More problems with the Triumph Tiger 90
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- The Triumph Tiger 90 is still causing problems!
After restoring the bike, rebuilding the engine and gearbox, there seems to be some kind of electrical problem that we just can't cure!
We have rebuilt the motorbike in the workshop, transforming it from a complete project found in a barn to the bike you see today! It's been a lot of work, but this little problem is stopping me from being able to ride it!
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www.dominicchinea.com
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Ranalah Ltd's Instagram: / ranalahltd
Get the legend that is Mr Alan Millyard to do a collaboration with you, he'll have it running perfect 👌
Would be great to see you both working together on an episode.
And get Dom to help restore his lawn mower in return !
Perfectly.
Sorry!
Exactly what came to my mind. Alan and Dom together - just perfect.
@@ThePigletpilot we'll be well pleased!
Not bad on the editing job! I'm very impressed! How about next time, I do the welding?
and WendyCam to film it?
I think I’ll stick to the welding, this editing thing is difficult
Let Dan weld doesn't have to be anything important
Had a Boyer did the same thing,replaced the box,all good-good luck
saw a light near the plugs when you got it running at 10:24 near the Rocker covers, either it's a short or your running a spark test light; just thought you should be informed! keep up the good work Dom
YES I had all that happen to me as well and when you said Boyer Branson I knew what it was. I own and run 1972 T120R OIF 650cc Bonnieville. It's the Branson ign module. your workshop is out in Kent somewhere, so is Boyer Branson. He is near Leeds castle just off the M20 . Take the module to him and get it tested. I bought a new one and all my issues just disappeared like a fart in the wind. Brit bike electrics are sometimes hit and miss. The company latin motto for LUCAS ELECTRICS translates to THE PRINCE OF DARKNESS. Trust me, I learned the hard way or convert the whole system to run off a 2MC capasitor....
Definitely the ignition. At 10:57 you can see it isn’t sparking (on the spark plug) and when it does and starts you can see it missing sparks then stop completely before dying. I’d be swapping the module/sensor out. Best of luck!
We've been away on a Scotland adventure with little wifi so we've got behind with our fave YT people! Catching up now!
We've had the good fortune to meet Camera Dan and he's a legend. However, good job Dom!
I'm impressed by the footage from the glasses. A lot better than I was expecting.
I’m not. Really.
Yes, enjoyed the feeling you were riding. Picture not too bad.
My thoughts on the video from the glasses as well. Much better than expected.
Allan Millyard is your man, legend in the world of motorbikes
The alternator doesn't produce a nice steady voltage, instead, it produces pulses of power going alternately (hence the name) backwards and forwards. If the peak of a pulse is nowhere near the point where the c/b points open, the spark will be weak or non existent. Unfortunately there were two types of ignition circuit used on Triumphs, (1)- Conventional (like a car), which needs a battery, or, (2)- energy transfer, (like a magneto), which basically shorts an output straight to ground, building up current, which then goes to the coil when the points open.
We had a similar problem back in my motocross days, with a 475 BSA. I converted it to the same system as my '67 Bonneville at the time by using a capacitor instead of a battery, and using a zener diode, which clips the voltage at 12v (with a heatsink - all standard Lucas items). This worked fine on both the Bonnie and the BSA. The alternator needs to be connected for full output (both leads with the same BACKGROUND colour joined together, and the remaining wire on its own going to the a.c.( ~ ) terminals of the rectifier). Oh, and the bulbs will need to be 12v.
If the bike is already a 12v system, all you may need is the capacitor and its mounting spring (to guard against that Triumph twin speciality, vibration!).
Paul henshaw has been working on a 350 triumph albeit in a royal Enfield frame , runs perfectly but has energy transfer ignition ..
@@Rugbyman269I was also going to suggest looking in on Paul Henshaw’s YT channel. He’s a man who knows his onions (and Triumphs, and BSAs, and REs). I think he prefers a normal points and 12V battery system, though. Les
yup, apart from the "original " insulation, breaking down and wires hardening with age the design worked ( well) .. I never had any issues My Enfield has a battery in it now ,,but I often forget to turn the ignition off... But points and a few kicks ... However I still have the Lucas Rm 14 stator in it sooooo a tickle charge when get home helps
I’m an ex-triumph twin owner albeit from a long time ago - the T90 seems to be running like a bag of nails. With those relatively open pipes on the bike, you’ve probably got very little back pressure which will have an impact on carb settings needed.
