This is another topic I have wanted to explore for a while. Having worked on the Balkans for many years and having spent a lot of time in Serbia, I have always been fascinated by the relationship between Russia and Serbia. It is much more interesting and complex than most outsiders think it is. But I do get the sense that the Ukraine War has changed something. So, is Serbia moving closer to Moscow? And is there a split between the public and the government, as seems to be the case. Or is the Government just leading the EU on and is much more pro-Russian than it presents itself. As always, I’m looking forward to your thoughts and comments. (And please keep it civil. Even if you disagree, we can still discuss it politely.) I’d be particularly keen to hear from any Serbs. What do you think? Have things changed in Serbia, and how?
Your history is bit wrong in some places such as Gavrilo Princip, Tzar Stefan Dusan, but worst is Myth of Serb-dominated Yugoslavia whose leader was Croat Tito.
Yes, I thought to mention that Tito was a Croat! But, in fact, it just wasn’t that important. The whole point was that Yugoslavia was Non-Aligned under his rule. The irony is that this ethos is much more deeply rooted now in Serbia than in any of the other parts of former Yugoslavia - and certainly a lot more than in Croatia.
Any state can. But that entails profound choices. The Serbian government, rightly in my view, sees European integration as the best hope for the country’s future development. I would like Serbia to be part of that. But it is free to choose its direction. And as I said, I do get the sense that many ordinary people see that as heading away from Europe, sadly. That was the whole point of the video.
@@stefantrajkovic7157 Do I believe that Scotland should have a right to determine its own future. Yes. And Wales? yes. And that Ireland should be united if the people want it? Yes. This is the whole problem. Serbia should just have accepted that Kosovo effectively amounted to a seventh republic and let it go. (By the way, before anyone jumps in to correct this, I know it wasn’t a republic. I’ve written a whole book on the status process. But it was republic in all but name.) So, while I accept that the secession was not done legally, I think that Serbia would be best served by reaching a settlement to let Kosovo go. In fact, I have long argued for partition, allowing the Serb areas in the north to remain part of Serbia as a foundation for such an agreement.
Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales cannot be compared to Kosovo and Metohija. Albanians migrated to Kosovo and Metohia. Until the Berlin Congress, the Serbs succeeded under enormous pressure to survive in Kosovo and Metohia and have a majority in Kosovo and Metohia. The real comparison is that migrants like Pakistanis, Hindus and others form their own states on the territory of England. Do you support that?
Dude start is wrong, Serbia didn't lose against Otoman empire, we won but they came back 30 years later, while we could not gather the same army and defend .
@@VladoPiljak you have no evidence what was the outcome of Kosovo battle and even if you did it is not your business. There are absolutely no legal or any other continuity whatsoever between Medieval Serbia which perished without a trace in XV Century and modern Serbia which was recognized as the state in 1878. Any country can now claim Medieval Serbia heritage because there are no noble families in modern Serbia who trace their origins to that date. Modern Serbia had to invent the royal dynasties in XIX Century to claim some continuity and marry their male members with the descendants of the princesses who were married from. Medieval Serbian court into European houses that survived to the modern times and were writing their origins all the time. Pathetic. Even more pathetic was trying to invent some „folk“ poems and songs that cover the lost history and forcing the people to accept those poems as the accurate covering of actual historic events.
Serbia tries to be friendly with every country. Greece and Russia are about the only countries that have not attacked Serbia and so it should not be a surprise that ordinary Serbs have a softer spot for those two European countries than they have for others. It would be nice if the neocons left Serbia alone and instead visited to enjoy its food, hospitality and history of giving the world a bunch of remarkable individuals who have benefited the whole world in science, the arts, as well as sport.
@@janosvasasz7018 Yes, Romania is awesome. Those of us, Serbs, that know of it's existence, love it (with all it's imperfections). It's a quiet border though, hard to notice the country even.
Ok so. There are several layers of relationship between the two countries. The primary one is political and thats Kosovo (JKL is correct here). Serbia needs Russia because legally speaking (despite what Americans would like to claim) the Kosovo issue is still in the UN and UN resolution 1244 is still active and binding (and it states that Kosovo is a part of Serbia). Kosovo will not join the UN until this resolution is abolished. And thus Russia has the ability to both veto any American/British attempt to strong arm / force Kosovo into UN (like they do in many other international bodies) but also to prevent the Americans and British from abolishing the resolution 1244 which they would love to do. Second to all of that, is the economic angle. Unlike what you claimed, nobody here thinks that Russian investment is nonprofitable or harmful, its quite the opposite. Its just not comparable to the Western investment, both in quality and quantity. Serbia had a political deal with Russia (just like Ukraine btw) where it could export industrial goods produced in Serbia onto Russian market without paying tariffs. This has led to many Western (European) companies investing in production capacity in Serbia (including heavy industry, like car production) in order to avoid paying export taxes for the Russian market - thus being more competitive and more profitable not only in Russia but in the entire Russian economic zone (a market of about 200 million people). And in exchange for that, Serbia had sold its national oil and gas distrubution, probably below market value, to the Russians. For which we get (or used to get) gas cheaper than market value. Gas which is required for (heavy) industry. In order to cut their operating costs. And maximize profits. Leading to MORE West (European) investments. For profits. So now that we know the context of things here, the West isnt investing in Serbia because they love us. They do it (and used to do it before) because its profitable. Russia isnt investing in industry here because it has no interest to do so. Serbia is a small country that is not a member of the EU zone and it doesnt have any special political access to the EU economic zone either. ------------- Completely unrelated to all of this we have 2 more issues: Serbia-Russia relations in the UN. Serbia's position in the UN is that its illegal to unilaterally change the borders of country against the will of said country. So invading Serbia and setting up Kosovo as a puppet vassal state which then unilaterally declares independence is very much against the UN charter. Well, invading Ukraine, which is a sovereign country, and annexing its regions, against the will of Ukraine, is basically the same exact thing (minus the step of setting up the puppet vassal state) as what has happened in Kosovo. So Serbia cannot clap in the UN and say "well done Russia". Russians know this. And they are not stupid. They know Serbia must vote on resolutions that condemn invasion and call for ceasefire. They dont care. Half of the global south countries did the same. Serbia-Russia relations vis a vis EU. Serbia is a candidate for the EU membership as we all know. But also as we all know Serbia will never become a member, sort of like Turkey. Because, as we all know, the West will blackmail Serbia over membership with recognition of Kosovo, which Serbia will never accept. And all parties know this. Serbia is however STILL a candidate because the candidate status gives you access to various cheap credits from the EU and various investment project funds. For example EU will pay for construction of roads that fit in EU development plans because even if Serbia is not a member, its still located in a central position and EU having efficient road transit (and river transit in the future) through Serbia is economically beneficial to the EU. So we play this game where EU demands we follow EU foreign policy as a candidate state and we play dumb and say "well were not a member state we dont have to follow your foreign policy, but here, we will vote for this UN resolution that calls for respecting Ukraine's internationally recognized borders". EU gets its virtue signalling moment. We get our virtue signalling moment. Money keeps flowing. Everyones happy. Serbia-Russia relations in context of arms sales to Ukraine. This is where your video has the most inaccuracies and downright purpuseful deceptions IMO. JKL you just cant help it you globalist you. Anyway. Things are very simple. Serbia has a big arms industry. Its a significant part of our GDP. With 10s of thousands of jobs and whatnot. We sell arms and ammo. But we dont sell it to Ukraine. Which Russians know. What happens is the arms and ammo we export to third countries - for example UAE or Bahrein - end up in Ukraine. So military goods that we have sold (in some cases years ago) to third countries are now being bought by Americans (and others) for higher price and then re-exported to Ukraine. There is nothing we can do about that. Nor is there anything we can do to stop it in the future. Unless we completely shut down our arms industies and not export any weapons and ammo at all. Which would be suicidal. Which is why Russians are not retarded to demand this from us. And here we go. Was that context so hard to explain JKL? Really?
Everything perfectly explained. I mean there is a special hypocrisy when western politicians are oh so concerned with the well-being of countries that cooperate with Russia and China, as if the West is just a benevolent and humanitarian group of nations which has never exploited anyone.
Kosovo's case went to international court of justice and it stated that it did not violate any international law... Please let's not forget that Kosovo's case is different... Kosovo is gone and Serbia is using Kosovo as an excuse to keep relations good with Putin... Vucic knows Kosovo is gone.
@@ea1347 Wrong. The question that was asked was whether unilateral secessesion was against the international law. The court chose to ignore the question that was asked and instead answered whether the act of declaration (the paper on which it was written) was in violation of the international law, which i can tell you too, its clearly not. So basically in a typical Western manner they chose to creatively re-interpret that which they didnt like.
@@ea1347 Otherwise, Crimea and Donbass would have declared independence from Ukraine, the West would have immediately recognize them (just like Kosovo) and there would be no war in Ukraine 2014-2022. Right?
Historically Serbias best friend is Romania, we fought longer time on the same side than Russia helped them and when we were in opposite sides we just ignored each other (ww2, Yugoslav civil war). Salutări din România!
A Special Relationship? Only when Serbia's interest is other countries' concern it appears to be a subject to discuss about and make videos on UA-cam, with questionable motives. Serbia and later its baby - Yugoslavia played if not mayor then significant role in both World Wars. It somehow shows how Serbia has the most interesting disproportion between overall positive long term outcome to its periodical belittlement by Great Powers. Maybe Serbia plays her cards optimally, given the geographical, political and economic position. Just because currently is desirable to "cancel" Russia, it does not mean Serbia is on the "wrong side of history". No sir! Tomorrow, the West will shake hands with Russia and will do business as before.
I’m not sure you’re familiar with the concept of a UA-cam channel that looks at international relations. I tend to look at, you guessed it, international relations. Seriously, I don’t get this idea that some people have that just because their country is covered there is some sort of conspiracy. Last week I did Gibraltar, the week before I did Cyprus, the week before that Mongolia. I look at interesting situations and try to frame them in a braided context looking at their history. That’s all. No great conspiracy. As it happens, though, in this case, this is a subject that I have long followed. I know Serbia well and have spent a lot of time there. (My background is as a professor of SE European politics and international relations.)
@@JamesKerLindsay Your analysis in the video starts from the rather interesting premises so the whole structure of conclusions is questionable. With my comment I've tried to help you realize how there could be another angle. When you express your opinion on Serbia that is perfectly fine and, I guess, with good intention.
6:45 you said capitulated. Capitulation is when the whole country surrenders and gives away power and weapons. Serbia withdrew from its southern province Kosovo to central Serbia while keeping the power and army in central Serbia. Mostly because of attacks on civil infrastructure by NATO. The economy was brought back to Stone Ages, all major bridges blown up, factories, power systems were devastated, and it affected civilians. Hunger, sanctions, and lack of basic necessities afttected civilians as well. Only 2% of armed forces have been destroyed. That is no near capitulation. Russia did all of this to Ukraine, destroyed civilian infrastructure, destroyed bridges, and the power systems. Russia is blamed in front of the international community. To be more precise, the West is acusing Russia of war crimes in Ukraine. My question is, why wasn't NATO been accused for doing the same? What happened with around 1k civilians that NATO killed when it bombed downtowns areas and populated areas occupied by civilians? Also, horrific crimes were committed by Serbian paramilitary, in smaller numbers by army and police. Mostly paramilitary forces. Serbia did the job and sent many of its leaders to Hauge. What happened with those who committed crimes against us? The majority are untouchable.
None of it wouldn't have happened if Milosevic didn't cancel the autonomy of SAP Kosovo in 1987, which was against the constitution, and if it wasn't for the Serbian meetings of "truth" that claimed large parts of other federal republics being Serbia. It was Serbian nationalism that caused all other nationalisms in former Yugoslavia, and today, we have what we have. All of it was provoked by third party interest from outside of Balkans. But it was the Serbs who drank from that cup years before others.
Little correction 11:30 , in 1346 Serbia was proclaimed as an Empire and Stefan Dusan as Emperor of Serbs and Romans . Romans because the Byzantine Empire was in the mind of its people and Historicy Roman. And since Serbia ruled majority of former Byzantin/Roman European lands. It's official and in history books world wide.
@@JamesKerLindsay the so called "serbian empire" lasted 20 years and just occupied the remaining defenceless territories of byzantine so it was a self proclaimed "empire" trying to fill the power vacuum after the fall of byzantine but obviously and historical correct is that the ottoman empire was the legal successor of byzantine as they were the ones who defeated them and also took later the remaining parts which serbia tried to take for itself ASAP so there was no serbian empire
I’m under the assumption that Serbia is always going to be taken for granted by the EU/West so it will always look for meaningful relationships with China and Russia, who will likewise pull them away from the West. In turn, it creates a trifecta with the EU reconsidering its stances to prevent Serbia from completely ignoring or divorcing themselves from the EU. People say that the EU is its greatest and most realistic long term partner but so far it looks like it’s broadly held in contempt and the EU only engages with Serbia to prevent complete Russian/Chinese influence. I also think there’s unrealistic expectations of Serbia from the West for it to liberalize/democratize if we include progress done thus far. As of current, Vucic’s government is more pragmatic than Hungary; which is a EU member. And given this is the Balkans, where every ruling party in the government dabbles in monopolizing their party’s power one way or another- I would say it isn’t much different from Croatia, Greece, etc. This is a trend that has to be tackled over the course of decades and only holding Serbia accountable to this when there’s at least five other perpetrators is disingenuous, but it’s probably because Serbia isn’t in the EU and you can’t audit member nations once they’re in. If the west was willing to engage with Serbia on equal standing, then Serbia would probably be more cooperative. It’s been 16 years since 2008, and now the average Serb is much more skeptical about EU ascension, or achieving it without any major EU concessions. I think the current status quo with the trifecta will remain until the EU changes its approach. To me it’s clear Serbia has no other alternative in the long term and has to join the EU; but that’s not going to happen if they give up an arm and leg for nothing in return.
Well said. But I personally don’t see Serbia joining the EU ever. We really don’t need the EU, it’s the EU who are always on our doorstep not the other way around. Serbian people have already seen the double standards EU holds and non democratic thinking it always plays. Personally i think a referendum should take place and see what’s what in regard to Serbia joining EU. More and more Serbs who were interested in joining EU are less interested now. I mean we have a better chance of joining BRICS than EU.
@@stevem4660Referendums with Vucic in power are bad idea. Just like elections. He would rig them.People would vote against EU and in favor of BRICS. He would say people voted in favor of EU and against BRICS. So, no thanks as long he's in power.
@@stevem4660Why? Serbs stand to benefit from the free trade and freedom of movement of the EU. It could also mean much more investment from the richer European countries. Joining the EU means Serbia could be richer and more powerful in the global arena. The Brits are realizing that right now.
@@gm63534 I wonder what the Serbs were doing in Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo and their minority Muslim population ( in Serbia& Montenegro) that would trigger NATO to do such a thing? 🤷
I love all your videos. I particularly like the format starting with a brief introduction of the history . As a South African I can understand public opinion in Serbia . The so-called West has to try and understand that it’s enemies are not necessarily ours . We would like to do what is best for us and that is having good relationships with all countries . We also consider justification for certain actions by the West not to be consistent and also hypocritical.
Why every self-proclaimed "neutral entity" always went "What are you talking about we love every countries, but the west is bad hypocrite ^%$%^#&*^$%&#!"? My country government (Thailand) is also say something similar, but their action, for "unknown reason", always extremely favourable to democracy's nemesis like Russia and China. It's something most people here are (and should) despise our government so much. If South African government has the same stance on Ukraine and Taiwan issues like what they are doing for Palestinian, I would believe in their neutrality, but they don't.
I find a lot of outside reporters try to avoid admitting that some countries don't like that Russia has invaded Ukraine, but still depend on Russia financially.
@@electricVGC hello sir. It appears you worded your sentiment in a weird way. Some countries don't like that USA has pushed Ukraine to sacrifice itself for benefit of a handful of elites. It is sad watching fellow slavics warring with eachother for purely selfish western interests* fixed it.
I guess you just couldn't bring yourself to say that the defensive alliance's attack on Serbia was illegal. Most Serbs thought that the US/EU and others were honest and that they would not break the law. You also failed to mention that Serbia didn't sell arms to Ukraine directly according to Vucic. It sold them to other countries (I think Spain was mentioned) who signed the end user certificates as required. If they passed the ammunition to Ukraine it was illegal. But hey who cares about the law in the collective West. Lots of Russian/Soviet weapons sold to their former allies ended up in Ukraine. So the Russians also supplied Ukraine with arms in the same sense as Serbia.
Thank you so much. I’ve still got a heavy British accent (far more jarring when I speak Greek, apparently), but I hope I do get them write. I’ve spent a lot of time in Serbia and know the country well. I govorim malo srpski. 🙂
I honestly think that to an extent, Serbia is only pragmatic with its relations to Russia because it's outside the EU; Hungary is in and can't really be kicked out, so it can be as pro-Putin as it wants with relatively little consequence. The Serbian government hasn't done itself any favours, especially recently, but I do think EU accession being stalled has in part driven them more towards Russia than the West. I do wonder if Serbs even want to join the EU anymore. I think there was polling recently that showed only 40% of Serbs supported joining the EU. I understand why Serbs think the West is hypocritical for bombing them during the Kosovo war while today also supporting Ukraine, but I also think it's a bit more complicated than them having double standards, i.e., lots of war crimes on both sides of the conflict in Kosovo. Maybe it's too subjective, but you could probably do an entire video on whether NATO was justified or not in its intervention in Kosovo.
Hello you are mostly right as the root of the problem lies in the Yugoslav wars of the 90's. Not Kosovo per se but it played a huge role in the Serbian public opinion. Most of all the Hyperinflation due to 1992- international sanctions (imposed by the western countries) and destruction of the economy. Imagine that the world you live has prices doubling every 15 hours for all goods and necesities, you are out of the international market, borders are closed, there are subsidies bread for coupons which makes feeding your family almost imposible. Gas is being stiffened from ships passing on the Danube and sold in water bottles for foreign currency (Deutch mark).Everything is falling apart, there is war in the west, there are street riots in major cities. Then Russia comes in as the only partner in all of the chaos and start sending ships with goods such as food, medicine and electrical appliances. The bombing of 1999 only cemented the belief of average Serbian joe that EU and the west hate the people of Serbia. As someone who believed in the post Kosovo war propaganda and pro Russia propaganda I would explain it in this way. The world view was that Yugoslavia (as the united land of south slavs) failed in the Pan slavic idea of slavic unification. Everything was left to our Eastern brethren (East slavs) to stop the west and that there will be a great clash some time in the future (these were the beliefs of early 2000's). However everything changed in my case in 2014 when war in Donbas started and all illusions of that idea were smashed and the Ukraine war truly started. "Our eastern brethren" feuded with themselves instead of being united against the west. Nowadays I can speak from my own experience in this regard...as we had all those horrors of the 90's our hearts, prayers and thoughts are with the people of Ukraine who are enduring the horrors we were subjected to and did also helped us in the time of need wretched 90's, our hearts and prayers are with them. Pragmatically, geopolitically and being under russian influence for so long, we are routing for Russia to win as the conflict is seen as the West (NATO) against Russia, as most of ppl think think that it will be vengeance for nato intervention of 99 and ealy decades of 2000's of EU humiliation. Soo mostly the pro russian stance is due to love hate relationship with EU. But at the same time average believer does not speak Russian and has no real idea of Russian mentality, Russia is seen trough the prism of TV screen. In the end are we really pro-Russian by heart or are made due to 90's apocalypse time will tell...
@@moonman62 i see no reason for us to join EU. One reason is behavior of EU towards Serbia. But second, most important is the way EU treats it's own - when EU starts putting European interests in the first place, then we can consider joining.
I saw a few minor mistakes when talking about the history in ww2 area but thats not that important, the important part that i noticed that you didnt show is when you pulled up the poll in the video, yes 70% percent would rather more likely live in EU than in Russia but there is another part of the poll that asked "would you want to live in EU/Be part of European Union if you had to recognise "Kosovo" as a sovereign state" and the result was around 10-13% for joining, also the polls showed that a big number of people wouldnt want to join NATO (as stated, they bombed us), and that comes hand in hand with joining European Union. Even though people living in Serbia know they will never be let in the European Union, because the candidate process started in 2009 and every year the European Union just adds more and more requests even tho we fullfil most of them in time (per say).
