The Baseball Hall of Fame is a Joke…
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- Опубліковано 25 січ 2023
- In this video I talk about the tarnished reputation of the national baseball hall of fame and why not having players like Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Pete Rose and many others in, hurts its reputation…
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Do you think the Baseball HOF is as respected as it should be?
The fans should vote
@@keyshawnscott12 absolutely not
@@gkdunch well why not please explain your reasoning
I think what would make sense is to have HOF players be allowed to have a percentage of the vote. They know who is the best because they've played against them on a yearly basis and they won't be biased or idiots like some of the voters we have today who don't vote for a single person on the ballot.
The fact that people who are into baseball as well as other sports talk about this subject, every day shows that there is some kind of concern at all. Personally, I think there needs to be a three faction vote for this honor, one being the baseball writers, the other, being the fans, and the final faction being the players/coaches. I would definitely keep the veterans committee for the players who pass the 10 year threshold as well as non-player inductees
The HOF was officially broken when Bud Selig got in. Total disgrace. The chief facilitator of the PED era. The voters did a good job getting Marvin Miller, Buck O'Neil and Bud Fowler in. But overall, I do see lots of inconsistencies in the voting. The history of not having unanimous votes for some of these players is another joke (Mays, Aaron, Ruth...). The writers just seem like a bunch of sanctimonious twits.
Not unanimous on griffey but a closer gets unanimous(rivera). The hall and the self righteous aholes that vote are a joke.
U 100 % wrong U FORGOT the union
and players association didn't want testing till congress was involved..
Pedro Martines started to decline
When MLB started testing....
@@camionerosfurgoneros5915 And this absolve Selig because?
Every commissioner who gets a 2nd term gets in. Manfred will be in one day.
@@camionerosfurgoneros5915 I'm 100% wrong on what? You are right about the union. Orza and Fehr miscalculated the public perception. I'm sure Pedro and others were all on PEDs. It's amazing that Big Popi gets away w/o criticism.
I truly believe that Ken Griffey Jr. should have been voted in unanimously. He missed it by 3 votes and makes me wonder... what were those three guys drinking that night? The HOF is a bit of a joke now...🤨
They voted no because there are some people who believed that since Ruth was not unanimous, then no one should. Not saying I agree. But that’s why
@@chrissolar2543 but they voted Mariano rivera unanimously. The hall is a joke.
I can't speak for those 3, but as someone who wouldn't have voted for Griffey myself if I was a writer, here's my rationale:
The 2016 ballot was an extremely strong one, and I believed there were more than 10 hall-of-fame candidates on it - in fact I think you could make an argument that at least *20* players that year were HOF-caliber.
Because I can only vote for 10, that means I need to drop at least one player that I otherwise think is worthy. That means I need to vote tactically on who to drop.
Griffey was by far the most popular and beloved candidate on the ballot. Because it was obvious he'd get in the hall no matter what, with or without my vote, simply chucking him an extra vote wouldn't do anything; you don't get any bonus points for going over 75%. Thus, he'd be by far the most expendable candidate to drop. I could simply rely on the other writers to do their job, and instead use my own vote towards a struggling candidate who would need it a lot more.
@@toadeightyfive if every person has this rationale he falls of the ballot in the first year. It’s flawed
Probably steroids
“The league” isn’t keeping them out, the writers are. Writers that hand in empty ballots year after year should lose their privilege to vote. I don’t expect everyone to use all 10 but some are making a mockery of the whole process
👍
Pete Rose agreed to the ban from Baseball because it meant that MLB would stop investigating his gambling. First he said he didn't gamble at all, then he said he didn't gamble on games he managed, then he said he didn't gamble against his team. There is no evidence he was gambling against his team, but the fact he accepted the ban so the league wouldn't find out if he did is very suspect.
No one ever brings that up. Pete Rose could have owned that he bet on baseball when it was discovered. Pete Rose CHOSE to deny and signed an agreement that he was permanently banned from the game in exchange for the gambling investigation being dropped.. This should never be a continuous discussion. Pete Rose agreed to never being the Hall of Fame. No one twisted his arm.
@@Markdfadf Not to mention the guy only admit it because he had a book coming out. Plus his defenders claiming that he only bet to win because of his said so had certain contexts that wouldn't help his case.
Rose did not bet against his Team, He bet to win. How can he bet against his team To lose if he slides head first into first base and every base , Does it look like He trying to lose ?
@@GeorgeYoung-uh5by What about the games he didn't bet on?
@@GeorgeYoung-uh5by- it doesn’t matter which team he bet on. He broke the number one rule in baseball - if you are in any way affiliated with MLB (as a player, manager, coach, owner, or in the front office) and you get caught gambling on baseball, you are banned for life. There are no exceptions. This is to preserve the integrity of the game. Pete Rose knew full well what the penalty was if he got caught doing so and he did it anyway. Yes, it’s a shame that the all time hits leader is not in Cooperstown, but that’s of his own doing.
Maybe the guy that didn't vote for Jeter figured, "Hey Jeter is getting in anyway. I'll give my vote to someone that needs it".
