Great idea - and a great topic. Well done in a short 12 minute video. A comprehensive, exhaustive treatise on the subject would take much more time and - thus would remain un-viewed and so - worthless. This is a great primer to get us thinking about an epoxy repair kit for ourselves. Keep it coming.
Nice video as always. I'd add acetone and epoxy-based fairing compound. I also like the mixing/fairing sticks that West offers. Lastly, the West G Flex Thickened epoxy is the best for very small repairs.
Thanks Tim! I enjoy these kind of videos. They're not only educational but kind of give me an idea of where my thinking is compared to other boaters. I'm fairly sure I'll do up a wooden box like you've shown I really like that. My cardboard boxes seem to often get wet. A couple of items that I've got in my" Old Amazon Box" Box are; Plastic one use shot glasses from Amazon A couple of old butter knives The Interlux part A & B Watertite Epoxy Filler, 500ml cans A must for me for years has been "Marine tex" Scissors and a few different Rotary Burrs In place of Solo Cups I've got Clear plastic cups from the Dollar store
Thanks Tim. I love the idea of creating a box (as opposed to the 2 shelves where I store everything). One thing I will add to my box is acetone for clean up. As an aide, I keep small pieces of fiberglass/carbon fibre/Kevlar in plastic sleeves in a binder to keep then organized - in addition to rolls of material.
Hi Tim, great topic. Missing, Gelcoat, of course. What fibreglass repair is complete without applying gelcoat. And, if not gelcoat, then paint if the boat was painted. You said polyester doesn’t stick to epoxy, so since gelcoat is a polyester base product can you cover the issues of using epoxy when needing to gelcoat the final repair? 👍 Lastly, I use a plastic storage box with a lid of approximately the same size as yours to keep weight of the box to a minimum and use 1/8” panel board cut to fit as dividers. Plywood or pressed board makes for a heavy box and the easier it is to handle the more likely I am to grab it and go.
After using too many gallons of various resins, I use a large plastic tub for my kit. A light lighter. But add and change this: A pair of scissors for cutting Kevlar. Much better cut and has not needed sharpening in decades of use Cabosil generic is cheap compared to the West numbered stuff used for thickening. Microballoons as a filler material which adds no weight but bulk. And chopped fibers added for strength and thickening. Tongue depressors are wider and stronger than popsicle sticks and is the right size for forming fillets. Keep your cloth in plastic so it stays clean Peel ply or similar to make perfect laminations. 2” instead of 1” brushes Plastic sheet thicker than Saran Wrap for carrying wetted out cloth to laminate. Pizza cutter for cutting cloth. Acetone. And a bunch of other specialty items like cheap shop lights with infrared bulbs to kick off the resin.
Thanks Tim. Great info and put it in a box to go! Love it. Make a list if all the stuff you want with your kit. I’m going to do the same but I will need to use a box with a lid so I can store it and protect it from humidity on the boat.
Very good video. Acetone, acetone for us messy workers. My kit is a bit less extensive than yours, But I agree, having it all in one place makes life so much easier. I use epoxy always below the WL. Above the WL If I have a repair that will need gel-coat, I use PE as Gel-coat does not bond well to epoxy. Thanks for a great and timely presentation. Dave
Cleaning solvents including white vinegar to get the inevitable resin off tools etc. On a side note, it would be good for you to have reviewed the safety data sheets for the resins and the hardener in the video. Many folks can develop sensitivity to the resins especially uncured ones - commonly from trying to rush a repair and start sanding the hard but not yet fully cured resin. The thickening filler is largely amorphous silica not nearly as bad as crystalline silica but not innocuous, it's still listed as a 1A carcinogen. A good N95 disposable mask supply should be in the kit, even for use outdoors - just watch the dust plume when you scoop out the filler to add to the expoy.
Another great video. Perfect timing now that my boat is on the hard to help repair that little gouge on the stern from that "adventurous" docking incident this season.
