no, I think we all know that IBIS is excellent. But tests with the internal mic would be interesting. Also compared to a lavalier mic And visibility of the screen in bright sunlight for photography. With and without anti-glare protector.
The segment with your wife helps this camera to make some amount of sense. I can understand that a traditional camera may feel too complicated and difficult to use for some people, and having a camera like this as a simple starting point into a system as they learn makes a lot of sense. That being said, when we examine this logic further it starts to fall apart: 1: The camera menus look like an exact replica of the S5 II, which even from an enthusiast perspective are overwhelming in the beginning just in terms of the sheer amount of features they have. Please let me know if this is inaccurate but from every demonstration I've seen they look exactly the same. 2: Many of the main compromises for this camera don't actually make it simpler to use. - Removing a mechanical (or even EFC) shutter doesn't make the camera simpler. If anything, a mechanical shutter would make it simpler as users can stick the shutter into auto mode and then they won't have to worry about weird banding that shows up or turning on deflicker modes in the menu and the hassle that comes up with these :) - Artificial recording time limits don't make a camera simple to use, they introduce a cumbersome hassle as new creators might have to throw away good takes they were in the middle of because the camera stops recording halfway through. Letting people record until the camera overheats is something consumers understand and would prefer. The original S5 also didn't have a fan and the body was about the same thickness but didn't have any major issues with overheating anyway, even without the 10 minute record limit. - Removing a hot shoe doesn't make a camera simpler as consumers who don't want to use it will probably never take off the cover. It just means that this camera can't be used with additional accessories like the Lumix XLR adapter or other powered accessories (like flashes) if the user wants to grow into their equipment in the future. 3: The cost saving measures make the camera feel like a bad value. - There is no way that removing an EVF, physical shutter mechanism, headphone port, hotshoe, most of the physical controls, all weather sealing, thermal control, dual card slots, full HDMI, and replacing build components with plastic would only save Lumix $300 vs the S5 II. You can argue that the S9 is built this way to save costs, but then it still doesn't feel like it warrants a $1500 price point. This camera feels like it was built in such a way to sustain a $999 price point and then they added another $500 on top of it either so they can slash the price later or keep margins artificially high in the off chance that it is a hit. 4: The pancake lens that comes with this is an absolute joke. - A plastic manual lens with an f8 aperture that can't be adjusted with no lens cap or filter threads is the kind of thing some off brand Chinese manufacturer would make for $50, not a first party product. - An f8 manual focus lens is not something that would make a new user happy who just spent $1500 on a dedicated camera that now takes worse quality images than their phone. - There are no other lenses that are small enough to warrant a camera with no grip for L Mount. Even the X100 series and the ZVE1 have small grips. Despite ALL of these issues I don't think this camera is uninteresting or that there isn't any hope for its success. I think the LUT features have potential, even if they are also too clunky to implement for new users and Lumix really missed the boat by not including many fun high quality ones in camera. I also genuinely think if this were priced at $1k It would make for a fun walk around daily carry camera, even without many of the features I would want. I am sure we will get there in the future, or close to it. I think a bigger issue is that the Lumix S1 series is over 5 years old now and still have not had a replacement. The L Mount can't be sustained by only oddball cameras from Sigma/Blackmagic, $5k+ specialist Leica cameras, and entry level Lumix. We need a good mid range lineup to keep people interested and feel like they made a good decision. That isn't this camera's fault, it's an issue with Lumix. But it's still why a lot of people are mad. If this camera came out after an S2H and S2R, no one would be upset at all.
From the presentation of LUMIX I immediately understood what the target market for this product is. But watching the reviews I think the creators did not. The part with your wife clearly shows what should be talked about. Still I think not having a matching lens - with autofocus - during launch is not clever. Also I would have added a „green setting“ (auto everything) as we used to have on older DSLRs, just because it is aimed at beginner level users. The LUT thing is killer! I hope this is what is picked up in the long term reviews. (And it would be great if we would get also more LUT slots on the S5 II, and all the improved LUT features)
Maybe I need to do a follow up review and have my wife review it instead of me haha. I wish they would have launched with the 18-40mm lens. It'll have AF. Auto button that's more clear as well would be nice.
I saw no less then 10 people saying they were leaving Panasonic because of this release and that was before the drama, citing reasons like “they’ve lost their way” Such a bizarre situation and I’m really glad you made this video man.
Very bizarre people are impatient, but I get it. I was impatient with the Sony A7SIII, bought a LUMIX and am honestly happier with it. So in a way it can be a good thing to try other systems to figure out what's really important to you in a camera
I rather them loosing their way a bit, them Panasonic axing the whole lumix division because of low sales. The S9 is a very smart move to get a bit of market share that helps develop the next flagship S camera
Think those who left Lumix only got onto Lumix as the S5ii/x was being talked lots. Being camera of the year. Those people are brand jumpers only buying a camera so they can do a YouTub video about it and get views. They want to make themselves a product so it's about how they feel not actually about the camera itself.
This is the conundrum for me with this camera. If it’s aimed for amateurs, will they ever need or appreciate the full frame, 6k open gate, real time luts, etc? Why would an amateur want anything more than a smaller, lighter, cheaper, apsc camera with 4k? (Like a Ricoh gr, Fuji xe4, Sony 6700) And if the goal is for them to grow to appreciate those aspects of the camera. Once they get to that point in their experience, then the lack of evf, the lack of hot shoe, no mechanical shutter, no headphone jack, the crappy 26mm f/8 lens, all start to matter. Compromises aimed at amateurs, with benefits aimed at professionals. So if the target demographic is amateurs, maybe don’t ask if the compromises are acceptable, ask if the benefits are necessary.
Because it’s cheaper for the to use the existing S5II sensor, then to develop a new “lower-spec” sensor for dumb-down camera. It’s actually amazing they didn’t cripple any of the capabilities of the S5II with “software”. The only limitations compared to the S5II are hardware related, the recording limits are because of overheating, and won’t be surprised if they extend those limits on the first firmware update, with more time of testing in their R&D and in the wild
@@9adriano21most of the problems with this camera can be traced back to the decision to go with a FF sensor, which is unnecessary for most people, let alone beginners. It's just marketing, but people are gullible and believe it's what makes a good photo, no skill required. Even a M4/3 sensor would have been good for the target market. Smaller sensor= - lower price - less overheating, so longer or no recording limits - space for a viewfinder within the lower price. - space for a mechanical shutter And the way the LUTs options have been implemented is just so over the top. Especially for a beginner, but also a more advanced user would spend less time fiddling round with apps and the camera wasting both batteries, and would just apply their own presents in their RAW editor of choice. It's like the ZF all over again, a camera that doesn't know what it is or who it is for. Panasonic made a really expensive advertisement for Fuji, basically.
@@brownbear100 the market wants full frame, going for a MFT camera right now would not gain any market share, mainly existing MFT enthusiasts would get it
If it’s aimed for amateurs, then why bother invited all those camera nerds/reviewers? Why didn't they invite some 'real' tiktokers/IG reels/YT vlogger? What's the point of a reviewer if not to talk about all the specs, technicality, and all geeky stuffS? This is not about the camera. This is about the marketing campaign.
It seems like it would make more sense for this camera to have been a micro 4/3 driving the cost down even lower for the "non professional". Why would someone making "non professional" work need a full frame sensor?
I was wanting the S9 or something like it for my wife. She only wants to take photos and make short videos of the kids. She likes the colors and simple design.
Yeah. That's what the camera is for. It's not a pro camera as such. Why so many people thinking it is has me wondering if some people just wanna dislike Lumix 😆
THIS. I haven't finished watching the video yet, but my biggest issue with the camera when it was first released was how receptive people who weren't in the camera space would be. So thank you for bringing your wife. Exactly the content/opinion I was looking for.
There's definitely an argument that there's a better camera out there for her as a beginner, but then I'd have buy lenses for that camera so it could end up costing more in the long run since I already have a bunch of l mount lenses. But even still it's just to get the point across that there's different markets out there
@@DustinArmstrongPro agree with your points. That was my point on Twiiter. Smartphones exist, for example. But I also don't think Lumix isn't smart enough to do market research. Anyway, well said. Subbing to the channel now!
yeah look what was happended to Robin Wong. Camera manufactures definately need better marketing department or maybe they could make better strategy with GenAI 🤑
Thank you Dustin. Thank you for standing up at a time like this. Love following your work. Maybe you could come to Indonesia someday. Lots of great stuff to see and do here.
As a fan of LUMIX objectively I have to say that a non-professional will buy sony zv-e10, because he doesn't need VLOG and other semi professional stuff at a fraction of the price of s9 with cheaper lenses.
Dustin you're a great and honest when presenting lumix, so far. Actually I tried lot to mimic what you are doing with Lumix. You're our lumix inspiration. Pls just avoid what other fan boys videos. We know those wont accept Lumix.😂
And I hope if I ever overhyped something or are dishonest, I'm called out for it. There's still space for more creators in the LUMIX space! Glad I can be an inspiration🙏
It is important to note, that when LUMIX talked to Gerald about not going to Japan, he asked them, if they could brief him on the camera, so he could “make his own assessment on it”. They acquiesced this request, gave a product briefing to Gerald, and Gerald then agreed that this camera was not interesting to him. They then later offered to send Gerald a camera for review, but Gerald declined this offer. All of this, Gerald says himself at minute 33 in the video interview named “Lumix S9: The Odd State of Camera Reviews”, but he conveniently left out of his temper tantrum video.
Wasn’t that what he wanted? “Send me gear for reviews, but if I go on paid trips, it will only be for the plane ticket and hotel, because I ain’t gonna do any events”? Then what exactly is he mad at lumix for?
@@CountSwagulaI think he mad because the company pusses out not sending him S9 for knowing that he will trash the camera as it is. They even want to know before hand what is the title of the review before sending him one. That what he mad about the company mistreating him directly. And the other stuff he talked about. You should check out his video too. It’s quite fun when someone single handily make the big company looking like cons. 😂
@@DustinArmstrongPro haha nahh… they didn’t send me an S9 because they knew I’d rip into it. (Completely kidding) That comparison would nauseate me anyways. But seriously though, I love your candor and humility.
Great point. Good thing you did this. All the drama by other UA-camrs just because they think it needs to have more than 30 minutes of recording or the viewfinder. For the new UA-camrs I think this is great. I’m not a UA-camr and I don’t thinks I ever recorded more than 5 minutes. Great job.
Did you ask your wife how many $1500 cameras she has purchased? People who don't know about cameras don't really buy them, they buy smart phones. So that whole approach is kind of disingenuous. In today's economy people should only spend $1500 on a camera if they intend to learn how to use it and it's not great to learn on something with most features removed and regulated to menus they can't understand. They brought pros to the event so their audience are pros, not the wives and husbands of pros who don't shoot.
I had never bought a camera before I went out and dropped $800 on a rebel t3i kit ($1100 in today's money). That's what entry level is, the point at which someone decides to set some money aside to start the hobby.
@@karikaru exactly you bought a t3i, not a G9 or whatever under featured yet expensive camera they were also selling at the time. You bought the one with the buttons and headphone jack and features you can grow into. What made you do that vs getting a truly entry level camera with all those things removed? Canon was selling one at the time, why didn’t you buy that?
Likely will be the last time I comment on anything. I've said what I said, I stand behind it, likely won't change. I just want to make videos for people like you that just enjoy the videos. Appreciate you🙏
First I'm a limux lover, second I believe we make the brands. They literally didn't exist without the consumer. I like hype channels but we as the consumer need the fair and balanced channels first. That being said i do believe a company can put their ad dollars where it best suite them. They are in the business to make money. The problem i have after that is when it becomes a spin campaign to dupe the very customer that gives them the ability to exist. That's the American business model sell them junk and act like it's gold. I think the business should have the humble mentality over the consumer as they want to sell to us. They have the burden of delivering what the consumer wants, not the consumer having the burden of being a good purchaser of their products. The main wai we get around that is to have fair assessments of the product and go out from there.
I am a hobbyist who made the switch to LUMIX, and I couldn’t be happier. I now have a camera that checks all of the boxes for me. An S5II. I feel that LUMIX as a company, has the best ibis in the game, has an easier menu system, firmware updates that are often a surprise that make my camera even better, and weekly tutorials that show you how to use, and how to get the best results from your camera and why. Ohh, and best of all, I feel you get a great value! This is what makes me love LUMIX, and my camera so much. This is my opinion that I came to on my own. Will I buy another camera in the future? Most likely, and it will be a micro 4/3 for bird photography, and it will be a LUMIX. Also, if a company sends people on a free paid trip for them to use and promote their product, who cares. And if someone didn’t get an invite, I could also care less. They could also get a real job and maybe get invited to a company picnic. Enjoy what you have. Buy what works for you.
Your wife's perspective was useful, however my guess is she doesnt need 6k opengate recording, or even 4k and most probably has no knowledge of LUT's, so she most likely wont drop 1.5k on a small hand held camera. Which again makes me ask, who is going to buy the S9? I cant see many uploaders dropping their phones to get a S9. So sales me not be great for Panasonic. Im a Lumix fan and own a FZ2000, a GH5, a S1 and a S5iix but i dont think Panasonic did themselves any favours with this camera.
I watched you S9 video and did not see any disclosure about your trip to Japan being paid by Panasonic. Unless I missed the disclosure, can you share why you don't believe you need to share that information with your viewers?
@@DustinArmstrongPro Thanks, glad to hear it and I did miss it. From the FTC guidelines on disclosures: "Place it so it’s hard to miss. Disclosures are likely to be missed if they appear only on an ABOUT ME or profile page, at the end of posts or videos, or anywhere that requires a person to click MORE."
Great video and I like how open you are being about your views on cameras and YouTubing in general. I wish you all the best with your future content, you do a great job👍👍
The Panasonic S9 is a nice camera and even though I only had it for a few days, I enjoyed it. You had a good idea with your wife. I did something similar with my cousin who is a minor estate agent. A lot of smaller business owners like him like the S9 and find the price tag okay because they already have a new iPhone that costs similar. But this one is just as small yet much more powerful and fun.
I honestly don’t get why there’s drama. Don’t like the camera, just get on with your life and watch something else. If you do, then cool! I like the camera, regardless of its limitations. Preordered it the day of release. Honestly wild there’s so much drama around this. Good video man hope to meet you one day and have some fun shooting Lumix stuff 🎉
I'm with you. Don't like it, don't buy it. Don't like the content made about it, don't watch it. If you're ever at NAB, you can find me sprinting everywhere trying to find cool gear
@DustinArmstrongPro If the content is false advertising, then telling people to not criticize a product, stop watching and move on is kinda irresponsible to say for you as an influencer. I'm not saying the content we saw was actually dishonest, but it is absolutely valid for people to care whether they're being manipulated by marketing practices or not. It's not the product that's being hated per se - it's how it's being promoted using the same channels as all the actually competitive gear targeted at geeks and professionals.
That's why I bought the Canon R8 - the perfect size/features for the person I gave it to, even though it made a couple of some compromises. Great content, your wife is awesome!
Great to bring on an example of the S9’s “target market”. I think that if Panasonic had left out the S9’s SD slot and included memory instead, more reviewers would have gotten it - the S9 is aimed at phone users, creating short videos and using their phone to edit and share and not a laptop or pc. It will be interested how many phone users are willing to add the complexity of an S9 to their workflow.
