went with the loose tenants? Thank you
Don't know if you still need to know. But MDF is probably the dustiest material to work with. The dust is super-fine. Not too bad though if your in a shop. Keep in mind, once this wood glue dries after being clamped properly, the strength in the joint is incredible. Going all MDF for the stiles and rails should be just fine vs poplar. Poplar will look a bit crisper if you want that look, but cabinet doors don't get a lot of sharp impact.
It's very dusty ALWAYS WEAR A DECENT MASK even if your just doing a small job . I'm city and guilds qualified and I remember from my college days being told mdf is the worst wood dust to breath in .
Hi Peter, I’m new to the channel and really enjoy and appreciate your content. Quick questions re your shaker doors please. Your video suggest 22mm MDF for rails and styles, but would 18mm suffice? Second question, when you offset your groove for the back panel, is the groove closer to the front of the door or back? I don’t recall you mentioning anything when assembling the door! Thanks!
Hi. 18mm is fine for smaller doors; I switched to 22mm after I had some issues with larger wardrobe doors bowing; switching to 22 stopped that, but obvs. you can’t have a mix of 18 & 22 thicknesses, so I standardised on 22mm. But I made hundreds of doors in 18mm before then! Re the groove, in an 18mm door I’d make it a centred 6mm panel, so 6/6/6/. In 22mm I’d do 6/6/8 with the 6 facing out for a regular shaker door, and the 8 facing out for a ‘Victorian’ ie with a moulding applied. Hope that makes sense! P
Hi Peter, I've designed an alcove built-in with a double cabinet at the base. I like the traditional look of inset shaker doors i.e. in a face frame with butt hinges. do you have any experience with this and any advice? can I use 18mm mdf for the face frame? Also worried about the stability of the hinge screws and whether they'll work loose in the Mdf? Thanks
Hi. I don't do much with face frames right now - they seem to have fallen out of favour a bit here - but when I do I run the face-frame flush with the inside of the cabinet carcass, then return it back & scribe to the chimney-breast, wall, or whatever. This also covers up any gap around the carcass. I've put screws into the 'end grain' of MDF before and haven't had any problems (long, skinny screws, with a pilot hole and a dab of glue) but I'd be a bit leery of doing it in 18mm - I think you'll have more issues with the MDF splitting than anything else. Would these be flush doors, or shaker-style panel doors? Just thinking of the weight... The other trick I do with alcove units is to make the back of the bookcase slightly long, so it overhangs the carcass top at the back, then you just pull the bookcase forwards to get a nice snug fit. Finish off with a face-frame around the bookcase to hide any gaps. HTH! P 👍
Hi Peter! Been watching all your videos more than once! Ive just ordered the same grooving bit and arbor. Can uou tell me if your using a bearing with it? If so is there an order to the spacers,washers,bearings? Any saftey advice? Look forward to reply. Thanks.
Your microphone and camera set up have come a long way from here Peter 👍🏼😂 been following your from your first few months and always tell other joiners about this video 👍🏼
Hi and thanks! It’s an off-the-shelf Festool MFT or Multi-function table & the hinged rail comes as standard. I haven’t done a video about it as there are loads on UA-cam already, if you search for it by name. 👍
It seems like it would be really easy to make one with plywood and a hinge. I might give it a try, festool is way over priced. I don't even have to look it up to know it probaby costs as much as a table saw.
Great video, made it look simple and easy to have a go at. Quick question, why do you need the loose tenons? Could you cut the grooves in the rails and stile in such a way that they weren’t necessary? IE not the full length of the stiles? Is it just quicker and easier this way?
@@10MinuteWorkshop thanks for the speedy reply Peter. I’ve seen it done with rails joined by tenon into the stiles but like you say that’s more cuts and setups on the router. Also like that you can prep stiles and cut them to length after the fact. Thanks for sharing, it’s great to see the different ways things can be done.
Peter - just to say thank you, I decided to try this method but I have used oak as the frame with a plywood panel. It works beautifully, I don't have a router table so had to cut the slots with a handheld router but they have come out beautifully and very strong with a deep groove and wide tenons. Thanks again - I didn't know about this method and it makes very neat, strong doors.
Hey Peter, loving these videos, I'm making some shaker doors and 'tooling-up' for the process. I have a router and table but never used a groove cutter. Going onto Wealden as you suggest I've gone for the 6.35 bit and a 1/2 inch, 8mm Arbor. Question: do I need a guide bearing in addition to these when using a fence and table or are these only for 'hand-routing'. Thanks in advance. Dave
Hello Peter, couple of quick questions please. When you make your MDF shaker doors, how do you treat them before painting? Do you apply MDF sealer, undercoat then the actual coat? Same question if your making end boards for a kitchen cabinet? I’m just a bit concerned if I cut an end board, the base of it will be on the floor so was wondering the best way to seal it to prevent any moisture penetrating the MDF. Many thanks.
I only use MR (moisture Resistant) MDF so it's less of an issue, but generally I don't do anything other than apply a couple of coats of primer/undercoat, followed by a couple of coats of topcoat - all water-based acrylic. If I know there's going to be ground contact with something that's potentially damp eg bathroom floor, then I'd probably use a wood hardener first, and let that fully soak in before painting. I did a 6-part painting & finishing series starting video #029 that may be worth a look, or an 8-part 'playing at spraying' series that covered the same process if you're planning to spray. HTH P
A word of caution. Wearing gloves around machinery is not to be advised. In the scenario where you get a cut, or a severance it means the surgeon has to spend time extracting the threads form the glove out of the wound.
Thanks! It's a heavy duty groover from Wealden Tools - goo.gl/Ht1TU4 If you check any of my raised panel doors video, or any video after, there's a full gear list in the description. HTH, Peter
Absolutely love your videos. They gave me the push to treat myself to a woodshop for my 30th 😂. I do have a quick question about using MR MDF in kitchen cabinets. What is your prefered method for finishing rhe inside - do you paint or veneer?
I'm planning to do this with 18mm plywood for the frame and 6mm plywood for the panel. My concern is the 18mm ply end will be exposing around the panel. Do you have any advice how to cover that? Edge banding cannot be applied reliably there.
+soosai steven Will they be painted or stained/lacquered? If the latter, there's not much you can do, other than try applying the edgebanding before running the groove. If painted, then careful rubbing down will minimise the 'layers' of the Ply. Check out my 'painting and finishing' series for more on this. 👍
Hi Peter. I know this is an old video but I frequently use it as a reference for building my panel doors. I'm in the process of buying the groover and arbour from your links. My question is what size bearing did you use on the arbour or did you just use your fence to set the depth? I know it's a few years ago but if you could shed some light I'd be eternally grateful.
Wow, my first ever UA-cam video! Couldn’t tell you the bearing size I’m sorry - it came with the arbor I think? From memory I t gives a 22mm depth of cut, but I mostly use the fence tbh. 👍👍
Hahahahhaha! Dude, you have literally made this father's day, lol! Must show this to my wife - actually, I may have this printed and framed 😂And thank you 😁
Thanks for a very informative tutorial. From your experience what's the biggest size door you could construct with this method, was considering a large wardrobe door. Thanks again
Can't find a groove bit that is 3/4" deep anywhere.. I have done this style door using your method with a half inch deep groove and it came out great! I am worried about premature wear or failure because I need a deeper groove for more surface contact for the glue. Where can I find this?
Hi Peter, Thank you for the video I am starting to get more aspirational with my DIY but do not have all the usual workshop kit. I am going to give the shaker style doors a go but only have a handheld palm router (although it has a plunge attachment, etc.). I have not used the router much, do you thing this will do the job? Or is it the case that if don’t have a router table I should be doing the plant on rails and style 6mm onto a 15mm sheets you demo in your other doors video? Keep up the great work. I subscribed this morning.
Hi and welcome. No, I’m afraid I wouldn’t recommend any hand-held router for this kind of groove cutting, and especially not a palm router as they tend not to have enough of a base to keep it steady and safe. You’re probably better planting-on 6mm rails and stiles over a 12mm board (or 15mm if you can source it) and paying particular attention to the edges when glueing up 👍👍
Wow I was not expecting a reply so quickly. I’ll give the plant on ones a go and eye up a router table for the future. Thanks for the feedback, it is very much appreciated.
If you haven't got the tools , there is an easier way . Just cut a piece to the exact size of your door , then cut your styles and rails and stick them on top flush to your edges . And paint , will look exactly the same .
