I have performed the flo procedure on all my woods.I lost my laser that I used in the past and wanted to check a friends driver.This a alternative, I clamped the driver shaft in my vise cautiously, cut a thin strip of white tape and put it at right angle to the face and in the center of the head.put my bright pen light to shine on the dot then did a few twangs of the shaft,this works, you can see right to left line or oscillation of tape line quite clearly. I call it poor boy puring.
Thanks for this. I am just about to build my new clubs glad I found this LOL. Knew of spine aligning but knew nothing of FLO ... I do now , thanks to you. Look bottom line anything Tom Wishon says is gold in my opinion the guy has forgotten more about golf clubs than I will ever know and I'm not USA based I'm Australian based and know of Tom he truly is International.
Glad you found the information helpful. I am a true believer in FLO'ing shafts. It makes a difference in equipment performance. Thanks for watching and for being a subscriber!
I agree completely about putting the softest bending axis of the shaft (the spine) in line with the target line when finding the FLO. Often/usually the FLO will be relatively close to the axis of the spine. There is another advantage in doing this. Having the softest flex axis near the target direction when assembling the club will mean the axis that bends much less will be perpendicular to the target line. That will mean the shaft bends down less and, therefore, the club head droops less at impact, making solid contact easier. I do one thing different than what you show. I use the actual club head jammed on to the shaft with a small piece of rubber band to hold it there. I FLO the shaft that way since it duplicates the center of gravity of the head being away from the center of the shaft. Obviously I turn the head so it starts with the clubface facing the same direction as the mark on the tape and I keep adjusting the head position slightly when turning the shaft in the vise until the shaft oscillates in a straight line. The club face needs to keep being adjusted to face perpendicular to the line of twang. Once I find the FLO axis I mark the tape with a different color line, but on the FLO axis (9 o'clock). When assimbling the club I put the second color line facing the target which is the straight line FLO axis. It is just a different way to get to the same result.
is the only way to do this yourself or are there businesses that provide the service? ty for your comment, it seems most logical to "FLO" the shaft with the head on it since at the end of the day that's how you are gonna hit it. Additionally, i feel as if different heads have different weights and center of gravity which might affect the perfect shaft allignment.
so to make sure i followed this correctly, after flo'ing the shaft then allign the 12 o'clock flo mark with the club face? or how do you know where to align that mark with? i had assumed the club head would have a mark to align to, but that is not the case of my club heads at least, so the 12 o'clock of a driver head vs a 60* changes wouldn't it?
Great channel!!! I would be interested to see if the shaft flos a tiny bit differently with the head dry fitted on to it than with just the laser weight. Since the weight of a clubhead is not centered around the shaft but on the side of it.
Thanks for watching and glad you're enjoying the content! The laser is actually on the high side of the shaft during the FLO process. Therefore, it is similar to the weighting of a club head. Some individuals actually use a dry fit club head to FLO the shaft.
Very interesting video and impressive shop. One item which was not addressed was if shaft spine has any correlation to FLO result. Since FLO is the goal, why bother with finding the spine (other than maybe giving you a good place to start with FLO process) since the shaft needs to be installed at 12 o'clock after FLO completed anyway?
Hello Chris, I get this question a ton so you are not alone. The ONLY reason I did the spine marking was to show in the video the difference between a FLO'd alignment and a Spine alignment which rarely correlate. Apparently, I did not do a good enough job explaining that point in the video, but I'm always happy to answer the question. ua-cam.com/video/PrVkh1dig9o/v-deo.html
In the end of this video, you mention that it comes down to the matter of millimeters when the club head comes into impact with the golf ball when making sure the FLO is in the proper position. There is such a small gap when it comes to the consistency. As far as the installation of the club head in the 12:00 position, is there a certain forgiveness when this takes place? I feel as if this has a certain importance as well and I am just wanting to make sure the golf head is as center as possible when going into the shaft for installation. This is a case for a club (without) an adapter, just shaft to driver head. Wondering if there is anything other than just eyeballing this step for a better accuracy. Any feedback on this would be most helpful. Thank you and thanks for all the videos, they are all great in the info they provide!
I have used a laser down the shaft previously in order to mark the insertion point on the club. I would recommend this to you. This can produce very accurate results. If you FLO enough shafts, you will get accustomed to using your eyes to line up the shaft.
I'm a true believer in the theory. It is an important step to ensure your equipment will perform at its maximum potential. Thanks for watching and subscribing!
Thanks for the info. Nice, thorough explanation. So, looking at the movement of the laser oscillating after you "twang" the shaft, it seems to take a half dozen oscillations before they begin to get wonky. Makes me wonder if it makes any positive difference. One thing for sure, however, it definitely can't hurt. As little time as it takes to find that ideal plane, I'm all for it regardless.
I agree 100%, I started flowing my DCB's and only 2 out of 6 were where the Osculation had a flat line. The Epic Max (brand new) was the worst and by rotating it I was able to reduce it to a small oval but the adjustable hosel is a joke.
You explained this process perfectly. I have been floing shafts forever. Whenever I try to explain to a customer why and how it's done they look at me like I'm crazy. I will send them your link from now on! And hell yeah. It does make a huge difference. I love to experiment and have way too much time on my hands to do so. Since I started floing my own shafts, dispersion is RIDICULOUSLY tight! If I'm having a "good golf day", I can land my 8 Iron shots in a hula hoop! Do you find it a little more challenging to find the Flo as the shafts get shorter? For example, steel shafts for 8 or 9 through to the wedges? I eventually find it, but it takes a bit.
I completely agree with you and glad to find another person who is as passionate about FLO'ing shafts as I am! To prove the point, I have two identical 6 irons, one is FLO'd and one is not; I get an individual to hit both and ask which one they prefer (I do not tell them which one is FLO'd prior to hitting the irons). Without fail, it is always the FLO'd iron. I cannot say that shorter shafts cause me an issue more than longer shafts, but honestly I've never really paid much attention to it either. I do note that better quality shafts are MUCH easier to find the FLO. Glad the video helped and thanks for the promotion.
@@XJSimulations To add one more apple to the ox cart... I Flo with the Golf Mechanix chucked tip weight and Flo tracer with the adjustable weighting along with the shaft rotation dial indicator. I also start with the spine alignment mark. Very rarely does it line up with with Flo, but when it does I consider this the holy grail of shafts! To get back on topic, when I find Flo, I re adjust my dial indicator to 0°. Then I rotate the shaft 180°, and it should Flo exactly the same. I then note the height of the laser point. In most cases with steel shafts, there is a high side and low side. I use the highest point where the laser flo's at 12:00, as this point is a bit stiffer to help compensate for shaft droop. Just one of my little secrets, as Viagra will not help with this particular type of shaft droop.
@@mikereling6045 great points which I considered going into detail about in the video, but it seemed to be a bit too much information. Hopefully, those more interested will read your comment.
You should close the clubface to promote a draw. However, you will still need to have a correct swing path for it to be effective; alone it will not correct a slice.
I find the way you FLO a shaft interesting. It is the same way I do it. I put the mark 90 degrees different that you do (on the FLO axis) so it is in line with the target line when the club is assembled, but the resulting shaft position in the assembled club is the same. I have never understood why some people assemble the club with the FLO line perpendicular to the target line. It seems that would make the shaft droop more, be less consistent in behavior, and increase the difficulty in hitting the ball in the center of the face.
Either way will work as long as the person understands the FLO should be parallel to the swing place/path. I guess the marking is only a preference. I am not sure why someone would place the FLO shaft in the position you referred too. Odd.
That’s odd as I’ve never heard that mentioned. I have a set of shaft clamps I purchased years ago; one is standard oval and one is a diamond clamp. Either of those work well. You may want to look for clamp options at GolfWorks or Golf Mechanix
Thanks for the education, however I want to clarify this with a adjustable driver, the instant you change the setting on the driver the oscillation plane will change. How do we take this into account while re-shafting a adjustable driver.
I've answered this question many times before and the answer is you cannot. Set the FLO'd position for the most used degree/loft setting the individual prefers. That is the best you can hope for.
That is true with all brands except Callaway. The Callaway adjustable tip is ingenious because it allows the shaft orientation to stay the same without regard to the tip setting adjustments. (I use Callaway woods.)
Nice vid GI. Have been using a variation of this process that I call 'the twang test'. What we are finding is the axis upon which the shaft wants to flex. I use a rubber shaft clamp in a vice and twang the butt end. The axis is the same whichever end the shaft is viewed from. A 'twang ' on any angle across the shaft will find the path of least resistance as the oscillations settle out, then all that's left is to find the top (or bottom). How do we come up with a test to measure the effect of Chubby Checkers (torque) on this axis.As I understand, manufacturers still have no uniform method of torque measurement. Thanks again
torque is measured in "foot pounds". the butt is clamped in a vise. then a 12" long "arm" is clamped to the tip and a gauge on the arm is set to 0° on its scale. a one pound weight is hung from the end of the arm causing the shaft to twist under this load. the scale will indicate how many degrees the shaft twisted under load(thus "foot pounds". generally speaking slower swingspeeds can handle higher ( >3.5°) torque while faster speeds generally indicate lower (
I used your method and found the high spine just like you show here, worked great and can definitely feel it. The follow the remaining step just as you describe here. I did it on a "Pured" shaft that has the factory sticker just to check and see if my method actually worked along with what they had gotten from this specific shaft before I went on to do it on my newer shaft. The interesting thing is the pure sticker when following your method appears DIRECTLY on the bottom on the opposite side, I mean exactly opposite at the 6 o'clock position. Can you let me know what you think about this. I know sometimes shafts have two spines as you mention, but definitely felt the "high spine as you mention... any thoughts. Thanks and really great videos, really helping me out.
When a shaft is FLO'd it can have two positions on the shaft directly opposite of the other. Unless you have expensive equipment (PURed), you cannot tell exactly which of those positions would be "best" for the shaft. Please remember though, it is not the spine of the shaft you want to identify, but the FLO position of the shaft. In the video, I used the spine method to demonstrate the difference between the two positions on the shaft. Apparently, I did a poor job explaining why in the video as this point has been missed many times and answered many times below in the comments :)
Thanks for the answer, pretty much what I assumed but was curious... And also, not at all, I completely understood by your video that finding the spine was just a starting point to help you get closer to Flo'ing the shaft, made perfect sense to me. Yeah I figured that after I Flo'ed the shaft that it was probably something like that with the "PURED" line being that it was exactly at 6 o'clock as mentioned... but obviously the method worked pretty darn well if I came up with an exact posit side of the PURED results... thanks again
I spline the shaft in the 2 bushings on a vertical plane, straight up and down. Then I put the clubhead on the shaft without epoxy. Then I stress the shaft and align the face of the club so that it is facing at a 90 degree angle from where the spline is. Then mark the shaft and the hosel so that I can remove the bushings, then reattach the club head with epoxy. When I stress the shaft during the golf swing the same as I stressed it with the bushings the shaft will want to square up the club face the same as it did in the bushings. This method would seem to best simulate the actual stresses generated in the golf swing.
Assuming that the "spine line" and the "FLO line" of a shaft are not the same, why bother finding the spine? If building a club so that the "FLO line" is properly located is most critical/ beneficial to club performance - and it doesn't coincide with the "spine line" - finding the spine location seems to be irrelevant. Correct, or am I missing something? Thanks for your excellent video!
I get this question often. You do NOT have to spine align the shaft in order to find the FLO. The video was done to show people the difference between a SPINE aligned shaft and a FLO'd shaft. More importantly, the fact that the two rarely are in the same position on the shaft. There is still confusion out there about the two methods or thinking the two methods are one in the same. I've had this question before regarding "why" do it this way; again, the reason was to show the difference of the actual FLO position of the shaft. Glad you are enjoying the video!
