R9 3950X + mobile 2070 in a 230W budget... is actually pretty freaking impressive! If XMG adds support for Ryzen 4000 ( R9 4950X) in their motherboards, this thing could be even more monstrous. Quite the "Just because" laptop :)
Do you think the reason they don't include a RTX 2080 graphics choice is to make power room for something like the 3950X? it makes sense to me to have the option of sacrificing graphics performance to put in a more powerful CPU if that's the case
@@zipzeolocke2 i wonder if it's relay worth putting a RTX 2080 in, with that kind of CPU it hits me more as a production laptop than a gaming laptop. never mind that nvidia's next GPU's are out so soon, maybe next gen with the new GPU depending on cost/power use it may happen. but relay for production workloads the gains from a RTX 2080 in most tasks are not going to be big, most GPU production apps are more dependent on VRAM than pure GPU power.
@@liaminwales I'm just saying I like having all the options available. I personally would gladly sacrifice graphics performance for a more powerful CPU. In most games you might only get an extra 10 FPS between a RTX 2070 and a RTX 2080. That's not a big enough performance difference for it to be worth it to me. But at the same time it would be nice for those who want to choose the 3700X and a RTX 2080 graphics card. Customization options are nice to have. I wish all OEMs gaze all the options like that. I noticed Cyberpower does a decent job with configure options. But not enough of them
Indeed it is remarkable what Zen 2 can achieve due to its efficiency and architecture. Not unrealistic for professionals to use it, they may greatly benefit from it.
This is not exactly beneficial for portable usage at all. It's too niche as this particular laptop drains too much power to even run for a few mins without dying. Using a desktop level processor on a laptop has never been and never will be optimal regardless of the CPU's efficiency. The idle and overall power consumption when not pushing the chip to max load is simply too high. For instance, Ryzen 3600 drains 25 to 35w doing absolutely nothing. A laptop chip would never do this as they are finetuned by the manufacturer specifically. Zen 2 is in an odd position when it comes to power efficiency. It is so damn good under max load... Knocking Intel out of the water... But when you're doing basic stuffs or doing moderate level tasks, the power consumption is still pretty high as if it's fully loaded at times. At this point, might as well not include a battery at all. Just make the power brick a compulsory.
We ordered a 3900x version for this. perfect for intense compiling, running VMs and lighter AI stuff + graphical processing. Ideal for people who actually want a desktop, but need to bring it to the meeting room once in a while.
I think it would be a better idea to just get a decent desktop pc. And then maybe buying a budget laptop for those meeting rooms. Based on my own experience, 'high-end' laptops aren't worth it.
I really like the internal layout and upgrade possibities! the aesthetics could be a bit more refined but there is a certain charm to the very no-frills industrial look too. interesting laptop this!
Getting the barebones of this from Eluktronics next month and slotting in my 3700x since I'm moving abroad. Absolutely perfect use case for me. Can't wait.
Thanks for the info.. very exciting stuff! You guys should do a updated (best low/mid/high gaming laptop comparison of 2020/21) if you get a chance Love the videos keep em up!
2:46-Is V-Sync off?? You should probably consider when you're saying 84°C is hot in a damn (15") Laptop (without even considering the specs of this). I personally haven't seen any laptop with respectable specs running cooler than 80-85°C under load (unless you UV & use liquid metal), so this is a very good showing from XMG Most other laptops easily hit 99/100°C or at least 90, so the fact that this is doing better with an insanely more powerful CPU is commendable. My 6 yr old laptop (i7-4712HQ+GTX850m) hits 100 & 85-90°C on the CPU & GPU while gaming.
I am so happy that XMG gets coverage on channels like Digital Foundry. There laptops are criminally underrated in my opinion. I bought an XMG Core 15 and this is me best laptop I have been using; previously been using Dell, Acer, non of them hold a candle in terms of cooling and performance.
Cool review! :) Some quick notes here: #1 CPU Speed vs. Desktop Too bad you had no 3700X and 3600 to test :) Native 65W CPUs will run just as fast as in desktop systems, like the 3600 and 3700X. My Apex 15 with a 3700X for example lifts 4700-4800 multi score points in CineBench R20, equal to desktop systems with compareable cooling (of course liquid cooled desktop systems will be a bit faster because of temperature-performance scaling). Temperatures will also be better with the 3600 and 3700X #2 M.2 Slot The second free M.2 slot is only capable of PCI Gen2, so max 1.5GByte/s. The already used one has PCI Gen3, so up to 4GByte/s. #3 Some more power savings, lower temperatures I know you wanted to test your review unit in the default configuration, without CPU tuning. But doing so can save you quite a bit of power draw and lower temperatures. In my eyes this is super worthwhile in a laptop. Using Manual OC in Ryzen Master (or using ZenStates) you can set your cores to a fixed frequency and "undervolt" them, or let's say: limit the voltage to a reasonable value. In return you lowering the power draw by 5-10W for gaming and 10-20W in heavy load scenarios like rendering & video encoding. The performance will stay roughly the same, but the temperatures will be more chilled. You can check out my latest video about that. I talked about CPU OC/UV for the XMG Apex 15 in more detail. Cheers
Just to note that the 4900HS system uses the old 2060 while the new system uses the refreshed 2060. It's Nvidia's fault for not renaming their new products. Laptop shopping right now is terrible because of this.
@@vncube1 Max Q is a low powered vesrion of the nvidia gpu. And no it's an old version of 2060. The new 2060 with the 115W tdp and higher memroy speed is much faster
You also should balme the OEM for not putting a ryzen 9 with something more powerful like a 2070 super or a 2080 super Although nvidia is really trying hard to beat monitor manifacturers with their namings
8gb of vram 320w power supply, desktop cpu. up to 64gb of ram (3200mhz ram are often pricier) this is super upgradable. some older laptops you were able to replace cpu/apu if fitted the socket. now they are mostly soldered in. altho not the first to support desktop cpu (Eluktronics did it as well) the price on this is mind blowing. the chassis looks clevo material. but cant complain too much on the rest. i feel these laptops can last a good 10 years.