Peter the festool setup you have as a saw bench with the hinged rail - how do you do this? Is it something bespoke or can you buy off the shelf? Just setting up my own workshop for some DIY projects and love the look of this setup. Cheers Dave
Dave Fellick It's a totally off the shelf solution from Festool, they call it a Multi Function Table, or MFT; the current version is the MFT-3 - not cheap, I'm afraid, but a very useful solution, especially for a small workshop!
In Belgium, at least in my region, I cannot get 6 mm mr-mdf, only 9 mm. Will a 9 mm groove weaken the rails and styles too much? If so, I'll need to use 6 mm normal mdf? Thanks!
No, a 9mm panel in a 22mm rail/stile makes for a nice solid door. If you’re using 18mm for rails/stiles then go for regular 6mm MDF. The most benefit from MR MDF is on the cut edges, rather than the face, so a regular MDF panel will usually do fine as the edges are enclosed. 👍
Hi Peter. Love the videos and I hope you will continue posting them. Can you tell me where you bought your staple gun from and the brand name as I am after one? Also those metal wall fixing plates look useful can you advise of a supplier? Many thanks and keep up the good work.
Hi, and thanks! The stapler I have is a Maestri ME 606/4 nailer/stapler, I bought mine from www.spotnails.co.uk. Great piece of kit, bullet-proof! Sorry, not sure what wall fixing plates you mean - which video were they in? P
Would this be appropriate for larger doors at 1800 long or would that be prone to cupping in a few years after being fitted I’m 20 and have got a homer to build a built in wardrobe in the next month or so? Thanks.
Yes, I’ve made lots of doors that size - have a look through the act catalogue, every wardrobe panel door in these videos is made this way. Critical thing is to use 22mm MRMDF for the rails & stiles - I switched from 18mm after I had issues with doors bowing. 22mm with a 6mm panel is great though! 👍👍
Hi Peter, great video. I have to make a bespoke set of doors to fit an opening. Just wondering how much bigger than your opening do you make your doors? It is two seperate openings, one door for each
Hi James, and thanks! I try and keep the gap between the door at around 2mm, and I prefer to keep the doors flush with the outer edges of the carcass if it’s freestanding, or 2mm between the carcasses if it’s in a run. Hope that makes sense! 👍
Hi Peter, I'm using your method and everything works fine when putting the rails/stiles/panel together dry. Upon adding glue, however, I'm finding that the rails and stiles are popping out and even with 4 clamps i can't seem to get them to stay flush - do you have any suggestions on how to remedy this? Thanks.
+Emma Withers Hi Emma. That's weird. Because I use a 1/4" grooving bit with a 6mm panel I sometimes get a slight misalignment, but it's usually easy to sand out. The other option is to put a clamp across the faces of the rails & stiles, then clamp them up to bring the rails and stiles together in the usual way - does that make sense? If it doesn't I'll draw something out and put it on Dropbox. Or do a quick video about it... 😄
How did the MDF paint on the ends? I know it's much better than plywood, that would probably require a veneer or something though huh? Good tutorial. Thanks.
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thanks 👍 I'll give it a go. I usually use dominoes for timber doors but don't have the right size and didn't really want to break the bank and buy an 18mm or 22mm sheet of MDF 🙄
Cheers for the nailer info Peter. The plates were used in the fitted bookshelf video. They were fixed to the back of the carcasses and you drill through the carcasses and through the plates to fix the carcasses to the wall. Cheers Terry
Yep, I’ve had a Kapex for many years, and it has featured now and then; trouble is the kind of cuts you make on a mitre saw are rarely very interesting, visually, so it doesn’t show up that often. 🤷♂️👍
Not sure how long you been wood working? But anytime you make a panel door onle the rails and stiles are the only thing glued the panel just rides in the slot most people put small rubber like bbs to hold the panel in the center. as the humidity changes the panel can move. Maybe the mdf isnt as prone to swell as real wood but I would still do right.I would never make anything other than a few shop jigs from MDF no mater how well I was paid. People judge you from the work you do and how well it holds up. Even if only to be painted I would use a less exspencive woood such as pine. also you can make some real nice raised panel on the tablesaw alone as well. To me this is walmart quality furniture. Sorry not trying to put you down to bad but you are teaching in this video so thats why I called out the glue.
Woodworking professionally? Just completed my 18th year, thanks for asking. I've made literally thousands of panel doors from MR MDF for clients this way, without any issues. Certainly, if I was using a natural timber the panel would be left loose to allow for movement, but MR MDF has zero movement under normal conditions where I live and work, so gluing the panel in *is* doing it right. Totally agree that people can judge you by how well your work holds up, and I have an 18-year-long history of repeat work for private and commercial clients who are very happy with what I do... FWIW using a tablesaw to make a raised panel would have my workshop shut down and my insurance yanked in a heartbeat - totally against all the Health & Safety regs to use an unguarded blade here in the UK. Thanks for watching.
You only need to leave room for movement if the material are dissimilar and will expand/contract at different rates. If you needed to leave room when attaching MDF to MDF, then the very existence of MDF would be a problem since mdf is just wood dust glued together.
as I said maybe its not as prone AS REAL WOOD! I my self would turn away work if it is not something I would own. But if it was real wood with grain you woould never glue the panel. OH yes I have made lots of cabinet doors infact I grew up in a cabinet shop and been woodworking for 20 plus myself. I am sorry if I hurt you feelings but I just hate to see real craftsmanship die. MDF in furniture and cabinets are junk!!
It's not just mdf. If your panel was made of jointed real wood and it was the same species as your rails/stiles you could also just glue it in. You only have to leave room for movement if you're using different materials, like oak stiles/rails and a veneered/plywood panel or poplar stiles and a pine panel.
In correct!!!! if it is a panel door made with grained wood even if its th same wood the panel can expand and crack or crack around the stiles next to the rail. The grain on the panel is running up and down same as the stiles however the rails are going the other way and won't expand the same direction. So if you got a lot of humidity the panel pushes out on stiles and the rails push in on the panel it can crack or warp. Besides where can the panel go if its in a frame? A waste of glue besides being incorecct.
Hi Peter, many thanks for posting this, just finished a Mock-up using some 6 and 18mm MDF offcuts. I had to use an improvised offset 4mm biscuit joint router cutter in my table, then invert the panel to get a finished 6mm slot, 12mm deep in the 18mm, glued up and 'hung' just to see how well it worked. as it turns out, VERY well indeed! Which then got me thinking, ever considered attempting this with 6 and 18 (or 22mm) Birch Ply? That could look rather stunning with a couple of coats of varnish.
+John Williams Pleasure - good to hear it worked well for you! No, I’ve never tried it with Birch Ply, but it is in my ‘one day when I have a minute’ list! Cheers, P 👍
Great video, I was looking to make doors for my kitchen , this looks like the easiest way there is indeed! how thick are the groove cut outs? I think the tongue&groove router cutters you use are really really expensive, I already have Trend 9.5mm rebate router bit, do you think it would be fine to use that? I would use them on 20mm pine.
Tom B. Thanks. The heavy duty grooving bits I use are designed just for grooving, and last a long time; a rebating bit will generally be made for rebating, not grooving, so I wouldn't expect it to give as good a finish on both sides of the groove, though it's not something I've tried. You'll probably need to make shallower cuts over several passes in natural timber e.g. Pine, and be careful of tear out on the ends of the rails. The grooved I use produces a 1/4" (6.4mm) groove to a Maz depth of ~22mm or so - full specs on the link in the description. HTH Peter
I like the. Very straightforward. Far better than the normal mortise and tenons joints. I also like your use of the Fesool track as a boss cut device. I will use both of the ideas.
Very nice video and work! But also I love your little modified sanding block or disc made out of a discarded(?) sanding pad! I am copying that right away!
Good video and good method Peter! The last kitchen I built I used mdf with tongue and groove which resulted in too much extra effort. Next time I'll try this method.
@@10MinuteWorkshop surely glue. Glue in the slot and then the panel would hold everything together. Then glue on the face of the rail and style. Just a query as I've never seen this method before.
No, a butt joint between the rail and stile would never be strong enough - feel free to try it yourself! The point of this loose tenon technique is speed and efficiency; by simply continuing the groove the full length of the stile, and on three edges of the rail, and your loose tenon made from the panel material you have a fast strong door in minutes. Cut your loose tenon accurately and there won’t be any gaps to fill. 👍👍
Great video. I have made 19 cabinet doors for our kitchen based on the video. Thanks for sharing the video. I used 18 mm MR mdf for the styles and 9 mm panels. I have rounded all edges before glueing it together.
