Conclave PvP-By nature, even further from the core game than raids Heavily restricted power usage Pretty much no modding Self-serving rewards that are completely useless and just unusable in the rest of the game Shows up in LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE HOTFIX Even smaller than the raid community
K-Sha Y'know all this hate towarfs conclave makes me wonder why I stopped playing. Like I generally had fun playing Conclave and their were quote a few people actively playing it.
people say it was so terrible bla bla yada yada, but like it or not it was end game content just like sorties. wether u wanna do it or not its up to you. bet yo as that you forgot this game even exist too lmao.
except they have Energize, so grind everyday. good riddance imo, getting what i want from Eidolons will be a lot more fun than the repetitive grind that raids are
I understand why people would disagree with the removal, don't get me wrong. But it is played by a neiche part of the players, not saying their concerns aren't valid, all I'm saying is it takes a lot of time end effort to acquire the right gear and experience (not mastery rank) to be good at raids and new players can be scared away by it.
Why tf do you think raids should be something meant for new players? It was always for dedicateed veterans and for clans who can coordinate well and take the right gear. Raids were one of very few end game missions in this game.
Yes and ? It's litterally end-game content ! Of course it's not for new players, that's the point. That's not to say that new players cannot do raids tho, one of my current raid group member started LoR when he was mr4 or 5 and newbies can still be carried through basic LoR It's just not interesting for people below a certain mastery rank and rightfully so
Landing crafts. Liset is the name of the starting landing craft. And only the Mantis drops from rare containers. I also happen to have the Mantis without ever having stepped into a raid at MR18.
Guywholikes goodmusic I'm at MR20, with well over 3000 hours in game, and have found a grand total of 7 rare containers outside of raids. If not for raids I'd still be 1 piece short for the mantis. If you want to be an extreme pedant then I'll admit that I misspoke by saying Lisets, but otherwise I believe my point still stands.
Don't take it so personally. I was simply pointing out that only one landing craft drops from these crates. I was also making a point that raids are completely unnecessary for getting it. Besides, you clearly have gotten at least one part outside raids, considering that rare Orokin containers are what carry the Avionics.
This is like trying to make sorties more new-player friendly. It's not supposed to be for new players, it's endgame content. Perhaps, however, they could make decent changes, as long as they kept nightmare raids hard.
I'm honestly fine with this decision. Raids were a fucking mess, and doing the entire raid just to get a shit arcane and having to wait an entire day for another shot at one is ridiculous so putting arcanes in the eidolon drop tables is fine. And dark sectors I can definitely say that it won't be like what they showed us forever. Remember how shitty the relic missions were when they first launched? They re did it and its much better. So dark sectors will change and so will the raids. I have hope for DE when it comes to their raids but right now they're just doing a recall
Explain one thing. Okay, arcanes are put into Plains of Eidolon. Fine. Dark Sectors reworked. Fine. Why does theese changes DEMANDS for raids to be shut down? There is NO REASON to shut them down, because even if they were unfamous, they were not a handicap, they were not blocking, slowing or preventing player's progression. There was just a little part of the community, maybe not so big, but they were here, and they had FUN with raids, and that won't do any good, but make that nieche of players, who are a part of raids-dedicated commumity, to leave the game, because the game have NOTHING ELSE to offer for those particular players. And as they says, the "raids will be removed temporarily". For how long, exactly? For another 3 years, like the Dark Sectors? No one in their right mind will wait so damn LONG for the thing that is THE ONE AND ONLY PART OF THE GAME, that person enjoy, they will LEAVE for the greater good, and even if there are only a very few of those people, it is not the valid arguement to toss Raids away, and spit in their face like that.
Ezergile Chimekazikura Because a high maintenance feature only a few autists who have a knack for standing still in a game about going fast play is not economical allocation of dev resources. Inb4 muh conclave Conclave only ever needs number tweaks, literally changing one variable in the weapon stats txt. Raids need to be recoded every time the shit fest breaks again. It really is fitting that the densest motherfuckers in this community are the people finding fun in standing on fucking pressure plates in a space ninja game and think this is good design.
Well, what about any endurance run, like, defense or survival endurance run, where literally You can go as Limbo to disable damage from outside the Cataclysm, trinity for energy regen, Nova for damage multiplier and mesa to spamm her ult and demolish anything, since the abilities actually can go trought the rift? Does that kind of gameplay differs in any sort from what You offer as a reason for raids to be shut down? No, it does not. And, for a fact, if that is the case, they first of all should remove defence missions. At all. Why is that does not happening? I'll answer. Because removing the defense missions won't benefit them in order to force PoE down the playerbase's throat.
Since you seem to lack any kind of reading comprehension, let me reiterate and let me be very fucking clear: Trials are simply NOT sustainable for DE as a company. It's not economic to have a code monkey assigned to the specific task of refixing the buggy mess trials is every time a mainline update changes the game significantly, especially if only a small percentage of people ever play them. Also stop strawmanning the fuck out of this argument. Defense missions are low maintenance missions, that a lot more people play than raids. Keeping them in the game takes literally no dev ressources at all. If you and your mery band of autism friends want to stand around in tubes or on defense objectives for hours on end, pressing one button over and over, be my guest. It's maybe the most efficient way of doing it. But you HAVE the option to move and play differently and you can still get far if you are good enough . In raids you don't have this option, standing around is core of the experience. There are 0 other options for completing the mission other than standing around. And let me be very fucking crystal clear again: Trials may be badly designed and don't fit with the games direction. However: The MAIN REASON for removing them is the absolute clusterfuck of game breaking bugs and high maintenance their shitty code causes and entails.
My two cents on this: first, the hate on Dark Sectors is a bit misplaced IMO. We gotta remember that it's still WIP. They said that during the devstream. This is still very susceptible to change based on feedback, which they've reiterated numerous times regarding most things in the game. Though the concept shown of Dark Sectors wasn't that intriguing to me, I am curious enough on how the community will react to this in terms of strategy. Yeah sure you could say that people will just spam a few frames (like both Chroma and Loki that you've brought up) but wouldn't it still open up a few more opportunities for experimentation? What I'm trying to say is that this has a potential to put some frames to the test other than the simulacrum. You want to see how your new Atlas build will scale off, why don't you try it out on Dark Sectors? But that is also an assumption on my part that DS will also scale higher or at the very least on par with other higher level content, such as sorties. I guess, we'll just have to wait since it's still in development. As such, I'm honestly not fully intrigued by it but I'm also trying not to quickly dismiss its potential either. Secondly, as for the raids/trials, I am saddened by the news and deeply worried that it might take the devs too much time to bring back the trials without losing the trust of the raid community and veteran players alike. But after reading the forums and watching some reactionary videos here on YT, I sort of understand (or try my best to) as to why they want to put the trials aside for the time being. Scott did say during the devstream that on a game's design stand point, he wanted to make it better. He saw a lot of the mistakes they've done on the designs of the trials and have seen the consequences of it, such as too much bugs plaguing it, the fact that there is a "specific" meta to make run trials efficiently, or that majority of the trials (referring to LoR) is just stepping on a plate. He did admit his short comings on this and said he was sorry. I think their intention is not to remove trials nor replace it with DS or the Eidolons completely. I think they just want to make trials better and live up to the concept of what a raid/trial should be (accessible to all and challenging to all). As for the arcanes being removed from trials and into Eidolons, I'm still not sure on whether they just wanted it to be accessible to the community or as a means to attract more players to their newer content. With the arcanes getting some buffs or tweaks with the latest patch, I think they intended it for both. I might be wrong, but that's the impression that I got. They don't want the Teralysts to be simply one-shotted and would also want to reward their players for the effort of hunting down 3 Eidolons now with arcanes. So I'm guessing that's why they're pushing the Eidolons as the "raids" right now. There are indeed more people having access to PoE to do Eidolon hunting and they do want the arcanes to be more accessible to the community (rather than being cornered to a specific group/market). That being said, these are just my opinions on those subject matter and mostly the impressions that I've just gathered from the community's reaction. I just hope that DE doesn't lose the trust of the community (especially the raid community). I for one love to to do the Trials and that I hope they get to release a proper statement to address this issue more thoroughly, such as a timeline and specific goals, either through a dedicated thread in the forums or either a prime time/dev stream (mind you that the last devstream might not have been enough time for them since they did present and discuss a lot of content). Lastly, I just hope that the next time they bring back Trials, they are far more challenging and accessible, that they haven't lost the raid community who can put the newly designed Trials through the gauntlet of their skills, and that better rewards are given (far more satisfying than the current arcanes we have).
El Duderino Thank. You. You just said everything I was thinking in a much better way than I ever could. It’s refreshing to see somebody at least trying to look on the bright side instead of instantly going “Oh ye FOKKIN DE FOKKIN NOB JOCKEYS”.
And there's also the fact that DS have nothing to do with raids and they only brought it up because someone made a UA-cam about it a few days prior cause they accidentally showed the star map. They were showing Dark Sectors to point out that even if it takes a while, it WILL eventually come back. No where did they say it was a replacement and even pointed out they wanted to refresh raids not replace them.
Actually there are more people that have access to the raids than the eidolons because you need a amp so shifting arcanes to eidolons doesn't solve the "problem" but I agree with most of the rest you said
Tbh i won't compare raids with eidolons. I like raids, they have puzzles and some complexity.I also like the eidolon fights but you just need someone to keep lures alive and tons of damage. It's "hard" only from gear perspective.
People want hard content with good rewards > De makes eidolons > Eidolons are neither Hard and don't have good rewards. The new 3 -lyst hunt is boring shit. Remember capturing Teralyst? So now you can do that for 40 minutes. DE is basically saying "fuck you" right in my face tbh
They specifically said Dark sectors would not be a replacement for Trials. The instant they loaded up the darksectors for demonstration. Yes, they made comparisons between the 2 forms of gameplay, but that was, as you said, to attempt to convince players that they were actively considering Trial gameplay. "We know you're worried this'll be just like what happened to Dark sectors. So watch us constantly talk about them, and show that we're considering how they should be re-implemented even when talking about the new Dark sectors" Additionally, you make the point that the new Dark Sectors is just boring stand-on-the-button all over again. But as Rebecca started up the dark sectors, they said to her "You're playing this the exact way we were hoping players wouldn't", and right before the very clip you bring up, right before "Deryll is probably watching with a glass of scotch", they say this isn't exactly the design they want. It's almost like they were scrambling to try and calm so many of the people that were adamantly refusing to accept any change, and thus ended up not giving enough time to making a proper explanation to the people who patiently waited for one. They made a mistake. Oh no. It's almost like they're human-beings.
I've been playing since March of 2013 or so and i am a Master Founder, and have not played raids once. I don't care about getting a 'perfect' squad, being one shotted if you make one mistake, spending all my resources on maxing mods specifically for this, for the sheer goal of getting arcanes to sell for plat. Not to say if you like raids you are wrong, i just don't see the point of Raids at all, when most of the game is not Raids, which is in a worse disrepair and neglect than Raids are. Like helmets with stat bonuses. They were lazy for removing them, full stop. They say players don't like stats on helmets, but instead of giving us the option to remove the stats, or just make non stat versions, they remove them AND give us the option to remove the stats. fucking, KEK.
On the plat note, it's not as if it's hard to make nowadays. I think a lot of people are just pissed that they won't be able to make obscene amounts of plat in one sale now.
You are not making plat, you are trading items for platinum someone at some point purchased with real money. We need a way to actually earn plat by playing the game, like selling prime parts to darvo for 1-2p each.
+Darthmufin Well, there is the 40 plat all new players have, so there's a tiny, tiny percentage that isn't paid for. But I do get what you mean. I was just addressing one of the things people seem to think is an argument for why raids should stay.
Chips Light im a early veteran (nova release) and aside from trying a raid once and spending a week attempting to start another i just gave up on them completely. Also i never heard of the raid bus. This is the first time for me
also veteran never heard for this site the blame is on them ahahahahahah like "looks for raid... oh sorry dude experts only" and thats it no mention of "hey theres this site were ppl can help you get into raids" they dig this grave fck them
We have dedicated people taking people on raids and explaining raids from start to end on voice everyday. There is absolutely no gear requirement and it's one of our most basic rules that people can't ask for MR or raid proficiency when recruiting on our server which at 15,000 stands as one of the biggest warframe discord servers in existence. Sound toxic?
I just think it's such a massive slap in the face to RSB, a community of volunteers to help teach newcomers, they don't get any money for giving up their free time to do this, I can't think of many games so fortunate enough to have a proper teaching server, especially for what many see as extremely daunting content. and DE just threw them under their own bus, to re-purpose rewards and shoving us into the tedium that is PoE.
LMAO its funny cause conclave community is on their toes right now. You keep saying 20 people but more then 20 people play Raids and more then 20 people play conclave. Them killing a "low traffic mode" is just the start. It will start with raids, then PVP and god knows after that.
the difference is that conclave doesnt break with every update or hotfix, its much easier to maintain being a separate system all together, most of the conclave fixes are usually just stat changes for conclave weapons or frame abilites, while jordas and lor constantly become buggy mes 2: electronic spaghetti code boogaloo
Card Master thank you! I think ppl loved raid so much only because they were 8 frames squads. I think de should make some kind of 8 squad sorties but enemys are much more powerful
Not as much as raids. IMO Eidolons are fun if you have at least decent team. They actually are sth different than doing relics and farming other shiet.
I think the only reason people are up in arms is that they won't be able to gauge others for plat once arcanes are easily accessible to all. It's not like they scrapped the co-op aspect of the game.
The hate on DE right now is completely justified especially since Darksectors changes looks completely bare bones at best and even then won't even have much changes on how clan and Alliences interact with each other like back then with Rails, they only used this as a "We're Sorry" excuse Heck I could argue that old Darksectors is even better then this. Plus the Reason Raids haven't been getting known is because DE hasn't promoted Raids in any shape of form to begin with so it's entirely on their fault even with the help of UA-camrs. *Now I wonder if Conclave will receive the same amount of Love if this happened to it*
I don't think conclave needs love since ive played it and became a sea salt in a game that has a great community. BUT Id really like to see some love for lunaro instead.
No raids are compeltly broken. Trying to push the spore in Jordas was getting worst and worst with every new patch. The raids were utter gargabe even if they had no bugs at all.
Tiramisu #1P4PGOAT It's irrelevant because that's expected especially now That fault is on DE for not focusing on bug fixes that actually improve the raid experience. This also on time period of 2 to 3 years were they had ample time and resources for fixing raid bugs.
Daynick101 it is relevant that's why they are planning to completely remove the raids so that they can make it better and honestly i have no incentives to join raids other than arcane which gets irritating, they should look at World of warcraft to show how raid rewards are done
JV and LOR are dogshit poorly designed unfun missions , I don't get why people are upset , no one fucking played raids except for a select few , it made no sense for DE to spend resources for a dead game mode
honestly, DE never wins. This is mostly their fault for adding so much shit without giving themselves time to fix, but seriously. I remember when everyone was super hyped for the plains, why? Because open world is interesting apparently. I can imagine that they worked hard on the plains and it would be kind of stupid to not do anything with it. If the had just left the plains as is after the first update, people would complain. If they keep updating it, people will complain. I'm not a fan of the plains, but this shift in attitude towards the plains seems kind of ridiculous.
