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Intel 13th Gen + Unraid + Plex = OMG4K!
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- Опубліковано 6 сер 2024
- Maybe 4K transcoding isn't so bad..
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00:00 Intro
01:18 The build specs
02:37 The new server
03:12 The 4K
04:08 The RAM
04:45 The file
05:28 The Storage
05:41 The Results
07:56 The energy
09:37 The blabbering
10:35 The End
OMG! The glitchy, cyberpunk style transitions. No!
Are these intentional? I can’t watch this. Fine for an intro, but not throughout.
Agreed
@@lunamonkey I think there is some usefulness in-video, but it should be used sparingly. It’s distracting and even annoying.
I do understand it’s creators trying to be more “creative”. It’s the same when they experiment with the random 90 degree profile cuts.
I was coming to the comments to say the same thing (maybe a little more nicely but still 😜 )
Just a little trial n error :)
I thought my TV was going bad. Nope just Jason with Byte My Bits experimenting with graphics 😅 (please make it stop)
When testing 4K HDR plex transcoding could you please include tests with subtitles? Especially for the PGS and SRT formats. I think most people would like to have the option of putting subs in their content. As I far as I know transcoding with subs is a totally different ballgame and even though it is not a something that tests the pure horsepower of the hardware's transcoding capabilities, it is also way more important to know(well at least for me) if and how it can be done.
Transcoding with subs is no more different than transcoding without subs.
Its that certain types of subs cause transcoding. When you don't have enough power to transcode, then it fails.
When you have the power to transcode (in general), subs are a non issue.
@@LordAthens When hardware acceleration is being used for transcoding, burning in subs absolutely does have an impact on slowing down the process. Adding subs into the frame is a single-threaded CPU task. This acts as an unfortunate interruption to the transcode process being done in the GPU. The system needs to send the uncompressed frames from the GPU over to the CPU, wait on the task the CPU does for editing the subs into each frame, and then send the still-uncompressed frames back to the GPU for encoding. It slows down strong machines a great deal. My server can handle 5x 4k to 1080p transcodes at once using Quick Sync to do hardware acceleration. It can't handle just one if I force a sub burn.
@@bgrngodwhat specs do you have?
This is the type of video I crave. Still want to see someone do some deep dives on ARC cards for Plex though.
Happy someone liked it :)
Ditto on the ARC
When you said "4k transloading was stupid and you shouldn't do it" I just said challenge accepted. I recently made the switch from a P4000 back to Intel 13th gen as well. Loving it actually. Handling all my transcodes at less power plus I get to sell a P4000 and the Xeons so it's basically a "free" upgrade.
Did you sell your P4000 yet?
This is "guy math" that I'm here for lol
I will switch my P5000 to the next UHD generation after the UHD 770, when it came out.
Great review... would be very interesting to see how many simultaneous Plex transcodes the Intel 1260p i7 in the NUC 12 Pro can handle
Correction, if server is running at 200W => 4.8kWh per day, 144kWh per month. Realistically you're looking at around 50kWh per month if the server is fully loaded ~10% of the time.
The constant glitch transition is annoying... or am I having a stroke?
My baa my baa
I am planning a newer build and while I understand that drive transcoding is fine for most uses, I would still like to use RAM transcoding. How much RAM should I require/dedicate to for the plex transcoding.
Using Plex in a docker, in Unraid.
Hi Jason! Thank you for another great video. I am a long time subscriber from Brazil. One thing that always keep banging my mind is: How do you do your tests to get this numbers of transcodes? I never got anything near your numbers. Can you please make a video to show the process? Once again Thank you very much! Happy holidays! Take care!
I would be interested in H264 vs H265 4K an transcoding. Also how much of a longer start time on the video would you have having all the files on the SSD vs on HDD vs on NAS. My setup today is a i7-12700 pc, but the video files are on a synology NAS.
Thank you for the helpful information on how the new 13th gen performs on plex, as well as the power usage, which is very helpful . I currently have a server and it's nice to see just how much these new 13th gen cpus can reap the cost back to pay for itself over say a 2 years period of running 24 7 . Thank you
Love the motherboard you picked. I’m looking at the same pair but with i5 13600k. Pick up the great work sir.