That's fantastic to hear, really pleased that my video has helped in some way. Bet the last one went quicker than the first! Thanks so much for letting me know! Peter 😃👍
Hi Peter, just been watching this again as I'm looking to make two pairs of doors for alcoves that have adjustable shelving in my office. Most helpful - thanks. Each door will need to be ~2400mm high and ~490mm wide and I was thinking of adding extra rails and increasing the number of panels in each door, partly for aesthetics but also to stiffen things up a bit. What minimum thickness of material (MR MDF) would you suggest for the rails and stiles given the height of the door? Thanks, Simon
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thanks Peter. I have something of a reputation for over-engineering things like this so was all geared up to bond two layers of 25mm together. I'll ease off a bit ;-)
Hi Peter, thanks for the excellent video. I'm wondering if you may be able to help with an issue I've had. I've just made my first doors using this method and was pretty chuffed with them for a first effort. However, each door varies in width by up to 1mm - a lot when aiming for a 3mm gap between doors. They're about 2 metres tall and have rails at top, bottom and middle. I'm pretty sure the reason for the discrepancy is the fact that I cut the 6mm panel to 2mm narrower than the total width between the grooves, thinking it'd be wise to allow 1mm either side wiggle room. As these are full length wardrobe doors, I believe that the stiles wandered very slightly off straight during the glue up which couldn't have happened if I'd cut the panels to be exactly the size between the grooves. Perhaps the obvious solution would be what I've just mentioned; however, allowing zero wiggle room between the panel and grooves might be tricky to achieve given my fairly modest skills! Thank you and sorry for the essay. Jack
I always allow a bit of wiggle room for the panel, but you need to be careful to only clamp them up across the rails, otherwise you can pull the stiles out of shape yourself. Sometimes a good idea to make the doors slightly oversize and trim them back to fit with a tracksaw. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop thanks Peter. I did clamp up only across the 3 rails so perhaps my stiles deviated by a mm or so in width and that was responsible. First project with my Evolution track saw with 2.8m rail which I was really disappointed with so have returned. A shame all the others on the market are so much more! Thanks again
Fantastic video. However....Peter i need your help! Im making these doors for my friend in his kitchen. Also he wants end panels with v grooves and filler pieces. My question is, do i need to use moisture resistant mdf for doors, panels, and filler pieces? Where do you buy uour mdf from? And what thickness would you reccomend for all pieces? Im sorry to ask so many questions but your the mdf King! Your videos are amazing....thanks. Hope i hear back.
Thanks Chris! I buy from a local timber yard (ajferguson.co.uk) who are excellent, but MR MDF is widely available in Britain - stores like Wickes stock it - and is a better quality board generally, but particularly for use in kitchens and bathrooms. It’s well worth searching out IMHO. I generally use 22mm for the rails and stiles and 6mm for the panel, though I’ve used 18mm for the rails/stiles before on smaller doors without any problems. The v-groove (sometimes called butt & bead, TGV or matchboard) you can either buy ready made in sort or long orientation, or you can make your own with a router if you need e.g. specific spacing. HTH Peter. 👍
Peter Millard Thank you so much for replying! Amazing info. If i use 22mm thick for rails and stiles then would i also use 22mm for any end panels and fillers? To keep uniform thickness for asthetics? The v grooves in for end panels and is just a visual asthetic and ill do it with the router as you suggest. Look forward to your reply. Thanks. Ill be asking you many more questions in the future as im just starting my woodworking journey.
Absolutely brilliant! I have just discovered your chanel. Can you make the same doors in the exact same way using timber and plywood or a combination of timber for the rails and stiles and MDF for the panel? I can't recall if you mentioned what thickness of MDF you used. Can you please confirm this? Thanks and keep up the good work.
MA - Michael Thank you! I'm only ten weeks or so into a year-long UA-cam experiment, so appreciate the feedback! I used MRMDF throughout in this video, 22mm for the rails and stiles, and a 6mm panel, as this makes a solid, but lightweight door. Yes, you can absolutely use this technique for solid timber doors, but if you live in an area of high humidity, or with large changes in humidity between seasons, leave the panel unglued to allow for movement. Thanks for watching. P
Doors built this way with a MDF panel glued to the frame are very, very strong. Peter was able to do this because MDF is very stable and he used similar materials in both the frame and panel. If you start mixing your materials they are likely to have different rates of change from humid to dry and they may tear joints apart over time. If you replace the MDF panel with wood then the panel should be loose (not glued). Not glueing the panel will reduce the strength of the door to the point where I would be inclined to want much deeper tenons then what was used in this video. I probably would resort to dowels in that case.
Peter, Do you think it would be acceptable to make these doors out of ¾" MDF? In the States the closest we have to 22mm MDF is 1" or 25.5mm. I just made a test door out of the 1" MDF and I can't decide if it looks too thick or not. I'm going to make another one out of the ¾" MDF to compare. For those in the US that want to make these doors I did find a router bit that will cut a slot 1 5/64" deep. It is very expensive though (close to $100) . By adjusting the router fence it would give a ¾" deep slot. Here is the link to it: www.cmtutensili.com/show_items.asp?pars=RB~8/922.033.11B# I used a much cheaper ½" deep slot cutter giving me a tenon of 1" and the doors seem quite strong. Thanks Peter, loving your channel.
Hi Kevin, and thanks! 3/4” (18mm) works fine for smaller doors - I had a few issues with full-size wardrobe doors bowing, but never on regular cabinet doors. I’ve had other subscribers in the US tell me that 22mm (7/8th) MDF is available, just not that common - it’s worth searching out, if you have the time; I found 25mm a bit too heavy - sure is solid though! BTW I’ve made plenty of doors with a 1/4” x 1/2” depth groover - works great, I just prefer a bit more depth for bigger doors, so it makes sense to standardise on one bit for everything. 👍👍
Peter Millard Argh! I'm half way through making some wardrobe doors in this fashion, approx 2000x375mm (8 of the them!). Rails and stiles all cut to 80mm but in 18mm MR, and now I see this comment! Hoping to get away with it, will do the first coat of primer on both sides at the same time, and use 4 hinges per door. Fingers crossed! Any tips on keeping them from bowing would be gratefully received!
![Painting MDF Doors [video 407]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZIwNJGlVtwc/mqdefault.jpg)
You really impressed me at 1:19 by drawing the groove lines... 👍
Thanks! Back then I needed all the reminders I could get... 😆👍
A perfectly effortless straight line by hand 😍
@@thefilthelement use your finger as a guide along the edge, the depth and consistently still take quite a bit of skill.
@@teeemm9456 pretty standard drywall technique,
"panel cut slightly smaller, just to make life easier"... I didn't hear that the first time I attempted this door. Listen to him, he is right it makes life MUCH easier.
Just finished making 4 doors for some cabinets using this method. Made them out of solid wood (18mm by 44mm boards for the frame, 7mm tongue and groove cladding for the backing). Don't have a router, so cut the grooves on the table saw (that took a bit of thought!). Worked really well. Thanks Peter.
22mm MR MDF - rail & stile
6mm panel
1/4” grooving bit
18mm deep groove
I wish I had the space to have a room like this.
It's surprisingly small in reality actually
I've been woodworking for 40+ years and never thought of this or saw anyone else position loose tenons like this. Amazing!
Howard Hagadorn Wow, thanks! I've been woodworking for 18 years myself, and have made panel doors every conceivable way, and this is by far the easiest I've found. Glad I made the video, and great to hear you found it useful! P
The only person I've seen do that before is me. I'm 60 and started using this method many years ago. I can't remember how or why I came up with it. My father was a lifelong cabinet maker and he didn't use it. Built cabinets for my son's kitchen 2 1/2 years ago. Shaker doors on the bottoms and glass pane doors on the top. Same technique on the rails & stiles but with a rebate on the inside to receive the glass. Used small offset hold down clips to secure the glass in place. Always been the easiest way for me. Through all the years I've never seen anyone else use this method until now.
HELO PETER I LIKE YOU JOB I ENJOY STEP FOR STEP, I SUSCRIBE NOW , I WANT A WORKSHOP I LIKE YOU TUTORIAL, FROM MEXICALI BC , MEXICO
Watching after the restoration couple video on shaker doors as per UA-cam's sidebar!
Proof that even after 3 years your older content will still be watched!
Thumbs up, I see some true pro clues to your profession here, flip down trap saw. Cover up of router bit hole for dust extraction and timber butted up to stop stripping out.
It's clear to see you put a lot of thought into your work Peter.
I must say though you look younger in your current videos than you do here! Would would you put that down to ha?!
Haha, thanks! Must be the clean living. Either that, or the drinking. 🤷♂️🍻👍
Hi Peter, sorry to bother you with this question, you might have already answered it or not. What is the common width for stiles and rails for shaker doors like these.