HYBRIDZ HQ i totally agree, now all de gets is shit no matter what they do, no matter who they try to please b it veterans or newbies they get a shitstorm. They are a small as hell dev team working their asses off making THEIR game. People get so focused on rushing to get everything they suck the fcking life out of it. If played for 3 years almost now and i still take my time, i dont have everything and i play this game like crazy. I play for fun not to own everything and it irritates me to no end when everyone joins on the DE always nerfs or makes their game less fun bandwagon. Just for once can i go 5 minutes on a forum without someone giving DE shit, its just stupidly bad. Just remember people this game should have never made it this far but it did and they did it because of the community. So dont ruin the game by treating the devs like shit who try their best to make the game fun and engaging. Rant ovah!
The problem is not that they're updating the Plains, but that they're going out of their way to make people play there, all if this without considering that low-mid end PCs Struggle on the plains, so they're barely an option.
Want an Amp that's not Trash? Go to the plains. Want Operator Armor and don't have the Platinum to buy it? Farm Standing for the Quills and a lot of resources from the Plains. Operator Arcanes? To the plains. Want a Zaw? Farm the plains, no alternatives. Zaw Arcanes? Heard of the Plains? Prime Unvaulting of the super expensive and highly requested Ember Prime, Frost Prime (Who admitedly is easy enough to get thanks to Twitch Prime), the Master Race itself Loki Prime, and all of their weapons? Know a nice place to put the relics for them? In the plains, only in the plains, unless you're up to go for an even lower RNG Chance and buy our Relic Lootboxes, that aren't even likely to give you what you need. If your PC can't take the plains, feel free to drop 60 bucks to get our Vault access. You get Arcanes on raids? Can't have that, raids are gone, farm them in the Plains. Riven Transmutation, the feature you've been asking for months since the inclusion of Rivens? To the plains, and only if you take down the 3 Eidolons.
There is a point in removing them. Newer players will need countless hours just to be accepted in a squad to do LoR. I get what DE is making. Arcanes for every1 not just veterans
Please Kill Me you do know that new arcanes drop from eidolons which still require lots of hours because you need operator form and sayas vigil completed
Issue is that raiding is supposed to be an end game activity and arcanes should be exotic loot, trying to adapt late game content for newer players makes no actual sense
The same can be said for people wishing to farm the new Eidolons as part of an efficient squad setup, not just effective or even casual runs. Except LoR is gated by experience to be efficient, while Eidolon farming is gated behind 2 cinematic quests, 5 Quill ranks and a plethora of Focus nodes to be efficient. This isn't to say you can't just rock up to a Hydrolist fight with just a Mote amp and a Vauban but the same can be said for raids. Recruit chat is only willing to take experienced raid players just like they'll only be taking experienced Eidolon farmers, now so more than ever there is actual fail conditions to the new Eidolons. The use of Efficient over Effective and other such words cannot be overstated. Recruit is looking for efficiency unless plainly stated otherwise.
My opinion: make a votation to see what the community wants. Removing Trials might have a bigger impact in the game than DE expects. And after I read you comments it's true. Farming eidolons to get arcanes is a mid-end game activity also. So what's the point of removing LoR then if newer will still need a lot of hours (and quests) just to get a arcane. That's a very difficult call to make.
Except you don't need that much time to start raids. The raids aren't hard, you just need to know the strategy and have good coordination. That was the beauty of them - it was mostly teamwork, not gearcheck. There were plenty newbies that started raiding through WFRSB when they didn't have the best gear.
It's a dev build that has been "in the works" for 3 years and has basically nothing to show for that time, there were people that loved the old dark sector stuff that waited 3 years for no news only to receive a small showing of a glorified survival mode a time limit. It's understandable for them to be angry about it.
That's a really narrow minded viewpoint. They said during the stream that this is one of many iterations of the Dark Sectors, and it is very, very early.
Complaining that DE doesn't listen after the temporary removal of a feature nobody likes and then completely ignoring the reworks of existing Frames people have been asking for for over a year and the addition of Prime Vault accessory packs. not entitled at all
>temporary removal >He doesn't remember that Dark Sectors were put on "temporary" removal on MARCH 19TH, 2015 >feature nobody likes >he doesn't recognize that RSB's discord membership is in the hundreds upon THOUSANDS >he thinks DE listens to the community >he doesn't realize that it practically takes for the forums and reddit to burn down before DE does a thing, usually MONTHS after the request was made
Dixie Normous don't mind this type of guy... he/she thinks just because they don't like raids, no body else like raids. Just let this kinda guy alone, we should try to enjoy the game as long as we could before... you know...
And is there something wrong with that? Also what about Venus? *_Soon™_* we'll get Venus, and *_Digital Extremes™_* said you'll need the map to get around, hinting that there will be no syndicate to lead you.
I wouldnt jump straight into the «hate darksectors» train. They said it's very much WIP and, therefore, very unpolished. I do think it's important to at least express that the dark sector's current design is not fun and flawed, but we are also not dealing with the final product. Anyways, any attempt at creating and polishing more end game content I find welcoming, since the entire community is hungry for it. As to raids being replaced with dark sectors, well... yeah, definetly, but I'm not entirely against it. Raids are a complex mission type and even though I never felt any desire to play it, from the raid content creators I watch it's very easy to see how flawed it's design is as well. The puzzles were indeed boring and sometimes anoying, and it felt out of place in a game like Warframe. It's important end game content isnt only challenging but also fun, and raids were far from it. Hell, the only thing got me to watch raid videos was to see the ridiculous challenges the players tried (like «LOR with fishing spears»), not to watch the actual gameplay and mechanics. Player engagement in raids is low as well, you can observe it ingame. Some clans may be dedicated to it, but again, most of them are doing it because there's nothing else to do, which is exactly what dark sectors is meant to fix. Dont entirely believe they are forcing POE down our throats either. The plains werent shipped with all of its content, more eidolons were supposed to be shipped with it as well as the ghouls. These updates are pretty much assets in development at the time POE got released (Im not taking their word for it, they showed the new eidolons and ghouls early models in devstreams around that time, so its fair to assume the facts check out).
Being a somewhat newer player, I find it a shame that I wasn't ever able to try out these raids. edit: funny how dark sectors are now just literally endless missions of vs. infestation with a slightly higher exp and drop rate on the planet and nothing else these days. I genuinely wonder what it would have been like to play warframe back when people were actually excited for the updates.
I mean, yeah, the solution to arcanes is to put them into the Planes. I might actually be able to see one in my lifetime if they do things that way. Like, raid arcanes are so impossible to come by that I just wrote them off as an irrelevant relic from a bygone era.
The entitlement in this video, my god. They're not disabling raids because of a few bug fixes, they clearly say it's because they wanna do a serious overhaul. Besides, no one outside of some little echo-chamber that apparently thinks it's -famous- does those raids in the first place. And what the fuck kinda argument is "Well conclave is bad too!", calling it unbalanced even though everyone in the game has relatively simple access to the same gear for it. What do you honestly wanna achieve with that? Do you want them to just disable the conclave? Do you expect them to go "Oh, that part of our game stinks, so I guess we *won't* flush away this massive turd afterall". Seriously, this is why people hate raid communities.
Welcome to the problem with raids in any game. It's the most entitled, elitist and obsessive miniscule little fraction of the community that can't realize that they aren't even close to a note-worthy percentage of players, just because they never do anything else.
Glaticcow because conclave doesn't need to be fixed after every small update. If raids are not getting fixed anymore they will eventually reach a point of inaccessiblity just as if they remove them. However, removing them also lowers the stress from the servers.
Glaticcow how exactly do you figure that Conclave has less activity and higher upkeep? Have you seem some numbers that the rest of us haven't? Or are you simply pulling this out of your ass? They clearly don't want the current form of raids to be part of their game in any way or shape, and if they keep it in people will keep whining for fixes to a part of the game that DE, quite frankly, *doesn't want in their game*
This shit is honestly infuriating! They literally just buffed over a hundred weapons, added brand new Eidolon content, buffed frames, added new vehicles and are adding new pets to the game and all people can do is BITCH about a single game mode being removed that NO ONE PLAYED! Show some fucking appreciation people! Removing raids is disheartening yes, but actively insulting DE, one of the single most active developers in the industry in terms of listening to their damn community and who actively tries to make the game more fun for the majority of people is childish and is spoiled to the EXTREME! Biting that hand that feeds you is not a positive thing! Grow the fuck up!
I see you like eidolon hunting, lets say eidolon hunting got "temporarily" removed for a year or two. Thats exactly what people that raid experience right now. And i cannot praise DE for shoving the plains into our face basically forcing us to go there. The new eidolons are nowhere near the replacement for trials because they require 0 teamwork (can even be done solo). Also absolutely no resources were invested into trials at all, at least leave them in the bugged state they are
Gasnix then why were none of the gamebreaking bugs fixed (litterally not a single one) for over 2 years? Why hasnt a single hotfix even mentioned trials in any major way for over the same 2 years? I honestly do not understand what they meant by that. Server uptime is not an issue since warframe is P2P.
This may just be a theory kinda but you can watch him roll up his sleeves while talking and iv'e seen people do this before while being nervous or lying.
Well, the issue about raids is that at the same time they're considered endgame and tend to drive away most regular and even veterans and they're actually very easy, even in Nightmare mode. It is quite a mess. To be honest, I think they should embrace the endgame vibe and be made much harder than the cakewalk is it at the moment. As for DE's actions, it's up to debate. It's clear they didn't take the whole 3 years since they were taken down to be reworked but that it was a possibly recent work. I see that as an effort to show the Raiding community that yes, they can and will bring Raids back once they figure out what to do with it, and if DE gets motivated, shouldn't take nearly as long as it did for Dark Sectors. But that's just speculation...
Seriously? After the massive amount of gun buffs and frame balances people have been asking for, on top of postponing damage 3.0 after player feedback, they "don't listen to you" because they're looking to improve an aspect of the game that the majority of players had nothing to do with? Outside of a few nitpicky things, where exactly are they ignoring you?
I've typed this comment once, but then deleted it to refine it some more. TL;DR: Raids should be removed. They're not engaging. They require certain things that puts a metaphorical barrier to even do the raid, which makes it difficult for those who barely communicate (or have friends) to get their hands on Arcanes. They're still buggy and very poor in rewarding the time spent. The teams feel forced, and if you try to make them "entertaining", you only waste energy pads for the sake of giving entertainment. They're old and outdated. Those complaining about the removal are the same who glitch-run the very raids they're defending, yet do not disclose how certain bugs or glitches are even done (To this very day). Many of which break the rules of the game by using numerous accounts to obtain multiple arcanes in a single day (when, this very idea DE has is attempting to remove that arcane limiter). This move is going to make Arcane-gathering more engaging, new missions for players to faff about in, and give Focus a greater purpose (because, let's be real, after a few upgrades you were tearing down the first Eidolon left and right). The removal of the raids are required, deal with it community - please. =w= Didn't read the TL;DR? ... Have fun reading. The individuals who are bitching about the raid usually have that type of "reputation" behind their back. I'm looking at specific "top clans" and the RSB... Hell, include 80%+ of the players who have "Dash Dash" in their name (you know *exactly* who, or what kind of people, I'm talking about). There are channels out there that do 8-[Frame Here] videos because the raids themselves have lost popularity (most likely talking about "Zanagoth"). Sure, it's entertaining to see 8 Octavias or 8 Nidus players go through a raid - but playing the actual raid *yourself* is tedious and boring. And no, I'm not saying the Dark Sectors or Eidolons themselves are a perfect replacement for a way to gain arcanes - but to get to the point of gaining them is *more feasible* than the raids themselves. Getting a public group for JV is almost as difficult as randomly queuing up for Hydron and getting 4 Corrosive Projections in the team... You're lucky to ever see it happen. While people behind the RSB treat new players like they're nothing but children in an elementary school - other clans abuse glitches that (even for *months* - mind you) don't *report* how the bug is done and what steps they take. Hell, to this day there are *secret ways* some clans get through raids in "record times" that haven't been detailed properly on the internet. Where are their bans or punishments for completing the raid in under 15 minutes? Wait, they're good..? What about those in under 6 or 7?... When JV requires *guaranteed* 5 minutes to beat one of their stages. Where's the fun? I'm sorry "Zanagoth" (Don't even recall a video of yours - yet I'm an extremely avid warframe player) - but your content doesn't get spoken about through the chat of the game, or even my discord channels. I've probably seen some videos though. However, people talk about "Mogamu" because his content is relevant to what people find enjoyable at the time of patches. People talk about "MCGamerCZ" because he discusses builds for numerous situations that can be used across the star chart. "-N00blShowtek-" falls into that category too... as well as that bloody potato himself >w>. But nobody in this game goes "Man, let's go have fun in Jordas Verdict!" ... No. I'm a great fan of archwing (no matter how dull or empty the weapon variety and abilities are), and I love the movement, melee, explosions and what-not. But even being, probably, the biggest fan of archwing flying/melee'ing - I do not enjoy JV. Being a fan of coordination and team-play games/actions (Still love you TERA, even though I've not touched ya in a long time) - I do not enjoy the repetitive required-nature of LOR. Your channel probably consists of releasing entertaining videos of the raid (or challenges) - but you're trying to put entertainment into something I've never heard being talked about in a "fun" way. Raids themselves are like elementary schools to literal kids... I guess I could see why the RSB has to treat them the same way. And no, I have not gone to the RSB myself nor attempted it. I had numerous other friends go into the bus and tell me their stories of the channel/runs themselves. From the "requirements" needed to be someone of teaching-authority for JV (I mean, seriously guys? I could fucking teach the raid probably better than 99% of the teachers in that damn channel with the tales I've been told), to the glitches/exploits they use - I don't sense any "fun" there... so there's a funny, I guess slightly coincidental, play-on word when it comes to saying "bus" from RSB. Also, here's a grueling challenge. Near-Impossible challenge: puu.sh/zlm4l/0e47ea7658.txt - For those wishing to beat an ultimate challenge. I guess what I'm saying is... to everyone that *actually* cares about the raid - suck it up. It's years old, with exploits the community dare not to say out loud or inform the dev's about, with people who break the rules of the game itself by using multiple accounts to get arcanes, that require an unintentionally difficult way of being accepted into learning - teaching - or being recognized by the raid and its "communities", with a reward that 97 times out of 100 usually sucks. When I (and many others) could gain platinum through farming simple relics with missions that are 5x less strenuous, or farm a mod you literally could sit in a room and press one button for - for 10-15 minutes. For those who don't do it for the platinum gain, and wish for the arcanes that don't suck (like Arcane Energize, Guardian, Barrier and Aegis)... I understand your boring struggles. 29 JV Runs and only 2 Arcane Energize... 15-20 hours for something I wanted faster. This is what DE is trying to fix. They're adding in Arcanes to more entertaining places. They're trying to stop the barrier that exists when it comes to raids (and if you don't know the barrier I'm talking about, you didn't play solo or dared to communicate with your clan). This removal is required. When going out into the plains and mining random ores - trying to perfectly follow a line around a blue gem - is more entertaining than a raid (or "Trial") ... It needs to be removed. When fighting an upgraded Eidolon feels more challenging and is even harder than the raid itself (and more demanding of attention and timing), it needs to be removed. I want a raid to be something that challenges my ass to the point of hating it harder than a boss in Dark souls beating me into the dirt 50 times. I want it to reward me with something that puts not only *1* arcane to my name, but either 10+ of them or something even *greater* than arcanes. I want it to be something that has no glitches, that - when completed - actually gives a sense of accomplishment and a title/badge that can actually be recognized as "wow, you did that?". Not some fancy shoulder-light that you add to every frame because nobody's got something better to put there anyways. And even with me typing all of this, there are bound to be those who still think the damn raids should not be touched. To you - I say go fish. No, literally, go to the plains and fish. Fishing is more entertaining than the raid - and you literally sit there, throw a dye, throw bait and pharoma, and wait. Or go open relics. Opening intact relics and getting prime junk feels more valuable than getting another *ARCANE ARACHNE* ... out of all the arcanes they buffed, why didn't they just make that damn arcane give 400%+ more weapon damage on wall latch or something? If those of you who read this paragraph don't believe me, simply do this - mute your discord, game, whatever you communicate to your teammates through - and do another raid. You won't admit it to me, but go on and ask yourself if this feels fun. Then - do the same when fighting an Eidolon, or mining, or fishing. Then - when you mine or fish, go talk to the same friends about the same shit you talk about during a raid. You'll find that the most entertaining part about doing the raid wasn't the raid itself or the rewards (95% of the time), but it was the people you talked to - or the music/podcast you listened to instead. You (just like me) did the raid as a chore and nothing more. If you still feel strongly about the raid being removed, then by all means - explain why it should stay. I'd love to hear why it's fun, engaging, and rewarding to not only "veterans" - but new players alike. .u.