It only matters if the shaft shows only 1 spine. I guess you could choose which side you wanted the spine on. For example; 10 o'clock position versus 4 o'clock position. If the spine runs straight through (2 spines) then it really doesn't matter.
I was also confused by the need to find spline. After finding the spine, he said "next step" is to find FLO. I took this to mean the spline location had some relevance to FLO. I'm getting back into club making and plan to just focus on the FLO. I trust the flow line as more important to performance than where I feel the spine.
Thanks for watching. I have answered this question a few times. The only reason was to show the different results between the two methods. Spine alignment or spinning a shaft is not the correct way to locate the FLO of a shaft.
OK, got one more question. Doing my new shaft now from scratch now that I've proved with a PURED shaft that I can do it properly. Finding the spine before I FLO it, it has two very noticeable spines, when you say the find the strongest point, do you mean the biggest or tallest spine between the two or the one that gives you the most resistance of flex in the shaft? Because one is noticeably taller, but the other one seems to give more shaft resistance, so which would you mark as you spine? Thanks again, these videos of yours are really awesome and have taught me a lot.
Either one will work as a starting point simply because it does not matter in the end. However if you can feel the difference between the two spines, i.e. the flex of a particular point in the shaft, use that feel to determine the best FLO position on the shaft (previous discussion below). One position will have a bit more flex than the other 180 degrees opposite. As such, typically that will be the position that can deliver more distance.
What a great video! Thank you for taking the time to make all of your videos your channel sure has helped me a ton. I do have a dumb question! Why even spine the shaft of your going to flo it and it's in a different spot all together. When I first learned that you spine and flo a shaft and they are at different areas of the shaft my question was so which one do you use for alignment. Just not understanding why you spine if your going to flow and use that anyway. Thank you for all your help have a wonderful weekend.
I'm glad you are enjoying the videos. Not a dumb question at all. You do NOT have to spine align the shaft in order to find the FLO. The video was done to show people the difference between a SPINE aligned shaft and a FLO'd shaft. More importantly, the fact that the two rarely are in the same position on the shaft. There is still confusion out there about the two methods or thinking the two methods are one in the same. I've had this question before regarding "why" do it this way; again, the reason was to show the difference of the actual FLO position of the shaft.
@@XJSimulations Supposedly the spine finder finds the very slight pre-existing bend in the shaft, not necessarily the axis on which it bends the easiest (or the most).
Some would argue the bearing based "spine finder" is not finding a spine, but how the shaft is naturally not perfectly straight but has a slight curve in it , when not flexed. Nothing is manufactured perfectly straight. If a shaft was so unstraight it looked like a kitchen spatula, it would would always rotate to that same position in the bearing curve finder, every time. Yet what does that have to do with how the club actually oscillates when it bends? Not always much, as the shaft is often rotated away from the curve aligned spot to find a spine it will flo in. I prefer to flo the shaft vertical. I have a tip weight with a laser pointed rubber banded to it. I can leave it a tad loose and slightly shake the shaft to get the tip/laser center of gravity to fall straight down, and then tighten it. Then i know the tip weight and laser's center of gravity is straight in line with a straight vertical twang.
Well, no and yes. It is highly likely to lessen the hook or slice, but it is not likely correct it completely. One thing for certain, it will help to correct one, with practice over time, as it is more certain to deliver the clubhead on a particular swing plane. I have seen situations where a shaft is so off the FLO that it did correct the swing flaw, but this really depends. Typically, an easy way to identify that type situation; if you have one particular club that "feels right, can't miss with or is your go to club," it is likely that club's shaft just happens to be in or very close to the FLO position.
Thanks for watching. I'm not certain, I understand your question. If you are referring to shaft insertion into the iron after locating the FLO, I line up the iron head with a straight sharpie line on the top of the workbench and then ensure the shaft is inserted at the 12 o'clock position of the shaft. I mark the FLO position of the shaft with a piece of tape marked with a black sharpie line prior to removing the laser and shaft from the vice after locating the FLO. If that does not help to answer your question, please let me know.
This is a dumb follow up but I want to be clear....Is 12 o'clock in line with the leading sole of the club? Seems like FLO is the way to go vs spine align.
@@kylec4498 12 o'clock is towards the toe of the clubhead. 9 o'clock is towards the target when the clubhead is in the impact position. XJ moves the tape so the mark is at 12 o'clock, but when he does that the FLO axis (straight line oscillation) is at 9 o'clock (towards the target).
Does the position of a shaft that has been FLO'd vary when it is inserted into a left handed clubhead? Is it still inserted at the 12 o'clock position?
SST is a patented, technical, automated piece of equipment that determines the neutral axis for a shaft; It can be quite expensive for each shaft, let alone the entire bag. FLO'ing is also a process for finding the neutral axis for the shaft. Just understand it is two separate processes that are looking for the same conclusion. Thanks for watching and be sure to subscribe.
Thanks for the response. Subscribed! I was also wondering do you need to do it on a raw uncut shaft first, or do you tip it first then FLO, or butt cutt then FLO.
i have an aldila rip phenom tour x 70 with a line on the but end. it seems safe to say that this is the spine. no? it happens to be label up. additionally i have some new project x flighted 6.5 my clubmaker down the street said that the have a spine label down. the fellow at true temper that i spoke to said they don;t have spines? i am confused. also do you see regularities as far as label orientation goes and flow. i dont have a vice to check for myself and am doing it on the cheap. i appreciate your service and any reply.
Unfortunately, that may or may not be the case. A line on the shaft (butt end) could be simply for alignment purposes during install to ensure the label is centered. There is simply no way to know for certain without additional information. The shafts must be checked in order to determine the FLO. As I mentioned in the video, labels do NOT indicate FLO alignment of the shaft. Thanks for watching.
So it's all about FLO...it has nothing to do with finding the spine. You orient the shaft into the club based on the FLO results. Finding the spine is just a waste of time?
When talking about FLO and Spine, we need to be discussing Natural Bend Plane. It’s the most important vocab word here, and I didn’t hear it once. Are you placing the spine generally in the 12 or 6 position? 6 being ideal imo. And then placing the FLO’d NBP in the 9 position (9 to 3)?
It can be done at any time and does not matter if it is pre or post shaft trimming. You should get the same result in regard to the FLO of the shaft. Thanks for watching!
@@XJSimulations, I just tried FLO-ing a Dynamic Gold Stiff Shaft with a drill chuck & laser and the response I get is a flat line regardless of the shaft orientation. Now, the initial path may be elliptical at the start, which probably is due to me, but shortly after becomes a flat line. Question, is FLO-ing required when using a good quality stiff shaft? Thank you.
Except for the putter, I highly recommend FLO'ing all shafts. The stiffness or quality will not dictate anything about the FLO of a shaft. It can, and likely will, vary from shaft to shaft. If you can get a straight line reading 50% or more of the time when you are FLO'ing, you've likely found the proper position. I completely understand the self-inflicted "flick" problem, but if it is a straight path 3 of 6, 4 of 8, etc., it is in the right position. Some shafts can have very slight changes and some will have very wild patterns. The more you work at it, the more comfortable you will become in determining if the shaft is producing a FLO'd pattern.
Great Vid,I really have got to understand the point of this.Other channels have some negative comments,probably because they are not explained so well.If people think that this is not nesessary,then that’s their viewpoint.But with the price of Golf clubs these days,this should be part of the build.I don’t know if all manufacturers go into this detail when assembling their clubs,But! they should.Even if this makes only the slightest difference to an average golfer,then it is needed.
Thanks for the comments. It would be nice if all shafts had the FLO position marked, but due to the time and extra cost, we will have to pay for that additional cost. Very well worth it IMO and all of the customers I've had in the past.
If manufascturers did this only the best shafts would have the labels all pointed in the same direction. People would think it was weird for the labels to not be aligned. A few expensive shafts are tested before putting the label on so they are aligned, but not many.
question regarding the Flo... Once I have found the Flo line, normally we would install this line on "top" of the golf shaft, as if we were looking down that line, and the club head faced 90 degrees, will the "flowing" on the shaft still work if you put the flo line on the bottom side of the shaft? (think of installing the new mcc align grip, where the flow line would run down the top side of the grip, and I am asking, if the flowing would still work if we ran the flow line down the back side of the shaft, where the "align rib" would be on the new grip..)
If you think of looking down at the shaft toward the club head as a clock face, the 12 o'clock position is the proper position for a FLO'd shaft. In some cases, there will be another FLO position directly opposite of the FLO position on the shaft. However, you need to check. If the shaft has a duel opposite FLO position, one of the positions will be stronger than the other. It may work, but you need to check the opposite position to be certain.
Golfing Idiots I'll have to double check as I did find two FLO positions as I was working on my driver. the reason I asked pertains more to the fact that the driver has an adjustable tip and there is an arrow on the bottom side of the driver, indicating which line you are on. I would be curious to see a video on this, specific to adjustable tip drivers
Regarding the two FLO positions, it is not uncommon on a shaft. Usually better shafts. Typically, one of the FLO positions will produce a slightly longer distance and the other a tighter dispersion. In regard to adjustable drivers, I get this question often. What you need to remember is an adjustable driver's function, by design, is to allow a player to dial in their best loft and lie out of the box or OTS rather than having to wait for a custom fit club to arrive two weeks later. Once you dial in your best settings on the driving range, you should really not be adjusting the numbers. Therefore, once your driver is set in the preferred position you can FLO the shaft.
@@amidgetonamoped8637 If you want to keep the shaft in the correct position, but adjust a tip you will have to remove the tip and re-orient (re-epoxy) it. Usually installing the tip in a clubhead first makes re-installation easier. This doesn't apply with Callaway tips. They can keep the shaft in the same position in relation to the clubface regardless of the tip settings. You have to make sure you put it back together with the new tip settings with the shaft in the same orientation as before, assuming it was correct. It is possible to put the clubhead back in with the shaft in any position on a Callaway if you are not paying attention.
Hi XJ Thank you for this very interesting video You are using a laser moving in a horizontal plane to find the FLO.But once you found it - Is the mark you make with your pen on the top of the shaft , say 12 oclock or at 9 oclock , assuming the target is at 9 oclock (R handed golfer) ? - If using a vertical motion of the laser, would you mark the FLO on the shaft at 9 oclock ? - Would you still mount the club head at 12 oclock , refering to that mark ? - Is it possible to mount the club head taking the 6 oclock position , as it is on the same plane ? - If yes, which position should be chosen ? Does the distance to the spine position matters, like the closer the better ? Best regards
Regardless of if you find the FLO of the shaft (horizontal or vertical), always remember that is the plane the shaft needs to travel in during the swing. Technically, you can place the club in either direction of that plane, but I did not want to confuse the issue anymore.
Good question. No, it is not necessary to locate the spine, but I wanted to show the difference between the two methods. A lot of people confuse spine alignment and FLO as one in the same. Obviously, they're very different when it comes to results. Thanks for watching.
Thanks, I'm glad I got it right. Great video about the shaft stiffness impact based on your swing speed btw. I liked that the data was collected right on the field
Fully aware and this is asked often. The reason, as stated in the video, was to show the difference between the two methods as there is confusion that they are the same. In the latter part of the video, I show the line of the spine aligned shaft as opposed to the FLO'd line.
Thanks for watching and sorry for the delayed response as I am deployed currently. This simple answer is saved time finding the FLO of the shaft. You do not have to do the step, but I have found it speeds up the process. Thanks for watching and be sure to subscribe.
Great video. I understand the benefit of flo for graphite shafts, would you use the same process to flo steel shafts. Again great video, look forward to your response.