Thanks for your videos. Greetings from Argentina.
Hi Juan Pablo. I start at around 80mm, but have gone as narrow as 60 and as wide as 100. Bottom rail on taller doors are usually anywhere from 120 - 150mm, though there’s nothing set in stone - just whatever looks right. 👍👍
Wow, that is a much simpler method, may be perfectly fine for my kitchen, thank you for sharing.
Thanks! 👍
Thanks to your simple build method I have just finished making 18 MDF doors with a hardboard panel insert. Of all the information I have taken from your video the "loose tenon" is what make the whole process so fast and simple, I can set my router once for every cut and leave it! No bit changes and no trying to find that exact setting again for the same set of doors. My doors included sizes from 23 inches tall to 70 inches tall, the only process I had to add for the longer doors was to extend my top drawer under my bench, lay the door on it and check the straight side of my bench against the length of the door, I do this on both the first stile and then when I'm happy I also do it on the 2nd stile. I check this width with a tape measure before I proceed, this has saved me a lot of stress with trying to square up a big door after full assembly with glue starting to set. I have also changed to Titebond III for the longer working time. I plan to make a video making sure to credit you for your tenon idea.
Hi Greg, and thanks so much for taking the time to comment! Really pleased to hear how your doors went - great stuff - and glad that this old video helped! Just to be clear though, the ‘loose tenon’ method of making doors this way is as old as the hills - I’m just delighted to have been able to bring it to a few more people. 👍👍
I've now watched more then a few shaker style door videos, and I have to honestly say yours is the simplest and most cost effective. The floating tenon idea made from the same stock as the panel, great idea. No special equipment or expensive power tools to purchase. Great technique and video. One question the router bit you used to cut the slot, same thickness as the panel?
Thanks! This was my first UA-cam video, so pleased to see it’s still useful 👍👍. The slot cutter is slightly thicker than the panel - 1/4” vs 6mm - as this gives a little wiggle-room during assembly - and wiggle-room during a glue-up is always welcome 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop times when it is useful to have metric and imperial measurements. 🤓😂😎
Hi Peter, when I first watched this I wondered why you didn’t 'stop the grooves in the styles and why you routed a groove in the short edge of the rail. It's just dawned on me that the loose tenons actually add an increased gluing surface and do away with the need to use pocket screws or whatever to strengthen the butt joints. Was that the plan?
Yep. Simple as that - no additional fixings needed 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Having just made 8 doors using regular tenons I now understand why you make your doors this way. I'm definitely going to do it this way next time.
Thank you Peter. Absolutely wonderful video and carpentry techniques. Subscribed!
How would you adapt this for a larger door - say a 2 meter by 45cm wardrobe door? Still strong enough without any screws?
Yes, absolutely - and welcome, btw! If you plough through the back catalogue you’ll see plenty of sizeable wardrobe doors made this way 👍👍
What if you cut the outer frame at 45 degrees? There would be no visible groove to hide or am I missing something?
Quick question out of curiosity: what makes this preferable to a full tongue and groove style joint? I guess if you're using MDF, maybe loose tenons are stronger? If you used wood, would a tongue and groove joint make more sense (especially if you are finishing with stain/clear coat and not painting)?
Stub tenons look better in natural timbers, not much in it WRT strength though 👍👍
edited for auto-correct
Interesting concept using loose tenons, never seen it done before. What if you were using grained wood and wanted to make floating panels? would the joints be strong enough?
Yes, plenty strong enough.
Love the hinged festool track!
Thanks! It’s an off-the-shelf Festool MFT or Multi-function table & the hinged rail comes as standard. See videos #182 and #183 for more details. 👍👍
Hi Peter, I have a few questions if you don’t mind .
- Do 22mm thick doors work ok with 18 mm carcasses on a concealed overlay hinge ?
- Would this method be ok for larger wardrobe doors ?
- when glueing up, do you think you could get away with some small gun pins fired through the rail, style and floating tenon when clamped up , so you can release them straight away.
I have about 30 to make 🤦
Thanks
Old vid! Yes, I found 22mm to be better for bigger doors, and yes, the method works well for large eg wardrobe doors too. And yes, if you need to make the best use of fewer clamps then pinning the loose tenons will work, it’s just an added step to fill the holes later. 👍
Hi Peter. Great video as always. I’ve got to make some doors for some wardobes im building. I want to use this technique but I have 25mm tulip wood for the styles and rails and was going to use 6mm panel as my insert like you have but my doors are bigger. About 1.8m by 590mm. I was told that the 6mm would make it to films and was advised to use 12mm instead. Just wanted to get your thoughts as I’m struggling to find a cutter that will give me the 12.5/12.7mm cut out I need for the 12mm. Thank you
Thanks! Wow, my first ever video, still getting views and questions, lol! Pretty much every door I’ve ever made had a 6mm panel, and had no complaints from customers. You can go thicker if you want, but as you’ve found you’ll struggle to get a 12mm groover so you’ll be into a few passes to make it up. 👍
Can I ask, is there a set size for the gap between to door and the carcass on an inset door project? ..... eg carcass opening 500mm, door width 497mm ?
Thank you for any help you can offer.
I try to keep around a 2mm gap between everything - anything less than 1.5mm (1/16th") and you risk the doors binding on a 22mm door, and anything getting up to, or bigger than 3mm (1/8th") looks gappy. So yes, a single inset door in a 500mm carcass 496/497 depending on thickness. 👍
Sorry if this has been asked before. Is this method good for tall wardrobe doors? Looking at making some 2200mm x 600mm. Worried about bowing/warping.
Yes, it works well, but for a door that tall use 22mm minimum for the rails and stiles. 👍
Hi Peter. What size mdf are you using here? Is it 18mm with 6mm panel?
If so what size do you recommend for taller doors where usually a centre rail is put in?
If a centre rail is put in I guess you just do it as you have but two panels are required and the centre will be purely held from the two panels butting to it?
Thanks
Old vid! Yes, 18/6mm, but I switched to 22/6 or 22/9 for larger doors. Check out any of my furniture build playlists for lots of videos on the topic. 👍
Dear Mr. Millard
Can you please stop showing the rest of the world how easy it is to do cabinetry.
Sir you are going to put me out of a job.
Oh wait, I have a job because there are people out there who don't have the time to do it themselves. Please teach on.
Seriously you do make it look to easy. 👍
Haha, thank you! This was my first ever video, still gets a few views! 👍👍
Hi Peter, how do you size your door in relation with the carcass. I mean say single carcass is 5 or 6 mm wider the singe door? Is this about right? And how about double door?
Hi Pablo. I usually leave a couple of mm either side, so a single door will be ~4mm narrower than the carcass, but a double will be ~6mm narrower (both doors) than the carcass. 👍
Peter Millard Thanks a lot Peter 😊👍🏻
Could someone explain what the loose tenons do? Why didn't Peter just not route all the way down to the end of the rails and leave it solid? Is it an additional strength join for the sides and top/bottom perhaps? Sorry if dumb question, only just starting out at woodwork.
When you’re making a door you need some way to fix the rails and stiles together - simply butt jointing them with glue won’t be strong enough. A traditional mortise and tenon shapes the end of the rail to fit into a corresponding mortise in the stile, whereas a loose or floating tenon does the same thing, but into a mortise in both the rail and stile. In this method the mortise is created by extending the panel groove around the end of the rail, and the full,height of the stile, with the loose tenon made from the same panel material for convenience.
It’s a simple, easy way to joint the rail and stile of a panel door together. There’s an updated version of this video here btw - ua-cam.com/video/jwGvYsvdCg4/v-deo.html Same information, but with better production values. 👍
Love this! About to start a bedroom fit and I will be using this method!
Thanks! 👍👍
I may use this technique on some doors I’m building soon, but I can’t bring myself to use MDF for the rails/stiles
Peter, how well did your paint job came out on the edge of the door, I know MDF is very absorbent and I was wondering if you had to prime the wood twice or was it enough just once before painting. Thanks.
It comes out very well - I’ve never had a problem painting the edges of MDF, and honestly can’t believe the fuss some people make about it on UA-cam. I did a 7-part series on painting and finishing, starts at video #029. Short version; start with a decent quality MR MDF. Sand the cut edges to P320. Primer/undercoat once and let it dry. De-nib all around, with particular attention to the cut edges, and primer/undercoat them again. Denib when dry, and apply a minimum of 2 topcoats, de-nibbled in between. That’s it. 👍👍
@@Jessica-to8um a shame he never answered you. Nibs are pimples in paint caused by dust settling in it while it dries. You want to sand between coats. Even if you don't have nibs sanding causes paint to level out better. Don't know why. Just know that's how it is. So my guess is he was probably referring to sanding. Which is a critical aspect as far as fine finishing goes. You're not going to get a good paint job if you don't sand. That's how it is.