I think the hate towards the Lumix S9 is actually blowback from the Insta360 X4 debacle. For those unaware a bunch of influencers were caught up in a scandal where Insta360 asked them to not disclose they were sponsored. Many of the most popular “camera gear reviewers” had to go back and quickly add to videos that they were sponsored after releasing initial reviews without noting this critical fact. So now many “influencers” are trying to clear their names by attacking the Lumix S9. After all it’s easier and safer for their futures to go after Lumix rather than Sony, Canon or Nikon. This video points out clearly the target audience for this camera, folks looking to upgrade from their phone cameras, while the haters are attacking because it’s not “professional”. It’s low hanging fruit where they can say “See I’m really not just a shill making commercials for my own benefit, I’m an Honest Reviewer”. While not angering their benefactors
I agree with your missus, I have several cameras including film, but I like to shoot from the hip, and to coin a phrase, the best camera is the one you have with you. My next camera will be either S9 or Leica D-lux 8, I’m leaning more to the Leica.
Oddly enough Gerald’s vid on the s5 episode s why I own one and your channel is one of my faves because of shared passion for lumix. I understand Gerald’s point and I appreciate your perspective.
This whole S9 situation has been crazy. Personally I can't see a market for this camera, at least here in Australia. While yes its quite cheap for a FF camera, it isn't cheap enough. Here in Australia you can currently get an A7Cii for pretty much the same price as the S9 or even get an S5ii for cheaper than the S9. With the lack of a metal construction, weather sealing, mechanical shutter, EVF, headphone jack and HOTSHOE(The worst admittance this camera has in my opinion) I can't see where the savings has gone as its still quite an expensive camera. When you have cameras like the A7Cii, ZVE1, older cameras or APSC/M43 cameras that offer more of those features for the same, close to the same or less I really can't see this camera being genuinely recommended to any market. Camera's cant be made to be solely focused on a singular use-case, as your wife says she doesn't have a use for many of the features, thats true. However, camera's are far too expensive to be as limited as the S9 is, it needs to justify itself as a tool thats greater than ones phone otherwise a general market won't purchase it, which is where the camera market is shrinking. That being said, the camera may very well sell well and a market may love it, and if it fills your needs and fits your budget thats great! This all being said, the Lumix event did feel especially odd. When a company invites 10s of people, creators and filmmakers to an international conference you expect to see a camera or technology that is truely innovative, like the S5ii was. The S9 is not innovative, its a decent camera that fits a very specific market but its using a very old sensor, old internals packaged into a tiny body and as a result it has pretty huge limitations. When Lumix has a large community of videographers and photographers who love their equipment and have been patiently waiting for the past year to see the phase detect autofocus to make its way to more pro focused bodies such as the S1R or S1H, holding such a huge event that not only excludes them but also brings out a product thats almost an insult to those users and without comment on what Lumix's plan for their pro bodies are you're going to get quite a bad knee jerk reaction from those users. Had they talked about what their plans were, or announced this camera the way they really should have, just a simple internet based release the S9 would have been received much better but because Lumix made such a song and dance about this released they really put a spotlight on themselves releasing a mediocre camera. It wasn't a wise move by Lumix.
All cameras are not made only for pro-UA-camrs or Photo-video professionals. I like you bring someone who is neither of those 2 groups and is the perfect target for the S9.
I think the drama is part the 360 thing, the marketing and cynicism of the public to companies and the influence on content creators. I wonder if the 9s was under a 1k, came with a decent small profile lens, we would have as much drama. I hear "Not for you camera" The problem was sending "photography" UA-cam content creators to Japan that were not in the market for this type of camera.perhaps as a secondary or third camera ( if that makes sense? ) Panasonic should have let TikToker and short content creative types test the camera out. I think most people just want the LUTS app and if they installed in on their phone, they be happy.
There were people there too who weren't just "photography" UA-camrs. But it also goes back to I don't want to say I know what's best for a company. I don't work there I just like their cameras. So yes I agree maybe it made more sense for short form creators to go to Japan, but I also make short form content too and a professional can 100% find a use case for this camera. This would be a great mountable camera on suction cups or just on the go b roll camera🤷
As much as I like Gerald and his video, he is a very technical guy, so much so, that his gripes and criticism of products is sometimes outside reality. There is not a single perfect camera for everyone. Not everyone cares or needs every minuscule detail. I find his video a bit high horsey, but maybe that’s just me. In the german community some people are envious and some seem to think that Lumix should have invited EVERY creator, which of course is absurd. I am not a Lumix exclusive shooter, which wasn‘t and isn’t a problem.
Yep I'm the same way. I like to learn the quirks and nuances of cameras from Gerald, but I don't buy cameras based on that. I don't know LUMIX's strategy when it comes to these events and I'm not the one to decide 🤷
I have seen so many reviews of the S9 and so many different opinions. Honestly for how I use my cameras, this is a nice option for me. I find it a bit pricey for what it is, and I think that's partially because I already have tools at my disposal that I can get by with. Why would I spend that kind of money on something I don't necessarily need. I'm not in any rush to upgrade. My biggest hesitation is lenses. I'd like something compact like the one everyone has been showing but I'd like an adjustable aperture and auto focus for those quick shots that you may not have time to mess with the manual focus. Nothing against manual focus lenses, I own a few and like them but only for certain situations. I even use my auto focus lenses in manual for certain scenarios. My three big reasons for liking the camera though, compact size, good image quality and connectivity for quick editing and sharing.
Thanks for sharing your opinion on this topic. I've watched Gerald's video and thought it was well reasoned, I also thoroughly enjoyed C Mackey's videos on the S9 and the other takes I've watched. I've been considering going from my Iphone to first mirrorless camera and seriously considering the S9 as a great entry option that I can learn and grow into, experiment with different lenses and find out what I like.
For the Lumix S9 Mark II launch in 2025, only the wives and girlfriends of UA-cam camera reviewers will be invited to Japan. :D I like how you are able to expand the discussion and include different perspectives. Most Lumix S9 critics only see this camera from a creator/professional photographer's point of view. There are more potential point & shoot camera buyers than professional camera buyers. Guess who Panasonic are targeting? I'm looking for the smallest and cheapest, best IBIS, full frame camera that has lenses cheaper than Nikon, Canon and Sony. I only see Lumix S9. And your video gets a like from me.
Great video 👏 I own an FX3 and pre-ordered the LUMIX S9. It's a different tool for a different purpose. I'm excited about the new app, LUT button, hybrid zoom, 65:24 aspect ratio and its small size. The FX3 can handle filming without recording limits and anything else I throw at it, but it's impractical to carry everywhere. The S9 is for me to take with me when I don't want to bother with carrying a larger camera.
Now I want to make a video titled saying “I’m a Lumix Shiller😂” Dude great transparent video! The S9 isn’t for everyone, and that’s okay! We need the new “beginners” to enter the Lumix ecosystem to start their path of cameras rather then trying to convince amateurs, semi pro and professionals to switch entire systems to Lumix. It is a great camera for what it is, we (the creators) know this camera has limitations and you can just guy the S5ii if you want more complex advance features. The S9 might not be for you, but as fans of Lumix this is a great camera for the new person who doesn’t need a more confusing camera. ((Yes I would personally love this camera way more if the record limit was 29:59 and it costed $1299))🤷🏼♂️
Well done Dustin, keeping your feet firmly on the ground. A good rationalisation of the issues. Unlike some who, if i’m honest, i’m a bit disappointed in on this platform regarding this matter. A lot of learning taking place and some seem to struggle with the concept of self reflection, doesn’t make them bad people of course, just means that they may need a little more time to adapt, we the viewers will still be here, subbing, liking, un-subbing, disliking, watching far too many hours of the tube and, well, just chilling whilst watching the tube for our own individual reasons, our viewing hours may just drift away from some and on to other channels for a while. But I can’t help thinking that now Lumix have adopted PDAF, and some no longer have that stick to hit Lumix with, there seems to be a need by some to create another narrative to hate on the Lumix brand with, they’re going after the ethics of the company in the hope of pulling the rug out from under the brand. For me these people are trying to make fools out of the very people whom, without, there would be no youtube, guess what, that’s the audience. Just be ethical, simple, or at least you’d think so right!!
Ive been looking for a camera as a gift for a beginner friend, mainly needs are a fun camera that shoot great jpegs, small size and good quality image mainly for travels. Now I am between S9 and a Fuji Xt50 (also haters dont like it), but I see them as a perfect fit for my friend. Agree, every product has its market and everyone has different necessities. I would have loved to see a small EVF on this one because I think it adds more fun to the process of taking photos, but it is what it is.
Thanks for your honesty. Owning your bias for a particular brand helps viewers judge your reviews better. What I don’t like are those creators who are showing aggressive contempt for their subscribers because they smell a rat in current camera marketing practices. Telling subscribers that they can just fuck right off or threatening to ban them if they don’t shut up is a death wish and they deserve to lose subscribers. A year from now no one will care all that much about the S9 but we will care about the credibility of camera reviewers. BTW the camera your wife needs is an iPhone. 😉
Nah look at the amount of views its been getting out on different videos it seems to look strong, i only needed some more digging into its compromises before I opened up to it. Its only now I learned that the pancake is included with the preorder.
Definitely looks like a paid bashing campaign led by chief paid Sony troll Gerald Undone. Even Craig at Canon Rumours got tired of him but nobody listened to him at that time because people don't like Craig or whatever. I'm totally done with Gerald Undone and all the brand bashers hating on the S9.
Going to watch the rest of the video but man your wife's review is honestly a mic drop. Perfectly encapsulates what Hugh Brownstone said, yeah there's all kinds of things that don't make sense to "pros" but we don't have access to Panasonic's market metrics and data. I'll be honest and say I'm not entirely sure Panasonic is going to capture the market they are going after, but they must have some numbers or metrics somewhere that says they have a chance given the specs and price point of the camera. Edit: Appreciate the transparency Justin, I'm not entirely sure where everyone got the idea that UA-camrs are "sainted objective Journalists". I watched another video where someone felt deceived by reviews they had seen because certain features didn't match their experience, and if that is truly the case that does suck, but I realized a long time ago UA-camrs don't and can't replicate MY use case for a camera or setup. And my experience may never match theirs, they have totally different needs from me, and as such I realize I won't really know what a piece of gear can do for me unless I try it and get it into my workflow. Reviews are good for general info, impressions, and honestly just fun. It's fun watching a content creator you follow enjoy using a new piece of gear. Been following you for a while because you were one of the only channels producing Lumix content, enjoy watching what you produce 👊
Exactly. We like to think we know, but ultimately the brand probably knows what's best. As soon as I saw the camera at the event, I said in my head "my wife's going to love this one"
Beautifully demonstrated the point. We spec nerds are just jealous because we now know what we want is a S9X not the S9! And they looked after normal people ahead of the camera nerds. 😢
3:08 the second question should be if she doesn’t have a professional husband, and she doesn’t care about all these features, will she actually buy and appreciate it? It’s so true that this market doesn’t exist yet, it’s a question whether this market will ever exist. It’s like trying to replace your phone, which has replaced so many cameras in the first place. I don’t know if it’s ironic or counterintuitive. 4:54 and your wife probably also doesn’t care about open gate, 6k or the awesome features this camera brings on the table. And she’s probably never gonna get the ZVE1 neither if you’re not the husband. So I really don’t know who this camera is targeting. It’s like I can totally appreciate the features of this camera which I don’t care about, so I’m never gonna buy it. That’s the problem.
Long wind here. One point you made in the video, and I think it's the biggest point Gerald made, is about who the company does and does not invite to these events. As of the moment, Panasonic has a tiny market share compared to the likes of Canon, Sony, and Nikon despite making some of the absolute best cameras money can buy. And it baffles me as to the idea that they would want to exclude potential skeptics from their event so it's basically an echo chamber of "shills" for their new product. I bought into the brand back in 2014 when the LX100 was released. And it is hands down my favorite camera of all time and to this day is obscure and overshadowed by the likes of the X100 and Leica Q. It had little to no hype or marketing campaign. It was just that damn good. I was using an X100 then and was so sold on the LX100, I switched. If I were in the marketing team that puts together these events, I would ensure that there were many potential converts at the event despite the chance they would have a negative view on the product. That is a display of confidence in their product that they will not only reach a new audience (which is a huge gamble since they're mostly phone users) but convert users from other brands while listening to constructive criticism and feedback. And I do think they missed the mark with this particular camera. They are never going to convert the X100 or Leica Q crowd, because this camera isn't like them at all except for it's size. Then let's say it was never meant to compete with those cameras. I think many people, myself included, were expecting a full frame LX100 that would compete with the Leica Q or basically (like the D Lux line) be essentially the same camera with a Lumix badge at half the price. Why the expectation? Precedent. Only the Leica Q occupies a full frame fixed lens in that space and needs a true competitor. A full frame LX100 has been asked for by many ever since Panasonic went consumer full frame. Why should people's expectations be criticized when it is Lumix that has set the bar for them with very high quality cameras? Uncharacteristic of a high end brand. The lack of features is simply something I don't expect from Lumix and therefore it isn't for me. I'm just going to get the S5II for those extra features. With the S9 I've heard a whole lot of "Well maybe it just wasn't made for you". So be it, but to that I ask: Who is it made for? The types they are apparently aiming for use their phones to create content and do not buy new cameras. Instead they're frugal and buy thrifted Y2K cameras. I hope it can hit the mark with casuals or as most have stated: content creators. But honestly, with that recording limit, I just can't see who it's for and as a genuine Lumix fan it's hard to spin it. The saving grace could be the LUT feature which in my mind is a game changer and has killed film simulations for good. I hope it's a feature that will be in every Lumix camera moving forward. End of the day, they might not owe us anything, but we don't owe them anything either. If this is indeed a miss for them, I really hope that Panasonic listens to feedback because in this industry that is shrinking year over year, these companies can't afford many failures, and I for one will not buy or promote a camera simply to keep a brand in business.
I think Panasonic has the right to invite whoever they see fit for their event, just like any person would have the right to invite whoever they want to their wedding. Some people get mad when they’re not invited to a wedding they expected to be invited to, and I think that’s all that has happened here. I love Gerald’s style of reviews, but let’s be real… It’s pretty apparent in his video that he’s a little salty for not being invited to this event, and the past couple of lumix events. While I believe that HE THINKS he’s solving a problem here, the problem never existed. It’s simple marketing. Lumix invited creators that are a better fit for this camera. Nothing wrong with that. Let them have good marketing behind their products so that they can sell more cameras, and in turn make more cameras. It’s completely ethical, and it’s how a lot of big companies (inside and outside of camera products) market their products. I have not felt misled one bit in any of the creator videos I’ve watched. Some creators highlighted positives more that others and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The overarching problem is these camera review channels just aren’t supported by UA-cam as it was in the past. Whether it’s UA-cam, or maybe the viewers are oversaturated with this content, whatever it is, it’s pretty obvious that it’s a bit more slim pickens than it used to be. Love Gerald’s stuff, but why is he only critical of this situation now? He absolutely reaped the benefits of this system in the past.. in fact I just saw a video of him at NAB. Just a bit hypocritical of him… maybe just be comfortable with passing the torch, and getting it back every once in a while
It is refreshing when you clearly state you are a fan. I like to get both the perspective of people that try to be neutral and examine every aspect of every camera and also the perspective of the true fan that just finds one brand fun. Personally I get all giddy out of joy when I run after my crazy little 3 year old with a S5II in my hands and get super smooth footage thanks to the ibis. That kind of "fun factor" is beyond pure specs and it is the kind of thing that makes me into a fan of Panasonic. Your running around on NAB gives the same sense of joy. Who cares about specs then? If Panasonic got bött hurt over subtle criticism or word selection from Gerald perhaps that is an example of culture clash rather than sleazy marketing tactics. Sad either way because his review of the S5II was one of the reasons I bought it.