With adjustable hosels on drivers, doesn't the Flo point change in the shaft when you start changing the adjustable hosel for more loft, draw or fade? Thanks,
The point of an adjustable driver is to allow someone to "custom fit" the driver without the need of a set-up from the producer. If you are a player who constantly changes settings, FLO will not work for you or FLO to the position you use most often. Think about it for a second, do you constantly bend loft and lie on your irons?
I enjoyed your vid - thanks for making. Question: Why do you show how to spine align? Are you just explaining the difference between that and FLOing? It seems to me if I wanted to FLO my own clubs I would just attach the laser (or chuck) and get to it. The position of the spine seems irrelevant at that point or am I missing something? I'm just making sure it is not *necessary* to find the spine before FLOing the club. Thanks again.
+majorwhiz Finding the spine "usually" makes a faster determination of the FLO as a reference point. It is not required in order to find the FLO of the shaft, just a little something that will make the process a bit faster. Thanks for watching and sorry for the delayed response as I am deployed currently.
Is it possible that a shaft has no detectable spine and flo's in all orientations? I have a set of Veylix Alpina and tried spining and floing but i swear it flat lines in all different ways.
I have seen this to a certain extent in a few shafts, but it is quite rare. There should be some minor spine and a "best" FLO position in the shaft. If not, count yourself lucky and enjoy the shafts! Is it with all of the shafts or just a few in the set? Thanks for watching and for your question.
I have been informed that it is illegal to set-up a shaft in such a manner. However, I am not convinced. It will really depend on your swing path and club face angle, but you may be able to influence the shaft direction via FLO. If you use my method of 12 o'clock placement and you are a right handed player, you would need to set the shaft in the hosel at the 1 or 2 o'clock position. I have never tried it. Good luck.
Thank you for the reply, another question not related to flo, what are the rectangle color markings on a raw graphite golf shaft signify? Thank You, Ray.
UPDATE on INFLUENCE of FLO on DRAW, I usually hit off center 5-20 yards right with my driver flo'd properly, I pulled the shaft, rechecked spine and Flo, positioned the Flo at the 1 oclock position for a RH Player, and it Does Work, I Hit 30 Balls and everyone of them were either Straight, 2-3 yds right or Very minimal Left for Me!
@@raytollefson6622 yes you can definitely cause your shots to consistently,fade or draw,i have. several shafts that I clocked the adapters to do just that,I tricked a friend that draws the ball by giving him my m2 with a fade bias adapter ,he hit 12 balls in a row with a fade and he just kept shaking his head.
@@rickgray2465 Not if you have the ability to remove the tip and re-orient it, or if you have a Callaway wood which allows any tip settings with the shaft in any position.
when setting the club head for an iron, i lean the shaft forward and then square the clubface, when i rebuild my club, what is the "12 o clock position" in relation to the club face, when you account for a clubface/hossel that is set up with forward shaft lean?
When you are looking down at the club face it should be square to the target line; the FLO position is inline with the grooves of the club head in the 12 o'clock position. It will become easier to find the more you try it.
Golfing Idiots against my "better" judgement. I went with this approach as you mentioned I got the feeling that I should try it this way and see how my ball striking improves with a flowed shaft before potentially screwing things up even worse. lol. I'll get to test it tomorrow. I had to rebuild my 9 iron and decided to do driver too while I was at it. I'm extremely anxious to see the results as I just know this is going to improve my game. thanks for the great videos! I will report findings
It definitely tightened my dispersion. by like 15-20 yards for my slice. I used to hit out 175 and right 40-60 yds. (seriously)- if I could get a straight shot, i could roll it out to 280ish (293 once.. lucky bounce). After flowing my driver i'm carrying over 225 when i hit them straight, but my slices dont go over into the next fareway anymore. I'm now doing this on all of my other clubs, however i seem to be finding it hard to get a FLO line on the graphite shafts. (i have a REALLY cheap set made by powerbilt). The irons are fine and i find with ease, but the graphite shafts for the hybrids and woods just dont seem to have that perfectly flat point (it gets close, but there is either a slight slope to it, or it still "loops" towards the end of the oscilation cycle. anyway, I turn 31 today and we are supposed to play sunday afternoon to celebrate, so i need to get my clubs back together... lol better get on that.
Awesome and glad to hear about your progress. Hopefully, other people will see your response and improved results. Some cheaper graphite shafts can be difficult to FLO. Take your time. Ultimately, you may have to choose what the "best" option is for the shaft to be close to FLO. Good luck!
I mounted a laser. on the club face of my burner driver,then mounted the shaft in my vise with the grip on. The shaft had been filled and marked,dry mounted head with laser and checked oscillation,would not flat line with 12 o clock position but it was fairly close approx 10 degrees off,glued the head on re checked ok but added a little lead tape to the head and no longer flat lined,so weighing the head is problematic and I think you should load the shaft the same amount every time you test and that should be somewhere near the actual bend when in use or at impact.I think with a little practice I could make a driver produce a cut or hook by adjusting the head to spine at different angles.
@@nunyabidnez2708 you would be 100% correct if we used a driver without a grip,I am trying to replicate the flex rebound as it occurs in actual play.All I can say my method works in play situations and I have many satisfied customers.
i get what you're saying. in physics EVERYTHING matters. there is a difference between the amount of force applied to the gripped club in the vice vs your hands so even THAT can skew the results but i like the way you're thinking of it.
I never heard of FLO before! Great video with some serious interesting info here. Makes me wonder if my Taylormade R15 has a proper FLO for the standard hosel position. You got my sub. You seem to be pretty smart when it comes to club repair. Any info on how I can fix the nasty sky mark scratches on my black 460cc R15 driver?
Easiest way to fix those "sky marks" is rubbing compound that would be used on autos. Use a damp cloth and a back and forth motion to remove the marks. Be sure to use wax to bring the luster back to the area after that. Thanks for watching and be sure to subscribe!
Wouldn't it make more sense to flo the club with the club head installed? I would think the club head mass affects the harmonics because the head and the shaft have to work as a unit and each has its own harmonic.
Here's what Wishon says in response to that question: "Today, many shaft makers pre-test their shafts to locate a consistent plane of bending in the shaft, and only then paint and apply the name/logo to the shafts. Thus, with the vast majority of quality shafts made today, there is little need to have the shafts checked for spine location and re-installed in the clubheads."
I'm not sure I believe that. Unless you are referring to the demo clubs the companies send out to the field. Surprisingly, most of those shafts are in the FLO position... curious.
I tested this. and the results are different. 1. I took just the laser 2. the laser on the clubhead 3. a 300gramm weight as you mentioned your laser is 200g. my clubheads are 274g Any ideas or comments?
Absolutely not. I wanted to show the difference between the FLO line and the Spine line of a shaft as they are usually not one in the same. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for watching and sorry for the delayed response as I am deployed currently. Absolutely. The same benefits will be received with your irons. The only club in your bag that does not need to be FLO'd would be your putter. Other than that, I recommend completing the set for FLO'd shafts. Thanks for watching and be sure to subscribe.
It was interesting that the laser maintained the straight line despite it going from left to right. I thought gravity would eventually make it so that the laser line was curved, but it stayed straight.
I'm very much a beginner at golf, and made the mistake of reading Tom Wishon's books ;-) This is a DIY project? Take the club head off, find the FLO position, and glue it back on? I have three Adams hybrids, and 6-P irons. The others were done by the club builder (Wishon dealer), but he recommended against me paying him to work much on old hybrids. He set the swing weights, but that's all. I'm re-gripping them.
@@XJSimulations I guess it's a DIY thing; I'll make a shaft puller and try it on old clubs before I move on to the hybrids. I figure a long bolt, a couple big washers, a short piece of pipe, and a couple old valve springs should have it. I have a laser pointer somewhere. Rubber v-block for the vice...
A decade back i imported a set a shafts for my iron heads for replacements as a cple of them had broken down and the grips worn out. Thr american who sent me said that he is sending me spine aligned and pured iron shafts and just ask the local clubfitter to fit them accordingly ! The clubs performed awesome and were consistent . Recently i had to get my m1 adaptor ferrule redone on a shaft which i paid a handsome amount to the dealer . The ferrule and adaptor were getting seperated bcos of impact ! I requested the local certified clubfitter that he should check the spine and set the shaft correctly . What he did was set the neutral setting to upright wherby changing the alignment and original setting . The sad part is as a professional fitter he said the spining didnt matter . I was taken back . What a loss i had . And i found the not so good setting on the lower loft of course not to my liking. I think professionalism needs a new definition. Your vdo is a class apart it explains how seriously club fitting is taken and really helps the player achieve the goals. Thanks for reading this .
Sorry about your poor experience. Keep in mind spine alignment and FLO are completely different. FLO is along the lines of the PURING process (trademark protected). FLO is what will make a huge difference throughout all your clubs in the bag.
Wouldn't you want to put the shaft into the head with the line on the face side or target side? When you swing the club doesn't it torque this way and kick into the ball. I dont understand why you would want to put the flo on the 12 oclock to the head.
I'm sure you are inundated with questions, and I'm sure you've answered this before, but I wonder about this. Some guys say to spine first to get close....which makes sense. I see how that might save time. Do you have to twang the club either in the 12/6 plane or the 9/3 plane to get accurate reading? Or can you get accurate readings if you twang in any plane? It's just that people act as if you've got to rotate the shaft in the vice between twangs rather than just leaving it in the vice and rotate the twang plane to get a quicker approximation? I hope what I'm trying to ask makes sense to someone. 🤪
Common question; you can find the FLO in either position. HOWEVER, ensure you make the proper adjustment when you place the shaft in the club. Remember, the FLO plane needs to follow toward the downrange target.
I like this presentation but like many others there is no full explanation of the proper view orientation when setting spine/flo in clubhead. Looking down the shaft to the clubhead, 9 o'clock is the correct spot for the flo line for a right handed golfer, but looking from the head towards the grip end puts it at 3 o'clock as you mention. There are reverse placement for lefties as well. I prefer looking down the shaft with 12 o'clock on top, making it 9 for RH Golfer and 3 for LH.
I explained it the best I could in order to assist other people. In your response, you use the term "FLO line" with clock positions which is confusing without the understanding of where the FLO line was marked on the shaft. So if you mark the FLO line of the shaft different from how I explained in the video (i.e. up and down FLO line in the vice as opposed to left and right FLO line in the vice), it will change the shaft insertion to club head to clock position to target position, etc..
Great Vid.... my question is... Current off the shelf drivers come with many settings, Lie, Angle, closed, open etc... so FLO'ing the shaft for these drivers... is it useless?
Great question and the answer is, it depends. If you change the settings often, then FLO'ing the shaft will not be much benefit. If there is one position that you prefer over others, FLO the shaft to that position. Keep in mind, adjustable drivers are really designed for custom fitting for an individual's swing. In theory, you should dial in your setting at the range (or on the course) for your swing and leave it alone which would allow for a FLO'd shaft. Thanks for watching and please subscribe.
Im not bagging flo-ing of golf clubs but from my personal experience with my own clubs I found no difference in distance, feel felt stiffer because I orientated the strongest bend profile toward the target (9 o'clock for Right handers target on left, then fine tuned flo with head on), and consistency was about the same (I didn't miraculously drop 10 shots off my handicap afterwards). I have done both Steel shafted Irons and Graphite shafted fairways and found the same results. In fact the set of clubs I'm using now is untouched (no Flo) and my handicap is the lowest and most consistent its been. Each to their own I Guess.
The FLO axis (straight line oscillation) should be in line with the target line when the club is assembled. Sounds like you were 90 degrees different than that (if I understood you correctly).
