Thanks for the video. I experience the same problem with digital audio quality and IMHO it is digital sound clipping / oversteer. When someone has a low or normal mic modulation, he/she sounds good, but when using max/loud modulation the sound becomes distorted a lot, to the point it is unbearable for my ears. I am using FTM-100DE as well. I wonder if the demodulation/DAC/amplification can be aligned somehow in the radio... Anyone? 73 de SP9JAL
it is a bit artificial but you won't notice it after a few minutes. I rarely use analogue anymore, digital is so much cleaner and if you are mobile there's no more intermod. If you have a wires-x node ore a repeater equiped with wires-x then your talking around the world regardless of the band conditions.
This demo was a local contact using our club repeater, I use the local repeater or simplex 80% of the time. You are correct in that if the internet connection goes down then you can not use the Wires-X functionality. That said our internet service is more reliable then the hf band condition these days HiHi. 73 Denis
Nice video. To my ears the analogue contacts sounded much clearer than the digital ones. Neither of the 5W contacts where perfect, but I'd prefer the FM hiss to the lossy codec artefacts. More power improves the FM but of course has no effect on the digital contact.
I do think the FM sounds nicer than digital modes as well. I'd like to have seen Full-Rate Digital mode (VW) used in this comparison as well. I think it significantly reduces a lot of that artifact noise.
FM is aesthetically much more comfortable even followed by some noise, but, digi mode is more intense and efficient when the goal is just communication, it's, send a message and be understood.
Used digital for a little bit. Prefer FM any day. If you need to get a more efficient mode that's what SSB is for. With some good older radios for VHF / UHF SSB has some real good audio. Really no need for digital here. Fun to learn, program and play but I hardly use...
The comments favor fm over digital in spite of the quieting effect. I haven't seen anyone mention the following, and wonder if it just me. When the digital transmission begins, my brain seems to have to "sync up" with it before I can begin to understand the voice. Sort of like if you hear someone speaking fast with a foreign accent - you have to get your brain working along with them before you get 100% copy. Does that make sense? Now, here is the really big impact this has - all the public service agencies are going digital. If I was involved, as a police officer for example, and heard a quick transmission from a partner who was in trouble and he only made a short emergency transmission, I would be much, much less able to "decipher" the transmission if it was digital than if it was analog fm. I tried dmr once, but the robot voice (I call it the clothespin on nose effect) was so disturbing to me that I ditched the rig, a TYT380. Oh happy day to see that ht going to a new owner.
Certainly. The main problem that I have with the digital modes is that it puts too much emphasis on the highs and not enough on the lows, which severely distorts the communication. And, for someone such as myself with a much lower voice, people have a very difficult time copying me if I'm communicating digital. The main thing for me is that, for analog FM, at least, I know exactly what the radio's doing, and I can very easily explain what's going on to a newcomer, and I always know how to change the characteristics of the output and transmission. But with digital, you have no idea what's going on over the air, and it's difficult to resolve issues, such as overmodulation or undermodulation. Not to mention, almost everyone has analog FM capabilities, and there's only one analog FM (wide and narrow will clip and distort a little, but they're pretty well interchangeable), but with digital, there's several different, completely independent digital modes that are not interchangeable at all. Even with completely different analog modes, for example, if there's a strong AM signal coming in and I set the radio to FM, it sounds awful and there's tons of distortion, but you can make out the speech to a certain degree.
I can not stand the sound of C4FM. It in no way sounds like a person. It is clear with no noise, but It sounds like I'm listening to a text to speech app of some kind. I can not for the life of me understand why some people like it better. The mode is really cool and it might have some advantages, but it is an error to believe that is sounds anywhere close to as good as a quality FM analogue signal. Also WiresX ?? If I want to use VOIP I'll use discord or hell make a phone call. Edit: I do have and use a FT5DR and I am not a fan of that radio either, shortest battery life of any radio I have ever owned even with all of the neat features turned off i.e. APRS/GPS
Nice video, but I would disagree about C4FM being easier to listen to. I think everybody on C4FM sounds like they're talking through a kazoo. I prefer static to that. I'm here searching for settings I've possibly missed that would eliminate that but maybe they don't exist.