Good Video, Have you tried to test with Trunas scale? I'm curious about the results.
is this processor clock speed based or core/threads + ram based? i have an epyc build with 256GB of ram and 64TB of space that is collecting dust at this point. figured i would try to utilize it for plex
Hey pefect that I've found your videos. I just started building my first unraid workstation with the 13900k. Were you able to pass through the cpu's iGPU to a vm? That's the point I'm currently struggelling with. I'm excited for more unraid videos :)
If you pass through to a VM, whatever you passed through becomes the sole 'ownership' of the VM, so it can no longer be shared with the rest of the system.
The key here is to stop using VM's and use containers (which can share resources) instead.
Yeah, exactly what I needed to watch since I just hit the button this morning to upgrade from a 1950X + GTX1050 Unraid server to a 13900K with an ASUS Creator motherboard. Been watching the threadripper "idle" at 15% cpu usage while an equally configured friend's 5700G idles at 2%...figured there'd be some power savings to be had by finally moving to a modern processor.
I've been wondering how XE was coming on in Unraid with Plex.
Thank you for finding out.
I use handbrake to get my files down to 1440p anyway and the file size on that is around 3-6gb on a HDR film but i haven't been able to find evidence it'll even work with the new iGPU's at all.
I have a 5700x and 1080ti and 4K hasn't been a problem for a while for me. The only limiting factor is out of the house streaming as my upload is crap so I would need to transcode 4K (which works just fine) but I always have a 1080p duplicate for those scenarios. As someone mentioned previously, going with the x64 version improved performance dramatically!
I can't do streaming because my entire internet is garbage can't get more than 3mbps down but it runs worse than dial up because I get 977ms ping and they're the only company here and starlink isn't even here either smh wish I can move hate this internet
I don't bother with 4K video files. Takes 8x as much space as 1080p. Not worth it. I have two 14TB drives that are already halfway filled with movies and T.V. shows.
@@ericinla65 it’s not 8x as much space, it’s more like 1.2-2x for full quality rips. Even compressed are about the same for the same quality.
I do separate copies as well. What sucks is I just upgraded my 2700X to a 5800X because of the Black Friday sale, but I was trying to find a compatible Intel build so I could get the igpu transcoding, and leave the 1660 for gaming. Now it’s installed so I can’t return it. 😢
I've been watching your videos for years and love them. Could please make a video or videos of a plex setup on a PC and Synology NAS. Also how do you get a 4K file to look so good in your browser? Thanks for your hard work!!
How easy was it to get 128GB to clock at 5200? I couldn't find any boards that say they tested more than 4800.
Exceptional content. I did however think my GPU was artifacting!!!! The the transitions, the glitch effects are entirely unnecessary jeeeezus its so trippy :)
Just ordered my 13700k to upgrade from my 9900(non-k). Can't wait to start playing with the upgraded quick sync and separating the p cores from the e cores for my Gaming VM. Also taking the opportunity to upgrade from 32gb to 64 gb.
Will you be doing an Apple TV 2022 vs Shield Pro since the ATV does Dolby vision/atmos now?
Hi, nice Video. I have a question, run the plex Media Server an a docker or in a VM (win or whatever)? I use a plex docker, 770UHD Igpu too, but it Cant 4k Transcode on igpu, only 1080 runs in hw. In 4k i have high cpu usage. Can you Show your plexmedia setup please.
Thanks
Would the iGPU transcoding work on a Plex instance inside a docker container ran on Debian in Proxmox?
In your unraid setups, where do your 4K transcode occurs? On the SSDs or a folder mounted on your RAM? is there any bottleneck improvement/difference between the 2.
in unraid it can be changed to anywhere. usually though the transcodes occur in the appdata folder somewhere
Awesome video Jason!
So I want to buy the same CPU and use Plex. Which OS do you use, debian 11.6 ? Did transcoding work out of the box with plex? thx michael
About that SimplyNuc that you got. Would this be able to do the same thing? I want 4K, but afraid of the storage space and bandwidth requirements.
So good!
Do you think those numbers transcoding are similar on other processors that have the 770 graphics? Like would the i5 12600 have similar results or does the core count matter as well?