@@bobpegram8042 Yes, perfect Flo was aimed at the target not up and down at 12 o'clock. Like I said I don't believe it miraculously changed the club. I could get one of my clubs redone professionally and I believe It would not make any difference.
Very well made video on a interesting topic. My concern with F.L.O. an adjustable driver shaft is that if you change the hossel location the F.L.O. location will no longer be correct? (I assume) with this in mind I would need to get happy with the hossel location prior t FLOing the shaft Yes/No? Thanks great video deliver for sure.
Great question and the answer is, it depends. If you change the settings often, then FLO'ing the shaft will not be much benefit. If there is one position that you prefer over others, FLO the shaft to that position. Keep in mind, adjustable drivers are really designed for custom fitting for an individual's swing. In theory, you should dial in your setting at the range (or on the course) for your swing and leave it alone which would allow for a FLO'd shaft. Thanks for watching.
The purpose of an adjustable driver is to be able to fit the club to your swing without the need of a custom order. Once you have fit the driver to your swing, you can then FLO the shaft for optimal performance. However if you are a constant "tinker" of the adjustable driver, FLO'ing the shaft will not really be a benefit.
I get this question often. You do NOT have to spine align the shaft in order to find the FLO. The video was done to show people the difference between a SPINE aligned shaft and a FLO'd shaft. More importantly, the fact that the two rarely are in the same position on the shaft. There is still confusion out there about the two methods or thinking the two methods are one in the same. I've had this question before regarding "why" do it this way; again, the reason was to show the difference of the actual FLO position of the shaft. Glad you are enjoying the video!
It's still confusing as to what position you actually put the FLO plane. In your video you flex the shaft horizontally and get FLO on that plane, which would be the 9 and 3 o'clock plane. That seems to be the plane you want the club to be moving/flexing on as your club approaches the ball and through impact. But, your video seems to be saying to put the FLO plane on the 12 to 6 o'clock plane-- but that's not the plane the shaft is flexing as it approaches impact--it's 90 deg. different. ----or were you saying that you would take the shaft you had in the vice, which was moving side-to-side (9 to 3), and THEN while it is in that orientation, mark the top of the shaft (12 o'clock pos.) and insert it into the clubhead in that same orientation, so that the FLO was still in the 9 to 3 plane. Please clarify.
^this.. i flo’d my clubs by twanging up and down.. marked the top of the shaft 12 o’clock thinking that’s the flo line.. is this not the case.. should I have actually marked it on the side of my shaft at the 3-9 and then installed that line at 12:00?
Hi Michael. The flat line (9-3) in this video needs to be aligned towards the target. Marking at 12 oclock is just for ease of assembly, as its easier to look down the length of the shaft to get the head pointed at the target.
Thanks for the clarification. The next issue however, is that some clubfitters then orient the flat line plane PERPENDICULAR to the target line. Why they would do that I don't know, but they do.
There are a few ways to mark the shaft based off the FLO. It does not matter if you find the FLO up and down or left to right. What DOES matter is how the shaft is inserted into the clubhead. You want the FLO to happen through impact. Imagine a clubhead on the shaft as it is moving through impact to determine where you should insert the shaft during assembly. The more you do it, the more it will make sense in what it is you want to accomplish.
Basically, yes. The spine and FLO will not always be one in the same. It can be at times, but the FLO is not always related to the spine. Thanks for watching.
i truly believe f.l.o ing of the shafts is better than not doing so. as you can see from the laser... I'd rather a flat line than a circular pattern. currently I'm gluing back together my irons after doing this. soon I'll check my off the shelf driver. then i feel like i can never have any doubt about the equipment i use.
Ian, I completely agree with you. There is no question about the benefits of FLO'ing shafts throughout the bag. If more people would invest in the practice, they would see the immediate benefit in their play. It is a simple, relatively quick service, that pays huge dividends.
Yes I understand that and I have spine finder that I made long ago but I see no benefit in that because the flo seems to be more important and then you have to question adjustable heads for the shaft spine might go anywhere and the flo as well.
@@termides Often the FLO axis is similar to the spine axis, not exactly the same, but similar enough to be a good starting point when finding the FLO axis.
Why not skip the splining process and just FLO the shaft? Make a device that locks up the butt end, but allows rotation, through indents, as it is rotated. The degrees would be marked on the device, and each click is perhaps 2 degree. Rotate through 360 degrees, until the best straight line profile appears, and mark it on the shaft.
hanks for watching. I have answered this question a few times. The only reason was to show the different results between the two methods. Spine alignment or spinning a shaft is not the correct way to locate the FLO of a shaft.
I get this question a TON. The reason was only to show the difference between a spine aligned shaft and a FLO'd shaft. Some individuals think those are one in the same.
@@XJSimulations So if I don't care how it was originally aligned, I can probably skip it. Great video - very educational, and you just sent Golf Mechanix a new customer.
What happens to the balance of it when you then put a club head on it? Is it still in flow? Doubt it. Why not try it when the club head is on? I don’t see any science here.
I like the video and agree with most things you say in it. However, I believe that there are 2 minor faults in your video, viz. 1. You initially set the spine to the 3 O'clock position (towards the target) and said that you were going to FLO the shaft for a right handed golfer, BUT you flexed the shaft away from the target as though for a left handed player. Wouldn't that be giving you an incorrect FLO result for a right handed golfer? 2. You stated that you could FLO a shaft by flexing up and down OR side ways. You omitted one very important aspect with that. The direction you flex the shaft should be entirely dependent on the vice being used. If the vice is the same as the one in the video, then sideways flexing will give the most accurate result. You should only flex up and down if the vice grips are top & bottom, not side by side. In other words the flexing needs to be against the resistance of the vice otherwise a false result will ensue. Sorry to be nit picky, but I believe you should have clarified point 2 in the video, and been aware that you actually flexed for a lefty even though you set the spine alignment position for a righty.
First, where the spine does not typically correlate to the FLO of a shaft. I showed that in the video to demonstrate that difference between the two techniques and the how spine alignment or spinning a shaft will not find always find the FLO of the shaft. Second once the shaft is in the FLO position, you can flex the shaft in either direction and it will maintain the FLO. There is not a difference for a lefty or a righty for FLO. If you want to get picky about the matter, the FLO position actually offers two options when placing it in the shaft depending on if you want less dispersion or more distance... but this video was not designed to teach all the aspects of potential options for FLO with limited equipment and techniques.
have to disagree with you about the direction you flex the shaft to find the FLO. I had my woods and a new set of irons FLO'd last month by a person who has been a club fitter for 50 years, and works with pro golfers and he agreed with my opinion. Out of curiosity we set the spine at 3 O'clock and flexed the shafts in both directions and the results as to where the FLO of the shaft was were very different. So it does matter which direction you flex the shaft and this testing proved to me that setting the spine to 3 O'Clock for a righty and flexing to the left was most definitely giving a FALSE reading.
All the clubs of the world can be made techically perfect. The problem lies with the millions of golfers (even the hundreds in the PGA) that do not have a consistently perfect swing. Humans are not a nd never will be as near to perfection as any tool can be. One can FLO, Spine align any shaft as much as one wants, there will always ne the ''fluke'' effect of the human part of a golf swing. As perfect as the tool may be technically, the human swing will never be consistently perfect. This is why some days one shoots the game of his life and some other days, he'd been better going to the farm and spread manure...
I get the FLO and will use it but the spine alignment part is a waste of time. Just take the piece of tape with a line on it and, once you find the FLO, place it appropriately. No reason to even do the spine alignment because it had nothing to do with the FLO, in this case.
Fully aware and this is mentioned often. The reason, as stated in the video, was to show the difference between the two methods as there is confusion that they are the same. In the latter part of the video, I show the line of the spine aligned shaft as opposed to the FLO'd line.
@@XJSimulations Ahhhh, got it. Sorry about that. I really enjoyed the video and others I have watched and am looking forward to the "work" this winter to FLO all of my clubs.
i haven't seen anyone actually prove the benefits. i have seen that tested against each method there is no real benefit with good quality shafts. i don't waste the time or $$ for it.
To each their own, but I've never had a individual come back a say they did not see any improvement with a FLO'd shaft. I know I will not play without the shafts being FLO'd.
Thanks for watching. I have answered this question a few times. The only reason was to show the different results between the two methods. Spine alignment or spinning a shaft is not the correct way to locate the FLO of a shaft.
I have performed the flo procedure on all my woods.I lost my laser that I used in the past and wanted to check a friends driver.This a alternative, I clamped the driver shaft in my vise cautiously, cut a thin strip of white tape and put it at right angle to the face and in the center of the head.put my bright pen light to shine on the dot then did a few twangs of the shaft,this works, you can see right to left line or oscillation of tape line quite clearly.
I call it poor boy puring.
Thanks for this. I am just about to build my new clubs glad I found this LOL. Knew of spine aligning but knew nothing of FLO ... I do now , thanks to you. Look bottom line anything Tom Wishon says is gold in my opinion the guy has forgotten more about golf clubs than I will ever know and I'm not USA based I'm Australian based and know of Tom he truly is International.
Glad you found the information helpful. I am a true believer in FLO'ing shafts. It makes a difference in equipment performance. Thanks for watching and for being a subscriber!
Great video! thanks! Where did the label end up when installed for this shaft?
Honestly, I do not remember, but I can promise it was not label up :)
Love the video, explained very well. Question does it matter how far the whiteboard is from the golf shaft tip laser?
I agree completely about putting the softest bending axis of the shaft (the spine) in line with the target line when finding the FLO. Often/usually the FLO will be relatively close to the axis of the spine. There is another advantage in doing this. Having the softest flex axis near the target direction when assembling the club will mean the axis that bends much less will be perpendicular to the target line. That will mean the shaft bends down less and, therefore, the club head droops less at impact, making solid contact easier. I do one thing different than what you show. I use the actual club head jammed on to the shaft with a small piece of rubber band to hold it there. I FLO the shaft that way since it duplicates the center of gravity of the head being away from the center of the shaft. Obviously I turn the head so it starts with the clubface facing the same direction as the mark on the tape and I keep adjusting the head position slightly when turning the shaft in the vise until the shaft oscillates in a straight line. The club face needs to keep being adjusted to face perpendicular to the line of twang. Once I find the FLO axis I mark the tape with a different color line, but on the FLO axis (9 o'clock). When assimbling the club I put the second color line facing the target which is the straight line FLO axis. It is just a different way to get to the same result.
is the only way to do this yourself or are there businesses that provide the service? ty for your comment, it seems most logical to "FLO" the shaft with the head on it since at the end of the day that's how you are gonna hit it. Additionally, i feel as if different heads have different weights and center of gravity which might affect the perfect shaft allignment.
so to make sure i followed this correctly, after flo'ing the shaft then allign the 12 o'clock flo mark with the club face? or how do you know where to align that mark with? i had assumed the club head would have a mark to align to, but that is not the case of my club heads at least, so the 12 o'clock of a driver head vs a 60* changes wouldn't it?
Great channel!!! I would be interested to see if the shaft flos a tiny bit differently with the head dry fitted on to it than with just the laser weight. Since the weight of a clubhead is not centered around the shaft but on the side of it.
Thanks for watching and glad you're enjoying the content! The laser is actually on the high side of the shaft during the FLO process. Therefore, it is similar to the weighting of a club head. Some individuals actually use a dry fit club head to FLO the shaft.
Great video and easy to understand directions. Thank you for making the video.
+Jp Pierce glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks for watching.
You can flo steel shafts in irons too? Thank you
And you will not believe the difference it will make!