@@10MinuteWorkshop I've asked every construction and lumber supply around me (in the US), and no one has heard of MR MDF.
Great idea! Any long term drawbacks to gluing the panel at all edges? I was always taught that there needs to be some freedom of movement...
Yay! My first youtube video, still getting views and questions nine years on, lol! No, no issues at all - the panel is the same as the rails and stiles, so there's no movement to be concerned about. 👍
Hi Peter do you know how they get the groove in the rail style joint (v groove I think ) in these type of doors like the bnq/Wickes oak shaker doors have ? Thanks
Hi Talab. Yes, it’s pretty common - you just run each rail & stoke against a v-groove bit before you make the joint, so you effectively chamfer each edge, so when they abut you get a ‘v’ shape 👍👍
Peter Millard hi thanks for the info
I want his workshop in my garage ! Great vid , that's how you do it people . If you haven't got all these tools though , just cut one peace to the size of your door then cut your styles and rail and stick them on top flush to the edge , your painting them anyway so who's gonna know . I'm not knocking this guy at all he's showing very well how it should be done .
Thanks. See also video #019 - More on Doors (and why I don’t make them this way) 👍👍
Thanks for reply , I watch #019 , really good and detailed explination of the problems that would occur if done ' the quicker way ' my main reson for suggesting this method is for people like me who don't do much of this type of thing so hence don't have the tools in a purpose built workshop . But hope people concidering the quick way will watch this video and be prepared for the problems . Great vids once again . Keep up the good work
Would be a good method with real wood, but with mdf I'd rather plant 6mm rails and styles onto a solid 12 mm back, a more solid door.
No, it isn't a more solid method - see video #019, More on doors... 👍
Can I make 700mm wide by 600 high doors in this fashion. Would it be strong enough. Cheers. Great videos all round.
Hi Peter, what brand an size is the router bit. I’m having a hard time finding one that gives a deeper groove. Many thanks!
Links in the description, even in this one from ~7 years ago. 👍
Heavy duty groover - goo.gl/Ht1TU4
Arbor for above - goo.gl/xdE9PU
You can get away with gluing an MDF panel, but normally it's a bad idea to glue the panel to the styles/rails.
To be clear, this entire job is made from Moisture Resistant (MR) MDF - you’re not ‘getting away’ with anything gluing the panel in. 👍
2. The style of door is very similar to a Shaker style however it has a framed border to imitate a framed cabinet. I have watched your video and would think that your method would be great but as the outer frame will be approx 105mm will it remain stable and would you suggest the frame is made and panel inserted prior to the frame groove being routered. Also do you think it would be difficult to paint this groove effectively. the painting questions also remains with the doors in respect of Priming and finish coat although I would intend to fully construct the door before undertaking any Painting. The majority of these doors are pretty standard with the exception of the Pantry Doors which I intend to utilise 2 doors for and simply join the doors with a steel back plate. Do you feel that 18mm MR MDF is adequate or would you suggest 22mm. And what would you suggest the recessed panel thickness be ?
Many thanks for and advise you could offer
Hi Peter, grateful for a bit of advice please. I’m building a storage unit and the doors will be 150cm tall, will I need to put a centre rail in or would 2 rails suffice? I’ll be using 18mm MR MDF, thanks again for all the Vids, I’m guessing you will be reviewing the new Benchdogs Ultimate MFT table, I look forward to that one!
Barry
Hi Barry. 1500mm is right on the cusp of where I’d want to start adding in a mid rail. I think I’d check the aesthetics, see how it looks with and without. I generally used 22mm for rails and stiles on bigger doors, just fyi. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop thanks Peter, appreciate your time. I knocked one up today in 18mm using dominoes and 3 rails, easy to make and turned out well. Agree thicker material would be better, fingers crossed these don’t warp!!
Thanks again for your reply 👍
I've found the easiest way to make MDF doors in this style is to start with 1/2" sheet of MDF (cut to the exact door size). Then cut 1/4" MDF in strips to glue on the top as the stiles and rails. I use contact adhesive so there's no clamping involved. Once sanded, and painted, it looks great. With this method, you only need a table saw/track saw to make the door. No need to cut dados with a router. No need for gluing in tenons.
See video #019 🤷♂️👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop I actually don't disagree with anything in that video (if doing it like you did). Using Barge Contact Cement eliminates the need for nails/glue/clamps. Using Euro Hinges makes hinge problem go away. Usually I make the doors a tiny bit oversized, and then once built, I take off a 1/64 on each side at the table saw. Makes for a perfect door - super easy.
Not only is your workmanship A+ you actually take the time to respond to people's comments!
I do my best. And thanks! 👍
Great video Peter. I am a newbie and currently learning to attempt to update my kitchen cabinet door as well. I have 2 questions if I may. First, how dusty is MDF? I was gonna paint the cabinets anyway but so far I was focusing on making the doors with 3\4 Poplar styles and Rails and 1\4 MDF or plywood insert until I sow your video. Q2- If working with 100% MDF could I just use the Tongue and Groove cutting on the table router? or would the Tongue expose the soft middle part of the MDF and that is why you went with the loose tenants? Thank you
Don't know if you still need to know. But MDF is probably the dustiest material to work with. The dust is super-fine. Not too bad though if your in a shop. Keep in mind, once this wood glue dries after being clamped properly, the strength in the joint is incredible. Going all MDF for the stiles and rails should be just fine vs poplar. Poplar will look a bit crisper if you want that look, but cabinet doors don't get a lot of sharp impact.
It's very dusty ALWAYS WEAR A DECENT MASK even if your just doing a small job . I'm city and guilds qualified and I remember from my college days being told mdf is the worst wood dust to breath in .
Hi Peter, I’m new to the channel and really enjoy and appreciate your content. Quick questions re your shaker doors please. Your video suggest 22mm MDF for rails and styles, but would 18mm suffice? Second question, when you offset your groove for the back panel, is the groove closer to the front of the door or back? I don’t recall you mentioning anything when assembling the door! Thanks!
Hi. 18mm is fine for smaller doors; I switched to 22mm after I had some issues with larger wardrobe doors bowing; switching to 22 stopped that, but obvs. you can’t have a mix of 18 & 22 thicknesses, so I standardised on 22mm. But I made hundreds of doors in 18mm before then!
Re the groove, in an 18mm door I’d make it a centred 6mm panel, so 6/6/6/. In 22mm I’d do 6/6/8 with the 6 facing out for a regular shaker door, and the 8 facing out for a ‘Victorian’ ie with a moulding applied. Hope that makes sense! P
Thank you so much!! I didn’t expect to get a reply let alone so quickly. Thanks a million!
Great video Peter, thanks for making it. I just made two doors today following this method. Worked perfectly. Keep posting! You are appreciated. .
+zowyadoinbeb That's fantastic, thanks!
Hi Peter, I've designed an alcove built-in with a double cabinet at the base. I like the traditional look of inset shaker doors i.e. in a face frame with butt hinges. do you have any experience with this and any advice? can I use 18mm mdf for the face frame? Also worried about the stability of the hinge screws and whether they'll work loose in the Mdf? Thanks
Hi. I don't do much with face frames right now - they seem to have fallen out of favour a bit here - but when I do I run the face-frame flush with the inside of the cabinet carcass, then return it back & scribe to the chimney-breast, wall, or whatever. This also covers up any gap around the carcass.
I've put screws into the 'end grain' of MDF before and haven't had any problems (long, skinny screws, with a pilot hole and a dab of glue) but I'd be a bit leery of doing it in 18mm - I think you'll have more issues with the MDF splitting than anything else. Would these be flush doors, or shaker-style panel doors? Just thinking of the weight...
The other trick I do with alcove units is to make the back of the bookcase slightly long, so it overhangs the carcass top at the back, then you just pull the bookcase forwards to get a nice snug fit. Finish off with a face-frame around the bookcase to hide any gaps. HTH! P 👍
Excellent video! Great! Fast! Polite! You made it look so easy and simple! Thank you!
Hi Peter! Been watching all your videos more than once! Ive just ordered the same grooving bit and arbor. Can uou tell me if your using a bearing with it? If so is there an order to the spacers,washers,bearings? Any saftey advice? Look forward to reply. Thanks.
I'm going to be rebuilding all my master bath cabinet doors in this style. The video will help a ton, thanks!
BronkBuilt Great stuff - let us know how it goes 👍
What type of MDF did you use? It has green part. I never seen this type of mdf in Canada.