Honestly any 6th gen or newer Intel igpu has great quicksync transcoding performance. Take a look at the JDM transcoding guide over at serverbuilds. Personally I use a 9th gen i3 and transcodes look great.
@@Revilloc11
Thank you very much for the info that is a good read.
Personally I plan on running a few dockers and VM so I will probably go for at least an i5 and currently in Australia there is only $20 different between equivalent 10th and 12th gen cpus so I think the latest version is probably worth it. Obviously there is second hand, but again there really isn't much difference in price
Yes. I've been running a i5 12600k for over a year and can confirm the same performance. I've been preaching about it for 6 months. Everything all the way down to a i5 12500 uses the UHD 770 and will yield the same results.
@@Revilloc11that's funny I have an i5-9500t and it's constantly buffering.
would u recommend a nuc13 having experienced this?
That intro……bro great job 👏🏾
You energy statements are completelly wrong. 50W * 24 = 1.2kwh per DAY! not per month as you state.
any chance we can find out how many 1080p we can really transcode? dont think this can do over 70 transcodes
I run a 10900 (non K) in my server and it’s able to handle 4k HEVC on multiple transcodes without breaking a sweat at quite a bit less power. I’m waiting for hardware support for VVC before I upgrade again.
I mirrored your setup, but I can't seem to get the DDR5 memory to stay stable at 4 DIMMS. I set a manual XMP profile and got the system to recognize the full 128GB, but when I run MemTest86 I get hundreds of errors. If you could let me know how you managed to get things running smooth, I'd appreciate it! (btw... love the channel!)
Love the new editing
I'm interested in knowing more about your 4K source used in your tests. Was it a BluRay UHD remux, BluRay rip or web download? Was does it have HDR, HDR10 or Dolby Vision? Thanks!
The video includes this information @ 4:46 (HEVC, HDR10, 7.1 Dolby TrueHD, 43.83 GB, 54 mbps bitrate). I'll let you extrapolate the source type.
Are you running this on unraid? I didn’t think they hard higher then 10th gen cpu graphics support
how does the 13th gen intel graphics compare to Intel NUC i5 12th gen (1240p i5) when it comes to Plex transcoding??
I'm not very familiar with how plex works; instead of transcoding can you just use it to access optimized files? Like instead of transcoding from a 44gb file what if I just already have a 6gb h.265 file
Can you test with HDDs rather than SSDs? That would be a more real world test, since we don't have full arrays of SSDs
And ssd on the unraid array is a bad idea too.
@@39zack. Why is it a bad idea? Wouldn’t that only be true is if you have an SSD as a parity drive?
@@robertt9342 as far as I understand it, unraid does not support ssd on the array at all, together with trim.
So if you run ssd on the array you do it år your own risk.
As får as I understand it pools does support ssd and trim, but if that has something to do with unraid or btfs I'm unsure of.
There is an trim plugin but I think it only work on unassigned ssd.
There is an post named "TRIM support for SSD in array" on the unraid forum.
The post "SSD Array for unraid?" also have good info
@@39zack Don’t most ssds for the past decade have some kind of garbage collection that should help mitigate. Also for storage with many reads limited writes, will not having trim matter?
Edit: quick look up. You can manually run trim with pre 6.9 and also, but post 6.9 using btfs it has it own command that runs automatically.
@@robertt9342 maybe, have not looked into it lately :( But the parity would not work right tho, just looked that up, seems to be no change there yet.
What about HDR and Tone mapping - were all of these tone mapped?
Also was that under Windows or Linux as OS?
unraid from the topic
Great vid. Putting them black Friday unRAID pro keys to use
trial :)
I made your last plex trancode build with the 12th gen and I noticed when my Apple TV would try to transcode a 4k movie to say 1080p you would get a lot of stuttering
Hi I have a question will it be the same with emby? Or do you think not?
Hate to be that guy ,but all the flickering was getting to me. Liked the new intro though. Good video as always besides that!
just experimenting, appreciate the feedback! :)
@@Bytemybits I figured that. I don't mind it here and there but this video was too much of it.
This is why I have a 12100. I just upgraded from a 4770K and a GTX 1080. I haven't tried tdarr yet, but Plex is awesome on it even with 32GB of RAM. I don't have a large userbase that would ever require five simultaneous transcodes, let alone 18+ though.