Thanks. We have to be a little careful. Joining NATO is not a condition of EU membership. Four EU members aren’t NATO members: Ireland, Malta, Cyprus and Austria. (And Sweden and Ginlsnd joined when they weren’t NATo members.) Serbia can join the EU without joining NATO. That said, I personally think it should join. The argument that NATO bombed Serbia a quarter of a century ago - when it wad under Milošević - means it should never join, just doesn’t make sense. Europe is about reconciliation and cooperation. NATO is central to European security, Serbia should want to be a part of that. But that’s another debate for another day,
I appreciate the focus on Serbia and value the discussion, especially given my personal connection as a Serb. From my perspective, the current strong Russo-Serbian ties stem largely from the shortcomings of Western policies towards the Serbian question. The West, under U.S. leadership, has offered solutions that many Serbs view as inadequate and disrespectful. This diplomatic failure has allowed Russia, China, and other players to exploit the situation in this new multipolar world, which, in turn, aligns with Serbian interests given the perceived betrayal by Western governments. The West’s actions, ranging from the destruction of Yugoslavia, support for separatist groups, and direct military aggression, to continually breaking promises and disparaging an entire ethnic group have created a deep sense of animosity and distrust in the last 35 years. These actions have led to a backlash, as we have not forgotten our history and value our honor, which cannot be bought with money. A shift in Western policies towards the Serbs might change the current situation, but such a change seems unlikely at this moment. As long as the Serbs are divided among three states (Serbia, Srpska and Montenegro) and Kosovo and Metohija remains an unresolved frozen conflict, we will continue to face problems.
Thanks. But don’t you also think that Serbia also needs to rethink its understanding of what happened? People seem to think that NATO just decided one day to start bombing Serbia. Very few acknowledge the damage that Milošević did. And people talk about the violation of Serbia’s territorial integrity. But they forget that Serbia under Milošević showed absolutely no regard for the territorial integrity of Bosnia and Croatia. This is also a huge part of the problem. Too many people in Serbia was to wallow in the narrative of victimisation. It’s easier to present the West as their enemy, rather than try to examine the situation seriously and realise that Serbia is paying the price for Milošević’s disastrous policies.
@@JamesKerLindsay Bombarding of Bosnia and then Serbia by NATO in 1999 opened Pandora's box for other kind interventions over the world. The UN could have deployed blue helmets and its forces to Kosovo instead of issuing resolution supporting the bombing of Serbia by NATO as it did in Bosnia. Was Milosevic an idiot politically speaking? Yes. But the bombing of Serbia was already been decided at that point, the same way the war in 1914 was decided even before archduke was shot by Princip. What was on the table in Rambouillet was no different than what Austro-Hungary requested in 1914, knowing that Serbia wouldn't accept it. Whether the Russia or West, there are no feeling between countries, just pure interest that shifts from time to time. What Serbia sees in NATO is same as what Poland sees in Russia. If the roles were reversed it would be probably the same. Things like friendship, feelings and such are modern creations influenced by anthropomorphic personification of countries by people. But if one has to be used: International relations are like poker; each country wants to profit and hold the hand as much as necessary, but the outcome of the game for it depends on the person (leadership at the table). The more successive successful players show, the country profits in the long run and brings back the money which is then invested in its further development.
@@JamesKerLindsay Professor, respectively, why do you sound like a Kosovo Albanian Reddit bot when you make such claims? Most Serbs of over 18 know absolutely a lot about why things happened, and we all know very well of our war crimes. Why is every paid actor who comments on Serbia, mandated to write that sentence, that we just woke up not knowing why we were bombed. The question is, do you know all the reasons why we were bombed? And how did it got to there? Or was it like "we were warning you, but you were evil"? That's a very nice fairy tale many people in the West can still afford to live by. The problem is that it's not the reality of the situation. And I would love to see how you comment on Albanians, Croatians, Bosniaks perception of their own war crimes against Serbs. Would really love to see it. Eagerly anticipating to hear Albanians talk about 2004, or Croatians about Oluja in black shirts.
Serbia proclaimed itself an empire, it doesnt mean it was recognized as such in international affairs. So technically professor is correct here, Serbia was a kingdom and its king and not emperor was Stefan Dusan. Serbia never got acknowledgment of its status at the time and its emperor and church along with the patriarch were anatemized by byzantine empire and patriarch in Constantinopol. We Serbs should attempt to understand our own history much more than we do.
Serbia is in a tough place, surrounded by the EU and NATO, they need to bid their time, and hope for a change in the weather. It's interesting how between Slovakia, Serbia, and Hungry, there is, if not exactly a pro Russian block, there is pro neutral grouping, in Austria and Croatia there are a lot of, again pro neutral voters. This correspondence to the old Habsburg lands is probably not an accident. When taken together with the very real sympathies of the old Prussian state in eastern Europe in the AFD for Russia, perhaps the old alliance of the 3 empires is not totally forgotten in the modern era.
Indeed. Was thinking myself similar possibility... In my opinion EU is not going to exist in near future as we know it or at all, and it can rise all kind of possibilities, which includes smaller blocks within or unification between countries, however crazy it sounds, but hey we live in crazy times...
@@davidd6842 yes, I do think that the old political cultures of Europe will reassert themselves. You can see that across eastern Europe. This may not be a good thing, most of Europe, even what is now considered liberal western Europe, was actually authoritarian, even the EU itself is showing signs of authoritarianism, especially under the VDL commission. The War in Ukraine seems to have accelerated that process as the EU is moving from its trading mission towards protectionism and securitization. Going to be a interesting next 50 years.
I'm not sure where you're going with this. The Habsburgs themselves have a lengthy history of backing Ukraine, especially the current head of the family, Karl, who is very pro-EU.
Those who do not " see it that way" are just part of liberal current and can easily change their minds. So, all in all, more than 90% Serbs are with Russia, tradicionally and in their heart!!! @@JamesKerLindsay
@@JamesKerLindsay No matter how small, one can not find a country where everyone thinks the same nor would that generally be a good thing. However, when it comes to East vs. West alignment, Serbian people overwhelmingly lean east and conflict in Ukraine only amplified these feelings. While West and West aligned nations tend to think Russian imperialism and Putin's megalomania are the core issue, majority of the rest of the world sees US imperialism thru their hawkish MIC and vassal nations as such.
@@JamesKerLindsay As a Serb I can guarantee you that way more than 80% of us do see Russia as closest ally. What our politicians do is completely irrelevant to the feelings of Serbs towards Russians...we are utterly disgusted by their (our government) actions. The only explanation is that they are just buying time and Russians know that...since we are an easy target and powder keg could be lit anytime... If you understand what I mean, without further explanation. But dont get confused for 1 second that we are divided when it comes to supporting Russia or not.. Maybe people that you hung around with gave you the wrong impression...they are the "fifth column" minority that we always had as a burden and baggage to carry...through centuries.
@@serbianwarrior385 he was a bosnian orthodox who assimilated into a serb...unfortunately...if he remained a bosnian the second world war would have been the first one and the first world war wouldnt have happened
Thank you so much for the SuperThanks. That is incredibly kind. I really and truly appreciate it. Regarding your question, I wasn’t able to track it down. Do you have any more details? Very best regards, James
There is a saying here - "EU pretends to want to let us in, and we pretend that we want in." EU makes the most geographical sense, but the western approach to dealing with us was always to twist our arm and make us cry uncle. In this conflict, we see reverberations of the Yugoslav wars, especially the parallel between Boris Johnson's intervention to stop a settlement early on and US ambassador Zimmermann's sabotaging of the Lisabon agreement that would have stopped the war in Bosnia. You guys are harder to live with than you would like to think...
At a time when 27 countries, many of which were frequently at war in past are all partners in the EU, and all Serbia’s neighbours are getting on with European integration, perhaps it’s time to ask if the problem perhaps lies in Serbia!? Seriously, I have spent a lot of time there. I know the country well. But there really needs to be some introspection about the Milošević years and the damage that this has done to the country’s standing. There is no great plot against Serbia. There never was. But so many people there just don’t want to consider what happened in the 1990s. For instance, people complain about Kosovo and the violation of Serbia’s territorial integrity. Did Serbia care about the violation of Bosnian and Croatian territorial integrity when RSK and RS were trying to break away? No, not at all. See, no one thinks in those terms. It’s all about Serbia being the victim of unprovoked aggression. There is just no honest introspection.
@JamesKerLindsay You can't just cherry-pick parts of the constitution you like and ignore other inconvenient parts. Bosnia and Croatia didn't have the right to secede without the consent of all the constitutional peoples therein. Once the nationalist governments trampled those rights, the Serbian minorities reacted. But OK, if the west had one set of principles in Bosnia and Croatia, why did they change their tune in Kosovo? They bombed the rebelling Serb minority of Krajina into exodus, but they helped the rebelling Albanian minority in cleansing their territory. The west armed and directed the insurgency in Kosovo. Any constitutionally sanctioned police or military action would have caused the west to intervene, which was the point. We only had the option of resisting or yielding our sovereignty without a fight. But of course, the narrative can never be that the empirial will of the west was imposed onto us. No, we just needed a lesson in humanitarian crisis resolution...
@@JamesKerLindsay "At a time when 27 countries, many of which were frequently at war in past are all partners in the EU, and all Serbia’s neighbours are getting on with European integration, perhaps it’s time to ask if the problem perhaps lies in Serbia!?" That is not an argument its straw-man, i can use same on you, if you look at the amount of people that are supporting Serbia in its Kosmet issue its a lot bigger than vice versa, so by your standard it means that problem lies in you/EU/NATO? You need to prove that there is no great plot against Serbia because all evidence points otherwise, just stating that does not make it true. We know what happened in 1990 and there was HEAVY INVOLVEMENT from outside, supporting separatism from outside forces was BLATANT and OBVIOUS. Yes Milosevic lost the war, well how can he win against such a massive force, its impossible and he made a lot of mistakes yes, so have the other separatists leaders which you fail to recognize and admit, WE HAVE SUFFERED FOR IT GREATLY SO CAN YOU PLEASE LEAVE US ALONE NOW? Oh wait its not over yet, we need to suffer until we stop to exist that is the only time when you will be satisfied. Sorry but you do not get to decide my fate, only GOD almighty is in charge of that, you might think you are objective but i assure you that you are very biased and actually starting to look like you have some kind of Serbofobia in you. I just fail to recognize what have Serbs ever done to you? There must be some reason for this irrational behavior...
I have to disagree with you professor. Serbian current political positioning is as pro Russian as it can be. The only reason they are not more open about it is because they are landlocked and surrounded by Nato countries.
The Serbs have always looked up to the Russian people and Russia. Like the Croats have always looked up to the Germans and Germany. On the other hand Muslims in Bosnia are more attached to Turkey. Having this in mind, the situation in this part of the Balkans have and will always be very complicated and dependent on the global geopolitical movements.
@@bojanakolak7451 nothing wrong with looking up to Russia or Russian society. The issue is rather the Russian imperialist ambitions and Serbian "Greater Serbia" ambitions. We have to recognize that these ideas are violent and incompatible with a democratic society that values human rights
You got it 100%. And that is correct for Serbian official government . Just imagine ordinary people. They don’t care what others think about them. They are pro Russian much more than official government.
Thank you. This was fascinating. I was reminded of historian Norman Davies complaint that west Europeans tended to view the history of Poland (and other parts of astern Europe) through the lens of the Yalta agreement. In Poland's case it meant that in the 1940s, when the western arm of the Polish home guard fought a partisan war against German invaders, it was claimed they were on the allied side. When the same group in the east of the country fought a partisan war against the Soviet Union, they were called Nazi sympathisers! We seem to have the same need to put Serbia in a "with us or against us" framework, rather than admit their own perspective and priorities may not neatly fit our viewpoint.
Thank you so much Tony. A brilliant point. In one sense, I can understand why Belgrade took the pragmatic decision to engage with Moscow to fight its battle over Kosovo. It was just doing what it felt it needed to do to defend a national issue. But as I hoped to show this wasn’t down out of any deep conviction of Serbian-Russian friendship, as is commonly presented by many in the West or by Serbian nationalists - an odd pairing who reach the same exaggerated conclusions for completely different reasons.
6:43 Correction, but important one. Serbia DID NOT capitulate in '99. The war ended with the signing of the Kumanovo Agreement on June 9, 1999, and the following day UN resolution 1244 was adopted, and the Yugoslav army withdrew from Kosovo. ONE MORE IMPORTANT THING, the action was carried out without the approval of the United Nations Security Council.
Thank you, but it did capitulate. It did not surrender. There is an important difference, that many people don’t actually realise, or confuse. Capitulate is defined as ceasing resistance. This is what Serbia did.
Russia is the only country that is committed to upholding the Dayton Agreement which protects minority rights within Bosnia Herzegovina. And Russia supports the territorial integrity of Serbia with regards to Kosovo. Yes it's a hypocritical position but that's against the US who's hypocrisy is 100x worse. But all of that is beside the point, I'd say China has a special relationship in the 21st century as their initiatives within Serbia has revived much of the economy that was destroyed by NATO and the dissolution of Yugoslavia
In Bosnia, the West is violating the internationally accepted Dayton Agreement to the detriment of the Serbs. In Macedonia, they are breaking agreements to the detriment of Macedonians. In Kosovo, they support the creation of a new state. And each of those events are supposedly special, and cannot be approached in the same way because they are very different. In essence, they have a long-term policy of weakening Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia, because they are countries that look favorably on the Russians.
It is a misconception that Russia has historically been an ally of Serbia. In the late 1940s, the Russians were arming, training, and supporting the Albanians against the Serbians. Between 1948 and 1953, there were 7,877 border clashes between Albanian groups, backed by the Russians, and Serbian border guards, who were supported by the USA.
Here is a Fun Fact about the Russia: It was Russia who saved The Union during the American Civil War as they sent their Navy to San Francisco and New York when England and France were just about to enter the war on the side of the Confederates since London created the Confederates. France was already in Mexico making a spear head movement to resupply the Confederates and to open up a Pacific Theatre and to create a port in California. England already amassed 11,000 troops and growing stationed at their Northern Confederacies border now called Canada ready to open a Northern Theatre to divert Union troops away from their Southern Confederacy then to attack The Unions naval blockade. The Union would have been completely destroyed and annexed by those two great powers leaving the Confederates to exist as either a puppet state of London or to be fully brought back into the fold of the British Empire. London was already courting (threatening/bribing) other countries to get involved like Spain while Russia was in talks with Prussia to ally with incase London was to intervene. Seeing all of this Tsar Alexander II wrote a letter to Queen Victoria saying “If you enter in this war it will be a casus belli for all out war with the Russian Empire”. The stage was set for the 1st World War and Russia stopped it.
There is also a memorial in San Francisco for the hundreds of Russian sailors who came off their Asiatic fleet ships that died while helping the city put out a fire that threatened to lay waste to it during the War. The Russian fleet also threatened to Shell Australian ports along with other British Pacific Colonies if Britain aided the Confederates. A confederate war ship spent a lot of time in Australian waters and was supported by the Australian public, some even signing on as crew members. This Confederate war ship laid waist to the US Pacific whaling fleet and is reported to have fired the last shot in the war. The name of the ship was called the CSS Shenandoah. Its surrender was at Liverpool England where Confederate Commander Bulloch was stationed. Bulloch was the head spy Chief for the Confederates and main go between for London, Montreal, and Richmond. He was heavily involved in the finance of the South with British banking and supplied the south with its warships as most of them were made by the British. He was good friends with those who drafted the Very discriminatory Confederate Constitution and those that would later create the 'Clan'. He was also heavily involved in the assassinations of Lincoln and his cabinet members. He was Also the Uncle to President Theodore Roosevelt (on his mothers side of course) and Teddy greatly looked up to him and learned much from him from a very early age. Teddy called him 'Uncle Jimmy'. This is where Teddy Roosevelt got the idea for the 'Eff Bee Eye' he modeled it almost exactly from Londons 'Em Eye Five'. Russia also helped Thailand (Kingdom of Siam) maintain its sovereignty from being completely Partitioned/Annexed from the British and French around the same time. The very word Thai (ไทย) means 'free man' in the Thai language which is partially to thank to the Russians as they might have ended up being a colony or part of another country/colony if not for their intervention.
@@pio4362 I think you will enjoy this quote from the Russian Foreign Minister Alexander Gorchakov writing to Lincoln in the Autumn of 1862 a year and a half into the war- "You know that the government of United States has few friends among the Powers. England rejoices over what is happening to you; she longs and prays for your overthrow. France is less actively hostile; her interests would be less affected by the result; but she is not unwilling to see it. She is not your friend. Your situation is getting worse and worse. The chances of preserving the Union are growing more desperate. Can nothing be done to stop this dreadful war? The hope of reunion is growing less and less, and I wish to impress upon your government that the separation, which I fear must come, will be considered by Russia as one of the greatest misfortunes. Russia alone, has stood by you from the first, and will continue to stand by you. We are very, very anxious that some means should be adopted-that any course should be pursued-which will prevent the division which now seems inevitable. One separation will be followed by another; you will break into fragments."
@@pio4362 Here is another quote I think you will like but from Tsar Alexander II in an Interview after the war: "In the Autumn of 1862, the governments of France and Great Britain proposed to Russia, in a formal but not in an official way, the joint recognition by European powers of the independence of the Confederate States of America. My immediate answer was: "I will not cooperate in such action; and I will not acquiesce. On the contrary, I shall accept the recognition of the independence of the Confederate States by France and Great Britain as a casus belli for Russia. And in order that the governments of France and Great Britain may understand that this is no idle threat; I will send a Pacific fleet to San Francisco and an Atlantic fleet to New York."
Prof Ker-Lindsay, all your videos are great, but this one is really amazing! A very carefully considered look at a complex topic. Thanks for making it and sharing it
Thank you so much! I really and truly appreciate it. This was a subject that has long interested me and I have spoken about to people on my many trips to Serbia.
Excellent video, objective and unbiased! So, Serbia as a country (political establishment) may not be that much pro Russian, more of "Independent" stance (want to be friends with everybody), but Serbs on the other hand are in vast majority pro Russian. I'm saying this as a Serb.
Onda mi, kao Srbin, reci zašto su stotine hiljada Srba otišli za Nemačku a niko za Rusiju? Ko i ode vrati se glavom bez obzira. Govoriš o nekakvim bajkovitim emocijama, ali praktično su nepotkrepljene.
@@Ms777Lena Hoću, rado. Ovo je jedan od uobičajeno glupih pitanja. Naime, ljudi su išli u Njemačku na rad i krajem tridesetih godina, pa su završili u logorima. Ljudi su od svih okupiranih krajeva išli u Rim da traže posao. Ljudi su iz okupirane Indije išli za Englesku. Ljudi uvijek idu tamo gde se trenutno nalazi sila i novac. Ali to ne znači da je ta sila pravedna i da je taj novac pošten. Sutra će isto tako (a već su zapadnjaci počeli) da se sele u Rusiju u potrazi za istim.
@@BorisTeodosijevic ne mogu da otvorim odgovor iz nekog razloga. Govorim o godinama Vučićeve vladavine. Lekari i inženjeri pristižu dnevno. Kakve 30te?
@@BorisTeodosijevic da li me zezaš? Rusi se svakodnevno doseljavaju u Srbiju, da ne govorim o Nemačkoj. Dnevno. Ima ih svugde, jedna od brojnijih grupa stranaca ja mislim, u svakoj zemlji. Oni beže odande a nama je Rusija super? O čemu pričaš? Nije je za džaba Dostojevski nazvao "tamnicom naroda".
@@Ms777Lena Pričam o tome da niste obavješteni. Iz Rusije odlaze oni prozapadne Rusi, a u Rusiju se doseljavaju zapadnjaci koji traže tradicionalne vrijednosti i sigurnu budućnost.
Good analysis Professor! As a Serb and follower of your work and channel (I referenced your work in my master’s thesis!), I find this video well balanced and insightful for many who do not understand the complex relationship between Serbia and Russia. Thanks!
Thank you so much Aleksandar! I really am fascinated by this subject. I have had so many conversations with Serbian friends about this subject over the years. But, as I said, I have just had a sense that something has changed with the Ukraine war and wanted to understand what it was. It does seem that it is really about double standards of the West rather than an instinctive pro-Russian sentiment, which I don’t think is nearly as prominent as many outsiders like to think it is. Hvala puno i laku noć.
@@JamesKerLindsay Serbs see Russian full scale invasion of Ukraine as NATO vs Serbia part two, and illogically support a brutal invasion and secession of Ukrainian territory no matter the fact that similar thing happened to them with Kosovo. However not many like logics in Serbia, national myths are much more appreciated so here we are. In Serbia there is a saying:"The politics is a whore". Double standards are somewhat a norm in politics. Of course the west has double standards when it comes to Serbia, and the west holds some responsibility of what is happening in Serbia, but much less than what an average Serb believes . The problem is that Serbs allowed themselves to get into this situation in the first place, and now they use this "double standards" as an excuse for everything that happens. When trowing flowers on tanks going to Croatia during the nineties it was all fine, but when the price needed to be paid suddenly everyone cries about Kosovo and double standards. Serbian society needs to learn a lot about democracy, then forget their populistic myths about the ethnicity, religion and nation being a genetic category, and third they need to stop blaming others for their own stupidity. Only then the nation will raise the head above the shitty water in which it is bathing now.
