Could this be the twist behind the series? It would make us look at everything from a different perspective if true! Let me know what you think in the comments down below and Trek On!
I think the synths who attacked Mars were created using Lore's neurons. Dahj and Soji were created using Data's neurons. Lore was probably reactivated and helped Maddox create the synths, then he took control of them.
Sorry dude, but no. Data's essence is in B-4 via the data transfer. That said I do think that Lore isn't so much the mastermind as he is the additional essence that was used following the Maddox/Jurati work. Maddox wanted to use Data's essence only, but there were complications with the data left within B-4, and the sample wasn't fully tenable. Jurati knew that the work could be completed with Lore samples, but Maddox resisted - knowing full well that Lore essence could corrupt the end product. Maddox took off with the research following Starfleet's desire to shut down his work. Jurati is 100% the bad guy. She want to catch up with Maddox to ensure her real motive is achieved - an army of Lore offspring.
Love this theory never even thought of it. I have a few ideas tho on why Soji was called the destroyer. I think that Maddox was only able to create the twins with borg technology. I might be wrong but there may be a Borg Queen influence. I noticed how aggressively she was asking the Romulan woman how they were able to disconnect from the collective. Also the Romulan woman asked which twin was she, the dead one or the Destroyer. This might be a play on Lore and Data. Similar plot line. She may very well have some imprint of the Borg queen ,an essence, just as she has an essence of Data. These are just my thoughts before I listen to others reviews.
Love this theory. Talk about "The Daystrom affect." But you may have failed to see a vital link of lores dealing with the Borg and the possibility of the tie in to Discovery and The destroyer of worlds being the A.I.. from season 2 Discovery ?
I thought it's so strange Data and B4 have screen time, but Lore isn't even mentioned in a series heavily about androids. I also think Lore is purposefully left behind the curtains.
Not just lore, but Lal aswell, datas' actual daughter who they also have the bits in storage, but picard doesnt seem to remember Lal or datas mother, juliana tainer, both examples of human looking androids which picard has seen already, but it would be inconvenient for the story if anyone mentioned them.
That would involve them caring about the continuity of TNG and Star Trek in general. I fear they do not care enough to come up with something like this.
This is a very interesting theory - I think at least that they came to the conclusion that Dahj and Soji were Data's daughters way too quickly: I mean they could have built the entire first season around that piece of the puzzle if that was true but instead it's conveniently given to us from the start? There's definitely something else at work and your theory would make a lot of sense
Yes that’s true they came to the conclusion about Data super quickly, I definately would have expected a bigger buildup in the story which indicates there will be some kind of twist later in the season. Maybe Lore? 😉
Also, if your theory is true, then it proves Lore is hardly different than his father. Just like Dr. Soong created his sons to spite Daystrom Institute, Lore created his daughters to spite his rivals.
it's a great theory but lets be honest, the writers of this show down't know or understand enough about Star Trek history or have the creativity to actually plan such a thing... but it's a cool theory.
Interesting theory. You lost me at the whole “lore being responsible for the dreams.” I think as far as the dreams go, Q is involved. Data had 5 Queens or 5 “Q’s.” Perhaps Q is guiding Picard again as he did in All Good Things. Doesn’t mean there isn’t a Lore angle to the show.
Thanks so much for the shout out, really appreciate it! I'm beginning to wonder if Lore's motives could simply be about getting revenge on Picard. I could imagine Lore getting plenty of sick satisfaction from introducing Picard to Data's daughter, then causing her to die in agony right in front of him!
Of course dr-nerd ;) you know I could see something like that happening where Lore is trying to get back at Picard, there could be a whole series of things he has in store for him to suffer through? Lore getting his ultimate revenge...
that was a big question is what happened to lore - thought he was just stuffed in a locker on the 1701-d - didnt know he was shipped off to the daystrom institute - so yeah some of this does hold water - also i believe soji and narek did pretty much lay out their true intentions to each other - and she was part of a nest to start an uprising - what uprising tho? separated xBs to keep their organic bodies to get positronic brains? or lore mastered the artificial neural network that he was experimenting on gerodi with? and that lore controls the xBs via latent borg implants?
