It's important to note that the Omega has Rending 4+ not Breaching 4+ on its maximal fire profile, which is a slight improvement to its ability to pen tanks.
It's actually s pretty big improvement, a four on a d6 followed by a two on a d3 is enough to pen AV 14, with two shots, this has a fairly high chance to happen. It also always pens AV 14 on a five. Not being blast also helps against flare shields :)
Happy to see you've returned! Really appreciated your previous videos as I took my first tentative steps into Heresy. So far, I've used the Punisher and Venator versions of the Sicaran. Been pretty underwhelmed by the Venator so far. I think I've mostly been unlucky but in the 3 games I've used it, I haven't made a single kill (but I love how it looks so I'm going to keep using it). The Punisher has done rather better for me. 16 S6 shots is a pretty good psychological deterrent.
The plastic scorpius turret fits perfectly onto the plastic sicaran hull to easily create an arcus. Also, I have had good luck against Raven Guard by running a proteus explorator with vox disruptor to disorder deep strikes, then place enemy units right down the sights of a sicaran punisher for pinning, or arcus for ap2 instant death. Sorry dark furies....
Yeah I just magnetized the turret on my Sicaran for this very reason. It's a pretty good idea since it emulates an expensive forgeworld model but you can still run the Scorpius as a Rhino when the turret is on the Sicaran.
Sicaran Punisher is pretty good in Night Lords during night flighting. Long range pinning is pretty great. Plus it clears out a couple of Marines so Night Lords can get their Talent for Murder off more often.
I bought an autocannon one from FW right before the age of darkness box was announced and the Sicaran was discontinued. I may have gotten one of the last ones because the guns are bent are the hull gaps are obscene. 😢
@@Hearesy I have one burning question if that’s okay? I’m putting together a Night Lords army and running Terror Assault (obviously) which only has 1 HS slot - if I turn up to my first game with a squadron of 2 Scorpius am I THAT guy?
@@gregpoulter4387 depends on the points and the rest of your list but having 2 under 3k points may be a that guy move. However if the rest of your list is fluff and nothing serious then it may not be an issue.
It depends how serious your game is. Id shy away from more than one as any marines you play will have a bad time and the type of people who *run* lots of marines tend not to be so serious.
Punisher actually, amazingly, makes use of the second part of the EC legion trait, firing defensive weapons at +1BS in reactions. Suddenly that plays mind games with your opponent when the Sicaran is substantially more effective in their turn than yours!
Thanks for another awesome video, it's great to hear that the Punisher might be good in Nightlords, as I happen to have one and was considering NL for a future project. With the plastic kits coming out soonish is there any scope to hear your thoughts on the Typhon and Cerberus?
I agree that the vanilla Sicaran is rather bland at what it brings to the table. I love the model, though. It is so iconic in 30k. It does Rend and it does have a lot of shots, so it has that going for it.
Still a fan of the Arcus even in v2. Standard ammo and sponson las cannons, keep it hidden on the opening turn and it'll do some work against a lot of targets. I like it for removing elite infantry but as an Iron Warrior I can pop medium vehicles if nothing else is around.
I wanna like this tank more maybe the big ass gatling gun one would do it. Also I never realized that there was a venerator. It doesnt show up on forgeworld, at least not in the US. It has a listing and a web page but doesnt appear through any of the filters (there are a few other FW products that won't show up like this either). And I always skipped over the sicarin pages in the book because I never thought about getting any. You are right though, centerline makes it a hard inclusion. Perhaps Death Guard could manage it, though those slots are highly contested for them (any legion really but them particularly).
As a madman who wants to play an Iron Warriors Armored Spearhead, would you recommend a Sicaran as a Master of armor or should I stick with a Predator Chassis?
Hi there, love these revisions. Would like to confirm about the Accelerator cannons. When It says heavy 8, is that for one each ? Since there are two I was wondering if that made it 16 ?. Just like the sponson Gravis Lascannon says Heavy 2, so if we can shoot both sponsons that would make it Heavy 4. I ask because the Gravis Lascannon visually only has one gun on each side and its heavy 2. So if two Accelerators are on the tank, I speculate if the Heavy 8 is for one making it Heavy 16.