The only issue for us cold weather sailors. The slow hardener does not cure in temps nearing 0 degrees. Use the appropiate hardener for your climate. Slow hardener is better for newbies or hot climates. I use the super fast stuff, but it means I have about 5 minutes to apply the epoxy properly. And never mix and then leave the container unattended! You will have extreme heat and fire hazard very quickly.
Polyester/vinyl ester resins have a shelf life of about 6 months, depending on storage. In Australia we have a law called 'truth in advertising', therefor I can safely buy epoxy resin made in Australia at a much better price than West System. I'm not keen on having combustible materials on a boat, if we took everything we might need the boat would sink at the dock.
Grocery stores sell bamboo cups an bowls and spoons for dirt cheap I use those instead of popsickle sticks or the plastic cups , also using a drill to mix your epoxy will heat it up an make it cure faster , there is no need to just stir , mat may be harder to wet out for some people but is a stronger than cloth , great video though , um I have probably used a hundred gallons of west system but really prefer aircraft safety poxy
Just a quick note; gel coat does not bond well to epoxy. If you are fixing a cosmetic blemish on your deck or hull and intend to gel coat it please use vinylester or polyester resin - not epoxy. I have had to grind out and repair several of the previous owner's epoxy 'fixes' in order to get a good gel coat repair. Use epoxy for structural or non cosmetic builds or repairs below decks otherwise use polyester or vinylester resin. Another excellent YT channel for fiberglass repair and boat building is fishbumpTV. I highly recommend everyone check it out.
How do you match gel coat color? I've had one of these for 30 years. I built it up with each project by buying the bulk/pro materials. Great subject, thank you.
Emergency repairs on the boat need to stretch your pint or quart. Bring aluminum window screen and screws and clips. The hole gets covered with screwed down window screen, then the fiberglass goes over it. You might even go inside and put in a few metal or wood straps from the inside. Watch the movie " All is Lost".
Great tip. There's always screen on board for hatches. That movie.... Sailors like to dump on all the really st..... but hey I'll watch it again if there's an epoxy patch trick. I patched a busted up kayak. Was bent completely in half one of the holes was a foot across. Really intimidating. I traced the hole and then made smaller and smaller outlines for the next 6 or 7 layers of glass. The hole was irregular, so how to keep all these patches aligned?? Duh. I stacked them on construction plastic, saturated them all at the same time. Applied epoxy to the tapered are around the hole and just stuck it on. All the layers together get stiff enough to really help. Still needed some fairing, I could've patched a hole like that using fast hardener and it would've been water tight in less than an hour.
Love this kit & topic. Perhaps include a video on a few repair techniques. I keep my West System epoxy repair kit in two 5 gallon pails with matching lids. Building a fiberglass box might be a fun project. There has to be some technique that makes the polyester easier to measure. Fellow commenters? The West pumps are brilliant. There is some discoloration in my West Epoxy that is 5 (?) years old. Does it matter?
Plain old whit vinegar works as good as acetone and is much safer on a boat. All solvents are heavier than air and settle in the bilge. A friend's new 50 foot catamaran, and the boat next to it, burned to the waterline because one worker used epoxy and then another worker did some electrical work. I keep anything like acetone in the dock locker with my outboard gas. I've used vinegar on my skin and soaked chip brushes in it and then used them over and over again.
Total boat is the other epoxy choice but being a Midwest guy i use West System 😜. Vacuum bagging is a whole nother topic. If you want to see a master class in glasswork watch Duracell project. My go to for bigger repairs is 1708 cloth, is heavy biaxial with chop strand backing. I could go on for hours as an industry guy
You should also use a low density filler.... phenolic microballoons is my choice. I also have a sandpaper box. I buy sandpaper by the sleeve as it is cheaper and never goes bad. Get the 3M purple premium stuff. I also have a gel coat box. That is a whole nother topic.
dude, that's not biaxial, that was plain weave cloth! and CSM doesn't work very well with epoxy. it wets out but the binder doesn't disolve. If you learn to use poly (I prefere isopathlic resin) its easier to work. For your poly, get a graduated squeeze bottle to measure out the MEKP Once I got one of those, my trepidation over using poly for repairs went way down! I still use Epoxy for under waterline repairs, but I use Poly for almost everything else! I wish I could ger a gallon of epoxy to last several years! I tend to go through a gallon every year! My current boat is on its 9th gallon of Epoxy and I just bought a 5 gallon pail of poly to redo my foredeck with! The drill bit mixing sticks are brilliant!