Well done on the editing. It's no small feat to learn a new skill in something you're unfamiliar with in a short length of time.
Thanks for that!
Dom! You are truly a maker!
“Probably won’t have nice music running through it”
*music immediately starts 🤣👍😎
At the time I filmed it, I didn’t know if I’d be able to do the music!
Great job mate. Hope you get the bike sorted!
Hi Dom, Love the bike! Say hello to your brother Dan, used to work with him at P&S Automation😊 All the best T2
Chip and Dale squeaky voice at 14:00 was hilarious 🤣
Nice to see Dan A man on a mission to restore life back into the Triumph. Thanks Dom don't get too stressed enjoy the little amount of sunshine you get in the UK. Cheers
Loving the speeded up parts. Like two minions working on a bike! Banana! Papaya! And googles too! I think actually prefer your directing editing. Great stuff thank you
The T,shirt Brother Dan is wearing was the competition winning design by my brother for that year's London to Brighton Mini Rally .
That must have been a nice surprise to see! :)
You did well with the editing, Camera Dan should be worried!
I love those pipes, they look awesome.
He’ll certainly need some heat shield over them to stop him burning his legs
At 10:59 you can actually SEE the spark. That's not right!
I suspect that's a plug light they're using in the diagnosis.
I think thats just an indicator plug between the lead and sparkplug, so that you know it's sparking.
I think that`s because they have a spark checker insert in the HT lead.
That's because Dom is using one of those neon spark indicator devices between the HT lead and the spark plug. You're seeing the neon flashing!
Not too familiar with cycles electrical systems.
But I know older GM vehicles & air-cooled VW ignition coils get hot - they collapse.
When cooled off - they start & run fine.
Replace coil or ignition setup.
Which I'm sure several have already told you.
I just saw the video from nine days ago the bike is finished.
Nice video -
Excellent work !!!
Dom, two words to fix the triumph. Electrix world.
Hi Dom, I run a Daytona 500 with boyer ignition and the way yours misfires seems very similar to how they behave when the battery is low. As I understand it they need a stable 12v which a battery in circuit provides. Someone else mentioned that Boyer sell a power box that will allow them to run without a battery. My experience of the boyer system is that it is reliable and the bike starts easily. A battery or power box is the way to go!
for someone who has never done the editing, you've done a stellar job. and don't make such a huge deal out of the video quality. it is your content that matters, and the way you present it. and as for the bike, I'm not an expert on engines, but my bet would be on a faulty ignition coil / system. keep up the amazing content. but we will survive if you have to skip a week or 2. so don't worry about us
Great job at editing Dom 👏
If the electronic ignition is going to be replaced, I've used a Wassell EI on two of my bikes (BSA A65 and starfire) and have been impressed. Should work on yours. If yours is wasted spark ignition you can also go to a new single dual output coil as well.
You did a fine job editing the video! Nice to see brother Dan who didn't want to be seen in the videos a while back. He's going to be a star! Maybe give Allen Millyard a buzz for some advice or get him on your video! He'll sort out the problem!
It’s probably because Dan has realised he will have to be in them… lol he just don’t like being on camera all the time lol
Plus one for a collaboration with Allen Millyard. Couldn't find anyone better to work on a bike and you'll learn lots from a master. Might even get a cupcake from Tracy.
Love the glasses too! They give you a 'mystery man' look!
If the TV guys see him wearing them they'll have him lined up to host University Challenge or Mastermind before Christmas arrives🤣🤣
Hi Dom. If you hadn't mentioned the editing no-one would have noticed. The x ray specs gave a good image but always seemed to be a bit low when sat on the bike. I don't know when they could be used as it's natural to bob your head around. Good luck with fixing the bike, I cannot offer anything re that.
Thanks for the feedback
Hi Dom, I had an issue with the ignition coil ground (earth) that caused issues similar to the problem you're experiencing. The connection to ground was ok until engine vibration caused it to fail. Sometimes the coil is grounded by a little metal tab which can crack. The break is very difficult to see and doesn't open until it's affected by engine vibration. Good luck with your trouble shooting. It's frustrating but you'll get it eventually
I've done quite a few of these now and I have the following comments:
- when running the Boyer electronic ignintion without a battery you need a Powerbox that fits this application
- you need to ditch the zenor diode and original rectifier and use a modern regulator/rectificer (Rex speedshop has them)
- use a good quality 2,5mm2 wire as "earth" for all the earth connections. I never use the actual frame as earth but a wire instead - all to the same mouniting point on the bike some where
- buy two new 6V ignition coils for the Boyer setup
Dominic I have run a Boyer unit on my Commando for 40 odd years, I would be happy to look at it for you, All the best John
Nice work Dom, good job with the editing job.