This is a terrible laptop. Why is there a market for gaming laptops since they don't even function as portable machines. They last like 30 mins off charge and weigh a ton. Build a desktop because when you buy this your effectively buying a neutered desktop anyway.
@@SwaggaMuffin Because you are witnessing "bad" laptop that does perform well and last longer and a decent weigh. We also need to realize the extra price premium has to do with the fact laptops comes with a keyboard and HD or 4k displays on top of it. In other words of course Desktops will be cheaper than a laptop, but for those who want the portability while travelling/on the go, they can. We just wish innovation on that area will drop the prices EVEN more.
@@abdullahalharbi6217 no but bad for your battery lifetime. The GPU will draw at least 8W all time, more likely 15-20W while watching videos. And that's just the GPU.
@@danman1287 multiple comments prove that's wrong. Some peeps at least asked for chilling in bed or programming on the go with it. I would not advice to use it without the AC adaptor though
The most impressive thing isn't the performance. It's what Rich, said: Somebody said, let's make a portable "desktop" with desktop power and components and they did. No questions asked. This is why I love technology. Don't get me wrong, certain areas need to be approached with caution e.g. AI, but things like this that are purely hardware based is just fun to exist & experience.
You know your own laptop's cooling is shit when it reaches the same temperatures as this monster does but at 1/3 of the power. Yay for budget gaming laptops. It's funny when Rich mentions how temps are in the 80s in a full power video encoding workload when for me that's just your average gaming session if I dare to let the CPU boost above 3 GHz.
Great video Richard minus 1 small thing, 3600mhz cl16 memory scores exactly the same as 3200mhz cl14, HardwareUnboxed and even Anthony over at LinusTechTips made videos showing this off. Now 3200mhz cl16 is like 1-2 fps in some games lower but will save you at least 100 bucks...Hoping we see even bigger infinity fabric changes in Zen3!
Nice video, thanks for all the work. I would have enjoyed it even more, if you would have included testing the 3900 in your Desktop-machine (and possibly showed us the temps) =)
I have a pimped out 3950X PC and the highest clocking Zephyrus G14 I've seen with a 2TB SSD upgrade (4800HS 35w hits 4.4 and 16 threads @4.3ghz. It's RTX 2060 Max-Q GPU hits 1995Mhz (2Ghz) boosts and settles in between 1543-1741Mhz while gaming). They both simply demolish Everything. Aka, they're both PHUCKING AMAZING CPUs and I Highly Recommend them.
You can supposedly undervolt the CPU with "ZenStates" which could help. Also it being a standard B450 chipset means that you may theoretically be able to use "Ryzen Master". Just be wary about a behavior known as "clock stretching" if you undervolt too far where, despite an undervolt passing all of the stability tests you throw at it, actual performance at a given clockrate ends up being lower than if you had not undervolted as much.
This is an insane mobile workstation! Other Intel gaming laptops at 2,500 EU may have better gaming performance, but the XMG absolutely obliterates it in workstation scenarios.
Digital Foundry : I already had the pleasure of testin the 2017 laptop with the Ryzen 7 1700X inside it....and to be honest I absolutely loved it. But this realistic and usable idea of having a 16c/32T Ryzen 9 3950X inside a laptop combined with 3200 MH/T Crucial SODIMM memory is absolutely mind boggling :) !!!! This laptop is a uber performing Ryzen 9 MONSTER :).
The people who made these laptops originally only offered up to a 3900x it’s crazy they were able to get it up to 3950x. And I bet this is going to give amd some ideas with their mobile lineup. Imagine actual 16 core or even 24/32 core threadripper chips in laptops. Sure they are loud and hot, but that’s a lot of on the go performance for someone. Spend a few grand and let yourself be able to do things on the go? Yeah I think so.
This is the kind of content that makes me subscribe. No BS about the chassis “flex” or the “keyboard travel feel” and the thickness of screen bezels. It’s a workstation replacement, chances are it’ll be hooked up to a monitor or two with a full size keyboard/mouse. Nicely done DF.
Disagree about the 3200 ram.... I’ve got 3200CL16 on my 3900x and when I put it to 3600CL18 I see naff all difference. The big kicker for that laptop ins the 3200 is CL22.... now that’s some serious latency!
I have this laptop with other specs: 3600 and RTX2070. I can play in GTA on silent mode it comes in 4K on maximum details with 30 frames or PES 2020 in 60FPS. At the same time laptop is quiet than PS4 Pro or Xbox One x.
"Quaint" mini display port? I'd actually say this is a pretty important port considering that everything but the newest g-sync or freesync monitors will require a display port connection. There's also the consideration of a portion of buyers wanting to buy a laptop like this for backpack VR where every high end option (Index, Pimax, Oculus) will require a display port.
He almost certainly meant "quaint" as in the mini form-factor of DisplayPort has largely been replaced by DisplayPort over USB type-C (which the laptop already supports), so it seemed a bit odd to not just use full-sized DisplayPort.
Your typical 15" laptop from the Core 2 Duo era was around this big with user-replacable components (CPU, RAM, HDD, battery), and the models with discrete graphics had similar battery life of around an hour or so as well.
@@nintendomaniac64 If you say so, I know nothing of that era, except that it existed. Well sort of I suppose lol Anyways, it makes it even more clear it's SFF desktop. There are batteries for standard desktop PC's, but that doesn't make them considered a mobile PC as far as I am aware off, since many seem uninterested of getting 1.