I use a Home Depot bucket with a screw top lid. I fill the bucket with about one quarter acetone. I put why scraper, rollers, and other items I need clean. I store them this way. Downside acetone evaporates over time so you to manage the acetone.
You’re leaving a lot out and leading novices to incorrect ideas. First and foremost, polyester and epoxy are co-equals in both building and repair. One is not better than the other except in specific qualities of each product. If you are tabbing or need a structural repair in a small area, yes epoxy is by far the better product because of its tenacious adhesion otherwise, if you are skinning an entire area and your cloth will be 100% bonded everywhere then polyester is absolutely fine and preferable. You’ve also neglected to say that gelcoat does not adhere to epoxy. Many boats are covered in gelcoat and the owner probably doesn’t want to paint. In which case epoxy will ruin the application of gelcoat. You’ve also neglected to bring up amine blush, which is a nasty byproduct of epoxy. Amine absolutely must be removed before an additional coat of epoxy, and once that blush is removed, then the product needs to be sanded before the new epoxy will bond in which case you only have a secondary bond. Unwaxed polyester will stay green for days if not months and the person can leave the project and come back after dinner after a weekend after a week and the product will still be green and you’ll have a primary bond between the layers you are applying. Finally, I’ll say that the binder in fiberglass mat is not dissolved when using epoxy and the wonderful nature of mat and polyester resin making it conform to almost any shape cannot be done with epoxy.
There is a huge difference in strength of polyester and epoxy resins. The formation of side chains being of critical importance. Also it is highly advisable to use release cloth to avoid the amine blush on the surface of the repair/construction. Vinyl ester resin bridges the gap between strength and cost of poly and epoxy.
@ reading comprehension is key, note I said “aside from specific qualities” Perhaps you should address your concerns about release cloth and what not to the poster of the video. He is the one that left that out. Even if release cloth is used, the epoxy still needs to be sanded between coats
I also carry gel coat and lots of different colours. I've found the foam brushes cheaper and better for single use, you can cut them to size. I also carry nail varnish removal pads for when I inevitably spill. Other tips don't work in full sun and mix small quantities. I've had a pot catch fire on me in the past.
Actually that's what I meant to do. I've been doing glass work for 30 years and there's always that argument of what is proper. Thanks for the reading comprehension comment.
Too brief a start to a complex topic needing hrs of actual trial and failure. One recommendation, some filler is definitely unhealthy to inhale, ie colloidal silica, recommend people use a respirator, when mixing any thickener.
Big box store polyester resin will never have a TDS technical data sheet because it is bottom of the barrel end lot polyester resin, always a different product to be sold at lowest cost possible. You do not know what you are getting. If you want quality polyester, resin buy from a reputable boat shop.
!!!! CHOP STRAND MAT IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH EPOXY!!! CSM has a Styrene based binder that will not dissolve in epoxy resin. The CSM will not bend around curves like it should and will not be as strong as when using with poly resin. yes, you can get CSM compatible with epoxy, but it's hard to find (in the USA) and expensive. DO NOT USE CSM WITH EPOXY, unless it is purely cosmetic.
Great idea - and a great topic. Well done in a short 12 minute video. A comprehensive, exhaustive treatise on the subject would take much more time and - thus would remain un-viewed and so - worthless. This is a great primer to get us thinking about an epoxy repair kit for ourselves. Keep it coming.
Nice video as always. I'd add acetone and epoxy-based fairing compound. I also like the mixing/fairing sticks that West offers. Lastly, the West G Flex Thickened epoxy is the best for very small repairs.
Thanks Tim! I enjoy these kind of videos. They're not only educational but kind of give me an idea of where my thinking is compared to other boaters. I'm fairly sure I'll do up a wooden box like you've shown I really like that. My cardboard boxes seem to often get wet.