Yeah, nowhere near in comparison to the US Albanian relationship or the Germany Croatian relationship. Serbs, however insignificant, always try to maximize their independence from the big powers. They are the Piedmont of the South Slavs, the Iran of the Balkans.
Serbia WANTED to be the Piedmont of the southern Slavs, but failed miserably. In 1918, most South Slavs welcomed the union of nations and creation of SHS/Yugoslavia, but by 1930 the undemocratic and centralistic/unitaristic Serbian leadership had turned the majority of the non-Serbian population against the idea.
@@grol2803 Some details were alreay agreed during the First World War, but after the dissolution of Austria-Hungary, the State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs voted in favour of uniting with Serbia and establishing the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes.
@@markopinteric You used past tense by mistake here😊. Yeah because repression happens without a cause. Don't mix the cause and effect. The Croats started destroying the Yugoslavia from the day they joined. Why? Because they wanted their own country for centuries and had to join bcs the Allies would partition the country if they didn't obey. So no, the Serbs are not the cause of all Croatian problems.
The Serbs are a very pragmatic people. The video did a great job outlining some important points in Serbian history but omitted key moments. From the Serbian perspective, they felt that Serbs living in neighboring countries (Croatia, Bosnia, etc.) should have enjoyed more protections in those regions. Also, many of them were not too keen on Milosevic and company and felt the West was was legitimizing his regime while he was "useful" to them. Many Western institutions went out of their way to reinforce these feelings of abandonment and persecution that the Serbs felt by ensuring unfairness in reporting, negotiations and treatment. This continues to this day. What bring Serbs and Russians together the most is how they perceive their unfair treatment by the west. One last point Serbs and 99.9% of the world choose to learn English, not out of reverence for the West, but out of pragmatism, English is the Lingua Franca of the world. England's influence is as the Serbs would say "изпушено"
@@ajazvo Most Serbs know English pretty well a lot better then I thought not counting us in the diaspora that went to elementary school outside the country.
Serbia has shown to have more balls and courage than the whole of Europe combined! By resisting pressure from the US and its attack dog nato. So even Serbia was to bend under this pressure it would be understandable because this is tremendous pressure. Many countries were only too happy to bend to the US global hegemony without even the slightest resistance.
Serbian population is as you suggested largely pro Russia government is disconnected from the people. I will add good deeds stay long in the memory, while we have bitter taste with west throughout the history.
Thanks. But I think it is also important not to confuse what happened in the 1990s under Milošević with the broad sweep of history. Throughout the 20th century Britain and France were close allies of Serbia. This tends to be forgotten. The focus in on the Yugoslav wars, a situation that people often read through a particularly distorted lens, has come to dominate the discussion and yet all the other times are overlooked.
Thanks. The poll was indeed quite old. That was the bit in the video where I was discussing attitudes before the Ukraine War. I think you’re right about current views. As I mentioned, my sense is that Serbian public opinion has shifted against the EU. (But also because the EU accession process is dragging on so long. Something I might try to cover in other video.)
@@JamesKerLindsay i was just getting ready to write "I got you" comment. 80% doesn't want anything with EU, their LGBT policies, not to mention even whispers of legalizing pedophilia. Also crime in 99' was not forgotten!
@@JamesKerLindsayIt's more layered. The slow accession is an important aspect, but people don't care about the actual length of the process, as much as lies about the fast entry in the first place. It's this sort of carrot-chasing that is the primary factor for erosion of EU accession support. Other reasons, of about equal importance, include: EU's pretty obvious support for Kosovo, and the general perception that EU's interests are conflicted with Serbian national interests; EU' staunch support for Ukraine; EU being seen more and more as an imperialist force that just wants to use the Balkans as a playground. Just today, you had Vucic and Scholz sign a memorandum on the exploitation of lithium (jadarite). So now you have all traditional Eurosceptic sides, combined with an increasing number of regular people, and even eco-oriented apolitical populations. I'd argue that, if it were an honest referendum on whether Serbia should continue it's European integration, _and_ if Vucic remained neutral, you'd have like 60% against. Citizens of Serbia don't believe that EU accession will benefit them. Those that want EU will simply leave for Wester European countries. There are other lesser reasons as well. Right-wing people see EU as a hotbed of NGOs and "gender ideology", and right wing is pretty much the norm here.
The Serbian people will decide what is best for Serbia and their Families as the Hungarians have done also. We do not go against our Russian Brothers and Sisters. Politics have always played a big part in all our lives. God Bless all Slavics we all have something to contribute to a better lifestyle for ourselves and our Freedom. From an Australian Serbian, Hungarian ancestry on my mother,s side, Serbian on my Fathers side and Baptized Russian Orthodox Church in Sydney. I am hoping a Peaceful solution for all Slavics is on its way, with Respect. God Bless. ❤
Thank you for this. I find it very interesting, hope i had some Serbian friends i could talk to on whats happening there. From all i have gathered a very patriotic country of good people who deserve better future.
As a Serb I can safely say that joining EU was lucrative prospect until that war happened that devolved EU into NATO's economic sector. Being surrounded by those organisations from all sides Serbia has to play neutral for it's own survival as just joining the EU to give up everything and embrace migrant quotas and current "strategic defeat against Russia" objective is not in our best interest. Serbs were and remain friends of Russians, there is no eventuality that can change over politics as it occurred in Greece.
Thanks. But I have to say that it comes across as a really isolationist worldview in Serbia when the answer to all your neighbours and trading parties being part of the EU means that Serbia should stay out of it! 27 countries are now members, with others lining up to join or having close relations - and even the UK is increasingly regretting leaving. I don't understand this outlook. Sometimes, it seems that many Serbs enjoy the idea of being a victim and standing apart from all their natural partners - many of which have had long histories of fighting each other in the past but can now see the benefits of European unity.
Serbia has a special relationship with Russia for the following reasons: 1. The support of Imperial Russia in the liberation of Serbia from the Ottoman Empire. 2. The entry of the Russian Empire into the First World War due to the defense of Serbia against Germany and Austria-Hungary and others. 3. The liberation of Belgrade by the Red Army in the Second World War. 4. And now in modern times the support of Russia in the preservation of Serbian sovereignty and integrity. And a million more reasons. religion, culture, language, and roots of the Slavs. At this time, because of this relationship, the EU and US they put enormous pressure on Serbia in every way, because it is the only one in Europe that did not impose sanctions on Russia, and that also did not recognize the war territories that Russia took, Serbia considers those territories to be Ukrainian. Serbia is neutral. So it will be.Think with your heads, don't listen to the media, I wish you a nice day.
The Serbian people love Russians as their own. The Serbian state, is occupied by the USA and administered by Christopher Hill, if not on paper, in reality. This is a temporary thing, as is the USA.
You clearly forgot or didn't know that the British soldiers lost their lives while fighting on the Serbian side in the World War 1. You didn't know that during the 1990s Russia voted 3 times in the UN for sanctions against Serbia. You didnt know that after Tito-Stalin split, the Russians were arming Enver Hoxha and supported albanian bands to attact the serbian border guards between 1949 to 1953. You don't know that Russia was selling weapon to Croatia during the croatian war with Serbia? Or that Russians were separating Montenegro from Serbia 3 times since the Congress of Berlin of 1878...etc
You are soooooo wrong mr Profesor. Kosovo had a autonomy prior to Nato, US and European Union muscling Serbia out in order to build one of the biggest air bases in Europe. Serbia did not capitulate. Far from it. They signed an agreement which Serbia trusted to be European and American word of honor which gave Serbia rights under that UN 1244 agreement. Serbia is a sovreign country that is independent. More than I can say for Germany, France or for that matter, Italy. Everyone should be like Serbia, than we would have a better world.
As a Canadian in Belgrade, I find it fascinating to hear what Serbians think about Russia, China and the U.S. I hope to learn more about their perspectives as I learn Serbian because, unfortunately, I find that only speaking English here limits my understanding of the culture, especially considering the latest wave of Russian immigrants (I'm saying this as a non-expert on the topic; I know you've written extensively on Serbia). Please feel free to make more videos on the Balkans; they're always welcome! It's an area of interest for both of us. 🇷🇸 Cheers! -Phil Sidock
I've always taken the view that the Serbian authorities really do understand that their future lays within the EU . This is why they are a candidate member , they also see their neighbors Slovenia and Croatia who have already joined the EU advance and progresss much faster than themselves . Yes Serbia has historical and cultural links with Russia but the hard reality is what the EU offers and what Russia offers are two different pathways completely . Serbia is a European country and must choose the EU for its future prosperity , in fact keeping close relations with Russia could be a good thing for Serbia and for the EU as it keeps the doors open for any discussions post Ukraine war .
Thanks so much, Roddy. That’s pretty much my view as well. I had a few other insights and anecdotes on the topic that I had to cut out (sadly for reasons of time and tone), but one point I wanted to make is that I always remember a senior Serbian official telling me how Russian company directors were robbing Serbia. They were taking huge monthly salaries (€30k ten years ago!) and yet no one knew who they were, let alone ever met them. Another point concerned the new Belgrade Waterfront. As someone said, “our ideal is to sell ten apartments to Russians, but have the shops downstairs owned by Eestern companies. Who wants to buy Russian products!?”. It really did suck U.K. a lot of ten attitudes I see in Serbia. The relationship certainly isn’t how it is often presented; either by nationalist Serbs processing an eternal love for ‘Mother Russia’, or by the usual anti-Serbian Western voices who want to see Russophilia behind every action.
Yes,truth.Buth this relationship Serbia-EU is very frustrating-do this,do that,not good,,now do this plus things,you will be the member in 10-15 years.... etc.By this "rules" no one country now in EU never could be a member.Mr Scholtz openly said that Serbia had to be member before 20 years.And now,with this hysteria with Ukraine,all this is far away.Yesterday,i found some article-EU baned 70 million euros help for Bosnia because of some rules...In same time when Ukraine got 40 BILLIONS!So,im old man,for me ,story with EU for Serbia is just a joke,i dont want to hear it anymore-liars from both sides.
Haha! Indeed. Seriously though, I don't think I have been particularly inflammatory. As I mentioned, I have spent a lot of time in Serbia and often talked about this. It is a really interedting situation and less straightforward than it seems. But, yes, I think I am probably asking for it! :-)
For over 200 years, Russian volunteers fought for the Serbian army, and Serbian volunteers fought for the Russian army. Politicians are politicians. People are people. Politicians and their policies do NOT reflect the opinion of the majority.
Serbia has had a complicated relationship with the Russians in the 20th century. (1) The Russian Czar after listening to the Serbs ended up entering WW1. As a result, he and his family were murdered by the Bolsheviks. (2) the Serbian (Yugoslav) Royal family had a hostile relationship with the Soviet Union. (3) After 1948 Tito ( o.k he was a Croat/Slovene but the head of the Yugoslav communist Party in Belgrade) and the Yugoslav communist party had a bad relationship with Stalin and the Soviet Union. (4) Russian President Yeltsin in the 1990s did not like Serbian President Milosevic on a personal level.
One thing to add: as a Serbian I remember far too well May 1992, when UN has approved a resolution posing international sanctions to Yougoslavia (consisting of Serbia and Montenegro). These sanctions had devastating consequences to our economy. At that time Russia has voted FOR these snactions at UN. They could have easily vetoed it if they wanted to support us and we would be far too grateful. But no, they even did not absent, they voted FOR the sanctions. I will never forget them this one.
Good point. You’re right. I was actually rather easier on Russia in the 1990s than I could have been. But it’s interesting that many Serbs look at the events of the 1990s when world opinion was united against Milošević and don’t seem to ask whether Serbia was perhaps in the wrong. Also, I think that part of the reason the West was willing to accept Kosovo’s secession was precisely because Serbia hadn’t cared about the territorial integrity of Bosnia and Croatia just a few years earlier when Serbs in RS and RSK tried to break away.
❤Я казах родившийся в россии в СССР в 1983 году и живущий тут простите нас братья сербы у нас тогда был у власти предатель Ельцин который изберался во власть на деньги Америки это сами американцы подтвердили что Ельцин избирался на деньги Америке и был их марионеткой который сделал россию нео колонией США и мы в те времена не знали об этом и не понимали что происходит в нашей стране и в мире отрезвление пришло при Путине
@@JamesKerLindsay You say: „Serbia hadn’t cared about the territorial integrity of Bosnia and Croatia just a few years earlier when Serbs in RS and RSK tried to break away“. An incredible statement that is light years away from the truth. Stop misleading. Serbs from Bosnia and Croatia they declared themselves in favor of remaining in Yugoslavia, whose integrity was disturbed by Croats and Bosnian Muslims in cooperation with the collective West. The integrity of Yugoslavia and then Serbia is irrelevant in your narrative, and you have a universal justification for their gross violation - Milošević. But that's why the integrity of Bosnia and Croatia are the holy of holies. An interesting interpretation of international law.
No, it isn’t. That was the whole point. The relationship is far more complex than that. Some Serbs may see it that way, and you may be one of them. But I know many who have a very different feeling towards Russia, especially Russia under Putin.
@@JamesKerLindsaynothing is complex, most of Serbs are for Russia , some anti Serbs and vučić and his criminal gang aren't , it's that easy. There are also some people misled by propaganda but that can be fixed when media is liberated
What analysts seem to not get, at least in my opinion, is that the choices on Serbia's side have no real national interest behind them. Serbia right now is basically completely controlled by its president and his mafia regime that clings to power by election rigging and media control. The choices are purely made to keep Vucic in power and to enrich him as much as possible. The ruling party has deep ties with the mafia, so much so that they basically are the mafia. The only real thing that shapes policy outside of that is public opinion, which in turn is influenced by Vucic and his cronies through captured media outlets. Just some days ago Vucic basically gave a whole lithium mine to Germany and the EU - anything to stay in power and get dirty money; it has nothing to do with Serbia and its interests.
Very well, in most of your previous episodes I had mainly critics and counterarguments, this time, at this episode I am without critics because what has been said is very truthful. At the end of analysis there could be a recommendation for the future of Serbia. I would like to give you a suggestion for your next episode, for example, "Serbia as a member of EFTA agreement". If European Union don't trust Serbia and has a fear that like Hungarians Serbs will block all decisions against Russia, isn't it good temporary solution for West to join Serbia to EFTA where are already Norway, Switzerland, Island and Lichtenstein. Serbs would immediately felt themselves as a part of the Western civilization and later the problems with Kosovo would be much easier to negotiate then it is now when we are outside of Western society. I wish you to continue your work and hope that European decision-makers will take into account your analysis. Best regards.
The so-called "professor" is a clown, a childlike mind who thinks that "special relationships" (which does exist between Slavs of Serbia and of Russia) has to be perfect in every way.
An excellent video professor! Very balanced as always, and much to the point. You are absolutely right about the complexity of this relationship and the recent shifts in public opinion. It would be also good to supplement this with a video on how the EU and USA have propped up Vucic's authoritarianism for opportunistic reasons, opening the space for Russian influence in Serbia. As testified by my democratically minded friends in Serbia, the western powers seem much more interested in Vucic giving in on the Kosovo issue and advancing business interests than in democracy. The latest example is their support for a lithium plant in western Serbia which may have devastating consequences for the environment.
6:28 It wasn't mainly inhabitet by ethnic Albanians before Tito let hundreds of thousands of them to settle there by allowing them to move from Albania and it's shit China tied communist Hoxha dictator. They were let in to have better lives... then they rebeled.. started attacking police patrols from ambush etc..
Excellent analysis. Though western media always says Serbia is some sort of Russian satellite, president Vucic is trying hard to balance its relations with the EU and Russia. As you know I've been exploring the Balkans for months and I stayed more than 2 months in Serbia and 1 month in Kosovo. Serbian population is the one in the Balkans that speak better English. It's really unlikely to find a Russian speaker. It is true that it is easier to find "proeuropean" people, specially among young people, but in my opinion this is due their inferiority feel on their difficulties in travelling and working abroad. They see how in almost all sorrounding countries young people can travel and work easily abroad and this is specially painful for the young generations. But at the same time they know they have sovereignty, they don't forget what NATO did there and how still today people is dying from cancer from the tons of depleted uranium thrown there and so on. If Serbia was granted with Schengen privileges I have no doubt they wouldn't feel the need to join EU (although this is not going to happen of course). Serbia is also cheaper than all the countries sorrounding them that are in the EU. And they know prices will rise if they join like it happened in Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania or Hungary. They also know that historically Russia has always supported them (Ottomans, World Wars, Kosovo...) so they feel they have to give back too. About Kosovo I'll leave my vision for another video. Thank you professor
Thanks so much. It interesting to hear that your experiences very much mirror my own in Serbia. That’s why I was so keen to make this view. I would keep hearing outsiders complain about Serbia’s innate pro-Russian sentiment. I also gut fed up with the nationalists always saying how great Russia is and how all Serbs love it. In fact, both sides are wrong. The relationship is a lot more complex than many realise, and in many what’s what we are seeing now is more about anti-Western anger than real and true-Russian sentiment.
It's not just Serbia. most of the Balkans have a good relationship with the Russians. The only reason anything like arms sales occur to Ukraine and other non-Russia friendly nations is because of pressure exerted on the Serbian government (or other governments in the area) at a time of weakness. This is why, this is the only reason. If you ask anyone in the Balkans if they like the Russians, the sentiment is generally positive with the exceptions of some youth whose minds have been warped over the last 20 years by the influence of American news in the region. Everyone from the Balkans knows, understands and respects the Russians and their immense sacrifice from 1941 to 1945. The world would have been a completely different place if that terror in Germany had continued to exist. Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, Montenegrins, Macedonians, Slovenians have never forgotten that sacrifice and god willing our children will never forget it.
Serbia, as you mentioned, has historical and religious ties with Russia. Complex relationship in past , for sure. Serbia also had a good relationship with the west. Prior as a kingdom and also after WWII. However … Big powers always had a special interest in Balkan, especially in Serbia. They need their influence in the region. There is no friendship it’s all about interest, read money. Yugoslavia was fueled, mostly by the west, to fall apart. We have seen the results of these decisions. Economy destroyed, banking system also, people were put on brink of poverty, many to poverty status. Foreign companies, banks came and bought domestic companies for pennies. USA and west needed Yugoslavia as a friend because Soviet Union. Just to show world that socialist/communist country can be treated friendly. After collapse of communism that friendly country lost on importance and therefore collapse of Yugoslavia was just another step of control of newly formed countries. NATO bombing , for sure, pushed Serbia closer to Russia nowadays. Russia is using that for their own interests. Again there is no love ,just money or to prevent other side to gain influence. I can say same for China,first influence in Balkan and later in Europe. Unfortunately we are in a big chess game and someone else moves the pieces. This beautiful historically rich country has several problems. First Serbs are very proud people and they value freedom and independence. Second Serbia is small country with low population that is declining. Third Serbia is NOT nuclear power. Small population equals smaller economy. Non nuclear means, well we all know that and Serbia wants to be independent!? Well that’s a NO NO for all big players. That’s why Serbia is balancing between powers. You’ll always have pro west and pro Russian people in Serbia. Neither side can’t and shouldn’t prevail because it would lead to uncharted territory.
Thank you for this and many videos. I'm just curious if you would elaborate further on reasons for or evidence of Serbian public opinion shifting more toward being pro Russian - maybe it is as simple as it being a reaction to 'Western hypocrisy' for the Nato bombing of 1999 relative to Ukraine? My next question following on from this would be - are Ukraine and Kosovo comparable? I was very aware of hatred toward Nato for the bombing campaign when I was there - it's quite inescapable.
