5 Underused Legion Units You Should Consider for Horus Heresy
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2024
- In this video, I tell you about 5 underused (but actually pretty good!) Space Marine Legion units that you should consider using in your armies for Horus Heresy: Age of Darkness.
I walk you through the units, and explain why they're good alternatives to more common units from both a gameplay and a hobby perspective!
Intro 00:00
In this video... 00:14
Why this video? 00:37
Sky-Hunter Squadron 01:35
Proteus Land Speeder Squadron 04:16
Vindicator Squadron 07:17
Seeker Squad 11:57
Veteran Squad 14:41
Summary 17:52
One suggestion would be to add pictures of these units you’re talking about.
Otherwise, good video.
I think Veterans are easily one of the coolest squads in 30k, you can do so much with them to have them stick out! Plus, thunder hammers are awesome and the sergeant getting access to it is amazing, even if it is way too many points lmao.
I'm very annoyed they can't take volkite chargers tbh. I want my dreadwing laser bois
I like mine to have 4 combi meltas, about 3 power peapobs and a fist jumping out of a rhino, shooting and then being able to charge the next turn.
Vets are also a great counter unit for despoilers! Who will not get their +1 attack bonus for charging chosen warriors. I’m looking to run a unit in emperors children with a couple heavy flamers to have a versatile counter charge unit.
Peapobs is definitely something I’d type on my iphone keyboard.
@@chalman94 You could go for Combi Chargers, same thing basickly exept you get that extra bolter shot(s) and only a little more expensive.
Some more visual aids/unit pics wouldn't go amiss in the videos but your contents are spot on
Thanks Richard! I mostly keep it simple due to time constraints but I may try making it a bit nicer in future!
My Nemesis Bolter + Power Maul Vets have been doing some real work for me, the relentless on them lets you dodge things you dont really wanna be near (like 2+ save guys) and their ws5 power weapon attacks are really good at splatting melee counters who only have a 3+ save! Expensive, but a lot of fun! Especially in PotL!
Sounds epic!
Loving each video so far as I’m getting into HH myself. Can’t wait for a sons of horus deep dive!!
This channel is ace and has been so helpful for my hobby. Thanks buddy
again, loving the content. thank you kindly.
Great content as always! Keep it up, we appreciate it.
Much appreciated!
I love my vindicator laser destroyer. Its my only tank, so I have used it in every game. Does very well at anti-armor, can easily take out preds, spartans, or sicarans.
I've got a regular vindicator and I'm wondering now what's to stop me basically taping together some spare lascannons, sticking them down the Demolisher barrel and saying "That's a laser destroyer".. admittedly it would involve more elaborate conversion work than that mind.
I already ordered a sky hunter squadron last week for my SoH cause I liked the idea of zooming around and just mucking with people's plans from an unexpected quarter... The Vindicator and the vets sound like a fun idea though(vindicator might not fit as well as I'm leaning towards going in with a few Rhinos for giggles and worry there might be too many tanks in the army being a pain to deal with... The vets could make a nice little bulwark in an infantry line though...
Great video as always. I’m thinking of running a squad of vets with nemesis bolters.
I think Outriders with twin-linked flamers also look interesting - great movement speed and a template weapon that rerolls its wounds can be great for hunting down some objective campers or similar
I'm really happy with your content. Keep up the good work
buddy!
Thank you!
You forgot an important one: Literally any command squad.
They're cool, they're thematic - and they're actually awesome. The 'normal' ones are Veterans with free Artificer armor (and a banner so they get Line and a LD10 bubble until he gets sniped out). Command veterans are literally the cheapest 2+ models in the game. The Terminators do cost more, but they get WS5 over the normal ones and that banner.
Really, unless you have another specific plan for your HQs involving one of your legion special units, you should really take a command squad.
I'm not sure why I haven't seen more people gushing about the amazing upgrade command squads got this edition - I don't think I've seen a single list yet that uses a command squad - why is that? They're great, and they're super cool.