The increase in size is worth the extra performance along with the option to easily change components. I've only ever purchased two laptops in my lifetime and it's mostly because they are gutless machines that don't last.
The only option lacking is a RTX 2080. Because I don't believe any laptop has a RTX 2080 TI yet. But maybe that's how they were able to do this with the 3950X, they gave up some graphics power to feed a more powerful CPU
little brother needs a laptop for work and he isn't in once place much so he essentially wants a desktop replacement. his options however all look gamer and un profesional. I think he would like this alot just for aesthetics.
The only thing that i worry most is locked bios, i remember when asus launch GL702ZC with ryzen 1700, they cripple the product by not updating the bios although it can support ryzen+ cpu
I have this same computer, just the only one you can get in the US is Sager. Mind you Sager hasn't done the work that other companies like XMG have done with bios settings, there is a promise of a more open and tweak friendly bios coming to those who want it. Even now though, with some tweaking for most of what I do, mine with the R9 3900 it stays behaved with decent temps and okay noise. Overall really glad I bought one over the Asus Tuf a15.
They do that with basically everything other than Lenovos, Dells, and Microsoft systems. They if you are Australian they have to help you as their laws state they must.
Yep, for my i5-8300H that's just your average gaming session... assuming I limit it to 3 GHz. Leave it at the default 3.9 and enjoy your instant 95ºC thermal limit and throttling. And that's with a pretty significant undervolt, too. But to be fair my laptop's cooling is garbage too.
@Setzer K Yeah, and replaced the factory thermal paste on both CPU and GPU as well, all in all reduced temps by 10-15ºC so imagine how bad it was out of the box. But a 1050 Ti laptop for 700€ was quite a steal when I got it, so I can't really complain. Most of the time I just have Turbo disabled on the CPU since a lot of games don't really need it for 60 fps and it keeps temps in the 70s which isn't too terrible. Though funnily enough the laptop has a 144 Hz screen but good luck with that on any halfway demanding game...
This would be a great laptop for high-end VFX professionals, if it was 17", supported up to 128GB RAM, with 4K screen (ideally micro led), and a more premium build (metal chassis). Then it would be an instant buy for me.
Wish they would make a removable GPU like the cpu. Burner my mobo and now I'm looking at 1000$ replacement cost! Yikes! Also... would be nice if pci express 5.0 was added
*3.2GHz all-core for sustained load?* My calculations estimate that's what Richard hit for Cinebench R20. Impressive for 16-cores. Maybe he said that as I didn't watch the end of the video... anyway, the R9-3950x should hit the same or higher performance in everything, even applications that don't use more than 12 cores because the R9-3950x uses binned CCD's as well which reduces the power draw.
edit: I meant the R9-3950x should match or exceed the R9-3900x. I wasn't clear. By "match" I mean workloads that may be bottlenecked by the GPU or only use a core or two. By exceed I mean more than a few cores where the power efficiency due to binning starts to give the R9-3950x an advantage. It's hard to guess the difference in even light workloads since there's a small benefit in favor of temperature which is also reduced so it's not just power but power draw would factor in greatly for heavier workloads
Thats stunning. Regarding the BIOS: Is it "open"? Can you tweak settings like you could on a desktop pc? If yes, I could replace my clunky desktop with this machine? Also: How is processor support? Can it also run 1XXX and 2XXX Ryzens?
The BIOS is not "open" yet. It's something that we planned to work on, but it's not easy to unlock options without risking users to brick their system. Meanwhile, you can already use Ryzen Master to add more flexibility. We haven't tried running 1XXX and 2XXX CPUs and we haven't seen any reports of people running them either. We are still launching a lot of other products right now (Comet Lake and Renoi) and our R&D and testing resources are a bit stretched right now. // Tom
No matter the battery size, the power the desktop CPU draws will kill it in practically an instant anyways. Not including a battery at all would've also been fine. Zen 2 desktop chips alone drain somewhere between 25w to 35w doing absolutely nothing besides the few background Windows tasks. That is more than max load of some laptops. Also, going too far might exceed the max allowed battery in a plane. Don't think they wanna release a local only laptop lol.
I have a 3950X and question Rivatuner's reliability. It always says every core is the same temperature -- even if only one CCD is being used. I also don't trust its reporting of clock speeds. Rivatuner regularly tells me I'm running an all core boost to 4.2GHz. I tried this once manually. It was stable, but temps were in the 90s. There is no way it's doing this when gaming.
You can in fact configure the Apex 15 to be paired with a Ryzen 3600. However, you can also configure it with a Ryzen 3700X which would likely provide better single-threaded performance as it has higher clocks at the same TDP due to better binning and the like.
@@cicciograziani6697 The 3700X is 12% faster than the 4900H. Ok-ish compareable. But the Apex 15 is faster :> Not to mention the 12 and 16 core variants
I find the included RAM a very odd choice for such a powerful machine. I can understand 3200mhz ram, but CL20? I know sodimms can't be as performant as full sized DIMMS, but CL20 is budget bottom of the barrel ram. Definitely hampers performance.
It's because memory manufacturers do not focus on SO-DIMM. There are 3600 and 4000MHz SO-DIMMs available, but there is only one brand and only 4x8GB kits available. That sucks. I think that could change later this year because there will be more and more laptops with faster memory coming out. The other problem is that most laptops are not allowed to alter the DRAM voltage. So we are stuck to 1.2V at slower timings. For tighter timings we need 1.35V... Unfortunately the Apex 15 is not unlocked in this regard, too.. at least not yet. They plan to publish an unlocked BIOS later. But there are still some negotiations running with the ODM about possible risks doing so. You know, there are always unreasonable people overclocking till hardware's dead. Cheers
Dear, Rich. I'm begging you to update your games selection for performance testing. I mean, the games you've been using some that are well over 3 years old. The Witcher 3? Crysis 3? Ashes of singularity? Really? Who plays those games nowadays? They run on older base hw. Back when those games came out, we had i7 4770k/6700k as the best gaming CPUs we could have for gaming, things have changed a lot since then. We no longer have 4 cores as bleeding edge tech, we now are in the era of 8-16 core count, so CPU usage has shifted, so why do you still ground yourself onto such outdated games for your analysis? You seriously should reconsider your decision for games used in your testings. It's really annoying to see the same games over and over again.