@@micahrickards6016 Thanks. I actually had a bit more in the video about polar attitudes, but I had to cut it out for time and focus. I know Serbia well. I have spent a lot of time there and I speak to many Serbs. I also see how the conversation plays out online. I have seen things change a lot over the past 20 years. There was a distinct change in tone after the start of the Ukraine war. I also noticed it with good friends who were generally more pro-Western. Many felt angry about what they saw as double standards. (And I can actually see why, although I think that the other part of the problem is that too many Serbs forget what Milošević did.) I also remember a Serbian friend years ago talking about the complex relationship with Russia and that while it may have seemed close on the surface, underneath the two people were very different and many Serbs didn’t trust the Russians. This was about 30 years ago. It always stuck with me. I have long been fascinated in the relationship and wanted to make a video on it. Regarding Ukraine and Kosovo, we obviously need to be careful. Context s everything. But, from a strictly legal perspective, the Serbs are right. Kosovo’s unilateral Declaration of Independence was contrary to standard practices and the West had no right to recognise it. (By the way, the ICJ was deliberately asked the wrong question. It should have been asked about the legality of the UDI. Instead, the question should have been whether other UN members violated their obligation to respect Serbia’s territorial integrity by recognising an independent Kosovo state. This is an interesting issue.) All this said, I have also long taken the view that Kosovo should have been regarded as effectively being a seventh Yugoslav republic and that Serbia should have just let it go its own way in the context of the more general dissolution of the country. It would have made a lot of sense - especially after Montenegro broke way in 2006. Frankly, if fellow Serbs couldn’t remain linked to Serbia (this will upset a lot of people 🙂), then why would the Albanians want to? Ultimately, huge mistakes were made all round. But on the principle issue, the Serbs have a point. Why is it that Ukraine can defend its own territorial integrity - as could Croatia, Azerbaijan, Sri Lanka, etc. against separatists - but they couldn’t?
@@JamesKerLindsay Why don’t you tell Z-erbs , how Z-erbia illegally annexed Kosovo in 1913 straight after Albania had come out of a 440 years occupation from the ottomans ?? And all of this against Z-erbian constitution at the time which required a meeting to be held before Z-erbias borders could expand?? Propaganda professor keep lying at the Serbs, they can’t even tell anymore the difference between the lies and the truths. But anyway when Z-erbia gained independence from the ottomans, Albania was still under occupation but they waited until Albania came out of occupation so they would annexed it . Propaganda professor tell them the truth
@@JamesKerLindsay thank you so much for your reply - this is amazing, really it is! It shows your passion, knowledge and commitment. And it is very informative, shining a light on things I hadn't fully appreciated.
@@JamesKerLindsayAnd here we come to the point........I am just normal Serbian which has his reasons to be angry on western world,only thing is..... Ukraine was atacked under excuse of Kosovo and Metohija Case. West gave the Russians that excuse served on silver Plate. So that makes me wonder as a Serb......am i just excuse? Is my misery,regarding Kosovo and Metohija, just excuse? Hell i don't want that, and i wont allow it. Friendship,Brotherhood needs to work both way. Both sides will have to explain some Things when this bloody war is over. And one thing is for sure......those "relationships" will never be Same again. WE are no one EXCUSE.
@@JamesKerLindsayYou really don't know what are you talking. Albanians have their own country Albania. They were not the inhabitants of Kosovo and Metohija before 17th century (back then they were minority), they haven't liberate Kosovo and Metohija from Ottomans Serbs did that. They massively came during the ww2 and the Enver Hoxha rule in Albania and Serbs HELPED THEM. We let them stay, eventhough they were killing Serbs and being in Nazi SS troups, check Bali Kombetar. So it was not their land so Serbs would have to give them anything! But on the other side you have Serbs in today's Croatia who were living there from allways, when it was not Croatia and there were no Croats living there. Those Serbs were always fighting for liberation of Dalmatia, Slavonia, Lika... They were DEFFENDING those territories from Turks, for centuries. SERBS MADE so called Croatia, that is why they were the CONSTITUTIV nation in croatian constitution. Because they've liberted "Croatia", because they have been genocided in nazi Croatia in ww2. That was Serbian land that Croats TOOK by killing Serbs and came in their homes. Albanians also expelled Serbs from their homes and took the land. You don't recognize Republika Srpska eventhough that land has been always Serbian (of Serb people). You want to give Serb's land in bosnia to the muslims. Serbs didn't came from somewhere else to Bosnia and today's Croatia. They were always there. Those territories are of Serb people (IliroSerben). Emperor Dušan liberated Serbian lands from Romean empire. Look at the ethnical maps. He liberated only where Serbs were majority. Srblji-Tribali.
The moment when London decided to remove Serbian royal family and implement it's subjects (the usual), is the moment where Serbia became just a name. All things from the moment I mentioned to this day are just scenarios and nothing more. People who are still trying to save what can be saved know what is going on, at this point, I don't think we will exist in 15-20 years.
A very balanced and welcome video. Serbia's status as a Russian "ally" is really overplayed. Call me old-fashioned, but I think alliances (at least in peacetime) require actual signed agreements. There is no such agreement between Serbia and Russia (in fact, on that basis, Serbia has exactly zero allies). There are in my mind two striking paradoxes of the Russian-Serbian friendship (and at past times, actual alliance, as in WW1), one historical and one modern. The historical one is that up until 1918, Serbia and Russia were politically diametrically opposing states and societies in terms of their characteristics and ideologies: Serbia since 1804 is a thoroughly modern revolutionary, anti-imperial state (fighting against 2 empires, building a modern state from scratch, being the 2nd country in Europe to fully abolish feudalism, having no nobility or aristocracy, etc.) while the Russian Empire until 1918 was a thoroughly reactionary conservative state. So while Serbs in the 19th and early 20th century appreciated Russia for the religious and supraethnic ties and similarities and for their help in fighting the Ottomans, and later, the Hapsburgs, they were a lot more receptive to Western liberal political ideology and conceptions of the state and of society. The modern paradox is, as you mention, that very few Serbs today speak Russian and are exposed at all to, let alone immersed in, contemporary Russian culture. The percentage of actual russophiles, if we say that these are people who regularly consume modern Russian culture in the Russian language, is minuscule in Serbia. Pro-Russian sentiments, which are widespread, are actually mostly driven by anti-Westernism (due to the 90s and the Kosovo issue) and the vast majority of pro-Russian people in Serbia have a very superficial knowledge of Russia and Russians. Serbs know the Russians as most of the world knows them - by reading classical Russian literature. However, this is nothing "special". The pro-Russian Serbs are in favour of a quite superficial image of Russia they have constructed in their mind, onto which they project their desires, rather in favour of Russia itself as it actually exists. Of course, one can say a similar thing about pro-Western or pro-EU Serbs, but there the gap between projection and reality is not nearly as wide, because on the whole Serbs are far far more exposed to and immersed in Western culture than they are to Russian culture. Out of a 100 Serbs who have travelled abroad, 99 have been to some EU country, while maybe 10 have been to Russia. For those who have worked abroad, outside of perhaps the construction industry, it's even more skewed than that.
Thanks so much. As someone who has spent a lot of time in Serbia and knows the country well, I completely agree. Most Serbs have no idea about Russia. Nationalists talk about it as some great brother, but most of the time it is based on insecurity. They want to feel they have a big ally. It is a really interesting to discuss this with Serbs in more detail. I’ve often found that in private many are deeply sceptical about Moscow. They know it isn’t a trustworthy partner, but they also feel so angry at the West they’ll latch on to it. This is part of the problem the West has. While I have often been deeply critical of Milošević’s policies that took Serbia into a dark place, the West has never really got behind the 1990s when thinking about Serbia. This has also done a lot of damage. But thanks once m again for such an interesting comment. I really appreciated it.
Well, judging by the comments James, you have stirred up a hornet's nest. That is not necessarily a bad thing. The Balkans have always been a complex and unstable part of the world. I for one am glad you covered this. I have followed the situation over many years, and even visited Yugoslavia once (while fleeing Greece in 1974). It is always good to get more detail about the history, as well as the current context.
@@louisgiokas2206 Thank you Louis. Yes, it was always going to stir up controversy. Funnily enough, the people most likely to hate my conclusions are on completely the opposite sides: Western observers who want to see Moscow’s hand in everything Serbia does and Serb nationalists who seem to genuinely believe that Russia is Serbia’s best friend, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
Excellent video 💯... Very accurate ... And as a Serb (Serbian mother, Hungarian father) I can say that you seem to have an excellent understanding of the politics in Serbia and also Serbia's relationships with Russia and Europe as a whole ... I appreciate your content 💯...
Do you believe the shift towards Russia in Serbia is a Serbia specific phenomenon or is it in fact related to the rise of the far right in all of Europe with most of these far right parties either supporting Rusia or having clear ties to Rusia and being sponsored by Rusia?
Thanks. Great point. It is really interesting to see how much of the far right is gravitating towards Russia. I think the same is happening in Russia, where this has stronger foundations. But I do also think that wider society is also becoming pro-Russian, for the reasons I outlined.
Greetings from Serbia, as someone who never supported Vucic, nor destructive politicians from the past read Milosevic (nationalist from all sides are to blame for wars), I would like to add few points. Regarding Ukraine, Serbia historicaly had good relations with both Russia and Ukraine. As christians and slavic nations there are many cultural similarities among slavic christian countries and mostly relations among all slavic people are good. Similar to relations with say Germany and Austria. There is another reason why Serbia support Ukraine teritorial integrity and that is because they find the separation of its Kosovo province against the international law, so they can not support the method they are fighting against. Since 2000 Serbia is trying to become EU member, and failure to do so I find in both internal matters of Serbia as well as in lack of will to do so by the EU. However European union has become weaker in last 5 years so I have serious doubt they are willing to admit any new member in the next 20 years (apart from maybe Ukraine, but I doubt that also). People from candidate countries can feel that, and more and more people are becoming eurosceptics, so I personaly have trouble explaining to others why Serbia should join the EU. The problem is not in Serbian ties with Russia, but rather in EU failure to accept Serbia and other candidate countries, willingly or not, I am not certain...
Has Serbia always had good relations with Ukraine? Ukraine has existed since 1991... What kind of relations did Serbia have with Ukraine? For Yugoslavia, Ukraine was Russia; for Serbia,Ukraina did not exist in principle!
That is incorrect. For example in Yugoslavian school I have learned that both Russia, Ukraine and other republics are part of USSR. Saying that Ukraine started to exist in 1991 is like saying UK started existing after brexit. Serbia has good relations with Ukraine.
@@user-irj1nxa3cof2z We don't actually celebrate outcome of the Kosobo battle in 1389 (btw modern Turkish historians claim it's THEM losing as they retreated afterwards). Instead we're celebrating the fact that Serbian mentality and character hasn't changed since then. Serbian duke Lazar knew he can't win, he knew he and his army are all gonna die, he HAD a chance to accept cooperation with Ottoman empire (which didn't care about Orthodox Serbia, they were after Catholics to avenge the Crusades) YET Lazar decided to fight for sake of fighting and dignity. And he died doing so. Same thing happened when Hitler offered us to join Axis in 1941. Regardless our king accepting, people wanted to fight a losing battle despite knowing it's an impossible war to win in 1941 so king was overthrown in a coup and Hitler invaded us. Similar thing happened in 1999 when we said to NATO "We don't care who you are and how much stronger you are. Do what you have, we'll keep doing what we want". So to sum it up: we're celebrating continuity of Serbian mentality and character, not the outcome of the battle in 1389 :)
@@nekotamo You forgot to mention Maria Olivera Lazarević the youngest daughter of Lazar of Serbia and Sultan Bayezid 1 whom she married as a pledge of peace between the Lazarević and Ottoman dynasties ;)
@@user-irj1nxa3cof2z True. Her brother, Stefan Lazarevic (Lazar's son and heir of Serbia) asked her to marry Bayezid 1 because right after Kosovo battle, Hungarians attacked us from the north trying to conquer. Stefan couldn't fight on 2 sides while also realizing there's no use from rest of Europe and as he was a vise politician he correctly realized it makes no sense making alliance with Hungary when in few years Ottomans will come back and conquer us both so he decided to stand on the Ottoman side offering his sister as a bride. In turn, Hungarians stopped attacking right away and also gifted us Belgrade to fix the relations. Olivera, even thou being a Christian wife of a Muslim ruler, was respected and never even forced to convert to Islam yet she helped Serbia a lot as she had influence on Bayazid who became much better with us than with other Christians. Desperate times ask for desperate measures but in 1391 it worked!
This is the whole problem in Serbia. People seem to think that the EU is some body that wants to suck them in for some bad purpose. It isn’t. The EU is about bringing all Europeans together, helping their economies grow, developing cooperation, making it possible to live, work and travel across Europe more easily. Serbia is a European country. It is only natural that the EU members should want to it join the other 27 countries that are already members. But no one is forcing Serbia to join.
@@milostomic8539 hard to say for sure, most of Russia's landmass is in Asia but most of the population lives in Europe, cultarally they are closer to other Easter European countries but politically they are much more integrated with Central Asia also one must consider that Russian society is at large hostilely toward Poland,the Baltic states and to a lesser exent Finlad and all those countries are EU members
A few small niggles but the only three things of consequence worth pointing out: 1. Serbia/Yugoslavia is/was a major arms producer and exporter. Even in the screen grab from the Times it mentioned these weapons arrived via third parties. I do not think there has been a single conflict since WW2 where Zastava has not (indirectly) supplied both sides, regardless if said conflict has represented any particular matter of national interest for Serbia or Yugoslavia. 2. The UN votes are not a condmenation of Russia, but simply reinforcing the general principle of sovereignty that underpin Serbia's derecognition campaign of Kosovo. 3. Any cooperation with NATO is essentially an attempt to reinforce Res. 1244, which recognises KFOR as the guarantor of Security in Kosovo, by allowing Serbian movements along the border/administrative line without damaging relations with KFOR (particularly useful for Vucic the past few years). Additionally, the continued presence of NATO during this period essentially makes it politically impossible and unnecessary for a Kosovo defence force. These issues are understood by both Russia and Serbia to carry no value judgements on the war or itself or the alliance between the two countires generally. They cannot specifically be taken to mean alienation from Russia (or China) although it is true Serbia has historically sought to balance east and west and continues to do so. However when push comes to shove Serbia will align with Russia. It important to remember the Non Aligned Movement and estrangement from the Soviet Union was championed by a non Serb (Tito) while the USSR was controlled by a non Russian (Stalin). Serbia also recognizes that any relationship with the West is fundamentally transactional, whereas it shares key national interests with Russia and China.
This is another topic I have wanted to explore for a while. Having worked on the Balkans for many years and having spent a lot of time in Serbia, I have always been fascinated by the relationship between Russia and Serbia. It is much more interesting and complex than most outsiders think it is. But I do get the sense that the Ukraine War has changed something. So, is Serbia moving closer to Moscow? And is there a split between the public and the government, as seems to be the case. Or is the Government just leading the EU on and is much more pro-Russian than it presents itself. As always, I’m looking forward to your thoughts and comments. (And please keep it civil. Even if you disagree, we can still discuss it politely.) I’d be particularly keen to hear from any Serbs. What do you think? Have things changed in Serbia, and how?
Your history is bit wrong in some places such as Gavrilo Princip, Tzar Stefan Dusan, but worst is Myth of Serb-dominated Yugoslavia whose leader was Croat Tito.
Is this a Russian Ukrainian coverage channel?
🤔
@@FlamingBasketballClub no, just look at the videos he's posted, you could have found this out with two simple clicks of the mouse.
Thanks Prof. very interesting. As the cliche goes, this one is out of my pay grade. I have no idea what to make of the situation.
Yes, I thought to mention that Tito was a Croat! But, in fact, it just wasn’t that important. The whole point was that Yugoslavia was Non-Aligned under his rule. The irony is that this ethos is much more deeply rooted now in Serbia than in any of the other parts of former Yugoslavia - and certainly a lot more than in Croatia.
If you dive to the bottom of an ocean and see two fishes fight, take a closer look around and you will see an Englishman. - Mahatma Gandy
@@proetcontra5599 true!
The sun rises in east. And sets in west.
Catolicism is the core of imperialism and orthodoxy is a door to haeven and dear Lord. Chose yourself.
They can be friends with whoever they want.
No, you can't!
Any state can. But that entails profound choices. The Serbian government, rightly in my view, sees European integration as the best hope for the country’s future development. I would like Serbia to be part of that. But it is free to choose its direction. And as I said, I do get the sense that many ordinary people see that as heading away from Europe, sadly. That was the whole point of the video.
@@JamesKerLindsay I'm wondering if you'd give up on your national interests and join those who unreservedly support separatism on your territory.
@@JamesKerLindsay But serbs dont even like the EU because they would need to change their laws about anything
@@stefantrajkovic7157 Do I believe that Scotland should have a right to determine its own future. Yes. And Wales? yes. And that Ireland should be united if the people want it? Yes. This is the whole problem. Serbia should just have accepted that Kosovo effectively amounted to a seventh republic and let it go. (By the way, before anyone jumps in to correct this, I know it wasn’t a republic. I’ve written a whole book on the status process. But it was republic in all but name.) So, while I accept that the secession was not done legally, I think that Serbia would be best served by reaching a settlement to let Kosovo go. In fact, I have long argued for partition, allowing the Serb areas in the north to remain part of Serbia as a foundation for such an agreement.
🇷🇺♥️🇷🇸♥️🇷🇺♥️🇷🇸♥️🇷🇺♥️🇷🇸
Forever, and more than friends,
We are brothers!!!!
срби да али вучић није он је ухода
Zato su naoruzali Kurvate 1992-95…
So stop taking our EU money.
@@jasmins203 🤡🤡🤡
Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales cannot be compared to Kosovo and Metohija. Albanians migrated to Kosovo and Metohia. Until the Berlin Congress, the Serbs succeeded under enormous pressure to survive in Kosovo and Metohia and have a majority in Kosovo and Metohia.
The real comparison is that migrants like Pakistanis, Hindus and others form their own states on the territory of England. Do you support that?
@@sarambatos Albanians did not migrate to Kosovo, Serbians did. There are actually written proofs about this.
@@jasmins203 What written evidence?
@@sarambatos Kong Peter I and Kong Alexander giving the Albanian land to his soldiers from Serbia, everything on paper.
Dude start is wrong, Serbia didn't lose against Otoman empire, we won but they came back 30 years later, while we could not gather the same army and defend .
Jejejejejejej hahahahahah
70 years actually.
Fortress of Smederevo fell in 1459.
@@VladoPiljak they came 70 years after battle in Kosovo polje.
@@milostomic8539 u oktobru..17. Ako se nevaram
@@VladoPiljak you have no evidence what was the outcome of Kosovo battle and even if you did it is not your business. There are absolutely no legal or any other continuity whatsoever between Medieval Serbia which perished without a trace in XV Century and modern Serbia which was recognized as the state in 1878. Any country can now claim Medieval Serbia heritage because there are no noble families in modern Serbia who trace their origins to that date. Modern Serbia had to invent the royal dynasties in XIX Century to claim some continuity and marry their male members with the descendants of the princesses who were married from. Medieval Serbian court into European houses that survived to the modern times and were writing their origins all the time. Pathetic. Even more pathetic was trying to invent some „folk“ poems and songs that cover the lost history and forcing the people to accept those poems as the accurate covering of actual historic events.
Serbia tries to be friendly with every country. Greece and Russia are about the only countries that have not attacked Serbia and so it should not be a surprise that ordinary Serbs have a softer spot for those two European countries than they have for others. It would be nice if the neocons left Serbia alone and instead visited to enjoy its food, hospitality and history of giving the world a bunch of remarkable individuals who have benefited the whole world in science, the arts, as well as sport.
@@jelk1188 and Romania as well.
@@janosvasasz7018 Yes, Romania is awesome. Those of us, Serbs, that know of it's existence, love it (with all it's imperfections). It's a quiet border though, hard to notice the country even.
@@jelk1188 serbia is in bad relations with all their neighbours
@janosvasasz7018 Truth, Romanians were always a true friends.
I don't recall Britain ever having been at war with Serbia. Feel free to correct me.
Ok so. There are several layers of relationship between the two countries. The primary one is political and thats Kosovo (JKL is correct here). Serbia needs Russia because legally speaking (despite what Americans would like to claim) the Kosovo issue is still in the UN and UN resolution 1244 is still active and binding (and it states that Kosovo is a part of Serbia). Kosovo will not join the UN until this resolution is abolished. And thus Russia has the ability to both veto any American/British attempt to strong arm / force Kosovo into UN (like they do in many other international bodies) but also to prevent the Americans and British from abolishing the resolution 1244 which they would love to do.
Second to all of that, is the economic angle. Unlike what you claimed, nobody here thinks that Russian investment is nonprofitable or harmful, its quite the opposite. Its just not comparable to the Western investment, both in quality and quantity. Serbia had a political deal with Russia (just like Ukraine btw) where it could export industrial goods produced in Serbia onto Russian market without paying tariffs. This has led to many Western (European) companies investing in production capacity in Serbia (including heavy industry, like car production) in order to avoid paying export taxes for the Russian market - thus being more competitive and more profitable not only in Russia but in the entire Russian economic zone (a market of about 200 million people). And in exchange for that, Serbia had sold its national oil and gas distrubution, probably below market value, to the Russians. For which we get (or used to get) gas cheaper than market value. Gas which is required for (heavy) industry. In order to cut their operating costs. And maximize profits. Leading to MORE West (European) investments. For profits.