Thanks for the demo. I have to disagree with your conclusion. I find no pleasure in listening to any of the digital voice modes currently used in ham radio. Sometimes it is even difficult to understand what is being said. I will stick to analog FM and SSB for now. For whatever reason, bandwidth reduction seems to be the prime objective, at the cost of audio fidelity. Other than eliminating background hiss (which we are used to as hams), I see no compelling reason to switch to digital voice. If I am missing something, please let me know. 73.
this new digi equipment is still in the making test period and audio is only to get better in time.. and i agree they still need to get everyones audio a little less robotic the more pure the better.. but even more so with thease modes first the same audio level as they can be very unforgiving mabe some type of a auto digimode ALC limit overdrive protection idea on each rig for balance but something yes? as its the main cause of its problems on overly high set mic settings or shouting loud ...but in fairness its 100% still at its best of what it can or its audio codec chip can provide to now even down to a 25 % signal then the crazy blackhole sound kiks in. its called the cliff drop effect not the slope effect as hams are used to. in laymans terms its all or nothing in audio till 25%1/4 signal if your a 5/9 or over you still will be at 100% in the radios eyes till down to a S 2.5 or even S2 if very lucky and thats the deal or trade off with this and all digi gear.
I gave up all my DMR stuff because of the really lousy modulation, so after this video i´m going to save my money for another C4FM radio.... FM is still state of the art. 73 de DB2AJ
Outstanding video and demonstration. I'd give it a 10/10 if you ended this with a simplex demonstration analog vs digital. I'd think he might be able to hit you simplex if the repeater is even further away. Keep up the fine work sir. Matt / KF4ULD
You didn’t specify if you’re using digital narrow or wide which makes a big difference. Anyway, thanks for the demo. The compression or “codec” that is used needs to be better tuned to sound more natural. I agree with many Hams as it sounds a bit too robotic. lol 😂
guys please dont say c4fm sounds like top quality audio because it dosent,most of the time its bloody terrible,what i dont get is some times different radios sound and seem to produce c4fm differently.
Now try to do a video analog vs fusion mobile and you will notice you will lost your signal in some spot when you lose your signal on digital you can hear it on analog , when you start driving the analog have better ears than the digital
Everyone currently on FM will hold thier ground on FM, but digital is the way of the future in amateur radio where UHF and VHF are concerned. Good news is that we all have a choice and System Fusion let's everyone choose for themselves. Thanks for the video.
I just ordered this exact mobile radio from Yeasu. In order for digital to work does the repeater have anything to do with it? Do all repeaters take in digital? I’m new to the HAM world and I can’t wait to get this Mobil radio installed in my truck👍😎
Hi, your radio will only work in the digital mode on a Yaesu Fusion repeaters or in simplex mode. It will work in analogue mode on all other repeaters. 73
Hi! After watching the video, I tested with a friend 90 km away throw an analogue repeater without success. Just now, as I read on this comment, only Yaesu repeaters allow these types of dual communication. Congratulations for your videos.
Wow, digital sounds too robotic and unnatural which makes very difficult to understand speech.
Nice demonstration, and great production quality.
Thanks for the video. I experience the same problem with digital audio quality and IMHO it is digital sound clipping / oversteer. When someone has a low or normal mic modulation, he/she sounds good, but when using max/loud modulation the sound becomes distorted a lot, to the point it is unbearable for my ears. I am using FTM-100DE as well. I wonder if the demodulation/DAC/amplification can be aligned somehow in the radio... Anyone? 73 de SP9JAL
The C4FM voice sounds like that of a robot. Thanks for helping me make up my mind, I'll stick to analogue FM mode.
it is a bit artificial but you won't notice it after a few minutes. I rarely use analogue anymore, digital is so much cleaner and if you are mobile there's no more intermod. If you have a wires-x node ore a repeater equiped with wires-x then your talking around the world regardless of the band conditions.
You can do that until the internet goes down. Then you are local only.
This demo was a local contact using our club repeater, I use the local repeater or simplex 80% of the time. You are correct in that if the internet connection goes down then you can not use the Wires-X functionality.