Just a thought. Coils work fine until hot, inner windings separate from expansion. Coils stop working until cool down. New coil time.
@@robertberry4109 - I agree to this. Happens on many of my vespa restorations, coil looks OK but are shot inside.
@@robertberry4109 - Dominic has commented in the thread: coils are new…
I had a similar problem on a Yamaha, replaced the ignition trigger and it was fine, obviously a different bike and possibly different system but something to think about, another option would be to get your brother to take it to the Repair Shop 😂
Nice looking little Trumpy!
Boyer ignitions like a full 12vs, so try without the bulbs. Also Boyer supply a power box for battery less systems, to supply 12v. Cheapest and easiest way is to fit a battery.
Modern AGM batteries are really nice. Also why fit a Dell orto? Burlen sell the exact Amal carb you need 👍
Loved the video , despite the problem not resolved. My 67 Triumph fortunately has electronic ignition retro fitted.
It is a British motor cycle - it is operating in "as new" fashion.
The new ones run better but my brother worked in a Triumph dealer and considered buying a modern Triumph .
He said he could not get past the engine sounding like a can of nuts and and bolts threatening to explode at any minute and decided to continue buying Japanese.
A triumph Tiger like this one was his first bike. He brought it home , it sat in the garage unable to run for two years , then he sold it.
He was a mechanic.
How does that help this situation?
20 odd years ago i had a problem with a 500 Daytona i as rebuilding , i suspected it was the Boyer unit. As i live in Kent they asked me to bring it in to them , they did a full test on the unit and it was fine. They where extremely helpful and saved me a lot of time as i knew i had to look else ware for the fault.
Great job 👍 Well done 👍 Editing. Nothing wrong with it at all. Those glasses 🕶️ do suit you. Have a good week.
Rich/Lean mixture just think of the taper on the needle,so if you lift the needle up i.e moving the needle clip down allows more fule in to the engine and reverse to make the mixture lean.
Your problem sounds just like an issue I had with a VW with breakerless ignition. Everything was fine and then no spark. It was frustrating since I would have the car towed to the dealer (it would only cut out after hours) and they would start it up and drive it in to the shop in the morning. It finally traced to the Hall effect sensor. Once the was replaced, it has worked fine ever since.
Love the video, great job editing. I too had similar random cut outs on a bike. Turned out to be a cracked battery post whilst the other was a coil shorting across the cap to ground. I only found the problem when checking for something else at dusk and low ambient light allowed me to spot the arcing. As someone else suggested I would love to see you and Allen Millyard on a collaboration. Maybe get him involved with your aero engine build. After all he has an aero engine bike.
I love being ameliorated. Thanks for making this effort, Dom, and nice to see Dan, too. I hope the Triumph Troublesome gets well soon. Oh, and the specs will have their place in benchtop close-ups I reckon.
Hi Dom & Dan, Doing a great job 😊, sounds like a break down of a component, when it gets hot , or the insolation on a cable , All the best Brian 😃👍
Dom, Cutting out when hot is a sign of the coil breaking down
Good work on the editing Dom, another skill to add to your impressive list! Another vote for getting in touch with Allen Millyard and doing a collab on getting the bike up and running. Would be awesome seeing you two working together on this.
I think you need to discuss with Boyer to help with the ignition.
Also have you checked that it is running on both cylinders, it sounds more like a single, also check the obvious such as valve clearances to be sure all the valves shut as they need to, so often it’s something simple.
Thanks for sticking with the schedule Dom, and top job on the edit. Liked the meta glasses footage on close ups, but wider/movement shots less so. Keep up the great work.
19:50 I have a Boyer Bransden on my Norton, and I designed and built my own power unit to replace the naff zener diode. Everything was fine, but one day when out on a run the bike started misfiring, then died, just like this. I eventually pinned down the problem to my charging unit having failed, and the battery voltage had reduced below the level at which the BB worked properly. The battery volatge might be OK on a static test, but what is required is a test at the BB input as faulty wires might be the problem.