So now that we know the context of things here, the West isnt investing in Serbia because they love us. They do it (and used to do it before) because its profitable. Russia isnt investing in industry here because it has no interest to do so. Serbia is a small country that is not a member of the EU zone and it doesnt have any special political access to the EU economic zone either.
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Completely unrelated to all of this we have 2 more issues:
Serbia-Russia relations in the UN. Serbia's position in the UN is that its illegal to unilaterally change the borders of country against the will of said country. So invading Serbia and setting up Kosovo as a puppet vassal state which then unilaterally declares independence is very much against the UN charter. Well, invading Ukraine, which is a sovereign country, and annexing its regions, against the will of Ukraine, is basically the same exact thing (minus the step of setting up the puppet vassal state) as what has happened in Kosovo. So Serbia cannot clap in the UN and say "well done Russia". Russians know this. And they are not stupid. They know Serbia must vote on resolutions that condemn invasion and call for ceasefire. They dont care. Half of the global south countries did the same.
Serbia-Russia relations vis a vis EU. Serbia is a candidate for the EU membership as we all know. But also as we all know Serbia will never become a member, sort of like Turkey. Because, as we all know, the West will blackmail Serbia over membership with recognition of Kosovo, which Serbia will never accept. And all parties know this. Serbia is however STILL a candidate because the candidate status gives you access to various cheap credits from the EU and various investment project funds. For example EU will pay for construction of roads that fit in EU development plans because even if Serbia is not a member, its still located in a central position and EU having efficient road transit (and river transit in the future) through Serbia is economically beneficial to the EU. So we play this game where EU demands we follow EU foreign policy as a candidate state and we play dumb and say "well were not a member state we dont have to follow your foreign policy, but here, we will vote for this UN resolution that calls for respecting Ukraine's internationally recognized borders". EU gets its virtue signalling moment. We get our virtue signalling moment. Money keeps flowing. Everyones happy.
Serbia-Russia relations in context of arms sales to Ukraine. This is where your video has the most inaccuracies and downright purpuseful deceptions IMO. JKL you just cant help it you globalist you. Anyway. Things are very simple. Serbia has a big arms industry. Its a significant part of our GDP. With 10s of thousands of jobs and whatnot. We sell arms and ammo. But we dont sell it to Ukraine. Which Russians know. What happens is the arms and ammo we export to third countries - for example UAE or Bahrein - end up in Ukraine. So military goods that we have sold (in some cases years ago) to third countries are now being bought by Americans (and others) for higher price and then re-exported to Ukraine. There is nothing we can do about that. Nor is there anything we can do to stop it in the future. Unless we completely shut down our arms industies and not export any weapons and ammo at all. Which would be suicidal. Which is why Russians are not retarded to demand this from us. And here we go. Was that context so hard to explain JKL? Really?
Everything perfectly explained. I mean there is a special hypocrisy when western politicians are oh so concerned with the well-being of countries that cooperate with Russia and China, as if the West is just a benevolent and humanitarian group of nations which has never exploited anyone.
Kosovo's case went to international court of justice and it stated that it did not violate any international law... Please let's not forget that Kosovo's case is different... Kosovo is gone and Serbia is using Kosovo as an excuse to keep relations good with Putin... Vucic knows Kosovo is gone.
@@ea1347 Wrong. The question that was asked was whether unilateral secessesion was against the international law. The court chose to ignore the question that was asked and instead answered whether the act of declaration (the paper on which it was written) was in violation of the international law, which i can tell you too, its clearly not. So basically in a typical Western manner they chose to creatively re-interpret that which they didnt like.
@@ea1347 Otherwise, Crimea and Donbass would have declared independence from Ukraine, the West would have immediately recognize them (just like Kosovo) and there would be no war in Ukraine 2014-2022. Right?
@joeblack5393 that was great, it is rare to see such a good political comment on youtube 👍
Historically Serbias best friend is Romania, we fought longer time on the same side than Russia helped them and when we were in opposite sides we just ignored each other (ww2, Yugoslav civil war).
Salutări din România!
But I notice that nowadays, because of Marinika Tepić (née Ciobanu), even the Romanians rank among Serbia's long-time enemies.
@@BaumerPaulGefreiterthis love story have his ups and downs!😂
🇷🇴🤝🇷🇸
@@BaumerPaulGefreiterMarinika is Alain Delon compared to your beloved VuchIer
@@Richest_Person_in_the_World
I’ll have to take your word for it, because I cannot recall having heard of them.
A Special Relationship? Only when Serbia's interest is other countries' concern it appears to be a subject to discuss about and make videos on UA-cam, with questionable motives. Serbia and later its baby - Yugoslavia played if not mayor then significant role in both World Wars. It somehow shows how Serbia has the most interesting disproportion between overall positive long term outcome to its periodical belittlement by Great Powers. Maybe Serbia plays her cards optimally, given the geographical, political and economic position. Just because currently is desirable to "cancel" Russia, it does not mean Serbia is on the "wrong side of history". No sir! Tomorrow, the West will shake hands with Russia and will do business as before.
I’m not sure you’re familiar with the concept of a UA-cam channel that looks at international relations. I tend to look at, you guessed it, international relations. Seriously, I don’t get this idea that some people have that just because their country is covered there is some sort of conspiracy. Last week I did Gibraltar, the week before I did Cyprus, the week before that Mongolia. I look at interesting situations and try to frame them in a braided context looking at their history. That’s all. No great conspiracy. As it happens, though, in this case, this is a subject that I have long followed. I know Serbia well and have spent a lot of time there. (My background is as a professor of SE European politics and international relations.)
@@JamesKerLindsay Your analysis in the video starts from the rather interesting premises so the whole structure of conclusions is questionable. With my comment I've tried to help you realize how there could be another angle. When you express your opinion on Serbia that is perfectly fine and, I guess, with good intention.
6:45 you said capitulated. Capitulation is when the whole country surrenders and gives away power and weapons. Serbia withdrew from its southern province Kosovo to central Serbia while keeping the power and army in central Serbia. Mostly because of attacks on civil infrastructure by NATO. The economy was brought back to Stone Ages, all major bridges blown up, factories, power systems were devastated, and it affected civilians. Hunger, sanctions, and lack of basic necessities afttected civilians as well. Only 2% of armed forces have been destroyed. That is no near capitulation. Russia did all of this to Ukraine, destroyed civilian infrastructure, destroyed bridges, and the power systems. Russia is blamed in front of the international community. To be more precise, the West is acusing Russia of war crimes in Ukraine. My question is, why wasn't NATO been accused for doing the same? What happened with around 1k civilians that NATO killed when it bombed downtowns areas and populated areas occupied by civilians? Also, horrific crimes were committed by Serbian paramilitary, in smaller numbers by army and police. Mostly paramilitary forces. Serbia did the job and sent many of its leaders to Hauge. What happened with those who committed crimes against us? The majority are untouchable.
@@matija8185 Sadly, as the old saying goes: might is right, that's why "justice" is never served upon the west
None of it wouldn't have happened if Milosevic didn't cancel the autonomy of SAP Kosovo in 1987, which was against the constitution, and if it wasn't for the Serbian meetings of "truth" that claimed large parts of other federal republics being Serbia. It was Serbian nationalism that caused all other nationalisms in former Yugoslavia, and today, we have what we have. All of it was provoked by third party interest from outside of Balkans. But it was the Serbs who drank from that cup years before others.
I hope we don't have another war in the balkans.
Little correction 11:30 , in 1346 Serbia was proclaimed as an Empire and Stefan Dusan as Emperor of Serbs and Romans . Romans because the Byzantine Empire was in the mind of its people and Historicy Roman. And since Serbia ruled majority of former Byzantin/Roman European lands. It's official and in history books world wide.
Thanks. I’m sorry for not referring to Serbia as an Empire. 😀
@@JamesKerLindsaySerbian Tsardom would be a more correct label, even though short lived.
@@JamesKerLindsay the so called "serbian empire" lasted 20 years and just occupied the remaining defenceless territories of byzantine so it was a self proclaimed "empire" trying to fill the power vacuum after the fall of byzantine but obviously and historical correct is that the ottoman empire was the legal successor of byzantine as they were the ones who defeated them and also took later the remaining parts which serbia tried to take for itself ASAP so there was no serbian empire
If you wana this its the Emperor of Serbs Greeks and Romans... :P
@@ajdoshka The coronation was legit for the emperor titel. it was not self proclaimed lol salty albanian like pottery
I’m under the assumption that Serbia is always going to be taken for granted by the EU/West so it will always look for meaningful relationships with China and Russia, who will likewise pull them away from the West. In turn, it creates a trifecta with the EU reconsidering its stances to prevent Serbia from completely ignoring or divorcing themselves from the EU.
People say that the EU is its greatest and most realistic long term partner but so far it looks like it’s broadly held in contempt and the EU only engages with Serbia to prevent complete Russian/Chinese influence.
I also think there’s unrealistic expectations of Serbia from the West for it to liberalize/democratize if we include progress done thus far. As of current, Vucic’s government is more pragmatic than Hungary; which is a EU member. And given this is the Balkans, where every ruling party in the government dabbles in monopolizing their party’s power one way or another- I would say it isn’t much different from Croatia, Greece, etc. This is a trend that has to be tackled over the course of decades and only holding Serbia accountable to this when there’s at least five other perpetrators is disingenuous, but it’s probably because Serbia isn’t in the EU and you can’t audit member nations once they’re in.
If the west was willing to engage with Serbia on equal standing, then Serbia would probably be more cooperative. It’s been 16 years since 2008, and now the average Serb is much more skeptical about EU ascension, or achieving it without any major EU concessions.
I think the current status quo with the trifecta will remain until the EU changes its approach. To me it’s clear Serbia has no other alternative in the long term and has to join the EU; but that’s not going to happen if they give up an arm and leg for nothing in return.
Well said. But I personally don’t see Serbia joining the EU ever. We really don’t need the EU, it’s the EU who are always on our doorstep not the other way around. Serbian people have already seen the double standards EU holds and non democratic thinking it always plays. Personally i think a referendum should take place and see what’s what in regard to Serbia joining EU. More and more Serbs who were interested in joining EU are less interested now. I mean we have a better chance of joining BRICS than EU.
ATHLÈTES DU MONDE ENTIER RESTER CHEZ VOUS ILS AURAS PAS DE JEUX OLYMPIQUES ET PARA OLYMPIQUES DEUIL MONDIALE UNIVERSEL POUR LE PEUPLE PALESTINIENS
@@stevem4660Referendums with Vucic in power are bad idea.
Just like elections.
He would rig them.People would vote against EU and in favor of BRICS.
He would say people voted in favor of EU and against BRICS.
So, no thanks as long he's in power.
Literally, a perfect analysis. Svaka čast.
@@stevem4660Why? Serbs stand to benefit from the free trade and freedom of movement of the EU. It could also mean much more investment from the richer European countries. Joining the EU means Serbia could be richer and more powerful in the global arena. The Brits are realizing that right now.
1244 UN resolution ?
Yes. It was mentioned.
NATO's history is a criminal record
Slavic brothers!one people! Russia🤝Serbia!!!
Ukrainians are also Slavic brothers. Nevertheless, Kremlin attacked them. Until the fall of Putins corrupt regime Russia has no Slavic brothers.
Serbians remember what NATO did to them twice in 1990s. If Serbia was close to West that time, this would not happened.
@@gm63534 I wonder what the Serbs were doing in Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo and their minority Muslim population ( in Serbia& Montenegro) that would trigger NATO to do such a thing? 🤷
I love all your videos. I particularly like the format starting with a brief introduction of the history . As a South African I can understand public opinion in Serbia . The so-called West has to try and understand that it’s enemies are not necessarily ours . We would like to do what is best for us and that is having good relationships with all countries . We also consider justification for certain actions by the West not to be consistent and also hypocritical.
Pleaaase, couldn't you just implement a Foreign Minister who is neither rasicst nor antisemitic?
ATHLÈTES DU MONDE ENTIER RESTER CHEZ VOUS IL AURAS PAS DE JEUX OLYMPIQUES ET PARA OLYMPIQUES DEUIL MONDIALE UNIVERSEL POUR LE PEUPLE PALESTINIENS
Why every self-proclaimed "neutral entity" always went "What are you talking about we love every countries, but the west is bad hypocrite ^%$%^#&*^$%&#!"? My country government (Thailand) is also say something similar, but their action, for "unknown reason", always extremely favourable to democracy's nemesis like Russia and China. It's something most people here are (and should) despise our government so much.
If South African government has the same stance on Ukraine and Taiwan issues like what they are doing for Palestinian, I would believe in their neutrality, but they don't.
@@Truth-Istina In other words democracy doesn't exist.
Hello from serbia
I find a lot of outside reporters try to avoid admitting that some countries don't like that Russia has invaded Ukraine, but still depend on Russia financially.
@@electricVGC hello sir. It appears you worded your sentiment in a weird way. Some countries don't like that USA has pushed Ukraine to sacrifice itself for benefit of a handful of elites. It is sad watching fellow slavics warring with eachother for purely selfish western interests* fixed it.
These countries also don’t like that NATO and Ukraine started the war provoking the Russian invasion.
acting is a art
I guess you just couldn't bring yourself to say that the defensive alliance's attack on Serbia was illegal. Most Serbs thought that the US/EU and others were honest and that they would not break the law.
You also failed to mention that Serbia didn't sell arms to Ukraine directly according to Vucic. It sold them to other countries (I think Spain was mentioned) who signed the end user certificates as required. If they passed the ammunition to Ukraine it was illegal. But hey who cares about the law in the collective West. Lots of Russian/Soviet weapons sold to their former allies ended up in Ukraine. So the Russians also supplied Ukraine with arms in the same sense as Serbia.
Wow, where did you learn the pronunciation of names and cities? Almost perfect all of them, congratulations.
He's already told that in the text.
ATHLÈTES DU MONDE ENTIER RESTER CHEZ VOUS IL AURAS PAS DE JEUX OLYMPIQUES ET PARA OLYMPIQUES DEUIL MONDIALE UNIVERSEL POUR LE PEUPLE PALESTINIENS
Thank you so much. I’ve still got a heavy British accent (far more jarring when I speak Greek, apparently), but I hope I do get them write. I’ve spent a lot of time in Serbia and know the country well. I govorim malo srpski. 🙂
Nikako zajedno sa ruskim fasistima.
Ну так-то независимая Румыния и Сербия существуют благодаря России)
I honestly think that to an extent, Serbia is only pragmatic with its relations to Russia because it's outside the EU; Hungary is in and can't really be kicked out, so it can be as pro-Putin as it wants with relatively little consequence. The Serbian government hasn't done itself any favours, especially recently, but I do think EU accession being stalled has in part driven them more towards Russia than the West. I do wonder if Serbs even want to join the EU anymore. I think there was polling recently that showed only 40% of Serbs supported joining the EU.
I understand why Serbs think the West is hypocritical for bombing them during the Kosovo war while today also supporting Ukraine, but I also think it's a bit more complicated than them having double standards, i.e., lots of war crimes on both sides of the conflict in Kosovo. Maybe it's too subjective, but you could probably do an entire video on whether NATO was justified or not in its intervention in Kosovo.
Hello you are mostly right as the root of the problem lies in the Yugoslav wars of the 90's. Not Kosovo per se but it played a huge role in the Serbian public opinion.
Most of all the Hyperinflation due to 1992- international sanctions (imposed by the western countries) and destruction of the economy. Imagine that the world you live has prices doubling every 15 hours for all goods and necesities, you are out of the international market, borders are closed, there are subsidies bread for coupons which makes feeding your family almost imposible. Gas is being stiffened from ships passing on the Danube and sold in water bottles for foreign currency (Deutch mark).Everything is falling apart, there is war in the west, there are street riots in major cities. Then Russia comes in as the only partner in all of the chaos and start sending ships with goods such as food, medicine and electrical appliances.
The bombing of 1999 only cemented the belief of average Serbian joe that EU and the west hate the people of Serbia. As someone who believed in the post Kosovo war propaganda and pro Russia propaganda I would explain it in this way. The world view was that Yugoslavia (as the united land of south slavs) failed in the Pan slavic idea of slavic unification. Everything was left to our Eastern brethren (East slavs) to stop the west and that there will be a great clash some time in the future (these were the beliefs of early 2000's). However everything changed in my case in 2014 when war in Donbas started and all illusions of that idea were smashed and the Ukraine war truly started. "Our eastern brethren" feuded with themselves instead of being united against the west. Nowadays I can speak from my own experience in this regard...as we had all those horrors of the 90's our hearts, prayers and thoughts are with the people of Ukraine who are enduring the horrors we were subjected to and did also helped us in the time of need wretched 90's, our hearts and prayers are with them. Pragmatically, geopolitically and being under russian influence for so long, we are routing for Russia to win as the conflict is seen as the West (NATO) against Russia, as most of ppl think think that it will be vengeance for nato intervention of 99 and ealy decades of 2000's of EU humiliation.
Soo mostly the pro russian stance is due to love hate relationship with EU. But at the same time average believer does not speak Russian and has no real idea of Russian mentality, Russia is seen trough the prism of TV screen.
In the end are we really pro-Russian by heart or are made due to 90's apocalypse time will tell...
@@moonman62 Serbia never planned or wanted to join the EU. It's just a political narrative.
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So called west is nothing but bunch of hypocrites!
@@moonman62 i see no reason for us to join EU. One reason is behavior of EU towards Serbia. But second, most important is the way EU treats it's own - when EU starts putting European interests in the first place, then we can consider joining.
I saw a few minor mistakes when talking about the history in ww2 area but thats not that important, the important part that i noticed that you didnt show is when you pulled up the poll in the video, yes 70% percent would rather more likely live in EU than in Russia but there is another part of the poll that asked "would you want to live in EU/Be part of European Union if you had to recognise "Kosovo" as a sovereign state" and the result was around 10-13% for joining, also the polls showed that a big number of people wouldnt want to join NATO (as stated, they bombed us), and that comes hand in hand with joining European Union. Even though people living in Serbia know they will never be let in the European Union, because the candidate process started in 2009 and every year the European Union just adds more and more requests even tho we fullfil most of them in time (per say).
ATHLÈTES DU MONDE ENTIER RESTER CHEZ VOUS IL AURAS PAS DE JEUX OLYMPIQUES ET PARA OLYMPIQUES DEUIL MONDIALE UNIVERSEL POUR LE PEUPLE PALESTINIENS
no bro. 80% dont want eu! dont lie!
@@SuperDjavol Maybe in your immediate circle. Where I'm at, it's more like 95%. So I could say the same: "No way it's only 80%!"
Thanks. We have to be a little careful. Joining NATO is not a condition of EU membership. Four EU members aren’t NATO members: Ireland, Malta, Cyprus and Austria. (And Sweden and Ginlsnd joined when they weren’t NATo members.) Serbia can join the EU without joining NATO. That said, I personally think it should join. The argument that NATO bombed Serbia a quarter of a century ago - when it wad under Milošević - means it should never join, just doesn’t make sense. Europe is about reconciliation and cooperation. NATO is central to European security, Serbia should want to be a part of that. But that’s another debate for another day,
@@JamesKerLindsay Nato nikad😈
Serbia is working for its own interests and that means good relations with all countries.
I appreciate the focus on Serbia and value the discussion, especially given my personal connection as a Serb. From my perspective, the current strong Russo-Serbian ties stem largely from the shortcomings of Western policies towards the Serbian question. The West, under U.S. leadership, has offered solutions that many Serbs view as inadequate and disrespectful. This diplomatic failure has allowed Russia, China, and other players to exploit the situation in this new multipolar world, which, in turn, aligns with Serbian interests given the perceived betrayal by Western governments. The West’s actions, ranging from the destruction of Yugoslavia, support for separatist groups, and direct military aggression, to continually breaking promises and disparaging an entire ethnic group have created a deep sense of animosity and distrust in the last 35 years. These actions have led to a backlash, as we have not forgotten our history and value our honor, which cannot be bought with money. A shift in Western policies towards the Serbs might change the current situation, but such a change seems unlikely at this moment. As long as the Serbs are divided among three states (Serbia, Srpska and Montenegro) and Kosovo and Metohija remains an unresolved frozen conflict, we will continue to face problems.