I don't think we can call this a Laptop. It's more like a portable desktop. As you need it plugged in for that power draw to get the most performance from it.
The typical 15" laptop from the Core 2 Duo era were around this big with user-replacable components (CPU, RAM, HDD, battery), and the models with discrete graphics had similar battery life of around an hour or so as well.
@@nintendomaniac64 Yeah, gaming laptops with discrete graphics were basically tied to a power cord. Otherwise, they are very under performed. You would need something like a Portable Generation with at least 330Wh power capacity to be off grid, but still tethered to a station unit. Even with that, you get about another 2 hours of high performance usage only.
9:04 I love how Crysis 3 is *literally* the first thing Richard installs on any PC.
new CPU and GPU's will be dropping soon, if anyone gets a 4k dollar laptop now they're insane.
Crysis 3 is pretty much broken for me after 2004 update...
Robert Sharp I wonder how you can break the third game if the first one was not even released... XD
@@ROBSILVERGUN They mean the Windows 10 Update 2004. A confusing version number, admittedly, but it's a couple of weeks old.
@@KillahMate i just wanted to write that :D
R9 3950X + mobile 2070 in a 230W budget... is actually pretty freaking impressive!
If XMG adds support for Ryzen 4000 ( R9 4950X) in their motherboards, this thing could be even more monstrous. Quite the "Just because" laptop :)
Do you think the reason they don't include a RTX 2080 graphics choice is to make power room for something like the 3950X? it makes sense to me to have the option of sacrificing graphics performance to put in a more powerful CPU if that's the case
@@zipzeolocke2 Yeah that's probably true. The laptop would choke on more powerful GPUs.
@@zipzeolocke2 i wonder if it's relay worth putting a RTX 2080 in, with that kind of CPU it hits me more as a production laptop than a gaming laptop.
never mind that nvidia's next GPU's are out so soon, maybe next gen with the new GPU depending on cost/power use it may happen.
but relay for production workloads the gains from a RTX 2080 in most tasks are not going to be big, most GPU production apps are more dependent on VRAM than pure GPU power.
@@liaminwales I'm just saying I like having all the options available. I personally would gladly sacrifice graphics performance for a more powerful CPU. In most games you might only get an extra 10 FPS between a RTX 2070 and a RTX 2080. That's not a big enough performance difference for it to be worth it to me. But at the same time it would be nice for those who want to choose the 3700X and a RTX 2080 graphics card. Customization options are nice to have. I wish all OEMs gaze all the options like that. I noticed Cyberpower does a decent job with configure options. But not enough of them
the gpu might be a bit underpowered then
Intel's "real world" performance benchmark would be this laptop Vs a xeon based supercomputer.
This still win
vs Fugaku. "Real world performance". LOL does Cinebench run on Supercomputers???
@@billykotsos4642 That was a reference to the recent misleading "real world performance" slides from Intel.
@@billykotsos4642 derp
And don't forget that they will put a better GPU on theirs and pretend that it makes no difference.
Indeed it is remarkable what Zen 2 can achieve due to its efficiency and architecture. Not unrealistic for professionals to use it, they may greatly benefit from it.
@@Android-ng1wn And as far as ridiculous goes, this looks very subtle indeed, almost completely inconspicuous.
@@Android-ng1wn Just bought a 4800H for that reason 🤷♂️
This is not exactly beneficial for portable usage at all. It's too niche as this particular laptop drains too much power to even run for a few mins without dying.
Using a desktop level processor on a laptop has never been and never will be optimal regardless of the CPU's efficiency. The idle and overall power consumption when not pushing the chip to max load is simply too high.
For instance, Ryzen 3600 drains 25 to 35w doing absolutely nothing. A laptop chip would never do this as they are finetuned by the manufacturer specifically.
Zen 2 is in an odd position when it comes to power efficiency. It is so damn good under max load... Knocking Intel out of the water... But when you're doing basic stuffs or doing moderate level tasks, the power consumption is still pretty high as if it's fully loaded at times.
At this point, might as well not include a battery at all. Just make the power brick a compulsory.
@@cunnyman yeah, just integrate the PSU into the laptop in place of the battery
@@prezidenttrump5171 Heh. I didn't even think about it, the subconscious and all that.
We ordered a 3900x version for this. perfect for intense compiling, running VMs and lighter AI stuff + graphical processing. Ideal for people who actually want a desktop, but need to bring it to the meeting room once in a while.
Why not wait for zen3?
@@cristianspiridon you can upgrade easily when Zen 3 launch
I think it would be a better idea to just get a decent desktop pc. And then maybe buying a budget laptop for those meeting rooms. Based on my own experience, 'high-end' laptops aren't worth it.
Jealous of you who can try it out :D
@@oER1Ko
This IS a desktop Small Form Factor PC in a laptop form.
I really like the internal layout and upgrade possibities! the aesthetics could be a bit more refined but there is a certain charm to the very no-frills industrial look too. interesting laptop this!
Damn? Nobody mention that for the price this is an amazing deal??
The version he has is like $4500... base model is $1300... not that amazing of a deal I dont think
Getting the barebones of this from Eluktronics next month and slotting in my 3700x since I'm moving abroad. Absolutely perfect use case for me. Can't wait.