Very interesting video and impressive shop. One item which was not addressed was if shaft spine has any correlation to FLO result. Since FLO is the goal, why bother with finding the spine (other than maybe giving you a good place to start with FLO process) since the shaft needs to be installed at 12 o'clock after FLO completed anyway?
Hello Chris, I get this question a ton so you are not alone. The ONLY reason I did the spine marking was to show in the video the difference between a FLO'd alignment and a Spine alignment which rarely correlate. Apparently, I did not do a good enough job explaining that point in the video, but I'm always happy to answer the question. ua-cam.com/video/PrVkh1dig9o/v-deo.html
In the end of this video, you mention that it comes down to the matter of millimeters when the club head comes into impact with the golf ball when making sure the FLO is in the proper position. There is such a small gap when it comes to the consistency. As far as the installation of the club head in the 12:00 position, is there a certain forgiveness when this takes place? I feel as if this has a certain importance as well and I am just wanting to make sure the golf head is as center as possible when going into the shaft for installation. This is a case for a club (without) an adapter, just shaft to driver head. Wondering if there is anything other than just eyeballing this step for a better accuracy. Any feedback on this would be most helpful. Thank you and thanks for all the videos, they are all great in the info they provide!
I have used a laser down the shaft previously in order to mark the insertion point on the club. I would recommend this to you. This can produce very accurate results. If you FLO enough shafts, you will get accustomed to using your eyes to line up the shaft.
That sounds great, thanks for help!
Great video! I had never heard of flo before. It makes perfect sense of why it would help consistency.
I'm a true believer in the theory. It is an important step to ensure your equipment will perform at its maximum potential. Thanks for watching and subscribing!
So adjustable hosel driver shafts should be flowed to neutral setting? Is it possible to check flow with the adapt4r in place?
Thanks for the info. Nice, thorough explanation. So, looking at the movement of the laser oscillating after you "twang" the shaft, it seems to take a half dozen oscillations before they begin to get wonky. Makes me wonder if it makes any positive difference. One thing for sure, however, it definitely can't hurt. As little time as it takes to find that ideal plane, I'm all for it regardless.
So how did it work out for you?
I agree 100%, I started flowing my DCB's and only 2 out of 6 were where the Osculation had a flat line. The Epic Max (brand new) was the worst and by rotating it I was able to reduce it to a small oval but the adjustable hosel is a joke.
Have you found that you are more consistent or less dispersion with your FLO'd shafts?
I will buy a shaft puller and hosels and let you know when I am done.
Callaway adjustable hosels and one other brand I don't remember (PXG?) will keep the shaft in the same orientation regardless of the setting.
You explained this process perfectly. I have been floing shafts forever. Whenever I try to explain to a customer why and how it's done they look at me like I'm crazy. I will send them your link from now on! And hell yeah. It does make a huge difference. I love to experiment and have way too much time on my hands to do so. Since I started floing my own shafts, dispersion is RIDICULOUSLY tight! If I'm having a "good golf day", I can land my 8 Iron shots in a hula hoop!
Do you find it a little more challenging to find the Flo as the shafts get shorter? For example, steel shafts for 8 or 9 through to the wedges? I eventually find it, but it takes a bit.
I completely agree with you and glad to find another person who is as passionate about FLO'ing shafts as I am! To prove the point, I have two identical 6 irons, one is FLO'd and one is not; I get an individual to hit both and ask which one they prefer (I do not tell them which one is FLO'd prior to hitting the irons). Without fail, it is always the FLO'd iron. I cannot say that shorter shafts cause me an issue more than longer shafts, but honestly I've never really paid much attention to it either. I do note that better quality shafts are MUCH easier to find the FLO. Glad the video helped and thanks for the promotion.
@@XJSimulations
To add one more apple to the ox cart...
I Flo with the Golf Mechanix chucked tip weight and Flo tracer with the adjustable weighting along with the shaft rotation dial indicator.
I also start with the spine alignment mark. Very rarely does it line up with with Flo, but when it does I consider this the holy grail of shafts! To get back on topic, when I find Flo, I re adjust my dial indicator to 0°. Then I rotate the shaft 180°, and it should Flo exactly the same. I then note the height of the laser point. In most cases with steel shafts, there is a high side and low side. I use the highest point where the laser flo's at 12:00, as this point is a bit stiffer to help compensate for shaft droop. Just one of my little secrets, as Viagra will not help with this particular type of shaft droop.
@@mikereling6045 great points which I considered going into detail about in the video, but it seemed to be a bit too much information. Hopefully, those more interested will read your comment.
So if you want to help draw a club, in what position would you align the spine?
You should close the clubface to promote a draw. However, you will still need to have a correct swing path for it to be effective; alone it will not correct a slice.
I find the way you FLO a shaft interesting. It is the same way I do it. I put the mark 90 degrees different that you do (on the FLO axis) so it is in line with the target line when the club is assembled, but the resulting shaft position in the assembled club is the same. I have never understood why some people assemble the club with the FLO line perpendicular to the target line. It seems that would make the shaft droop more, be less consistent in behavior, and increase the difficulty in hitting the ball in the center of the face.
Either way will work as long as the person understands the FLO should be parallel to the swing place/path. I guess the marking is only a preference. I am not sure why someone would place the FLO shaft in the position you referred too. Odd.
Thanks, it certainly makes a lot of sense.
What clamp do you use in the vise to FLO? My rubber clamps dampen the twang too much.
That’s odd as I’ve never heard that mentioned. I have a set of shaft clamps I purchased years ago; one is standard oval and one is a diamond clamp. Either of those work well. You may want to look for clamp options at GolfWorks or Golf Mechanix
Thanks for the education, however I want to clarify this with a adjustable driver, the instant you change the setting on the driver the oscillation plane will change. How do we take this into account while re-shafting a adjustable driver.
I've answered this question many times before and the answer is you cannot. Set the FLO'd position for the most used degree/loft setting the individual prefers. That is the best you can hope for.
@@XJSimulations Thank you for the reply
That is true with all brands except Callaway. The Callaway adjustable tip is ingenious because it allows the shaft orientation to stay the same without regard to the tip setting adjustments. (I use Callaway woods.)
understood with thanks - keep up the awesome work Gents
Awesome, thank you!
Nice vid GI. Have been using a variation of this process that I call 'the twang test'. What we are finding is the axis upon which the shaft wants to flex. I use a rubber shaft clamp in a vice and twang the butt end. The axis is the same whichever end the shaft is viewed from. A 'twang ' on any angle across the shaft will find the path of least resistance as the oscillations settle out, then all that's left is to find the top (or bottom). How do we come up with a test to measure the effect of Chubby Checkers (torque) on this axis.As I understand, manufacturers still have no uniform method of torque measurement. Thanks again
Good question on torque, but that will require actual equipment to conduct that test.
torque is measured in "foot pounds". the butt is clamped in a vise. then a 12" long "arm" is clamped to the tip and a gauge on the arm is set to 0° on its scale. a one pound weight is hung from the end of the arm causing the shaft to twist under this load. the scale will indicate how many degrees the shaft twisted under load(thus "foot pounds". generally speaking slower swingspeeds can handle higher (
>3.5°) torque while faster speeds generally indicate lower (
I used your method and found the high spine just like you show here, worked great and can definitely feel it. The follow the remaining step just as you describe here. I did it on a "Pured" shaft that has the factory sticker just to check and see if my method actually worked along with what they had gotten from this specific shaft before I went on to do it on my newer shaft. The interesting thing is the pure sticker when following your method appears DIRECTLY on the bottom on the opposite side, I mean exactly opposite at the 6 o'clock position. Can you let me know what you think about this. I know sometimes shafts have two spines as you mention, but definitely felt the "high spine as you mention... any thoughts.
Thanks and really great videos, really helping me out.
When a shaft is FLO'd it can have two positions on the shaft directly opposite of the other. Unless you have expensive equipment (PURed), you cannot tell exactly which of those positions would be "best" for the shaft. Please remember though, it is not the spine of the shaft you want to identify, but the FLO position of the shaft. In the video, I used the spine method to demonstrate the difference between the two positions on the shaft. Apparently, I did a poor job explaining why in the video as this point has been missed many times and answered many times below in the comments :)
Thanks for the answer, pretty much what I assumed but was curious... And also, not at all, I completely understood by your video that finding the spine was just a starting point to help you get closer to Flo'ing the shaft, made perfect sense to me. Yeah I figured that after I Flo'ed the shaft that it was probably something like that with the "PURED" line being that it was exactly at 6 o'clock as mentioned... but obviously the method worked pretty darn well if I came up with an exact posit side of the PURED results... thanks again
Absolutely understood that the spine check was a starting point.And that the FLO was the main point.Great Vid.
I spline the shaft in the 2 bushings on a vertical plane, straight up and down. Then I put the clubhead on the shaft without epoxy. Then I stress the shaft and align the face of the club so that it is facing at a 90 degree angle from where the spline is. Then mark the shaft and the hosel so that I can remove the bushings, then reattach the club head with epoxy.
When I stress the shaft during the golf swing the same as I stressed it with the bushings the shaft will want to square up the club face the same as it did in the bushings.
This method would seem to best simulate the actual stresses generated in the golf swing.
Assuming that the "spine line" and the "FLO line" of a shaft are not the same, why bother finding the spine? If building a club so that the "FLO line" is properly located is most critical/ beneficial to club performance - and it doesn't coincide with the "spine line" - finding the spine location seems to be irrelevant. Correct, or am I missing something? Thanks for your excellent video!
I get this question often. You do NOT have to spine align the shaft in order to find the FLO. The video was done to show people the difference between a SPINE aligned shaft and a FLO'd shaft. More importantly, the fact that the two rarely are in the same position on the shaft. There is still confusion out there about the two methods or thinking the two methods are one in the same. I've had this question before regarding "why" do it this way; again, the reason was to show the difference of the actual FLO position of the shaft. Glad you are enjoying the video!
The Spine is a Starting Point Only
It only matters if the shaft shows only 1 spine.
I guess you could choose which side you wanted the spine on.
For example; 10 o'clock position versus 4 o'clock position.
If the spine runs straight through (2 spines) then it really doesn't matter.
I was also confused by the need to find spline. After finding the spine, he said "next step" is to find FLO. I took this to mean the spline location had some relevance to FLO. I'm getting back into club making and plan to just focus on the FLO. I trust the flow line as more important to performance than where I feel the spine.
@Chuck best answer
Can you skip the spine alignment step if your going to flo the shaft and then move the alignment tape anyway?
Absolutely. Finding the spine is not required to FLO a shaft.
Thanks for comprehensive intro, if final result is to get the FLO, then why not skip the Spine part, pls advise
Thanks for watching. I have answered this question a few times. The only reason was to show the different results between the two methods. Spine alignment or spinning a shaft is not the correct way to locate the FLO of a shaft.
If your shaft are professionally Pured.. is this and spinning neccessary or provide any benefits?
No, it is not necessary. A PURE'd shaft will produce the same results as a FLO'd shaft. Two different processes to reach the same result.
OK, got one more question. Doing my new shaft now from scratch now that I've proved with a PURED shaft that I can do it properly. Finding the spine before I FLO it, it has two very noticeable spines, when you say the find the strongest point, do you mean the biggest or tallest spine between the two or the one that gives you the most resistance of flex in the shaft? Because one is noticeably taller, but the other one seems to give more shaft resistance, so which would you mark as you spine? Thanks again, these videos of yours are really awesome and have taught me a lot.
Either one will work as a starting point simply because it does not matter in the end. However if you can feel the difference between the two spines, i.e. the flex of a particular point in the shaft, use that feel to determine the best FLO position on the shaft (previous discussion below). One position will have a bit more flex than the other 180 degrees opposite. As such, typically that will be the position that can deliver more distance.