That said our internet service is more reliable then the hf band condition these days HiHi. 73 Denis
It sounds robot like because they are transmitting in digital narrow mode. It sounds perfect when running in digital wide VW.
Hmm p25 always sounds better to me
Thanks for the demonstration, I agree with previous writers that FM sounds much better.
Nice video.
To my ears the analogue contacts sounded much clearer than the digital ones.
Neither of the 5W contacts where perfect, but I'd prefer the FM hiss to the lossy codec artefacts.
More power improves the FM but of course has no effect on the digital contact.
I do think the FM sounds nicer than digital modes as well. I'd like to have seen Full-Rate Digital mode (VW) used in this comparison as well. I think it significantly reduces a lot of that artifact noise.
@@LancasterWannaBe Yes would have liked to hear VW mode as well.
FM is aesthetically much more comfortable even followed by some noise, but, digi mode is more intense and efficient when the goal is just communication, it's, send a message and be understood.
Used digital for a little bit. Prefer FM any day. If you need to get a more efficient mode that's what SSB is for. With some good older radios for VHF / UHF SSB has some real good audio. Really no need for digital here. Fun to learn, program and play but I hardly use...
My police scanner is digital and I really have trouble understanding the conversation. Same here but not as bad.
Sounds like you had Stephen Hawking in the room!
The comments favor fm over digital in spite of the quieting effect.
I haven't seen anyone mention the following, and wonder if it just me. When the digital transmission begins, my brain seems to have to "sync up" with it before I can begin to understand the voice. Sort of like if you hear someone speaking fast with a foreign accent - you have to get your brain working along with them before you get 100% copy. Does that make sense?
Now, here is the really big impact this has - all the public service agencies are going digital. If I was involved, as a police officer for example, and heard a quick transmission from a partner who was in trouble and he only made a short emergency transmission, I would be much, much less able to "decipher" the transmission if it was digital than if it was analog fm.
I tried dmr once, but the robot voice (I call it the clothespin on nose effect) was so disturbing to me that I ditched the rig, a TYT380. Oh happy day to see that ht going to a new owner.
Certainly. The main problem that I have with the digital modes is that it puts too much emphasis on the highs and not enough on the lows, which severely distorts the communication. And, for someone such as myself with a much lower voice, people have a very difficult time copying me if I'm communicating digital. The main thing for me is that, for analog FM, at least, I know exactly what the radio's doing, and I can very easily explain what's going on to a newcomer, and I always know how to change the characteristics of the output and transmission. But with digital, you have no idea what's going on over the air, and it's difficult to resolve issues, such as overmodulation or undermodulation.
Not to mention, almost everyone has analog FM capabilities, and there's only one analog FM (wide and narrow will clip and distort a little, but they're pretty well interchangeable), but with digital, there's several different, completely independent digital modes that are not interchangeable at all. Even with completely different analog modes, for example, if there's a strong AM signal coming in and I set the radio to FM, it sounds awful and there's tons of distortion, but you can make out the speech to a certain degree.
I can not stand the sound of C4FM. It in no way sounds like a person. It is clear with no noise, but It sounds like I'm listening to a text to speech app of some kind. I can not for the life of me understand why some people like it better. The mode is really cool and it might have some advantages, but it is an error to believe that is sounds anywhere close to as good as a quality FM analogue signal. Also WiresX ?? If I want to use VOIP I'll use discord or hell make a phone call.
Edit: I do have and use a FT5DR and I am not a fan of that radio either, shortest battery life of any radio I have ever owned even with all of the neat features turned off i.e. APRS/GPS
Nice video, but I would disagree about C4FM being easier to listen to.
I think everybody on C4FM sounds like they're talking through a kazoo. I prefer static to that.
I'm here searching for settings I've possibly missed that would eliminate that but maybe they don't exist.