A couple of items that I've got in my" Old Amazon Box" Box are;
Plastic one use shot glasses from Amazon
A couple of old butter knives
The Interlux part A & B Watertite Epoxy Filler, 500ml cans
A must for me for years has been "Marine tex"
Scissors and a few different Rotary Burrs
In place of Solo Cups I've got Clear plastic cups from the Dollar store
Thanks Tim. I love the idea of creating a box (as opposed to the 2 shelves where I store everything). One thing I will add to my box is acetone for clean up. As an aide, I keep small pieces of fiberglass/carbon fibre/Kevlar in plastic sleeves in a binder to keep then organized - in addition to rolls of material.
Hi Tim, great topic. Missing, Gelcoat, of course. What fibreglass repair is complete without applying gelcoat. And, if not gelcoat, then paint if the boat was painted. You said polyester doesn’t stick to epoxy, so since gelcoat is a polyester base product can you cover the issues of using epoxy when needing to gelcoat the final repair? 👍 Lastly, I use a plastic storage box with a lid of approximately the same size as yours to keep weight of the box to a minimum and use 1/8” panel board cut to fit as dividers. Plywood or pressed board makes for a heavy box and the easier it is to handle the more likely I am to grab it and go.
I clocked this kit some time ago and commented on it then. I'm glad to see you have gone through it with us!
After using too many gallons of various resins, I use a large plastic tub for my kit. A light lighter. But add and change this:
A pair of scissors for cutting Kevlar. Much better cut and has not needed sharpening in decades of use
Cabosil generic is cheap compared to the West numbered stuff used for thickening. Microballoons as a filler material which adds no weight but bulk. And chopped fibers added for strength and thickening.
Tongue depressors are wider and stronger than popsicle sticks and is the right size for forming fillets.
Keep your cloth in plastic so it stays clean
Peel ply or similar to make perfect laminations.
2” instead of 1” brushes
Plastic sheet thicker than Saran Wrap for carrying wetted out cloth to laminate.
Pizza cutter for cutting cloth.
Acetone.
And a bunch of other specialty items like cheap shop lights with infrared bulbs to kick off the resin.
Thanks Tim. Great info and put it in a box to go! Love it. Make a list if all the stuff you want with your kit. I’m going to do the same but I will need to use a box with a lid so I can store it and protect it from humidity on the boat.
Very good video. Acetone, acetone for us messy workers. My kit is a bit less extensive than yours, But I agree, having it all in one place makes life so much easier. I use epoxy always below the WL. Above the WL If I have a repair that will need gel-coat, I use PE as Gel-coat does not bond well to epoxy. Thanks for a great and timely presentation. Dave
Tim, are you going to do a similar video on Gel coat?
Great Information. Thank you
Cleaning solvents including white vinegar to get the inevitable resin off tools etc. On a side note, it would be good for you to have reviewed the safety data sheets for the resins and the hardener in the video. Many folks can develop sensitivity to the resins especially uncured ones - commonly from trying to rush a repair and start sanding the hard but not yet fully cured resin. The thickening filler is largely amorphous silica not nearly as bad as crystalline silica but not innocuous, it's still listed as a 1A carcinogen. A good N95 disposable mask supply should be in the kit, even for use outdoors - just watch the dust plume when you scoop out the filler to add to the expoy.
Another great video. Perfect timing now that my boat is on the hard to help repair that little gouge on the stern from that "adventurous" docking incident this season.
The only issue for us cold weather sailors. The slow hardener does not cure in temps nearing 0 degrees. Use the appropiate hardener for your climate. Slow hardener is better for newbies or hot climates. I use the super fast stuff, but it means I have about 5 minutes to apply the epoxy properly. And never mix and then leave the container unattended! You will have extreme heat and fire hazard very quickly.
Polyester/vinyl ester resins have a shelf life of about 6 months, depending on storage. In Australia we have a law called 'truth in advertising', therefor I can safely buy epoxy resin made in Australia at a much better price than West System. I'm not keen on having combustible materials on a boat, if we took everything we might need the boat would sink at the dock.