As I think I say in the video, it's MR or Moisture Resistant MDF; it's a much better quality board for not much more money. 👍
Hi Peter. How do you feel about using softwood for the rail and stile? Better for fixing the hinge?
I’ve made thousands of doors this way, never had an issue with the hinges, but whatever works for you. 👍
Dropped into my "recommended "... 🙄🤭
Ahhh happy memories .. 🤗
Still a classic almost 3 years later !
Ya've come a long way Pete !!
😎☘👍🍺
Haha! I'm going to have to watch it myself now! Yes, my first video on UA-cam - the first are always your worst, so they say 🤷♂️
Oh wow - that audio! 😱Still, almost 400k views the shonky sound clearly hasn't held me back, lol! 😂👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop I remember watchin that first vid when it came out & immediately subbing on the strength of it .. 😎☘👍
Woah! Clearly a man of extreme patience, Peter. 😂👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop
😂😂😂
😎👍☘🍺
Can MDF rails and styles be used with olgee router bits for decrative edge?
You can, but you need to use a good quality MRMDF otherwise you'll get fluffy edges and it'll be a nightmare to finish. 👍
Your microphone and camera set up have come a long way from here Peter 👍🏼😂 been following your from your first few months and always tell other joiners about this video 👍🏼
Haha! Glad you noticed! My first UA-cam video, shot this on my phone, no mic; still one of my most-watched videos. 👍👍
I bet you never thought you would still be here, more advanced and killing it 👍🏼💪🏼
Where would I find a similar cross cut saw assembly? That's looked amazing!
Hi and thanks! It’s an off-the-shelf Festool MFT or Multi-function table & the hinged rail comes as standard. I haven’t done a video about it as there are loads on UA-cam already, if you search for it by name. 👍
It seems like it would be really easy to make one with plywood and a hinge. I might give it a try, festool is way over priced. I don't even have to look it up to know it probaby costs as much as a table saw.
Good vid but shaker style doors have a slight angle on inside of the rails and Stiles.
Great video, made it look simple and easy to have a go at. Quick question, why do you need the loose tenons? Could you cut the grooves in the rails and stile in such a way that they weren’t necessary? IE not the full length of the stiles? Is it just quicker and easier this way?
The loose tenons hold the rails and stiles together. You could do some kind of intricate hald-lap joint, but this is vastly faster, and simpler. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop thanks for the speedy reply Peter. I’ve seen it done with rails joined by tenon into the stiles but like you say that’s more cuts and setups on the router. Also like that you can prep stiles and cut them to length after the fact. Thanks for sharing, it’s great to see the different ways things can be done.
Peter - just to say thank you, I decided to try this method but I have used oak as the frame with a plywood panel. It works beautifully, I don't have a router table so had to cut the slots with a handheld router but they have come out beautifully and very strong with a deep groove and wide tenons.
Thanks again - I didn't know about this method and it makes very neat, strong doors.
That’s fantastic - really pleased that it worked out for you. And yes, it’s a great, simple approach to cabinet doors 👍
I was going to ask if this could be done without a table router, so thanks for confirming it can :-) I imagine it's not quite as quick or easy?
@@markredshaw84 It definitely isn't but I used the vice to provide extra stability/width for the router to move against and it worked out.
Those loose tenons are going to take some care in painting.
No more than usual. Any slight happiness gets filled with glue, or can be easily filled with 2-pack resin. 👍👍
Hey Peter, loving these videos, I'm making some shaker doors and 'tooling-up' for the process. I have a router and table but never used a groove cutter. Going onto Wealden as you suggest I've gone for the 6.35 bit and a 1/2 inch, 8mm Arbor. Question: do I need a guide bearing in addition to these when using a fence and table or are these only for 'hand-routing'. Thanks in advance. Dave
You don't need a bearing if you're planning to use the bit in a table, although I have to admit, mine does; never used it though 😬
Hello Peter, couple of quick questions please. When you make your MDF shaker doors, how do you treat them before painting? Do you apply MDF sealer, undercoat then the actual coat? Same question if your making end boards for a kitchen cabinet? I’m just a bit concerned if I cut an end board, the base of it will be on the floor so was wondering the best way to seal it to prevent any moisture penetrating the MDF. Many thanks.
I only use MR (moisture Resistant) MDF so it's less of an issue, but generally I don't do anything other than apply a couple of coats of primer/undercoat, followed by a couple of coats of topcoat - all water-based acrylic. If I know there's going to be ground contact with something that's potentially damp eg bathroom floor, then I'd probably use a wood hardener first, and let that fully soak in before painting. I did a 6-part painting & finishing series starting video #029 that may be worth a look, or an 8-part 'playing at spraying' series that covered the same process if you're planning to spray. HTH P
A word of caution. Wearing gloves around machinery is not to be advised. In the scenario where you get a cut, or a severance it means the surgeon has to spend time extracting the threads form the glove out of the wound.
👍
Similar advice goes to motorcyclists wearing jeans. The fibres, and something in the denim make it poisonous.
I tend to ride my m/c naked to save them the most time. @@edwardrolling1411
Hi Peter,
Great series of videos, please can you let me know what grooving bit you used in the router? Thanks
Thanks! It's a heavy duty groover from Wealden Tools - goo.gl/Ht1TU4
If you check any of my raised panel doors video, or any video after, there's a full gear list in the description. HTH, Peter
Hi Peter, is it possible to cut the grooves with a plunge router without a router table?
It’s technically possible, but not recommended.
Absolutely love your videos. They gave me the push to treat myself to a woodshop for my 30th 😂.
I do have a quick question about using MR MDF in kitchen cabinets. What is your prefered method for finishing rhe inside - do you paint or veneer?
My preference is for Melamine tbh, but when I was doing client work it was 95% painted, 3% Birch ply and 2% veneered. 👍👍
I'm planning to do this with 18mm plywood for the frame and 6mm plywood for the panel. My concern is the 18mm ply end will be exposing around the panel. Do you have any advice how to cover that? Edge banding cannot be applied reliably there.
+soosai steven Will they be painted or stained/lacquered? If the latter, there's not much you can do, other than try applying the edgebanding before running the groove. If painted, then careful rubbing down will minimise the 'layers' of the Ply. Check out my 'painting and finishing' series for more on this. 👍
Hi Peter. I know this is an old video but I frequently use it as a reference for building my panel doors. I'm in the process of buying the groover and arbour from your links. My question is what size bearing did you use on the arbour or did you just use your fence to set the depth? I know it's a few years ago but if you could shed some light I'd be eternally grateful.
Wow, my first ever UA-cam video! Couldn’t tell you the bearing size I’m sorry - it came with the arbor I think? From memory I t gives a 22mm depth of cut, but I mostly use the fence tbh. 👍👍
A woodworker with that accent could literally get all the girls. All of them. At any age. Damn.
Hahahahhaha! Dude, you have literally made this father's day, lol! Must show this to my wife - actually, I may have this printed and framed 😂And thank you 😁
Just stay married to give others a chance :)
😂👍
Thanks for a very informative tutorial. From your experience what's the biggest size door you could construct with this method, was considering a large wardrobe door. Thanks again
Biggest I’ve done were 2200 x 550 or thereabouts. No issues at all. 👍
Can't find a groove bit that is 3/4" deep anywhere.. I have done this style door using your method with a half inch deep groove and it came out great! I am worried about premature wear or failure because I need a deeper groove for more surface contact for the glue. Where can I find this?
I buy mine from Wealden Tools - there are links in every video description to tools used or featured in the video 👍
Hi Peter,
Thank you for the video I am starting to get more aspirational with my DIY but do not have all the usual workshop kit. I am going to give the shaker style doors a go but only have a handheld palm router (although it has a plunge attachment, etc.). I have not used the router much, do you thing this will do the job? Or is it the case that if don’t have a router table I should be doing the plant on rails and style 6mm onto a 15mm sheets you demo in your other doors video?
Keep up the great work. I subscribed this morning.
Hi and welcome. No, I’m afraid I wouldn’t recommend any hand-held router for this kind of groove cutting, and especially not a palm router as they tend not to have enough of a base to keep it steady and safe. You’re probably better planting-on 6mm rails and stiles over a 12mm board (or 15mm if you can source it) and paying particular attention to the edges when glueing up 👍👍
Wow I was not expecting a reply so quickly. I’ll give the plant on ones a go and eye up a router table for the future.
Thanks for the feedback, it is very much appreciated.
If you haven't got the tools , there is an easier way . Just cut a piece to the exact size of your door , then cut your styles and rails and stick them on top flush to your edges . And paint , will look exactly the same .