You won't see quite the performance, definitely not 18 transcodes. The i3 12100 uses the UHD 730 vs the more powerful UHD 770 in the video. Everything from i5 12500 on up has the UHD 770.
For us budget folk, you think a 13600K could do at least 1/4 of that? I'll gladly wait til I NEED to upgrade and am able to transcode without a GPU for my none 4k displays.
I had issue with 1x 4K transcoding stream using a quadro P2000. Found out I was using x86 and not x64 version of Plex server on Windows. Changing version gave me up to 10x the performance. You should do a test and video about this since iv seen many with similar issue.
The issue isn't power or 'performance'. A 5gb P2000 will run out of VRAM long before it hits a processing limit.
With 5GB of VRAM on a P2000, you can expect 4-5 4K transcodes. Even a 12gb Nvidia card isn't going to touch what the UHD 770 can do in transcodes. Since even a i5 12600 has the UHD 770, you can get away with a very inexpensive build and get the same transcode performance as what was in the video.
Are you going to test plex with the new M1 and M2 apple silicon?
Will the Intel 14700k cpu be good cpu for plex 4K. Dedicated plex cpu only.. Not sure how much ram do I need..
So what is the bitrate that Plex can provide in this setting?
if the source is over 20MBps, (40-60GB movie) - can plex stream 1:1 (in the local network and outside)?
Thank you!
Hey Jason..I have a question out of the blue..How many Movies do you have? and if its a personal question I apologize, just curious!
I can't see to go above 480p 2-3Mbps transcode when I'm not at home on my iPhone, I can't see where I can change it that I haven't checked out yet 😥
what about the igpu shared memory in the bios, what are your settings?
Hi! I am wanting to use up to 5 simultaneous streams of 4K movies what processor, motherboard, ram, and so on would you recommend??
this haha
i am curious about how much bandwidth was needed to play that many streams. Or even just 5 streams because yeah network matters.
I've been 4k transcoding for years on my desktop tower plex server - even on my ryzen 5900x (even with some slight frustration - it worked!) I also just purchased a QNAP ts-464, slapped in 32gb ram and 2 1tb ssd's - and it handled like 5 4k transcodes (to 1080, 720, and SD, direct play - all simultaneously). It's more than possible with lots of hardware, especially with intel quicksync
Love the new style!
I’m very interested in seeing how many transcodes you can get with intel deep link (intel processor +graphics card) plz do a vid on that. 😊
When you build your server can you show how you build it and configure it may be in a 2 part videos?
Should a nas and Plex server be the same system or separate?
Please reupload a glitch free clean version of this.
Am I missing something, I’m using a i7-7700 with a gtx 1070 and I can stream 4k plex to my LG tvs without any lag and issue ?
I love my 12th gen intel I7 12700k alder lake processor for my Plex server. I currently use just the internal gpu on it for Plex. It blows my old 8th gen intel I had. It even does 1080p gaming. It’s not ideal for gaming but works. I can run ms flight simulator 2020 but will complain my pc is not capable on start up. It is fine on older games.
How did you run Plex? Docker or VM?
I really wanna make a new server. My old one is a nvidia shield pro with 2 8tb external drives and I wanna get either a 11th/12th gen intel for all this stuff lol. I just have 0 idea where to start and what drives to get and all that 😅
Never ran any of the unraid stuff or Linux just plugged and played with the nvidia but I’m willing to learn. Your videos somewhat help but not with the actual process of choosing hardware but still good non the less.
You can do 4k transcoding on Intel QSV going as far back as Kaby Lake processors with Plex including HDR>SDR Tonemapping. I have had a i5-10400 for 2.5 years now and have had zero issues with 4K transcoding with tonemapping other than Plex breaking there official container a few times.
It’s not that you can transcode 4k,it’s how many! Plus you have 8 more cores that are 80% as fast as what’s in your i5-10400
I use unraid as a stroage sever for my 4K, blu-ray and TV Shows. I make exact copies from the disc. I then use a Zapitti Reference series 4K player to play the movies and TV shows in their true native quality. If i do not want to use the player i will use infuse on my Apple TV and play the movie directly from the server and it works beautifully! The only time i will use Plex anymore is if i go to a friends or families house which generally they dont care about res, so i use the 1080p version that i would rip onto Plex
Hi , do think 4K HDR plex transcoding will be better on 15th gen intel CPU ?? , Please update this video...
how many 4k streams from spinning drives?