Grocery stores sell bamboo cups an bowls and spoons for dirt cheap I use those instead of popsickle sticks or the plastic cups , also using a drill to mix your epoxy will heat it up an make it cure faster , there is no need to just stir , mat may be harder to wet out for some people but is a stronger than cloth , great video though , um I have probably used a hundred gallons of west system but really prefer aircraft safety poxy
Just a quick note; gel coat does not bond well to epoxy. If you are fixing a cosmetic blemish on your deck or hull and intend to gel coat it please use vinylester or polyester resin - not epoxy. I have had to grind out and repair several of the previous owner's epoxy 'fixes' in order to get a good gel coat repair. Use epoxy for structural or non cosmetic builds or repairs below decks otherwise use polyester or vinylester resin. Another excellent YT channel for fiberglass repair and boat building is fishbumpTV. I highly recommend everyone check it out.
How do you match gel coat color? I've had one of these for 30 years. I built it up with each project by buying the bulk/pro materials. Great subject, thank you.
my gosh so useful thanks Tim
Emergency repairs on the boat need to stretch your pint or quart. Bring aluminum window screen and screws and clips. The hole gets covered with screwed down window screen, then the fiberglass goes over it. You might even go inside and put in a few metal or wood straps from the inside. Watch the movie " All is Lost".
Great tip. There's always screen on board for hatches. That movie.... Sailors like to dump on all the really st..... but hey I'll watch it again if there's an epoxy patch trick.
I patched a busted up kayak. Was bent completely in half one of the holes was a foot across. Really intimidating. I traced the hole and then made smaller and smaller outlines for the next 6 or 7 layers of glass. The hole was irregular, so how to keep all these patches aligned?? Duh. I stacked them on construction plastic, saturated them all at the same time. Applied epoxy to the tapered are around the hole and just stuck it on. All the layers together get stiff enough to really help. Still needed some fairing, I could've patched a hole like that using fast hardener and it would've been water tight in less than an hour.
@WillN2Go1 in a safe shop, you do quality work, not window screens or chicken wire.
Love this kit & topic. Perhaps include a video on a few repair techniques.
I keep my West System epoxy repair kit in two 5 gallon pails with matching lids. Building a fiberglass box might be a fun project.
There has to be some technique that makes the polyester easier to measure. Fellow commenters? The West pumps are brilliant.
There is some discoloration in my West Epoxy that is 5 (?) years old. Does it matter?
Thanks!
as i live on board, the thing i have that you dont is a lid (plus it has to be straped down)
Acetone?
Solvent needed for cleanup - I agree - Acetone works well
Plain old whit vinegar works as good as acetone and is much safer on a boat. All solvents are heavier than air and settle in the bilge. A friend's new 50 foot catamaran, and the boat next to it, burned to the waterline because one worker used epoxy and then another worker did some electrical work. I keep anything like acetone in the dock locker with my outboard gas. I've used vinegar on my skin and soaked chip brushes in it and then used them over and over again.
Pretty sure polyester melts a Solo cup. Also, learn to use polyester and gel coat and you get a professional finish.
What is the cleaner?
Total boat is the other epoxy choice but being a Midwest guy i use West System 😜. Vacuum bagging is a whole nother topic. If you want to see a master class in glasswork watch Duracell project.
My go to for bigger repairs is 1708 cloth, is heavy biaxial with chop strand backing. I could go on for hours as an industry guy
I like to have a gallon of white vinegar nearby. It can clean up epoxy before it cures, if it drips in the wrong place.
You should also use a low density filler.... phenolic microballoons is my choice. I also have a sandpaper box. I buy sandpaper by the sleeve as it is cheaper and never goes bad. Get the 3M purple premium stuff. I also have a gel coat box. That is a whole nother topic.
That's a nice box, but too big for the occasional repair when you have a small boat. I guess I prepare a small polyester starter box.
I think it'll take two men and a boy to lift that kit into your truck. Maybe a kit made of two or three subunits?
You forgot the 6 pack of Molson Canadian (or Corona) for when you're finished.
Sandpaper?