Everybody uses command squads, theyre amazing!
@@Hearesy What?! Really? Not what I've seen - hopefully they catch on! Even the battle reports I've seen are conspicuously absent command squads.
@@jacobbodmer3159 check their banner, it's almost the best wargear in the game if you exclude Primarchs imo.
@@Hearesy any tips on how to kit out an emperor's children command squad?
Big unwieldy weapons so that you can strike at I2!
Veterans with a few shotguns, combi grenade-launchers, power axes and a legion champion. Lower the enemy's WS, pin them, then charge in and hit elite squads on 3s, regular squads on 2s with the legion champion. Not most effective use for your points, surely, but it gives you a unit with character and it'll feel great if you're able to pull it off :D
Got a tooled up vet unit,going to make another. Feels cool for SoH and good in Pride RoW with terminators/justaerin etc
I converted a 40k 10 man tactical squad into a 30k veteran squad for Iron Hands. It's a bit of fun. Power fist, chain swords, power sword, combi plasma, grav gun, missile launcher, vexilla. 5 additional guys with base load outs to fill out the unit. Attached Herald to make them line.
I definitely feel like Skyhunters, and pry Javelins, will sneak their way into my army as a way to get some guns on the field (given as I'm playing DG my Elite and Heavy slots are both pretty busy).
Veterans make plenty of sense as well to me.
Was already using a seeker squad and a proteus land speeder squad in my list. Another interesting option for the land speeders is the Culverins, they are cheapish 75 points each for 2 per model, and in a full squad of 5 you get 50 str 6 deflagrate shots. But a squad of 4 with double grav guns backed up by a vox, mathematically, kill any non super heavy vehicle or non leviathan dread per shooting phase.
i wonder why bikes and jet bikes didn't keep the increased toughness, it seemed more apt. I'd put bikes and jet bikes back to their v1 stats and use them like that.
Veterans really should have gained line in several rites of war, pride of the legion is the obvious one, but several legion specific rite of war could have line veterans no problem.
The problem with blast weapons is the LoLRandumb deviation, 1 in 3 chance of landing on target or 2/3rds chance of landing up to 8" away....
For the vindi I think you took the wrong example with cataphractii 😜
They are heavy meaning they reroll the failed save against template/blast
Si the demolisher is not that great against them cause of that
Same for the flamers, lots of unit have the heavy subtype in v2
I got 3 speeder for 10€ each thanks to you it will. Be double grav all the way hehe
Thanks for the vids as always 👍
I was thinking making a veteran squad with power weapons, some shotguns and rotor cannons for my night lords. Hit them with pinning, fear (1), concussive and then charge. Expensive but could be very fun
Great episode! Hydra Dominatus tho)
Thanks! (On it)
Just wanted to mention that if they don't rend, cataphracti get to reroll their armour save Vs the demo cannon which kinda wrecks their effectiveness against them specifically.
Ugh, brain fart. I started with pointing out their effectiveness vs dreadnoughts and artificer and changed the slide halfway through writing. Thanks for pointing that out, silly mistake!
Great video, i really enjoy your content and you have become one of my heresy go to channels.
I have a question about seeker squads, i play alpha legion and I'm unsure if i should use seeker squads when i have access to headhunter squads. Loorewise i think the headhunters fit better and are cooler but i like the diversityof the kraken bolters. Any advice on what i should take?
Sorry if this question is a bit of topic.
Id use headhunters for sure. Getting rapid fire, albeit short range, and keeping the breaching makes them a level up. Theyre very scary to play against
Thanks a lot, i was really unsure which of them to take.
I Really love your videos, keep up the great work!