Thanks. But don’t you also think that Serbia also needs to rethink its understanding of what happened? People seem to think that NATO just decided one day to start bombing Serbia. Very few acknowledge the damage that Milošević did. And people talk about the violation of Serbia’s territorial integrity. But they forget that Serbia under Milošević showed absolutely no regard for the territorial integrity of Bosnia and Croatia. This is also a huge part of the problem. Too many people in Serbia was to wallow in the narrative of victimisation. It’s easier to present the West as their enemy, rather than try to examine the situation seriously and realise that Serbia is paying the price for Milošević’s disastrous policies.
@@JamesKerLindsay Bombarding of Bosnia and then Serbia by NATO in 1999 opened Pandora's box for other kind interventions over the world. The UN could have deployed blue helmets and its forces to Kosovo instead of issuing resolution supporting the bombing of Serbia by NATO as it did in Bosnia. Was Milosevic an idiot politically speaking? Yes. But the bombing of Serbia was already been decided at that point, the same way the war in 1914 was decided even before archduke was shot by Princip. What was on the table in Rambouillet was no different than what Austro-Hungary requested in 1914, knowing that Serbia wouldn't accept it.
Whether the Russia or West, there are no feeling between countries, just pure interest that shifts from time to time. What Serbia sees in NATO is same as what Poland sees in Russia. If the roles were reversed it would be probably the same.
Things like friendship, feelings and such are modern creations influenced by anthropomorphic personification of countries by people. But if one has to be used: International relations are like poker; each country wants to profit and hold the hand as much as necessary, but the outcome of the game for it depends on the person (leadership at the table). The more successive successful players show, the country profits in the long run and brings back the money which is then invested in its further development.
@@JamesKerLindsay Professor, respectively, why do you sound like a Kosovo Albanian Reddit bot when you make such claims? Most Serbs of over 18 know absolutely a lot about why things happened, and we all know very well of our war crimes. Why is every paid actor who comments on Serbia, mandated to write that sentence, that we just woke up not knowing why we were bombed. The question is, do you know all the reasons why we were bombed? And how did it got to there? Or was it like "we were warning you, but you were evil"? That's a very nice fairy tale many people in the West can still afford to live by. The problem is that it's not the reality of the situation.
And I would love to see how you comment on Albanians, Croatians, Bosniaks perception of their own war crimes against Serbs. Would really love to see it. Eagerly anticipating to hear Albanians talk about 2004, or Croatians about Oluja in black shirts.
The West is colonising Serbia and disrespecting it, it doesnt create any goodwill among Serbs towards the West and USA
Correction history of Serbia starts in Neolithic times , with Lepinski Vir. 8000 BC.
Serbia was an empire in the 14th century.
Not really. The geography controlled by Serbia was very small.
@@thomassenbart on th beginning of the 14th century Serbia owned alot of the byzantine empire
Serbia proclaimed itself an empire, it doesnt mean it was recognized as such in international affairs. So technically professor is correct here, Serbia was a kingdom and its king and not emperor was Stefan Dusan. Serbia never got acknowledgment of its status at the time and its emperor and church along with the patriarch were anatemized by byzantine empire and patriarch in Constantinopol. We Serbs should attempt to understand our own history much more than we do.
@@Zadrigo Well that basicly means unrecognized regional power
@@japorto100 No, it did not. It consisted of a small chunk in the Balkans.
Serbia is in a tough place, surrounded by the EU and NATO, they need to bid their time, and hope for a change in the weather. It's interesting how between Slovakia, Serbia, and Hungry, there is, if not exactly a pro Russian block, there is pro neutral grouping, in Austria and Croatia there are a lot of, again pro neutral voters. This correspondence to the old Habsburg lands is probably not an accident. When taken together with the very real sympathies of the old Prussian state in eastern Europe in the AFD for Russia, perhaps the old alliance of the 3 empires is not totally forgotten in the modern era.
Interesting point of view.
Indeed. Was thinking myself similar possibility... In my opinion EU is not going to exist in near future as we know it or at all, and it can rise all kind of possibilities, which includes smaller blocks within or unification between countries, however crazy it sounds, but hey we live in crazy times...
@@davidd6842 yes, I do think that the old political cultures of Europe will reassert themselves. You can see that across eastern Europe. This may not be a good thing, most of Europe, even what is now considered liberal western Europe, was actually authoritarian, even the EU itself is showing signs of authoritarianism, especially under the VDL commission. The War in Ukraine seems to have accelerated that process as the EU is moving from its trading mission towards protectionism and securitization. Going to be a interesting next 50 years.
very interesting idea
I'm not sure where you're going with this. The Habsburgs themselves have a lengthy history of backing Ukraine, especially the current head of the family, Karl, who is very pro-EU.
Serbian people and Russian people, they love each other. There are family.
Except that it’s not that simple. Some Serbs see it that way. Others don’t. That was my whole point.
Those who do not " see it that way" are just part of liberal current and can easily change their minds. So, all in all, more than 90% Serbs are with Russia, tradicionally and in their heart!!! @@JamesKerLindsay
@@JamesKerLindsay No matter how small, one can not find a country where everyone thinks the same nor would that generally be a good thing. However, when it comes to East vs. West alignment, Serbian people overwhelmingly lean east and conflict in Ukraine only amplified these feelings. While West and West aligned nations tend to think Russian imperialism and Putin's megalomania are the core issue, majority of the rest of the world sees US imperialism thru their hawkish MIC and vassal nations as such.
@@6042833 100% correct!!.
Ziveli Srbija🇷🇸 Ziveli Rossiya 🇷🇺
@@JamesKerLindsay As a Serb I can guarantee you that way more than 80% of us do see Russia as closest ally. What our politicians do is completely irrelevant to the feelings of Serbs towards Russians...we are utterly disgusted by their (our government) actions. The only explanation is that they are just buying time and Russians know that...since we are an easy target and powder keg could be lit anytime... If you understand what I mean, without further explanation. But dont get confused for 1 second that we are divided when it comes to supporting Russia or not..
Maybe people that you hung around with gave you the wrong impression...they are the "fifth column" minority that we always had as a burden and baggage to carry...through centuries.
Gavrilo was not a Serbian nationalist, Yung Bosnia had muslims and catholics in their ranks,
Gavrilo was a Serbian man tf you talking about 😂?
Гаврило Принцип је био Србин који се залагао за уједињење Јужних Словена.
@@serbianwarrior385 Yes he was but the other members of Mlada Bosna were Bosnian Muslims and Croats.
@@serbianwarrior385 he was a bosnian orthodox who assimilated into a serb...unfortunately...if he remained a bosnian the second world war would have been the first one and the first world war wouldnt have happened
@@ajdoshka 🤣🤣🤣Gavrilo was a pure Serbian,every historian says that.His cousins who are alive today say he is Serbian
NATO is not a defensive alliance after all. Thank you for good historical background
NATO IS a defensive alliance.
@@dzidzabidza789 nato bombardments in Yogoslavia, Libya? Were nato coubtries attacked first?
@@dzidzabidza789 lol. Nice joke.
@@dzidzabidza789who attacked them???
@@vitorlopes2064 false history
Very complex subject. What do you think about @merocaine comment/theory of the region? Thanks!
Thank you so much for the SuperThanks. That is incredibly kind. I really and truly appreciate it. Regarding your question, I wasn’t able to track it down. Do you have any more details? Very best regards, James
There is a saying here - "EU pretends to want to let us in, and we pretend that we want in."
EU makes the most geographical sense, but the western approach to dealing with us was always to twist our arm and make us cry uncle. In this conflict, we see reverberations of the Yugoslav wars, especially the parallel between Boris Johnson's intervention to stop a settlement early on and US ambassador Zimmermann's sabotaging of the Lisabon agreement that would have stopped the war in Bosnia.
You guys are harder to live with than you would like to think...
At a time when 27 countries, many of which were frequently at war in past are all partners in the EU, and all Serbia’s neighbours are getting on with European integration, perhaps it’s time to ask if the problem perhaps lies in Serbia!? Seriously, I have spent a lot of time there. I know the country well. But there really needs to be some introspection about the Milošević years and the damage that this has done to the country’s standing. There is no great plot against Serbia. There never was. But so many people there just don’t want to consider what happened in the 1990s. For instance, people complain about Kosovo and the violation of Serbia’s territorial integrity. Did Serbia care about the violation of Bosnian and Croatian territorial integrity when RSK and RS were trying to break away? No, not at all. See, no one thinks in those terms. It’s all about Serbia being the victim of unprovoked aggression. There is just no honest introspection.
@JamesKerLindsay You can't just cherry-pick parts of the constitution you like and ignore other inconvenient parts. Bosnia and Croatia didn't have the right to secede without the consent of all the constitutional peoples therein. Once the nationalist governments trampled those rights, the Serbian minorities reacted. But OK, if the west had one set of principles in Bosnia and Croatia, why did they change their tune in Kosovo? They bombed the rebelling Serb minority of Krajina into exodus, but they helped the rebelling Albanian minority in cleansing their territory. The west armed and directed the insurgency in Kosovo. Any constitutionally sanctioned police or military action would have caused the west to intervene, which was the point. We only had the option of resisting or yielding our sovereignty without a fight.
But of course, the narrative can never be that the empirial will of the west was imposed onto us. No, we just needed a lesson in humanitarian crisis resolution...
@@JamesKerLindsay "At a time when 27 countries, many of which were frequently at war in past are all partners in the EU, and all Serbia’s neighbours are getting on with European integration, perhaps it’s time to ask if the problem perhaps lies in Serbia!?"
That is not an argument its straw-man, i can use same on you, if you look at the amount of people that are supporting Serbia in its Kosmet issue its a lot bigger than vice versa, so by your standard it means that problem lies in you/EU/NATO?
You need to prove that there is no great plot against Serbia because all evidence points otherwise, just stating that does not make it true.
We know what happened in 1990 and there was HEAVY INVOLVEMENT from outside, supporting separatism from outside forces was BLATANT and OBVIOUS.
Yes Milosevic lost the war, well how can he win against such a massive force, its impossible and he made a lot of mistakes yes, so have the other separatists leaders which you fail to recognize and admit, WE HAVE SUFFERED FOR IT GREATLY SO CAN YOU PLEASE LEAVE US ALONE NOW?
Oh wait its not over yet, we need to suffer until we stop to exist that is the only time when you will be satisfied.
Sorry but you do not get to decide my fate, only GOD almighty is in charge of that, you might think you are objective but i assure you that you are very biased and actually starting to look like you have some kind of Serbofobia in you.
I just fail to recognize what have Serbs ever done to you? There must be some reason for this irrational behavior...
I have to disagree with you professor. Serbian current political positioning is as pro Russian as it can be. The only reason they are not more open about it is because they are landlocked and surrounded by Nato countries.
Serbs don't deny they like Russia no matter the geopolitical position it was always at the crossroads.
The Serbs have always looked up to the Russian people and Russia. Like the Croats have always looked up to the Germans and Germany. On the other hand Muslims in Bosnia are more attached to Turkey. Having this in mind, the situation in this part of the Balkans have and will always be very complicated and dependent on the global geopolitical movements.
@@bojanakolak7451 nothing wrong with looking up to Russia or Russian society.
The issue is rather the Russian imperialist ambitions and Serbian "Greater Serbia" ambitions. We have to recognize that these ideas are violent and incompatible with a democratic society that values human rights
You got it 100%. And that is correct for Serbian official government . Just imagine ordinary people. They don’t care what others think about them. They are pro Russian much more than official government.
I ne treba
Thank you. This was fascinating.
I was reminded of historian Norman Davies complaint that west Europeans tended to view the history of Poland (and other parts of astern Europe) through the lens of the Yalta agreement. In Poland's case it meant that in the 1940s, when the western arm of the Polish home guard fought a partisan war against German invaders, it was claimed they were on the allied side. When the same group in the east of the country fought a partisan war against the Soviet Union, they were called Nazi sympathisers!
We seem to have the same need to put Serbia in a "with us or against us" framework, rather than admit their own perspective and priorities may not neatly fit our viewpoint.
Thank you so much Tony. A brilliant point. In one sense, I can understand why Belgrade took the pragmatic decision to engage with Moscow to fight its battle over Kosovo. It was just doing what it felt it needed to do to defend a national issue. But as I hoped to show this wasn’t down out of any deep conviction of Serbian-Russian friendship, as is commonly presented by many in the West or by Serbian nationalists - an odd pairing who reach the same exaggerated conclusions for completely different reasons.
I enjoy watching each video, great work! 👍
Thank you so much. Have a really good weekend!
Super filmčić
ATHLÈTES DU MONDE ENTIER RESTER CHEZ VOUS IL AURAS PAS DE JEUX OLYMPIQUES ET PARA OLYMPIQUES DEUIL MONDIALE UNIVERSEL POUR LE PEUPLE PALESTINIENS
6:43 Correction, but important one. Serbia DID NOT capitulate in '99.
The war ended with the signing of the Kumanovo Agreement on June 9, 1999, and the following day UN resolution 1244 was adopted, and the Yugoslav army withdrew from Kosovo.
ONE MORE IMPORTANT THING, the action was carried out without the approval of the United Nations Security Council.
Thank you, but it did capitulate. It did not surrender. There is an important difference, that many people don’t actually realise, or confuse. Capitulate is defined as ceasing resistance. This is what Serbia did.
Russia is the only country that is committed to upholding the Dayton Agreement which protects minority rights within Bosnia Herzegovina.
And Russia supports the territorial integrity of Serbia with regards to Kosovo.
Yes it's a hypocritical position but that's against the US who's hypocrisy is 100x worse.
But all of that is beside the point, I'd say China has a special relationship in the 21st century as their initiatives within Serbia has revived much of the economy that was destroyed by NATO and the dissolution of Yugoslavia
In Bosnia, the West is violating the internationally accepted Dayton Agreement to the detriment of the Serbs. In Macedonia, they are breaking agreements to the detriment of Macedonians. In Kosovo, they support the creation of a new state. And each of those events are supposedly special, and cannot be approached in the same way because they are very different. In essence, they have a long-term policy of weakening Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia, because they are countries that look favorably on the Russians.
@@FilipPetrovic999 you're 100 percent right.
Not to mention the blatant interference in Montenegro.
Serbia is lucky to have a friend at all.
It is a misconception that Russia has historically been an ally of Serbia. In the late 1940s, the Russians were arming, training, and supporting the Albanians against the Serbians. Between 1948 and 1953, there were 7,877 border clashes between Albanian groups, backed by the Russians, and Serbian border guards, who were supported by the USA.
Here is a Fun Fact about the Russia: It was Russia who saved The Union during the American Civil War as they sent their Navy to San Francisco and New York when England and France were just about to enter the war on the side of the Confederates since London created the Confederates. France was already in Mexico making a spear head movement to resupply the Confederates and to open up a Pacific Theatre and to create a port in California. England already amassed 11,000 troops and growing stationed at their Northern Confederacies border now called Canada ready to open a Northern Theatre to divert Union troops away from their Southern Confederacy then to attack The Unions naval blockade. The Union would have been completely destroyed and annexed by those two great powers leaving the Confederates to exist as either a puppet state of London or to be fully brought back into the fold of the British Empire.
London was already courting (threatening/bribing) other countries to get involved like Spain while Russia was in talks with Prussia to ally with incase London was to intervene.
Seeing all of this Tsar Alexander II wrote a letter to Queen Victoria saying “If you enter in this war it will be a casus belli for all out war with the Russian Empire”. The stage was set for the 1st World War and Russia stopped it.
There is also a memorial in San Francisco for the hundreds of Russian sailors who came off their Asiatic fleet ships that died while helping the city put out a fire that threatened to lay waste to it during the War.
The Russian fleet also threatened to Shell Australian ports along with other British Pacific Colonies if Britain aided the Confederates. A confederate war ship spent a lot of time in Australian waters and was supported by the Australian public, some even signing on as crew members. This Confederate war ship laid waist to the US Pacific whaling fleet and is reported to have fired the last shot in the war. The name of the ship was called the CSS Shenandoah. Its surrender was at Liverpool England where Confederate Commander Bulloch was stationed.
Bulloch was the head spy Chief for the Confederates and main go between for London, Montreal, and Richmond. He was heavily involved in the finance of the South with British banking and supplied the south with its warships as most of them were made by the British. He was good friends with those who drafted the Very discriminatory Confederate Constitution and those that would later create the 'Clan'. He was also heavily involved in the assassinations of Lincoln and his cabinet members. He was Also the Uncle to President Theodore Roosevelt (on his mothers side of course) and Teddy greatly looked up to him and learned much from him from a very early age. Teddy called him 'Uncle Jimmy'. This is where Teddy Roosevelt got the idea for the 'Eff Bee Eye' he modeled it almost exactly from Londons 'Em Eye Five'.
Russia also helped Thailand (Kingdom of Siam) maintain its sovereignty from being completely Partitioned/Annexed from the British and French around the same time. The very word Thai (ไทย) means 'free man' in the Thai language which is partially to thank to the Russians as they might have ended up being a colony or part of another country/colony if not for their intervention.
England didn't exist as a country then. It's been Great Britain ever since the 18th century union with Scotland.
@@pio4362 I think you will enjoy this quote from the Russian Foreign Minister Alexander Gorchakov writing to Lincoln in the Autumn of 1862 a year and a half into the war-
"You know that the government of United States has few friends among the Powers. England rejoices over what is happening to you; she longs and prays for your overthrow. France is less actively hostile; her interests would be less affected by the result; but she is not unwilling to see it. She is not your friend. Your situation is getting worse and worse. The chances of preserving the Union are growing more desperate. Can nothing be done to stop this dreadful war? The hope of reunion is growing less and less, and I wish to impress upon your government that the separation, which I fear must come, will be considered by Russia as one of the greatest misfortunes. Russia alone, has stood by you from the first, and will continue to stand by you. We are very, very anxious that some means should be adopted-that any course should be pursued-which will prevent the division which now seems inevitable. One separation will be followed by another; you will break into fragments."
@@pio4362 Here is another quote I think you will like but from Tsar Alexander II in an Interview after the war:
"In the Autumn of 1862, the governments of France and Great Britain proposed to Russia, in a formal but not in an official way, the joint recognition by European powers of the independence of the Confederate States of America. My immediate answer was: "I will not cooperate in such action; and I will not acquiesce. On the contrary, I shall accept the recognition of the independence of the Confederate States by France and Great Britain as a casus belli for Russia. And in order that the governments of France and Great Britain may understand that this is no idle threat; I will send a Pacific fleet to San Francisco and an Atlantic fleet to New York."
Prof Ker-Lindsay, all your videos are great, but this one is really amazing! A very carefully considered look at a complex topic. Thanks for making it and sharing it
Thank you so much! I really and truly appreciate it. This was a subject that has long interested me and I have spoken about to people on my many trips to Serbia.
Excellent video, objective and unbiased! So, Serbia as a country (political establishment) may not be that much pro Russian, more of "Independent" stance (want to be friends with everybody), but Serbs on the other hand are in vast majority pro Russian. I'm saying this as a Serb.
Onda mi, kao Srbin, reci zašto su stotine hiljada Srba otišli za Nemačku a niko za Rusiju? Ko i ode vrati se glavom bez obzira. Govoriš o nekakvim bajkovitim emocijama, ali praktično su nepotkrepljene.
@@Ms777Lena Hoću, rado. Ovo je jedan od uobičajeno glupih pitanja. Naime, ljudi su išli u Njemačku na rad i krajem tridesetih godina, pa su završili u logorima. Ljudi su od svih okupiranih krajeva išli u Rim da traže posao. Ljudi su iz okupirane Indije išli za Englesku.
Ljudi uvijek idu tamo gde se trenutno nalazi sila i novac.
Ali to ne znači da je ta sila pravedna i da je taj novac pošten.
Sutra će isto tako (a već su zapadnjaci počeli) da se sele u Rusiju u potrazi za istim.
@@BorisTeodosijevic ne mogu da otvorim odgovor iz nekog razloga. Govorim o godinama Vučićeve vladavine. Lekari i inženjeri pristižu dnevno. Kakve 30te?
@@BorisTeodosijevic da li me zezaš? Rusi se svakodnevno doseljavaju u Srbiju, da ne govorim o Nemačkoj. Dnevno. Ima ih svugde, jedna od brojnijih grupa stranaca ja mislim, u svakoj zemlji. Oni beže odande a nama je Rusija super? O čemu pričaš? Nije je za džaba Dostojevski nazvao "tamnicom naroda".
@@Ms777Lena Pričam o tome da niste obavješteni. Iz Rusije odlaze oni prozapadne Rusi, a u Rusiju se doseljavaju zapadnjaci koji traže tradicionalne vrijednosti i sigurnu budućnost.