Thanks for the info.. very exciting stuff!
You guys should do a updated (best low/mid/high gaming laptop comparison of 2020/21) if you get a chance
Love the videos keep em up!
2:46-Is V-Sync off??
You should probably consider when you're saying 84°C is hot in a damn (15") Laptop (without even considering the specs of this).
I personally haven't seen any laptop with respectable specs running cooler than 80-85°C under load (unless you UV & use liquid metal), so this is a very good showing from XMG
Most other laptops easily hit 99/100°C or at least 90, so the fact that this is doing better with an insanely more powerful CPU is commendable.
My 6 yr old laptop (i7-4712HQ+GTX850m) hits 100 & 85-90°C on the CPU & GPU while gaming.
You need to repaste
I regularly have anything from 60 to 75 on my gaming laptop. Gs66.
I am so happy that XMG gets coverage on channels like Digital Foundry. There laptops are criminally underrated in my opinion. I bought an XMG Core 15 and this is me best laptop I have been using; previously been using Dell, Acer, non of them hold a candle in terms of cooling and performance.
I heard the fans sound like a commercial airplane preparing for takeoff
Been great seeing DF doing PC videos lately, felt like it was just console comparison videos for a long time.
@@arkitek1983 wtf
Cool review! :) Some quick notes here:
#1 CPU Speed vs. Desktop
Too bad you had no 3700X and 3600 to test :) Native 65W CPUs will run just as fast as in desktop systems, like the 3600 and 3700X. My Apex 15 with a 3700X for example lifts 4700-4800 multi score points in CineBench R20, equal to desktop systems with compareable cooling (of course liquid cooled desktop systems will be a bit faster because of temperature-performance scaling). Temperatures will also be better with the 3600 and 3700X
#2 M.2 Slot
The second free M.2 slot is only capable of PCI Gen2, so max 1.5GByte/s. The already used one has PCI Gen3, so up to 4GByte/s.
#3 Some more power savings, lower temperatures
I know you wanted to test your review unit in the default configuration, without CPU tuning. But doing so can save you quite a bit of power draw and lower temperatures. In my eyes this is super worthwhile in a laptop. Using Manual OC in Ryzen Master (or using ZenStates) you can set your cores to a fixed frequency and "undervolt" them, or let's say: limit the voltage to a reasonable value. In return you lowering the power draw by 5-10W for gaming and 10-20W in heavy load scenarios like rendering & video encoding. The performance will stay roughly the same, but the temperatures will be more chilled.
You can check out my latest video about that. I talked about CPU OC/UV for the XMG Apex 15 in more detail.
Cheers
Can confirm. This user's review video series on XMG APEX 15 goes into a lot of tuning detail indeed. Recommended watch! // Tom
Just to note that the 4900HS system uses the old 2060 while the new system uses the refreshed 2060. It's Nvidia's fault for not renaming their new products. Laptop shopping right now is terrible because of this.
Just look at all the specs G-18-e is the 115w refresh iirc
Is that true? The Max-Q isn't a refreshed 2060 SKU?
@@vncube1 Max Q is a low powered vesrion of the nvidia gpu. And no it's an old version of 2060. The new 2060 with the 115W tdp and higher memroy speed is much faster
You also should balme the OEM for not putting a ryzen 9 with something more powerful like a 2070 super or a 2080 super
Although nvidia is really trying hard to beat monitor manifacturers with their namings
@@dotalegendery3998 What I'm asking is if the Max-Q is the 65W version of the new GPU or old GPU.
When's the Digital Foundry merchandise web store opening? I need a DF hoodie!
Nah nobody wants that to happen we'll get pretenders I'd rather get a custom DF hardware/tech/gadget
Yes, ready to buy some merch!
Great to see more AMD chips appearing in laptop products.
Well I know what my next laptop is.
Be prepared to get carbonaut pads to keep it cool and the noise when the fans ramp up!
Nullarc Bricks Not this, since I don't even want to know the price ...
8gb of vram 320w power supply, desktop cpu. up to 64gb of ram (3200mhz ram are often pricier) this is super upgradable. some older laptops you were able to replace cpu/apu if fitted the socket. now they are mostly soldered in. altho not the first to support desktop cpu (Eluktronics did it as well) the price on this is mind blowing. the chassis looks clevo material. but cant complain too much on the rest. i feel these laptops can last a good 10 years.
This is a terrible laptop. Why is there a market for gaming laptops since they don't even function as portable machines. They last like 30 mins off charge and weigh a ton. Build a desktop because when you buy this your effectively buying a neutered desktop anyway.
@@SwaggaMuffin Because you are witnessing "bad" laptop that does perform well and last longer and a decent weigh. We also need to realize the extra price premium has to do with the fact laptops comes with a keyboard and HD or 4k displays on top of it. In other words of course Desktops will be cheaper than a laptop, but for those who want the portability while travelling/on the go, they can. We just wish innovation on that area will drop the prices EVEN more.
So glad I can finally buy it this week
Also worth mentioning, or better not forgetting, the desktop Ryzen CPUs do not have an iGPU, meaning the 2070 is active at all times.
Is this bad for gpu?
@@abdullahalharbi6217 no but bad for your battery lifetime. The GPU will draw at least 8W all time, more likely 15-20W while watching videos. And that's just the GPU.
@@TechModLab no one is using this laptop off a battery
@@danman1287 multiple comments prove that's wrong. Some peeps at least asked for chilling in bed or programming on the go with it.
I would not advice to use it without the AC adaptor though
First time Rich is pushing DF merch? 🤩💯
The most impressive thing isn't the performance. It's what Rich, said: Somebody said, let's make a portable "desktop" with desktop power and components and they did. No questions asked. This is why I love technology. Don't get me wrong, certain areas need to be approached with caution e.g. AI, but things like this that are purely hardware based is just fun to exist & experience.