Thanks a lot! Much appreciated
I run a 10 man Vet squad with Chaplain and Apothecary in a Land Raider alongside my Gal VOrback Squad
I am painting a vindicator right now actually! After playing against wordbearers with their warpfire I decided this was the proper solution, and I'd imagine it's the same conclusion the Imperial Fists would come to themselves. I didn't see the advantage of recon over seekers. My fists aren't going to use recon marines for objectives anyway. The plan is one nemesis seeker squad covering a kraken seeker squad. The non-praetor disintegrator option is just too good. At least in theory. The consensus from other Fists players is they're ignoring veterans entirely because of templar brethren. I've always thought they were expensive for a bunch of power swords, and all their upside from special rules and buffs are loaded into the charge. If they don't get it done in that first fight phase they're like the carriage turned back into pumpkins. I like the flexibility of veterans. You can run them in different roles depending on their loadouts whereas templars are always just a missile and the opponent likely knows it, too. Idk, again it's just theory at the moment.
Seekers are an odd one to work with. Sure, you can give them Nemesis Bolters, but for the 10pts/model you're paying for them, the only real benefit they're getting over the Kraken Bolter is 72" and Pinning. Due to being pre-packaged with Precision Shot (4+), Seekers don't really benefit a whole lot from being a sniper unit, and in fact are worse for it. What they're really good at doing however is allowing you to take a Land Raider in a Fast Attack slot and infiltrating or outflanking with it.
Recon Squads may not seem like ideal objective grabbers, but their versatility shouldn't be underestimated at their points cost, especially compared to Seekers. Given an Auspex Scanner, even a small 5-man Recon Squad with Nemesis Bolters can camp a backline objective pretty effectively as a defensive unit (shroud bombs and the Skirmish sub-type make them pretty hard to dislodge once they're in cover), and considering that you're collecting Imperial Fists they're already going to be rocking the legion's +1BS with bolt and auto weapons anyway, effectively allowing them to hit on 2+ at BS5. Any other legion would be forced to spend at least an additional 20 points for the same-sized unit of Seekers for this same benefit, if not character access to a 10-point Cognis-Signum. Plus, Recon Squads don't take up a Fast Attack slot.
@@liammorgan1413 100% excellent breakdown. I eventually came to the same conclusion. playing with the idea of scout squads as a cheaper nemesis bolter platform. the weapon range already forces a decision on the opponent andthe Light sub-type means they can still fire snapshots after running (16"!) which can make them more annoying and distracting. Plus, they're cheaper. a recon squad and scout squad together at different vantage points could make for an annoying headache. I've more or less given up the idea of seekers given all the ranged firepower in the legion - looking at veterans for that WS5 but with different loadouts that just power swords from templar brethren and they'd still be hitting on 2s with auto/bolt weapons to close the gap.
Plastic vindicators are announced, so I might add it to my detachment
Would you consider doing a compare and contrast video between company command squads and veteren squads? On the face of it they seem fairly similar aside armour.
Huge difference is that CCS gets a banner, line and an Ld buff is huge. Vets arent even close to how good the CCS is, although of course they need a praetor so a fairly different use case!
Love the video! On the Proteus Land Speeder though, I'm not sure where you get the comment for the shrouded save? They have harbingers of the legion which seems to let you reroll shrouded, but does that imply they get shrouded as well?
They can evade using the reaction, and then they get the save with rerolls which makes them very hard to kill and will waste 55% of your lascannon shots which is a big deal. A steal for 10 points to track those fast movers!
Controversial opinion time - I think the old Mars pattern vindicator looks better than the new one that's just been previewed. That ridiculously massive dozer blade is just the classic look of the vindicator for me!
I've been considering Vets for a Pride of the Legion Salamanders list to get more bodies on the board. They can get some Dragon's Breath Pistols, Flamers, and Heavy Flamers to roast units that get too close. While they hold objectives my Terminators can do more smashing!
Sounds toasty and would look great!
I plan on using vet squad for iron hands. Going to to use mix of melee and shooty. Also drop pod doesent break force org chart.