Good analysis Professor! As a Serb and follower of your work and channel (I referenced your work in my master’s thesis!), I find this video well balanced and insightful for many who do not understand the complex relationship between Serbia and Russia. Thanks!
Thank you so much Aleksandar! I really am fascinated by this subject. I have had so many conversations with Serbian friends about this subject over the years. But, as I said, I have just had a sense that something has changed with the Ukraine war and wanted to understand what it was. It does seem that it is really about double standards of the West rather than an instinctive pro-Russian sentiment, which I don’t think is nearly as prominent as many outsiders like to think it is. Hvala puno i laku noć.
@@JamesKerLindsay Serbs see Russian full scale invasion of Ukraine as NATO vs Serbia part two, and illogically support a brutal invasion and secession of Ukrainian territory no matter the fact that similar thing happened to them with Kosovo.
However not many like logics in Serbia, national myths are much more appreciated so here we are.
In Serbia there is a saying:"The politics is a whore". Double standards are somewhat a norm in politics. Of course the west has double standards when it comes to Serbia, and the west holds some responsibility of what is happening in Serbia, but much less than what an average Serb believes . The problem is that Serbs allowed themselves to get into this situation in the first place, and now they use this "double standards" as an excuse for everything that happens. When trowing flowers on tanks going to Croatia during the nineties it was all fine, but when the price needed to be paid suddenly everyone cries about Kosovo and double standards.
Serbian society needs to learn a lot about democracy, then forget their populistic myths about the ethnicity, religion and nation being a genetic category, and third they need to stop blaming others for their own stupidity. Only then the nation will raise the head above the shitty water in which it is bathing now.
@@JamesKerLindsay Even if the Serbs trusted the British. When you praise us, you are the most suspicious for us.
Yeah, nowhere near in comparison to the US Albanian relationship or the Germany Croatian relationship. Serbs, however insignificant, always try to maximize their independence from the big powers. They are the Piedmont of the South Slavs, the Iran of the Balkans.
Especially the German Croatian relationship during ww2.
Serbia WANTED to be the Piedmont of the southern Slavs, but failed miserably. In 1918, most South Slavs welcomed the union of nations and creation of SHS/Yugoslavia, but by 1930 the undemocratic and centralistic/unitaristic Serbian leadership had turned the majority of the non-Serbian population against the idea.
@@markopintericOn what basis did the rest of the South Slavs join the union with Serbia?
@@grol2803 Some details were alreay agreed during the First World War, but after the dissolution of Austria-Hungary, the State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs voted in favour of uniting with Serbia and establishing the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes.
@@markopinteric You used past tense by mistake here😊. Yeah because repression happens without a cause. Don't mix the cause and effect. The Croats started destroying the Yugoslavia from the day they joined. Why? Because they wanted their own country for centuries and had to join bcs the Allies would partition the country if they didn't obey. So no, the Serbs are not the cause of all Croatian problems.
The Serbs are a very pragmatic people. The video did a great job outlining some important points in Serbian history but omitted key moments. From the Serbian perspective, they felt that Serbs living in neighboring countries (Croatia, Bosnia, etc.) should have enjoyed more protections in those regions. Also, many of them were not too keen on Milosevic and company and felt the West was was legitimizing his regime while he was "useful" to them. Many Western institutions went out of their way to reinforce these feelings of abandonment and persecution that the Serbs felt by ensuring unfairness in reporting, negotiations and treatment. This continues to this day.
What bring Serbs and Russians together the most is how they perceive their unfair treatment by the west.
One last point Serbs and 99.9% of the world choose to learn English, not out of reverence for the West, but out of pragmatism, English is the Lingua Franca of the world. England's influence is as the Serbs would say "изпушено"
@@ajazvo Most Serbs know English pretty well a lot better then I thought not counting us in the diaspora that went to elementary school outside the country.
@@bilic8094 unfortunately Serbs in the Western diaspora tend to live in "affordable" neighborhoods that typically have poor schools.
Serbia has shown to have more balls and courage than the whole of Europe combined! By resisting pressure from the US and its attack dog nato.
So even Serbia was to bend under this pressure it would be understandable because this is tremendous pressure. Many countries were only too happy to bend to the US global hegemony without even the slightest resistance.
Serbian population is as you suggested largely pro Russia government is disconnected from the people. I will add good deeds stay long in the memory, while we have bitter taste with west throughout the history.
Thanks. But I think it is also important not to confuse what happened in the 1990s under Milošević with the broad sweep of history. Throughout the 20th century Britain and France were close allies of Serbia. This tends to be forgotten. The focus in on the Yugoslav wars, a situation that people often read through a particularly distorted lens, has come to dominate the discussion and yet all the other times are overlooked.
Srbija i Rusija braca!! 🇷🇺🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇺
I have doubts about that poll.
Other polls are mostly 50-50, or slightly towards anti-EU.
Thanks. The poll was indeed quite old. That was the bit in the video where I was discussing attitudes before the Ukraine War. I think you’re right about current views. As I mentioned, my sense is that Serbian public opinion has shifted against the EU. (But also because the EU accession process is dragging on so long. Something I might try to cover in other video.)
@@JamesKerLindsay i was just getting ready to write "I got you" comment. 80% doesn't want anything with EU, their LGBT policies, not to mention even whispers of legalizing pedophilia. Also crime in 99' was not forgotten!
@@JamesKerLindsayOr maybe because EU is demanding us to renounce our land and our history?
Who would do that?
@@milostomic8539Cudim se da u Srbiji uopste i ima ljudi koji zele u tu vukojebinu.
@@JamesKerLindsayIt's more layered. The slow accession is an important aspect, but people don't care about the actual length of the process, as much as lies about the fast entry in the first place. It's this sort of carrot-chasing that is the primary factor for erosion of EU accession support.
Other reasons, of about equal importance, include: EU's pretty obvious support for Kosovo, and the general perception that EU's interests are conflicted with Serbian national interests; EU' staunch support for Ukraine; EU being seen more and more as an imperialist force that just wants to use the Balkans as a playground. Just today, you had Vucic and Scholz sign a memorandum on the exploitation of lithium (jadarite). So now you have all traditional Eurosceptic sides, combined with an increasing number of regular people, and even eco-oriented apolitical populations. I'd argue that, if it were an honest referendum on whether Serbia should continue it's European integration, _and_ if Vucic remained neutral, you'd have like 60% against. Citizens of Serbia don't believe that EU accession will benefit them. Those that want EU will simply leave for Wester European countries.
There are other lesser reasons as well. Right-wing people see EU as a hotbed of NGOs and "gender ideology", and right wing is pretty much the norm here.
The Serbian people will decide what is best for Serbia and their Families as the Hungarians have done also. We do not go against our Russian Brothers and Sisters. Politics have always played a big part in all our lives. God Bless all Slavics we all have something to contribute to a better lifestyle for ourselves and our Freedom. From an Australian Serbian, Hungarian ancestry on my mother,s side, Serbian on my Fathers side and Baptized Russian Orthodox Church in Sydney. I am hoping a Peaceful solution for all Slavics is on its way, with Respect. God Bless. ❤
Thank you for this. I find it very interesting, hope i had some Serbian friends i could talk to on whats happening there. From all i have gathered a very patriotic country of good people who deserve better future.
As a Serb I can safely say that joining EU was lucrative prospect until that war happened that devolved EU into NATO's economic sector. Being surrounded by those organisations from all sides Serbia has to play neutral for it's own survival as just joining the EU to give up everything and embrace migrant quotas and current "strategic defeat against Russia" objective is not in our best interest. Serbs were and remain friends of Russians, there is no eventuality that can change over politics as it occurred in Greece.
Thanks. But I have to say that it comes across as a really isolationist worldview in Serbia when the answer to all your neighbours and trading parties being part of the EU means that Serbia should stay out of it! 27 countries are now members, with others lining up to join or having close relations - and even the UK is increasingly regretting leaving. I don't understand this outlook. Sometimes, it seems that many Serbs enjoy the idea of being a victim and standing apart from all their natural partners - many of which have had long histories of fighting each other in the past but can now see the benefits of European unity.
@@JamesKerLindsayWe don't trust our enemies.Germans are the first I can think of.
They proved their hostility towards us many times before.
Serbia has a special relationship with Russia for the following reasons:
1. The support of Imperial Russia in the liberation of Serbia from the Ottoman Empire.
2. The entry of the Russian Empire into the First World War due to the defense of Serbia against Germany and Austria-Hungary and others.
3. The liberation of Belgrade by the Red Army in the Second World War.
4. And now in modern times the support of Russia in the preservation of Serbian sovereignty and integrity.
And a million more reasons. religion, culture, language, and roots of the Slavs.
At this time, because of this relationship, the EU and US they put enormous pressure on Serbia in every way, because it is the only one in Europe that did not impose sanctions on Russia, and that also did not recognize the war territories that Russia took, Serbia considers those territories to be Ukrainian. Serbia is neutral. So it will be.Think with your heads, don't listen to the media, I wish you a nice day.
The Serbian people love Russians as their own. The Serbian state, is occupied by the USA and administered by Christopher Hill, if not on paper, in reality. This is a temporary thing, as is the USA.
A nece ni Britanci dugo.
To su nebuloze..vole zbog propagande a niko od njih nije bio u Rusiji niti ima nameru..mi sa njima nemamo nista zajednicko
You clearly forgot or didn't know that the British soldiers lost their lives while fighting on the Serbian side in the World War 1. You didn't know that during the 1990s Russia voted 3 times in the UN for sanctions against Serbia. You didnt know that after Tito-Stalin split, the Russians were arming Enver Hoxha and supported albanian bands to attact the serbian border guards between 1949 to 1953. You don't know that Russia was selling weapon to Croatia during the croatian war with Serbia? Or that Russians were separating Montenegro from Serbia 3 times since the Congress of Berlin of 1878...etc
As always many thanks for your ying yeng videos professor .keep up the impressive work.
You are soooooo wrong mr Profesor. Kosovo had a autonomy prior to Nato, US and European Union muscling Serbia out in order to build one of the biggest air bases in Europe.
Serbia did not capitulate. Far from it. They signed an agreement which Serbia trusted to be European and American word of honor which gave Serbia rights under that UN 1244 agreement.
Serbia is a sovreign country that is independent. More than I can say for Germany, France or for that matter, Italy.
Everyone should be like Serbia, than we would have a better world.
As a Canadian in Belgrade, I find it fascinating to hear what Serbians think about Russia, China and the U.S. I hope to learn more about their perspectives as I learn Serbian because, unfortunately, I find that only speaking English here limits my understanding of the culture, especially considering the latest wave of Russian immigrants (I'm saying this as a non-expert on the topic; I know you've written extensively on Serbia).
Please feel free to make more videos on the Balkans; they're always welcome! It's an area of interest for both of us. 🇷🇸
Cheers!
-Phil Sidock
I've always taken the view that the Serbian authorities really do understand that their future lays within the EU .
This is why they are a candidate member , they also see their neighbors Slovenia and Croatia who have already joined the EU advance and progresss much faster than themselves .
Yes Serbia has historical and cultural links with Russia but the hard reality is what the EU offers and what Russia offers are two different pathways completely .
Serbia is a European country and must choose the EU for its future prosperity , in fact keeping close relations with Russia could be a good thing for Serbia and for the EU as it keeps the doors open for any discussions post Ukraine war .
Thanks so much, Roddy. That’s pretty much my view as well. I had a few other insights and anecdotes on the topic that I had to cut out (sadly for reasons of time and tone), but one point I wanted to make is that I always remember a senior Serbian official telling me how Russian company directors were robbing Serbia. They were taking huge monthly salaries (€30k ten years ago!) and yet no one knew who they were, let alone ever met them. Another point concerned the new Belgrade Waterfront. As someone said, “our ideal is to sell ten apartments to Russians, but have the shops downstairs owned by Eestern companies. Who wants to buy Russian products!?”. It really did suck U.K. a lot of ten attitudes I see in Serbia. The relationship certainly isn’t how it is often presented; either by nationalist Serbs processing an eternal love for ‘Mother Russia’, or by the usual anti-Serbian Western voices who want to see Russophilia behind every action.
Yes,truth.Buth this relationship Serbia-EU is very frustrating-do this,do that,not good,,now do this plus things,you will be the member in 10-15 years.... etc.By this "rules" no one country now in EU never could be a member.Mr Scholtz openly said that Serbia had to be member before 20 years.And now,with this hysteria with Ukraine,all this is far away.Yesterday,i found some article-EU baned 70 million euros help for Bosnia because of some rules...In same time when Ukraine got 40 BILLIONS!So,im old man,for me ,story with EU for Serbia is just a joke,i dont want to hear it anymore-liars from both sides.
Excellent video, grest informativni
Thanks so much!
A video about Serbia...you are really asking for it, Professor, aren't you ? 😂
Haha! Indeed. Seriously though, I don't think I have been particularly inflammatory. As I mentioned, I have spent a lot of time in Serbia and often talked about this. It is a really interedting situation and less straightforward than it seems. But, yes, I think I am probably asking for it! :-)
ATHLÈTES DU MONDE ENTIER RESTER CHEZ VOUS IL AURAS PAS DE JEUX OLYMPIQUES ET PARA OLYMPIQUES DEUIL MONDIALE UNIVERSEL POUR LE PEUPLE PALESTINIENS
@@JamesKerLindsay I guess you did not want to show their GDP per capita as a way to soften the hate which might appear in the comments
85-90% of Serbs stand with Russia. Politics is something different but the people of Serbia definitely without a doubt stand with Russian people.
dude if you want talk right why you don't say that Russia supplied Croatia with weapons in war with Serbia!?Yes Serbia is really friend with Russia.
We are not friends..thsts the propagands..and thats true about weapons
@@zoranzlatan1801 govori gospode
Na zalost
For over 200 years, Russian volunteers fought for the Serbian army, and Serbian volunteers fought for the Russian army. Politicians are politicians. People are people. Politicians and their policies do NOT reflect the opinion of the majority.
Serbia has had a complicated relationship with the Russians in the 20th century.
(1) The Russian Czar after listening to the Serbs ended up entering WW1. As a result, he and his family were murdered by the Bolsheviks.
(2) the Serbian (Yugoslav) Royal family had a hostile relationship with the Soviet Union.
(3) After 1948 Tito ( o.k he was a Croat/Slovene but the head of the Yugoslav communist Party in Belgrade) and the Yugoslav communist party had a bad relationship with Stalin and the Soviet Union.
(4) Russian President Yeltsin in the 1990s did not like Serbian President Milosevic on a personal level.
Very well-balanced and accurate analysis.
Thank you so much!
Hi, as Serbian I wouldn't like to join in Eu and rather would pick Brics
One thing to add: as a Serbian I remember far too well May 1992, when UN has approved a resolution posing international sanctions to Yougoslavia (consisting of Serbia and Montenegro). These sanctions had devastating consequences to our economy. At that time Russia has voted FOR these snactions at UN. They could have easily vetoed it if they wanted to support us and we would be far too grateful. But no, they even did not absent, they voted FOR the sanctions. I will never forget them this one.
Good point. You’re right. I was actually rather easier on Russia in the 1990s than I could have been. But it’s interesting that many Serbs look at the events of the 1990s when world opinion was united against Milošević and don’t seem to ask whether Serbia was perhaps in the wrong. Also, I think that part of the reason the West was willing to accept Kosovo’s secession was precisely because Serbia hadn’t cared about the territorial integrity of Bosnia and Croatia just a few years earlier when Serbs in RS and RSK tried to break away.
❤Я казах родившийся в россии в СССР в 1983 году и живущий тут простите нас братья сербы у нас тогда был у власти предатель Ельцин который изберался во власть на деньги Америки это сами американцы подтвердили что Ельцин избирался на деньги Америке и был их марионеткой который сделал россию нео колонией США и мы в те времена не знали об этом и не понимали что происходит в нашей стране и в мире отрезвление пришло при Путине
@@JamesKerLindsay You say: „Serbia hadn’t cared about the territorial integrity of Bosnia and Croatia just a few years earlier when Serbs in RS and RSK tried to break away“. An incredible statement that is light years away from the truth. Stop misleading. Serbs from Bosnia and Croatia they declared themselves in favor of remaining in Yugoslavia, whose integrity was disturbed by Croats and Bosnian Muslims in cooperation with the collective West. The integrity of Yugoslavia and then Serbia is irrelevant in your narrative, and you have a universal justification for their gross violation - Milošević. But that's why the integrity of Bosnia and Croatia are the holy of holies. An interesting interpretation of international law.
Serbia and Russia have a bond !! For us Serbs Russia is our mother!!
No, it isn’t. That was the whole point. The relationship is far more complex than that. Some Serbs may see it that way, and you may be one of them. But I know many who have a very different feeling towards Russia, especially Russia under Putin.
Speak for yourself, nothing good came out of this relationship
@@sepic13 for Serbs, Serbia is the Fatherland and Russia the Motherland what are you understanding wrong?
@@NikolaHDpsst , ne sramoti se bruko
@@JamesKerLindsaynothing is complex, most of Serbs are for Russia , some anti Serbs and vučić and his criminal gang aren't , it's that easy. There are also some people misled by propaganda but that can be fixed when media is liberated
Anglosaxon's genocides.....all around world ?????
yeah sure, according to Russia, Serbia, China, Iran, Syria, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela and all the other "free" countries associated with them
It is not about friendship, its about payments.
What analysts seem to not get, at least in my opinion, is that the choices on Serbia's side have no real national interest behind them. Serbia right now is basically completely controlled by its president and his mafia regime that clings to power by election rigging and media control. The choices are purely made to keep Vucic in power and to enrich him as much as possible. The ruling party has deep ties with the mafia, so much so that they basically are the mafia. The only real thing that shapes policy outside of that is public opinion, which in turn is influenced by Vucic and his cronies through captured media outlets. Just some days ago Vucic basically gave a whole lithium mine to Germany and the EU - anything to stay in power and get dirty money; it has nothing to do with Serbia and its interests.
А ти!? Кога ти представљаш? Чије интересе? Лажеш све што си овде написао. И док такви постоје Вучић може да буде спокојан на власти.
Very well, in most of your previous episodes I had mainly critics and counterarguments, this time, at this episode I am without critics because what has been said is very truthful. At the end of analysis there could be a recommendation for the future of Serbia. I would like to give you a suggestion for your next episode, for example, "Serbia as a member of EFTA agreement". If European Union don't trust Serbia and has a fear that like Hungarians Serbs will block all decisions against Russia, isn't it good temporary solution for West to join Serbia to EFTA where are already Norway, Switzerland, Island and Lichtenstein. Serbs would immediately felt themselves as a part of the Western civilization and later the problems with Kosovo would be much easier to negotiate then it is now when we are outside of Western society. I wish you to continue your work and hope that European decision-makers will take into account your analysis. Best regards.
Why is it a concern if two countries want to be friends, not our problem stop hating
The so-called "professor" is a clown, a childlike mind who thinks that "special relationships" (which does exist between Slavs of Serbia and of Russia) has to be perfect in every way.
An excellent video professor! Very balanced as always, and much to the point. You are absolutely right about the complexity of this relationship and the recent shifts in public opinion. It would be also good to supplement this with a video on how the EU and USA have propped up Vucic's authoritarianism for opportunistic reasons, opening the space for Russian influence in Serbia. As testified by my democratically minded friends in Serbia, the western powers seem much more interested in Vucic giving in on the Kosovo issue and advancing business interests than in democracy. The latest example is their support for a lithium plant in western Serbia which may have devastating consequences for the environment.
Thank you so much. Great point. The relationship between Serbia and the West is really interesting in all sorts of ways. Lots to explore there!
🇷🇸 🇷🇺
Zivela Rusija i srbija!!! braca zauvek!!!
6:28 It wasn't mainly inhabitet by ethnic Albanians before Tito let hundreds of thousands of them to settle there by allowing them to move from Albania and it's shit China tied communist Hoxha dictator.
They were let in to have better lives... then they rebeled.. started attacking police patrols from ambush etc..
Lol
Excellent analysis. Though western media always says Serbia is some sort of Russian satellite, president Vucic is trying hard to balance its relations with the EU and Russia.
As you know I've been exploring the Balkans for months and I stayed more than 2 months in Serbia and 1 month in Kosovo. Serbian population is the one in the Balkans that speak better English. It's really unlikely to find a Russian speaker. It is true that it is easier to find "proeuropean" people, specially among young people, but in my opinion this is due their inferiority feel on their difficulties in travelling and working abroad. They see how in almost all sorrounding countries young people can travel and work easily abroad and this is specially painful for the young generations. But at the same time they know they have sovereignty, they don't forget what NATO did there and how still today people is dying from cancer from the tons of depleted uranium thrown there and so on. If Serbia was granted with Schengen privileges I have no doubt they wouldn't feel the need to join EU (although this is not going to happen of course). Serbia is also cheaper than all the countries sorrounding them that are in the EU. And they know prices will rise if they join like it happened in Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania or Hungary.