Makes perfect sense, thank you very much for your help.
What a great video! Thank you for taking the time to make all of your videos your channel sure has helped me a ton. I do have a dumb question! Why even spine the shaft of your going to flo it and it's in a different spot all together. When I first learned that you spine and flo a shaft and they are at different areas of the shaft my question was so which one do you use for alignment. Just not understanding why you spine if your going to flow and use that anyway. Thank you for all your help have a wonderful weekend.
I'm glad you are enjoying the videos. Not a dumb question at all. You do NOT have to spine align the shaft in order to find the FLO. The video was done to show people the difference between a SPINE aligned shaft and a FLO'd shaft. More importantly, the fact that the two rarely are in the same position on the shaft. There is still confusion out there about the two methods or thinking the two methods are one in the same. I've had this question before regarding "why" do it this way; again, the reason was to show the difference of the actual FLO position of the shaft.
Thank you very much have a great week!
@@XJSimulations Supposedly the spine finder finds the very slight pre-existing bend in the shaft, not necessarily the axis on which it bends the easiest (or the most).
Some would argue the bearing based "spine finder" is not finding a spine, but how the shaft is naturally not perfectly straight but has a slight curve in it , when not flexed. Nothing is manufactured perfectly straight. If a shaft was so unstraight it looked like a kitchen spatula, it would would always rotate to that same position in the bearing curve finder, every time. Yet what does that have to do with how the club actually oscillates when it bends? Not always much, as the shaft is often rotated away from the curve aligned spot to find a spine it will flo in. I prefer to flo the shaft vertical. I have a tip weight with a laser pointed rubber banded to it. I can leave it a tad loose and slightly shake the shaft to get the tip/laser center of gravity to fall straight down, and then tighten it. Then i know the tip weight and laser's center of gravity is straight in line with a straight vertical twang.
Could the flo be aligned to correct a slice or hook?
Well, no and yes. It is highly likely to lessen the hook or slice, but it is not likely correct it completely. One thing for certain, it will help to correct one, with practice over time, as it is more certain to deliver the clubhead on a particular swing plane.
I have seen situations where a shaft is so off the FLO that it did correct the swing flaw, but this really depends. Typically, an easy way to identify that type situation; if you have one particular club that "feels right, can't miss with or is your go to club," it is likely that club's shaft just happens to be in or very close to the FLO position.
great video, quick question after you flo the shaft with laser how do you locate and mark iron heads correctly?
Thanks for watching. I'm not certain, I understand your question. If you are referring to shaft insertion into the iron after locating the FLO, I line up the iron head with a straight sharpie line on the top of the workbench and then ensure the shaft is inserted at the 12 o'clock position of the shaft. I mark the FLO position of the shaft with a piece of tape marked with a black sharpie line prior to removing the laser and shaft from the vice after locating the FLO. If that does not help to answer your question, please let me know.
This is a dumb follow up but I want to be clear....Is 12 o'clock in line with the leading sole of the club? Seems like FLO is the way to go vs spine align.
@@kylec4498 12 o'clock is towards the toe of the clubhead. 9 o'clock is towards the target when the clubhead is in the impact position. XJ moves the tape so the mark is at 12 o'clock, but when he does that the FLO axis (straight line oscillation) is at 9 o'clock (towards the target).
Does the position of a shaft that has been FLO'd vary when it is inserted into a left handed clubhead? Is it still inserted at the 12 o'clock position?
Still the 12 o'clock, that's correct.
Hi, was wondering what the difference is between FLO and SST Puring. Thanks and great video!
SST is a patented, technical, automated piece of equipment that determines the neutral axis for a shaft; It can be quite expensive for each shaft, let alone the entire bag. FLO'ing is also a process for finding the neutral axis for the shaft. Just understand it is two separate processes that are looking for the same conclusion. Thanks for watching and be sure to subscribe.
Thanks for the response. Subscribed! I was also wondering do you need to do it on a raw uncut shaft first, or do you tip it first then FLO, or butt cutt then FLO.
Is does not matter. You can FLO the shaft at any point. Keep in touch with your results!
i have an aldila rip phenom tour x 70 with a line on the but end. it seems safe to say that this is the spine. no? it happens to be label up. additionally i have some new project x flighted 6.5 my clubmaker down the street said that the have a spine label down. the fellow at true temper that i spoke to said they don;t have spines? i am confused. also do you see regularities as far as label orientation goes and flow. i dont have a vice to check for myself and am doing it on the cheap. i appreciate your service and any reply.
Unfortunately, that may or may not be the case. A line on the shaft (butt end) could be simply for alignment purposes during install to ensure the label is centered. There is simply no way to know for certain without additional information. The shafts must be checked in order to determine the FLO. As I mentioned in the video, labels do NOT indicate FLO alignment of the shaft. Thanks for watching.
So it's all about FLO...it has nothing to do with finding the spine. You orient the shaft into the club based on the FLO results. Finding the spine is just a waste of time?
Correct. I used the spine method to show the difference and the fact that spine alignment is not the FLO in the video.
Finding the NBP helps locate the FLO a lot easier, right?
When talking about FLO and Spine, we need to be discussing Natural Bend Plane. It’s the most important vocab word here, and I didn’t hear it once. Are you placing the spine generally in the 12 or 6 position? 6 being ideal imo. And then placing the FLO’d NBP in the 9 position (9 to 3)?
Question, should FLO-ing be performed before or after the shaft has been trimmed. Thank you!
It can be done at any time and does not matter if it is pre or post shaft trimming. You should get the same result in regard to the FLO of the shaft. Thanks for watching!
@@XJSimulations, I just tried FLO-ing a Dynamic Gold Stiff Shaft with a drill chuck & laser and the response I get is a flat line regardless of the shaft orientation. Now, the initial path may be elliptical at the start, which probably is due to me, but shortly after becomes a flat line. Question, is FLO-ing required when using a good quality stiff shaft? Thank you.
Except for the putter, I highly recommend FLO'ing all shafts. The stiffness or quality will not dictate anything about the FLO of a shaft. It can, and likely will, vary from shaft to shaft. If you can get a straight line reading 50% or more of the time when you are FLO'ing, you've likely found the proper position. I completely understand the self-inflicted "flick" problem, but if it is a straight path 3 of 6, 4 of 8, etc., it is in the right position. Some shafts can have very slight changes and some will have very wild patterns. The more you work at it, the more comfortable you will become in determining if the shaft is producing a FLO'd pattern.
@@XJSimulations When FLOing it becomes obvious which companies FLO their shafts before putting on the labels. I test all shafts anyway.
Before FLOing the shaft, do you have to take the adapter off?
Technically no, but I do recommend it as you will need to reset the adapter to "your" preferred settings.
Like so many....if we have to adjust for course conditions. Shaft building needs a leap forward on development. Thanks for great vid.
I'm not seeing your point. Can you explain?
Great Vid,I really have got to understand the point of this.Other channels have some negative comments,probably because they are not explained so well.If people think that this is not nesessary,then that’s their viewpoint.But with the price of Golf clubs these days,this should be part of the build.I don’t know if all manufacturers go into this detail when assembling their clubs,But! they should.Even if this makes only the slightest difference to an average golfer,then it is needed.
Thanks for the comments. It would be nice if all shafts had the FLO position marked, but due to the time and extra cost, we will have to pay for that additional cost. Very well worth it IMO and all of the customers I've had in the past.
If manufascturers did this only the best shafts would have the labels all pointed in the same direction. People would think it was weird for the labels to not be aligned. A few expensive shafts are tested before putting the label on so they are aligned, but not many.
Can you send the links to buying the devices?
Golf Mechanix - www.golfmechanix.com
Search for "Frequency Tip Weight with Built-In Laser" it will pull the item up.
question regarding the Flo... Once I have found the Flo line, normally we would install this line on "top" of the golf shaft, as if we were looking down that line, and the club head faced 90 degrees, will the "flowing" on the shaft still work if you put the flo line on the bottom side of the shaft? (think of installing the new mcc align grip, where the flow line would run down the top side of the grip, and I am asking, if the flowing would still work if we ran the flow line down the back side of the shaft, where the "align rib" would be on the new grip..)
If you think of looking down at the shaft toward the club head as a clock face, the 12 o'clock position is the proper position for a FLO'd shaft. In some cases, there will be another FLO position directly opposite of the FLO position on the shaft. However, you need to check. If the shaft has a duel opposite FLO position, one of the positions will be stronger than the other. It may work, but you need to check the opposite position to be certain.
Golfing Idiots I'll have to double check as I did find two FLO positions as I was working on my driver. the reason I asked pertains more to the fact that the driver has an adjustable tip and there is an arrow on the bottom side of the driver, indicating which line you are on. I would be curious to see a video on this, specific to adjustable tip drivers
Regarding the two FLO positions, it is not uncommon on a shaft. Usually better shafts. Typically, one of the FLO positions will produce a slightly longer distance and the other a tighter dispersion. In regard to adjustable drivers, I get this question often.
What you need to remember is an adjustable driver's function, by design, is to allow a player to dial in their best loft and lie out of the box or OTS rather than having to wait for a custom fit club to arrive two weeks later. Once you dial in your best settings on the driving range, you should really not be adjusting the numbers. Therefore, once your driver is set in the preferred position you can FLO the shaft.
@@amidgetonamoped8637 If you want to keep the shaft in the correct position, but adjust a tip you will have to remove the tip and re-orient (re-epoxy) it. Usually installing the tip in a clubhead first makes re-installation easier. This doesn't apply with Callaway tips. They can keep the shaft in the same position in relation to the clubface regardless of the tip settings. You have to make sure you put it back together with the new tip settings with the shaft in the same orientation as before, assuming it was correct. It is possible to put the clubhead back in with the shaft in any position on a Callaway if you are not paying attention.
Hi XJ
Thank you for this very interesting video
You are using a laser moving in a horizontal plane to find the FLO.But once you found it
- Is the mark you make with your pen on the top of the shaft , say 12 oclock or at 9 oclock , assuming the target is at 9 oclock (R handed golfer) ?
- If using a vertical motion of the laser, would you mark the FLO on the shaft at 9 oclock ?
- Would you still mount the club head at 12 oclock , refering to that mark ?
- Is it possible to mount the club head taking the 6 oclock position , as it is on the same plane ?
- If yes, which position should be chosen ? Does the distance to the spine position matters, like the closer the better ?
Best regards
Regardless of if you find the FLO of the shaft (horizontal or vertical), always remember that is the plane the shaft needs to travel in during the swing. Technically, you can place the club in either direction of that plane, but I did not want to confuse the issue anymore.
Really interesting video. Yet, I wonder why was it important to locate the spine if the FLO won't depend on it. Did I miss something?
Good question. No, it is not necessary to locate the spine, but I wanted to show the difference between the two methods. A lot of people confuse spine alignment and FLO as one in the same. Obviously, they're very different when it comes to results. Thanks for watching.
Thanks, I'm glad I got it right. Great video about the shaft stiffness impact based on your swing speed btw. I liked that the data was collected right on the field
Why find the spine when you’re going to move the tape anyway when you find flat oscillation? Why not just start at oscillation?
Fully aware and this is asked often. The reason, as stated in the video, was to show the difference between the two methods as there is confusion that they are the same. In the latter part of the video, I show the line of the spine aligned shaft as opposed to the FLO'd line.
Great video !!
What is the point to find the spine if you can just FLO the shaft using the laser?
Thanks
Thanks for watching and sorry for the delayed response as I am deployed currently. This simple answer is saved time finding the FLO of the shaft. You do not have to do the step, but I have found it speeds up the process. Thanks for watching and be sure to subscribe.