Your math is wrong on the Vindicator vs. Cataphractii Terminators. The terminators are heavy, so they get a rerollable 2+ save vs the demolisher cannon. Even with Brutal 3, they'd have to roll 2 one in a row in order to suffer instant death.
As a noob getting into the White Scars, I am naturally inclined to field as many Sky Hunter squads as possible. What are your thoughts on Outriders? I was thinking about including some plasma outriders since they're twin-linked, though perhaps the twin-linked flamers are worth a look at as well?
Theyre ok and definitely youll want them for scars variety. But jetbikes would be a better bet generally i think.
I've seen Disintegrators in the lists but are there FW disintegrator models? The only one I can think of is the combi-disintegrator on that very rare limited edition 30th anniversary marine.
No idea, maybe someone else can help?
I'm considering building Veterans. Do they make sense in a BA list? I was considering 4 swords, 1 axe, 1 plasma. Not sure if the axe is a good choice for the sergeant. I've never used veterans so I'm not sure what to make of them. I also consider 5 spears to bully I4 power armor, however it brings tears to my eyes seeing my opponent roll all of his 2+ saves. I really would like to be able to challenge the enemy sergeant and get ir of the pesky artificer.
Iron warriors assualt marines are kind of scary. Pinning pistols and melta bombs.
I haven’t redone the math but have you factored in Terminators can reroll their 2+ armor against vindicator blasts because of the heavy sub type? A rerollable 2+ is insane good!
Edit: Only Cataphractii have heavy so it still works on Tartaros
Where does it say termis can re roll there save against heavy weapons?
Its against blast weapons, with the heavy trait.
@@fowlersrs Lock up in the rulesbook the heavy unit subtype. I think it is often overlooked.
Late to this video clip - would an augury scanner be a worthwhile addition to a 5-7 man seeker squad? I'm working with existing models built for a previous project. One of which is holding an auspex. Cheers!
They are a bit short ranged to make brilliant use of the interceptor or the night fighting part but they can stop infiltrators with it. Probably not the best use of 10 points, that could be any kind of comms device without rules or a points cost!
@@Hearesy thanks for the rapid reply; one seeker with a scanner makes sense visually and quite fluffy/ lore friendly. As I said before these models were intended for a previous project and as such two are armed with combi-meltas - perhaps a less than optimal loadout, however would the addition of some melta bombs to the squad be worthwhile? Or is this pushing it too far in terms of cost and efficacy? Cheers!
I think at that point, id stop with whats on the models. Probably keeps it the most efficient and still looks cool!
@@Hearesy thanks again, after a little converting and some green stuff tweaks a five man seeker squad with 2 combi meltas, one on the Sgt (the Imperial Space Marine anniversary model) wearing **artificer armour** comes to 135pts. The addition of a spare character model armed with plasma pistol and power sword to act as Sgt while keeping the previous model on as a legionary pushes the value of a six man squad up to 170pts. All your advice is much appreciated, more power to you. Cheers.
Any comment on destroyers? I play white scars and I'm not sure if they're worth it, none of my friends really talk about them at all so I'm not sure what to think of basic destroyers or the Red Sons of Death
Theyre not really great right now except as a bodyguard to a moritat! But they are very cool
Veterans are my jam, and they are unironically good in Pride of the Legion, where I bring 2x 10 of em.
Chainswords, power axes, a few missile launchers and a Power Fist. All of these in rhino's of course as I don't want them eating small arms fire before they can do something.
The reason I went in on them is that WS5, which is hard to come by for a few legions, such as my White Scars.
Even tho the Skyhunters are em...not that great defensively, I could consider them to power down my list though, instead of taking 3 javelins with a melta and lascannons.
Just some thoughts.
I could write out my general army in the comment's if people are interested.