Some recent developments have made one or two of the details you've mentioned obsolete (no spoilers from me), but the theory as a whole could still work. I remember watching a nitpicking video a short while back, where it was pointed out that Data uses a contraction in the dream sequence with Picard, which was marked as a mistake. And then I thought back to Lore's first appearance in TNG. He actually brings up the fact that he uses contractions as "proof" that he is better than Data. So either that's a silly mistake or an amazingly subtle hint. How he manages to manipulate Picard's dreams, though... I don't know, seems a bit out there, but it truly is strange that with all the androids shown and talked about in the show, Lore isn't even mentioned in passing. EDIT: Just read some more of the comments and as SC theorizes, maybe Lore could manipulate Picard's dreams via some formerly deactivated borg implants. He did have a "prophetic" dream at the start of "First Contact", too, so maybe there's still some connection. That, and the last time we saw Lore was in "The descent", where he was hanging around some disconnected borg drones, including Hugh, and we've seen Hugh on the borg cube, and my brain is running wild with speculation right now. 🤔
That’s a great point 👍. I hadn’t picked up on it but if Data did do that then it could be a big clue for sure. Will have to rewatch that dream sequence.
It's odd that Lore hasn't been mentioned on the show up to this point, and it could be a deliberate choice on the part of the writers because they don't want people thinking about Lore too soon. Lore being the template for the synthetics would certainly explain their murderous instability. As for the android twins, my guess is that they really are Data's daughters. They both seem far too stable to have been created from Lore (unless Maddox found a way to fix Lore's instability).
It’s funny how on the game card that Romulan ex Borg lady in episode 3 was playing, there was one white and one black icon, like Ying and Yang? Wonder if the twins are opposites like Lore and Data were?
This has nothing to do with the video: I just wanted to say that I love your new branding logo! (ps, be sure to update the transparent channel icon that appears in the bottom right!)
Yeah, I had a similiar theory. Figured Bruce Maddox pulled a David Marcus; With Data destroyed and B4 being useless, Dr Maddox reactivated Lore and eventually Lore escaped. Probably kiddnapped Maddox and put him to work. Lores ultimate plan to finish what he started in TNG season 7 with the Borg. Maddoxs impatience with his inability to create a positronic brain lead to a deal with the devil that went sour. How about this theory: Picard destroyed the Romulan system with his subconscious 'Id' that has been inhanced by latent 'Q' abilities that Picard has had since 'All good things....'. A directive by the continuum. Kind of like how Dr. Morbius killed the colonist with Krell inhanced mental powers in 'Forbidden Planet' Think about it. Picard is beginning to suffer from that mind syndrome and hes bitter about how his evil twin in 'Nemesis' killed his dear friend Data; Add latent 'Q' abilities Picard has had since he opened his mind in the series finalle, and subconscious resentment to conservative Romulans and BOOM! Bye bye Romulus. I suspect this entire series is a duality Shakespeare tragedy. Shades of 'The tempest' with ego vs Id, man vs machine, Picard vs Lore.
Given the most recent episode, the Lore theory is looking stronger. The way "Soong Jr" seemed to have some contempt for Data being the favored "child" seems to hint towards that.
You could be onto something here, Bruce very well likely would have reactivated Lore to learn from him and knowing how Lore is with manipulation and what we know of Lore and how he wanted to control the borg, much of this makes sense and it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out to be like that as it would've been very hard for Bruce to resist working on Lore at the time. Also, keeping Lores name out of it and clouded in mystery could be a tactical thing to surprise us later on in the story.
@@StarTrekTheory You never know, but I have to admit, I do like the idea of Lore being the mastermind behind all this and with everything he was up to in TNG with wanting to take over the Borg and all that, it could make a lot of sense.
I was thinking of Lal. Was Lal not also dismantled and sent back to Daystrom for analysis after her cascade failure? And who else could've done it but Maddox? That would have added several more years of research, and Dahj/Soji could be Data's daughters if they were built based on Lal.
You're forgetting about the TNG episode Time's Arrow where Data's head was found in a cave in the 24th century, they end up determining that the head is hundreds of years old, so they end up going back into the past and meet Guinan and Mark Twain, Data get's damaged and they end up having to put the old Data head onto Data's body and they end up leaving Data's damaged head in that cave so that his head can be found in that cave in the 24th century and not mess up the timeline. So Starfleet has an extra head of Data's laying around somewhere. I'm not saying your theory is wrong, I'm just mentioning another canon possibility, it would also be a way to bring Data back as well.
That’s a great point 👍. I’ll have to go back and rewatch that - I thought the idea was Data’s head got stuck in a time loop so there was still only one head?
I love this idea. They are obviously not mentioning lore. And Agnes, she is saying “I’m a terrible liar” to create her own narrative. So people don’t think she is a liar. Very interesting
Who's to say Hugh and the captive collective were not preprogrammed to a subroutine to seek lore out at a future date. A fail safe program I would do...lol.
I would love to see Brent Spiner reprise the role of Lore. Maybe he wants Data’s daughter to ultimately recreate data(from the original neuron?), out of some sense of brotherhood or yin to his yang. Idk
I have had the same thoughts since the premiere. Lores status isn't clear after Data deactivates him. I did read somewhere that Data stored his head in a special container that would self destruct upon attempts to open on the Enterprise Ds vault. The container was supposedly damaged and destructed when the saucer section crashed on Veridian 3. I am not sure if this is alpha canon.