You know your own laptop's cooling is shit when it reaches the same temperatures as this monster does but at 1/3 of the power. Yay for budget gaming laptops. It's funny when Rich mentions how temps are in the 80s in a full power video encoding workload when for me that's just your average gaming session if I dare to let the CPU boost above 3 GHz.
It was me crying in Acer V15 Nitro...until I switched to XMG Core 15 which I am currently using. :D
Great video Richard minus 1 small thing, 3600mhz cl16 memory scores exactly the same as 3200mhz cl14, HardwareUnboxed and even Anthony over at LinusTechTips made videos showing this off. Now 3200mhz cl16 is like 1-2 fps in some games lower but will save you at least 100 bucks...Hoping we see even bigger infinity fabric changes in Zen3!
Do keep in mind though that these are DDR4-3200 CL22 (not a typo).
15'6!" my friend. I truly wished it was 15'4" like you stated, with a beautiful 16:10 ratio..
Richard, that's a nice looking tshirt you have there. Where's the Digital Foundary merch store? I'd definitely pick one of those up!
Socketed processor in a laptop, what kind of madness is this!!!, i'm in looooove!!!
Nearly all laptops had socketed processors up until the early 2010s (albeit with smaller CPUs and sockets than their desktop counterparts).
This is a monster ! very nice review.
I wish I could afford this beauty
The rtx 2070 + Ryzen 5 3600 version is only $1449. I know it's a lot but it's possible to buy now and upgrade that CPU at a later date.
Specced one of these with everything I'd want and it came to $2900. Not bad for what you're getting.
Nice video, thanks for all the work.
I would have enjoyed it even more, if you would have included testing the 3900 in your Desktop-machine (and possibly showed us the temps) =)
I have a pimped out 3950X PC and the highest clocking Zephyrus G14 I've seen with a 2TB SSD upgrade (4800HS 35w hits 4.4 and 16 threads @4.3ghz. It's RTX 2060 Max-Q GPU hits 1995Mhz (2Ghz) boosts and settles in between 1543-1741Mhz while gaming). They both simply demolish Everything. Aka, they're both PHUCKING AMAZING CPUs and I Highly Recommend them.
This is good content for laptops enthusiasts. Please DF make a video like the "Future-Proofing Your PC For Next-Gen Gaming" for laptops.
This laptop freaking insane.
The fans are incredibly loud, I have one with a 3600, great value! very stable, I'm waiting for ryzen 4000!
You can supposedly undervolt the CPU with "ZenStates" which could help. Also it being a standard B450 chipset means that you may theoretically be able to use "Ryzen Master".
Just be wary about a behavior known as "clock stretching" if you undervolt too far where, despite an undervolt passing all of the stability tests you throw at it, actual performance at a given clockrate ends up being lower than if you had not undervolted as much.
How is your fan noise during typical low-load office/web/media situations? Are you switching to Quiet mode for this? // Tom
@@nintendomaniac64 ZenStates and Ryzen Master work indeed. // Tom
My man Rich looking sharp!
This a true enthusiast laptop.
This is an insane mobile workstation! Other Intel gaming laptops at 2,500 EU may have better gaming performance, but the XMG absolutely obliterates it in workstation scenarios.
@Markoi Green I have never used my dell mobile workstation on battery
I was thinking dell charges alot for their mobile workstation w the quadro rtx gpu... Way more than this computer
Just what the doctor prescribed. A portable machine that can handle a little of everything specially Virtual Machine set up.
Was expecting this to be like $2000+ . Under $1500... wtf?
Digital Foundry : I already had the pleasure of testin the 2017 laptop with the Ryzen 7 1700X inside it....and to be honest I absolutely loved it. But this realistic and usable idea of having a 16c/32T Ryzen 9 3950X inside a laptop combined with 3200 MH/T Crucial SODIMM memory is absolutely mind boggling :) !!!! This laptop is a uber performing Ryzen 9 MONSTER :).
Okay, so if they announce a 17" version I might consider an upgrade from my GL702ZC
Was always disappointed this baby never got an upgrade to handle the 3700X in its AM4 socket.
Sub 90c full load temps with no throttling out of the box is actually kind of exceptional for a laptop these days.
The people who made these laptops originally only offered up to a 3900x it’s crazy they were able to get it up to 3950x. And I bet this is going to give amd some ideas with their mobile lineup. Imagine actual 16 core or even 24/32 core threadripper chips in laptops. Sure they are loud and hot, but that’s a lot of on the go performance for someone. Spend a few grand and let yourself be able to do things on the go? Yeah I think so.
Actually, the original spec was only up to 3900 without X. Yep, we took it up to 11. // Tom
Wow, this is the best laptop I've ever seen 🙏🏼😍
This is the kind of content that makes me subscribe. No BS about the chassis “flex” or the “keyboard travel feel” and the thickness of screen bezels. It’s a workstation replacement, chances are it’ll be hooked up to a monitor or two with a full size keyboard/mouse. Nicely done DF.
Yeah I know right? I also hate these shills like Austin pointing out specs that nobody cares about.
Really enjoyed the video and yes i made it to the end! 👍🔥
So basically I'm just gonna blindly go and get this finally digital foundry giving laptop advice like we asked so much
Disagree about the 3200 ram.... I’ve got 3200CL16 on my 3900x and when I put it to 3600CL18 I see naff all difference. The big kicker for that laptop ins the 3200 is CL22.... now that’s some serious latency!
THIS IS FREAKING NUTS!! AND I LOVE IT!!! My new 3950X PC workstation will be sitting in the corner moping
I have this laptop with other specs: 3600 and RTX2070. I can play in GTA on silent mode it comes in 4K on maximum details with 30 frames or PES 2020 in 60FPS. At the same time laptop is quiet than PS4 Pro or Xbox One x.