Oh, god..remember when sorties replaced the void and void keys where made? Yeah,I do that was a nightmare, cause sorties seemed like a interesting idea,til It turned out they are just glorified dice rolls for some "Meh" stuff. And void keys are just a way so,you can't make a key turn into 50 warframe parts.
In any game I think it's preferable to slow down bug-fixing of niche content if you have to (unless something literally prevents it from working) to minimize upkeep than removing it. People are smart enough to work around bugs if they crop up. Since you don't advertise the content anyway it's unlikely new players will even know it exists until long after they start playing so it's unlikely to make your game look bad. Think of it like this: 1- You remove the content. The small, but active and vocal community that plays that content flames you in forums and social media, making you look like a bunch of nazis to potential new players, regardless of how many people are actually talking about it and whatever good intentions you may have. Also it sets a precedent that nobody can be too attached to a piece of content because it's likely to be removed if it becomes unpopular. 2- You greatly reduce upkeep on the content. The content's community may voice out displeasure at bugs that take forever to get fixed or never are, but invariably work around them as long as they don't completely break the content. They aren't as vocal about it so it doesn't make you look as bad, and there's no precedent that a piece of content may be removed for unpopularity. You accomplish a very similar goal with the second option as far as preventing the niche content from taking dev time away from popular and new content, while not killing a part of your game's community and not looking like bags of dicks.
BUT THE POINT IS ARCANES SHOULDNT BE FOR EVERYONE. Arcanes are an ENDGAME or rather LATEGAME reward. The raids are a lategame mission by doing this you are limiting the amount of lategame options for more experienced players. Basically what im getting at is arcanes SHOULD NOT be more accessible to new players. If all the latwgame rewards are more accessible to everyone then theres no incentive for experienced players to get them. Everyone will have them so theres also no point in selling them etc etc. 2017 was a GREAT year for DE but they are NOT starting 2018 well at all. It feels like they are doing the exact opposite of everything they should be doing.
I do sorties, endless missions, high-level index, eidolons and whatever else passes for endgame in WF. I've never been able to do a raid, either because no one wants to take on players inexperienced in raids or because you need a large clan/friends to do them. Unless you fell into those two previous categories, or were lucky enough to find someone to teach you raids, then you didn't have arcanes. They weren't inaccessible because they were endgame rewards, they were inaccessible because raids were inaccessible for a lot of players. This is also all going on the idea that arcanes are worth all that hassle. Which outside of plat value, they really aren't.
The raid community was a joke. They were no life players who would rather spend 10 hiurs a day in the trade chat than actually play the game... Hence why they would rather spend 3-4 hours EVERY day to play broken boring raids only to get a chance at an arcane that they will resell at jacked up prices. Good riddance for both raids and the raid community.
No you will never convince me that standing on pressure plates and pusing a buggy spore is good gameplay. Maybe you're in the miniroty of autistic players who enjoy standing on pressure plates but that makes you a VERY small miniroty. It still don't belive you would pay raids if they didn't have arcanes. Arcanes(platinum) are the ONLY reason you played those boring broken raids and don't try to bullshit me.
Shehroz Farooq indeed... that guy used the word autistic without truly know the meaning of the word at all. What a cruel, heartless, and brainless person with no emphaty.
Tiramisu #1P4PGOAT Same. I attempted raids for a week and then gave up. The amount of time spent on something so dull to get something kinda cool or plain out shit, killed my efforts to play it further. True the game is all grind, but when the grind is near impossible and bugs literally make all your time spent go away in an instant or people leave, the raid experience is trash.
Rahetalius is Right about warframe’s raid, but Destiny 2 has gotten a whole lot better while the parasite (white knights) of warframe have grown large since February of 2019.
I actually like the concept of Dark Sectors but I think they need more than "Kill everything while defending the point" because that will get dull and require DPS setups. I'm sure Spore Saryn and Chromatic Excal will absolutely dominate maybe Hydroid and Nova, too. But they should really put in more objectives. Maybe not exactly mobile defense because that being random could give some ones an auto disadvantage but throw in reinforced targets to capture/assassinate and mini bosses. And they didn't talk about the rewards. That's going to be the most important thing. Dark Sectors are gonna have to be worth doing. That being said, they are not a replacement for Raids and I hope DE doesn't think they are. Trails needs to be come back, and it should not take 3 years for their return. Other than that, Dark Sectors do look cool and I think they could be a lot of funs if done right. Whether or not DE does that...
I also find it funny they used the idea of Dark Sectors to distract/sweeten the deal for players in terms of and end game type gamemode, but all the gameplay shown has very little to do with the original concept of Dark Sectors, the name has changed TWICE to something that isn't related to Dark Sectors, and the rewards are "useless but fun" mods that take up a valuable slot in most cases and valuable capacity in all cases. Seems like they just killed it as a way to market their new trash game mode.
I liked the raids. It took me awhile to learn them as a solo player but since there was room for 8 people in a squad, some veterans wouldnt mind having a new player with them to learn how to do the mission. It wont be the same for the eidolons since you only are 4 people and people want to fully optimize speedrunning strats. Another thing i want to add is that the raids only could be done 1 time per day so ofcourse there wont be as many people doing them. Im confident there would be more people doing them and redoing them if there was no daily limit.
1% of the WF players play the raids regularly yet they are making an outcry like it has completley destroyed the game for everyone. It is a pretty good reason why they removed the raids you know. Its ok to be disapointed but dont make it seem like DE is the bad guys, they are realy doing what they think is best for THEIR game
well we can, you are not being forced to play warframe. I for one didnt care about raids at all, and I know I am not the only one feeling like this, so I am excited about this change. Maybe it will be something actually bearable this time, sounds like fun
It is true DE are the owners of Warframe but the fact of the matter is they would not and still wouldn't have a game without the support of the community. How many other games can you think of that ask players to pay $60 and up to support the game every few months for some untradeable cape? And while there are certainly those that take it too far the attitude the community has developed is consequence of DE's past actions. Meaning DE has undeniably hurt the game in the past in pursuit of what's "best" by a company whose main priority is to make money.
Seymour Wang warframe is In a good place, raids are outdated and they are probably going to be updating them while they are gone. If you want to talk about bad company’s that actually rip you off go play destiny 2 with bungle
Let’s be real here im been playing warframe for 4 years now (not constantly but is still one of my favorite games) and i have only play raids twice(LoR and JV) and it was one of the most buggiest and tedious task to complete in those times i got the luck to have a veteran to teach us but when the most efficient way to win is staying in a place spamming abilities not requiring not knowing nor abilityto complete them, i don't think it was something i wanted to repeat, and for most of my friends that still were doing them, the only reason they told me they still do it was because of the Ludacris prices of arcanes (on that time) and the power they can give. and common man even if many people say about how the RBS was so famous and known i have never heard of them not even once, and to state they can’t be trust by showing a mistake of 4 years is really not the best way to prove your point. They can no longer support trails that break every 2 hotfixes, and that is more than enough reason to shut them down while they try to rework them. And at last of course they want to promote their last content, they are putting all in it to advertise more the game and bring more people in, making the game grow more and more and giving them the time and money to bring new things to the table (like new trials or a really good kind of end game), they advertising PoE it’s a way to adapt people to the new kind of content they plan to add to the game
I kind of like the idea of them moving arcanes to somewhere else, but completely removing raids/trials is completely asinine. The fact that they even stated “The raid community is very passionate” or however they said it, and still want to go through with this just looks like they don’t give a shit about us.
>DE *temporarily* removes part of the game to make it better. >DE releases a ton of buffs and balances people have been asking for for ages. "They don't care about us". I don't follow. Are they supposed to fit every single decision around 5% of game content and the small amount of players who still play it?
One thing they filed to mention in that devstream, that Tactical Potato covered in a video a day or so prior, they intend to put the arcanes onto the teralyst... where's the issue??? Still got your speed runs.. still got the ability to carry unskilled players threw it.. Soooo whats the problem?
Sir George Warframes been dying I saw a recent vid that said how warframe has 26 million registered useders yet the avg player base has not pass 33k recently, the highest it got was when PoE came out and that was only 100k.
I will point a lot of errors and misinformation in this video. I do not think that this false information as given with a bad intention but it is needed to be pointed. 1- You need to kill to progress in Dark Sector (it is hard to understand why this user didn't know that, it was said 3 times during the devstream, I just saw that). 2- The second point of the interpretation is just a dumb. The only reason for that to be done was in order to relieve the stress on the market for arcanes (which has more sense than let it to Raids), which has a more active community and goes more in sink with the whole game mechanics (which you would like it or not, but that's not the point, neither what *they want for their game* ). 3- Conclave is balanced (as balanced as a PvP game can be, at least). I've seen new players go up to the leaderboards with MK1 weapons... so... I don't know. The other half of this... "accusation" of yours is that the kind of work that Conclave gives (which are only stats) and the ones the gamebraking bugs that Trials have... Don't do a false comparison, please. Also, Conclave is one of the places where new players go, so... No... not the same perspective. 4- You clearly don't know a shit about game engine, programming or anything related... If they are not going to give support to an old system that has an "economy" related, it is needed to be shut down, and the changes aren't so easy or are you those kinds of person that thinks that a company who survives in a fair Free2Play model don't do changes in a buggy system as fast just because they want to fuck their player base? You didn't think that DE gets 's more benefits leaving the system as it is, with sets of arcane so high that "new players" will be forced to play platinum to get them? You think they will win more money not forcing new players to play a gamemode that is boring as shit (because for almost all the community who isn't Raid based, thinks that Trials are boring as fuck) instead of buying it with platinum? Maaan... you are toxic as hell or you didn't think that much xD 5- They especially said that they don't want to take that much time like what happened with Dark Sectors and that the new technology developed on PoE permits a Warframe to have a dungeon-ike system. Why will they lie in something that they proved they have improved? The changes are going faster than they did (and this isn't an AAA company), and you can see it on Gaara and the new reworked Warframe, which has been modified after hearing what the community said. One thing is to being critic, and another to being toxic.
If I understood currently during Devstreams, the orbs in Dark Sectors are going to work somehow like "soul consumer" In CoD Zombies (you need to kill enemies to fill the orb with souls to unlock another orb) - and also every later segment is supposed to have some modifier like "headshots only". Das all I wanted to say, probably not relevant and not needed.
Personally im glad raid is dying it needs to. My experiences with raids specifically the raid community where terrible. Some of thee most toxic players in the game are the raid community. They are an inclusive group who bitched and complained if you didn't play the way they wanted you to play with the frame they wanted you to play or your kicked. Also now that arcanes are being moved to eidolions expect a major price drop on something that is needed for late game content. There are more people hunting eidolions then running raids. The only reason this small group is getting upset is they lost there social circle and there corner on the arcane market. Time to cut the bad fruit from the tree and let something new grow. Is it dark sectors. NO its not. Is it hunting eidolions. As it is no not yet but the potential is there. The future will tell its there game there decision we just play and offer are suggestions its up to them to make the decisions don't like it go play an EA or 2K game see how much they care about the community. Me i'll be having fun playing warframe for a few more years whatever DE decides to do.
I wouldn't mind the fact that they are removing raids, however I'm pretty annoyed that they also made the conclusion that teamplay-focused co-operative gamemodes is not the way to go. I loved LoR because it encouraged coordination and communication over the classic tank+dps mentality. It had some nice puzzles and in the end it had a more complicated bossfight where you had to dodge heavy damage artilleries while trying to figure out door locks. The fact that DE wants to support braindead powercreeps over anything fun is disappointing. Let's not even talk about how they think a glorified survival is more fun than a conclaive-styled invasion.
Honestly raids where so buggy and frustrating especially on console. So losing them wont be a big issue. Also the fact i dont have to spend 250 plat for a single arcane will be good and its not like the eidolons are hard (currently talking about the first one) me and my friend can pretty much kill a few a night duo style. And considering its available almost right away, doesn't take forever or some bs teamwork, is great. The only issue is the raid was a good source for credits. And its about time the arcane market crashed
If the Raids WERE well-designed, I'd be annoyed too. But even back when I did Raids every day, they were not a fun or enjoyable thing -no less of a grind or chore than 'maxing Focus'. You had a selection between 4-5 frames you HAD to have, then run around and do it all as fast as possible, whoop de doo. This is not me saying that I'm happy about Raids going away (even from a market standpoint this is going to be HELL) -this is me saying that Raids were never this 'masterpiece' of Warframe. If they need to remove them for a year to rework them (though I fear they will force Operator mode into them because why the hell not shoehorn this gimmick in as well) to make them more flexible and adaptive, so be it. Personally, I'd prefer a Sortie-like Raid. And before you harp on it; think of a Raid that occurs in 3-5 stages and each stage is randomly chosen from a pool. It might have a Hijack part, it might not. It might have a defence, or it might have a Spy section. Force people to diversify their builds and learn to do things a little bit outside their comfort zone.
??? 1)Yes, conclave also doesn't fit with the game. This isn't much of an argument to keep either. 2)They're not shutting it off to bugfix, they're shutting it off because it was stuff that hardly 1% of players actively played AND required constant bugfixing to keep those players happy 3)Yes, rotting. It is mildly funny to watch zanagoth kill the big boss guy with fishing spears or 8x one frame. This is mostly due to the video editing and his own entertaining. I feel like you're strawmanning their statements a little here. I get it if you miss the trials, but would you honestly not be upset if they just took away arcanes and ignored them in terms of bugfixes instead? Business decisions can be made in favor of a small, dedicated group. They can't ALL be.