Comparing the standard sicaran to the predator with autocannon, I'm not sure its quite as inefficient as you say here (assuming the predator is in an ok place). With autocannon turret weapons and sponson las cannons a sicaran averages 2.12 HP of damage to AV14 and a predator does 1.19 HP to AV14. At 200pts the sicaran is doing 1.06HP of damage per 100pts and the predator at 140pts is doing 0.85HP per 100pts. So the sicaran is actually more efficient on a per point basis than the predator is. It still doesn't totally even out if you assume you're taking predators in squadrons of 2, so paying an average of 132pts instead of 140. There you get about 0.9HP per 100pts, still lower than the sicaran. 2 predators will give you slightly less than the damage output of 1 sicaran vs a landraider and will cost 65 points more. 2 predators definitely will eat more shots to kill than 1 sicaran though. And I agree that the autocannon should just be strength 8 too. Any of the big autocannons (on tanks and dreads) should be instant deathing marines IMO. Or at least they should have breaching 5+ in addition to rending 6+ so that they penetrate infantry armor a little bit better. Its weird having a big gun which can penetrate the armor of a landraider, supposedly a marvel of armored vehicle engineering, that bounces right off of a tactical marine half the time.
Your math is off on the Sicaran AC I think. Ifwe *only* factor raw HP damage vs AV14, the Sicaran autocannon has 2x the shots. Also, the Pred is 130 points, not 140. The Pred AC averages 4*(2/3)*(1/6)=0.444 damage to AV14. The Sicaran AC averages twice that, for 0.888 Two lascannons average 0.733 to AV14. The Pred does 1.17 damage / 130 = 0.009 per point The Sicaran does 1.62 damage / 200 = 0.008 per point So it's over 10% less efficient on a *raw* points level vs AV14. The Sicaran will average slightly more penetrating hits thanks to Exoshock and double shots, BUT this is incredibly swingy thanks to Exoshock's 6+ The Predator also has further advantage vs AV15, which is arguably a more important AV to compare against than 14. It still always glances, where 1/3 of the Sicaran shots fail. TBH though, even though the Maths on the gun comes out in favour of the Predator in this situation, it isn't the whole picture. The main point of contention for why the Sicaran doesn't do so well is that the chassis are almost identical - even if we lived in a world where the Sicaran did have slightly higher damage/points efficiency, it would still be in a bad spot due to its cost vs survivability. AV13 is just squishy, and that's not a huge problem on a 130 point predator, but it is on a 200 point Sicaran that gets 33% more hp, that often is made irrelevent by a pen, for over 50% points uplift!
I think tanks would mostly feel fine, maybe a little on the expensive side, if dreads werent so good. I dont think theyre so far off. Lascannons probably didnt need sunder though.
When you have things like deredeo with it's lascannons and missiles, it's pointless to bring arcus for AA, deredeo not only does it better, it can also more or less 1 shot almost any tank in the game if there is no AA target...and has all those survivability benefits dreadnoughts do.
By dreadnought benchmarks the same is true of most things and I could just stop making content :p We limit dreadnoughts at our events and many casual games to 1/2 in 2k now, as do many others. Also, sometimes you just want to run something different! If you are playing competitively though, yes, dreads all the way of course.
![[UA] Team Vitality проти NAVI | IEM Cologne 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wttO1zVRTC0/mqdefault.jpg)
It's important to note that the Omega has Rending 4+ not Breaching 4+ on its maximal fire profile, which is a slight improvement to its ability to pen tanks.
It's actually s pretty big improvement, a four on a d6 followed by a two on a d3 is enough to pen AV 14, with two shots, this has a fairly high chance to happen. It also always pens AV 14 on a five. Not being blast also helps against flare shields :)
This is the best tank and you can't change my mind.
Looks wise it is 100% up there!
Happy to see you've returned! Really appreciated your previous videos as I took my first tentative steps into Heresy.
So far, I've used the Punisher and Venator versions of the Sicaran. Been pretty underwhelmed by the Venator so far. I think I've mostly been unlucky but in the 3 games I've used it, I haven't made a single kill (but I love how it looks so I'm going to keep using it). The Punisher has done rather better for me. 16 S6 shots is a pretty good psychological deterrent.
bought my sicaran venator today as a christmas present from my daughter. can't wait to build and paint it!
Such a cool model! And what a wonderful daughter :)
Been waiting for this, since this Tank is one of the models that swayed me towards HH over 40k
The plastic scorpius turret fits perfectly onto the plastic sicaran hull to easily create an arcus. Also, I have had good luck against Raven Guard by running a proteus explorator with vox disruptor to disorder deep strikes, then place enemy units right down the sights of a sicaran punisher for pinning, or arcus for ap2 instant death. Sorry dark furies....