I'd love to see that full army list! I'm building up a PotL list myself and it'd be really great to see yours for some ideas :)
@@lesbianmorgoth652 well basically:
Pride of the Legion
HQ
1. Hammer Praetor in Cataphractii
2. Plasma Moritat (suicide unit)
3. Chaplain on bike
Troops:
2x 10 Veterans:
- (how I described them above)
1x 10 Tactical support
- 10x Plasma guns
- Augury scanner
- DT: Rhino
1x 20 Tactical Marines
- 20x bolters
- Augury scanner
- Sgt: artificer
Elites:
1x5 Golden Keshig (stock)
1x Apothecarion
- 3 stock Apothecaries
Fast Attack:
- 3x Javelins
- multi melta's + Lascannons
Heavy Support:
- Sicaran Arcus
- Helical Targeting Array
- searchlights
Retinue:
1x 5 Cataphractii Terminators
- axe + banner
- 2 hammers
- 2x dual LC's
- DT: Land Raider Proteus (stock)
. This be pretty much my list atm, some points leftover for upgrades
@@jw7500 very cool list, thanks!
About the demolishers into the terminators, wouldnt heavy mean its 2+ saves rerolling?
It would! Copy paste from another response:
Brain fart! I started with pointing out their effectiveness vs dreadnoughts and artificer and changed the slide halfway through writing. Thanks for pointing that out, silly mistake!
An other point on sky hunters is that they are one of the only units who can reliably get first turn charges without any support. This can be great to tie up enemy support units!
Die to overwatch on normal BS
@@Connordaboss45 there are plenty of things that can't overwatch or don't have the firepower to take out jetbikes. Artillery and pretty much every tank to name a few.
@@LeopoldZ I don't think you want bikers with chain swords assaulting tanks
@@Connordaboss45 I just assumed they had krak grenades, seems I was wrong. Still, a power fist on the sergeant isn't a bad idea.
👍👍👍
Multimeltas are better on bikes than hss imo.
For sure! Basically unusable on HSS outside of DG.
I've been looking for a reason to run an outrider squadron. Motorcycles are just cool in any setting. I believe you can also load them with autocannons instead of the bolters which is goofy and awesome.
Theyre actually ok with plasma guns if youre playing reasonably fun games or looking to balance your army. They really could do with a little buff though!
Seeker Squads were something of a Dark horse even in 1st Edition. They're hilariously enough also a good way of infiltrating or outflanking with a land raider in a Fast Attack slot.
One thing to keep in mind is that, unlike the previous edition, they lose access to their special ammo when they exchange their Kraken Bolters for anything else (including combi-weapons), so it's ironically one of the few specialist units you'll want to keep equipped with its default armament.
I love my vindis, so I'm sad to say our math is off on Vindicator versus Cataphractii, bc catas are heavy and reroll armour saves against templates. so unless you roll that 6 for rend, the chance of failing 3 rerollable 2+ saves is negligible.
People don't use vets? Weird
Since they lost line, they’ve dropped from lists quite a bit
5pts Power Weapons make Vets better than most Legion Specific Combat Troops.
Most legion specific troops have a 2+ saves and pack extra equipment like jump packs, boarding shields, and special. SOME do get the short end of the stick for sure though!
I play SoH and I find because of the 5pts Power Weapon Veterans are better than Reavers. A good shooting attack is probably about even with Counter Attack so they just end up being a lot cheaper for the lose of the Precisions. If the Jump Pack version was Troops and Line in Black Reaving it might be different.
Admittedly Chieftains are WAY better than both and now probably my favourite SoH Legion Specific but they come in the HQ slot so they are limited. If I could run them in Elites or None Compulsory Troops I think that's all I'd take.
Yeh youre totally right about Reavers, SoH got the short end of the stick there :/
It's ok tho. Mournival Events got our back this morning. Lupercii and an Elite Breacher Squad. Loving your content by the way dude.
Well I bought a vindicator today because I listened to this on the way to the shop.
You're bad for my pocket book and respectively now my marriage.
😉
Sorry about that
But at least you have a vindicator
@@Hearesy practical
What about Destroyers units? 🥲