I've followed this conversation on a few channels. I strongly believe we are all part of a community here. The viewers, the content creators and the brands (manufacturers) We live in a time of instant news. Sharing information with a tap of a finger. Gone are the days of looking through a monthly magazine for product releases and reviews. ( my days 😂) Now social media is our space for information. " You the creators " I seen the S9 launch videos. Everyone gave their pros and cons, with the short time they had with the product " camera " We are all here because we love creating and sharing images. That's our community space. Information and brand competition gives us choices. Gerald started a conversation, I think to keep us grounded and give it a little extra thought before pressing the share bottom. Thanks for keeping it cool. In the end we all benefit by sharing our thoughts and information. Looking forward to more thoughts and reviews. I'm excited to see what Lumix has coming and All other "Brands" as well. We are all part of the same community. Cheers!
Dustin, great points made by you and Gerald Undone on this subject. I enjoy watching all of you creators discuss these Lumix products (I learn a lot more in a quick way) One thing that I notice is a lot of talk about the video aspect of cameras. As a Photographer, I always want to know if the camera takes a quality photo when I use it with whatever lens I choose. Sometimes the photo part (which is the primary use if a camera) is lost in the shuffle of the video specs. I am a Canon shooter too, but I also love my Lumix S1. Side by side they have their differences, but they work well for what I shoot (Concerts and Promo). I was going to get the S5IIX, but my Lumix DC S1 (which I bought when it was released) works so well, that I am getting another one used or not because of the overall quality. Anyway, thanks for doing this presentation. Looking forward to more from you in the future. Peace. ✌
I love Lumix cameras; I think they make the best bang for buck cameras on the market (except maybe for the S9) and I still use my G85 and love my new S5II but the S9 is an oddity. I think we all agree that this camera isn’t for everyone… but is it for anyone?? I'm not trying to be super critical, but I still don’t know who it’s actually for. OK... be honest, your wife might ‘prefer’ the S9 over the other cameras IF she had to choose between that or an S5II(X) (not that anyone is forced to make that choice) BUT would she actually buy one or would she just use her phone? I get it, she doesn’t need the features of an S5II or X but then she also doesn’t need most of the features of the S9. In my opinion most people who aren’t ‘into cameras’ like your wife who don’t need an EVF or a Hotshoe also don’t need real time Luts, they don’t need open gate 6k (or any 6k or probably even 4k) even for 10 minutes or whatever the time is, or vector scopes or shutter angle etc (or would even know what any of these functions are or how to use them) or even the ‘full frame look’. Let’s be honest, most people who aren’t into cameras just use their phone to shoot photos or videos because they're all so darn good now and that’s what killed the point and shoot market. Ultimately though I think the biggest issue for the S9 in finding a market is the price. In Australia the S9 is around $3k with a lens (or about $2.5k body only), for that price a 'point and shooter' could buy the latest iPhone outright (iPhone 15 Pro Max is $2,199 AUS), take great photos and videos and have all the other apps and functions that they might actually use on a smartphone over anything the S9 offers as listed above. To be fair, I give points to Lumix for trying something different, but I think they swung and missed with this one. Pros won’t buy it. If I was looking at buying a B or C cam I'd just pick up another S5II which is only around AUS $2,600 with a kit lens, and I dare say 95% of the old amateur point and shoot market will stick use their phones. They might have tried 'stepping up their game' at around $800 - $1000 odd AUS but not for $3k. Times are tough at least down under… I could be wrong, and time will tell, but I do think this camera is going to struggle to find a market. Too pricey for the amateur and too limiting (especially for the price) for the semi to pro user even though the size might work better for some shooting scenarios...
Yeah S9 is the first camera from LUMIX I'm like that is really close to the S5II. I mean she does use her phone, but ever since she's been around me watching me use my cameras, she's always had an interest in using them. But it's fair that she'd probably consider another one if it was her first given the price (and I mention that too, but just wanted to illustrate a point when it comes to comparing to LUMIX) Guess time will tell how well the camera sells.
@@DustinArmstrongPro Thanks for the reply. I think the real issue with the S9 is that this is a full frame camera in a point and shoot body. This impacts the price; it limits functionality and it's also counterproductive to the ergonomics given most L mount lenses will be massive and unbalanced on this body. I think Emily from Micro Four Nerds hit the nail on the head when she said she would rather have seen Lumix release something like this in M43 (well APSC would be nice, but Lumix don't play in that sandbox). It would totally make sense to release a M43 version with the G9II sensor. The price should be a lot more palatable, there should be less restrictions on record times and the lenses would fit much better ergonomically. If they could sell the M43 version for around the AUS $1500-1800 mark (or even less without a lens) I could see myself buying one as a C cam on a small gimbal like a Crane M3S (as I have done with my G85). I could also see enthusiasts being more tempted to up their game at that price. As it stands now though I'd be more likely to buy something like an A6700 APS-C camera over the S9 (and I'm generally not a fan of Sony cameras) as I can get one with a 16-50MM & 55-210MM for around AUS $2,380 which is much better suited for that kind of purpose. It has no limits on recording (except maybe 4k 120) although overheating can obviously be a factor, a mechanical shutter a hot shoe and it has an EVF albeit a crappy one or so I've heard. If you already have Sony glass you can get the body only for about AUS $1800 and from the reviews, I've seen it's much better value for beginners and pros than the S9. Just my opinion. Hopefully Lumix will release a M43 version (although they can't call it a G9) and if they do it might be something I'd look at getting.
Well said, as much i love lumix too this one i really can't find a way to defend them...they really confused themselves, its true about target audience, but they really need 6k open gate? Answer is No Personally i don't mind to not have mechanical shutter or hot-shoe but it would be atleast fair just to put atleast 4k 30 with no limits and call it day also target audience will be pleased But not with bait of coming interesting specs with huge unnecessarily limits, i know they done research and so forth but with this level of era and technology we have they deserve better.
No idea what the whole drama is about as I only saw a part of the video from Gerald undone and this video. Only thing I remember from there was something about how reviewers only get shown the positive stuff about the cameras and have to make a video + test the cam itself in a very short timeline. About your video, I do agree with you saying there is always a market for a camera. Not everyone needs all special features, extra buttons or complications. There are enough people who just want simplicity or just something for casual use. Furthermore no idea about the whole drama, but great video anyway Dustin!I love the style you have in your studio background.
It honestly happens a lot when cameras release but for some reason this one was just bigger in the UA-cam space lol. I appreciate you watching though! The studio is always a work in progress😂
As far as I can tell people saw the spec sheet of the S9, saw the price, and then saw a bunch of UA-camrs actually enjoying the camera in spite of the issues it has, and the pitchforks came out. Accusations started flying around comment sections all over UA-cam: shill! Sellout! Paid off! Trash camera, was the trip to Japan worth selling your soul? After that Gerald released his video ranting about the objectivity and transparency in gear reviews, and he specifically had issues with how Lumix (allegedly) handles negative feedback on their cameras. He got pretty heated in his video tbh lol. Final phase of this has been UA-camrs responding to the "backlash" of their supposedly biased reviews. Although I watched many of them and I felt like they were all fairly clear on the Japan trip as well as negatives of the camera.
@@jacobterrazas3147 i think the only issue here is Panasonic charging the S9 $1.5k for those specs. if they have priced it lower to around $1k then maybe both non-camera and camera peeps would jump on it.
lets not forget s9 is an interactable camera and that means if you as armature need auto focus you need to buy another lens and that doesn't look like an armature camera anymore! which armature videographer uses manual focus? and something else your comparison wasn't valid because s9 isn't a direct competitor for s5, you should have ask your wife witch one she choose between s9 and zve10 or other competitors in this class.
Great video Dustin, loved the part with your wife. I think a lot of people (at least from the comments I was getting) are upset that this isn’t a camera for them. There are, in fact, different markets for cameras other than pros!
ZV-E1 slaps the crap out of this camera in many ways, but it’s uglier than sin and that open gate is pretty sweet. LUMIX should have worked out the recording limits before launching this camera, but ultimately I’m glad cooler looking cameras are starting to exist on the market. I think someone like my little sister, who is a creator on TikTok with no camera experience or expertise will love this camera and it would be a big upgrade for her. So while this camera only makes me more likely (as a Sony shooter) to buy an S5IIX, it totally makes sense in the market and I’m glad to see it (those record limits in 2024 on a $1,500 body are goofy af though)
Dustin, regardless of the drama, I will continue to subscribe. I understand what Gerald was saying about marketing hype, but don’t hold that against the content creators.
“Brands don’t owe us anything” I’m not sure about that. Marketing before social media, was primarily brands paying agencies to create campaigns across print and tv with the paid celebrity endorsement when budgets allowed. Shift to current day, they now use UA-camrs/influencers to create their marketing campaigns and pay them nothing for their creativity and time. Sure, for a select few, they will cover hotel, airfare and food, some of which they get large scale corporate discounts for, but essentially a fraction of what they would have paid an agency in the past. The irony is that to earn a living, UA-camrs will then have to find a sponsor for that brand video to make a ROI. In essence, companies like Storyblocks, Squarespace, and Artlist are paying for Sony, Panasonic and Canons marketing campaigns. That is crazy to me. This whole drama is the unraveling of this relationship as the influencer based marketing program is flawed and unsustainable in the long term.
Everyone makes marketing campaigns and in this decade, influencers are part of it. Nevertheless, every single video on S9 clearly listed the cons and shortcomings of the camera. Everyone knows this camera will be available for $1200 on MPB by black Friday. It will be an excellent hit as an affordable compact camera that's
Thanks for the video, Dustin (and Mrs. Armstrong). I like Gerald Undone a lot. One thing that struck me about his video is that he seemed pretty upset that he is "disposable." Now, I don't think he ever considered himself a prima donna, but he seemed bothered by the fact that there are a lot of up-and-coming youtubers who might have the same code of ethics as him.
I like Gerald too. I'll be in an upcoming UA-cam video on his channel. But yeah it just felt like, to me at least he was implying that camera companies should send him cameras for review because that's his brand and what he does and has built a following. But to me, that's up to the company to decide regardless if you're unbiased or enjoy a product, which is why for me I would be making videos on LUMIX regardless if they stopped sending me stuff. If you want to review a camera or product and the company doesn't send it, then rent it yourself. I still do that and did that a lot in my past videos
Excellent commentary. I think you made a great point when you said that some people take it personally when a new camera comes out missing features they wanted. As a filmmaker of narrative content, I don't have an issue with the 10-15 minute recording limitations of the S9. Most of the shots I record are a 5-10 seconds long. Speaking of Lumix, I shot a feature film with the GH5. Not once did I use the headphone jack for recording audio. I used a Tascam field recorder and a film clapper to sync in post. Using the scratch audio from the camera and the audio recorded with the Tascam. So, when I saw people complain about the S9 not having a headphone jack, I thought, "So what". Anyway, I'm a fan of Lumix as well. I switched to Sony for autofocus a while ago. But, I've always wanted a reason to go back to Lumix because I think they make great cameras. And they always include shutter angle, unlike other brands. Since Lumix added PDAF to the S5ii/x, I've started looking at their cameras again. From what I've seen of the S9, I think I could probably shoot a feature film with it just as easily as I did with the GH5. If I can pick up an S9 or S5ii, I will be thrilled. Thanks again for your commentary. I'm glad I subscribed.
Appreciate you watching and subscribed! Yeah headphone jack doesn't bother me. I rarely monitor my audio unless it's extremely important and in that case I won't use the S9. I think you'll like my next video on the S9 if you're talking about the idea of shooting a feature of some kind with the S9. Hopefully released in the next 2 weeks.
The problem is that the reviews of the Lumix S9 in Japan are mostly equal. They schoot and film at the same Lokations. It was a good marketing for Panasonic and they generate more reach with the UA-camr wordwide. Camera reviews generate more clicks then other content thats the real life today.
First off, great video, well said. I appreciate you speaking your mind. Secondly, woah to the polarpro stuff. I have several helix items and am concerned to hear you had issues and look forward to your video on the subject before I further invest in their products.
I've gone back and forth on them. I thought I just had a dud 2-5 VND since that was the only one that did it. But I bought the mist filter and it locked on it just fine, but while I was on my trip stopped locking on it. Going to investigate how their customer service treats it and if they'll replace them and if those new ones will lock. We'll see how it goes
You never come across as a shill for lumix! You seem honestly excited about panasonic cameras but you always give us the cons as well, to decide for ourselves! You are amazing man! Your channel deserves more subs and views! ❤
@@DustinArmstrongPro it's very evident, should anyone say otherwise, ignore! If you are certain subject matter expert, and you look at related youtube content, you know how awfully wrong most videos are. Most professionals who are accomplished in their areas don't have the need to make UA-cam content, mostly because they don't need this side revenue and/or lack the skill required for making youtube content and those who do possess the skill aren't necessarily subject matter experts. The people who fall into this very small subset, who are subject matter experts and are also good at making youtube content, are the likes of Gerald. As much as I appreciate the sentiment from him, I hate this drama. We live in an imperfect world and it will never play part of any idealist sandbox. Never has, never will. I'm only worried all this doesn't backfire for Gerald! Now the real beneficiary of this drama is lumix, as they say there is no such thing as bad press!
I’m a Sony user for a many years. But I like a lot of things in LUMIX cameras. I like the overall quality of the Lumix camera bodies a lot. Also some features implemented better on Lumixes. And open gate… Why Sony didn’t open this gates for us… god… But I love my Sonys. A long time fan of A7S series. Love this cameras. And I have a collection of beautiful GMaster primes that I love. To be honest, I don’t think that there’s any reason to switch from one brand to another today. Companies constantly releasing new cameras that have some features better than others, and then others make it even better. Today Lumix gets better in autofocus, tomorrow Sony will open their gate :-)
@@DustinArmstrongPro man, it’s really interesting what you said about Helix filters. I planned to invest to this system because I like the idea of magnetic + lock. But now I’m not sure… I have to watch your review. I’m searching for the perfect filter system, and I can’t find. Screwing filters are annoying to operate with, magnetic easily fell off… After the cap fell off inside my backpack from expensive GM lens, and left the scratch on a lens, I’m a bit worried about all these caps. And I hoped that Helix is a perfect solution because of this lock mechanism. It looks like it’s not the solution :-(
I'm definitely weary to recommend the Helix. I've gone back and forth on them a lot, but they definitely do not stay locked on there. In this video I didn't even push the buttons to unlock it. It just spun off
@@DustinArmstrongPro oh god... i'm so tired to wait for a perfect system... I hoped that updated Helix Chroma will fix the color shift. But if there is a problem with the lock system, it ruins the whole idea for me. I have a Marumi Slim Movie Kit magnetic filters set. Nobody talks about this system, but it is perfect in terms of image quality, because it's not variable ND but it is a set of fixed NDs specially designed for video. It's a set of four magnetic filters. Filters with 1, 2, 3 and 4 stops. And if you need more stops you can combine like 4 stops + 3 = 7 stops. And the main thing is that it doesn't have any colour shift and any reduction of quality and sharpness, even when stacked! Because it's not like variable ND it doesn't have any problems like cross effect, color shift, sharpness loss, bokeh degradation etc. It's just reduce the light beautifully. But it has a really weak magnets that can fall off just because of some heavy camera shake. And it's not that convenient as variable in run and gun situations. It is magnetic, so it's pretty fast to operate, but not as fast as variable. But in a more calm situation, when the quality will be really important for me, i will choose this Marumi kit because of it's quality. Also i have a NiSi TrueColor, and i surprised how good the colors is. Not as good as with fixed Marumi kit, but much better than everything i tried in the past. But it screwing, which is annoying :-( My dream is the system, with locking like a Helix (but with proper locking), with quality of NiSi, and with additional option of set of fixed (non variable) NDs with 1,2,3,4 stops, and it will be my perfect system :-) And also the caps should look as good as Helix, and not as this cheap NiSi black plastick cap, which is pretty comfortable to be honest 🙂 PS. I'm sorry, it looks like filters is not the main theme of this video :-)
My S5IIX speaks for it's self. I would still buy it again today regardless of the drama. I will always follow Lumix to see what's next with or without UA-cam. The brand with the best IBIS and now AF plus a zillion other things I didn't know I needed, gives us black dials on my go to camera??? Why Lumix why?