The laptop would be great if it had a thunderbolt 3 port and YES there are machines running AMD setups with thunderbolt 3 ports.
I can’t wait for the versions that don’t have a CPU installed, that way I can put a 3700X in it with a decent mobile GPU.
"Quaint" mini display port? I'd actually say this is a pretty important port considering that everything but the newest g-sync or freesync monitors will require a display port connection. There's also the consideration of a portion of buyers wanting to buy a laptop like this for backpack VR where every high end option (Index, Pimax, Oculus) will require a display port.
He almost certainly meant "quaint" as in the mini form-factor of DisplayPort has largely been replaced by DisplayPort over USB type-C (which the laptop already supports), so it seemed a bit odd to not just use full-sized DisplayPort.
That's NOT a laptop.
It's a Small Farm Factor laptop-ish desktop PC.
Your typical 15" laptop from the Core 2 Duo era was around this big with user-replacable components (CPU, RAM, HDD, battery), and the models with discrete graphics had similar battery life of around an hour or so as well.
@@nintendomaniac64
If you say so, I know nothing of that era, except that it existed.
Well sort of I suppose lol
Anyways, it makes it even more clear it's SFF desktop.
There are batteries for standard desktop PC's, but that doesn't make them considered a mobile
PC as far as I am aware off, since many seem uninterested of getting 1.
The increase in size is worth the extra performance along with the option to easily change components. I've only ever purchased two laptops in my lifetime and it's mostly because they are gutless machines that don't last.
"Time to hit the like button" Yessir Mr. Leadbetter I'll do whatever you say Mr. Leadbetter.
This thing is badass!
The only option lacking is a RTX 2080. Because I don't believe any laptop has a RTX 2080 TI yet. But maybe that's how they were able to do this with the 3950X, they gave up some graphics power to feed a more powerful CPU
Interesting video. Hope you're planning on updating your benchmark suite soon!
As soon as these last gen GPU's get swapped out this will be my next Laptop with a 3300X.
23:41 Still Cooler than any Mac book, hahaha
little brother needs a laptop for work and he isn't in once place much so he essentially wants a desktop replacement.
his options however all look gamer and un profesional.
I think he would like this alot just for aesthetics.
I wish XMG distributed in the US too. Desktop Ryzen 9 blows Asia’s G14 out of the water.
you can get origin in the US with 3950X
The only thing that i worry most is locked bios, i remember when asus launch GL702ZC with ryzen 1700, they cripple the product by not updating the bios although it can support ryzen+ cpu
I have this same computer, just the only one you can get in the US is Sager. Mind you Sager hasn't done the work that other companies like XMG have done with bios settings, there is a promise of a more open and tweak friendly bios coming to those who want it. Even now though, with some tweaking for most of what I do, mine with the R9 3900 it stays behaved with decent temps and okay noise. Overall really glad I bought one over the Asus Tuf a15.
They do that with basically everything other than Lenovos, Dells, and Microsoft systems. They if you are Australian they have to help you as their laws state they must.
Wait... Where is my DF shirt?
Dang i bought my 2060 and 9300h laptop in January... if i had known i could have gotten this one :(
"It reaches 80°C"
Intel: "Wait, that's supposed to be a high temperature for a laptop?"
Yep, for my i5-8300H that's just your average gaming session... assuming I limit it to 3 GHz. Leave it at the default 3.9 and enjoy your instant 95ºC thermal limit and throttling. And that's with a pretty significant undervolt, too. But to be fair my laptop's cooling is garbage too.
@Setzer K Yeah, and replaced the factory thermal paste on both CPU and GPU as well, all in all reduced temps by 10-15ºC so imagine how bad it was out of the box. But a 1050 Ti laptop for 700€ was quite a steal when I got it, so I can't really complain. Most of the time I just have Turbo disabled on the CPU since a lot of games don't really need it for 60 fps and it keeps temps in the 70s which isn't too terrible. Though funnily enough the laptop has a 144 Hz screen but good luck with that on any halfway demanding game...
Damn that's serious
I like the clean design
Wooh I am early!
Intel needs to get their act together...
This would be a great laptop for high-end VFX professionals, if it was 17", supported up to 128GB RAM, with 4K screen (ideally micro led), and a more premium build (metal chassis). Then it would be an instant buy for me.
What laptops have micro led?
@@JustOneGuy the latest MSI creator and the upcoming Clevo x170 will have one down the line.
now that's a laptop I'd own, if I needed to
4:38 Oh God, that voice crack though hahaha
Wish they would make a removable GPU like the cpu. Burner my mobo and now I'm looking at 1000$ replacement cost! Yikes! Also... would be nice if pci express 5.0 was added
XMG/Clevo is the only option for me to move from desktop to laptop period.
but you cant upgrade all parts like on a desktop pc
I just wanna know where I can get that shirt!
*3.2GHz all-core for sustained load?*
My calculations estimate that's what Richard hit for Cinebench R20. Impressive for 16-cores. Maybe he said that as I didn't watch the end of the video... anyway, the R9-3950x should hit the same or higher performance in everything, even applications that don't use more than 12 cores because the R9-3950x uses binned CCD's as well which reduces the power draw.
edit: I meant the R9-3950x should match or exceed the R9-3900x. I wasn't clear. By "match" I mean workloads that may be bottlenecked by the GPU or only use a core or two. By exceed I mean more than a few cores where the power efficiency due to binning starts to give the R9-3950x an advantage. It's hard to guess the difference in even light workloads since there's a small benefit in favor of temperature which is also reduced so it's not just power but power draw would factor in greatly for heavier workloads
But wait! The i3 runs microsoft office just as quickly for 4x less price!! Real world performance is more important guys!