I would say though Jeter not getting unanimous is fair because most of his gold gloves were not deserved as he was regularly not even in the top 5 for fielding as a shortstop, but still won anyway because well he is Jeter. The fact remains that defensive metrics and stats have indicated that he has cost his team over 150 runs because of his poor defense. His offense sure is enough for the Hall and I have no question he is a Hall of Famer, but when 1 writer fairly used the gold gloves he had earned as a contradiction to his poor defensive metrics, suddenly the Hall is a sham and cannot be trusted to vote players in fairly.
I have been to the baseball, ice hockey, football and basketball HOFs. Only Cooperstown gave me goosebumps.
Pete Rose didn’t just gamble as a player but he also had multiple affairs with underaged girls while he was married with kids and a player. Anyone with that kind of history doesn’t deserve to be in the hall of fame no matter how good he is
You were there when he was young?
4256 hits
The Jordan Lebron debate is silly, because Wilt, Bill Russell, Kareem, and Larry Bird all should be considered at their level or above.
Wait so no one being inducted unanimously for the Hall's entire history up until Mo was fine. But as soon as Jeter isn't unanimous, then it's an integrity problem? That's frankly a silly argument.
Big time, while I was glad Mo got in unanimously but the fact is this should have happened much earlier. There's really no logical excuse for anyone to not vote for guys like Griffey, Seaver, Mantle, Williams, Mays and Frank Robinson among others. The first few decades were only excusable as the early years would have crazy logjams but after that...
Probably more egregious is exactly WHO they gave the unanimous vote to. I have nothing against Mariano Rivera, he was excellent, but the Hall has had incredible difficulty putting in relievers because simple WAR can’t really quantify their value, and Mo only got the vote because he closed out five World Series. Thankfully, we now have saves, and more voters are focusing on their ERA and K/9 numbers to elect them, hence why Billy Wagner is rising. But the fact that a reliever got in unanimously and a position player never has is mind-boggling.
Also, Ichiro for unanimous selection. MAKE IT HAPPEN.
@@iamhungey12345 Statistically, Jeter's closest comps are Scott Rolen, Alan Trammell, Barry Larkin, Ryne Sandberg and Lou Whitaker. Do you think they should have been voted in unanimously?
@@Markdfadf Some played different positions so there's an issue. Trammell should have gotten in earlier though.
@@iamhungey12345 All the guys I listed were infielders. They have similar roles. And shortstop gets the biggest WAR boost, arguably too much of a boost over third and second.
You are wrong or misguided on many fronts:
Pete Rose: Betting while as a player or coach is not something that should just get you kicked out of baseball, generally it should land you in prison. It doesn't matter if you only bet for your team. That is a hard line that needs to be maintained. (Also the stuff with underaged girls, but that's just above and beyond)
Derek Jeter: he's not even in the same class of player as Mariano Rivera. He should not have been a unanimous inductee if the standard is Mo or bust.
Steroids: the double standard is the issue. David Ortiz should not be in the HoF if Bonds can't be.
Pete rose, Barry bonds, Roger clemens, and a few others deserve a spot in the hall. With no asterisk. If they get asterisks? Those that took greenies should get asterisks. Period
I remember seeing that the first induction class that Babe Ruth and Walter Johnson weren't induced unanimously either... But I could be wrong
It was a mother of logjam.
Hall of Fame players should be in the Hall of Fame,yes them,Dale Murphy,Steve Garvey!!!
Pete Rose deserves a spot.
He's NEVER getting in.
Gambling sounds like child’s play compared to other stuff. Pete was just being confident about his own team. If he bet against The Reds, that would be corrupt, but that’s not the case.
@@paedahe4975 Rose says he didn't bet against the Reds. Rose has also said that he didn't bet on baseball till he said that he did but that he didn't bet on Reds games until he admitted on betting on Reds games but that he didn't bet against them. If I were to place a bet I would say that MLB has proof he bet against the Reds.
@@davidlewis5929 Then again, one of the biggest points of the "he should be in" faction is that guys like Gaylord Perry - a notorious spitballer that did it decades after it was banned - are in with no problem
Word.
Mays, Aaron, Mantle and none of the other greats were unanimous either. Rivera was a 1 inning pitcher, Jeter played in NY and got tons of press. Mays and Mantle were considered better players than Aaron because they got all the press because both played in NY. Yes, Mays moved to SF, but the west coast press pimped him too.
Finally, Scott Rolen did not barely squeak in to the Hall. 3 out of every 4 voters cannot be said to squeak in. The only other 75% threshold I can think of is amending the US Constitution.
I wouldnt have voted for him. Very good player. Had Hall potential if hadnt become injury prone. But, it is what it is. Still a respectable career.
@@demonkingbadger6689 He really only got in because the Hall didn't want to have another year where nobody got voted in like 2021. They got bailed out that year because COVID pushed Jeter and Walker's induction a year later, so they still got money from Hall Of Fame weekend. No offense to Fred McGriff and Scott Rolen, but how many people are gonna turn out for him in comparison to Jeter, one of the most popular players of all time, and Walker, who is the best player in Rockies history and beloved in Colorado
@@southsider3542 First of all, you’re acting as if the BBWAA acts as a collective, when they don’t. They each vote a certain way and that adds up to a result; they don’t plan to vote people in and out and make money from the HOF week, things just happen. The VC is the one that votes as a collective. Second, you forgot McGriff. And even with him and Rolen - never underestimate Braves and Cardinals fans. They are loud, vocal, and passionate, and they’re going to show support for players that helped them win the World Series.