That’s super interesting, can you remember was it a novel? As far as I can tell in canon there’s no mention of Lore after that episode where he was deactivated. Also that very same episode had Hugh in it so the producers are suspiciously quiet on Lore when they DEFINATELY had to watch the episode to research for Hugh’s story elements... I wonder if the series is a sequel in many ways to that episode which also had the Borg?
I don't recall any dialogue indicating Lore was sent to the Daystrom Institute. Am I missing something? As far as I knew, he was simply deactivated and his whereabouts were never confirmed.
I considered lore to be a definite possibility. One, I want to see that actor in the series some more. Also, Data was destroyed. So, it is feasible that parts were taken from Lore and B4, to blueprint the Mars Android's. Explains the calamity and hatred towards Synthetics
Thanks! Watching ep3 and Soji on the Borg cube talking to her ‘mother’ I couldn’t help wondering if that was Lore giving her more instructions/uploading code (she appears to reboot/fall asleep). 🤔 Would be a great twist for the series if it’s true!
I think the only way Lore could pull this off is if Maddox fixed what was wrong with him first..... Lore doesn’t plan he just reacts....maybe Maddox figured out why he was so psychotic and fixed it..... not necessarily making him good but giving him the ability to learn from his mistakes and actually forward think .... I like the theory though and I think we haven’t seen the last of Lore
Could be. Weather the father is Data or Lore, I do think the show is hinting at one thing; We'll see Brent Spiner back in some capacity as an organic synth thus bypassing the reason rumored for why he was killed off in Nemesis. He won't have to wear the makeup that he was becoming allergic to.
I really like the idea of Data becoming an organic/synth... and it would be such a great poetic ending to the series 👍 I went over this possibility in my previous video also. One new thought on that is if they do it, they’d have to bring back 2 datas with the way the neuronic cloning works, but that would be even better 😂
Thx! This video was done before the Picard finale where we saw the new Dr Soong - but imo I still think that he is in fact Lore 😉. Things make more sense if he is, especially Maddox leaving in a hurry.
I've asked this from other channels but no answer, since this is "Trek Theory" let me ask here. Did Nero + Spock Prime go back into time and tampered with events to create the Kelvin timeline or did they enter a totally new timeline that parallels to cannon. I think this makes a huge difference on how we view STP moving forward because we dont know if the Kelvin timeline will be used to explain things on Romulas.
Great question 👍 I was actually planning to do a video on this. My theory is based on ‘Parallels’ and would postulate that Discovery, Picard, and Trek 09 are all in parallel universes. Parallalverses. By going back in time they instantly create a new universe. The original universe continues on without Spock or Nero in parallel to this new one. This leads to differences in visuals also, like the Discovery aesthetic being different. Picard could be a different universe to both of those, it’s definately not the original. We know that because of the countdown comic where data is alive and Picard is an ambassador. In the Picard timeline he’s a retired admiral. The trigger that changes the Kelvin timeline however is NOT Nero going back in time, there’s another event that branches it off earlier which no one talks about 😉 But for that you’ll need to watch the video when it comes out 😎. Let me know if that’s what you think also? It makes watching the new series a totally different experience imo...
Tos has gone back into time multiple... it's not tripping on history that makes a difference. Killing George Kirk would def do that. I feel the only proof that Nero entered into a new universe was the total new look of the Klingons. And might I say Klingons genetics must suck, lol. I dont like referencing comics because theres zero collaboration to each other. One theory I would implement to fix some of Kurtzman errors would be TOS mirror/mirror... as one set entered one universe there must be a trade... something from the Kelvin timeline came into cannon. Just like Nero jumping to different points in time may have happened to cannon (creating STD ) I love these talks more than people just hating!!!
@Robertson Thirdly ...that happened in the Kelvin line, would not effect the cannon line... we would not know if it's an absolute different universe in itself.
Maddox was able to attained B4 in a Novel form. There was no mention of him touching Lore. So, this theory doesn't hold water. And the Neuron theory is not sound either.
Just a thought... but if the JJ Trek 24th century stuff including Ambasidor Spock is canon, that means transwarp beaming must be canon. Therefore could we see transwarp beaming in Picard? Perhaps the Star Fleet HQ's transporter gates wernt just taking people around Earth, but perhaps to other nearby Federation worlds! Even if Transwarp is explained away as restricted tech, Picard was close enougth to Spock and they did mind meld, he may well know of it!