...and blocks
dude, that's not biaxial, that was plain weave cloth! and CSM doesn't work very well with epoxy. it wets out but the binder doesn't disolve. If you learn to use poly (I prefere isopathlic resin) its easier to work. For your poly, get a graduated squeeze bottle to measure out the MEKP Once I got one of those, my trepidation over using poly for repairs went way down! I still use Epoxy for under waterline repairs, but I use Poly for almost everything else!
I wish I could ger a gallon of epoxy to last several years! I tend to go through a gallon every year! My current boat is on its 9th gallon of Epoxy and I just bought a 5 gallon pail of poly to redo my foredeck with!
The drill bit mixing sticks are brilliant!
Dollar store sells those graduated squeeze bottles
I use a Home Depot bucket with a screw top lid. I fill the bucket with about one quarter acetone. I put why scraper, rollers, and other items I need clean. I store them this way. Downside acetone evaporates over time so you to manage the acetone.
You can get gloves , scrapers, rollers and paint brushes at Harbor fright ( grown mans toys r us) cheap
You’re leaving a lot out and leading novices to incorrect ideas. First and foremost, polyester and epoxy are co-equals in both building and repair. One is not better than the other except in specific qualities of each product. If you are tabbing or need a structural repair in a small area, yes epoxy is by far the better product because of its tenacious adhesion otherwise, if you are skinning an entire area and your cloth will be 100% bonded everywhere then polyester is absolutely fine and preferable. You’ve also neglected to say that gelcoat does not adhere to epoxy. Many boats are covered in gelcoat and the owner probably doesn’t want to paint. In which case epoxy will ruin the application of gelcoat. You’ve also neglected to bring up amine blush, which is a nasty byproduct of epoxy. Amine absolutely must be removed before an additional coat of epoxy, and once that blush is removed, then the product needs to be sanded before the new epoxy will bond in which case you only have a secondary bond. Unwaxed polyester will stay green for days if not months and the person can leave the project and come back after dinner after a weekend after a week and the product will still be green and you’ll have a primary bond between the layers you are applying. Finally, I’ll say that the binder in fiberglass mat is not dissolved when using epoxy and the wonderful nature of mat and polyester resin making it conform to almost any shape cannot be done with epoxy.
There is a huge difference in strength of polyester and epoxy resins. The formation of side chains being of critical importance. Also it is highly advisable to use release cloth to avoid the amine blush on the surface of the repair/construction. Vinyl ester resin bridges the gap between strength and cost of poly and epoxy.
@ reading comprehension is key, note I said “aside from specific qualities” Perhaps you should address your concerns about release cloth and what not to the poster of the video. He is the one that left that out. Even if release cloth is used, the epoxy still needs to be sanded between coats
I also carry gel coat and lots of different colours. I've found the foam brushes cheaper and better for single use, you can cut them to size. I also carry nail varnish removal pads for when I inevitably spill.
Other tips don't work in full sun and mix small quantities. I've had a pot catch fire on me in the past.
Actually that's what I meant to do. I've been doing glass work for 30 years and there's always that argument of what is proper. Thanks for the reading comprehension comment.
I guess gelcoat is a whole other episode.
Too brief a start to a complex topic needing hrs of actual trial and failure.
One recommendation, some filler is definitely unhealthy to inhale, ie colloidal silica, recommend people use a respirator, when mixing any thickener.
My kit is spread across my garage and truck and comes with a puddle of resin. the worst.
Big box store polyester resin will never have a TDS technical data sheet because it is bottom of the barrel end lot polyester resin, always a different product to be sold at lowest cost possible. You do not know what you are getting. If you want quality polyester, resin buy from a reputable boat shop.
I’m so happy I’m have steel boat 😂 and my welding Mashine 10 in one !
!!!! CHOP STRAND MAT IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH EPOXY!!! CSM has a Styrene based binder that will not dissolve in epoxy resin. The CSM will not bend around curves like it should and will not be as strong as when using with poly resin. yes, you can get CSM compatible with epoxy, but it's hard to find (in the USA) and expensive. DO NOT USE CSM WITH EPOXY, unless it is purely cosmetic.
Respirator?