@@Gemnist98 Hooray - finally a rational response.
Who cares how many people show up for the induction?
Even the VC doesn't vote as a collective. Half the committee is made up of living HoF members, whose recent standards are usually pretty high (the Baines vote being a notable exception).
@@Gemnist98 I wouldn't be surprise if this helps Freddie Freeman's case in the future. He's on a good track for now but his body of work will depend on whether or not he makes it past 400 home runs and close to 3k hits to make his case acceptable enough.
andruw jones still not being in just does not make sense...
Furthermore, you cannot talk about Pete Rose without bringing up Shoeless Joe Jackson. I think there will come a time that both are enshrined. As for the unanimous issue, nobody cares. It's irrelevant.
Unlike Rose, Shoeless Joe got to be on the ballot twice. He received about 1% of the vote each time. Let that sleeping dog lie.
I dont think they should get in. But, i agree both or neither.
@@ronaldwayne7092 Sorry, until MLB reconsiders Shoeless Joe, don't hold your breath on Pete Rose.
I still believe that the Baseball HOF is prestigious. It’s a great honor for the players and gets fans excited, I say that from personal experience when my favorite player Jim Thome was inducted. He went in as an Indian and even fans that were from other teams he played for were there! By far one of the coolest baseball events I’ve been to!
I seriously wonder about that. I've already seen famous Cleveland Indians historically revised to be "Guardians". Its gonna be easier to erase the indian heritage than the Redskin 3 super bowl victory heritage thats for sure.
While I disagree with this .... I read where some of the voters don't vote for a player like Jeter if they know they will get in as they know they only have 10 votes each year and want to make sure other players might receive their vote.
Mariano Rivera is the all time leader in saves and is regarded as the greatest closer that ever lived. Derek Jeter isn't the all time leader in any category nor did he ever win a MVP any year. Derek is a good hitter and below average fielder. I can see why he wasn't voted in unanimously.
He did win mvp, once!
@@aviationandmore1 what year ?
@@VictorRodriguez-qn1kz wait never mind I must be confusing him with someone else my bad
@@aviationandmore1 he came close in 06' I thought he should have won it but other then that no higher than 7th.
Yet Bonds isn’t in. The greatest player of all time
I put the Baseball Hall of Fame in the same bucket as the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Two completely illegitimate outdated institutions that both have superstars that got massively snubbed (why it took Deep Purple so long to be inducted has me stumped) and middling role players inducted because of being media favourites.
Did people ever take the Rock Hall seriously? Rock music was largely countercultural for a while, and the counterculture never gave a damn about what some institution thought.
How many "middling role players" have gotten in in the last 30 years from media votes? I can't think of even one.
Griffey not getting 100% said it even better than Jeter not getting 100%. Griffey was the face of the league for more than a decade, at that point in the game there were only two players anyone could reasonably say were the best in the league, Griffey Jr and Bonds. Sure Griffey got hampered a ton by injuries but the guy still swatted 630 homers and nearly had 3000 hits. All without using roids in the era when it seemed like EVERYONE was using them. He was probably the most widely loved and liked baseball player of all time as he was so many people's favorite player despite them not being mariner or reds fans.
Well the HOF when it comes to 100% votes honestly that doesn't matter sure it is a big deal but getting in is the big deal. One that i would have used is Craig Biggio as before he got on the ballot all 3000 hitters got in on their first ballot. Biggio was on his 3rd year meaning a guy who got something that should have been automatic first ballot had to wait until his 3rd year now granted it made that 2015 class amazing with Biggio, Pedro, Randy, and John Smoltz getting in at the same time. Now since that 2019 class there has only been at most 2 guys who got in one year and there was even one where no one got in. Now Pete Rose the issue is he did the deed sure the punishment was harsh but every time MLB gives him a chance to prove himself he proves why they banned him in the first place. The Riods users while yes those stats are amazing and some even saved baseball but saying they get to the HOF comes up with an issue. That issue is when you put them in you are basically saying hey look we dont care that you used PED's and gave yourself an unfair advantage and forever tainted your stats. That is the message that they would send by doing that which is what they feared. The only way you get from out under PED's is if you were caught and punished then come back and have more amazing seasons.
By and large the HofF has done its job well. It put in too many from the 1920-40 period and not enough from the 1871-1919 period. Better to put in too many rather than too few, so long as they are qualified.
Yup HOF is an absolute joke that I no longer care about despite the fact that I’m a lifelong diehard baseball fan. The reporters/writers who vote hold grudges against certain players because of the way they treated them when they were playing, case in point Big Papi gets in on his first try while A-Rod, Bonds, and Clemens get shutout. The writers/reporters have ruined the HOF, plain and simple
Want another example? Carlos Beltran gets 46% of the vote. He was the RINGLEADER of the 2017 sign-stealing scandal but writers like Matt Snyder of CBS Sports (who doesn't have a vote, thank goodness) say it doesn't matter because it was the last year of his career. However, he says Jose Altuve - who hardly participated in the scandal per Carlos Correa and others - "seems much more tied to the scandal" according to Snyder. Yes, the guy who arranged the damn thing gets a pass but the guy who distanced himself as soon as he found out they were banging trash cans when he was batting is "much more tied to the scandal". Ignorance, just complete (and willful) ignorance.
the hall was NEVER good
I agree
And curt schilling
So Harold Baines and Minnie Minosa are in the HOF, but not DON MATTINGLY or THURMAN MUNSON?