That’s a nice idea actually - that people could be beaming to nearby worlds. 😎 Personally I don’t think any of the ambassador Spock stuff is canon in Picard though. In my mind it’s a different timeline but will save that for another vid 😉
I’m thinking either Lore or Control from Discovery. If the writers want to cement Discovery they might want to bridge that connection. Example: the Romulan prophecy stated AI would be destroy all life in the galaxy. We actually saw that in Discovery season 2. What if Control was hiding somewhere in Starfleet databases, biding its time. Waiting till human technology caught up with the knowledge from the Sphere.
Then why would Lore have failed to intervene when the portal was closing? After all, Lore was certainly willing to feed the organics to the Giant Space Crystal. I am not sure i am articulating my question very well as it is past my bedtime!
@Robertson Thirdly Lal appeared to have no such "rights" in "The Offspring" until she died. Admiral Haftel seemed to consider that these rights seemed much less than for Data or rather a human. One can imagine that Lore undergoes the same thing: the fact that it is dangerous and unstable (Soong expressed that it functioned badly), leans on the idea that it will never be reassembled and reactivated. It is obvious that outside of Data, notably thanks to the support of his friends and colleagues, his rights have become identical to humans, however, we saw in one episode, that by taking command of a ship, its crew did not trust him innately: "You are a machine" ..... The "rights" of Data are probably linked to his success, Picard himself admits that in case of failure or failure on mission, where an officer would have to explain himself, Data would be purely and simply dismantled son by son ..... and possibly reprogrammed, it doesn't matter if it harms his life or his aspirations.In one of the novels, after a failure linked to the emotivity chip, Starfleet forces Data to definitively separate from it (whereas the dream of its existence was to become more human and therefore to gain access to emotions, hence the absence in Nemesis ).
Nope..nope and NOPE.... dahj and soji are younger clones of the borg queen # the destroyer that did not get a chance to mature before the collective was destroyed . The sitters being Datas daughters was just a cover story to council there ture identity
The hack "writers" behind this show aren't smart enough to come up with this. The show is actually just Kurtzman gobbledygook... trying to theorize on it is a waste of time.
Could this be the twist behind the series? It would make us look at everything from a different perspective if true! Let me know what you think in the comments down below and Trek On!
I think the synths who attacked Mars were created using Lore's neurons. Dahj and Soji were created using Data's neurons. Lore was probably reactivated and helped Maddox create the synths, then he took control of them.
Could definately be possible, my only question is where did they get Data’s neurons from after Nemesis?
Sorry dude, but no.
Data's essence is in B-4 via the data transfer. That said I do think that Lore isn't so much the mastermind as he is the additional essence that was used following the Maddox/Jurati work.
Maddox wanted to use Data's essence only, but there were complications with the data left within B-4, and the sample wasn't fully tenable. Jurati knew that the work could be completed with Lore samples, but Maddox resisted - knowing full well that Lore essence could corrupt the end product.
Maddox took off with the research following Starfleet's desire to shut down his work.
Jurati is 100% the bad guy. She want to catch up with Maddox to ensure her real motive is achieved - an army of Lore offspring.
Love this theory never even thought of it.
I have a few ideas tho on why Soji was called the destroyer. I think that Maddox was only able to create the twins with borg technology. I might be wrong but there may be a Borg Queen influence.
I noticed how aggressively she was asking the Romulan woman how they were able to disconnect from the collective. Also the Romulan woman asked which twin was she, the dead one or the Destroyer.
This might be a play on Lore and Data. Similar plot line. She may very well have some imprint of the Borg queen ,an essence, just as she has an essence of Data. These are just my thoughts before I listen to others reviews.
Love this theory. Talk about "The Daystrom affect." But you may have failed to see a vital link of lores dealing with the Borg and the possibility of the tie in to Discovery and The destroyer of worlds being the A.I.. from season 2 Discovery ?
I thought it's so strange Data and B4 have screen time, but Lore isn't even mentioned in a series heavily about androids. I also think Lore is purposefully left behind the curtains.
I wondered the same, they almost purposefully don’t mention him.
Not just lore, but Lal aswell, datas' actual daughter who they also have the bits in storage, but picard doesnt seem to remember Lal or datas mother, juliana tainer, both examples of human looking androids which picard has seen already, but it would be inconvenient for the story if anyone mentioned them.
Regardless as to how this all ends, I don't think we've seen the last of Brett Spiner in Star Trek Picard!
Definately agree!
That would involve them caring about the continuity of TNG and Star Trek in general. I fear they do not care enough to come up with something like this.