No one will buy this only to run microsoft office .. your point ?
He's Referencing Intel
It’s a joke obviously. Thanks for the good laugh mate!
found the userbenchmark review
The i3 is overkill . Pentium ftw
Thats stunning. Regarding the BIOS: Is it "open"? Can you tweak settings like you could on a desktop pc?
If yes, I could replace my clunky desktop with this machine?
Also: How is processor support? Can it also run 1XXX and 2XXX Ryzens?
The BIOS is not "open" yet. It's something that we planned to work on, but it's not easy to unlock options without risking users to brick their system. Meanwhile, you can already use Ryzen Master to add more flexibility. We haven't tried running 1XXX and 2XXX CPUs and we haven't seen any reports of people running them either. We are still launching a lot of other products right now (Comet Lake and Renoi) and our R&D and testing resources are a bit stretched right now. // Tom
@Rich, how come every time I watch a DF video I gotta turn up the volume of my speakers?
nice works,
They can teach Apple a thing or two about cooling a chip
They should have removed the HDD cage and added a bigger battery
Double the battery to get 45 minutes more battery life
No matter the battery size, the power the desktop CPU draws will kill it in practically an instant anyways.
Not including a battery at all would've also been fine.
Zen 2 desktop chips alone drain somewhere between 25w to 35w doing absolutely nothing besides the few background Windows tasks. That is more than max load of some laptops.
Also, going too far might exceed the max allowed battery in a plane. Don't think they wanna release a local only laptop lol.
Aren't battery limited by air travel? No portable device battery can exceed 100 Wh. If a device exceed it, then it will not be allowed on an aircraft.
I have a 3950X and question Rivatuner's reliability. It always says every core is the same temperature -- even if only one CCD is being used. I also don't trust its reporting of clock speeds. Rivatuner regularly tells me I'm running an all core boost to 4.2GHz. I tried this once manually. It was stable, but temps were in the 90s. There is no way it's doing this when gaming.
It's basically a workstation with an integrated UPS.
What is the maximum thickness of 2.5" drive that can fit in the drive bay? With it being so thic could it fit 15mm drives?
I love mine although I only have 1/2 the juice
👍👀
Assassins Creed Odyssey would love to eat up all 32 threads
so-dimm has some weird compativility issues with desktop chp. some folks tried to run faster memory like 3600 mhz without much success
They should be able to lower the timings and that's even better.
haircut and new tshirt? he's a young rapper now.
One of this laptops with an r5 3600 at 4GHz should be crazy deal.
no need ryzen 4th mobile are very similar to the desktop version, of course if cooled properly and that looks like an aspect where oems are saving.
You can in fact configure the Apex 15 to be paired with a Ryzen 3600.
However, you can also configure it with a Ryzen 3700X which would likely provide better single-threaded performance as it has higher clocks at the same TDP due to better binning and the like.
@@cicciograziani6697 The 3700X is 12% faster than the 4900H. Ok-ish compareable. But the Apex 15 is faster :> Not to mention the 12 and 16 core variants
B550 should be used for motherboard so that we can literally use upgradability when 4th gen Zen comes out.
unfortunately they came out too late
Looks a like my laptop (which has a Desktop i5 inside).
That Control Center UI tho...
There are more options behind that simple 4 profile selection screen, including some fan offset control and a limited manual fan curve editor. // Tom
Hello, could you please test this amazing notebook with Corona Renderer 1.3 benchmark? =) Thank you so much!
Timestamps would be nice.
Yeah. I wouldn't be comfortable using that for long periods...
I find the included RAM a very odd choice for such a powerful machine. I can understand 3200mhz ram, but CL20? I know sodimms can't be as performant as full sized DIMMS, but CL20 is budget bottom of the barrel ram. Definitely hampers performance.
It's because memory manufacturers do not focus on SO-DIMM. There are 3600 and 4000MHz SO-DIMMs available, but there is only one brand and only 4x8GB kits available. That sucks. I think that could change later this year because there will be more and more laptops with faster memory coming out.
The other problem is that most laptops are not allowed to alter the DRAM voltage. So we are stuck to 1.2V at slower timings. For tighter timings we need 1.35V... Unfortunately the Apex 15 is not unlocked in this regard, too.. at least not yet. They plan to publish an unlocked BIOS later. But there are still some negotiations running with the ODM about possible risks doing so. You know, there are always unreasonable people overclocking till hardware's dead.
Cheers
Dear, Rich. I'm begging you to update your games selection for performance testing. I mean, the games you've been using some that are well over 3 years old. The Witcher 3? Crysis 3? Ashes of singularity? Really? Who plays those games nowadays? They run on older base hw. Back when those games came out, we had i7 4770k/6700k as the best gaming CPUs we could have for gaming, things have changed a lot since then. We no longer have 4 cores as bleeding edge tech, we now are in the era of 8-16 core count, so CPU usage has shifted, so why do you still ground yourself onto such outdated games for your analysis? You seriously should reconsider your decision for games used in your testings. It's really annoying to see the same games over and over again.
AotS and Crysis 3 still bring big rigs to their knees with maxed out settings. That’s why we use them.
I don't think we can call this a Laptop. It's more like a portable desktop. As you need it plugged in for that power draw to get the most performance from it.
The typical 15" laptop from the Core 2 Duo era were around this big with user-replacable components (CPU, RAM, HDD, battery), and the models with discrete graphics had similar battery life of around an hour or so as well.
@@nintendomaniac64 Yeah, gaming laptops with discrete graphics were basically tied to a power cord. Otherwise, they are very under performed. You would need something like a Portable Generation with at least 330Wh power capacity to be off grid, but still tethered to a station unit. Even with that, you get about another 2 hours of high performance usage only.