Mariano comes in for 1 inning gets a save throws maybe 10 pitches wow
They simply have to write in Steve Garvey
If you break the rules than you don't deserve to be in the HOF. If they let Pete Rose in then they would have to let everyone else in.
Players in the 60's took uppers. You still have to hit the ball.
Henry Aaron should have enter 100percent look at his numbers
Nobody got 100percent not Ruth Cobb Williams no one . Mariano got 100 percent. And he pitches 1 inning every 5 games!. Every player who hit 500 hrs made it. Before 200. Now there are 7 players with 500 or more hrs. Who didn't make it. And Ozzie Smith made Ii. With 25 hrs in 18 years because he is a good Short stop
If you guys think the MLB Hall of Fame is a joke, you should see the WWE Hall of Fame. XD
I think Joe Carter should be in the HOF! Look at how many years he had over 100 rbis. For third baseman I think Ron Cey and Gary Gaetti should be in . I would like to Vida Blue get more consideration. As far as Bonds is concerned, I don't think he started to used steroids around 2001. Had he retired, before the 2001 season, he would have gone in first vote. If jack Morris is in, Tommy John should be also.
It is nice that you think that but Joe Carter would be the worst player to ever get in the Hall of Fame. Literally. I don't know who would be worse. He has a 19.5 WAR which is lower than almost all the relief pitchers in the Hall and they are a special class. Joe Carter is not a top 100 right fielder. Ron Cey is debatable at least. Gary Gaetti was solid. He is pretty far being a Hall of Fame. Vida is not close. Jack Morris is statistically the second worst starting pitcher of the last 100 years to get in just ahead of Catfish Hunter. Tommy John has a very real case and I bet he gets in eventually.
@@Markdfadf How many seasons with 100 or more rbis did Joe Carter have? That speaks more than some saber metric. I know Joe carter will never get in, but anyone overlooking his 100 rbi seasons is blind. He had twice as many 100 rbi seasons as Mickey Mantle. Yoo can say what you want, those numbers speak for themselves.
@@McDago100 Well.. No.. RBIs don't say more than WAR. RBIs are heavily determined by teammates and position in the lineup and RBIs say nothing about a player's ability to field, base run, and get on base so that they can score. Joe Carter not only didn't hit for average (.259), he also didn't walk. His On Base Percentage is .308 which is the worst I've ever seen for a name player by a wide margin. Joe Carter was a terrible fielder. And his offensive ability was literally barely above the league average. He had a career 105 OPS+. (League average is 100). Mickey Mantle had a 172 OPS+ which makes him one of the greatest hitters of all time.
@@Markdfadf Whatever stat boy! I hope you like the game today of walks, homers and strikeouts. I hope you like a pitching game of few shutouts or complete games. When I look at Mike Trout and Bryce Harper, I roll my eyes. They strikeout a lot, walk a lot, and get injured a lot.
The amount of players who got in a long time ago but the writers are holding everything over players nowadays. This is just terrible
HOF=Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, Dave Parker, and one of my favorite players Andrew Jones I hope they all make it in they deserve it. ⚾️
Jeter should not have been unanimous. He's quite literally the worst defender ever. Scott Rolen was a better player
Certain players being banned for very specific reasons does not mean the Hall of Fame has no credibility. That's so typical of today's way of thinking.
The HOF is not MLB. They are a private company and can do whatever they want. If fans don't like it then STOP patronizing it.
We ALL know that'll never happen 😂😂😂😂
I know Jeter had a Sussy Baka DRS but like cmon he’s a unanimous hall of famer
I dunno, defense should be a key factor, especially when you’re a shortstop. He’s still a worthy first-ballot pick though, largely because of his offense.
Jeter was below average defensively. He's not HOF Caliber.
@@ForestOfSleep So he should have been kept out despite his offensive numbers?
Thats odd thing when your comparing Mariano Rivera vs Derek Jeter to start off Rivera is consider the G.O.A.T as Closer so him getting 100% would be why compared to Jeter who has the numbers to be a HOF but theres better SS then him in the hall.
Like Cal Ripken who is arguably the goat ss
I think everyone mentioned in this video should be in the HoF eventually. I do think anyone that got popped for PEDs after 2005 like Manny and ARod should have to make it on the players ballot and not get to go through the BBWA process, and I think the BBWA process will get way better after more old voters kick the can
I guess by now, with this video in mind, as well as how this process is playing out, now you have a clear understanding as to why the rock ‘n’ roll Hall of Fame and its voting process is a POS as well
It's a joke when WAR says Rolen is better than Tony Gwynn. I don't care how good his glove was, that's ridiculous.