This is a very interesting theory - I think at least that they came to the conclusion that Dahj and Soji were Data's daughters way too quickly: I mean they could have built the entire first season around that piece of the puzzle if that was true but instead it's conveniently given to us from the start? There's definitely something else at work and your theory would make a lot of sense
Yes that’s true they came to the conclusion about Data super quickly, I definately would have expected a bigger buildup in the story which indicates there will be some kind of twist later in the season. Maybe Lore? 😉
Also, if your theory is true, then it proves Lore is hardly different than his father. Just like Dr. Soong created his sons to spite Daystrom Institute, Lore created his daughters to spite his rivals.
It would be a pretty great parallel 👍
it's a great theory but lets be honest, the writers of this show down't know or understand enough about Star Trek history or have the creativity to actually plan such a thing... but it's a cool theory.
Interesting theory. You lost me at the whole “lore being responsible for the dreams.” I think as far as the dreams go, Q is involved. Data had 5 Queens or 5 “Q’s.” Perhaps Q is guiding Picard again as he did in All Good Things. Doesn’t mean there isn’t a Lore angle to the show.
Thanks so much for the shout out, really appreciate it! I'm beginning to wonder if Lore's motives could simply be about getting revenge on Picard. I could imagine Lore getting plenty of sick satisfaction from introducing Picard to Data's daughter, then causing her to die in agony right in front of him!
Of course dr-nerd ;) you know I could see something like that happening where Lore is trying to get back at Picard, there could be a whole series of things he has in store for him to suffer through? Lore getting his ultimate revenge...
that was a big question is what happened to lore - thought he was just stuffed in a locker on the 1701-d - didnt know he was shipped off to the daystrom institute - so yeah some of this does hold water -
also i believe soji and narek did pretty much lay out their true intentions to each other - and she was part of a nest to start an uprising - what uprising tho? separated xBs to keep their organic bodies to get positronic brains? or lore mastered the artificial neural network that he was experimenting on gerodi with? and that lore controls the xBs via latent borg implants?
I have said that since Day 1 of Picard. We saw B4 not no one has mentioned Lore.
Some recent developments have made one or two of the details you've mentioned obsolete (no spoilers from me), but the theory as a whole could still work. I remember watching a nitpicking video a short while back, where it was pointed out that Data uses a contraction in the dream sequence with Picard, which was marked as a mistake. And then I thought back to Lore's first appearance in TNG. He actually brings up the fact that he uses contractions as "proof" that he is better than Data. So either that's a silly mistake or an amazingly subtle hint.
How he manages to manipulate Picard's dreams, though... I don't know, seems a bit out there, but it truly is strange that with all the androids shown and talked about in the show, Lore isn't even mentioned in passing.
EDIT: Just read some more of the comments and as SC theorizes, maybe Lore could manipulate Picard's dreams via some formerly deactivated borg implants. He did have a "prophetic" dream at the start of "First Contact", too, so maybe there's still some connection. That, and the last time we saw Lore was in "The descent", where he was hanging around some disconnected borg drones, including Hugh, and we've seen Hugh on the borg cube, and my brain is running wild with speculation right now. 🤔
That’s a great point 👍. I hadn’t picked up on it but if Data did do that then it could be a big clue for sure. Will have to rewatch that dream sequence.
I think Lore could have been the basis for the synths, but I'm not sure he's necessarily the mastermind behind everything.
"The reign of biological lifeforms is coming to an end..."
- Lore, 2370 ("Descent, Part II")
It's odd that Lore hasn't been mentioned on the show up to this point, and it could be a deliberate choice on the part of the writers because they don't want people thinking about Lore too soon.
Lore being the template for the synthetics would certainly explain their murderous instability. As for the android twins, my guess is that they really are Data's daughters. They both seem far too stable to have been created from Lore (unless Maddox found a way to fix Lore's instability).
It’s funny how on the game card that Romulan ex Borg lady in episode 3 was playing, there was one white and one black icon, like Ying and Yang? Wonder if the twins are opposites like Lore and Data were?
I also suspect that Data's brother is the real culprit pushing the buttons from behind the curtain.
This has nothing to do with the video: I just wanted to say that I love your new branding logo! (ps, be sure to update the transparent channel icon that appears in the bottom right!)