Personally never touched the raids, I tried it once but I hate raids in a lot of mmos, vindictus and Dragon nest had alright ones, I always wanted to have the freedom to use things like Arcane arachne but it was locked behind annoying raids, I refuse to do archwing and the amount of time it takes to learn the raids is bothersome. It's nice that the teralysts can drop them because it let's me try stupid combos, as much as I dislike teralysts, it's a lot better than raids.
I still want to know why conclave exists. I've tried many a time to play it, but I usually quit from never actually finding a group of people playing the mode. Could they just remove conclave and lunaro please?
I agree that raids shouldn't be taken out. But THEM SHOWING DARK SECTORS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RAIDS. IT IS NOT REPLACING RAIDS. The only reason they brought it up is because someone saw it on the star map in the last stream and made a whole you tube video and in that video he brought up the similarities between them saying DS would be back and it taking 3 yrs so don't expect raids back for 3 yrs. So after that video they felt obligated to show the progress on Dark Sectors. The only similarities is that they are saying it will come back but we don't know when. They clearly stated they want to refresh raids and THEN bring them back. English may not be your first language and therefore somewhat difficult to decipher minute details, so I suggest doing more research and connecting the dots. Just because they were nice enough to show us the progress on Dark Sectors around the same time they mentioned removal of raids does not mean they're replacing one another. Maybe I just understood because I saw the video that came out before the dev steam that started the back and forth on the Dark Sectors in the first place.
Some months have passed, ESO has been a thing for a while now, all i can fucking say is: DE removed raids for this? This video should have a part 2 now.
I think they have a problem with giving a good explanation on their ideas and plans during devstreams. dark sectors are garbage in terms of fun. I do not know if dark sectors can no longer be a farming site for resources anymore. but I do know that they aren't a good raid replacement. It is unknown to me if they said that dark sectors will be raid replacement in a jokingly matter? but I do know that the eidolons are the true temporary raid replacements since the arcanes have been given to them but since the new eidolons are installed into the game as of now we have yet to see if they can be the "true" raid alternative as many would think of it.
Raids, arc-wing missions, dark sectors and conclave are all shit we understand that and them removing the Raids and trying to make the dark sectors viable is basically killing two birds with one stone. Do you want to pay for DLC do... do you want to pay for loot boxes or do you want a game where the devs actually give a shit about their community. In addition, its not surprising that you and countless others think DE is like North Korea silencing you when your complaints are nothing but getting angry about the smallest thing.
I will point out that I don't believe DE plan to make Dark Sector into the new "raids", but instead focus the more "endgame" content towards eidolon hunting (and perhaps w/e awaits for us in the next open world planet). While I can understand for the handful of tenno that actively ran raids why they're upset, I find it's a necessary change, as nothing was being done to the raids. (DE have stated numerous times that they wanted to move away from it.) With more than likely 60%+ of the veteran community not actively running raids, it made sense to do something about a gamemode that held onto arcanes, (and as such; the arcane economy) among other things. Ease of access/understanding also wasn't the easiest, which is a testament to why Raiding School Bus was created in the first place.
This comment is from a veteran raider that primarily raids everyday with a group of 8 friends. When I began raiding, I absolutely loved it. I learnt from the PS4 Community (toxic but doable), and proceeded to do it daily. Eventually got tired of people leeching in my host, so I taught the majority of Mr5-23 at the time and got them to raid daily as well with me, and without me when I had important business to attend to. The arcanes are being put into the Plains, which is good for newer players but not great for those who can't trade in the terrible trade economy on PS4, so arcanes were the better option for quite a number of us. The issue of toxic raiders is one I am very familiar with, but if you are willinh to learn and are using a mic, there has never been an instant that I or anyone I've taught turns them down. Others I cannot speak for and I'm aware of disgraceful hosts. Arcanes are not my issue. The gamemode is being removed, which was designed to be a puzzling challenge which fits into the more "hardcore corner" of the game. My reply is if you have teacher(s) and you are listening, any part of the raid is easy as long as you have one adequate person helping beside you at all times, which is exactly what we did with even Mr2 players. There is absolutely no excuse to take down this gamemode, as DE's fixes I have never seen improvement even in the buggiest of raids (JV). The only update that messed with all the raids has been the most recent hotfix, which also glitched out the Arsenal, Foundry, Navigation, and Inviting others to our Orbiter. The raids are still completable with the bugs, but I, as well as all of the educated, intelligent raid community know that DE is trying to distract everyone with the buffs and to-be-named Dark Sectors from the closing of raids. My response is that I hope they bring the raids back, completely fixed so we cannot speedrun/glitch in raids anymore to cater to DE's "envisioned trail dream", and to bring to light a new, or more new raids. In the meantime, I know my clan will be leaving the game, as well as the 9 others in our alliance that we taught. There was nothing closer to endgame than the raids for us, which speaks lowly upon the other issue of no true endgame, and that raids, although easy can be very hard without communication. This is why we're leaving. DE slapped us in the face with little warning. I rather spend my time on another game that doesn't treat it's dedicated players like what Destiny 2 experienced. - MR18. Began raiding at MR7. Never bothered to increase MR because MR means nothing.
The biggest problem with raids was organizing a party you only get the reward once per day, and with no matchmaking it was extremely hard to find players, I remember back when my 30 person clan was active my and the other leaders would have to fill spots all the time with out getting an arcane. As for the upkeep AKA "We are bad at programing so we're sweeping this under the rug" that's really lame.
All I can say is that the true end game content is Eidolon hunting and Sorties. The more DE push out new content the more older content such as Raid, Frames , weapons, and other content will be neglected. Question why do we PVP and Arkwing in the first place?
DE went from: a good daikyu change to literally the same shit Daikyu Mastery Rank increased from 0 to 10 Physical damage changed from 20% Impact, 60% Puncture and 20% Slash to 30% Impact, 40% Puncture and 30% Slash Charge speed increased from 1.75 to 1 secs ----- Critical chance increased from 20% to 30% ----the only changes that matter Damage decreased from 500 to 420 Daikyu Mastery Rank increased from 0 to 10 Physical damage changed from 20% Impact, 60% Puncture and 20% Slash to 30% Impact, 40% Puncture and 30% Slash Charge speed increased from 1.75 to 1 secs Charge can now be held indefinitely Damage decreased from 500 to 460
oh i saw that comment but i like how that person forgot that they said you needed to kill things to charge the orbs making that last part quite invalid further more the last time they showed player stats on a dev stream, it was shown that on a given weekend approx 1.29% of the online players were raiding, frankly now im glad raids are dead(for now) since killing a terralyst is more alone the lines of what id have liked in a raidish scenario then to arcane prices should drop nicely and things that players need might be more affordable now, the only reason they were expensive being mostly due to how few people had them since most of us thought the raids were sht aside from how good these arcanes were.
Better to remove it for a few years, if that's even how long it will be, and bring back an improved version than to leave it as the festering, elitist corpse it is right now.
To be honest dropping arcanes in eidolons are a pain the ass especially when ur team doesnt have the correct team and the correct weapon build it takes a lot of time. Even if squads are faster u will still need a good build and a good amp for the team to even accept u and with that u have to grind more in poe which can make u burn out really quick especially the ores and fish. Overall, if DE wants the majority of the players to get arcanes, make amps blueprints or every cetus blueprints to be acquired from space as well rather than this, the cetus wisp arent even tradable wtf?
we went against a eidolon as a half-assed 2 man team. we won but it suicide bombed our last lives. was the best experience i had in the game (not kidding it was really fun!)
lol i solo those mother fuckers EZ if your squad is shit maybe you are awell no offense dude but theres a matchmaking now for eidelon hunts win win i guess
I've known about raids for two Yeats and I frankly had no desire to bother with them ever after seeing what they were about. I think that development and maintenance could be better use especially speeding up the newer content they've been working on.
remember when we had statistics released, and raids were around 2% of the missions ever completed or something like that, along with companion statistics etc
The couple times I played them, it was a complete shit show, the puzzles felt awkward were unnecessarily obnoxious and it was not particularly easy to find people to do the raids. I'd pretty much forgotten about them up until now and have had a perfectly fine time in the game since. I don't think many people are gonna miss them, aside from hardcore veterans who played them ever so infrequently.
What Warframe REALLY needs is to get it's raids completely reworked. Of course, that's a lot of time (and consequentially, money) to redo everything, but all they need to do is make them more fun, make the basic versions of raids acessible to mid-game players AND CALL ATTENTION TO IT, give them a quest, exclusive weapon drops, rare mods, etc... And to late-game players give them a harder and more rewarding version of it. Raids have the potential to be awesome, and if they get it to be as awesome as it can and get the players attention to it there will be more than enough traffic to justify the upkeep of the gamemode, and the players will get a way nicer raid system
I’ve been playing since summer 2014 and I’ve played LoR one time. It was one of the biggest shitshows I’ve ever experienced in Warframe. I hated it (also doesn’t help that I got at arcane healing), so I personally don’t care that they have been removed.
It’s kinda understandable as to why they removed it rather than abandoning it like other games do with ‘extra’ game modes. Better to see your family dog put down than to see it suffer in pain before it dies.
Honestly I would have done more raids if more than a select few arcanes were worth the effort. Spending more than 30 minutes only to get a shit arcane felt like time wasted. I just wanted endgame content to have worthwhile rewards, even for the more common drops. It felt like pre-tower key void runs where you would get resources or 2k credit for the majority of your void runs. Tower keys (as well as endless void missions) added some difficulty and guaranteed primes or forma for each run (and guaranteed rotations in endless missions). But then the relic system came along and made the void nearly pointless and lowered the value Primes held in the community. I’m fine with Primes being easier to get now, but I still want the void to have rewards worth getting. Anywho, back the trials, all I wanted was for them to have better overall rewards, not making them easier for lower level players. So if arcanes do become easier to get, I’m honestly fine with that since most weren’t that great, but if DE do bring back trials I want some amazing loot, as well for anything else they dub endgame. Sortie rewards are still a joke as is (outside of the occasional riven). And while I don’t want trials (or endgame content) to become trivialized and too easy, I do agree that these kinds of systems or features need to be made more apparent to the entire playerbase as they begin to reach higher MR and obtain better gear. It certainly didn’t help that nowhere in the game did it tell you raids even existed. If a player didn’t tell you, or if you weren’t curious enough of the arcane tab in the foundry to look it up, you probably weren’t even aware that raids existed in warframe. I pray that on the return of raids, or their replacement, that they will remain higher tier content that is more well known or made apparent to players reaching a certain point in the game and that the rewards are all worth the effort and investment. Sure not all rewards should have the same level of rarity or rank, but none of them should feel as if they aren’t worth getting.
You sir earned a sub. Recent DE actions made me quit the game. After over 12.000 hours on steam and 5.000 hours spent in MISSIONS in-game profile i am done. I see no future for this game looking at DE's actions.
Idk why people try to justify the existence of raids using the existence of conclave as a example. Conclave is actually the only PvP mode that we can play nowadays. Comparing a PvP dedicated mode with a glitched CO-OP mode isn't right. The point that DE tried to bring was that they needed to fix raids and that this game mode wasn't being played by mid-end game players at all. Surely they are trying to make us play more PoE. Surely they are trying to make the game more noob friendly. But they are surely trying to make WF a less glitched and more enjoyable game for everyone. I don't really hate DE, but I blame them for THEIR own game issues. As every game company, they are trying to keep the game healthy. And a healthy game means a great community as well. Changes are a good thing when they are well executed. Let's hope that's the case this time... Leopards can run Eagles can fly But humans, Can only try... That's all.
Raids are incredibly boring though. And let's be honestly, the only reason Zanagoth has his successful raid videos are because he does something different like '8 Operators Only' or "2 Man JV". I guarantee he would not be getting the views he does if it was just a regular run with the usual frames.
Sooo wait , if raids are removed then the only way of getting arcanes is via sectors? (Also im ok with them being removed, they were shit anyways, 1800 hours in and still not enjoying those trials)
No, it's via the new Eidolons but they weren't added with the same updates as the new Eidolons because they are scared that people would abuse an exploit DE has found so they're keeping them for a next update.
Conclave
PvP-By nature, even further from the core game than raids
Heavily restricted power usage
Pretty much no modding
Self-serving rewards that are completely useless and just unusable in the rest of the game
Shows up in LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE HOTFIX
Even smaller than the raid community
Respect to you, good sir!
K-Sha
Conclave
The only gamemode that requires skill
statistics?
K-Sha Y'know all this hate towarfs conclave makes me wonder why I stopped playing. Like I generally had fun playing Conclave and their were quote a few people actively playing it.
Once I get all the Riv armor and the weapon skins, Thats conclave finished for me.
Thanks fam
Zanagoth I'm sorry for your loss fam.
What will you do now?
i think trying to make a rocket out of anything... because he did a raid with a fishing spear
TerrorLTZ
And mining laser
Whelp no more raids, guess you might have to find something interesting to do.
I actually forgot that raids existed
Almighty Loaf lol me to buddy
Almighty Loaf thats how terrible they are
people say it was so terrible bla bla yada yada, but like it or not it was end game content just like sorties. wether u wanna do it or not its up to you. bet yo as that you forgot this game even exist too lmao.
kuromaze ever since monster hunter came out I basically did forget that warframe existed lol
except they have Energize, so grind everyday. good riddance imo, getting what i want from Eidolons will be a lot more fun than the repetitive grind that raids are
As a veteran I can count it on 1 hand how many times I played LoR raids, honestly I don't feel like missing out on anything.
Same, but i understand the rage behind it.
I understand why people would disagree with the removal, don't get me wrong. But it is played by a neiche part of the players, not saying their concerns aren't valid, all I'm saying is it takes a lot of time end effort to acquire the right gear and experience (not mastery rank) to be good at raids and new players can be scared away by it.
Why tf do you think raids should be something meant for new players? It was always for dedicateed veterans and for clans who can coordinate well and take the right gear. Raids were one of very few end game missions in this game.
Rybak Because there are more potential new players than there are veterans.
Yes and ? It's litterally end-game content ! Of course it's not for new players, that's the point. That's not to say that new players cannot do raids tho, one of my current raid group member started LoR when he was mr4 or 5 and newbies can still be carried through basic LoR
It's just not interesting for people below a certain mastery rank and rightfully so
So without trials no-one is ever gonna realistically get the lisets that drop from rare crates.
Landing crafts. Liset is the name of the starting landing craft. And only the Mantis drops from rare containers. I also happen to have the Mantis without ever having stepped into a raid at MR18.
Guywholikes goodmusic I'm at MR20, with well over 3000 hours in game, and have found a grand total of 7 rare containers outside of raids. If not for raids I'd still be 1 piece short for the mantis. If you want to be an extreme pedant then I'll admit that I misspoke by saying Lisets, but otherwise I believe my point still stands.
Don't take it so personally. I was simply pointing out that only one landing craft drops from these crates. I was also making a point that raids are completely unnecessary for getting it. Besides, you clearly have gotten at least one part outside raids, considering that rare Orokin containers are what carry the Avionics.
That and the Brakk. Things next to impossible to get now.
I got 8 sets of each it isn't hard to farm em
This is like trying to make sorties more new-player friendly. It's not supposed to be for new players, it's endgame content. Perhaps, however, they could make decent changes, as long as they kept nightmare raids hard.