Other guys that were worse than Rolen according to WAR
- Manny Ramirez
- Eddie Murray
- Ivan Rodriguez
- Carlton Fisk
- Edgar Martinez
- Robinson Cano
- Ernie Banks
- Miguel Cabrera
- Craig Biggio
- Willie McCovey
- Joey Votto
- Dave Winfield
Would you take Scott Rolen over any of those guys? I sure wouldn't
It's the reason why I can't take people seriously when they try to use WAR as a sole measurement of how good the players were. Plus the name itself "Win Above Replacement" is a clear indication that the context of the estimate is based from how the team were as well. I mean in 1986 Teddy Higuera had a slightly higher WAR than Clemens and believe me there are retards who thinks the Cy Young that year should have been given to Higuera based on that alone.
srry i was gone kinda og but good vid keep it up
Jeter was one of the most overrated players of all time and there's a video out there to break down that fact. His defense was average at best and poor at worst and one voter who decided that he shouldn't be unanimous fist ballot should be commended for that.
5 GG, 5 Rings, 310 BA, 3465 Hits. At 6'3" he could get balls Volpe waves to.
@@jimbob9828 shouldn't have any GGs
If you want to see a REAL joke, just look at the Rock 'n Roll hall of fame.
I believe it’s crazy that the players get punished, but Selig and the owners suffer no consequences.
As far as Pete Rose goes, the BBWAA should have been allowed to vote for him. If he got in the HoF, so be it. If not, that’s fine too. The point is they should have been allowed to consider his case.
Bo Hart never made it to the Hall of Fame. This proves it is a freaking joke. One of the greatest players of all time and he's not in, BS!
In all fairness bonds/Clemons were hall of farmers before steroids, and Sammy sosa’s only link to steroids was the fact he was named in a report in the 2010s, the same report David Ortiz was named in
We don’t know when Clemens did steroids
Bonds was NOT a hofer before steroids.
Mariano nor Jeter deserved more votes than Griffey. Made 0 sense to me.
It’s because he only ever played for small-market teams, plain and simple.
I don't really get what point you're trying to make with the Jeter thing. You said it yourself, almost no one has been voted in unanimously. Jeter is obviously a worthy hall of famer, but he is nowhere near the greatest player of all time. How is it any worse that he wasn't unanimous than it is that guys like Ken Griffey Jr, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Greg Maddux, Rickey Henderson, and so many other all-time greats that weren't unanimous, some not even close. Why choose Jeter, probably one of the more overrated players in MLB history despite his deserving Hall of Fame status, to illustrate that point?
Real simple. If you can't tell the story of baseball without the guy, he should be in the hall. It's an absolute farce that guys like Bonds, A Rod, Manny, Clemens, and Rose aren't in.
The steroid guys I’m agnostic on. The Rose argument misses the point every time. He broke the ONE RULE you can never break, the one rule that was plastered on the wall of every clubhouse and he did it pathologically. It’s a totally different discussion because if you send the message that eventually you’ll be forgiven for gambling on the game, that opens the door for some really bad shit. And the “derrrr they allow betting apps now” argument is even sillier. He bet on his own fucking team!!! That is completely unforgivable, not to mention there was a precedent set 70 years earlier.
Also, it’s pretty widely accepted that he committed statutory rape many times. There is a character clause, like it or not.
@@Badtown1988 yeah, ultimately, he committed the same crime as the Black Sox, and at least one of them (Jackson) had a Hall level career. You cant just make an exception for one guy.
Note: i also think, Cicotte had an otherwise borderline hall career. But, he is a Black Sox so it matters not.
@@demonkingbadger6689 The thing is Shoeless Joe didn't actually take any money. His one crime was he didn't report the ones that did.
I don’t believe that steroid users should get in. But to allow some steroid users while completely banning some others is outrageous. Also, let’s not forget how Kurt Schilling isn’t allowed in the baseball HOF when literally every player since the early 1900s were all racists. 💀
Jeter wasn't good defensively.
If you want a real laugh take a look at the Basketball HOF.
The Hall of Fame has turned into the Hall of Very Good
The inductions of Scott Rolen, Jack Morris, and Harold Baines have proven this
@@southsider3542Jack Morris and Harold Baines are horrible inductions. Scott Rolen is top 10 in multiple offensive categories for third basemen and is easily a top 5 all time with the glove so I don't think he should be mentioned with those guys.
@@southsider3542 and Larry Walker
@@southsider3542 lee smith too. It’s embarrassing he’s in the hof
@@southsider3542 Scott Rolen was better than Derek Jeter. He has a 70 career WAR with below average plate appearance. He was a no doubt Hall of Famer. Morris and Baines are horrible choices but not unprecedented throughout history.
this video fails to mention that countless numbers of players used amphetamines and steroids throughout the 1900’s until 1991 when PEDS were officially made illegal. Even then, baseball didn’t really start legitimately drug testing until 2003. How many players are in the Hall of fame that used substances to enhance performance? Not to mention, there are plenty of players who simply do not beling on that ballot. Why is Alfonso Soriano not in the hall and countless other amazing players? It blows my mind.
Jordan is the GOAT. No Debate!
You *CANNOT* tell me Ortiz didnt take the needle. C'mon man
It’s actually never been proven Sosa took steroids
So what did he take?