Use a kreg jig faster and requires minimal skills.
Just wondered what bit & arbor you used on the router for cutting the slot for the panel, as having great difficulty finding one.
Links are in the video description 👍👍 Heavy duty groover - goo.gl/Ht1TU4
Arbor for above - goo.gl/xdE9PU
@@10MinuteWorkshop Brillant thanks so much, and speedy reply, your videos are brillant, thank you
Quick question, what kind of paint did you use? Did you spray it on? How did you do the interior corner, I have had issues with the paint sticking.
+upsd402 I almost always use a water-based acrylic, applied with a foam roller. Check out my Painting and Finishing series for lots more info 👍
Peter the festool setup you have as a saw bench with the hinged rail - how do you do this? Is it something bespoke or can you buy off the shelf? Just setting up my own workshop for some DIY projects and love the look of this setup. Cheers Dave
Dave Fellick It's a totally off the shelf solution from Festool, they call it a Multi Function Table, or MFT; the current version is the MFT-3 - not cheap, I'm afraid, but a very useful solution, especially for a small workshop!
In Belgium, at least in my region, I cannot get 6 mm mr-mdf, only 9 mm. Will a 9 mm groove weaken the rails and styles too much? If so, I'll need to use 6 mm normal mdf? Thanks!
No, a 9mm panel in a 22mm rail/stile makes for a nice solid door. If you’re using 18mm for rails/stiles then go for regular 6mm MDF. The most benefit from MR MDF is on the cut edges, rather than the face, so a regular MDF panel will usually do fine as the edges are enclosed. 👍
I've not made them any other way since first seeing this video
How are they holding up? 🤔😂👍
Absolutely perfect
@@10MinuteWorkshop
Hi Peter. Love the videos and I hope you will continue posting them. Can you tell me where you bought your staple gun from and the brand name as I am after one? Also those metal wall fixing plates look useful can you advise of a supplier? Many thanks and keep up the good work.
Hi, and thanks! The stapler I have is a Maestri ME 606/4 nailer/stapler, I bought mine from www.spotnails.co.uk. Great piece of kit, bullet-proof! Sorry, not sure what wall fixing plates you mean - which video were they in? P
Would this be appropriate for larger doors at 1800 long or would that be prone to cupping in a few years after being fitted I’m 20 and have got a homer to build a built in wardrobe in the next month or so? Thanks.
Yes, I’ve made lots of doors that size - have a look through the act catalogue, every wardrobe panel door in these videos is made this way. Critical thing is to use 22mm MRMDF for the rails & stiles - I switched from 18mm after I had issues with doors bowing. 22mm with a 6mm panel is great though! 👍👍
Thank you very much that’s a big help
@@campbellbarclay2000 No problem; there's an updated version of this video out soon, btw, so watch out for that one. 👍
Hi Peter, great video. I have to make a bespoke set of doors to fit an opening. Just wondering how much bigger than your opening do you make your doors? It is two seperate openings, one door for each
Hi James, and thanks! I try and keep the gap between the door at around 2mm, and I prefer to keep the doors flush with the outer edges of the carcass if it’s freestanding, or 2mm between the carcasses if it’s in a run. Hope that makes sense! 👍
Hi what thickness is the mdf you are using please ?
22mm MR MDF - rail & stile
6mm panel
1/4” grooving bit
~20mm deep groove. It's all in the video.👍
Hi Peter, I'm using your method and everything works fine when putting the rails/stiles/panel together dry. Upon adding glue, however, I'm finding that the rails and stiles are popping out and even with 4 clamps i can't seem to get them to stay flush - do you have any suggestions on how to remedy this? Thanks.
+Emma Withers Hi Emma. That's weird. Because I use a 1/4" grooving bit with a 6mm panel I sometimes get a slight misalignment, but it's usually easy to sand out. The other option is to put a clamp across the faces of the rails & stiles, then clamp them up to bring the rails and stiles together in the usual way - does that make sense? If it doesn't I'll draw something out and put it on Dropbox. Or do a quick video
about it... 😄
How did the MDF paint on the ends? I know it's much better than plywood, that would probably require a veneer or something though huh?
Good tutorial. Thanks.
LightGesture Hi. MR MDF paint up very nicely. I'll be doing a painting & finishing video soon 👍
Do you think this way of making doors would work with poplar stiles and rails along with an MDF panel?
Sure. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thanks 👍 I'll give it a go. I usually use dominoes for timber doors but don't have the right size and didn't really want to break the bank and buy an 18mm or 22mm sheet of MDF 🙄
Cheers for the nailer info Peter. The plates were used in the fitted bookshelf video. They were fixed to the back of the carcasses and you drill through the carcasses and through the plates to fix the carcasses to the wall. Cheers Terry
treesa greensa Ah, OK. They're regular 'corner plates' from Screwfix, I think, maybe Toolstation. Widely available, anyway 👍
Do you own a miter saw ? I don't think I've ever seen you use one
Yep, I’ve had a Kapex for many years, and it has featured now and then; trouble is the kind of cuts you make on a mitre saw are rarely very interesting, visually, so it doesn’t show up that often. 🤷♂️👍
Lumber prices have tripled in the last month.
Yep.
Not sure how long you been wood working? But anytime you make a panel door onle the rails and stiles are the only thing glued the panel just rides in the slot most people put small rubber like bbs to hold the panel in the center. as the humidity changes the panel can move. Maybe the mdf isnt as prone to swell as real wood but I would still do right.I would never make anything other than a few shop jigs from MDF no mater how well I was paid. People judge you from the work you do and how well it holds up. Even if only to be painted I would use a less exspencive woood such as pine. also you can make some real nice raised panel on the tablesaw alone as well. To me this is walmart quality furniture. Sorry not trying to put you down to bad but you are teaching in this video so thats why I called out the glue.
Woodworking professionally? Just completed my 18th year, thanks for asking. I've made literally thousands of panel doors from MR MDF for clients this way, without any issues. Certainly, if I was using a natural timber the panel would be left loose to allow for movement, but MR MDF has zero movement under normal conditions where I live and work, so gluing the panel in *is* doing it right. Totally agree that people can judge you by how well your work holds up, and I have an 18-year-long history of repeat work for private and commercial clients who are very happy with what I do...
FWIW using a tablesaw to make a raised panel would have my workshop shut down and my insurance yanked in a heartbeat - totally against all the Health & Safety regs to use an unguarded blade here in the UK.
Thanks for watching.
You only need to leave room for movement if the material are dissimilar and will expand/contract at different rates. If you needed to leave room when attaching MDF to MDF, then the very existence of MDF would be a problem since mdf is just wood dust glued together.
as I said maybe its not as prone AS REAL WOOD! I my self would turn away work if it is not something I would own. But if it was real wood with grain you woould never glue the panel. OH yes I have made lots of cabinet doors infact I grew up in a cabinet shop and been woodworking for 20 plus myself. I am sorry if I hurt you feelings but I just hate to see real craftsmanship die. MDF in furniture and cabinets are junk!!
It's not just mdf. If your panel was made of jointed real wood and it was the same species as your rails/stiles you could also just glue it in. You only have to leave room for movement if you're using different materials, like oak stiles/rails and a veneered/plywood panel or poplar stiles and a pine panel.
In correct!!!! if it is a panel door made with grained wood even if its th same wood the panel can expand and crack or crack around the stiles next to the rail. The grain on the panel is running up and down same as the stiles however the rails are going the other way and won't expand the same direction. So if you got a lot of humidity the panel pushes out on stiles and the rails push in on the panel it can crack or warp. Besides where can the panel go if its in a frame? A waste of glue besides being incorecct.
Hi Peter, many thanks for posting this, just finished a Mock-up using some 6 and 18mm MDF offcuts. I had to use an improvised offset 4mm biscuit joint router cutter in my table, then invert the panel to get a finished 6mm slot, 12mm deep in the 18mm, glued up and 'hung' just to see how well it worked. as it turns out, VERY well indeed!
Which then got me thinking, ever considered attempting this with 6 and 18 (or 22mm) Birch Ply? That could look rather stunning with a couple of coats of varnish.
+John Williams Pleasure - good to hear it worked well for you! No, I’ve never tried it with Birch Ply, but it is in my ‘one day when I have a minute’ list! Cheers, P 👍
Great video, I was looking to make doors for my kitchen , this looks like the easiest way there is indeed!
how thick are the groove cut outs? I think the tongue&groove router cutters you use are really really expensive, I already have Trend 9.5mm rebate router bit, do you think it would be fine to use that? I would use them on 20mm pine.