Lol, I agree with you on that. I find the S5II so gorgeous the way it is. I wish they just kept that same design pattern on the X model. But that being said, the S5s are pretty though to beat when we factor the asked price and the level of quality and features you receive. It's my favourite system (I'm a Fuji owner as well).
People who will buy this camera will be volggers or who just want to be volggers. Also beginner's will easily spend 3k on a Sony camera because their fav UA-camr uses it or spend 2k on the S5iix as its the camera that is being talked about. The S9 is for those who want to be UA-camrs and nothing more
Very good that you give your honest opinion. However, I do not share your opinion on the subject of whether you should make it clear that you have received support in whatever monetary form. That you are biased in favor of Lumix does not change whether or not you should disclose payment. At best, you mention the bias in the video, that would show your honesty. I'm thinking of people who are just getting into the subject or young people who have no experience, where would they get the knowledge to assume that? That's why there are rules to help avoid misunderstandings. I hope you take this as productive feedback.
Every video where I've received a product or that's on loan I always mention my relationship (because that is the law). Then if I'm paid or money does exchange hands, that's when it's marked as a paid promotion on UA-cam. People in the comments get that confused when it comes to marking videos as paid on UA-cam.
So you suggest it's beginner camera? Based on the skit with your wife? Imagine she's your girlfriend you want to marry and you recommended her this camera ... 6 months later she asks you how to shoot photos with flash using her S9, because she wants to advance her photo game :D. S9 for the prices does not make sense in my country ($1900). This is camera that could be outgrown by someone within 6-12 months ... and then he/she have to spent another 2k USD to new camera. Not everyone lives in US where 2k is not much. Here were I live $1900 is more than median monthly wage.
I 100% agree with you, but that's also the problem is that even if I explain that to a beginner they may not care anyways and they have to learn if that's important to them for themselves. Even as someone who has more experience, I bought the S1H thinking the autofocus would still be just fine. It wasn't at all. But I ended up still keeping it and learning how to work around it by just using manual focus and honestly made me a better videographer in the long run. Who's to say someone who buys this camera doesn't have a similar experience?
I think what you said is like saying that young people who buy a two-seater convertible will be troubled in the future when they get married and have children because there are no rear seats. Instead of worrying about such distant things, let's enjoy the present. Peace~
@@jangolleh You might be right. Probably depends mostly on the budget. Going back to car example. When I was single I haven't bought sport car, because I was already dating my future wife and I knew some day we gonna have kids. So bought station wagon instead. 12 years later I'm still driving that car :D.
Agree on who Panasonic thinks the target audience is. Those that might be new to photography, don't care for too many buttons, complicated menus etc. Wants a lightweight camera. Basically a smartphone user looking for an upgrade. And let's be honest, it wants to ride the coattails of Fuji's success in appealing to fashion conscious buyers. But unlike that Fuji, I wouldn't even put this in the second body category for more experienced users. I don't think that's a bad aim. Basically Panasonic is bringing back the compact Lumix camera that smartphones killed off... Except for €1500 more than you ever paid for such a camera, without a lens. Except it really fails at this briefing. This expensive point and shoot should be an upgrade from the phone, not just in IQ but experience. Like the Fuji x100 and Ricoh GR it has no grip - but those cameras won't be mounted with camera dwarfing lenses. The claim of a super pocketable camera is marketing BA. The compact camera claim is a fallacy. Panasonic will offer a compact pancake like those two lenses, but it's only fixed at f8. The target user might not be a spec junky, but they are used to smartphones capable of background separation even if "faked". And low light pictures assisted by camera smarts. So is the lack of viewfinder and mechanical shutter such a big deal? For the target audience maybe not. But it's not a phone. Where's the step up in handling for all that money. It's still the same old disadvantage on a sunny day and jello effect. At the same time as focusing on screen use, it doesn't utilise it for controls like a smartphone user would be used to, rather than tiny controls. Control wheels are easy to use even for beginners but they are missing. But the Biggie is the LUTs. With Fuji it just works intuitively. No the film Sims aren't all based on film, but the connection is there. There are 20, it's simple, you can adjust them in camera and have your favourite 8 immediately available. The community to create them is organic. The LUTs is obviously a take on this, for the generation that might never have shot film. But the target user isn't going to know what a LUT is, won't be experienced in colour grading, won't know about layering effects. Won't shoot or care for RAW. It's way too complicated for this camera. There are going to be many ruined pictures by users that simply don't know better. The video limit... I think it could be an issue. This will sell to parents wanting to update their camera to record family moments and activities. Want to record a school play, tough. Music recital, tough, walk and talk blogging, nope. And that it's limited for overheating reasons rings alarm bells. Other compact bodies don't have this issue. So what should Panasonic have done? The target audience doesn't care about sensor sizes. Using a FD sensor is just bait for people that believe that's what they should get because that's what tech friends say that probably also don't need it. Using an APSC or M4/3 already allows more space for a viewfinder, helps with the overheating and therefore time limits, and would being the price down. It should also be a fixed lens camera, even a pancake-esque zoom. It can still have the looks and colours to appeal to the fashionistas. And a mechanical shutter to help reduce the number of pictures ruined by electronic shutter. As to the LUTs, Panasonic shouldn't just copy Fuji, and it's right to do its own thing. The full customisable menu should be for cameras upstream. For this market why not offer a store (or free) with LUTs created by the popular and hopefully mildly talented influencers and UA-camrs that the target audience might follow available to port to the camera. This allows for quality control, exclusivity, and even could broaden support for the camera and brand. Allow the user to tweak certain settings, maybe 2 or 3 slots where they can experiment, with the rest (not 39, way too many) for the curated ones. For more advanced users, Lumix should offer another LX. The camera many hoped from the start Panasonic would be releasing.
I think you're exactly wrong about your statement about Lumix not having an entry level camera. That being said, I don't really think that's the point of all the hate on the S9. It's people like you that Panasonic Lumix "paid" in a free trip and camera to go out a pitch this camera on their channel. I get that Lumix is late to the "influencer" game, but they nothing about marketing and it shows in the method they are using to sell this camera now. In summary, the S9 got a great list of features and did well on there competitive camera (though, the target competitive is all over the map - is it A7Cii, X100vi, ZV-E1, GRiii, etc). But, the marketing tactics is very suspect and lack creditability.
It's interesting, as I listened to your entire video, at the very end, I realize that what's happening to your camera space / UA-camr who reviews camera space, is a microcosm to what's happening everywhere in the world. A community dividing and eating one another. Taking for granted what they have, not accepting different opinions, and then destroying the whole thing. Pretty sad when you think about it. It's a camera, it ain't all that deep.
@@DustinArmstrongPro that’s the thing. In this UA-cam space, people are way more interested in the tech than they are about creating cool things. Does it really matter what camera you’re using? It’s kind of crazy when you think about it.
I think part of the problem is that Lumix doesn't release many cameras. Sony does so on a monthly or quarterly basis. My problems with the release were price and the lack of a real lens by Lumix. It was an oversight of monumental proportions. Even with all the negativity around the release, I think Lumix will sell a lot of them simply because it's a cool looking camera. They could have "sold" the time limitations better too.
The price I definitely agree is very close to the S5II and think it will do better when it's on sale. I wish they would have launched with the 18-40mm lens
Yes, since Lumix doesn't release cameras and tech regularly, people expect something big when there is an announcement around the corner. I am a Lumix S5IIX user. I expected some surprising announcements from Lumix in terms of new lenses (new 200-400mm perhaps), updated sensor or processor, or a new high resolution S5II. I may not immediately upgrade to the new camera but when I see the brand that I invested in keeps innovating, that gives me confidence that there is flexibility and options, when I am ready for an upgrade. If you take a look at their L mount roadmap, it has been pretty slow. It was just a dud announcement without anything substantial. I am not angry about S9. I am angry because Lumix doesn't show promises in terms of innovations. That makes me doubt my decision to buy an S5IIX. I for one like an ecosystem that provides flexibility and options. Whether or not I use all of their products is a secondary thing. I as a user shouldn't be forced to make compromises when I want to do something different from what I do today. Will wait and see.
Well, it is better IMHO to release less tech but focus on more and quality software and firmware updates regurarly ... If you check sony's attitude. With their new products every previous stuffs become "outdated" because you know they won't give you any updates maybe only bug fixes. If you are lucky. Basically this means they leave you with the feeling that you have "half done" product and you'll have to switch yearly or even sooner. This is not only a waste but also the exploitation of the customers, which is ugly. But hey, that's how market works, I know. And they can do that, until they have a fan base. All I am saying is, that less can be more especially in this regard.
@@broaf It depends. For me it's all about a well-rounded ecosystem - good cameras and lenses for all levels and purposes together with wide variety of accessories. That way, there is something for everyone. And there is flexibility for everyone. Just an opinion.
The only thing i don't agree and dislike is when content creators use words like "drama" or "contevarsy" i really didn't feel that gerald made any drama. And if some reviewers start doing negative whining videos about any camera that isn't perfect for them it really isn't very dramatic. You also agree with valid points that he made. So it feels like it's creating this "drama" by calling it that. Btw im also a lumix fan and use the s5 mk 2 for professional work :) i agree that this could be a great camera for a lot of people especially regular consumers. It the case of gerard video, it really wasn't about the camera itself.
No, but he did assume that people there would say nice things about it just because they were in Japan and it was implied that if we aren’t nice to the camera we wouldn’t be invited back. I’ve yet to meet anyone or see anyone’s video who was there who didn’t criticize what they didn’t like about the camera.
@@fatherofbirds i wouldn't say that he assumed that. He did say positive things about creators that were there, some of them he knows personally and that he believes they make an effort to be balanced. I think it was more general criticism about what naturally happens with this system of press release and also implied himself with the same outcome. But i think that saying that he assumed that is a bit strong. I don't think gerald thinks that everyone who went there will only say nice things about the camera and they didn't. But i do agree that it is implied that there is a limit to what and how you talk about a camera if you want to be invited back. But I really think he wanted to criticize lumix more that he did others creators.
Good video, and spot on. You content creators and reviewers are the layer between the viewer and the brands. But don't underestimate how much influence you all got, and that your opinions can hit camera manufacturers. The problem nowadays seems that every camera needs to be a big step up from the previous, even when it's a camera for different audience. We all created that (reviewers, and viewers). ''Because the camera doesn't fit my needs it's just a terrible camera, and the world will know it.'' Beside that, I guess and hope Lumix is a brand that can handle criticism, because without that there will be no grown :). I appreciate your enthusiasm about the Lumix brand, as much as I am a enthousiast about the brand. And I believe even as a enthousiast someone will give a fair opinion about a camera :). ps: can you please tell Lumix they need a fancier name for real time lut......, it sounds so... not fancy :P. Have good day:)
From my experience, I'm fairly certain LUMIX can handle criticism. Maybe some of the employees no, but guess we'll see. Haha I think it's patented so looks like it's here to stick🤷♂️
On another note, you think I need to sprint around somewhere to demonstrate the LUMIX S9 IBIS? 🤔
I want to see you do a run on safari while been chased by a cheetah. Jokes aside only factor is the price point.🤣🤣🤣🤣
I'm faster than a cheetah easy. I agree the price and not having at least 1080p with unlimited recording made me sad. But I hope it does well🤷
no, I think we all know that IBIS is excellent. But tests with the internal mic would be interesting. Also compared to a lavalier mic And visibility of the screen in bright sunlight for photography. With and without anti-glare protector.
Nah...we believe you bro, he he
Nice video my guy.
The segment with your wife helps this camera to make some amount of sense. I can understand that a traditional camera may feel too complicated and difficult to use for some people, and having a camera like this as a simple starting point into a system as they learn makes a lot of sense. That being said, when we examine this logic further it starts to fall apart:
1: The camera menus look like an exact replica of the S5 II, which even from an enthusiast perspective are overwhelming in the beginning just in terms of the sheer amount of features they have. Please let me know if this is inaccurate but from every demonstration I've seen they look exactly the same.
2: Many of the main compromises for this camera don't actually make it simpler to use.
- Removing a mechanical (or even EFC) shutter doesn't make the camera simpler. If anything, a mechanical shutter would make it simpler as users can stick the shutter into auto mode and then they won't have to worry about weird banding that shows up or turning on deflicker modes in the menu and the hassle that comes up with these :)
- Artificial recording time limits don't make a camera simple to use, they introduce a cumbersome hassle as new creators might have to throw away good takes they were in the middle of because the camera stops recording halfway through. Letting people record until the camera overheats is something consumers understand and would prefer. The original S5 also didn't have a fan and the body was about the same thickness but didn't have any major issues with overheating anyway, even without the 10 minute record limit.
- Removing a hot shoe doesn't make a camera simpler as consumers who don't want to use it will probably never take off the cover. It just means that this camera can't be used with additional accessories like the Lumix XLR adapter or other powered accessories (like flashes) if the user wants to grow into their equipment in the future.
3: The cost saving measures make the camera feel like a bad value.
- There is no way that removing an EVF, physical shutter mechanism, headphone port, hotshoe, most of the physical controls, all weather sealing, thermal control, dual card slots, full HDMI, and replacing build components with plastic would only save Lumix $300 vs the S5 II. You can argue that the S9 is built this way to save costs, but then it still doesn't feel like it warrants a $1500 price point. This camera feels like it was built in such a way to sustain a $999 price point and then they added another $500 on top of it either so they can slash the price later or keep margins artificially high in the off chance that it is a hit.
4: The pancake lens that comes with this is an absolute joke.
- A plastic manual lens with an f8 aperture that can't be adjusted with no lens cap or filter threads is the kind of thing some off brand Chinese manufacturer would make for $50, not a first party product.
- An f8 manual focus lens is not something that would make a new user happy who just spent $1500 on a dedicated camera that now takes worse quality images than their phone.
- There are no other lenses that are small enough to warrant a camera with no grip for L Mount. Even the X100 series and the ZVE1 have small grips.
Despite ALL of these issues I don't think this camera is uninteresting or that there isn't any hope for its success. I think the LUT features have potential, even if they are also too clunky to implement for new users and Lumix really missed the boat by not including many fun high quality ones in camera. I also genuinely think if this were priced at $1k It would make for a fun walk around daily carry camera, even without many of the features I would want. I am sure we will get there in the future, or close to it.