If this is a joke, it just also goes along with the MVP voting, too. When ARod won it with the Texas Rangers, he batted .299, hit 40 plus (I think) home runs, and many RBI’s. But the Rangers finished in last place in their division. How valuable was he really, then? He just had a great year, period. I could have played in his position, and they would not have finished lower in their division than they did, and I would have played for only $1 million, not $247 million.
Yes the HOF criteria is way off. The MLB HOF is so Flaccid. Im no longer interested in the MLB HOF its lost all of its luster with me. The HOF committe hates my San Francisco Giants. There Bias.
Jordan will outlast lebron. It will be Jordan vs the next one soon
I'm sorry but I don't agree with you. I think the HoF is doing the right thing!!
Jeter missing one vote doesn't bother me one bit as so many great missed many votes and I am more surprised with Mo getting all the votes... But in general, HOF voting credential is questionable with roid for sure. We have seen a number of players with roid connection getting in and I do believe betting on his own team is less sin than cheating the game by juicing...
Everyone knows the hall of 'very good' has become a joke. The woke MLB and it's 'inclusion' policies. Hypocrisy at its finest.
100% agree with you. Pete Rose should absolutely be in the HOF. Betting on your team to win does not alter your performance, or if it did if anything it made him better. Clearly when you are the all time hits leader by a mile, you weren’t trying to make your team lose games because of bets you placed. Dude was money motivated and the money he had bet on his team made him play better.
Also guys like Bonds, ARod, Sosa, etc should absolutely be in the HOF. If they weren’t going to be allowed in the HOF, they shouldn’t have been allowed to play baseball anymore at all once their steroid use was discovered. The fact that they played the games and set the records they did, means they should be in. Case closed.
They have hall of fame and records backwards. People like Bonds and McGwire should be in the Hall but have their records with an asterisk so they do not top the recordbooks. Aaron Judge and Maris should be at the top. Pete Rose should absolutely be in the Hall. I also think they should have added an asterisk on the Astros for their cheating on their world series.
David Ortiz tested positive for steroids, and was a first time selection in the baseball Hall of Fame. On the other hand Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and Sammy Sosa, never tested positive. But were found guilty based on the court of public opinion.
The baseball Hall of Fame is a complete joke. For someone who lived and saw most of these guys play since the 1970’s, there is so much injustice in who gets in and who is out. To me the Hall of Fame is a popularity contest on who the writers and former player liked. I could give plenty of examples of players who got in that were not even the best player on their team during a block of time. Like over a five year period. When I think something worthy of fame it’s the very best. Baseball has done a huge injustice to young people who never saw these guys play. You can also say the same about American history as well. So in the end why complain about it, history is written by the victors or persons in power. Just because they say it, does not make it truth. Also speak truth, and facts to power!
There is no public provided proof that Rose didn't bet against the team he managed or played for. What we do know about Rose and his betting is that he says he didn't bet against his team but he also said he never bet on baseball while a manager or player, followed by that he did bet on baseball but not on games involving the Reds, followed by that he did bet on games involving the Reds while he was manager but just not against them. Do I know for a fact that Rose bet against the Reds, no, but I do know that Rose has always lied about his betting and that posted in every clubhouse at every level of baseball for Rose's entire career is the rule that says you do not bet on baseball or you will be banned for life. Also Rose accepted his punishment very quickly so you know that baseball has something devastating against him.
And whether he bet on the Reds or against, matters none. The same punishment by the rules.
But, in any case, whatever the view on Pete Rose on reinstatement must be the same for the Black Sox, so if Rose is in the Hall, so is Shoeless Joe.
The piece everyone ignores is when someone doesn't bet is just as important as when they do. If I bet on 120 out of 162 games what does that tell a bookie I might owe some money too? That tells the bookie to bet heavy on those games I don't bet.
Scott Rolen?? R U kidding me. Yeah it’s a joke. This guy was a mediocre player.
Scott is a absolute joke of a hall of famer. I’m a big Chipper Jones fan an I sweated about him being first ballot. Some bad hitting shortstop makes it a joke tbh.
Tell me the story of baseball without Pete rose. You can't do it.
No person or player who tarnishes the integrity of the game, or cheats to gain an advantage, should never get in. That person should be banned for eternity.
They’ve all been cheating since baseball came into existence. The only difference is that the technology and expertise in cheating has evolved as the world and the game itself has evolved.
Munson
Bruh how come like no one gets in
scott rollen was a solid player don't get me wrong, this is just a weird pick.
I love baseball, but have barely heard of him.
@@paedahe4975 i mean he was a very servicable guy and put up some pretty decent numbers, but hof? it's just weird.
I mean a gold glove 3rd basemen with over 300 career home runs and 70 career war sounds alot like Brooks Robinson
@@DutchChattahoochee I agree.
@@mopac8233 jeff kent has better career numbers as a SECOND BASEMAN and hes not in. That's what I'd call a joke.
MLB HOF is turning into Hall of Pretty Good.