Great video. I understand the benefit of flo for graphite shafts, would you use the same process to flo steel shafts. Again great video, look forward to your response.
Yes, the same process is used for steel. Thanks for watching.
One more question, to locate Spine and FLO are only appropriate on graphite shafts? Or also applicable on iron shafts?
FLO technique is for ALL shafts including steel. Works just as well for irons.
With adjustable hosels on drivers, doesn't the Flo point change in the shaft when you start changing the adjustable hosel for more loft, draw or fade? Thanks,
The point of an adjustable driver is to allow someone to "custom fit" the driver without the need of a set-up from the producer. If you are a player who constantly changes settings, FLO will not work for you or FLO to the position you use most often. Think about it for a second, do you constantly bend loft and lie on your irons?
I enjoyed your vid - thanks for making. Question: Why do you show how to spine align? Are you just explaining the difference between that and FLOing? It seems to me if I wanted to FLO my own clubs I would just attach the laser (or chuck) and get to it. The position of the spine seems irrelevant at that point or am I missing something? I'm just making sure it is not *necessary* to find the spine before FLOing the club. Thanks again.
+majorwhiz Finding the spine "usually" makes a faster determination of the FLO as a reference point. It is not required in order to find the FLO of the shaft, just a little something that will make the process a bit faster. Thanks for watching and sorry for the delayed response as I am deployed currently.
Is it possible that a shaft has no detectable spine and flo's in all orientations? I have a set of Veylix Alpina and tried spining and floing but i swear it flat lines in all different ways.
I have seen this to a certain extent in a few shafts, but it is quite rare. There should be some minor spine and a "best" FLO position in the shaft. If not, count yourself lucky and enjoy the shafts! Is it with all of the shafts or just a few in the set? Thanks for watching and for your question.
How do I align the flo to create a draw bias for a right handed player?
I have been informed that it is illegal to set-up a shaft in such a manner. However, I am not convinced. It will really depend on your swing path and club face angle, but you may be able to influence the shaft direction via FLO. If you use my method of 12 o'clock placement and you are a right handed player, you would need to set the shaft in the hosel at the 1 or 2 o'clock position. I have never tried it. Good luck.
Thank you for the reply, another question not related to flo, what are the rectangle color markings on a raw graphite golf shaft signify? Thank You, Ray.
Ray to my knowledge that has something to do with the manufacturing process. It is not significant.
UPDATE on INFLUENCE of FLO on DRAW, I usually hit off center 5-20 yards right with my driver flo'd properly, I pulled the shaft, rechecked spine and Flo, positioned the Flo at the 1 oclock position for a RH Player, and it Does Work, I Hit 30 Balls and everyone of them were either Straight, 2-3 yds right or Very minimal Left for Me!
@@raytollefson6622 yes you can definitely cause your shots to consistently,fade or draw,i have. several shafts that I clocked the adapters to do just that,I tricked a friend that draws the ball by giving him my m2 with a fade bias adapter ,he hit 12 balls in a row with a fade and he just kept shaking his head.
can you do this with the grip still on, using the "drum" or "pipe" style aligner?
I would not recommend it as the results of FLO alignment could be inaccurate with the grip still on the shaft. Thanks for watching!
This is all crap for an adjustable driver! !
@@rickgray2465 Not if you have the ability to remove the tip and re-orient it, or if you have a Callaway wood which allows any tip settings with the shaft in any position.
when setting the club head for an iron, i lean the shaft forward and then square the clubface, when i rebuild my club, what is the "12 o clock position" in relation to the club face, when you account for a clubface/hossel that is set up with forward shaft lean?
When you are looking down at the club face it should be square to the target line; the FLO position is inline with the grooves of the club head in the 12 o'clock position. It will become easier to find the more you try it.
Golfing Idiots against my "better" judgement. I went with this approach as you mentioned I got the feeling that I should try it this way and see how my ball striking improves with a flowed shaft before potentially screwing things up even worse. lol. I'll get to test it tomorrow. I had to rebuild my 9 iron and decided to do driver too while I was at it. I'm extremely anxious to see the results as I just know this is going to improve my game. thanks for the great videos! I will report findings
Well let me know the results. I would be shocked if you do not find better ball striking and consistent flight. Look forward to hearing from you.
It definitely tightened my dispersion. by like 15-20 yards for my slice. I used to hit out 175 and right 40-60 yds. (seriously)- if I could get a straight shot, i could roll it out to 280ish (293 once.. lucky bounce).
After flowing my driver i'm carrying over 225 when i hit them straight, but my slices dont go over into the next fareway anymore.
I'm now doing this on all of my other clubs, however i seem to be finding it hard to get a FLO line on the graphite shafts. (i have a REALLY cheap set made by powerbilt). The irons are fine and i find with ease, but the graphite shafts for the hybrids and woods just dont seem to have that perfectly flat point (it gets close, but there is either a slight slope to it, or it still "loops" towards the end of the oscilation cycle. anyway, I turn 31 today and we are supposed to play sunday afternoon to celebrate, so i need to get my clubs back together... lol better get on that.
Awesome and glad to hear about your progress. Hopefully, other people will see your response and improved results. Some cheaper graphite shafts can be difficult to FLO. Take your time. Ultimately, you may have to choose what the "best" option is for the shaft to be close to FLO. Good luck!
I mounted a laser. on the club face of my burner driver,then mounted the shaft in my vise with the grip on. The shaft had been filled and marked,dry mounted head with laser and checked oscillation,would not flat line with 12 o clock position but it was fairly close approx 10 degrees off,glued the head on re checked ok but added a little lead tape to the head and no longer flat lined,so weighing the head is problematic and I think you should load the shaft the same amount every time you test and that should be somewhere near the actual bend when in use or at impact.I think with a little practice I could make a driver produce a cut or hook by adjusting the head to spine at different angles.
the flexibility of the grip affects flo. best to flo without a grip.
@@nunyabidnez2708 you would be 100% correct if we used a driver without a grip,I am trying to replicate the flex rebound as it occurs in actual play.All I can say my method works in play situations and I have many satisfied customers.
i get what you're saying. in physics EVERYTHING matters. there is a difference between the amount of force applied to the gripped club in the vice vs your hands so even THAT can skew the results but i like the way you're thinking of it.
I never heard of FLO before! Great video with some serious interesting info here. Makes me wonder if my Taylormade R15 has a proper FLO for the standard hosel position. You got my sub. You seem to be pretty smart when it comes to club repair. Any info on how I can fix the nasty sky mark scratches on my black 460cc R15 driver?
Easiest way to fix those "sky marks" is rubbing compound that would be used on autos. Use a damp cloth and a back and forth motion to remove the marks. Be sure to use wax to bring the luster back to the area after that. Thanks for watching and be sure to subscribe!
Golfing Idiots,
Thanks! I also subscribed.
Why do you spine the shaft if you are going to build the club with based on its flo? Just curious.
It was to show the difference between the two methods and how inaccurate the spine method is in the process.
Wouldn't it make more sense to flo the club with the club head installed? I would think the club head mass affects the harmonics because the head and the shaft have to work as a unit and each has its own harmonic.
You can, but it will not change or influence the FLO position. It certainly makes the process more difficult.
Here's what Wishon says in response to that question:
"Today, many shaft makers pre-test their shafts to locate a consistent plane of bending in the shaft, and only then paint and apply the name/logo to the shafts. Thus, with the vast majority of quality shafts made today, there is little need to have the shafts checked for spine location and re-installed in the clubheads."
I'm not sure I believe that. Unless you are referring to the demo clubs the companies send out to the field. Surprisingly, most of those shafts are in the FLO position... curious.
@@XJSimulations look up Wishon's career in the industry. I respect your opinion, but some opinions are clearly worth more than others
Nice video. Thank you.
Glad you liked it!
I tested this.
and the results are different.
1. I took just the laser
2. the laser on the clubhead
3. a 300gramm weight
as you mentioned your laser is 200g.
my clubheads are 274g
Any ideas or comments?
I am note completely sure what the issue is, but what type of shaft is it?
So do you need to find the spine to FLO it?
Absolutely not. I wanted to show the difference between the FLO line and the Spine line of a shaft as they are usually not one in the same. Thanks for watching!
Is FLO useful for steel shafts as well?
Thanks for watching and sorry for the delayed response as I am deployed currently. Absolutely. The same benefits will be received with your irons. The only club in your bag that does not need to be FLO'd would be your putter. Other than that, I recommend completing the set for FLO'd shafts. Thanks for watching and be sure to subscribe.
It was interesting that the laser maintained the straight line despite it going from left to right. I thought gravity would eventually make it so that the laser line was curved, but it stayed straight.
I'm very much a beginner at golf, and made the mistake of reading Tom Wishon's books ;-)
This is a DIY project? Take the club head off, find the FLO position, and glue it back on?
I have three Adams hybrids, and 6-P irons. The others were done by the club builder (Wishon dealer), but he recommended against me paying him to work much on old hybrids. He set the swing weights, but that's all. I'm re-gripping them.
Thanks for watching. Yes, Tom Wishon is "Da' Man" when it comes to tech and golf.
@@XJSimulations I guess it's a DIY thing; I'll make a shaft puller and try it on old clubs before I move on to the hybrids.
I figure a long bolt, a couple big washers, a short piece of pipe, and a couple old valve springs should have it. I have a laser pointer somewhere. Rubber v-block for the vice...
A decade back i imported a set a shafts for my iron heads for replacements as a cple of them had broken down and the grips worn out. Thr american who sent me said that he is sending me spine aligned and pured iron shafts and just ask the local clubfitter to fit them accordingly ! The clubs performed awesome and were consistent . Recently i had to get my m1 adaptor ferrule redone on a shaft which i paid a handsome amount to the dealer . The ferrule and adaptor were getting seperated bcos of impact ! I requested the local certified clubfitter that he should check the spine and set the shaft correctly . What he did was set the neutral setting to upright wherby changing the alignment and original setting . The sad part is as a professional fitter he said the spining didnt matter . I was taken back . What a loss i had . And i found the not so good setting on the lower loft of course not to my liking. I think professionalism needs a new definition. Your vdo is a class apart it explains how seriously club fitting is taken and really helps the player achieve the goals. Thanks for reading this .
Sorry about your poor experience. Keep in mind spine alignment and FLO are completely different. FLO is along the lines of the PURING process (trademark protected). FLO is what will make a huge difference throughout all your clubs in the bag.
Wouldn't you want to put the shaft into the head with the line on the face side or target side? When you swing the club doesn't it torque this way and kick into the ball. I dont understand why you would want to put the flo on the 12 oclock to the head.
Keep in mind, you want the FLO line on the swing line. Maybe that will help to visualize how to insert the shaft after FLO'ing.
I'm sure you are inundated with questions, and I'm sure you've answered this before, but I wonder about this. Some guys say to spine first to get close....which makes sense. I see how that might save time. Do you have to twang the club either in the 12/6 plane or the 9/3 plane to get accurate reading? Or can you get accurate readings if you twang in any plane? It's just that people act as if you've got to rotate the shaft in the vice between twangs rather than just leaving it in the vice and rotate the twang plane to get a quicker approximation? I hope what I'm trying to ask makes sense to someone. 🤪
Common question; you can find the FLO in either position. HOWEVER, ensure you make the proper adjustment when you place the shaft in the club. Remember, the FLO plane needs to follow toward the downrange target.
Excellent vid as usual.
+Rob Roberts (RR) thanks for watching!
I like this presentation but like many others there is no full explanation of the proper view orientation when setting spine/flo in clubhead.