I'm honestly fine with this decision. Raids were a fucking mess, and doing the entire raid just to get a shit arcane and having to wait an entire day for another shot at one is ridiculous so putting arcanes in the eidolon drop tables is fine. And dark sectors I can definitely say that it won't be like what they showed us forever. Remember how shitty the relic missions were when they first launched? They re did it and its much better. So dark sectors will change and so will the raids. I have hope for DE when it comes to their raids but right now they're just doing a recall
Arman Taghehchian but what fuck are this Raids
Explain one thing. Okay, arcanes are put into Plains of Eidolon. Fine. Dark Sectors reworked. Fine. Why does theese changes DEMANDS for raids to be shut down? There is NO REASON to shut them down, because even if they were unfamous, they were not a handicap, they were not blocking, slowing or preventing player's progression. There was just a little part of the community, maybe not so big, but they were here, and they had FUN with raids, and that won't do any good, but make that nieche of players, who are a part of raids-dedicated commumity, to leave the game, because the game have NOTHING ELSE to offer for those particular players. And as they says, the "raids will be removed temporarily". For how long, exactly? For another 3 years, like the Dark Sectors? No one in their right mind will wait so damn LONG for the thing that is THE ONE AND ONLY PART OF THE GAME, that person enjoy, they will LEAVE for the greater good, and even if there are only a very few of those people, it is not the valid arguement to toss Raids away, and spit in their face like that.
Ezergile Chimekazikura Because a high maintenance feature only a few autists who have a knack for standing still in a game about going fast play is not economical allocation of dev resources.
Inb4 muh conclave
Conclave only ever needs number tweaks, literally changing one variable in the weapon stats txt. Raids need to be recoded every time the shit fest breaks again.
It really is fitting that the densest motherfuckers in this community are the people finding fun in standing on fucking pressure plates in a space ninja game and think this is good design.
Well, what about any endurance run, like, defense or survival endurance run, where literally You can go as Limbo to disable damage from outside the Cataclysm, trinity for energy regen, Nova for damage multiplier and mesa to spamm her ult and demolish anything, since the abilities actually can go trought the rift? Does that kind of gameplay differs in any sort from what You offer as a reason for raids to be shut down? No, it does not. And, for a fact, if that is the case, they first of all should remove defence missions. At all. Why is that does not happening?
I'll answer. Because removing the defense missions won't benefit them in order to force PoE down the playerbase's throat.
Since you seem to lack any kind of reading comprehension, let me reiterate and let me be very fucking clear: Trials are simply NOT sustainable for DE as a company. It's not economic to have a code monkey assigned to the specific task of refixing the buggy mess trials is every time a mainline update changes the game significantly, especially if only a small percentage of people ever play them.
Also stop strawmanning the fuck out of this argument. Defense missions are low maintenance missions, that a lot more people play than raids. Keeping them in the game takes literally no dev ressources at all.
If you and your mery band of autism friends want to stand around in tubes or on defense objectives for hours on end, pressing one button over and over, be my guest. It's maybe the most efficient way of doing it.
But you HAVE the option to move and play differently and you can still get far if you are good enough .
In raids you don't have this option, standing around is core of the experience. There are 0 other options for completing the mission other than standing around.
And let me be very fucking crystal clear again: Trials may be badly designed and don't fit with the games direction.
However: The MAIN REASON for removing them is the absolute clusterfuck of game breaking bugs and high maintenance their shitty code causes and entails.
My two cents on this: first, the hate on Dark Sectors is a bit misplaced IMO. We gotta remember that it's still WIP. They said that during the devstream. This is still very susceptible to change based on feedback, which they've reiterated numerous times regarding most things in the game. Though the concept shown of Dark Sectors wasn't that intriguing to me, I am curious enough on how the community will react to this in terms of strategy. Yeah sure you could say that people will just spam a few frames (like both Chroma and Loki that you've brought up) but wouldn't it still open up a few more opportunities for experimentation? What I'm trying to say is that this has a potential to put some frames to the test other than the simulacrum. You want to see how your new Atlas build will scale off, why don't you try it out on Dark Sectors? But that is also an assumption on my part that DS will also scale higher or at the very least on par with other higher level content, such as sorties. I guess, we'll just have to wait since it's still in development. As such, I'm honestly not fully intrigued by it but I'm also trying not to quickly dismiss its potential either.
Secondly, as for the raids/trials, I am saddened by the news and deeply worried that it might take the devs too much time to bring back the trials without losing the trust of the raid community and veteran players alike. But after reading the forums and watching some reactionary videos here on YT, I sort of understand (or try my best to) as to why they want to put the trials aside for the time being. Scott did say during the devstream that on a game's design stand point, he wanted to make it better. He saw a lot of the mistakes they've done on the designs of the trials and have seen the consequences of it, such as too much bugs plaguing it, the fact that there is a "specific" meta to make run trials efficiently, or that majority of the trials (referring to LoR) is just stepping on a plate. He did admit his short comings on this and said he was sorry. I think their intention is not to remove trials nor replace it with DS or the Eidolons completely. I think they just want to make trials better and live up to the concept of what a raid/trial should be (accessible to all and challenging to all).
As for the arcanes being removed from trials and into Eidolons, I'm still not sure on whether they just wanted it to be accessible to the community or as a means to attract more players to their newer content. With the arcanes getting some buffs or tweaks with the latest patch, I think they intended it for both. I might be wrong, but that's the impression that I got. They don't want the Teralysts to be simply one-shotted and would also want to reward their players for the effort of hunting down 3 Eidolons now with arcanes. So I'm guessing that's why they're pushing the Eidolons as the "raids" right now. There are indeed more people having access to PoE to do Eidolon hunting and they do want the arcanes to be more accessible to the community (rather than being cornered to a specific group/market).
That being said, these are just my opinions on those subject matter and mostly the impressions that I've just gathered from the community's reaction. I just hope that DE doesn't lose the trust of the community (especially the raid community). I for one love to to do the Trials and that I hope they get to release a proper statement to address this issue more thoroughly, such as a timeline and specific goals, either through a dedicated thread in the forums or either a prime time/dev stream (mind you that the last devstream might not have been enough time for them since they did present and discuss a lot of content). Lastly, I just hope that the next time they bring back Trials, they are far more challenging and accessible, that they haven't lost the raid community who can put the newly designed Trials through the gauntlet of their skills, and that better rewards are given (far more satisfying than the current arcanes we have).
El Duderino Thank. You. You just said everything I was thinking in a much better way than I ever could. It’s refreshing to see somebody at least trying to look on the bright side instead of instantly going “Oh ye FOKKIN DE FOKKIN NOB JOCKEYS”.
El Duderino Warframe is still a WIP and it's been several years
And there's also the fact that DS have nothing to do with raids and they only brought it up because someone made a UA-cam about it a few days prior cause they accidentally showed the star map. They were showing Dark Sectors to point out that even if it takes a while, it WILL eventually come back. No where did they say it was a replacement and even pointed out they wanted to refresh raids not replace them.
Actually there are more people that have access to the raids than the eidolons because you need a amp so shifting arcanes to eidolons doesn't solve the "problem" but I agree with most of the rest you said
Rip Raids. Now, arcanes will be locked behind pressing your left click for 40 minutes while having framerate issues.
So you did all 3 eidolons and killed them in 5-10 min? Amazing, this might be world record
XAndroid1 10 min the three of them, damn that's WR dude, mind sharing video?
That sounds more like a raid than an Eidolon hunt
Tbh i won't compare raids with eidolons. I like raids, they have puzzles and some complexity.I also like the eidolon fights but you just need someone to keep lures alive and tons of damage. It's "hard" only from gear perspective.
People want hard content with good rewards > De makes eidolons > Eidolons are neither Hard and don't have good rewards. The new 3 -lyst hunt is boring shit. Remember capturing Teralyst? So now you can do that for 40 minutes. DE is basically saying "fuck you" right in my face tbh
They specifically said Dark sectors would not be a replacement for Trials. The instant they loaded up the darksectors for demonstration.
Yes, they made comparisons between the 2 forms of gameplay, but that was, as you said, to attempt to convince players that they were actively considering Trial gameplay.
"We know you're worried this'll be just like what happened to Dark sectors. So watch us constantly talk about them, and show that we're considering how they should be re-implemented even when talking about the new Dark sectors"
Additionally, you make the point that the new Dark Sectors is just boring stand-on-the-button all over again. But as Rebecca started up the dark sectors, they said to her "You're playing this the exact way we were hoping players wouldn't", and right before the very clip you bring up, right before "Deryll is probably watching with a glass of scotch", they say this isn't exactly the design they want.
It's almost like they were scrambling to try and calm so many of the people that were adamantly refusing to accept any change, and thus ended up not giving enough time to making a proper explanation to the people who patiently waited for one.
They made a mistake.
Oh no.
It's almost like they're human-beings.
It's been years but I'm here wishing they didn't remove it
I've been playing since March of 2013 or so and i am a Master Founder, and have not played raids once. I don't care about getting a 'perfect' squad, being one shotted if you make one mistake, spending all my resources on maxing mods specifically for this, for the sheer goal of getting arcanes to sell for plat. Not to say if you like raids you are wrong, i just don't see the point of Raids at all, when most of the game is not Raids, which is in a worse disrepair and neglect than Raids are.
Like helmets with stat bonuses. They were lazy for removing them, full stop. They say players don't like stats on helmets, but instead of giving us the option to remove the stats, or just make non stat versions, they remove them AND give us the option to remove the stats. fucking, KEK.
On the plat note, it's not as if it's hard to make nowadays. I think a lot of people are just pissed that they won't be able to make obscene amounts of plat in one sale now.
You are not making plat, you are trading items for platinum someone at some point purchased with real money. We need a way to actually earn plat by playing the game, like selling prime parts to darvo for 1-2p each.
I'd watch NeoNess007 for plat, he's the best when it comes to buying and selling in the market.
I guess you didn't read my comment above.
+Darthmufin Well, there is the 40 plat all new players have, so there's a tiny, tiny percentage that isn't paid for. But I do get what you mean. I was just addressing one of the things people seem to think is an argument for why raids should stay.
Not gonna lie, I've never heard of this so called "famous" Raid Bus School and I knew raids existed since I started 3 years ago.
Chips Light im a early veteran (nova release) and aside from trying a raid once and spending a week attempting to start another i just gave up on them completely. Also i never heard of the raid bus. This is the first time for me
Veteran here, can confirm that I've never heard of RSB.
Veteran as well. Haven't heard of RSB either.
also veteran never heard for this site the blame is on them ahahahahahah like "looks for raid... oh sorry dude experts only" and thats it no mention of "hey theres this site were ppl can help you get into raids" they dig this grave fck them
We have dedicated people taking people on raids and explaining raids from start to end on voice everyday. There is absolutely no gear requirement and it's one of our most basic rules that people can't ask for MR or raid proficiency when recruiting on our server which at 15,000 stands as one of the biggest warframe discord servers in existence. Sound toxic?
I just think it's such a massive slap in the face to RSB, a community of volunteers to help teach newcomers, they don't get any money for giving up their free time to do this, I can't think of many games so fortunate enough to have a proper teaching server, especially for what many see as extremely daunting content.
and DE just threw them under their own bus, to re-purpose rewards and shoving us into the tedium that is PoE.
they moved arcanes to PoE so the 20 people who play raids don't get incredibly rich bc if they just left arcanes the prices would skyrocket
LMAO its funny cause conclave community is on their toes right now. You keep saying 20 people but more then 20 people play Raids and more then 20 people play conclave. Them killing a "low traffic mode" is just the start. It will start with raids, then PVP and god knows after that.
POE is just not fun for me
the difference is that conclave doesnt break with every update or hotfix, its much easier to maintain being a separate system all together, most of the conclave fixes are usually just stat changes for conclave weapons or frame abilites, while jordas and lor constantly become buggy mes 2: electronic spaghetti code boogaloo
Yanderewaifu ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Arcanes from Eidolons is far better idea than dropping one from full raid. Now farming eidolons may be actually rewarding and raids sucked anyway.
Card Master thank you! I think ppl loved raid so much only because they were 8 frames squads. I think de should make some kind of 8 squad sorties but enemys are much more powerful
MirroredMP good idea
brainless eidolon lovers...
Eidolons sucks
Not as much as raids. IMO Eidolons are fun if you have at least decent team. They actually are sth different than doing relics and farming other shiet.
I think the only reason people are up in arms is that they won't be able to gauge others for plat once arcanes are easily accessible to all. It's not like they scrapped the co-op aspect of the game.
The hate on DE right now is completely justified especially since Darksectors changes looks completely bare bones at best and even then won't even have much changes on how clan and Alliences interact with each other like back then with Rails, they only used this as a "We're Sorry" excuse Heck I could argue that old Darksectors is even better then this. Plus the Reason Raids haven't been getting known is because DE hasn't promoted Raids in any shape of form to begin with so it's entirely on their fault even with the help of UA-camrs.
*Now I wonder if Conclave will receive the same amount of Love if this happened to it*
I don't think conclave needs love since ive played it and became a sea salt in a game that has a great community. BUT Id really like to see some love for lunaro instead.
AutismoBox Eh differs from person to person I love Conlave(Free for all only Though) but dislike Lunaro so it's just differs from person to person
No raids are compeltly broken. Trying to push the spore in Jordas was getting worst and worst with every new patch. The raids were utter gargabe even if they had no bugs at all.
Tiramisu #1P4PGOAT It's irrelevant because that's expected especially now That fault is on DE for not focusing on bug fixes that actually improve the raid experience. This also on time period of 2 to 3 years were they had ample time and resources for fixing raid bugs.
Daynick101 it is relevant that's why they are planning to completely remove the raids so that they can make it better and honestly i have no incentives to join raids other than arcane which gets irritating, they should look at World of warcraft to show how raid rewards are done
JV and LOR are dogshit poorly designed unfun missions , I don't get why people are upset , no one fucking played raids except for a select few , it made no sense for DE to spend resources for a dead game mode
honestly, DE never wins. This is mostly their fault for adding so much shit without giving themselves time to fix, but seriously. I remember when everyone was super hyped for the plains, why? Because open world is interesting apparently. I can imagine that they worked hard on the plains and it would be kind of stupid to not do anything with it. If the had just left the plains as is after the first update, people would complain. If they keep updating it, people will complain.
I'm not a fan of the plains, but this shift in attitude towards the plains seems kind of ridiculous.
HYBRIDZ HQ i totally agree, now all de gets is shit no matter what they do, no matter who they try to please b it veterans or newbies they get a shitstorm. They are a small as hell dev team working their asses off making THEIR game. People get so focused on rushing to get everything they suck the fcking life out of it. If played for 3 years almost now and i still take my time, i dont have everything and i play this game like crazy. I play for fun not to own everything and it irritates me to no end when everyone joins on the DE always nerfs or makes their game less fun bandwagon. Just for once can i go 5 minutes on a forum without someone giving DE shit, its just stupidly bad. Just remember people this game should have never made it this far but it did and they did it because of the community. So dont ruin the game by treating the devs like shit who try their best to make the game fun and engaging. Rant ovah!