The Hall is a joke, but not primarily for the reasons you give. Your Jeter example is silly. The person who didn't vote for him didn't believe he shouldn't be in, as you said. He believed that there were OTHER people he wanted to give his vote to THAT YEAR. IN other words, there was someone who needed his support more than Jeter did, which was obviously true, since Jeter was going to cruise in. Jeter had ten years if he needed it. I think it's a joke that Mariano Rivera was elected unanimously, when he only pitched 1200 innings in his entire career, and other pitchers, like Tommy John, who pitched almost 5000 innings, isn't in. The biggest goof up, pitching wise, is Kevin Brown, who pitched for 19 years, and more than 3000 innings, and had the same ERA+ as Tom Seaver: 127. How can this guy have been ignored? In fact, he didn't even make it off the first ballot! Less than 5%! Now you see why the guy who ignored Jeter did so. Other guys need your vote, too. Other notable misses are Brian Giles who played 15 years and had a .400 OBP and .503 slugging percentage, playing excellent defensive CF and stealing bases here and there. He was a MUCH better player than Ichiro. So was LAnce Berkman, who didn't make it through the first year! A 144 career OPS+! That's better than two thirds of the hitters in the hall! Bonds should be in, because he's arguably the best player in history, and was one of the top candidates before he ever took steroids, starting at the age of 35. He had already won 3 MVPS, competing against a league where 90% of the players were taking steroids....including the pitchers! The only reason steroids was made a big deal, was because Congress got involved, in order to cover up the war crimes the USA was committing in Iraq. There was never a clear rule or a testing procedure against steroids until 2003, after these guys had been using. It was a memo that said "No illegal substances", but steroids were legal with a doctor's note, and they were legal over the counter in the Dominican Republic. Babe Ruth used illegal drugs: alcohol (during prohibition) and marijuana. Hank Aaron and many other stars admitting to using "greenies" (amphetamines) during the 70s. Steroids had been WIDELY used in the Big Leagues since the late 60s, according to respected pitcher and pitching coach, Tom House. I love Pete Rose, but his ban was legit. Gambling of any type in baseball cannot be tolerated, no matter which team one bets on. Baseball was almost ruined by a betting scandal in the early 20s. the anti-gambling rule is posted prominently in every clubhouse. Pete was given a chance to admit his guilt and atone, but he wouldn't do it. then when he finally admitted it, he wouldn't stop gambling, so he made his choice.
Clemens shoudl also be in...perhaps the greatest pitcher in history
Most players in the HOF, juiced. It has been going on since at least the 50s.
late-80's when that crap weightlifters used started creeping into professional sports. Bonds was a toothpick and so was McGwire when they were rookies and for several years afterward. You don't suddenly balloon up like they did just by hitting the gym.
@TheOinkBox the 50s, but I wouldn't say that Bonds and Mcgwire put on muscle suddenly, as they were skinny in their early 20s. Bond's monster season took 16 years and Mcgwire took 15 years. They could have definitely added muscle in all that time. The steroid era in baseball is when players abused steroids, but many players have been juicing since the 50s.
With the whole steroids debacle, I feel they should consider the players on the condition that the stats that they gained from PEDs should be omitted. For instance, Barry Bonds from 1986-1998 has incredible stats before taking steroids and should be let in on those stats ALONE. Same with Roger Clemons who had a HOF career before 1998 where he allegedly took PEDs and should be let in. However, players where a majority of their career they took PEDs shouldn't be let in.
TBH, the Baseball HOF should take notes from the NFL where they look at the player for their career alone rather than off-field or bad relationship with the press because it is letting so many HOF caliber players on the outside.
I sadly agree
Baseball hof sucks, they need to let more in, like 5 a year or something like the NFL does
No, too many in that dont deserve it. Can say the same for football and basketball
Not quiiiiiiiiiiite as bad as the RocknRoll HoF but getting close
Those who can’t do….writes about those who can. Rolen? COMPLETE JOKE
If they are going to pull this shit then why isn't Keith Hernandez in the Hall at this point?
Carlos Beltran, Todd Helton and Andruw Jones are three position players not tied to peds and all three are better than rolen!
You got to judge them by their position not against other positions
@@bradwinter25 I am, Andruw Jones has 434hr, 10 gold gloves and a 24.4 defensive war which is the most of any outfielder in history. He also made 5x All-Star games and had a 51 hr mlb leading season, and let's not forget, the other men who have 400 or more HRs and at least ten gold gloves are all in the hall of fame, Mays, Schmidt, Griffey Jr.
The Hall has been very consistent on the Steroid Era question. There are 8 players from that period who are not in and will not get in until some future time when the Hall decides to have a Steroid Era exception or wing. Those 8 are Bonds, Clemens, A-Rod, Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro, Manny, and Sheffield. If future committees decide to make a Steroid Era exception or have a Steroid Era wing, all 8 of them will make it.
Those same hypocritical writers built their careers praising those guys in the 90s. Until they come off their pedestal and vote them in, the hall is a joke. Come on, harold baines is in but not bonds? WHAT A JOKE!
It depends on what your standards are. There have been 20,000 major league players and fewer than 200 of them are in the HoF. Two players every year get in, out of 30-40 eligible retired players. If a player cannot objectively be considered among the top 200 all time (pitchers and hitters combined), then they do not meet the existing standards of the HoF. If you want to drop the awful selections of 60 years ago when many subpar players got in, you can drop the real number to 150, which is the 80 greatest players ever and the 70 greatest pitchers ever. That's a high standard.