I think a bigger issue is that the Lumix S1 series is over 5 years old now and still have not had a replacement. The L Mount can't be sustained by only oddball cameras from Sigma/Blackmagic, $5k+ specialist Leica cameras, and entry level Lumix. We need a good mid range lineup to keep people interested and feel like they made a good decision. That isn't this camera's fault, it's an issue with Lumix. But it's still why a lot of people are mad. If this camera came out after an S2H and S2R, no one would be upset at all.
I never should have let you out of that room. And yes, that will definitely be in the final edit.
Great video! 👍
Lmao appreciate you watching and your video as well🤝
This is a really good honest video. Btw when I got the S5IIX your videos were the first I watched to maximise the settings.
Appreciate it🙏 I'm glad you found them helpful!
From the presentation of LUMIX I immediately understood what the target market for this product is. But watching the reviews I think the creators did not. The part with your wife clearly shows what should be talked about.
Still I think not having a matching lens - with autofocus - during launch is not clever.
Also I would have added a „green setting“ (auto everything) as we used to have on older DSLRs, just because it is aimed at beginner level users.
The LUT thing is killer! I hope this is what is picked up in the long term reviews. (And it would be great if we would get also more LUT slots on the S5 II, and all the improved LUT features)
Agree with this. I'm struggling to find a good f2.8 24 or 35mm pancake lens that has autofocus.
Maybe I need to do a follow up review and have my wife review it instead of me haha. I wish they would have launched with the 18-40mm lens. It'll have AF. Auto button that's more clear as well would be nice.
I found the same problem.
I saw no less then 10 people saying they were leaving Panasonic because of this release and that was before the drama, citing reasons like “they’ve lost their way”
Such a bizarre situation and I’m really glad you made this video man.
Very bizarre people are impatient, but I get it. I was impatient with the Sony A7SIII, bought a LUMIX and am honestly happier with it. So in a way it can be a good thing to try other systems to figure out what's really important to you in a camera
I rather them loosing their way a bit, them Panasonic axing the whole lumix division because of low sales. The S9 is a very smart move to get a bit of market share that helps develop the next flagship S camera
Think those who left Lumix only got onto Lumix as the S5ii/x was being talked lots. Being camera of the year. Those people are brand jumpers only buying a camera so they can do a YouTub video about it and get views. They want to make themselves a product so it's about how they feel not actually about the camera itself.
This is the conundrum for me with this camera. If it’s aimed for amateurs, will they ever need or appreciate the full frame, 6k open gate, real time luts, etc?
Why would an amateur want anything more than a smaller, lighter, cheaper, apsc camera with 4k? (Like a Ricoh gr, Fuji xe4, Sony 6700)
And if the goal is for them to grow to appreciate those aspects of the camera. Once they get to that point in their experience, then the lack of evf, the lack of hot shoe, no mechanical shutter, no headphone jack, the crappy 26mm f/8 lens, all start to matter.
Compromises aimed at amateurs, with benefits aimed at professionals.
So if the target demographic is amateurs, maybe don’t ask if the compromises are acceptable, ask if the benefits are necessary.
Because it’s cheaper for the to use the existing S5II sensor, then to develop a new “lower-spec” sensor for dumb-down camera. It’s actually amazing they didn’t cripple any of the capabilities of the S5II with “software”. The only limitations compared to the S5II are hardware related, the recording limits are because of overheating, and won’t be surprised if they extend those limits on the first firmware update, with more time of testing in their R&D and in the wild
@@9adriano21 it’s a D750/A7iii Sensor
@@9adriano21most of the problems with this camera can be traced back to the decision to go with a FF sensor, which is unnecessary for most people, let alone beginners. It's just marketing, but people are gullible and believe it's what makes a good photo, no skill required. Even a M4/3 sensor would have been good for the target market.
Smaller sensor=
- lower price
- less overheating, so longer or no recording limits
- space for a viewfinder within the lower price.
- space for a mechanical shutter
And the way the LUTs options have been implemented is just so over the top. Especially for a beginner, but also a more advanced user would spend less time fiddling round with apps and the camera wasting both batteries, and would just apply their own presents in their RAW editor of choice.
It's like the ZF all over again, a camera that doesn't know what it is or who it is for.
Panasonic made a really expensive advertisement for Fuji, basically.
@@brownbear100 the market wants full frame, going for a MFT camera right now would not gain any market share, mainly existing MFT enthusiasts would get it
If it’s aimed for amateurs, then why bother invited all those camera nerds/reviewers? Why didn't they invite some 'real' tiktokers/IG reels/YT vlogger?
What's the point of a reviewer if not to talk about all the specs, technicality, and all geeky stuffS?
This is not about the camera. This is about the marketing campaign.
so it's a camera specifically for your wife !! THATS AWESOME , she should get sponsored
They should have invited her to Japan
@@livestreamsuk6004 LOL
@@livestreamsuk6004 Would of been a bunch of people that only needed to film 10 minute videos
Someone who doesn't like complicated stuff would enjoy the open gate 6k.
It seems like it would make more sense for this camera to have been a micro 4/3 driving the cost down even lower for the "non professional". Why would someone making "non professional" work need a full frame sensor?
I was wanting the S9 or something like it for my wife. She only wants to take photos and make short videos of the kids. She likes the colors and simple design.
Yeah. That's what the camera is for. It's not a pro camera as such. Why so many people thinking it is has me wondering if some people just wanna dislike Lumix 😆
THIS. I haven't finished watching the video yet, but my biggest issue with the camera when it was first released was how receptive people who weren't in the camera space would be. So thank you for bringing your wife. Exactly the content/opinion I was looking for.
There's definitely an argument that there's a better camera out there for her as a beginner, but then I'd have buy lenses for that camera so it could end up costing more in the long run since I already have a bunch of l mount lenses. But even still it's just to get the point across that there's different markets out there
@@DustinArmstrongPro agree with your points. That was my point on Twiiter. Smartphones exist, for example. But I also don't think Lumix isn't smart enough to do market research.
Anyway, well said. Subbing to the channel now!
@@PostColorGear Appreciate you🙏
yeah look what was happended to Robin Wong. Camera manufactures definately need better marketing department or maybe they could make better strategy with GenAI 🤑
Thank you Dustin. Thank you for standing up at a time like this. Love following your work. Maybe you could come to Indonesia someday. Lots of great stuff to see and do here.
Appreciate you watching🙏 definitely would love to go to Indonesia one day!
As a fan of LUMIX objectively I have to say that a non-professional will buy sony zv-e10, because he doesn't need VLOG and other semi professional stuff at a fraction of the price of s9 with cheaper lenses.
The E10 has SLOG. That camera is also APS-C so what if a beginner wants to start on full frame?
Dustin you're a great and honest when presenting lumix, so far. Actually I tried lot to mimic what you are doing with Lumix. You're our lumix inspiration. Pls just avoid what other fan boys videos. We know those wont accept Lumix.😂
And I hope if I ever overhyped something or are dishonest, I'm called out for it. There's still space for more creators in the LUMIX space! Glad I can be an inspiration🙏
It is important to note, that when LUMIX talked to Gerald about not going to Japan, he asked them, if they could brief him on the camera, so he could “make his own assessment on it”.
They acquiesced this request, gave a product briefing to Gerald, and Gerald then agreed that this camera was not interesting to him.
They then later offered to send Gerald a camera for review, but Gerald declined this offer.
All of this, Gerald says himself at minute 33 in the video interview named “Lumix S9: The Odd State of Camera Reviews”, but he conveniently left out of his temper tantrum video.
Wasn’t that what he wanted? “Send me gear for reviews, but if I go on paid trips, it will only be for the plane ticket and hotel, because I ain’t gonna do any events”? Then what exactly is he mad at lumix for?
At the end of the day, drama feeds clicks and the UA-cam gods. So this might all work in his favor.
@@CountSwagulaI think he mad because the company pusses out not sending him S9 for knowing that he will trash the camera as it is. They even want to know before hand what is the title of the review before sending him one. That what he mad about the company mistreating him directly. And the other stuff he talked about. You should check out his video too. It’s quite fun when someone single handily make the big company looking like cons. 😂
Was it really a "temper tantrum video", or is that a tad dramatic?
@@sydneynoname413actually they DID offer to send him an S9 for review, but he declined.
You’re the man Dustin!
Can't wait for your S9 vs ZVE1 video....😂 I don't even know if you own it
@@DustinArmstrongPro haha nahh… they didn’t send me an S9 because they knew I’d rip into it. (Completely kidding)
That comparison would nauseate me anyways.
But seriously though, I love your candor and humility.
Great point. Good thing you did this. All the drama by other UA-camrs just because they think it needs to have more than 30 minutes of recording or the viewfinder. For the new UA-camrs I think this is great. I’m not a UA-camr and I don’t thinks I ever recorded more than 5 minutes. Great job.
Did you ask your wife how many $1500 cameras she has purchased? People who don't know about cameras don't really buy them, they buy smart phones. So that whole approach is kind of disingenuous. In today's economy people should only spend $1500 on a camera if they intend to learn how to use it and it's not great to learn on something with most features removed and regulated to menus they can't understand. They brought pros to the event so their audience are pros, not the wives and husbands of pros who don't shoot.
So the issue is the price? If the camera was, say $1199 would there still be an issue?
They’d buy a G7X Canon. $1500 for the camera and HOW MUCH for a lens!?
@@kingcutttt the issue was always price. Because all of its lacklustre features we’ve been told bad in the past but this time it’s good?
I had never bought a camera before I went out and dropped $800 on a rebel t3i kit ($1100 in today's money). That's what entry level is, the point at which someone decides to set some money aside to start the hobby.
@@karikaru exactly you bought a t3i, not a G9 or whatever under featured yet expensive camera they were also selling at the time. You bought the one with the buttons and headphone jack and features you can grow into. What made you do that vs getting a truly entry level camera with all those things removed? Canon was selling one at the time, why didn’t you buy that?
Dude honestly I don't even care about this whole topic, i just enjoy watching your videos anyways! You're cool and you'll be big ! Keep going !
Likely will be the last time I comment on anything. I've said what I said, I stand behind it, likely won't change. I just want to make videos for people like you that just enjoy the videos. Appreciate you🙏
Thanks for this video. Lumix needs some champions for their brand.
Hopefully their cameras keep making me excited😂
I own 20 different cameras bodies, from many different brands, LUMIX has sent me nothing, flown me nowhere, and I also like their cameras the most.
why do you need 20 different camera bodies, from many different brands, for?
@@v4l4r_m0rghul15 Testing and comparisons for lens reviews, but some I have just been too lazy to get around to selling.
@@v4l4r_m0rghul15 Lens testing mostly, but also too lazy to get around to selling the excess.
@@v4l4r_m0rghul15 2
@@v4l4r_m0rghul15 Many different companies send him cameras to review on his YT channel.
Awesome!!! Yes!
🙏
First I'm a limux lover, second I believe we make the brands. They literally didn't exist without the consumer. I like hype channels but we as the consumer need the fair and balanced channels first. That being said i do believe a company can put their ad dollars where it best suite them. They are in the business to make money. The problem i have after that is when it becomes a spin campaign to dupe the very customer that gives them the ability to exist. That's the American business model sell them junk and act like it's gold. I think the business should have the humble mentality over the consumer as they want to sell to us. They have the burden of delivering what the consumer wants, not the consumer having the burden of being a good purchaser of their products. The main wai we get around that is to have fair assessments of the product and go out from there.
I am a hobbyist who made the switch to LUMIX, and I couldn’t be happier. I now have a camera that checks all of the boxes for me. An S5II. I feel that LUMIX as a company, has the best ibis in the game, has an easier menu system, firmware updates that are often a surprise that make my camera even better, and weekly tutorials that show you how to use, and how to get the best results from your camera and why. Ohh, and best of all, I feel you get a great value! This is what makes me love LUMIX, and my camera so much. This is my opinion that I came to on my own. Will I buy another camera in the future? Most likely, and it will be a micro 4/3 for bird photography, and it will be a LUMIX. Also, if a company sends people on a free paid trip for them to use and promote their product, who cares. And if someone didn’t get an invite, I could also care less. They could also get a real job and maybe get invited to a company picnic. Enjoy what you have. Buy what works for you.
You get it✌️
Your wife's perspective was useful, however my guess is she doesnt need 6k opengate recording, or even 4k and most probably has no knowledge of LUT's, so she most likely wont drop 1.5k on a small hand held camera.
Which again makes me ask, who is going to buy the S9?
I cant see many uploaders dropping their phones to get a S9.
So sales me not be great for Panasonic.
Im a Lumix fan and own a FZ2000, a GH5, a S1 and a S5iix but i dont think Panasonic did themselves any favours with this camera.
I watched you S9 video and did not see any disclosure about your trip to Japan being paid by Panasonic. Unless I missed the disclosure, can you share why you don't believe you need to share that information with your viewers?
You sure you watched it? It's in there at 8:30 in to the video
@@DustinArmstrongPro Thanks, glad to hear it and I did miss it. From the FTC guidelines on disclosures: "Place it so it’s hard to miss. Disclosures are likely to be missed if they appear only on an ABOUT ME or profile page, at the end of posts or videos, or anywhere that requires a person to click MORE."
Great video and I like how open you are being about your views on cameras and YouTubing in general. I wish you all the best with your future content, you do a great job👍👍
Love that you brought out the wife, that speaks volumes of you as a person.
The Panasonic S9 is a nice camera and even though I only had it for a few days, I enjoyed it. You had a good idea with your wife. I did something similar with my cousin who is a minor estate agent. A lot of smaller business owners like him like the S9 and find the price tag okay because they already have a new iPhone that costs similar. But this one is just as small yet much more powerful and fun.
I honestly don’t get why there’s drama. Don’t like the camera, just get on with your life and watch something else. If you do, then cool! I like the camera, regardless of its limitations. Preordered it the day of release.
Honestly wild there’s so much drama around this. Good video man hope to meet you one day and have some fun shooting Lumix stuff 🎉
I'm with you. Don't like it, don't buy it. Don't like the content made about it, don't watch it.
If you're ever at NAB, you can find me sprinting everywhere trying to find cool gear
@DustinArmstrongPro If the content is false advertising, then telling people to not criticize a product, stop watching and move on is kinda irresponsible to say for you as an influencer. I'm not saying the content we saw was actually dishonest, but it is absolutely valid for people to care whether they're being manipulated by marketing practices or not. It's not the product that's being hated per se - it's how it's being promoted using the same channels as all the actually competitive gear targeted at geeks and professionals.
That's why I bought the Canon R8 - the perfect size/features for the person I gave it to, even though it made a couple of some compromises. Great content, your wife is awesome!
Maybe I'll have her review the S9 in the long run haha
@@DustinArmstrongPro That’s a great idea. From the perspective of a novice and in the context of her use case. Good luck man.
Great to bring on an example of the S9’s “target market”. I think that if Panasonic had left out the S9’s SD slot and included memory instead, more reviewers would have gotten it - the S9 is aimed at phone users, creating short videos and using their phone to edit and share and not a laptop or pc. It will be interested how many phone users are willing to add the complexity of an S9 to their workflow.