Thanks Ket! Oh yeah missed that one, good spot haha 😂
Yeah, I had a similiar theory. Figured Bruce Maddox pulled a David Marcus; With Data destroyed and B4 being useless, Dr Maddox reactivated Lore and eventually Lore escaped. Probably kiddnapped Maddox and put him to work. Lores ultimate plan to finish what he started in TNG season 7 with the Borg. Maddoxs impatience with his inability to create a positronic brain lead to a deal with the devil that went sour. How about this theory: Picard destroyed the Romulan system with his subconscious 'Id' that has been inhanced by latent 'Q' abilities that Picard has had since 'All good things....'. A directive by the continuum. Kind of like how Dr. Morbius killed the colonist with Krell inhanced mental powers in 'Forbidden Planet' Think about it. Picard is beginning to suffer from that mind syndrome and hes bitter about how his evil twin in 'Nemesis' killed his dear friend Data; Add latent 'Q' abilities Picard has had since he opened his mind in the series finalle, and subconscious resentment to conservative Romulans and BOOM! Bye bye Romulus. I suspect this entire series is a duality Shakespeare tragedy. Shades of 'The tempest' with ego vs Id, man vs machine, Picard vs Lore.
Interesting theory about the Q powers, that would give new meaning to those 5 Queen (5Qs) cards in his dream at the start...
Yes so much so!
It makes so much sense especially if those attackers were actually Synths at least the ones who "activated" Dahj!
Given the most recent episode, the Lore theory is looking stronger. The way "Soong Jr" seemed to have some contempt for Data being the favored "child" seems to hint towards that.
I totally agree - it’s got to be Lore 😉
@@StarTrekTheory i think the same ;) Lore maybe just changed his appearance to look older. But than the other Androids should know about that too
You could be onto something here, Bruce very well likely would have reactivated Lore to learn from him and knowing how Lore is with manipulation and what we know of Lore and how he wanted to control the borg, much of this makes sense and it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out to be like that as it would've been very hard for Bruce to resist working on Lore at the time.
Also, keeping Lores name out of it and clouded in mystery could be a tactical thing to surprise us later on in the story.
Maddox says ‘Soong and I made Dahj/Soji’... Wonder if Lore is going by the name Soong now after being reactivated?
@@StarTrekTheory You never know, but I have to admit, I do like the idea of Lore being the mastermind behind all this and with everything he was up to in TNG with wanting to take over the Borg and all that, it could make a lot of sense.
I was thinking of Lal. Was Lal not also dismantled and sent back to Daystrom for analysis after her cascade failure? And who else could've done it but Maddox? That would have added several more years of research, and Dahj/Soji could be Data's daughters if they were built based on Lal.
You're forgetting about the TNG episode Time's Arrow where Data's head was found in a cave in the 24th century, they end up determining that the head is hundreds of years old, so they end up going back into the past and meet Guinan and Mark Twain, Data get's damaged and they end up having to put the old Data head onto Data's body and they end up leaving Data's damaged head in that cave so that his head can be found in that cave in the 24th century and not mess up the timeline. So Starfleet has an extra head of Data's laying around somewhere.
I'm not saying your theory is wrong, I'm just mentioning another canon possibility, it would also be a way to bring Data back as well.
That’s a great point 👍. I’ll have to go back and rewatch that - I thought the idea was Data’s head got stuck in a time loop so there was still only one head?
I love this idea. They are obviously not mentioning lore. And Agnes, she is saying “I’m a terrible liar” to create her own narrative. So people don’t think she is a liar. Very interesting
Haha yep that’s true about Agnes 😀
Reasonable theory. We will see 👀
Who's to say Hugh and the captive collective were not preprogrammed to a subroutine to seek lore out at a future date. A fail safe program I would do...lol.
I would love to see Brent Spiner reprise the role of Lore. Maybe he wants Data’s daughter to ultimately recreate data(from the original neuron?), out of some sense of brotherhood or yin to his yang. Idk
Me too! :) I'm sure Brent Spiner would relish playing Lore (without makeup of course) in a twist to the story like this!
I have had the same thoughts since the premiere. Lores status isn't clear after Data deactivates him. I did read somewhere that Data stored his head in a special container that would self destruct upon attempts to open on the Enterprise Ds vault. The container was supposedly damaged and destructed when the saucer section crashed on Veridian 3. I am not sure if this is alpha canon.
That’s super interesting, can you remember was it a novel? As far as I can tell in canon there’s no mention of Lore after that episode where he was deactivated. Also that very same episode had Hugh in it so the producers are suspiciously quiet on Lore when they DEFINATELY had to watch the episode to research for Hugh’s story elements... I wonder if the series is a sequel in many ways to that episode which also had the Borg?
@@StarTrekTheory Ahh it was beta canon. I found the reference on memory beta.
Ah interesting nonetheless, I can totally imagine Data doing something like that! :)
I don't recall any dialogue indicating Lore was sent to the Daystrom Institute. Am I missing something? As far as I knew, he was simply deactivated and his whereabouts were never confirmed.
I considered lore to be a definite possibility. One, I want to see that actor in the series some more. Also, Data was destroyed. So, it is feasible that parts were taken from Lore and B4, to blueprint the Mars Android's. Explains the calamity and hatred towards Synthetics
Would be nice to have Brent Spiner back even if he’s Lore.