Looking down the shaft to the clubhead, 9 o'clock is the correct spot for the flo line for a right handed golfer, but looking from the head towards the grip end puts it at 3 o'clock as you mention. There are reverse placement for lefties as well. I prefer looking down the shaft with 12 o'clock on top, making it 9 for RH Golfer and 3 for LH.
I explained it the best I could in order to assist other people. In your response, you use the term "FLO line" with clock positions which is confusing without the understanding of where the FLO line was marked on the shaft. So if you mark the FLO line of the shaft different from how I explained in the video (i.e. up and down FLO line in the vice as opposed to left and right FLO line in the vice), it will change the shaft insertion to club head to clock position to target position, etc..
Great Vid.... my question is... Current off the shelf drivers come with many settings, Lie, Angle, closed, open etc... so FLO'ing the shaft for these drivers... is it useless?
Great question and the answer is, it depends. If you change the settings often, then FLO'ing the shaft will not be much benefit. If there is one position that you prefer over others, FLO the shaft to that position. Keep in mind, adjustable drivers are really designed for custom fitting for an individual's swing. In theory, you should dial in your setting at the range (or on the course) for your swing and leave it alone which would allow for a FLO'd shaft. Thanks for watching and please subscribe.
Im not bagging flo-ing of golf clubs but from my personal experience with my own clubs I found no difference in distance, feel felt stiffer because I orientated the strongest bend profile toward the target (9 o'clock for Right handers target on left, then fine tuned flo with head on), and consistency was about the same (I didn't miraculously drop 10 shots off my handicap afterwards). I have done both Steel shafted Irons and Graphite shafted fairways and found the same results. In fact the set of clubs I'm using now is untouched (no Flo) and my handicap is the lowest and most consistent its been. Each to their own I Guess.
To each their own. However, I've had more positive feedback regarding shaft FLO from customers.
The FLO axis (straight line oscillation) should be in line with the target line when the club is assembled. Sounds like you were 90 degrees different than that (if I understood you correctly).
@@bobpegram8042 Yes, perfect Flo was aimed at the target not up and down at 12 o'clock. Like I said I don't believe it miraculously changed the club. I could get one of my clubs redone professionally and I believe It would not make any difference.
Very well made video on a interesting topic. My concern with F.L.O. an adjustable driver shaft is that if you change the
hossel location the F.L.O. location will no longer be correct? (I assume) with this in mind I would need to get happy with the hossel location prior t FLOing the shaft Yes/No? Thanks great video deliver for sure.
Great question and the answer is, it depends. If you change the
settings often, then FLO'ing the shaft will not be much benefit. If
there is one position that you prefer over others, FLO the shaft to that
position. Keep in mind, adjustable drivers are really designed for
custom fitting for an individual's swing. In theory, you should dial in
your setting at the range (or on the course) for your swing and leave it
alone which would allow for a FLO'd shaft. Thanks for watching.
So what was the point of doing the spine. You never showed the difference between the mark you put for the spine in the mark you put for the flow
9:42 in the video. I get this question at least once every six months.
Could I send my driver to you for this? What would it cost?
Send an email to golfingidiots@gmail.com and I can forward you the information.
Not so much fun with adjustable club heads?
The purpose of an adjustable driver is to be able to fit the club to your swing without the need of a custom order. Once you have fit the driver to your swing, you can then FLO the shaft for optimal performance. However if you are a constant "tinker" of the adjustable driver, FLO'ing the shaft will not really be a benefit.
Whats the point spining? Why not just get straight to flow??
basically it gives you a reference point rather than just randomly trial and error. it's a time saver mostly but it isnt absolutely necessary.
I get this question often. You do NOT have to spine align the shaft in order to find the FLO. The video was done to show people the difference between a SPINE aligned shaft and a FLO'd shaft. More importantly, the fact that the two rarely are in the same position on the shaft. There is still confusion out there about the two methods or thinking the two methods are one in the same. I've had this question before regarding "why" do it this way; again, the reason was to show the difference of the actual FLO position of the shaft. Glad you are enjoying the video!
I would make sense that the shaft manufacturer would align the shafts before applying graphics so club manufacturers get maximum advertising.
IF any manufacturers FLO shafts, I believe it is only the demo clubs. Other than that, you would need to pay for the service, if they offer it.
It's still confusing as to what position you actually put the FLO plane. In your video you flex the shaft horizontally and get FLO on that plane, which would be the 9 and 3 o'clock plane. That seems to be the plane you want the club to be moving/flexing on as your club approaches the ball and through impact. But, your video seems to be saying to put the FLO plane on the 12 to 6 o'clock plane-- but that's not the plane the shaft is flexing as it approaches impact--it's 90 deg. different. ----or were you saying that you would take the shaft you had in the vice, which was moving side-to-side (9 to 3), and THEN while it is in that orientation, mark the top of the shaft (12 o'clock pos.) and insert it into the clubhead in that same orientation, so that the FLO was still in the 9 to 3 plane. Please clarify.
^this.. i flo’d my clubs by twanging up and down.. marked the top of the shaft 12 o’clock thinking that’s the flo line.. is this not the case.. should I have actually marked it on the side of my shaft at the 3-9 and then installed that line at 12:00?
Yes, that is my question. @@stephenbarry5588
Hi Michael. The flat line (9-3) in this video needs to be aligned towards the target. Marking at 12 oclock is just for ease of assembly, as its easier to look down the length of the shaft to get the head pointed at the target.
Thanks for the clarification. The next issue however, is that some clubfitters then orient the flat line plane PERPENDICULAR to the target line. Why they would do that I don't know, but they do.
There are a few ways to mark the shaft based off the FLO. It does not matter if you find the FLO up and down or left to right. What DOES matter is how the shaft is inserted into the clubhead. You want the FLO to happen through impact. Imagine a clubhead on the shaft as it is moving through impact to determine where you should insert the shaft during assembly. The more you do it, the more it will make sense in what it is you want to accomplish.
Also if you pull unevenly on the shaft will render uneven oscillations....
Yes, this is true and why it is important to get a feel for proper technique.
So Flo'ing a shaft is more important than spinning a shaft?
Basically, yes. The spine and FLO will not always be one in the same. It can be at times, but the FLO is not always related to the spine. Thanks for watching.
i truly believe f.l.o ing of the shafts is better than not doing so. as you can see from the laser... I'd rather a flat line than a circular pattern. currently I'm gluing back together my irons after doing this. soon I'll check my off the shelf driver. then i feel like i can never have any doubt about the equipment i use.
Ian, I completely agree with you. There is no question about the benefits of FLO'ing shafts throughout the bag. If more people would invest in the practice, they would see the immediate benefit in their play. It is a simple, relatively quick service, that pays huge dividends.
S.
@@ikehampton2409 confused about?
Yes I understand that and I have spine finder that I made long ago but I see no benefit in that because the flo seems to be more important and then you have to question adjustable heads for the shaft spine might go anywhere and the flo as well.
@@termides Often the FLO axis is similar to the spine axis, not exactly the same, but similar enough to be a good starting point when finding the FLO axis.
Why not skip the splining process and just FLO the shaft? Make a device that locks up the butt end, but allows rotation, through indents, as it is rotated. The degrees would be marked on the device, and each click is perhaps 2 degree. Rotate through 360 degrees, until the best straight line profile appears, and mark it on the shaft.
hanks for watching. I have answered this question a few times. The only reason was to show the different results between the two methods. Spine alignment or spinning a shaft is not the correct way to locate the FLO of a shaft.
Where is the 12 o’clock of the driver head.
When I refer to 12 o'clock I'm referring to the shaft, not the driver head position.
Close your eyes.. you will hear Lt. Aldo Raine.
Now Scott, my accent is not quite that thick!
Why even find the spine, at all?
I get this question a TON. The reason was only to show the difference between a spine aligned shaft and a FLO'd shaft. Some individuals think those are one in the same.
@@XJSimulations So if I don't care how it was originally aligned, I can probably skip it. Great video - very educational, and you just sent Golf Mechanix a new customer.
Steve Spalding yes, you can skip that step. Again it was only to show the difference between the two methods. FLO will change your golf life!
What happens to the balance of it when you then put a club head on it? Is it still in flow? Doubt it. Why not try it when the club head is on? I don’t see any science here.
I like the video and agree with most things you say in it. However, I believe that there are 2 minor faults in your video, viz.
1. You initially set the spine to the 3 O'clock position (towards the target) and said that you were going to FLO the shaft for a right handed golfer, BUT you flexed the shaft away from the target as though for a left handed player. Wouldn't that be giving you an incorrect FLO result for a right handed golfer?
2. You stated that you could FLO a shaft by flexing up and down OR side ways. You omitted one very important aspect with that. The direction you flex the shaft should be entirely dependent on the vice being used. If the vice is the same as the one in the video, then sideways flexing will give the most accurate result. You should only flex up and down if the vice grips are top & bottom, not side by side. In other words the flexing needs to be against the resistance of the vice otherwise a false result will ensue.
Sorry to be nit picky, but I believe you should have clarified point 2 in the video, and been aware that you actually flexed for a lefty even though you set the spine alignment position for a righty.
First, where the spine does not typically correlate to the FLO of a shaft. I showed that in the video to demonstrate that difference between the two techniques and the how spine alignment or spinning a shaft will not find always find the FLO of the shaft.
Second once the shaft is in the FLO position, you can flex the shaft in either direction and it will maintain the FLO. There is not a difference for a lefty or a righty for FLO. If you want to get picky about the matter, the FLO position actually offers two options when placing it in the shaft depending on if you want less dispersion or more distance... but this video was not designed to teach all the aspects of potential options for FLO with limited equipment and techniques.
have to disagree with you about the direction you flex the shaft to find the FLO. I had my woods and a new set of irons FLO'd last month by a person who has been a club fitter for 50 years, and works with pro golfers and he agreed with my opinion. Out of curiosity we set the spine at 3 O'clock and flexed the shafts in both directions and the results as to where the FLO of the shaft was were very different. So it does matter which direction you flex the shaft and this testing proved to me that setting the spine to 3 O'Clock for a righty and flexing to the left was most definitely giving a FALSE reading.
All the clubs of the world can be made techically perfect. The problem lies with the millions of golfers (even the hundreds in the PGA) that do not have a consistently perfect swing. Humans are not a nd never will be as near to perfection as any tool can be. One can FLO, Spine align any shaft as much as one wants, there will always ne the ''fluke'' effect of the human part of a golf swing. As perfect as the tool may be technically, the human swing will never be consistently perfect. This is why some days one shoots the game of his life and some other days, he'd been better going to the farm and spread manure...
I get the FLO and will use it but the spine alignment part is a waste of time. Just take the piece of tape with a line on it and, once you find the FLO, place it appropriately. No reason to even do the spine alignment because it had nothing to do with the FLO, in this case.
Fully aware and this is mentioned often. The reason, as stated in the video, was to show the difference between the two methods as there is confusion that they are the same. In the latter part of the video, I show the line of the spine aligned shaft as opposed to the FLO'd line.
@@XJSimulations Ahhhh, got it. Sorry about that. I really enjoyed the video and others I have watched and am looking forward to the "work" this winter to FLO all of my clubs.
I can just about guarantee it will make a HUGE difference in your game. Let me know how it works out when you get a chance to hit some balls.
i haven't seen anyone actually prove the benefits. i have seen that tested against each method there is no real benefit with good quality shafts. i don't waste the time or $$ for it.
To each their own, but I've never had a individual come back a say they did not see any improvement with a FLO'd shaft. I know I will not play without the shafts being FLO'd.
Why not just skip spine step and go straight to FLO
Thanks for watching. I have answered this question a few times. The only reason was to show the different results between the two methods. Spine alignment or spinning a shaft is not the correct way to locate the FLO of a shaft.