Yeah I just magnetized the turret on my Sicaran for this very reason. It's a pretty good idea since it emulates an expensive forgeworld model but you can still run the Scorpius as a Rhino when the turret is on the Sicaran.
Great to see you back 👍
I love my Sicaran, just running the plastic one, and it has done well in every game I brought it in. Considering getting the punisher, as I play VIII
Sicaran Punisher is pretty good in Night Lords during night flighting. Long range pinning is pretty great. Plus it clears out a couple of Marines so Night Lords can get their Talent for Murder off more often.
Great review, thanks! I think you’ve talked me into getting a predator…
Games Workshop commission when :/
Ooooh nice vid! we were talking about this a few days ago
I bought an autocannon one from FW right before the age of darkness box was announced and the Sicaran was discontinued. I may have gotten one of the last ones because the guns are bent are the hull gaps are obscene. 😢
Many thanks again for keeping these coming. Excellent stuff
Glad your back! As a newb I love your videos 👏
Glad they’re useful Greg!
@@Hearesy I have one burning question if that’s okay? I’m putting together a Night Lords army and running Terror Assault (obviously) which only has 1 HS slot - if I turn up to my first game with a squadron of 2 Scorpius am I THAT guy?
@@gregpoulter4387 depends on the points and the rest of your list but having 2 under 3k points may be a that guy move. However if the rest of your list is fluff and nothing serious then it may not be an issue.
@@camerontovey7213 thanks Cameron!
It depends how serious your game is. Id shy away from more than one as any marines you play will have a bad time and the type of people who *run* lots of marines tend not to be so serious.
Punisher actually, amazingly, makes use of the second part of the EC legion trait, firing defensive weapons at +1BS in reactions. Suddenly that plays mind games with your opponent when the Sicaran is substantially more effective in their turn than yours!
Thanks for another awesome video, it's great to hear that the Punisher might be good in Nightlords, as I happen to have one and was considering NL for a future project. With the plastic kits coming out soonish is there any scope to hear your thoughts on the Typhon and Cerberus?
Yep im excited to talk about those!
@@Hearesy awesome man, I've been eyeing up the cerberus as a decent anti tank platform for dealing with terminator filled Spartans at range.
Yep, great shout! I think its a great model with good play. The sicaran venator can do a pretty good job of that too though
Arcus w/lascannons has always performed well for me. Good against most targets. I find it particularly useful for killing dreadnoughts
I love this tank ! Does it look cool ? Yes ! Is it strong ? I don’t know, but it looks cool !
Valid!
Am gonna be honest I haven't seen a vehicle from 30k that I didn't like yet
Another great video
I agree that the vanilla Sicaran is rather bland at what it brings to the table. I love the model, though. It is so iconic in 30k. It does Rend and it does have a lot of shots, so it has that going for it.
Still a fan of the Arcus even in v2. Standard ammo and sponson las cannons, keep it hidden on the opening turn and it'll do some work against a lot of targets. I like it for removing elite infantry but as an Iron Warrior I can pop medium vehicles if nothing else is around.
Yep, I like it too. Just a bit overcosted, but not so much it isnt great.
Shame its funky missile abilities are paywalled :(
The Arcus is solid gold. Not as OP as say Lascannon heavy support squads or double Scorpius, but it's strong nonetheless.
Thank you!
I think the Predator Magna-Melta is a bit too efficient, pushing other vehicles out because of it.
I’d say the predator magna melta is fine, the pred itself is a little expensive even, and everything else needs a buff!
I wanna like this tank more maybe the big ass gatling gun one would do it.
Also I never realized that there was a venerator. It doesnt show up on forgeworld, at least not in the US. It has a listing and a web page but doesnt appear through any of the filters (there are a few other FW products that won't show up like this either). And I always skipped over the sicarin pages in the book because I never thought about getting any. You are right though, centerline makes it a hard inclusion. Perhaps Death Guard could manage it, though those slots are highly contested for them (any legion really but them particularly).
*Venator (Hunter)
The Regular SBT is kind of Vanilla but that Venator is a Sexy Beast.
As a madman who wants to play an Iron Warriors Armored Spearhead, would you recommend a Sicaran as a Master of armor or should I stick with a Predator Chassis?
Either is fine Id say but a Sicaran as your boss and the rest preds sounds cool to me!