The problem is not that they're updating the Plains, but that they're going out of their way to make people play there, all if this without considering that low-mid end PCs Struggle on the plains, so they're barely an option.
The Galling Ice, how are they doing that exactly? I play this game daily and I barely go here.
Want an Amp that's not Trash? Go to the plains.
Want Operator Armor and don't have the Platinum to buy it? Farm Standing for the Quills and a lot of resources from the Plains.
Operator Arcanes? To the plains.
Want a Zaw? Farm the plains, no alternatives.
Zaw Arcanes? Heard of the Plains?
Prime Unvaulting of the super expensive and highly requested Ember Prime, Frost Prime (Who admitedly is easy enough to get thanks to Twitch Prime), the Master Race itself Loki Prime, and all of their weapons? Know a nice place to put the relics for them? In the plains, only in the plains, unless you're up to go for an even lower RNG Chance and buy our Relic Lootboxes, that aren't even likely to give you what you need. If your PC can't take the plains, feel free to drop 60 bucks to get our Vault access.
You get Arcanes on raids? Can't have that, raids are gone, farm them in the Plains.
Riven Transmutation, the feature you've been asking for months since the inclusion of Rivens? To the plains, and only if you take down the 3 Eidolons.
They force POE so much
People wanted them fixed, so DE responds by REMOVING them 😂😂😂
There is a point in removing them. Newer players will need countless hours just to be accepted in a squad to do LoR. I get what DE is making. Arcanes for every1 not just veterans
Please Kill Me you do know that new arcanes drop from eidolons which still require lots of hours because you need operator form and sayas vigil completed
Issue is that raiding is supposed to be an end game activity and arcanes should be exotic loot, trying to adapt late game content for newer players makes no actual sense
The same can be said for people wishing to farm the new Eidolons as part of an efficient squad setup, not just effective or even casual runs. Except LoR is gated by experience to be efficient, while Eidolon farming is gated behind 2 cinematic quests, 5 Quill ranks and a plethora of Focus nodes to be efficient. This isn't to say you can't just rock up to a Hydrolist fight with just a Mote amp and a Vauban but the same can be said for raids. Recruit chat is only willing to take experienced raid players just like they'll only be taking experienced Eidolon farmers, now so more than ever there is actual fail conditions to the new Eidolons.
The use of Efficient over Effective and other such words cannot be overstated. Recruit is looking for efficiency unless plainly stated otherwise.
My opinion: make a votation to see what the community wants. Removing Trials might have a bigger impact in the game than DE expects. And after I read you comments it's true. Farming eidolons to get arcanes is a mid-end game activity also. So what's the point of removing LoR then if newer will still need a lot of hours (and quests) just to get a arcane. That's a very difficult call to make.
Except you don't need that much time to start raids. The raids aren't hard, you just need to know the strategy and have good coordination. That was the beauty of them - it was mostly teamwork, not gearcheck. There were plenty newbies that started raiding through WFRSB when they didn't have the best gear.
the darksector in the devstream is just a devbuild and not the final product.
FroztByte Gamer doesn’t mean it has a 100% chance to change :p
It's a dev build that has been "in the works" for 3 years and has basically nothing to show for that time, there were people that loved the old dark sector stuff that waited 3 years for no news only to receive a small showing of a glorified survival mode a time limit. It's understandable for them to be angry about it.
ill judge what I see
I don't see shit and call it gold
That's a really narrow minded viewpoint. They said during the stream that this is one of many iterations of the Dark Sectors, and it is very, very early.
lol will you be satisfied in 3 yrs when raids return as pvp?
Complaining that DE doesn't listen after the temporary removal of a feature nobody likes and then completely ignoring the reworks of existing Frames people have been asking for for over a year and the addition of Prime Vault accessory packs.
not entitled at all
They got pressured into Prime Vault accessory packs only because big UA-camr, in this case Jim Sterling, called them out on it.
it's not enough that they gave the community exactly what they wanted anyways though.
>temporary removal
>He doesn't remember that Dark Sectors were put on "temporary" removal on MARCH 19TH, 2015
>feature nobody likes
>he doesn't recognize that RSB's discord membership is in the hundreds upon THOUSANDS
>he thinks DE listens to the community
>he doesn't realize that it practically takes for the forums and reddit to burn down before DE does a thing, usually MONTHS after the request was made
>green text on UA-cam
Dixie Normous don't mind this type of guy... he/she thinks just because they don't like raids, no body else like raids. Just let this kinda guy alone, we should try to enjoy the game as long as we could before... you know...
There's a raid community?
There was
Raids were dead content, Eidolons and Dark sectors are here to replace them.
Also Dark Sectors are literally speed runs.
POE is boring glorified syndicate missions
And is there something wrong with that? Also what about Venus? *_Soon™_* we'll get Venus, and *_Digital Extremes™_* said you'll need the map to get around, hinting that there will be no syndicate to lead you.
@@modil2935 so want to rethink about the comment
I wouldnt jump straight into the «hate darksectors» train. They said it's very much WIP and, therefore, very unpolished. I do think it's important to at least express that the dark sector's current design is not fun and flawed, but we are also not dealing with the final product.
Anyways, any attempt at creating and polishing more end game content I find welcoming, since the entire community is hungry for it.
As to raids being replaced with dark sectors, well... yeah, definetly, but I'm not entirely against it. Raids are a complex mission type and even though I never felt any desire to play it, from the raid content creators I watch it's very easy to see how flawed it's design is as well. The puzzles were indeed boring and sometimes anoying, and it felt out of place in a game like Warframe. It's important end game content isnt only challenging but also fun, and raids were far from it. Hell, the only thing got me to watch raid videos was to see the ridiculous challenges the players tried (like «LOR with fishing spears»), not to watch the actual gameplay and mechanics.
Player engagement in raids is low as well, you can observe it ingame. Some clans may be dedicated to it, but again, most of them are doing it because there's nothing else to do, which is exactly what dark sectors is meant to fix.
Dont entirely believe they are forcing POE down our throats either. The plains werent shipped with all of its content, more eidolons were supposed to be shipped with it as well as the ghouls. These updates are pretty much assets in development at the time POE got released (Im not taking their word for it, they showed the new eidolons and ghouls early models in devstreams around that time, so its fair to assume the facts check out).
Being a somewhat newer player, I find it a shame that I wasn't ever able to try out these raids.
edit: funny how dark sectors are now just literally endless missions of vs. infestation with a slightly higher exp and drop rate on the planet and nothing else these days. I genuinely wonder what it would have been like to play warframe back when people were actually excited for the updates.
I loved raids, the best warframe memories
It sucks to see they're going away
I mean, yeah, the solution to arcanes is to put them into the Planes. I might actually be able to see one in my lifetime if they do things that way. Like, raid arcanes are so impossible to come by that I just wrote them off as an irrelevant relic from a bygone era.
The entitlement in this video, my god.
They're not disabling raids because of a few bug fixes, they clearly say it's because they wanna do a serious overhaul. Besides, no one outside of some little echo-chamber that apparently thinks it's -famous- does those raids in the first place.
And what the fuck kinda argument is "Well conclave is bad too!", calling it unbalanced even though everyone in the game has relatively simple access to the same gear for it.
What do you honestly wanna achieve with that? Do you want them to just disable the conclave? Do you expect them to go "Oh, that part of our game stinks, so I guess we *won't* flush away this massive turd afterall".
Seriously, this is why people hate raid communities.
Welcome to the problem with raids in any game. It's the most entitled, elitist and obsessive miniscule little fraction of the community that can't realize that they aren't even close to a note-worthy percentage of players, just because they never do anything else.
Glaticcow because conclave doesn't need to be fixed after every small update. If raids are not getting fixed anymore they will eventually reach a point of inaccessiblity just as if they remove them. However, removing them also lowers the stress from the servers.
Glaticcow how exactly do you figure that Conclave has less activity and higher upkeep? Have you seem some numbers that the rest of us haven't? Or are you simply pulling this out of your ass?
They clearly don't want the current form of raids to be part of their game in any way or shape, and if they keep it in people will keep whining for fixes to a part of the game that DE, quite frankly, *doesn't want in their game*
This shit is honestly infuriating! They literally just buffed over a hundred weapons, added brand new Eidolon content, buffed frames, added new vehicles and are adding new pets to the game and all people can do is BITCH about a single game mode being removed that NO ONE PLAYED! Show some fucking appreciation people! Removing raids is disheartening yes, but actively insulting DE, one of the single most active developers in the industry in terms of listening to their damn community and who actively tries to make the game more fun for the majority of people is childish and is spoiled to the EXTREME! Biting that hand that feeds you is not a positive thing! Grow the fuck up!
preach
I see you like eidolon hunting, lets say eidolon hunting got "temporarily" removed for a year or two. Thats exactly what people that raid experience right now. And i cannot praise DE for shoving the plains into our face basically forcing us to go there. The new eidolons are nowhere near the replacement for trials because they require 0 teamwork (can even be done solo). Also absolutely no resources were invested into trials at all, at least leave them in the bugged state they are
TheDiamondIndustries // TDIDesigns completely ignoring the fact that they just said they pushed a ton of resources into rajds
Gasnix then why were none of the gamebreaking bugs fixed (litterally not a single one) for over 2 years? Why hasnt a single hotfix even mentioned trials in any major way for over the same 2 years? I honestly do not understand what they meant by that. Server uptime is not an issue since warframe is P2P.
TheDiamondIndustries // TDIDesigns p2p? As in pay to play? What?
This may just be a theory kinda but you can watch him roll up his sleeves while talking and iv'e seen people do this before while being nervous or lying.
Well, the issue about raids is that at the same time they're considered endgame and tend to drive away most regular and even veterans and they're actually very easy, even in Nightmare mode.
It is quite a mess.
To be honest, I think they should embrace the endgame vibe and be made much harder than the cakewalk is it at the moment.
As for DE's actions, it's up to debate. It's clear they didn't take the whole 3 years since they were taken down to be reworked but that it was a possibly recent work. I see that as an effort to show the Raiding community that yes, they can and will bring Raids back once they figure out what to do with it, and if DE gets motivated, shouldn't take nearly as long as it did for Dark Sectors.
But that's just speculation...
Everyone seems to be missing the point that the issue here isn't 'removal of raids' it's 'DE won't listen to us'
Seriously? After the massive amount of gun buffs and frame balances people have been asking for, on top of postponing damage 3.0 after player feedback, they "don't listen to you" because they're looking to improve an aspect of the game that the majority of players had nothing to do with? Outside of a few nitpicky things, where exactly are they ignoring you?
Sure, they listened to us then. But just because they did listen then does not excuse them from not listening now.
I've typed this comment once, but then deleted it to refine it some more.
TL;DR: Raids should be removed. They're not engaging. They require certain things that puts a metaphorical barrier to even do the raid, which makes it difficult for those who barely communicate (or have friends) to get their hands on Arcanes. They're still buggy and very poor in rewarding the time spent. The teams feel forced, and if you try to make them "entertaining", you only waste energy pads for the sake of giving entertainment. They're old and outdated. Those complaining about the removal are the same who glitch-run the very raids they're defending, yet do not disclose how certain bugs or glitches are even done (To this very day). Many of which break the rules of the game by using numerous accounts to obtain multiple arcanes in a single day (when, this very idea DE has is attempting to remove that arcane limiter). This move is going to make Arcane-gathering more engaging, new missions for players to faff about in, and give Focus a greater purpose (because, let's be real, after a few upgrades you were tearing down the first Eidolon left and right). The removal of the raids are required, deal with it community - please. =w=
Didn't read the TL;DR? ... Have fun reading.
The individuals who are bitching about the raid usually have that type of "reputation" behind their back. I'm looking at specific "top clans" and the RSB... Hell, include 80%+ of the players who have "Dash Dash" in their name (you know *exactly* who, or what kind of people, I'm talking about).
There are channels out there that do 8-[Frame Here] videos because the raids themselves have lost popularity (most likely talking about "Zanagoth"). Sure, it's entertaining to see 8 Octavias or 8 Nidus players go through a raid - but playing the actual raid *yourself* is tedious and boring. And no, I'm not saying the Dark Sectors or Eidolons themselves are a perfect replacement for a way to gain arcanes - but to get to the point of gaining them is *more feasible* than the raids themselves. Getting a public group for JV is almost as difficult as randomly queuing up for Hydron and getting 4 Corrosive Projections in the team... You're lucky to ever see it happen. While people behind the RSB treat new players like they're nothing but children in an elementary school - other clans abuse glitches that (even for *months* - mind you) don't *report* how the bug is done and what steps they take. Hell, to this day there are *secret ways* some clans get through raids in "record times" that haven't been detailed properly on the internet. Where are their bans or punishments for completing the raid in under 15 minutes? Wait, they're good..? What about those in under 6 or 7?... When JV requires *guaranteed* 5 minutes to beat one of their stages.
Where's the fun? I'm sorry "Zanagoth" (Don't even recall a video of yours - yet I'm an extremely avid warframe player) - but your content doesn't get spoken about through the chat of the game, or even my discord channels. I've probably seen some videos though. However, people talk about "Mogamu" because his content is relevant to what people find enjoyable at the time of patches. People talk about "MCGamerCZ" because he discusses builds for numerous situations that can be used across the star chart. "-N00blShowtek-" falls into that category too... as well as that bloody potato himself >w>. But nobody in this game goes "Man, let's go have fun in Jordas Verdict!" ... No. I'm a great fan of archwing (no matter how dull or empty the weapon variety and abilities are), and I love the movement, melee, explosions and what-not. But even being, probably, the biggest fan of archwing flying/melee'ing - I do not enjoy JV. Being a fan of coordination and team-play games/actions (Still love you TERA, even though I've not touched ya in a long time) - I do not enjoy the repetitive required-nature of LOR. Your channel probably consists of releasing entertaining videos of the raid (or challenges) - but you're trying to put entertainment into something I've never heard being talked about in a "fun" way. Raids themselves are like elementary schools to literal kids... I guess I could see why the RSB has to treat them the same way. And no, I have not gone to the RSB myself nor attempted it. I had numerous other friends go into the bus and tell me their stories of the channel/runs themselves. From the "requirements" needed to be someone of teaching-authority for JV (I mean, seriously guys? I could fucking teach the raid probably better than 99% of the teachers in that damn channel with the tales I've been told), to the glitches/exploits they use - I don't sense any "fun" there... so there's a funny, I guess slightly coincidental, play-on word when it comes to saying "bus" from RSB.
Also, here's a grueling challenge. Near-Impossible challenge: puu.sh/zlm4l/0e47ea7658.txt - For those wishing to beat an ultimate challenge.
I guess what I'm saying is... to everyone that *actually* cares about the raid - suck it up. It's years old, with exploits the community dare not to say out loud or inform the dev's about, with people who break the rules of the game itself by using multiple accounts to get arcanes, that require an unintentionally difficult way of being accepted into learning - teaching - or being recognized by the raid and its "communities", with a reward that 97 times out of 100 usually sucks. When I (and many others) could gain platinum through farming simple relics with missions that are 5x less strenuous, or farm a mod you literally could sit in a room and press one button for - for 10-15 minutes. For those who don't do it for the platinum gain, and wish for the arcanes that don't suck (like Arcane Energize, Guardian, Barrier and Aegis)... I understand your boring struggles. 29 JV Runs and only 2 Arcane Energize... 15-20 hours for something I wanted faster. This is what DE is trying to fix. They're adding in Arcanes to more entertaining places. They're trying to stop the barrier that exists when it comes to raids (and if you don't know the barrier I'm talking about, you didn't play solo or dared to communicate with your clan).