Jason, I comment all the time, but welcome to transcoding 4k. I love it!! Transcode 4k all day with my 10850K. Transcodes 4k in seconds, just like watching netflix, no buffers, SO fucking clear. I moved up from a AMD 9590!!! I still love that beast too.
fyi, 10850k have 770 graphics, kicks so much butt. And I went with the 10850k instead of the 11900k because the extra cores, and it was cheaper than the 11900k, and the 12900k that were already out, duh right, and got a gigabyte z570 with 10G onboard. Like it barley flexs with me and the couple people that might ever use it, but I wanted light fast 4k. Thats enough reason for me alone.
Edits and music on this video really worked for me. Nicely done Jason!
Yay!! Someone lived ittt mooore! Seems most say it was very bad decision. Lol
I’m still struggling with your monthly power usage. It seems you’re quoting daily usage ( W x 24 ) not monthly usage ( W x 24 x 30 ) or am I needing to do this on a spreadsheet? Hmmm…
Ah shi.... Did I calculate it on a day rate...
Lemme re-check
@@Bytemybits Yes, your 4.8KwH was for 200w x 24h or one day; It's 144KwH for a month. :)
Power consumption 50W
Energy price 0.08$ / kWh
Usage time 24 hours / per day
Power consumed 1.2 kWh / per day
Power consumed 36.5 kWh / per month
Cost 2.92 $ / per month
OK I did the math correctly for the cost but I said it incorrectly. I said the per day totals but calculated the monthly total. oops.
@@Bytemybits I was looking for this comment because it sounded way off when you said it. :D
Given the price of the components, the best choice would be to move to a place served by fiber.
Kidding aside, what's the point of storing large files in 4k for viewing in 720p?
Does the integrated UHD770 graphics support AV1 decode?
Yes, up to 10-bit en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video
im wondering what would an ARC 770 be capable in terms of transcoding? is there support from unraid 6.11.5 for Intel Arc?
There are plenty of ARC plex/jelly youtube videos out there.
That's wild af!
I have a G4560 (it's a 6th gen Pentium). It can do 5 4k transcodes in parallel, even on proxmox passthrough... You could buy the whole system for about £50.
50Wats * 24H = 1,2kwh / day. So for moth is 1,2kwh * 30= 36kwh. For year is 1,2kwh * 365=438kwh. So from where you get those numbers?
I have tried 4k direct streams with mixed results. Typically using fire stick devices. but found my LG oled built in smart brain was able to do it sort of reliably ...was happy for awhile then things got weird. some things that played right would later go pink on me. I think it's HDR issue? ...but also most 4k is x265 which isn't really support by plex players? then there is dolby vision and other forms of 4k?
I would love to transition to providing 4k streams but how can we make sure people can play them on their end? Regardless of transcoding issues? Would be happy for now just figuring out how to make 4k reliably play through my fire cube at home by direct stream.
If/when I do I will have 4k in their own category. Don't mind having separate copies ...at least not yet.
...oh and this build has me drooling! what was the wallet damage?
Sticks = 4K on wifi though, which is a big problem right there
@@Energyone Which is why I have the ethernet adapter ...and it has no problem doing 4k from streaming services(25mbs) ...and I did have limited success streaming 40mbs 4k. So bandwidth shouldn't be the issue.
I've been transcoding 4k on my 10th gen i3 for awhile, and it works great, processor doesn't even break a sweat with multiple streams. I use a cheap ssd for the transcoding drive, much cheaper than having extra ram to do that. I haven't worn it out yet. You really don't have to spend much money on a server to handle 4k. Just intel cpu and plex pass and you're good. As far as 4k content in my library, I just mix it all in together with other HD content. With Plex, if you go into posters there is always a poster that has the 4k UHD stripe on one of them. I make that the poster and then I know whats 4k and not. Also, I created a smart collection for 4k content if I want to just browse 4k stuff.
what's those glitchy screens? can't event watch
I use an i5-11500 for plex. It has a Intel® UHD Graphics 750 and for me kinda a best value for money type cpu. Works a treat
Me too! It really rips for the money! I can transcode at least 5 simultaneous 4K (full remux), running Plex in a container on Unraid.