Hi there, love these revisions. Would like to confirm about the Accelerator cannons. When It says heavy 8, is that for one each ? Since there are two I was wondering if that made it 16 ?. Just like the sponson Gravis Lascannon says Heavy 2, so if we can shoot both sponsons that would make it Heavy 4. I ask because the Gravis Lascannon visually only has one gun on each side and its heavy 2. So if two Accelerators are on the tank, I speculate if the Heavy 8 is for one making it Heavy 16.
Its just one weapon unfortunately!
hot audio
Would you consider doing a video on the Scorpius?
Its coming!
Great news, thanks for the reply. I watch your show repeatedly. Your prospective really helps me plan & understand the game. Valuable content buddy.
Thank you sir!
Thoughts on the Sabre? I like that it's cheaper and in a different slot than most tanks.
Great little tank. Ok points cost, attractively empty slot. Looks amazing. Fits in places other tanks are too fat for.
@@Hearesy sabre video pls sir!
Comparing the standard sicaran to the predator with autocannon, I'm not sure its quite as inefficient as you say here (assuming the predator is in an ok place). With autocannon turret weapons and sponson las cannons a sicaran averages 2.12 HP of damage to AV14 and a predator does 1.19 HP to AV14. At 200pts the sicaran is doing 1.06HP of damage per 100pts and the predator at 140pts is doing 0.85HP per 100pts. So the sicaran is actually more efficient on a per point basis than the predator is. It still doesn't totally even out if you assume you're taking predators in squadrons of 2, so paying an average of 132pts instead of 140. There you get about 0.9HP per 100pts, still lower than the sicaran. 2 predators will give you slightly less than the damage output of 1 sicaran vs a landraider and will cost 65 points more. 2 predators definitely will eat more shots to kill than 1 sicaran though. And I agree that the autocannon should just be strength 8 too. Any of the big autocannons (on tanks and dreads) should be instant deathing marines IMO. Or at least they should have breaching 5+ in addition to rending 6+ so that they penetrate infantry armor a little bit better. Its weird having a big gun which can penetrate the armor of a landraider, supposedly a marvel of armored vehicle engineering, that bounces right off of a tactical marine half the time.
Your math is off on the Sicaran AC I think. Ifwe *only* factor raw HP damage vs AV14, the Sicaran autocannon has 2x the shots. Also, the Pred is 130 points, not 140.
The Pred AC averages 4*(2/3)*(1/6)=0.444 damage to AV14.
The Sicaran AC averages twice that, for 0.888
Two lascannons average 0.733 to AV14.
The Pred does 1.17 damage / 130 = 0.009 per point
The Sicaran does 1.62 damage / 200 = 0.008 per point
So it's over 10% less efficient on a *raw* points level vs AV14.
The Sicaran will average slightly more penetrating hits thanks to Exoshock and double shots, BUT this is incredibly swingy thanks to Exoshock's 6+
The Predator also has further advantage vs AV15, which is arguably a more important AV to compare against than 14. It still always glances, where 1/3 of the Sicaran shots fail.
TBH though, even though the Maths on the gun comes out in favour of the Predator in this situation, it isn't the whole picture. The main point of contention for why the Sicaran doesn't do so well is that the chassis are almost identical - even if we lived in a world where the Sicaran did have slightly higher damage/points efficiency, it would still be in a bad spot due to its cost vs survivability. AV13 is just squishy, and that's not a huge problem on a 130 point predator, but it is on a 200 point Sicaran that gets 33% more hp, that often is made irrelevent by a pen, for over 50% points uplift!
@@Hearesy youre right. I thought the sicaran was twin linked and it is apparently not. How absurd!
Twin linked and str 8 and then we’d have something!
Tanks got hit too hard this edition.
I think tanks would mostly feel fine, maybe a little on the expensive side, if dreads werent so good. I dont think theyre so far off.
Lascannons probably didnt need sunder though.
Yeah, HSS just do anti tank and anti infantry better for a lot less points. Not to mention they also get augury scanners and tanks don’t.
When you have things like deredeo with it's lascannons and missiles, it's pointless to bring arcus for AA, deredeo not only does it better, it can also more or less 1 shot almost any tank in the game if there is no AA target...and has all those survivability benefits dreadnoughts do.
By dreadnought benchmarks the same is true of most things and I could just stop making content :p
We limit dreadnoughts at our events and many casual games to 1/2 in 2k now, as do many others. Also, sometimes you just want to run something different! If you are playing competitively though, yes, dreads all the way of course.
@@Hearesy though I am happy that deredeo with lascannons went from turd to gold :D
"Promo sm"
Lovely video!! Solar auxilia videos soon?
On the list yep!