This removal is required. When going out into the plains and mining random ores - trying to perfectly follow a line around a blue gem - is more entertaining than a raid (or "Trial") ... It needs to be removed. When fighting an upgraded Eidolon feels more challenging and is even harder than the raid itself (and more demanding of attention and timing), it needs to be removed. I want a raid to be something that challenges my ass to the point of hating it harder than a boss in Dark souls beating me into the dirt 50 times. I want it to reward me with something that puts not only *1* arcane to my name, but either 10+ of them or something even *greater* than arcanes. I want it to be something that has no glitches, that - when completed - actually gives a sense of accomplishment and a title/badge that can actually be recognized as "wow, you did that?". Not some fancy shoulder-light that you add to every frame because nobody's got something better to put there anyways.
And even with me typing all of this, there are bound to be those who still think the damn raids should not be touched. To you - I say go fish. No, literally, go to the plains and fish. Fishing is more entertaining than the raid - and you literally sit there, throw a dye, throw bait and pharoma, and wait. Or go open relics. Opening intact relics and getting prime junk feels more valuable than getting another *ARCANE ARACHNE* ... out of all the arcanes they buffed, why didn't they just make that damn arcane give 400%+ more weapon damage on wall latch or something? If those of you who read this paragraph don't believe me, simply do this - mute your discord, game, whatever you communicate to your teammates through - and do another raid. You won't admit it to me, but go on and ask yourself if this feels fun. Then - do the same when fighting an Eidolon, or mining, or fishing. Then - when you mine or fish, go talk to the same friends about the same shit you talk about during a raid. You'll find that the most entertaining part about doing the raid wasn't the raid itself or the rewards (95% of the time), but it was the people you talked to - or the music/podcast you listened to instead. You (just like me) did the raid as a chore and nothing more. If you still feel strongly about the raid being removed, then by all means - explain why it should stay. I'd love to hear why it's fun, engaging, and rewarding to not only "veterans" - but new players alike. .u.
You're a god damn Amarican hero!
Oh, god..remember when sorties replaced the void and void keys where made?
Yeah,I do that was a nightmare, cause sorties seemed like a interesting idea,til It turned out they are just glorified dice rolls for some "Meh" stuff.
And void keys are just a way so,you can't make a key turn into 50 warframe parts.
In any game I think it's preferable to slow down bug-fixing of niche content if you have to (unless something literally prevents it from working) to minimize upkeep than removing it. People are smart enough to work around bugs if they crop up. Since you don't advertise the content anyway it's unlikely new players will even know it exists until long after they start playing so it's unlikely to make your game look bad. Think of it like this:
1- You remove the content. The small, but active and vocal community that plays that content flames you in forums and social media, making you look like a bunch of nazis to potential new players, regardless of how many people are actually talking about it and whatever good intentions you may have. Also it sets a precedent that nobody can be too attached to a piece of content because it's likely to be removed if it becomes unpopular.
2- You greatly reduce upkeep on the content. The content's community may voice out displeasure at bugs that take forever to get fixed or never are, but invariably work around them as long as they don't completely break the content. They aren't as vocal about it so it doesn't make you look as bad, and there's no precedent that a piece of content may be removed for unpopularity.
You accomplish a very similar goal with the second option as far as preventing the niche content from taking dev time away from popular and new content, while not killing a part of your game's community and not looking like bags of dicks.
BUT THE POINT IS ARCANES SHOULDNT BE FOR EVERYONE. Arcanes are an ENDGAME or rather LATEGAME reward. The raids are a lategame mission by doing this you are limiting the amount of lategame options for more experienced players. Basically what im getting at is arcanes SHOULD NOT be more accessible to new players. If all the latwgame rewards are more accessible to everyone then theres no incentive for experienced players to get them. Everyone will have them so theres also no point in selling them etc etc. 2017 was a GREAT year for DE but they are NOT starting 2018 well at all. It feels like they are doing the exact opposite of everything they should be doing.
I do sorties, endless missions, high-level index, eidolons and whatever else passes for endgame in WF. I've never been able to do a raid, either because no one wants to take on players inexperienced in raids or because you need a large clan/friends to do them. Unless you fell into those two previous categories, or were lucky enough to find someone to teach you raids, then you didn't have arcanes. They weren't inaccessible because they were endgame rewards, they were inaccessible because raids were inaccessible for a lot of players. This is also all going on the idea that arcanes are worth all that hassle. Which outside of plat value, they really aren't.
The raid community was a joke. They were no life players who would rather spend 10 hiurs a day in the trade chat than actually play the game... Hence why they would rather spend 3-4 hours EVERY day to play broken boring raids only to get a chance at an arcane that they will resell at jacked up prices. Good riddance for both raids and the raid community.
No you will never convince me that standing on pressure plates and pusing a buggy spore is good gameplay. Maybe you're in the miniroty of autistic players who enjoy standing on pressure plates but that makes you a VERY small miniroty. It still don't belive you would pay raids if they didn't have arcanes. Arcanes(platinum) are the ONLY reason you played those boring broken raids and don't try to bullshit me.
2 of the raids aren't so bad but JV is damn unplayable
Your argument lost its ground the moment you called him autistic.
Shehroz Farooq indeed... that guy used the word autistic without truly know the meaning of the word at all.
What a cruel, heartless, and brainless person with no emphaty.
Tiramisu #1P4PGOAT Same. I attempted raids for a week and then gave up. The amount of time spent on something so dull to get something kinda cool or plain out shit, killed my efforts to play it further. True the game is all grind, but when the grind is near impossible and bugs literally make all your time spent go away in an instant or people leave, the raid experience is trash.
Steve said in May, “They will return at the end of summer.”
(To DE) It’s the middle of August,... Where the hell is our Raids?!?!
Rahetalius is Right about warframe’s raid, but Destiny 2 has gotten a whole lot better while the parasite (white knights) of warframe have grown large since February of 2019.
I actually like the concept of Dark Sectors but I think they need more than "Kill everything while defending the point" because that will get dull and require DPS setups. I'm sure Spore Saryn and Chromatic Excal will absolutely dominate maybe Hydroid and Nova, too. But they should really put in more objectives. Maybe not exactly mobile defense because that being random could give some ones an auto disadvantage but throw in reinforced targets to capture/assassinate and mini bosses. And they didn't talk about the rewards. That's going to be the most important thing. Dark Sectors are gonna have to be worth doing. That being said, they are not a replacement for Raids and I hope DE doesn't think they are. Trails needs to be come back, and it should not take 3 years for their return. Other than that, Dark Sectors do look cool and I think they could be a lot of funs if done right.
Whether or not DE does that...
I also find it funny they used the idea of Dark Sectors to distract/sweeten the deal for players in terms of and end game type gamemode, but all the gameplay shown has very little to do with the original concept of Dark Sectors, the name has changed TWICE to something that isn't related to Dark Sectors, and the rewards are "useless but fun" mods that take up a valuable slot in most cases and valuable capacity in all cases.
Seems like they just killed it as a way to market their new trash game mode.
I liked the raids. It took me awhile to learn them as a solo player but since there was room for 8 people in a squad, some veterans wouldnt mind having a new player with them to learn how to do the mission. It wont be the same for the eidolons since you only are 4 people and people want to fully optimize speedrunning strats. Another thing i want to add is that the raids only could be done 1 time per day so ofcourse there wont be as many people doing them. Im confident there would be more people doing them and redoing them if there was no daily limit.
Man, the 20 people who actively played raids are really vocal about this
1% of the WF players play the raids regularly yet they are making an outcry like it has completley destroyed the game for everyone. It is a pretty good reason why they removed the raids you know. Its ok to be disapointed but dont make it seem like DE is the bad guys, they are realy doing what they think is best for THEIR game
lol if it’s their game then let them play it.
We can all fuck off and play better games.
well we can, you are not being forced to play warframe. I for one didnt care about raids at all, and I know I am not the only one feeling like this, so I am excited about this change. Maybe it will be something actually bearable this time, sounds like fun
There is literally no reason they couldn't have kept them up while they worked on the future raids
It is true DE are the owners of Warframe but the fact of the matter is they would not and still wouldn't have a game without the support of the community. How many other games can you think of that ask players to pay $60 and up to support the game every few months for some untradeable cape? And while there are certainly those that take it too far the attitude the community has developed is consequence of DE's past actions. Meaning DE has undeniably hurt the game in the past in pursuit of what's "best" by a company whose main priority is to make money.
Seymour Wang warframe is In a good place, raids are outdated and they are probably going to be updating them while they are gone. If you want to talk about bad company’s that actually rip you off go play destiny 2 with bungle
Let’s be real here
im been playing warframe for 4 years now (not constantly but is still one of my favorite games) and i have only play raids twice(LoR and JV) and it was one of the most buggiest and tedious task to complete in those times i got the luck to have a veteran to teach us but when the most efficient way to win is staying in a place spamming abilities not requiring not knowing nor abilityto complete them, i don't think it was something i wanted to repeat, and for most of my friends that still were doing them, the only reason they told me they still do it was because of the Ludacris prices of arcanes (on that time) and the power they can give. and common man even if many people say about how the RBS was so famous and known i have never heard of them not even once, and to state they can’t be trust by showing a mistake of 4 years is really not the best way to prove your point. They can no longer support trails that break every 2 hotfixes, and that is more than enough reason to shut them down while they try to rework them. And at last of course they want to promote their last content, they are putting all in it to advertise more the game and bring more people in, making the game grow more and more and giving them the time and money to bring new things to the table (like new trials or a really good kind of end game), they advertising PoE it’s a way to adapt people to the new kind of content they plan to add to the game
I kind of like the idea of them moving arcanes to somewhere else, but completely removing raids/trials is completely asinine. The fact that they even stated “The raid community is very passionate” or however they said it, and still want to go through with this just looks like they don’t give a shit about us.
>DE *temporarily* removes part of the game to make it better.
>DE releases a ton of buffs and balances people have been asking for for ages.
"They don't care about us". I don't follow. Are they supposed to fit every single decision around 5% of game content and the small amount of players who still play it?
>DE temporarily removed dark sectors. in 2015. so, yeah...
> who was asking for tigris buffs?
One thing they filed to mention in that devstream, that Tactical Potato covered in a video a day or so prior, they intend to put the arcanes onto the teralyst... where's the issue??? Still got your speed runs.. still got the ability to carry unskilled players threw it.. Soooo whats the problem?
warframe heading into a bright future i see :^)
Sir George Warframes been dying I saw a recent vid that said how warframe has 26 million registered useders yet the avg player base has not pass 33k recently, the highest it got was when PoE came out and that was only 100k.
*losers
I will point a lot of errors and misinformation in this video. I do not think that this false information as given with a bad intention but it is needed to be pointed.
1- You need to kill to progress in Dark Sector (it is hard to understand why this user didn't know that, it was said 3 times during the devstream, I just saw that).
2- The second point of the interpretation is just a dumb. The only reason for that to be done was in order to relieve the stress on the market for arcanes (which has more sense than let it to Raids), which has a more active community and goes more in sink with the whole game mechanics (which you would like it or not, but that's not the point, neither what *they want for their game* ).
3- Conclave is balanced (as balanced as a PvP game can be, at least). I've seen new players go up to the leaderboards with MK1 weapons... so... I don't know. The other half of this... "accusation" of yours is that the kind of work that Conclave gives (which are only stats) and the ones the gamebraking bugs that Trials have... Don't do a false comparison, please. Also, Conclave is one of the places where new players go, so... No... not the same perspective.
4- You clearly don't know a shit about game engine, programming or anything related... If they are not going to give support to an old system that has an "economy" related, it is needed to be shut down, and the changes aren't so easy or are you those kinds of person that thinks that a company who survives in a fair Free2Play model don't do changes in a buggy system as fast just because they want to fuck their player base? You didn't think that DE gets 's more benefits leaving the system as it is, with sets of arcane so high that "new players" will be forced to play platinum to get them? You think they will win more money not forcing new players to play a gamemode that is boring as shit (because for almost all the community who isn't Raid based, thinks that Trials are boring as fuck) instead of buying it with platinum? Maaan... you are toxic as hell or you didn't think that much xD
5- They especially said that they don't want to take that much time like what happened with Dark Sectors and that the new technology developed on PoE permits a Warframe to have a dungeon-ike system. Why will they lie in something that they proved they have improved? The changes are going faster than they did (and this isn't an AAA company), and you can see it on Gaara and the new reworked Warframe, which has been modified after hearing what the community said.
One thing is to being critic, and another to being toxic.
If I understood currently during Devstreams, the orbs in Dark Sectors are going to work somehow like "soul consumer" In CoD Zombies (you need to kill enemies to fill the orb with souls to unlock another orb) - and also every later segment is supposed to have some modifier like "headshots only". Das all I wanted to say, probably not relevant and not needed.
Funny how d2 raids are superior in every way to warframe raids and DE has had years to get it right
Personally im glad raid is dying it needs to. My experiences with raids specifically the raid community where terrible. Some of thee most toxic players in the game are the raid community. They are an inclusive group who bitched and complained if you didn't play the way they wanted you to play with the frame they wanted you to play or your kicked. Also now that arcanes are being moved to eidolions expect a major price drop on something that is needed for late game content. There are more people hunting eidolions then running raids. The only reason this small group is getting upset is they lost there social circle and there corner on the arcane market. Time to cut the bad fruit from the tree and let something new grow. Is it dark sectors. NO its not. Is it hunting eidolions. As it is no not yet but the potential is there. The future will tell its there game there decision we just play and offer are suggestions its up to them to make the decisions don't like it go play an EA or 2K game see how much they care about the community. Me i'll be having fun playing warframe for a few more years whatever DE decides to do.
At least we will get arcanes from capturing the eidolon which means we will got more than 3 arcanes per day
The only thing stupid about the removal of raids is that it has come BEFORE the removal of Conclave.
Like, what?!
IMO
Raids>Arbitrations
Raids>Sorties
Raids>Open Worlds
Raids>Onslaught
Boi. Warframe never had raids. It's an insult to raids to try and call what Trials were, 'raids'.
I wouldn't mind the fact that they are removing raids, however I'm pretty annoyed that they also made the conclusion that teamplay-focused co-operative gamemodes is not the way to go. I loved LoR because it encouraged coordination and communication over the classic tank+dps mentality. It had some nice puzzles and in the end it had a more complicated bossfight where you had to dodge heavy damage artilleries while trying to figure out door locks. The fact that DE wants to support braindead powercreeps over anything fun is disappointing. Let's not even talk about how they think a glorified survival is more fun than a conclaive-styled invasion.