I have both the s5iix and the s9. S5iix for serious business. S9 is for fun. Same mind blowing image quality 👌
I think the hate towards the Lumix S9 is actually blowback from the Insta360 X4 debacle. For those unaware a bunch of influencers were caught up in a scandal where Insta360 asked them to not disclose they were sponsored. Many of the most popular “camera gear reviewers” had to go back and quickly add to videos that they were sponsored after releasing initial reviews without noting this critical fact. So now many “influencers” are trying to clear their names by attacking the Lumix S9. After all it’s easier and safer for their futures to go after Lumix rather than Sony, Canon or Nikon. This video points out clearly the target audience for this camera, folks looking to upgrade from their phone cameras, while the haters are attacking because it’s not “professional”. It’s low hanging fruit where they can say “See I’m really not just a shill making commercials for my own benefit, I’m an Honest Reviewer”. While not angering their benefactors
I agree with your missus, I have several cameras including film, but I like to shoot from the hip, and to coin a phrase, the best camera is the one you have with you. My next camera will be either S9 or Leica D-lux 8, I’m leaning more to the Leica.
Oddly enough Gerald’s vid on the s5 episode s why I own one and your channel is one of my faves because of shared passion for lumix. I understand Gerald’s point and I appreciate your perspective.
You make a compelling argument when comparing the S9 to the ZVE1. 👌🏽
This whole S9 situation has been crazy. Personally I can't see a market for this camera, at least here in Australia. While yes its quite cheap for a FF camera, it isn't cheap enough. Here in Australia you can currently get an A7Cii for pretty much the same price as the S9 or even get an S5ii for cheaper than the S9. With the lack of a metal construction, weather sealing, mechanical shutter, EVF, headphone jack and HOTSHOE(The worst admittance this camera has in my opinion) I can't see where the savings has gone as its still quite an expensive camera. When you have cameras like the A7Cii, ZVE1, older cameras or APSC/M43 cameras that offer more of those features for the same, close to the same or less I really can't see this camera being genuinely recommended to any market. Camera's cant be made to be solely focused on a singular use-case, as your wife says she doesn't have a use for many of the features, thats true. However, camera's are far too expensive to be as limited as the S9 is, it needs to justify itself as a tool thats greater than ones phone otherwise a general market won't purchase it, which is where the camera market is shrinking. That being said, the camera may very well sell well and a market may love it, and if it fills your needs and fits your budget thats great!
This all being said, the Lumix event did feel especially odd. When a company invites 10s of people, creators and filmmakers to an international conference you expect to see a camera or technology that is truely innovative, like the S5ii was. The S9 is not innovative, its a decent camera that fits a very specific market but its using a very old sensor, old internals packaged into a tiny body and as a result it has pretty huge limitations. When Lumix has a large community of videographers and photographers who love their equipment and have been patiently waiting for the past year to see the phase detect autofocus to make its way to more pro focused bodies such as the S1R or S1H, holding such a huge event that not only excludes them but also brings out a product thats almost an insult to those users and without comment on what Lumix's plan for their pro bodies are you're going to get quite a bad knee jerk reaction from those users. Had they talked about what their plans were, or announced this camera the way they really should have, just a simple internet based release the S9 would have been received much better but because Lumix made such a song and dance about this released they really put a spotlight on themselves releasing a mediocre camera. It wasn't a wise move by Lumix.
All cameras are not made only for pro-UA-camrs or Photo-video professionals. I like you bring someone who is neither of those 2 groups and is the perfect target for the S9.
I think the drama is part the 360 thing, the marketing and cynicism of the public to companies and the influence on content creators. I wonder if the 9s was under a 1k, came with a decent small profile lens, we would have as much drama. I hear "Not for you camera" The problem was sending "photography" UA-cam content creators to Japan that were not in the market for this type of camera.perhaps as a secondary or third camera ( if that makes sense? ) Panasonic should have let TikToker and short content creative types test the camera out. I think most people just want the LUTS app and if they installed in on their phone, they be happy.
There were people there too who weren't just "photography" UA-camrs. But it also goes back to I don't want to say I know what's best for a company. I don't work there I just like their cameras. So yes I agree maybe it made more sense for short form creators to go to Japan, but I also make short form content too and a professional can 100% find a use case for this camera. This would be a great mountable camera on suction cups or just on the go b roll camera🤷
My biggest thumbs up👍 You are absolutely right!!👍
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I have the S5II for work and will probably buy S9 for everyday carry after watch a lot of reviews.
It's probably the camera I'll use the most when I'm traveling or want something at a family event
As much as I like Gerald and his video, he is a very technical guy, so much so, that his gripes and criticism of products is sometimes outside reality. There is not a single perfect camera for everyone. Not everyone cares or needs every minuscule detail. I find his video a bit high horsey, but maybe that’s just me.
In the german community some people are envious and some seem to think that Lumix should have invited EVERY creator, which of course is absurd.
I am not a Lumix exclusive shooter, which wasn‘t and isn’t a problem.
Yep I'm the same way. I like to learn the quirks and nuances of cameras from Gerald, but I don't buy cameras based on that. I don't know LUMIX's strategy when it comes to these events and I'm not the one to decide 🤷
I have seen so many reviews of the S9 and so many different opinions. Honestly for how I use my cameras, this is a nice option for me. I find it a bit pricey for what it is, and I think that's partially because I already have tools at my disposal that I can get by with. Why would I spend that kind of money on something I don't necessarily need. I'm not in any rush to upgrade. My biggest hesitation is lenses. I'd like something compact like the one everyone has been showing but I'd like an adjustable aperture and auto focus for those quick shots that you may not have time to mess with the manual focus. Nothing against manual focus lenses, I own a few and like them but only for certain situations. I even use my auto focus lenses in manual for certain scenarios. My three big reasons for liking the camera though, compact size, good image quality and connectivity for quick editing and sharing.
Thanks for sharing your opinion on this topic. I've watched Gerald's video and thought it was well reasoned, I also thoroughly enjoyed C Mackey's videos on the S9 and the other takes I've watched. I've been considering going from my Iphone to first mirrorless camera and seriously considering the S9 as a great entry option that I can learn and grow into, experiment with different lenses and find out what I like.
For the Lumix S9 Mark II launch in 2025, only the wives and girlfriends of UA-cam camera reviewers will be invited to Japan. :D
I like how you are able to expand the discussion and include different perspectives. Most Lumix S9 critics only see this camera from a creator/professional photographer's point of view.
There are more potential point & shoot camera buyers than professional camera buyers. Guess who Panasonic are targeting?
I'm looking for the smallest and cheapest, best IBIS, full frame camera that has lenses cheaper than Nikon, Canon and Sony. I only see Lumix S9.
And your video gets a like from me.
Great video 👏 I own an FX3 and pre-ordered the LUMIX S9. It's a different tool for a different purpose. I'm excited about the new app, LUT button, hybrid zoom, 65:24 aspect ratio and its small size. The FX3 can handle filming without recording limits and anything else I throw at it, but it's impractical to carry everywhere. The S9 is for me to take with me when I don't want to bother with carrying a larger camera.
That's exactly what it is for me as well. S5IIX and S5II can get annoying to take on vacations and to family events
Excellent! Sell to the masses, not the few.
Now I want to make a video titled saying “I’m a Lumix Shiller😂”
Dude great transparent video! The S9 isn’t for everyone, and that’s okay! We need the new “beginners” to enter the Lumix ecosystem to start their path of cameras rather then trying to convince amateurs, semi pro and professionals to switch entire systems to Lumix.
It is a great camera for what it is, we (the creators) know this camera has limitations and you can just guy the S5ii if you want more complex advance features. The S9 might not be for you, but as fans of Lumix this is a great camera for the new person who doesn’t need a more confusing camera.
((Yes I would personally love this camera way more if the record limit was 29:59 and it costed $1299))🤷🏼♂️
Thanks man! Exactly. The price and record limit made me a little sad. But I hope it does well so more people use LUMIX
Well done Dustin, keeping your feet firmly on the ground. A good rationalisation of the issues. Unlike some who, if i’m honest, i’m a bit disappointed in on this platform regarding this matter. A lot of learning taking place and some seem to struggle with the concept of self reflection, doesn’t make them bad people of course, just means that they may need a little more time to adapt, we the viewers will still be here, subbing, liking, un-subbing, disliking, watching far too many hours of the tube and, well, just chilling whilst watching the tube for our own individual reasons, our viewing hours may just drift away from some and on to other channels for a while. But I can’t help thinking that now Lumix have adopted PDAF, and some no longer have that stick to hit Lumix with, there seems to be a need by some to create another narrative to hate on the Lumix brand with, they’re going after the ethics of the company in the hope of pulling the rug out from under the brand. For me these people are trying to make fools out of the very people whom, without, there would be no youtube, guess what, that’s the audience. Just be ethical, simple, or at least you’d think so right!!
I like your response Dustin 🙏✅ and appreciate your Lumix content🎬🎥 keep up your unique style 💪🏆
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Ive been looking for a camera as a gift for a beginner friend, mainly needs are a fun camera that shoot great jpegs, small size and good quality image mainly for travels. Now I am between S9 and a Fuji Xt50 (also haters dont like it), but I see them as a perfect fit for my friend. Agree, every product has its market and everyone has different necessities. I would have loved to see a small EVF on this one because I think it adds more fun to the process of taking photos, but it is what it is.
Thanks for your honesty. Owning your bias for a particular brand helps viewers judge your reviews better. What I don’t like are those creators who are showing aggressive contempt for their subscribers because they smell a rat in current camera marketing practices. Telling subscribers that they can just fuck right off or threatening to ban them if they don’t shut up is a death wish and they deserve to lose subscribers. A year from now no one will care all that much about the S9 but we will care about the credibility of camera reviewers.
BTW the camera your wife needs is an iPhone. 😉
It is so odd to me that there seems to be active brand assassination targeted towards Lumix products, it's baffling
It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds
Negative publicity is also a publicity, I hope this makes a positive impact for Panasonic.
Nah look at the amount of views its been getting out on different videos it seems to look strong, i only needed some more digging into its compromises before I opened up to it. Its only now I learned that the pancake is included with the preorder.
Definitely looks like a paid bashing campaign led by chief paid Sony troll Gerald Undone. Even Craig at Canon Rumours got tired of him but nobody listened to him at that time because people don't like Craig or whatever. I'm totally done with Gerald Undone and all the brand bashers hating on the S9.
Ironically the brand that gives customers the most for the money
Going to watch the rest of the video but man your wife's review is honestly a mic drop. Perfectly encapsulates what Hugh Brownstone said, yeah there's all kinds of things that don't make sense to "pros" but we don't have access to Panasonic's market metrics and data. I'll be honest and say I'm not entirely sure Panasonic is going to capture the market they are going after, but they must have some numbers or metrics somewhere that says they have a chance given the specs and price point of the camera.
Edit: Appreciate the transparency Justin, I'm not entirely sure where everyone got the idea that UA-camrs are "sainted objective Journalists". I watched another video where someone felt deceived by reviews they had seen because certain features didn't match their experience, and if that is truly the case that does suck, but I realized a long time ago UA-camrs don't and can't replicate MY use case for a camera or setup. And my experience may never match theirs, they have totally different needs from me, and as such I realize I won't really know what a piece of gear can do for me unless I try it and get it into my workflow. Reviews are good for general info, impressions, and honestly just fun. It's fun watching a content creator you follow enjoy using a new piece of gear. Been following you for a while because you were one of the only channels producing Lumix content, enjoy watching what you produce 👊
Exactly. We like to think we know, but ultimately the brand probably knows what's best. As soon as I saw the camera at the event, I said in my head "my wife's going to love this one"
Gotta agree, love how he brought in an opinion from someone who isn't in the camera world niche.
Would love to see more pancake/small lenses for the l mount.
Samyang 24mm and 35mm will be coming soon
nO oNe ShOuLd BuY tHiS cAmErA
Thank you for being a normal humble human being brother
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Lmaooooooo I appreciate you man. Keep making dope videos 👊
Beautifully demonstrated the point. We spec nerds are just jealous because we now know what we want is a S9X not the S9! And they looked after normal people ahead of the camera nerds. 😢
I agree with everything Gerald said in his video
this would pair amazingly with the sigma 28-70, and some of the other tiny lenses they've made.
3:08 the second question should be if she doesn’t have a professional husband, and she doesn’t care about all these features, will she actually buy and appreciate it?
It’s so true that this market doesn’t exist yet, it’s a question whether this market will ever exist. It’s like trying to replace your phone, which has replaced so many cameras in the first place. I don’t know if it’s ironic or counterintuitive.
4:54 and your wife probably also doesn’t care about open gate, 6k or the awesome features this camera brings on the table. And she’s probably never gonna get the ZVE1 neither if you’re not the husband. So I really don’t know who this camera is targeting.
It’s like I can totally appreciate the features of this camera which I don’t care about, so I’m never gonna buy it. That’s the problem.
Totally agreed. I never shoot video more than 5 minutes. I am not a Pro and I don't care. Most of the time my cell phone can do most of that.
Long wind here. One point you made in the video, and I think it's the biggest point Gerald made, is about who the company does and does not invite to these events. As of the moment, Panasonic has a tiny market share compared to the likes of Canon, Sony, and Nikon despite making some of the absolute best cameras money can buy. And it baffles me as to the idea that they would want to exclude potential skeptics from their event so it's basically an echo chamber of "shills" for their new product. I bought into the brand back in 2014 when the LX100 was released. And it is hands down my favorite camera of all time and to this day is obscure and overshadowed by the likes of the X100 and Leica Q. It had little to no hype or marketing campaign. It was just that damn good. I was using an X100 then and was so sold on the LX100, I switched. If I were in the marketing team that puts together these events, I would ensure that there were many potential converts at the event despite the chance they would have a negative view on the product. That is a display of confidence in their product that they will not only reach a new audience (which is a huge gamble since they're mostly phone users) but convert users from other brands while listening to constructive criticism and feedback. And I do think they missed the mark with this particular camera. They are never going to convert the X100 or Leica Q crowd, because this camera isn't like them at all except for it's size.
Then let's say it was never meant to compete with those cameras. I think many people, myself included, were expecting a full frame LX100 that would compete with the Leica Q or basically (like the D Lux line) be essentially the same camera with a Lumix badge at half the price. Why the expectation? Precedent. Only the Leica Q occupies a full frame fixed lens in that space and needs a true competitor. A full frame LX100 has been asked for by many ever since Panasonic went consumer full frame. Why should people's expectations be criticized when it is Lumix that has set the bar for them with very high quality cameras? Uncharacteristic of a high end brand. The lack of features is simply something I don't expect from Lumix and therefore it isn't for me. I'm just going to get the S5II for those extra features. With the S9 I've heard a whole lot of "Well maybe it just wasn't made for you". So be it, but to that I ask: Who is it made for? The types they are apparently aiming for use their phones to create content and do not buy new cameras. Instead they're frugal and buy thrifted Y2K cameras. I hope it can hit the mark with casuals or as most have stated: content creators. But honestly, with that recording limit, I just can't see who it's for and as a genuine Lumix fan it's hard to spin it. The saving grace could be the LUT feature which in my mind is a game changer and has killed film simulations for good. I hope it's a feature that will be in every Lumix camera moving forward.
End of the day, they might not owe us anything, but we don't owe them anything either. If this is indeed a miss for them, I really hope that Panasonic listens to feedback because in this industry that is shrinking year over year, these companies can't afford many failures, and I for one will not buy or promote a camera simply to keep a brand in business.
I think Panasonic has the right to invite whoever they see fit for their event, just like any person would have the right to invite whoever they want to their wedding. Some people get mad when they’re not invited to a wedding they expected to be invited to, and I think that’s all that has happened here.
I love Gerald’s style of reviews, but let’s be real… It’s pretty apparent in his video that he’s a little salty for not being invited to this event, and the past couple of lumix events.