👍👍VERY interesting theory! You may be on to something.
Thanks! Watching ep3 and Soji on the Borg cube talking to her ‘mother’ I couldn’t help wondering if that was Lore giving her more instructions/uploading code (she appears to reboot/fall asleep). 🤔 Would be a great twist for the series if it’s true!
I think the only way Lore could pull this off is if Maddox fixed what was wrong with him first..... Lore doesn’t plan he just reacts....maybe Maddox figured out why he was so psychotic and fixed it..... not necessarily making him good but giving him the ability to learn from his mistakes and actually forward think .... I like the theory though and I think we haven’t seen the last of Lore
Could be. Weather the father is Data or Lore, I do think the show is hinting at one thing; We'll see Brent Spiner back in some capacity as an organic synth thus bypassing the reason rumored for why he was killed off in Nemesis. He won't have to wear the makeup that he was becoming allergic to.
I really like the idea of Data becoming an organic/synth... and it would be such a great poetic ending to the series 👍 I went over this possibility in my previous video also. One new thought on that is if they do it, they’d have to bring back 2 datas with the way the neuronic cloning works, but that would be even better 😂
Star Trek Theory true. Perhaps Lore is trying to get an organic synth body and he’ll end up bringing data back as well.
This idea is brilliant! Except for the part about how it relates to Picard's dreams. Oh I hope it is true!
Thx! This video was done before the Picard finale where we saw the new Dr Soong - but imo I still think that he is in fact Lore 😉. Things make more sense if he is, especially Maddox leaving in a hurry.
I've asked this from other channels but no answer, since this is "Trek Theory" let me ask here.
Did Nero + Spock Prime go back into time and tampered with events to create the Kelvin timeline or did they enter a totally new timeline that parallels to cannon. I think this makes a huge difference on how we view STP moving forward because we dont know if the Kelvin timeline will be used to explain things on Romulas.
Great question 👍 I was actually planning to do a video on this. My theory is based on ‘Parallels’ and would postulate that Discovery, Picard, and Trek 09 are all in parallel universes. Parallalverses. By going back in time they instantly create a new universe. The original universe continues on without Spock or Nero in parallel to this new one. This leads to differences in visuals also, like the Discovery aesthetic being different. Picard could be a different universe to both of those, it’s definately not the original. We know that because of the countdown comic where data is alive and Picard is an ambassador. In the Picard timeline he’s a retired admiral. The trigger that changes the Kelvin timeline however is NOT Nero going back in time, there’s another event that branches it off earlier which no one talks about 😉 But for that you’ll need to watch the video when it comes out 😎. Let me know if that’s what you think also? It makes watching the new series a totally different experience imo...
Tos has gone back into time multiple... it's not tripping on history that makes a difference. Killing George Kirk would def do that.
I feel the only proof that Nero entered into a new universe was the total new look of the Klingons. And might I say Klingons genetics must suck, lol.
I dont like referencing comics because theres zero collaboration to each other.
One theory I would implement to fix some of Kurtzman errors would be TOS mirror/mirror... as one set entered one universe there must be a trade... something from the Kelvin timeline came into cannon. Just like Nero jumping to different points in time may have happened to cannon (creating STD )
I love these talks more than people just hating!!!
@Robertson Thirdly ...that happened in the Kelvin line, would not effect the cannon line... we would not know if it's an absolute different universe in itself.
@Robertson Thirdly what is ENT?
Shit, forgot all about Enterprise.ha
Maddox was able to attained B4 in a Novel form. There was no mention of him touching Lore. So, this theory doesn't hold water. And the Neuron theory is not sound either.
Good idea but remember data downloaded his neurel net into B4, which is where he wouldve found the Neurons
Software and data rot happens. It's possible overtime B4's brain corrupted Data's transfer.
She killed Madox, we know that now. Not to mention the uncanny feel we get from the Synthetics. A.I Soong, there are so many obvious clues...
Just a thought... but if the JJ Trek 24th century stuff including Ambasidor Spock is canon, that means transwarp beaming must be canon. Therefore could we see transwarp beaming in Picard? Perhaps the Star Fleet HQ's transporter gates wernt just taking people around Earth, but perhaps to other nearby Federation worlds! Even if Transwarp is explained away as restricted tech, Picard was close enougth to Spock and they did mind meld, he may well know of it!
That’s a nice idea actually - that people could be beaming to nearby worlds. 😎 Personally I don’t think any of the ambassador Spock stuff is canon in Picard though. In my mind it’s a different timeline but will save that for another vid 😉
@@StarTrekTheory It's quite a thought that people could be beaming off world, mind you it would make the shuttle Taxi seem a little pointless!