I am currently redesigning my regulator electronics, but with a view to extending it to use the alternator as a BLDC starter motor, probably with modern (rare earth ?) magnets in the rotor. My 70+ body on a 60ish year old bike needs such assistance.
good video ..i be interrested in looking into those shades with cam....ty for sharing
As someone who makes videos for a living you did a great job on your first edit. WAY better than a lot of the stuff you see on UA-cam, so feel good you succeeded at that challenge.
I appreciate that!
Have you ever considered giving Allen Millyard a call, Dom? It would be great to see a collab! Also, the editing was perfect!
Alan Millyard is a genius with bikes yes it would be good to see a collab.
Great job editing AND music. Winner!!
Wow, they were CLEVER glasses. 🎉
I had a problem on my Makita lawn mower where it started fine, ran for a few minutes then stumbled, cut out and wouldn't restart for about ten minutes. I stripped out the carb, checked the fuel supply and spark and couldn't find anything. I finally traced the fault to a duff spark plug. The spark plug was a new plug but non-branded. NGK replacement plug worked fine.
Well... that was a bit of a workout at the start, our Dom! Video editing skills on point can definitely be added to the CV also very appropriately found musical accompaniments. 🤪Camera Dan, safe to say your job is safe with our Dom when you're off holibobbin'! Our Dom's obviously learned from one of the best. Lovely to see you and your bro Dan working together again, our Dom. You two will find the culprit and get it fixed am sure of it while we still have good weather! Who knows... maybe Planet Earth might gift us an indian summer?! 😊Have a great week and can't wait to see next week's video. x
Cracking video and cracking bike. If it makes you feel better my KTM 990 decided that it didn't recognise the key anymore and immobilised itself.......In France!. Four weeks later and it's still over there. You'll get there with the Triumph.
Dom, the editing was spot on, it as the camera work that let you down this week :)
Crikey Dom, loose the adjustable spanner!
I would watch a scratchy black and white video, as the content is the most important part, but you did a good job of getting content out
I was very impressed with your editing and you figured out how to add music, good job.
I like the view from your fancy glasses, but it might be a little much while riding, a lot of fast head movements, in order to see where your going obviously, could make some feel sick. Thanks for another great day in the life. You always inspire me to go try and restore or fix or creat something. Thanks!
Channeling the spirit of Buddy Holly in those glasses.
Hi Dom. Hubby suggests that if you have a condenser in the ignition system, check it out or change it.
It’s got an electronic ignition!
My only experience of Boyer Branson was buying a KH250 that already had it fitted, it would run rough and misfire once it had warmed up. I took the Boyer Branson off and fitted the standard point and it ran great.
Hi great video - suggestion re the BB ignition. If the 12 volt supply has an intermittent break in supply, like a bad connection or a an ignition switch which isn't great, the trigger will cease and will not be present until the supply is switched off and turned back on again. Not sure why it is but that is what happens, have had it a few bikes, including my T100 Tiger, Check all cable runs, especially the 12 volt cable to the BB box and the leads down to the trigger. Good luck - cheers Elliot
How very inconsiderate of Camera-Dan to have a holiday when you want your video edited; You've done a very good job of it Dom. The new POV shots are pretty good, ideal for short detailed bits.
Love the video, we are all learning all the time. Can you completely bypass the existing wiring and make up a temporary ignition line? Then you can eliminate the wiring from your investigation. I suspect it’s a faulty new unit. Stick with completely original if you can. I’ve learned that’s best and more fun. 😊
Like the extra life-like addition with the glasses , just trying to catch up with the ranala project
I see you are using a Boyer power box. They have capacitors inside to store a small amount of power and rely on the running engine to recharge them at the same time as the power is being used. It looks like the problem is that you aren’t getting enough power to the power box at low revs to keep a steady 12V supply to the Boyer. They stop working when the voltage gets down to about 10V and below 12V the ignition timing can be erratic. This will also explain the difficult starting and poor running at slow engine speed. Drop me a line if you want to discuss the problem. Cheers Keith
Well done on the editing!
Thank you!
Ah, the venerable Lucas electrics! My '68 Trophy used to blow all the light bulbs [at night] if you slightly over-revved it.
Apart from that; loved that machine!
Coud be the ignition coil or the cable from the coil to the sparks. Had a similair problem with my Suzuki GT185. New coils solved the problem. IN AN OTHER CASE IS WAS LIKE THAT. In my car a marten bited in the cables to the sparks, so that sometimes one zylinder was not working properly. You couldnt see the bite traces, but changing to new cables helped. With greetings from germany!❤😊
My 1956 BSA C12 would run without a battery using old fashioned points and coil. The alternator output was converted to 6v DC by a germanium rectifier.