While I believe that HE THINKS he’s solving a problem here, the problem never existed.
It’s simple marketing. Lumix invited creators that are a better fit for this camera. Nothing wrong with that. Let them have good marketing behind their products so that they can sell more cameras, and in turn make more cameras. It’s completely ethical, and it’s how a lot of big companies (inside and outside of camera products) market their products.
I have not felt misled one bit in any of the creator videos I’ve watched. Some creators highlighted positives more that others and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
The overarching problem is these camera review channels just aren’t supported by UA-cam as it was in the past. Whether it’s UA-cam, or maybe the viewers are oversaturated with this content, whatever it is, it’s pretty obvious that it’s a bit more slim pickens than it used to be.
Love Gerald’s stuff, but why is he only critical of this situation now? He absolutely reaped the benefits of this system in the past.. in fact I just saw a video of him at NAB. Just a bit hypocritical of him… maybe just be comfortable with passing the torch, and getting it back every once in a while
It is refreshing when you clearly state you are a fan. I like to get both the perspective of people that try to be neutral and examine every aspect of every camera and also the perspective of the true fan that just finds one brand fun.
Personally I get all giddy out of joy when I run after my crazy little 3 year old with a S5II in my hands and get super smooth footage thanks to the ibis. That kind of "fun factor" is beyond pure specs and it is the kind of thing that makes me into a fan of Panasonic. Your running around on NAB gives the same sense of joy. Who cares about specs then?
If Panasonic got bött hurt over subtle criticism or word selection from Gerald perhaps that is an example of culture clash rather than sleazy marketing tactics. Sad either way because his review of the S5II was one of the reasons I bought it.
I've followed this conversation on a few channels. I strongly believe we are all part of a community here.
The viewers, the content creators and the brands (manufacturers)
We live in a time of instant news. Sharing information with a tap of a finger.
Gone are the days of looking through a monthly magazine for product releases and reviews.
( my days 😂)
Now social media is our space for information. " You the creators "
I seen the S9 launch videos. Everyone gave their pros and cons, with the short time they had with the product " camera "
We are all here because we love creating and sharing images.
That's our community space.
Information and brand competition gives us choices.
Gerald started a conversation, I think to keep us grounded and give it a little extra thought before pressing the share bottom.
Thanks for keeping it cool.
In the end we all benefit by sharing our thoughts and information.
Looking forward to more thoughts and reviews.
I'm excited to see what Lumix has coming and All other "Brands" as well.
We are all part of the same community.
Cheers!
Well said! Big fan, love your work. Inspirational
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Dustin, great points made by you and Gerald Undone on this subject. I enjoy watching all of you creators discuss these Lumix products (I learn a lot more in a quick way) One thing that I notice is a lot of talk about the video aspect of cameras. As a Photographer, I always want to know if the camera takes a quality photo when I use it with whatever lens I choose. Sometimes the photo part (which is the primary use if a camera) is lost in the shuffle of the video specs. I am a Canon shooter too, but I also love my Lumix S1. Side by side they have their differences, but they work well for what I shoot (Concerts and Promo). I was going to get the S5IIX, but my Lumix DC S1 (which I bought when it was released) works so well, that I am getting another one used or not because of the overall quality. Anyway, thanks for doing this presentation. Looking forward to more from you in the future. Peace. ✌
I love Lumix cameras; I think they make the best bang for buck cameras on the market (except maybe for the S9) and I still use my G85 and love my new S5II but the S9 is an oddity.
I think we all agree that this camera isn’t for everyone… but is it for anyone?? I'm not trying to be super critical, but I still don’t know who it’s actually for.
OK... be honest, your wife might ‘prefer’ the S9 over the other cameras IF she had to choose between that or an S5II(X) (not that anyone is forced to make that choice) BUT would she actually buy one or would she just use her phone? I get it, she doesn’t need the features of an S5II or X but then she also doesn’t need most of the features of the S9.
In my opinion most people who aren’t ‘into cameras’ like your wife who don’t need an EVF or a Hotshoe also don’t need real time Luts, they don’t need open gate 6k (or any 6k or probably even 4k) even for 10 minutes or whatever the time is, or vector scopes or shutter angle etc (or would even know what any of these functions are or how to use them) or even the ‘full frame look’.
Let’s be honest, most people who aren’t into cameras just use their phone to shoot photos or videos because they're all so darn good now and that’s what killed the point and shoot market.
Ultimately though I think the biggest issue for the S9 in finding a market is the price.
In Australia the S9 is around $3k with a lens (or about $2.5k body only), for that price a 'point and shooter' could buy the latest iPhone outright (iPhone 15 Pro Max is $2,199 AUS), take great photos and videos and have all the other apps and functions that they might actually use on a smartphone over anything the S9 offers as listed above.
To be fair, I give points to Lumix for trying something different, but I think they swung and missed with this one. Pros won’t buy it. If I was looking at buying a B or C cam I'd just pick up another S5II which is only around AUS $2,600 with a kit lens, and I dare say 95% of the old amateur point and shoot market will stick use their phones. They might have tried 'stepping up their game' at around $800 - $1000 odd AUS but not for $3k. Times are tough at least down under…
I could be wrong, and time will tell, but I do think this camera is going to struggle to find a market. Too pricey for the amateur and too limiting (especially for the price) for the semi to pro user even though the size might work better for some shooting scenarios...
Yeah S9 is the first camera from LUMIX I'm like that is really close to the S5II.
I mean she does use her phone, but ever since she's been around me watching me use my cameras, she's always had an interest in using them. But it's fair that she'd probably consider another one if it was her first given the price (and I mention that too, but just wanted to illustrate a point when it comes to comparing to LUMIX)
Guess time will tell how well the camera sells.
@@DustinArmstrongPro Thanks for the reply.
I think the real issue with the S9 is that this is a full frame camera in a point and shoot body. This impacts the price; it limits functionality and it's also counterproductive to the ergonomics given most L mount lenses will be massive and unbalanced on this body.
I think Emily from Micro Four Nerds hit the nail on the head when she said she would rather have seen Lumix release something like this in M43 (well APSC would be nice, but Lumix don't play in that sandbox).
It would totally make sense to release a M43 version with the G9II sensor. The price should be a lot more palatable, there should be less restrictions on record times and the lenses would fit much better ergonomically.
If they could sell the M43 version for around the AUS $1500-1800 mark (or even less without a lens) I could see myself buying one as a C cam on a small gimbal like a Crane M3S (as I have done with my G85). I could also see enthusiasts being more tempted to up their game at that price.
As it stands now though I'd be more likely to buy something like an A6700 APS-C camera over the S9 (and I'm generally not a fan of Sony cameras) as I can get one with a 16-50MM & 55-210MM for around AUS $2,380 which is much better suited for that kind of purpose. It has no limits on recording (except maybe 4k 120) although overheating can obviously be a factor, a mechanical shutter a hot shoe and it has an EVF albeit a crappy one or so I've heard. If you already have Sony glass you can get the body only for about AUS $1800 and from the reviews, I've seen it's much better value for beginners and pros than the S9. Just my opinion.
Hopefully Lumix will release a M43 version (although they can't call it a G9) and if they do it might be something I'd look at getting.
Well said, as much i love lumix too this one i really can't find a way to defend them...they really confused themselves, its true about target audience, but they really need 6k open gate? Answer is No
Personally i don't mind to not have mechanical shutter or hot-shoe but it would be atleast fair just to put atleast 4k 30 with no limits and call it day also target audience will be pleased
But not with bait of coming interesting specs with huge unnecessarily limits, i know they done research and so forth but with this level of era and technology we have they deserve better.
No idea what the whole drama is about as I only saw a part of the video from Gerald undone and this video. Only thing I remember from there was something about how reviewers only get shown the positive stuff about the cameras and have to make a video + test the cam itself in a very short timeline.
About your video, I do agree with you saying there is always a market for a camera. Not everyone needs all special features, extra buttons or complications. There are enough people who just want simplicity or just something for casual use. Furthermore no idea about the whole drama, but great video anyway Dustin!I love the style you have in your studio background.
It honestly happens a lot when cameras release but for some reason this one was just bigger in the UA-cam space lol. I appreciate you watching though! The studio is always a work in progress😂
As far as I can tell people saw the spec sheet of the S9, saw the price, and then saw a bunch of UA-camrs actually enjoying the camera in spite of the issues it has, and the pitchforks came out. Accusations started flying around comment sections all over UA-cam: shill! Sellout! Paid off! Trash camera, was the trip to Japan worth selling your soul?
After that Gerald released his video ranting about the objectivity and transparency in gear reviews, and he specifically had issues with how Lumix (allegedly) handles negative feedback on their cameras. He got pretty heated in his video tbh lol. Final phase of this has been UA-camrs responding to the "backlash" of their supposedly biased reviews. Although I watched many of them and I felt like they were all fairly clear on the Japan trip as well as negatives of the camera.
@@jacobterrazas3147 i think the only issue here is Panasonic charging the S9 $1.5k for those specs. if they have priced it lower to around $1k then maybe both non-camera and camera peeps would jump on it.
lets not forget s9 is an interactable camera and that means if you as armature need auto focus you need to buy another lens and that doesn't look like an armature camera anymore! which armature videographer uses manual focus? and something else your comparison wasn't valid because s9 isn't a direct competitor for s5, you should have ask your wife witch one she choose between s9 and zve10 or other competitors in this class.
Great video Dustin, loved the part with your wife. I think a lot of people (at least from the comments I was getting) are upset that this isn’t a camera for them. There are, in fact, different markets for cameras other than pros!
Exactly. The pros are definitely the loudest that's for sure. Always a pleasure having you in my comments🙏🙏🙏
ZV-E1 slaps the crap out of this camera in many ways, but it’s uglier than sin and that open gate is pretty sweet.
LUMIX should have worked out the recording limits before launching this camera, but ultimately I’m glad cooler looking cameras are starting to exist on the market. I think someone like my little sister, who is a creator on TikTok with no camera experience or expertise will love this camera and it would be a big upgrade for her.
So while this camera only makes me more likely (as a Sony shooter) to buy an S5IIX, it totally makes sense in the market and I’m glad to see it (those record limits in 2024 on a $1,500 body are goofy af though)
I'm glad someone gets it. The comparison video between the ZVE1 and this camera📈
Dustin, regardless of the drama, I will continue to subscribe. I understand what Gerald was saying about marketing hype, but don’t hold that against the content creators.
They should have sent the wives of reviewers then. Not the professional reviewers. What where they thinking?
Maybe next time I'll bring her just in case and film her to make the review
“Brands don’t owe us anything”
I’m not sure about that. Marketing before social media, was primarily brands paying agencies to create campaigns across print and tv with the paid celebrity endorsement when budgets allowed. Shift to current day, they now use UA-camrs/influencers to create their marketing campaigns and pay them nothing for their creativity and time. Sure, for a select few, they will cover hotel, airfare and food, some of which they get large scale corporate discounts for, but essentially a fraction of what they would have paid an agency in the past.
The irony is that to earn a living, UA-camrs will then have to find a sponsor for that brand video to make a ROI. In essence, companies like Storyblocks, Squarespace, and Artlist are paying for Sony, Panasonic and Canons marketing campaigns. That is crazy to me. This whole drama is the unraveling of this relationship as the influencer based marketing program is flawed and unsustainable in the long term.
Everyone makes marketing campaigns and in this decade, influencers are part of it. Nevertheless, every single video on S9 clearly listed the cons and shortcomings of the camera. Everyone knows this camera will be available for $1200 on MPB by black Friday. It will be an excellent hit as an affordable compact camera that's
Thanks for the video, Dustin (and Mrs. Armstrong). I like Gerald Undone a lot. One thing that struck me about his video is that he seemed pretty upset that he is "disposable." Now, I don't think he ever considered himself a prima donna, but he seemed bothered by the fact that there are a lot of up-and-coming youtubers who might have the same code of ethics as him.
I like Gerald too. I'll be in an upcoming UA-cam video on his channel. But yeah it just felt like, to me at least he was implying that camera companies should send him cameras for review because that's his brand and what he does and has built a following. But to me, that's up to the company to decide regardless if you're unbiased or enjoy a product, which is why for me I would be making videos on LUMIX regardless if they stopped sending me stuff. If you want to review a camera or product and the company doesn't send it, then rent it yourself. I still do that and did that a lot in my past videos
Great perspective!
Genius! He he...Even as a S5IIX owner, I can see this S9 as B cam...
Great for suction cup work and b roll🤷
Excellent commentary. I think you made a great point when you said that some people take it personally when a new camera comes out missing features they wanted. As a filmmaker of narrative content, I don't have an issue with the 10-15 minute recording limitations of the S9. Most of the shots I record are a 5-10 seconds long. Speaking of Lumix, I shot a feature film with the GH5. Not once did I use the headphone jack for recording audio. I used a Tascam field recorder and a film clapper to sync in post. Using the scratch audio from the camera and the audio recorded with the Tascam. So, when I saw people complain about the S9 not having a headphone jack, I thought, "So what".
Anyway, I'm a fan of Lumix as well. I switched to Sony for autofocus a while ago. But, I've always wanted a reason to go back to Lumix because I think they make great cameras. And they always include shutter angle, unlike other brands. Since Lumix added PDAF to the S5ii/x, I've started looking at their cameras again. From what I've seen of the S9, I think I could probably shoot a feature film with it just as easily as I did with the GH5. If I can pick up an S9 or S5ii, I will be thrilled.
Thanks again for your commentary. I'm glad I subscribed.
Appreciate you watching and subscribed! Yeah headphone jack doesn't bother me. I rarely monitor my audio unless it's extremely important and in that case I won't use the S9.
I think you'll like my next video on the S9 if you're talking about the idea of shooting a feature of some kind with the S9. Hopefully released in the next 2 weeks.
@@DustinArmstrongPro Excellent. Thank you.
The problem is that the reviews of the Lumix S9 in Japan are mostly equal. They schoot and film at the same Lokations. It was a good marketing for Panasonic and they generate more reach with the UA-camr wordwide. Camera reviews generate more clicks then other content thats the real life today.
Thank you for this video.
First off, great video, well said. I appreciate you speaking your mind. Secondly, woah to the polarpro stuff. I have several helix items and am concerned to hear you had issues and look forward to your video on the subject before I further invest in their products.
I've gone back and forth on them. I thought I just had a dud 2-5 VND since that was the only one that did it. But I bought the mist filter and it locked on it just fine, but while I was on my trip stopped locking on it. Going to investigate how their customer service treats it and if they'll replace them and if those new ones will lock. We'll see how it goes
@@DustinArmstrongPro looking forward to it man!
You never come across as a shill for lumix! You seem honestly excited about panasonic cameras but you always give us the cons as well, to decide for ourselves! You are amazing man! Your channel deserves more subs and views! ❤
Glad it comes across that I am because I really am! Very excited to see what LUMIX has cooking next👀
@@DustinArmstrongPro it's very evident, should anyone say otherwise, ignore! If you are certain subject matter expert, and you look at related youtube content, you know how awfully wrong most videos are. Most professionals who are accomplished in their areas don't have the need to make UA-cam content, mostly because they don't need this side revenue and/or lack the skill required for making youtube content and those who do possess the skill aren't necessarily subject matter experts. The people who fall into this very small subset, who are subject matter experts and are also good at making youtube content, are the likes of Gerald. As much as I appreciate the sentiment from him, I hate this drama. We live in an imperfect world and it will never play part of any idealist sandbox. Never has, never will. I'm only worried all this doesn't backfire for Gerald! Now the real beneficiary of this drama is lumix, as they say there is no such thing as bad press!