Mini-PCs go for around $500 on ebay. What about other i5s like -5000ish series? Those are under $100 on ebay even with SSD & 16gb ram. I think most of us are looking for something that can transcode 1-3 4k streams and little else. Always on with MINIMAL power use. Think raspberry pi goal of 5w dormant, 15w active.
@@razoraz That will not work. You need to look at something better (!) than Intel UHD Graphics 630 if you want to do anything with 4K. Transcoding 1080p with UHD 630 is perfect though...
Imagine AV1 transcoding with Meteor Lake!
Finally, A new hope for 4k.
So is the intel 770 better than Nvidia P2000 for transcoding?
I second this question.
very much so, yes.
@@Bytemybits wow! Do a video testing the streams between the both if you can. I been rocking the p2000 for 5 years now for plex. Might be time to retire it
@@FeelTheVoid I been rocking the p2000 with ddr4 and 5400 rpm drives, i haven't been having any issues but i'll def want to upgrade in the next 2 years
If I understand Unraid you are only pulling a given file from a single hard drive. So instead of transcoding a single 4K movie file what if you tried transcoding 18 different 4K files from an Unraid array of spinners? That’s a lot of data, throughput could be an issue?
Didn’t he say in the video that his test server for this was running dads for the content?
I like my 13500, but I do see a marked difference between 1080p native and 4k transcoded down to 1080p - Native is way better.
However, I CAN transcode like at least five 4k streams if i need to, never tested more.
Protip, the 13500 has the exact same igpu as the 13900k - dont waste your money on the i9 if you dont need the cpu power.
I'm spinning 24 drives all the time and I pull 200 to 250 watts.
So I'd been kicking around building a new Plex server, and in fact left a comment a few months ago about maybe going 12th gen.
Well, this morning I saw that Microcenter was having a sale on a bundle, which includes:
* i7 12700k
* Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite AX motherboard
* G.Skill Ripjaws V 16 GB (DDR 4)
All of that for only $350!! I picked up a bundle, it sounded like a really good deal to me. Just the CPU alone is routinely selling for $300.
This will be the backbone of my new Plex server, I'm excited to see how well it does. My current build has a 10 year old CPU.
Sounds like with that much data, you could have a throughput issue. Perhaps you could try a RAID 0 with 2 disks or a Raid 1+0 for redundancy.
On a side note, I download the BMB content, and the software probably changed so that it downloaded your videos at highest rating possible, I guess 4k. Then when I'd stream it, the TS-832x Qnap would transcode and constantly buffer. I know there are some tweaks to check out especially on your last video, so I'll look them over.
Wouldnt even be close for SSDs, you'd probably even get away with it on regular harddrives.
I've been doing 4K transcoding using an old 3770S CPU + NVIDIA T400 GPU. It even does 4K HDR to SDR tone mapping, but what kills it is doing Dolby True HD. LOL If I switch my stream to the core AC3 5.1 audio, it's near flawless.
Interesting 🤔
Can't wait to spend half of my original budget on this build. Thanks for highlighting where I can get away with less.
Maybe not the place for this but when are you going to get some arc gpu testing in for us with AV1 encodes as I feel AV1 is the future old man!
What about the 12900k?
I enjoy your content even though I'm on the other side of the fence (Jellyfin, I cannot stand some things about plex) Agree with what you said about 4k transcodes though, most modern devices will direct play pretty much anything. Flippin apple devices are a never ending nightmare when it comes to playing HEVC video, they absolutely suck.
I've been rocking AV1 4K flawlessly at 2000K avg bitrate to my 4k TV and the picture quality is awesome
There is an issue with intel 13th and 14th gen processors so if your getting stability issue especially with lots of ram or high ram speeds you might be affected. Did you memtest it configured as is? Saying x 4k streams means little when we have no idea what the source bitrate is and what the final output bitrate is. We also dont know your network capability and transcoding disk performance which all affects the process.