Bloody hell Dom all that build up to editing and expecting something hideous. Then you knocked it out of the park within 2 minutes 🎉 bravo
Great video and edit Dom, give the Millyard a call, would love seeing you two together 👍
Your front brake lever down at the wheel is going past 90° which suggests that the linings are worn and it will be less efficient.
Great editing Dom l thought . Thought you did a marvelous job 👍. And the camera glasses were a lot better than l thought they would be . Shame the old bike is playing up for you Dom . Hope you sort it out soon .
Just a thought, I seem to remember that as the Boyer system fires both cylinders simultaneously, the advice at the time was to use (2) 6v coils on a 12v system. Not sure exactly what you have purchased but could be something to look at.
That’s all correct, I have 2 6v coils
Hi Dom & Dan. Nice work o the recording considering you have this as your first try very good.
Easy answer to the problem & gain use take it to a repair shop no pun intended. OR WINTER WILL BE HERE.
You are using a Boyer Power Box I see. That replaces the battery. Being analytical I would try:
1. New spark plugs. If no better then:
2. Double, triple and quadruple check all ignition connections. I have had this sort of thing before on old bikes where it starts fine then dies as a connection gets jiggled about.
If no better then:
3. Strap a fully charged little 12v battery to the bike temporarily. Run 12v from battery to the coil (or coils, Im not sure if you have a single dual output coil or two coils) and to earth. If the problem goes away then the Power Box or its connections could be at fault.
If no better then
4. return the components to Boyer for checking. I had exactly this on an old Honda with a Boyer, They checked it twice and found it was fine but the problem of intermittent cutting out continued until I replaced the whole unit which did sort it.
Good luck!
I see brother Dan is a mini fan, send him up my way please, I need to fit an alarm to my mini like you I'm not good with electrics!
Hard for dom to even get his brother to have time lol 👀
You have done the classic - changing something (carb) that didn't need to be changed. Rig up a simple total loss battery, points and coil system for testing. Then check coils, caps etc if trouble remains.
Hi Dom, ditch the Boyer . Recently had the same issues on an friends bike , the control box was funky . Replaced with a PMA with a built in CDI unit . Check out electrix world part number STK-102D- DC to fit your triumph . If you don’t want to go that far I’ve fitted a couple of WASSELL electronic ignition kits that have worked great. Good luck fella , loving your channel 👍
Thank you I’ll look into it!
Thank you I appreciate the help!
Great video Dom. Simply go back to points. Electronic ignition is not the greatest panacea that people think, that engine would be a lot happier too👍🏼
The video editing was a great success, better luck with the bike!
The typical English wiring problem seems they can build great cars and motorcycles but the electrical systems have some type of curse on them. Leaned from owning multiple triumph sports car.. lol great vid Dom 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Depending on your ignition setup, You might want to check the connection to your coils and consider replacing them as they can deteriorate over time and misbehave in the way you are seeing.
If the coils are the original ones, then there’s a risk that there are internal short circuiting happening. Also when the rev ups the voltage.
They are all new
New.....and tested?!
Hi Dom, you'll get there. Not sure the new specs are pointing quite where you're looking.
Good video, vastly improved without the music.
As someone else said, the BB battery less ignition maybe faulty. I had similar issues with my 69 650 Bonneville, the alternator just wasn’t up to the job of keeping the juice to the lights and ignition, this was 20yrs ago. I just refitted a 12v battery, that sorted it.
An excellent first try at the editing Dom, well done.
Maybe the fates are protecting you. Cable drum brakes, oil leaks, those off road chocolate block squirmy tyres, no Speedo and that knacker catcher on the tank. You are a braver man than me Dom good luck.
Dom top marks for the editing like a pro, not bad video from glasses but they look like my Poundland ones i only wear in Garage alone😁
A nice Elvis Costello vibe with the RayBans.
The editing was fine. I feel your frustration about the electrics in the bike. Hopefully there is a solution.
Great episode as
Always 👍😊
A fine piece of camera work complete with music well done on an excellent video.....
Remove points cover plate and check the connections just a thought 👊🏴
Electrics......,The Black Art, it is all magic to me. Dom, re the Dell'Orto - make sure that you have free play on the choke cable, otherwise the choke plunger will be held off the jet and will give you a very rich mixture, also, you may need a smaller pilot jet.