I’m a Sony user for a many years. But I like a lot of things in LUMIX cameras. I like the overall quality of the Lumix camera bodies a lot. Also some features implemented better on Lumixes. And open gate… Why Sony didn’t open this gates for us… god…
But I love my Sonys. A long time fan of A7S series. Love this cameras.
And I have a collection of beautiful GMaster primes that I love.
To be honest, I don’t think that there’s any reason to switch from one brand to another today. Companies constantly releasing new cameras that have some features better than others, and then others make it even better. Today Lumix gets better in autofocus, tomorrow Sony will open their gate :-)
This is a great way to put it. All cameras are great these days to be totally honest.
@@DustinArmstrongPro man, it’s really interesting what you said about Helix filters. I planned to invest to this system because I like the idea of magnetic + lock. But now I’m not sure… I have to watch your review.
I’m searching for the perfect filter system, and I can’t find. Screwing filters are annoying to operate with, magnetic easily fell off… After the cap fell off inside my backpack from expensive GM lens, and left the scratch on a lens, I’m a bit worried about all these caps. And I hoped that Helix is a perfect solution because of this lock mechanism. It looks like it’s not the solution :-(
I'm definitely weary to recommend the Helix. I've gone back and forth on them a lot, but they definitely do not stay locked on there. In this video I didn't even push the buttons to unlock it. It just spun off
@@DustinArmstrongPro oh god... i'm so tired to wait for a perfect system...
I hoped that updated Helix Chroma will fix the color shift. But if there is a problem with the lock system, it ruins the whole idea for me.
I have a Marumi Slim Movie Kit magnetic filters set. Nobody talks about this system, but it is perfect in terms of image quality, because it's not variable ND but it is a set of fixed NDs specially designed for video. It's a set of four magnetic filters. Filters with 1, 2, 3 and 4 stops. And if you need more stops you can combine like 4 stops + 3 = 7 stops.
And the main thing is that it doesn't have any colour shift and any reduction of quality and sharpness, even when stacked!
Because it's not like variable ND it doesn't have any problems like cross effect, color shift, sharpness loss, bokeh degradation etc. It's just reduce the light beautifully.
But it has a really weak magnets that can fall off just because of some heavy camera shake. And it's not that convenient as variable in run and gun situations. It is magnetic, so it's pretty fast to operate, but not as fast as variable.
But in a more calm situation, when the quality will be really important for me, i will choose this Marumi kit because of it's quality.
Also i have a NiSi TrueColor, and i surprised how good the colors is. Not as good as with fixed Marumi kit, but much better than everything i tried in the past. But it screwing, which is annoying :-(
My dream is the system, with locking like a Helix (but with proper locking), with quality of NiSi, and with additional option of set of fixed (non variable) NDs with 1,2,3,4 stops, and it will be my perfect system :-) And also the caps should look as good as Helix, and not as this cheap NiSi black plastick cap, which is pretty comfortable to be honest 🙂
PS. I'm sorry, it looks like filters is not the main theme of this video :-)
My S5IIX speaks for it's self. I would still buy it again today regardless of the drama. I will always follow Lumix to see what's next with or without UA-cam. The brand with the best IBIS and now AF plus a zillion other things I didn't know I needed, gives us black dials on my go to camera??? Why Lumix why?
I still follow most camera releases. I'm always curious what other brands are cooking up
Lol, I agree with you on that. I find the S5II so gorgeous the way it is. I wish they just kept that same design pattern on the X model.
But that being said, the S5s are pretty though to beat when we factor the asked price and the level of quality and features you receive. It's my favourite system (I'm a Fuji owner as well).
Never leaving Panasonic.
LOL, the demonstration is stupide. Beginner don't speed 1700euros on camera... end of story.
Depends how deep their pockets are
@@DustinArmstrongPro true, but X100VI is better choose in many way. And a few of "reviewers" had make de comparaison...
@@andrilopin1056 I've never used it so unfortunately can't compare
People who will buy this camera will be volggers or who just want to be volggers. Also beginner's will easily spend 3k on a Sony camera because their fav UA-camr uses it or spend 2k on the S5iix as its the camera that is being talked about. The S9 is for those who want to be UA-camrs and nothing more
Very good that you give your honest opinion. However, I do not share your opinion on the subject of whether you should make it clear that you have received support in whatever monetary form. That you are biased in favor of Lumix does not change whether or not you should disclose payment. At best, you mention the bias in the video, that would show your honesty. I'm thinking of people who are just getting into the subject or young people who have no experience, where would they get the knowledge to assume that? That's why there are rules to help avoid misunderstandings. I hope you take this as productive feedback.
Every video where I've received a product or that's on loan I always mention my relationship (because that is the law). Then if I'm paid or money does exchange hands, that's when it's marked as a paid promotion on UA-cam. People in the comments get that confused when it comes to marking videos as paid on UA-cam.
So you suggest it's beginner camera? Based on the skit with your wife?
Imagine she's your girlfriend you want to marry and you recommended her this camera ... 6 months later she asks you how to shoot photos with flash using her S9, because she wants to advance her photo game :D.
S9 for the prices does not make sense in my country ($1900). This is camera that could be outgrown by someone within 6-12 months ... and then he/she have to spent another 2k USD to new camera. Not everyone lives in US where 2k is not much. Here were I live $1900 is more than median monthly wage.
I 100% agree with you, but that's also the problem is that even if I explain that to a beginner they may not care anyways and they have to learn if that's important to them for themselves. Even as someone who has more experience, I bought the S1H thinking the autofocus would still be just fine. It wasn't at all. But I ended up still keeping it and learning how to work around it by just using manual focus and honestly made me a better videographer in the long run. Who's to say someone who buys this camera doesn't have a similar experience?
I think what you said is like saying that young people who buy a two-seater convertible will be troubled in the future when they get married and have children because there are no rear seats. Instead of worrying about such distant things, let's enjoy the present. Peace~
@@jangolleh You might be right. Probably depends mostly on the budget.
Going back to car example. When I was single I haven't bought sport car, because I was already dating my future wife and I knew some day we gonna have kids. So bought station wagon instead. 12 years later I'm still driving that car :D.
@@jangolleh And also regarding two seater, looks like S9 two seater has only 3 wheels :D.
Agree on who Panasonic thinks the target audience is. Those that might be new to photography, don't care for too many buttons, complicated menus etc. Wants a lightweight camera. Basically a smartphone user looking for an upgrade. And let's be honest, it wants to ride the coattails of Fuji's success in appealing to fashion conscious buyers. But unlike that Fuji, I wouldn't even put this in the second body category for more experienced users. I don't think that's a bad aim.
Basically Panasonic is bringing back the compact Lumix camera that smartphones killed off... Except for €1500 more than you ever paid for such a camera, without a lens.
Except it really fails at this briefing. This expensive point and shoot should be an upgrade from the phone, not just in IQ but experience. Like the Fuji x100 and Ricoh GR it has no grip - but those cameras won't be mounted with camera dwarfing lenses. The claim of a super pocketable camera is marketing BA. The compact camera claim is a fallacy. Panasonic will offer a compact pancake like those two lenses, but it's only fixed at f8. The target user might not be a spec junky, but they are used to smartphones capable of background separation even if "faked". And low light pictures assisted by camera smarts.
So is the lack of viewfinder and mechanical shutter such a big deal? For the target audience maybe not. But it's not a phone. Where's the step up in handling for all that money. It's still the same old disadvantage on a sunny day and jello effect.
At the same time as focusing on screen use, it doesn't utilise it for controls like a smartphone user would be used to, rather than tiny controls. Control wheels are easy to use even for beginners but they are missing.
But the Biggie is the LUTs. With Fuji it just works intuitively. No the film Sims aren't all based on film, but the connection is there. There are 20, it's simple, you can adjust them in camera and have your favourite 8 immediately available. The community to create them is organic. The LUTs is obviously a take on this, for the generation that might never have shot film. But the target user isn't going to know what a LUT is, won't be experienced in colour grading, won't know about layering effects. Won't shoot or care for RAW. It's way too complicated for this camera. There are going to be many ruined pictures by users that simply don't know better.
The video limit... I think it could be an issue. This will sell to parents wanting to update their camera to record family moments and activities. Want to record a school play, tough. Music recital, tough, walk and talk blogging, nope. And that it's limited for overheating reasons rings alarm bells. Other compact bodies don't have this issue.
So what should Panasonic have done?
The target audience doesn't care about sensor sizes. Using a FD sensor is just bait for people that believe that's what they should get because that's what tech friends say that probably also don't need it. Using an APSC or M4/3 already allows more space for a viewfinder, helps with the overheating and therefore time limits, and would being the price down.
It should also be a fixed lens camera, even a pancake-esque zoom. It can still have the looks and colours to appeal to the fashionistas. And a mechanical shutter to help reduce the number of pictures ruined by electronic shutter.
As to the LUTs, Panasonic shouldn't just copy Fuji, and it's right to do its own thing. The full customisable menu should be for cameras upstream. For this market why not offer a store (or free) with LUTs created by the popular and hopefully mildly talented influencers and UA-camrs that the target audience might follow available to port to the camera. This allows for quality control, exclusivity, and even could broaden support for the camera and brand. Allow the user to tweak certain settings, maybe 2 or 3 slots where they can experiment, with the rest (not 39, way too many) for the curated ones.
For more advanced users, Lumix should offer another LX. The camera many hoped from the start Panasonic would be releasing.
I think you're exactly wrong about your statement about Lumix not having an entry level camera. That being said, I don't really think that's the point of all the hate on the S9. It's people like you that Panasonic Lumix "paid" in a free trip and camera to go out a pitch this camera on their channel. I get that Lumix is late to the "influencer" game, but they nothing about marketing and it shows in the method they are using to sell this camera now. In summary, the S9 got a great list of features and did well on there competitive camera (though, the target competitive is all over the map - is it A7Cii, X100vi, ZV-E1, GRiii, etc). But, the marketing tactics is very suspect and lack creditability.
It's interesting, as I listened to your entire video, at the very end, I realize that what's happening to your camera space / UA-camr who reviews camera space, is a microcosm to what's happening everywhere in the world. A community dividing and eating one another. Taking for granted what they have, not accepting different opinions, and then destroying the whole thing. Pretty sad when you think about it. It's a camera, it ain't all that deep.
Yep exactly. I just wanna make cool things regardless of the camera or gear I use
@@DustinArmstrongPro that’s the thing. In this UA-cam space, people are way more interested in the tech than they are about creating cool things. Does it really matter what camera you’re using? It’s kind of crazy when you think about it.
Well said my dude! Good to hear from Panny Boi on the matter
Now I'm the LUMIX shiller I guess
@@DustinArmstrongPro meh I was told my channel should be Anson & Sigma once… it happens when you are passionate for a system hahaha
I'll be honest you've kind of made me want a sigma FP 😂
@@DustinArmstrongPro lol YES! My goal of global conversion grows more every day
I think part of the problem is that Lumix doesn't release many cameras. Sony does so on a monthly or quarterly basis. My problems with the release were price and the lack of a real lens by Lumix. It was an oversight of monumental proportions. Even with all the negativity around the release, I think Lumix will sell a lot of them simply because it's a cool looking camera. They could have "sold" the time limitations better too.
The price I definitely agree is very close to the S5II and think it will do better when it's on sale. I wish they would have launched with the 18-40mm lens
Yes, since Lumix doesn't release cameras and tech regularly, people expect something big when there is an announcement around the corner. I am a Lumix S5IIX user. I expected some surprising announcements from Lumix in terms of new lenses (new 200-400mm perhaps), updated sensor or processor, or a new high resolution S5II. I may not immediately upgrade to the new camera but when I see the brand that I invested in keeps innovating, that gives me confidence that there is flexibility and options, when I am ready for an upgrade. If you take a look at their L mount roadmap, it has been pretty slow. It was just a dud announcement without anything substantial. I am not angry about S9. I am angry because Lumix doesn't show promises in terms of innovations. That makes me doubt my decision to buy an S5IIX. I for one like an ecosystem that provides flexibility and options. Whether or not I use all of their products is a secondary thing. I as a user shouldn't be forced to make compromises when I want to do something different from what I do today. Will wait and see.
Well, it is better IMHO to release less tech but focus on more and quality software and firmware updates regurarly ... If you check sony's attitude. With their new products every previous stuffs become "outdated" because you know they won't give you any updates maybe only bug fixes. If you are lucky. Basically this means they leave you with the feeling that you have "half done" product and you'll have to switch yearly or even sooner. This is not only a waste but also the exploitation of the customers, which is ugly. But hey, that's how market works, I know. And they can do that, until they have a fan base. All I am saying is, that less can be more especially in this regard.
@@broaf It depends. For me it's all about a well-rounded ecosystem - good cameras and lenses for all levels and purposes together with wide variety of accessories. That way, there is something for everyone. And there is flexibility for everyone. Just an opinion.
Nice video Dustin! I don't understand the hate
Thank you Dustin.♪Good video, and spot on.
The only thing i don't agree and dislike is when content creators use words like "drama" or "contevarsy" i really didn't feel that gerald made any drama. And if some reviewers start doing negative whining videos about any camera that isn't perfect for them it really isn't very dramatic. You also agree with valid points that he made. So it feels like it's creating this "drama" by calling it that. Btw im also a lumix fan and use the s5 mk 2 for professional work :) i agree that this could be a great camera for a lot of people especially regular consumers. It the case of gerard video, it really wasn't about the camera itself.
No, but he did assume that people there would say nice things about it just because they were in Japan and it was implied that if we aren’t nice to the camera we wouldn’t be invited back.
I’ve yet to meet anyone or see anyone’s video who was there who didn’t criticize what they didn’t like about the camera.
@@fatherofbirds i wouldn't say that he assumed that. He did say positive things about creators that were there, some of them he knows personally and that he believes they make an effort to be balanced. I think it was more general criticism about what naturally happens with this system of press release and also implied himself with the same outcome. But i think that saying that he assumed that is a bit strong. I don't think gerald thinks that everyone who went there will only say nice things about the camera and they didn't. But i do agree that it is implied that there is a limit to what and how you talk about a camera if you want to be invited back. But I really think he wanted to criticize lumix more that he did others creators.
Gerald was just doing a drama ! Just because lumix didn’t invited him…. It’s not about honesty
Good video, and spot on. You content creators and reviewers are the layer between the viewer and the brands. But don't underestimate how much influence you all got, and that your opinions can hit camera manufacturers. The problem nowadays seems that every camera needs to be a big step up from the previous, even when it's a camera for different audience. We all created that (reviewers, and viewers). ''Because the camera doesn't fit my needs it's just a terrible camera, and the world will know it.'' Beside that, I guess and hope Lumix is a brand that can handle criticism, because without that there will be no grown :). I appreciate your enthusiasm about the Lumix brand, as much as I am a enthousiast about the brand. And I believe even as a enthousiast someone will give a fair opinion about a camera :). ps: can you please tell Lumix they need a fancier name for real time lut......, it sounds so... not fancy :P. Have good day:)
From my experience, I'm fairly certain LUMIX can handle criticism. Maybe some of the employees no, but guess we'll see. Haha I think it's patented so looks like it's here to stick🤷♂️
#lumixgang📸🔥🎬
Couldn't live without a view finder outside in the bright sun.