Honestly raids where so buggy and frustrating especially on console. So losing them wont be a big issue. Also the fact i dont have to spend 250 plat for a single arcane will be good and its not like the eidolons are hard (currently talking about the first one) me and my friend can pretty much kill a few a night duo style. And considering its available almost right away, doesn't take forever or some bs teamwork, is great. The only issue is the raid was a good source for credits. And its about time the arcane market crashed
how does it feel to farm the 7000 oxium for vauban prime
If the Raids WERE well-designed, I'd be annoyed too. But even back when I did Raids every day, they were not a fun or enjoyable thing -no less of a grind or chore than 'maxing Focus'. You had a selection between 4-5 frames you HAD to have, then run around and do it all as fast as possible, whoop de doo. This is not me saying that I'm happy about Raids going away (even from a market standpoint this is going to be HELL) -this is me saying that Raids were never this 'masterpiece' of Warframe. If they need to remove them for a year to rework them (though I fear they will force Operator mode into them because why the hell not shoehorn this gimmick in as well) to make them more flexible and adaptive, so be it. Personally, I'd prefer a Sortie-like Raid. And before you harp on it; think of a Raid that occurs in 3-5 stages and each stage is randomly chosen from a pool. It might have a Hijack part, it might not. It might have a defence, or it might have a Spy section. Force people to diversify their builds and learn to do things a little bit outside their comfort zone.
???
1)Yes, conclave also doesn't fit with the game. This isn't much of an argument to keep either.
2)They're not shutting it off to bugfix, they're shutting it off because it was stuff that hardly 1% of players actively played AND required constant bugfixing to keep those players happy
3)Yes, rotting. It is mildly funny to watch zanagoth kill the big boss guy with fishing spears or 8x one frame. This is mostly due to the video editing and his own entertaining.
I feel like you're strawmanning their statements a little here. I get it if you miss the trials, but would you honestly not be upset if they just took away arcanes and ignored them in terms of bugfixes instead? Business decisions can be made in favor of a small, dedicated group. They can't ALL be.
Personally never touched the raids, I tried it once but I hate raids in a lot of mmos, vindictus and Dragon nest had alright ones, I always wanted to have the freedom to use things like Arcane arachne but it was locked behind annoying raids, I refuse to do archwing and the amount of time it takes to learn the raids is bothersome. It's nice that the teralysts can drop them because it let's me try stupid combos, as much as I dislike teralysts, it's a lot better than raids.
I still want to know why conclave exists. I've tried many a time to play it, but I usually quit from never actually finding a group of people playing the mode. Could they just remove conclave and lunaro please?
I agree that raids shouldn't be taken out. But THEM SHOWING DARK SECTORS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RAIDS. IT IS NOT REPLACING RAIDS.
The only reason they brought it up is because someone saw it on the star map in the last stream and made a whole you tube video and in that video he brought up the similarities between them saying DS would be back and it taking 3 yrs so don't expect raids back for 3 yrs.
So after that video they felt obligated to show the progress on Dark Sectors. The only similarities is that they are saying it will come back but we don't know when. They clearly stated they want to refresh raids and THEN bring them back.
English may not be your first language and therefore somewhat difficult to decipher minute details, so I suggest doing more research and connecting the dots.
Just because they were nice enough to show us the progress on Dark Sectors around the same time they mentioned removal of raids does not mean they're replacing one another.
Maybe I just understood because I saw the video that came out before the dev steam that started the back and forth on the Dark Sectors in the first place.
Some months have passed, ESO has been a thing for a while now, all i can fucking say is: DE removed raids for this?
This video should have a part 2 now.
I think they have a problem with giving a good explanation on their ideas and plans during devstreams. dark sectors are garbage in terms of fun. I do not know if dark sectors can no longer be a farming site for resources anymore. but I do know that they aren't a good raid replacement. It is unknown to me if they said that dark sectors will be raid replacement in a jokingly matter? but I do know that the eidolons are the true temporary raid replacements since the arcanes have been given to them but since the new eidolons are installed into the game as of now we have yet to see if they can be the "true" raid alternative as many would think of it.
Raids, arc-wing missions, dark sectors and conclave are all shit we understand that and them removing the Raids and trying to make the dark sectors viable is basically killing two birds with one stone. Do you want to pay for DLC do... do you want to pay for loot boxes or do you want a game where the devs actually give a shit about their community. In addition, its not surprising that you and countless others think DE is like North Korea silencing you when your complaints are nothing but getting angry about the smallest thing.
I will point out that I don't believe DE plan to make Dark Sector into the new "raids", but instead focus the more "endgame" content towards eidolon hunting (and perhaps w/e awaits for us in the next open world planet).
While I can understand for the handful of tenno that actively ran raids why they're upset, I find it's a necessary change, as nothing was being done to the raids.
(DE have stated numerous times that they wanted to move away from it.)
With more than likely 60%+ of the veteran community not actively running raids, it made sense to do something about a gamemode that held onto arcanes, (and as such; the arcane economy) among other things.
Ease of access/understanding also wasn't the easiest, which is a testament to why Raiding School Bus was created in the first place.
This comment is from a veteran raider that primarily raids everyday with a group of 8 friends. When I began raiding, I absolutely loved it. I learnt from the PS4 Community (toxic but doable), and proceeded to do it daily. Eventually got tired of people leeching in my host, so I taught the majority of Mr5-23 at the time and got them to raid daily as well with me, and without me when I had important business to attend to. The arcanes are being put into the Plains, which is good for newer players but not great for those who can't trade in the terrible trade economy on PS4, so arcanes were the better option for quite a number of us. The issue of toxic raiders is one I am very familiar with, but if you are willinh to learn and are using a mic, there has never been an instant that I or anyone I've taught turns them down. Others I cannot speak for and I'm aware of disgraceful hosts. Arcanes are not my issue. The gamemode is being removed, which was designed to be a puzzling challenge which fits into the more "hardcore corner" of the game. My reply is if you have teacher(s) and you are listening, any part of the raid is easy as long as you have one adequate person helping beside you at all times, which is exactly what we did with even Mr2 players. There is absolutely no excuse to take down this gamemode, as DE's fixes I have never seen improvement even in the buggiest of raids (JV). The only update that messed with all the raids has been the most recent hotfix, which also glitched out the Arsenal, Foundry, Navigation, and Inviting others to our Orbiter. The raids are still completable with the bugs, but I, as well as all of the educated, intelligent raid community know that DE is trying to distract everyone with the buffs and to-be-named Dark Sectors from the closing of raids. My response is that I hope they bring the raids back, completely fixed so we cannot speedrun/glitch in raids anymore to cater to DE's "envisioned trail dream", and to bring to light a new, or more new raids. In the meantime, I know my clan will be leaving the game, as well as the 9 others in our alliance that we taught. There was nothing closer to endgame than the raids for us, which speaks lowly upon the other issue of no true endgame, and that raids, although easy can be very hard without communication. This is why we're leaving. DE slapped us in the face with little warning. I rather spend my time on another game that doesn't treat it's dedicated players like what Destiny 2 experienced. - MR18. Began raiding at MR7. Never bothered to increase MR because MR means nothing.
The biggest problem with raids was organizing a party you only get the reward once per day, and with no matchmaking it was extremely hard to find players, I remember back when my 30 person clan was active my and the other leaders would have to fill spots all the time with out getting an arcane. As for the upkeep AKA "We are bad at programing so we're sweeping this under the rug" that's really lame.
All I can say is that the true end game content is Eidolon hunting and Sorties. The more DE push out new content the more older content such as Raid, Frames , weapons, and other content will be neglected. Question why do we PVP and Arkwing in the first place?
DE went from: a good daikyu change to literally the same shit
Daikyu
Mastery Rank increased from 0 to 10
Physical damage changed from 20% Impact, 60% Puncture and 20% Slash to 30% Impact, 40% Puncture and 30% Slash
Charge speed increased from 1.75 to 1 secs -----
Critical chance increased from 20% to 30% ----the only changes that matter
Damage decreased from 500 to 420
Daikyu
Mastery Rank increased from 0 to 10
Physical damage changed from 20% Impact, 60% Puncture and 20% Slash to 30% Impact, 40% Puncture and 30% Slash
Charge speed increased from 1.75 to 1 secs
Charge can now be held indefinitely
Damage decreased from 500 to 460
oh i saw that comment but i like how that person forgot that they said you needed to kill things to charge the orbs making that last part quite invalid further more the last time they showed player stats on a dev stream, it was shown that on a given weekend approx 1.29% of the online players were raiding, frankly now im glad raids are dead(for now) since killing a terralyst is more alone the lines of what id have liked in a raidish scenario then to arcane prices should drop nicely and things that players need might be more affordable now, the only reason they were expensive being mostly due to how few people had them since most of us thought the raids were sht aside from how good these arcanes were.
I came for some fresh, flavourful content...
But all I taste is salt
im glad they removed it. it was a fucking mess and im glad it's gone.
Giovanni Garcia They aren’t deleting them tho
Better to remove it for a few years, if that's even how long it will be, and bring back an improved version than to leave it as the festering, elitist corpse it is right now.
To be honest dropping arcanes in eidolons are a pain the ass especially when ur team doesnt have the correct team and the correct weapon build it takes a lot of time. Even if squads are faster u will still need a good build and a good amp for the team to even accept u and with that u have to grind more in poe which can make u burn out really quick especially the ores and fish. Overall, if DE wants the majority of the players to get arcanes, make amps blueprints or every cetus blueprints to be acquired from space as well rather than this, the cetus wisp arent even tradable wtf?
dang huy nguyen phuc weird,i usually take like,15 minutes to take 1 down
mostly because of my mote amp
we went against a eidolon as a half-assed 2 man team.
we won but it suicide bombed our last lives.
was the best experience i had in the game (not kidding it was really fun!)
Man that almost sounds like a raid.
lol i solo those mother fuckers EZ if your squad is shit maybe you are awell no offense dude but theres a matchmaking now for eidelon hunts win win i guess
To solo, just Sniper with harkonar scope, invincible frame and T1 amp. Even faster now, due to lowering the armor they have.
I've known about raids for two Yeats and I frankly had no desire to bother with them ever after seeing what they were about. I think that development and maintenance could be better use especially speeding up the newer content they've been working on.
remember when we had statistics released, and raids were around 2% of the missions ever completed or something like that, along with companion statistics etc
Why are raids important? What do you get from them?
yes, the war will continue
(dont hurt me. pls end it)
I guess now that the raids are dead, you could argue that there is a *War Within* the community now.
I'm not funny I know.
The couple times I played them, it was a complete shit show, the puzzles felt awkward were unnecessarily obnoxious and it was not particularly easy to find people to do the raids. I'd pretty much forgotten about them up until now and have had a perfectly fine time in the game since. I don't think many people are gonna miss them, aside from hardcore veterans who played them ever so infrequently.
The dark sector rn is an early concept though ...
Exactly.
What Warframe REALLY needs is to get it's raids completely reworked. Of course, that's a lot of time (and consequentially, money) to redo everything, but all they need to do is make them more fun, make the basic versions of raids acessible to mid-game players AND CALL ATTENTION TO IT, give them a quest, exclusive weapon drops, rare mods, etc... And to late-game players give them a harder and more rewarding version of it.
Raids have the potential to be awesome, and if they get it to be as awesome as it can and get the players attention to it there will be more than enough traffic to justify the upkeep of the gamemode, and the players will get a way nicer raid system
Mei Houwang this.
An MR 22 here.........Defuq are raids???
How do you run raids anyway?
I’ve been playing since summer 2014 and I’ve played LoR one time. It was one of the biggest shitshows I’ve ever experienced in Warframe. I hated it (also doesn’t help that I got at arcane healing), so I personally don’t care that they have been removed.
So fuck everyone who likes them?
I've never done a raid because I don't have 7 friends
You can do them with four players too
Oh boy all 10 raid players are gonna storm dehq
You remove interception draco and now this? smh ;'(
You are so right Tahetalius
It’s kinda understandable as to why they removed it rather than abandoning it like other games do with ‘extra’ game modes. Better to see your family dog put down than to see it suffer in pain before it dies.
Honestly I would have done more raids if more than a select few arcanes were worth the effort. Spending more than 30 minutes only to get a shit arcane felt like time wasted. I just wanted endgame content to have worthwhile rewards, even for the more common drops. It felt like pre-tower key void runs where you would get resources or 2k credit for the majority of your void runs. Tower keys (as well as endless void missions) added some difficulty and guaranteed primes or forma for each run (and guaranteed rotations in endless missions). But then the relic system came along and made the void nearly pointless and lowered the value Primes held in the community. I’m fine with Primes being easier to get now, but I still want the void to have rewards worth getting. Anywho, back the trials, all I wanted was for them to have better overall rewards, not making them easier for lower level players. So if arcanes do become easier to get, I’m honestly fine with that since most weren’t that great, but if DE do bring back trials I want some amazing loot, as well for anything else they dub endgame. Sortie rewards are still a joke as is (outside of the occasional riven). And while I don’t want trials (or endgame content) to become trivialized and too easy, I do agree that these kinds of systems or features need to be made more apparent to the entire playerbase as they begin to reach higher MR and obtain better gear. It certainly didn’t help that nowhere in the game did it tell you raids even existed. If a player didn’t tell you, or if you weren’t curious enough of the arcane tab in the foundry to look it up, you probably weren’t even aware that raids existed in warframe. I pray that on the return of raids, or their replacement, that they will remain higher tier content that is more well known or made apparent to players reaching a certain point in the game and that the rewards are all worth the effort and investment. Sure not all rewards should have the same level of rarity or rank, but none of them should feel as if they aren’t worth getting.
"God knows nobody wants to play destiny 2 just to raid"
You sir earned a sub.
Recent DE actions made me quit the game. After over 12.000 hours on steam and 5.000 hours spent in MISSIONS in-game profile i am done.
I see no future for this game looking at DE's actions.
Avereon KSE Only 12 hours? You must have really disliked it then :o
Only joking. pls no hurt
Idk why people try to justify the existence of raids using the existence of conclave as a example. Conclave is actually the only PvP mode that we can play nowadays. Comparing a PvP dedicated mode with a glitched CO-OP mode isn't right. The point that DE tried to bring was that they needed to fix raids and that this game mode wasn't being played by mid-end game players at all. Surely they are trying to make us play more PoE. Surely they are trying to make the game more noob friendly. But they are surely trying to make WF a less glitched and more enjoyable game for everyone. I don't really hate DE, but I blame them for THEIR own game issues. As every game company, they are trying to keep the game healthy. And a healthy game means a great community as well. Changes are a good thing when they are well executed. Let's hope that's the case this time...
Leopards can run
Eagles can fly
But humans,
Can only try...
That's all.
Raids are incredibly boring though. And let's be honestly, the only reason Zanagoth has his successful raid videos are because he does something different like '8 Operators Only' or "2 Man JV". I guarantee he would not be getting the views he does if it was just a regular run with the usual frames.
I'm fine with removal of raids but can we at least have a stat in our profile of how many LoRs/JVs we've done
Sooo wait , if raids are removed then the only way of getting arcanes is via sectors?
(Also im ok with them being removed, they were shit anyways, 1800 hours in and still not enjoying those trials)
No, it's via the new Eidolons but they weren't added with the same updates as the new Eidolons because they are scared that people would abuse an exploit DE has found so they're keeping them for a next update.
Chips Light you mean the new teralysts
If there is one think I learned from DevStreams is: Rebecca has no normal clothes.
she's the fashion frame person of DE