Tom B. Thanks. The heavy duty grooving bits I use are designed just for grooving, and last a long time; a rebating bit will generally be made for rebating, not grooving, so I wouldn't expect it to give as good a finish on both sides of the groove, though it's not something I've tried. You'll probably need to make shallower cuts over several passes in natural timber e.g. Pine, and be careful of tear out on the ends of the rails. The grooved I use produces a 1/4" (6.4mm) groove to a Maz depth of ~22mm or so - full specs on the link in the description. HTH Peter
Peter, it appears that all your doors have square edges. Do you ever bevel the latch, hinge, or all edges of the doors that you make?
+Kam Leo Never have done, no.
is that regular MDF or refined MDF/HDF
It’s MR MDF, or Moisture Resistant - better quality board for not much more money. 👍👍
I like the. Very straightforward. Far better than the normal mortise and tenons joints. I also like your use of the Fesool track as a boss cut device. I will use both of the ideas.
Thanks! 👍
Very nice video and work! But also I love your little modified sanding block or disc made out of a discarded(?) sanding pad! I am copying that right away!
Thanks! Yes, that and a whole host of others in my Sanding Tips Video #028 👍
Good video and good method Peter! The last kitchen I built I used mdf with tongue and groove which resulted in too much extra effort. Next time I'll try this method.
Thanks! Be sure to check out the rest of my vids - I've done a couple more door types since this one.
I've got to ask , why?
Why not just put a shorter slot and no tennon so you have a neater outer edge and no tennon hole to fill. Seems a bit overkill.
Sorry, I don’t understand what you don’t understand. A shorter slot and no tenon - how would you join the rail & stile?
@@10MinuteWorkshop surely glue. Glue in the slot and then the panel would hold everything together. Then glue on the face of the rail and style.
Just a query as I've never seen this method before.
No, a butt joint between the rail and stile would never be strong enough - feel free to try it yourself! The point of this loose tenon technique is speed and efficiency; by simply continuing the groove the full length of the stile, and on three edges of the rail, and your loose tenon made from the panel material you have a fast strong door in minutes. Cut your loose tenon accurately and there won’t be any gaps to fill. 👍👍
Great video. I have made 19 cabinet doors for our kitchen based on the video. Thanks for sharing the video. I used 18 mm MR mdf for the styles and 9 mm panels. I have rounded all edges before glueing it together.
That's fantastic to hear, really pleased that my video has helped in some way. Bet the last one went quicker than the first! Thanks so much for letting me know! Peter 😃👍
Hi Peter, just been watching this again as I'm looking to make two pairs of doors for alcoves that have adjustable shelving in my office. Most helpful - thanks. Each door will need to be ~2400mm high and ~490mm wide and I was thinking of adding extra rails and increasing the number of panels in each door, partly for aesthetics but also to stiffen things up a bit. What minimum thickness of material (MR MDF) would you suggest for the rails and stiles given the height of the door? Thanks, Simon
Thanks Simon! At that height I wouldn’t consider anything les than 22mm thick for the rails & stiles. 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thanks Peter. I have something of a reputation for over-engineering things like this so was all geared up to bond two layers of 25mm together. I'll ease off a bit ;-)
Hi Peter, thanks for the excellent video. I'm wondering if you may be able to help with an issue I've had. I've just made my first doors using this method and was pretty chuffed with them for a first effort. However, each door varies in width by up to 1mm - a lot when aiming for a 3mm gap between doors. They're about 2 metres tall and have rails at top, bottom and middle. I'm pretty sure the reason for the discrepancy is the fact that I cut the 6mm panel to 2mm narrower than the total width between the grooves, thinking it'd be wise to allow 1mm either side wiggle room. As these are full length wardrobe doors, I believe that the stiles wandered very slightly off straight during the glue up which couldn't have happened if I'd cut the panels to be exactly the size between the grooves. Perhaps the obvious solution would be what I've just mentioned; however, allowing zero wiggle room between the panel and grooves might be tricky to achieve given my fairly modest skills! Thank you and sorry for the essay. Jack
I always allow a bit of wiggle room for the panel, but you need to be careful to only clamp them up across the rails, otherwise you can pull the stiles out of shape yourself. Sometimes a good idea to make the doors slightly oversize and trim them back to fit with a tracksaw. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop thanks Peter. I did clamp up only across the 3 rails so perhaps my stiles deviated by a mm or so in width and that was responsible. First project with my Evolution track saw with 2.8m rail which I was really disappointed with so have returned. A shame all the others on the market are so much more! Thanks again
Fantastic video. However....Peter i need your help! Im making these doors for my friend in his kitchen. Also he wants end panels with v grooves and filler pieces. My question is, do i need to use moisture resistant mdf for doors, panels, and filler pieces? Where do you buy uour mdf from? And what thickness would you reccomend for all pieces? Im sorry to ask so many questions but your the mdf King! Your videos are amazing....thanks. Hope i hear back.
Thanks Chris! I buy from a local timber yard (ajferguson.co.uk) who are excellent, but MR MDF is widely available in Britain - stores like Wickes stock it - and is a better quality board generally, but particularly for use in kitchens and bathrooms. It’s well worth searching out IMHO. I generally use 22mm for the rails and stiles and 6mm for the panel, though I’ve used 18mm for the rails/stiles before on smaller doors without any problems. The v-groove (sometimes called butt & bead, TGV or matchboard) you can either buy ready made in sort or long orientation, or you can make your own with a router if you need e.g. specific spacing. HTH Peter. 👍
Peter Millard Thank you so much for replying! Amazing info. If i use 22mm thick for rails and stiles then would i also use 22mm for any end panels and fillers? To keep uniform thickness for asthetics? The v grooves in for end panels and is just a visual asthetic and ill do it with the router as you suggest. Look forward to your reply. Thanks. Ill be asking you many more questions in the future as im just starting my woodworking journey.
Absolutely brilliant! I have just discovered your chanel. Can you make the same doors in the exact same way using timber and plywood or a combination of timber for the rails and stiles and MDF for the panel? I can't recall if you mentioned what thickness of MDF you used. Can you please confirm this? Thanks and keep up the good work.
MA - Michael Thank you! I'm only ten weeks or so into a year-long UA-cam experiment, so appreciate the feedback! I used MRMDF throughout in this video, 22mm for the rails and stiles, and a 6mm panel, as this makes a solid, but lightweight door. Yes, you can absolutely use this technique for solid timber doors, but if you live in an area of high humidity, or with large changes in humidity between seasons, leave the panel unglued to allow for movement. Thanks for watching. P
Doors built this way with a MDF panel glued to the frame are very, very strong. Peter was able to do this because MDF is very stable and he used similar materials in both the frame and panel. If you start mixing your materials they are likely to have different rates of change from humid to dry and they may tear joints apart over time.
If you replace the MDF panel with wood then the panel should be loose (not glued). Not glueing the panel will reduce the strength of the door to the point where I would be inclined to want much deeper tenons then what was used in this video. I probably would resort to dowels in that case.
Peter,
Do you think it would be acceptable to make these doors out of ¾" MDF? In the States the closest we have to 22mm MDF is 1" or 25.5mm.
I just made a test door out of the 1" MDF and I can't decide if it looks too thick or not. I'm going to make another one out of the ¾" MDF to compare.
For those in the US that want to make these doors I did find a router bit that will cut a slot 1 5/64" deep. It is very expensive though (close to $100) . By adjusting the router fence it would give a ¾" deep slot. Here is the link to it: www.cmtutensili.com/show_items.asp?pars=RB~8/922.033.11B#
I used a much cheaper ½" deep slot cutter giving me a tenon of 1" and the doors seem quite strong.
Thanks Peter, loving your channel.
Hi Kevin, and thanks! 3/4” (18mm) works fine for smaller doors - I had a few issues with full-size wardrobe doors bowing, but never on regular cabinet doors. I’ve had other subscribers in the US tell me that 22mm (7/8th) MDF is available, just not that common - it’s worth searching out, if you have the time; I found 25mm a bit too heavy - sure is solid though! BTW I’ve made plenty of doors with a 1/4” x 1/2” depth groover - works great, I just prefer a bit more depth for bigger doors, so it makes sense to standardise on one bit for everything. 👍👍
Peter Millard Argh! I'm half way through making some wardrobe doors in this fashion, approx 2000x375mm (8 of the them!). Rails and stiles all cut to 80mm but in 18mm MR, and now I see this comment! Hoping to get away with it, will do the first coat of primer on both sides at the same time, and use 4 hinges per door. Fingers crossed! Any tips on keeping them from bowing would be gratefully received!
Great idea for the loose tenons.....