Thanks for the demo. I have to disagree with your conclusion. I find no pleasure in listening to any of the digital voice modes currently used in ham radio. Sometimes it is even difficult to understand what is being said. I will stick to analog FM and SSB for now. For whatever reason, bandwidth reduction seems to be the prime objective, at the cost of audio fidelity. Other than eliminating background hiss (which we are used to as hams), I see no compelling reason to switch to digital voice. If I am missing something, please let me know. 73.
this new digi equipment is still in the making test period and audio is only to get better in time.. and i agree they still need to get everyones audio a little less robotic the more pure the better.. but even more so with thease modes first the same audio level as they can be very unforgiving mabe some type of a auto digimode ALC limit overdrive protection idea on each rig for balance but something yes? as its the main cause of its problems on overly high set mic settings or shouting loud ...but in fairness its 100% still at its best of what it can or its audio codec chip can provide to now even down to a 25 % signal then the crazy blackhole sound kiks in. its called the cliff drop effect not the slope effect as hams are used to. in laymans terms its all or nothing in audio till 25%1/4 signal if your a 5/9 or over you still will be at 100% in the radios eyes till down to a S 2.5 or even S2 if very lucky and thats the deal or trade off with this and all digi gear.
Nice comparison of the modes. To me C4FM sounds like a droid from Star Wars. I am thinking I like FM better. K4TEN
I gave up all my DMR stuff because of the really lousy modulation, so after this video i´m going to save my money for another C4FM radio.... FM is still state of the art.
73 de DB2AJ
interesting what a direct simplex contact would be like...
Thanks for the video. The digital audio sounds like a low bit rate codec, which is exactly what it is. I'll keep my FM rigs though. 73.
So if i have a c4fm radio does it work on dmr repeaters or just fusion
A great video nonetheless, even though I own an FT5D myself. I never do C4FM, DRM, etc., it just sounds crazy.
Great demo. And what a funny coincidence! I just hit the first C4FM demo I found, and here you guys are right from our local OVMRC!
Stephan Vermette
Hi Stephan, if you want a live demo just let me know I'd be happy to let you experience it in person.
That would be very cool!
Outstanding video and demonstration. I'd give it a 10/10 if you ended this with a simplex demonstration analog vs digital. I'd think he might be able to hit you simplex if the repeater is even further away. Keep up the fine work sir. Matt / KF4ULD
Thanks for the kind words. 73
great thx for video 73,
Big difference in clarity
Voice wide sounds better
You didn’t specify if you’re using digital narrow or wide which makes a big difference. Anyway, thanks for the demo. The compression or “codec” that is used needs to be better tuned to sound more natural. I agree with many Hams as it sounds a bit too robotic. lol 😂
guys please dont say c4fm sounds like top quality audio because it dosent,most of the time its bloody terrible,what i dont get is some times different radios sound and seem to produce c4fm differently.
Background noise greatly reduced in C4FM. I have the same radio. 73
Thanks for the demo Dennis, 73 de VA3DGA
Now try to do a video analog vs fusion mobile and you will notice you will lost your signal in some spot when you lose your signal on digital you can hear it on analog , when you start driving the analog have better ears than the digital
sounds similar to a voip call and maybe a bit tinny but that might be down to the speaker.
Everyone currently on FM will hold thier ground on FM, but digital is the way of the future in amateur radio where UHF and VHF are concerned. Good news is that we all have a choice and System Fusion let's everyone choose for themselves. Thanks for the video.
Well done.
Thanks!!! That just answered my questions!!! Perfect!!
Steven Hawking is back.
Very good demonstration.
Nice video, thanks
Good demonstration.
Awesome demo from VK2.
Hi, Digital,,Yuc!!
Nice video, can i use it with a mobile hotspot ?...
Binoy Varghese yes you can expand the horizon with a HotSpot no problem. They are easy to use and fun to explore.
Thanks.
I just ordered this exact mobile radio from Yeasu. In order for digital to work does the repeater have anything to do with it? Do all repeaters take in digital? I’m new to the HAM world and I can’t wait to get this Mobil radio installed in my truck👍😎
Hi, your radio will only work in the digital mode on a Yaesu Fusion repeaters or in simplex mode. It will work in analogue mode on all other repeaters.
73
Hi! After watching the video, I tested with a friend 90 km away throw an analogue repeater without success. Just now, as I read on this comment, only Yaesu repeaters allow these types of dual communication. Congratulations for your videos.
Also were you talking on Symplex or did you have a PO code and an offset programmed in
Did you have to login to the digital through wires x and go into a chat room or was This just using the repeater in a digital mode?