I’m thinking either Lore or Control from Discovery. If the writers want to cement Discovery they might want to bridge that connection. Example: the Romulan prophecy stated AI would be destroy all life in the galaxy. We actually saw that in Discovery season 2. What if Control was hiding somewhere in Starfleet databases, biding its time. Waiting till human technology caught up with the knowledge from the Sphere.
Then why would Lore have failed to intervene when the portal was closing? After all, Lore was certainly willing to feed the organics to the Giant Space Crystal. I am not sure i am articulating my question very well as it is past my bedtime!
i think lore was found by by noonien soong and data created with lore as a blue print
Exactly what I was thinking
Something isn’t as it seems with Dr. Jurati for sure.
Totally! Imo that Vulcan maybe did a mind meld on her... it was too convenient that she showed up behind the Romulan in ep3.
Could she be an organic synth too specifically Lore's current host?
Data said Lore would be dismantled but I don't remember him saying he would be sent to the Daystrum institute. is that for sure in the episode?
Nope wasnt in the episode.
St Picard was hard to watch for me...presentation matter and they don't have it
at the end of the episode they leave the Borg cube on the planet So if it is Lore he's got the cube
Data Was uploading his mind to b4 in hopes of helping. would he not have some of Data ingrams
This is MY personal theory,too. That would be perfect
I said this after episode one :)
Interesting video! It's a fascinating speculation! :-)
Thanks! Hope it turns out true, would be a nice twist
I definitely got a lot of Lore vibes from Dr Soong Jr
Maybe he is. Specialy when he mentioned, that his Dad said that Data was his only true son. Lore could just changed is appearance to look older.
I guess it turns out that it was a different Soong descendant
Though, maybe he's still Lore under make up
This is one of those if it's true then it should be things!
I wondered the same thing. thanks
What about Data's Mother? ua-cam.com/video/HEdNUqjgXmo/v-deo.html
Why no theory on her. Is she still alive?
Love your videos, but the music on this video is too loud, it drowns out the audio. Love the basic idea around this hypothesis though!
Thanks that’s good feedback, will lower music volume in future vids! 👍
I agree - music too loud and very distracting, overall.
Bro im with you!!!! I said that shit after the first episode. Im posting this before im watching it because i wana be surprised how similar it is!
Fucking nailed it. We are on the same page man. This is great!
Haha thanks! 😃
Why would they seek Picard for safety?
Sunglasses
Haha everyone knows a spy needs old earth era sunglasses 😎 That really pulled me out of the episode!
Why didn’t they mentioned his daughter La?
Make it so!
No I think data is alive and well and is an organic synth. I think his dream of being a real human has come true
Covered that in a previous theory video also, that would be a cool twist to end the series on...
Wasn't he vaporized?
lore was destroyed on enterprise-D destruction
it has never been said or seen, except in a novel .... and the novels are not canon
@Robertson Thirdly Lal appeared to have no such "rights" in "The Offspring" until she died. Admiral Haftel seemed to consider that these rights seemed much less than for Data or rather a human. One can imagine that Lore undergoes the same thing: the fact that it is dangerous and unstable (Soong expressed that it functioned badly), leans on the idea that it will never be reassembled and reactivated. It is obvious that outside of Data, notably thanks to the support of his friends and colleagues, his rights have become identical to humans, however, we saw in one episode, that by taking command of a ship, its crew did not trust him innately: "You are a machine" ..... The "rights" of Data are probably linked to his success, Picard himself admits that in case of failure or failure on mission, where an officer would have to explain himself, Data would be purely and simply dismantled son by son ..... and possibly reprogrammed, it doesn't matter if it harms his life or his aspirations.In one of the novels, after a failure linked to the emotivity chip, Starfleet forces Data to definitively separate from it (whereas the dream of its existence was to become more human and therefore to gain access to emotions, hence the absence in Nemesis
).
Nope..nope and NOPE.... dahj and soji are younger clones of the borg queen # the destroyer that did not get a chance to mature before the collective was destroyed . The sitters being Datas daughters was just a cover story to council there ture identity
Androids go berserk....just like Lore! My thoughts exactly.
lore = maddox
Well they did killed off the character in a way...he us powerful as far as st villains go...
Love it.
The hack "writers" behind this show aren't smart enough to come up with this. The show is actually just Kurtzman gobbledygook... trying to theorize on it is a waste of time.
Hopefully with him preoccupied with his Clariss show maybe someone did something right instead of following his instructions?
No it’s not Lore
have you ever been right in your theorys? stop doing this kind of videos....boring , unlogical and worst then j.j. abrams movies