Maybe the HoF should have 300 or 400 player inductees. Guys with 12-15 seasons who had a few big years and maybe an MVP or a few All-STar selections will be HoFers. Is that what you want? Also consider that the greatest hitter of the last three generations, and the greatest pitcher since 1970, are not in even though they are eligible.
At the end of the day, the argument is always the same: “Player I grew up with isn’t in the Hall, so the Hall sucks”. And they are always referring to Bonds and Clemens. Watch people, despite loathing him now in spite of the contrary evidence, say the same thing about Jose Altuve when he isn’t in on the first ballot.
I also really don’t like the “small hall” people. The Hall is perfectly exclusive as is, even if I would make it a bit more lenient for international players who play half their careers in MLB. What do they even mean by “best of the best”? Only the people with 100 WAR? Because that’s only 32 players and I’m PRETTY sure there are more great baseball players than that.
@@Gemnist98 yep. I come back to Kenny Lofton and Omar Vizquel. I love the guys, but to me, neither belongs. Omar is hanging in there based on GGs and hits but anyone who thinks Omar was ever greater than Lofton is out of their mind.
Barry, Roger and A-Rod ... the Hall needs them more than they need it, and they will get in through the back door eventually. The real case study seems to be Schilling. He has turned into this generation's Dick Allen, and Dick Allen was the worst teammate you could have back when.
The BBWAA shouldn’t even have a vote. Many of them never even played baseball. The Veterans committee should be the only way players get in. Who is better suited to determine if a player is worthy of the HOF than other HOFers.
When the committee is desperate to put guys in the Hall, that's how you get Scott Rolen in. Rolen was a good player, a great defender and a good hitter, but he wasn't great enough at his peak and he didn't have the longevity to warrant the Hall Of Fame selection. The same thing applies to guys like Bobby Grich and Lou Whitaker.
Rolen was never at any point the best player on his team and was arguably never the best third baseman in baseball. In Philly, Bobby Abreu was better. In St. Louis, Pujols AND Edmonds were better. In Cincinnati, Votto was better.
Like, if defense is so important for getting in the Hall. How the hell are Andruw Jones and Jim Edmonds not in? They were dominant fielders at one of the two most important positions in baseball and were hitters comparable to Rolen. Hell, I'd argue Jones was a better hitter than Rolen
The reason why we're even talking about Rolen is because the very best of the best are still not in the HOF. Now that's your opinion if you think he is or isn't a hall of famer. The bottom line is that the HOF is getting weak with the exception of a few coming up. More players who we thought weren't hall of fame material will be voted in because the standards have been lowered by preventing the best of the best from being let in.
You have to judge them against people who played the same position
Every commissioner has been inducted so far. If Manfred gets in then we'll know for sure its tainted. Though from a players standpoint I'm glad none of the major steroid users got in (though Pudge and Papi are outliers). Rose belongs in the hall no question.
I wouldn't be surprised if there are more juicers in the hall that we don't know of. Remember PEDs aren't a recent thing that popped up in the 1990s, there may have been players who used them to help prolong their careers.
Rolens war is 70. If he played in a bihher market hed be in-in. Its all about writers. Keith Hernandez is loved but mentioned. 50% of players do coke so he's not in bcuz of writers. Ortiz did drugs but writers like him so hes in. Bonds is hated so hes out. Rose is banned but they use him in Cincy when they want to make $$. At least mcgriff finally got in
Yep. It’s all about who the writers like personally which is ridiculous
If Rolen wasnt hurt so much, he would be a shoo in.
I wonder if McGriff could have gotten in sooner had he gotten 7 more homeruns.
The writers always hate the players guts like Bonds, Clemens because they don’t want to kiss their ass.
I believe the hall should have an entire building dedicated to the career of scot rolen....
I agree and disagree about the roids debate. For me, I don't think Sosa, McGwire, or Bonds deserves to be in the hall of fame. Jeff Bagwell worked his butt off for his stats, was a leader, and was outshined because he played in Houston. These players almost tarnished the image of baseball.
There were some rumors about Bagwell.
Is obvious Jeff Bagwell is on the juice and you could see his forearms got big same as Mark McGwire
The Hall of Fame needs to establish its own admission committee and admission standards. Baseball writers are no longer needed. They allow too much of their own bias's to impact their votes. DERRR he is a HOFer but not a 1st ballot or 3rd ballot HOFer... The fact that Roger Maris is not in the hall makes my point, The writers suck
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at this point the baseball hall of fame just needs to be renamed the bbwaa opinions hall because its all about opinions now and not people who actually also deserve to be in the hall i mean no offense to some of the legends like bonds and rollins but players like rose bonds sosa and others are just robbing these men just cause the bbwaa cant open their eyes and only care about the bottom line aka how these guys treat them i kinda dont care about that the hall of fame's purpose was to show player who performed well not men who just came in just because they treat the media well
Selig in made it a joke. You let cheats in you have to let Pete Rose in. The fact is nowadays baseball players want more money for not performing at pro level. How many bat close to .200? The game is pathetic due to the players not the game itself