They also know that historically Russia has always supported them (Ottomans, World Wars, Kosovo...) so they feel they have to give back too.
About Kosovo I'll leave my vision for another video.
Thank you professor
Thanks so much. It interesting to hear that your experiences very much mirror my own in Serbia. That’s why I was so keen to make this view. I would keep hearing outsiders complain about Serbia’s innate pro-Russian sentiment. I also gut fed up with the nationalists always saying how great Russia is and how all Serbs love it. In fact, both sides are wrong. The relationship is a lot more complex than many realise, and in many what’s what we are seeing now is more about anti-Western anger than real and true-Russian sentiment.
It's not just Serbia. most of the Balkans have a good relationship with the Russians. The only reason anything like arms sales occur to Ukraine and other non-Russia friendly nations is because of pressure exerted on the Serbian government (or other governments in the area) at a time of weakness. This is why, this is the only reason.
If you ask anyone in the Balkans if they like the Russians, the sentiment is generally positive with the exceptions of some youth whose minds have been warped over the last 20 years by the influence of American news in the region.
Everyone from the Balkans knows, understands and respects the Russians and their immense sacrifice from 1941 to 1945. The world would have been a completely different place if that terror in Germany had continued to exist.
Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, Montenegrins, Macedonians, Slovenians have never forgotten that sacrifice and god willing our children will never forget it.
Serbia, as you mentioned, has historical and religious ties with Russia.
Complex relationship in past , for sure.
Serbia also had a good relationship with the west.
Prior as a kingdom and also after WWII.
However …
Big powers always had a special interest in Balkan, especially in Serbia.
They need their influence in the region. There is no friendship it’s all about interest, read money.
Yugoslavia was fueled, mostly by the west, to fall apart.
We have seen the results of these decisions.
Economy destroyed, banking system also, people were put on brink of poverty, many to poverty status.
Foreign companies, banks came and bought domestic companies for pennies.
USA and west needed Yugoslavia as a friend because Soviet Union.
Just to show world that socialist/communist country can be treated friendly. After collapse of communism that friendly country lost on importance and therefore collapse of Yugoslavia was just another step of control of newly formed countries.
NATO bombing , for sure, pushed Serbia closer to Russia nowadays. Russia is using that for their own interests.
Again there is no love ,just money or to prevent other side to gain influence.
I can say same for China,first influence in Balkan and later in Europe.
Unfortunately we are in a big chess game and someone else moves the pieces.
This beautiful historically rich country has several problems.
First Serbs are very proud people and they value freedom and independence.
Second Serbia is small country with low population that is declining.
Third Serbia is NOT nuclear power.
Small population equals smaller economy. Non nuclear means, well we all know that
and Serbia wants to be independent!?
Well that’s a NO NO for all big players.
That’s why Serbia is balancing between powers.
You’ll always have pro west and pro Russian people in Serbia.
Neither side can’t and shouldn’t prevail because it would lead to uncharted territory.
real question is does EU really want Serbia to become its member or not?
Thank you professor for such a centred, neutral and pretty accurate video. Greetings from Belgrade !
Thank you for this and many videos. I'm just curious if you would elaborate further on reasons for or evidence of Serbian public opinion shifting more toward being pro Russian - maybe it is as simple as it being a reaction to 'Western hypocrisy' for the Nato bombing of 1999 relative to Ukraine? My next question following on from this would be - are Ukraine and Kosovo comparable? I was very aware of hatred toward Nato for the bombing campaign when I was there - it's quite inescapable.
@@micahrickards6016 Thanks. I actually had a bit more in the video about polar attitudes, but I had to cut it out for time and focus. I know Serbia well. I have spent a lot of time there and I speak to many Serbs. I also see how the conversation plays out online. I have seen things change a lot over the past 20 years. There was a distinct change in tone after the start of the Ukraine war. I also noticed it with good friends who were generally more pro-Western. Many felt angry about what they saw as double standards. (And I can actually see why, although I think that the other part of the problem is that too many Serbs forget what Milošević did.) I also remember a Serbian friend years ago talking about the complex relationship with Russia and that while it may have seemed close on the surface, underneath the two people were very different and many Serbs didn’t trust the Russians. This was about 30 years ago. It always stuck with me. I have long been fascinated in the relationship and wanted to make a video on it.
Regarding Ukraine and Kosovo, we obviously need to be careful. Context s everything. But, from a strictly legal perspective, the Serbs are right. Kosovo’s unilateral Declaration of Independence was contrary to standard practices and the West had no right to recognise it. (By the way, the ICJ was deliberately asked the wrong question. It should have been asked about the legality of the UDI. Instead, the question should have been whether other UN members violated their obligation to respect Serbia’s territorial integrity by recognising an independent Kosovo state. This is an interesting issue.) All this said, I have also long taken the view that Kosovo should have been regarded as effectively being a seventh Yugoslav republic and that Serbia should have just let it go its own way in the context of the more general dissolution of the country. It would have made a lot of sense - especially after Montenegro broke way in 2006. Frankly, if fellow Serbs couldn’t remain linked to Serbia (this will upset a lot of people 🙂), then why would the Albanians want to? Ultimately, huge mistakes were made all round. But on the principle issue, the Serbs have a point. Why is it that Ukraine can defend its own territorial integrity - as could Croatia, Azerbaijan, Sri Lanka, etc. against separatists - but they couldn’t?
@@JamesKerLindsay
Why don’t you tell Z-erbs , how Z-erbia illegally annexed Kosovo in 1913 straight after Albania had come out of a 440 years occupation from the ottomans ?? And all of this against Z-erbian constitution at the time which required a meeting to be held before Z-erbias borders could expand?? Propaganda professor keep lying at the Serbs, they can’t even tell anymore the difference between the lies and the truths. But anyway when Z-erbia gained independence from the ottomans, Albania was still under occupation but they waited until Albania came out of occupation so they would annexed it . Propaganda professor tell them the truth
@@JamesKerLindsay thank you so much for your reply - this is amazing, really it is! It shows your passion, knowledge and commitment. And it is very informative, shining a light on things I hadn't fully appreciated.
@@JamesKerLindsayAnd here we come to the point........I am just normal Serbian which has his reasons to be angry on western world,only thing is..... Ukraine was atacked under excuse of Kosovo and Metohija Case.
West gave the Russians that excuse served on silver Plate.
So that makes me wonder as a Serb......am i just excuse?
Is my misery,regarding Kosovo and Metohija, just excuse?
Hell i don't want that, and i wont allow it.
Friendship,Brotherhood needs to work both way.
Both sides will have to explain some Things when this bloody war is over.
And one thing is for sure......those "relationships" will never be Same again.
WE are no one EXCUSE.
@@JamesKerLindsayYou really don't know what are you talking. Albanians have their own country Albania. They were not the inhabitants of Kosovo and Metohija before 17th century (back then they were minority), they haven't liberate Kosovo and Metohija from Ottomans Serbs did that. They massively came during the ww2 and the Enver Hoxha rule in Albania and Serbs HELPED THEM. We let them stay, eventhough they were killing Serbs and being in Nazi SS troups, check Bali Kombetar. So it was not their land so Serbs would have to give them anything! But on the other side you have Serbs in today's Croatia who were living there from allways, when it was not Croatia and there were no Croats living there. Those Serbs were always fighting for liberation of Dalmatia, Slavonia, Lika... They were DEFFENDING those territories from Turks, for centuries. SERBS MADE so called Croatia, that is why they were the CONSTITUTIV nation in croatian constitution. Because they've liberted "Croatia", because they have been genocided in nazi Croatia in ww2. That was Serbian land that Croats TOOK by killing Serbs and came in their homes. Albanians also expelled Serbs from their homes and took the land. You don't recognize Republika Srpska eventhough that land has been always Serbian (of Serb people). You want to give Serb's land in bosnia to the muslims. Serbs didn't came from somewhere else to Bosnia and today's Croatia. They were always there. Those territories are of Serb people (IliroSerben). Emperor Dušan liberated Serbian lands from Romean empire. Look at the ethnical maps. He liberated only where Serbs were majority. Srblji-Tribali.
The moment when London decided to remove Serbian royal family and implement it's subjects (the usual), is the moment where Serbia became just a name. All things from the moment I mentioned to this day are just scenarios and nothing more. People who are still trying to save what can be saved know what is going on, at this point, I don't think we will exist in 15-20 years.
Serbia is pro freedom, pro real friends, and pro Slavic tradicional values, and it will always be...period.
A very balanced and welcome video. Serbia's status as a Russian "ally" is really overplayed. Call me old-fashioned, but I think alliances (at least in peacetime) require actual signed agreements. There is no such agreement between Serbia and Russia (in fact, on that basis, Serbia has exactly zero allies). There are in my mind two striking paradoxes of the Russian-Serbian friendship (and at past times, actual alliance, as in WW1), one historical and one modern. The historical one is that up until 1918, Serbia and Russia were politically diametrically opposing states and societies in terms of their characteristics and ideologies: Serbia since 1804 is a thoroughly modern revolutionary, anti-imperial state (fighting against 2 empires, building a modern state from scratch, being the 2nd country in Europe to fully abolish feudalism, having no nobility or aristocracy, etc.) while the Russian Empire until 1918 was a thoroughly reactionary conservative state. So while Serbs in the 19th and early 20th century appreciated Russia for the religious and supraethnic ties and similarities and for their help in fighting the Ottomans, and later, the Hapsburgs, they were a lot more receptive to Western liberal political ideology and conceptions of the state and of society. The modern paradox is, as you mention, that very few Serbs today speak Russian and are exposed at all to, let alone immersed in, contemporary Russian culture. The percentage of actual russophiles, if we say that these are people who regularly consume modern Russian culture in the Russian language, is minuscule in Serbia. Pro-Russian sentiments, which are widespread, are actually mostly driven by anti-Westernism (due to the 90s and the Kosovo issue) and the vast majority of pro-Russian people in Serbia have a very superficial knowledge of Russia and Russians. Serbs know the Russians as most of the world knows them - by reading classical Russian literature. However, this is nothing "special". The pro-Russian Serbs are in favour of a quite superficial image of Russia they have constructed in their mind, onto which they project their desires, rather in favour of Russia itself as it actually exists. Of course, one can say a similar thing about pro-Western or pro-EU Serbs, but there the gap between projection and reality is not nearly as wide, because on the whole Serbs are far far more exposed to and immersed in Western culture than they are to Russian culture. Out of a 100 Serbs who have travelled abroad, 99 have been to some EU country, while maybe 10 have been to Russia. For those who have worked abroad, outside of perhaps the construction industry, it's even more skewed than that.
Thanks so much. As someone who has spent a lot of time in Serbia and knows the country well, I completely agree. Most Serbs have no idea about Russia. Nationalists talk about it as some great brother, but most of the time it is based on insecurity. They want to feel they have a big ally. It is a really interesting to discuss this with Serbs in more detail. I’ve often found that in private many are deeply sceptical about Moscow. They know it isn’t a trustworthy partner, but they also feel so angry at the West they’ll latch on to it. This is part of the problem the West has. While I have often been deeply critical of Milošević’s policies that took Serbia into a dark place, the West has never really got behind the 1990s when thinking about Serbia. This has also done a lot of damage. But thanks once m again for such an interesting comment. I really appreciated it.
@@JamesKerLindsay
Uh oh the 90’s … Who rules Serbia today Professor?? 😉
Thank you for yet another well balanced and well researched presentation of international affairs.
Thank you so much! I really appreciate it. Have a great weekend. :-)
Well, judging by the comments James, you have stirred up a hornet's nest. That is not necessarily a bad thing. The Balkans have always been a complex and unstable part of the world.
I for one am glad you covered this. I have followed the situation over many years, and even visited Yugoslavia once (while fleeing Greece in 1974). It is always good to get more detail about the history, as well as the current context.
@@louisgiokas2206 Thank you Louis. Yes, it was always going to stir up controversy. Funnily enough, the people most likely to hate my conclusions are on completely the opposite sides: Western observers who want to see Moscow’s hand in everything Serbia does and Serb nationalists who seem to genuinely believe that Russia is Serbia’s best friend, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
Wow as a Serb I have to say this is the first time I see western produced content that is not a propaganda but pretty realistic and unbiased approach!
Thank you. I have actually spent a lot of time in Serbia. This was a video I had wanted to make for a long time.
Србин си који не размишља српски. Или ипак ниси Србин!?
@@ЗоранПавичић-е2укога питаш и зашто?
interesting, thank you for the video
Excellent video 💯... Very accurate ... And as a Serb (Serbian mother, Hungarian father) I can say that you seem to have an excellent understanding of the politics in Serbia and also Serbia's relationships with Russia and Europe as a whole ... I appreciate your content 💯...
Thanks so much Tommy!
ATHLÈTES DU MONDE ENTIER RESTER CHEZ VOUS IL AURAS PAS DE JEUX OLYMPIQUES ET PARA OLYMPIQUES DEUIL MONDIALE UNIVERSEL POUR LE PEUPLE PALESTINIENS
Prof. James' analysis on various issues is generally unbiased, unlike most western mainstream media.
Excellent analysis
Thank you very much!
Do you believe the shift towards Russia in Serbia is a Serbia specific phenomenon or is it in fact related to the rise of the far right in all of Europe with most of these far right parties either supporting Rusia or having clear ties to Rusia and being sponsored by Rusia?
Thanks. Great point. It is really interesting to see how much of the far right is gravitating towards Russia. I think the same is happening in Russia, where this has stronger foundations. But I do also think that wider society is also becoming pro-Russian, for the reasons I outlined.
Greetings from Serbia, as someone who never supported Vucic, nor destructive politicians from the past read Milosevic (nationalist from all sides are to blame for wars), I would like to add few points. Regarding Ukraine, Serbia historicaly had good relations with both Russia and Ukraine. As christians and slavic nations there are many cultural similarities among slavic christian countries and mostly relations among all slavic people are good. Similar to relations with say Germany and Austria. There is another reason why Serbia support Ukraine teritorial integrity and that is because they find the separation of its Kosovo province against the international law, so they can not support the method they are fighting against. Since 2000 Serbia is trying to become EU member, and failure to do so I find in both internal matters of Serbia as well as in lack of will to do so by the EU. However European union has become weaker in last 5 years so I have serious doubt they are willing to admit any new member in the next 20 years (apart from maybe Ukraine, but I doubt that also). People from candidate countries can feel that, and more and more people are becoming eurosceptics, so I personaly have trouble explaining to others why Serbia should join the EU. The problem is not in Serbian ties with Russia, but rather in EU failure to accept Serbia and other candidate countries, willingly or not, I am not certain...
Has Serbia always had good relations with Ukraine?
Ukraine has existed since 1991...
What kind of relations did Serbia have with Ukraine? For Yugoslavia, Ukraine was Russia; for Serbia,Ukraina did not exist in principle!
That is incorrect. For example in Yugoslavian school I have learned that both Russia, Ukraine and other republics are part of USSR. Saying that Ukraine started to exist in 1991 is like saying UK started existing after brexit. Serbia has good relations with Ukraine.
@@DjordjeRancic-iy3jl
Were you able to tell a Ukrainian from a Russian in Yugoslavia?
I don't believe...
@@alexanderhildermann9761Maybe he can't but I can since I speak Russian.
@@milostomic8539 Все украинцы говорят по русски, для 40% украинцев русский язык родной.
2:23 It was a draw, not a defeat.
Made out of all Balkans but only serbs celebrate it 😜
@@user-irj1nxa3cof2z We don't actually celebrate outcome of the Kosobo battle in 1389 (btw modern Turkish historians claim it's THEM losing as they retreated afterwards). Instead we're celebrating the fact that Serbian mentality and character hasn't changed since then. Serbian duke Lazar knew he can't win, he knew he and his army are all gonna die, he HAD a chance to accept cooperation with Ottoman empire (which didn't care about Orthodox Serbia, they were after Catholics to avenge the Crusades) YET Lazar decided to fight for sake of fighting and dignity. And he died doing so. Same thing happened when Hitler offered us to join Axis in 1941. Regardless our king accepting, people wanted to fight a losing battle despite knowing it's an impossible war to win in 1941 so king was overthrown in a coup and Hitler invaded us. Similar thing happened in 1999 when we said to NATO "We don't care who you are and how much stronger you are. Do what you have, we'll keep doing what we want". So to sum it up: we're celebrating continuity of Serbian mentality and character, not the outcome of the battle in 1389 :)
@@nekotamo
You forgot to mention Maria Olivera Lazarević the youngest daughter of Lazar of Serbia and Sultan Bayezid 1 whom she married as a pledge of peace between the Lazarević and Ottoman dynasties ;)
@@user-irj1nxa3cof2z True. Her brother, Stefan Lazarevic (Lazar's son and heir of Serbia) asked her to marry Bayezid 1 because right after Kosovo battle, Hungarians attacked us from the north trying to conquer. Stefan couldn't fight on 2 sides while also realizing there's no use from rest of Europe and as he was a vise politician he correctly realized it makes no sense making alliance with Hungary when in few years Ottomans will come back and conquer us both so he decided to stand on the Ottoman side offering his sister as a bride. In turn, Hungarians stopped attacking right away and also gifted us Belgrade to fix the relations. Olivera, even thou being a Christian wife of a Muslim ruler, was respected and never even forced to convert to Islam yet she helped Serbia a lot as she had influence on Bayazid who became much better with us than with other Christians. Desperate times ask for desperate measures but in 1391 it worked!
@@nekotamo
And Mara Brankovic&Sultan Murad 2’nd ;)
Serbia Russia Greece Romania Orthodox Brotherhood !
Why do EU cares if they dont want us in EU in first place?
This is the whole problem in Serbia. People seem to think that the EU is some body that wants to suck them in for some bad purpose. It isn’t. The EU is about bringing all Europeans together, helping their economies grow, developing cooperation, making it possible to live, work and travel across Europe more easily. Serbia is a European country. It is only natural that the EU members should want to it join the other 27 countries that are already members. But no one is forcing Serbia to join.
@@JamesKerLindsay man youre really naive EU sees entire Balkan as a colony and cheap labor force nothing more
@@nemanjaugljesic1983 Not true. But there we go. Believe what you want. I’m tired of trying to persuade conspiratorially minded Serbs.
@@JamesKerLindsayRussia is European country too...
@@milostomic8539 hard to say for sure, most of Russia's landmass is in Asia but most of the population lives in Europe, cultarally they are closer to other Easter European countries but politically they are much more integrated with Central Asia also one must consider that Russian society is at large hostilely toward Poland,the Baltic states and to a lesser exent Finlad and all those countries are EU members
What it has to do with you guys??
A few small niggles but the only three things of consequence worth pointing out:
1. Serbia/Yugoslavia is/was a major arms producer and exporter. Even in the screen grab from the Times it mentioned these weapons arrived via third parties. I do not think there has been a single conflict since WW2 where Zastava has not (indirectly) supplied both sides, regardless if said conflict has represented any particular matter of national interest for Serbia or Yugoslavia.
2. The UN votes are not a condmenation of Russia, but simply reinforcing the general principle of sovereignty that underpin Serbia's derecognition campaign of Kosovo.
3. Any cooperation with NATO is essentially an attempt to reinforce Res. 1244, which recognises KFOR as the guarantor of Security in Kosovo, by allowing Serbian movements along the border/administrative line without damaging relations with KFOR (particularly useful for Vucic the past few years). Additionally, the continued presence of NATO during this period essentially makes it politically impossible and unnecessary for a Kosovo defence force.
These issues are understood by both Russia and Serbia to carry no value judgements on the war or itself or the alliance between the two countires generally. They cannot specifically be taken to mean alienation from Russia (or China) although it is true Serbia has historically sought to balance east and west and continues to do so. However when push comes to shove Serbia will align with Russia. It important to remember the Non Aligned Movement and estrangement from the Soviet Union was championed by a non Serb (Tito) while the USSR was controlled by a non Russian (Stalin). Serbia also recognizes that any relationship with the West is fundamentally transactional, whereas it shares key national interests with Russia and China.
Can you do a sequel on this about the Bulgaria-Russia special relationship?
ATHLÈTES DU MONDE ENTIER RESTER CHEZ VOUS IL AURAS PAS DE JEUX OLYMPIQUES ET PARA OLYMPIQUES DEUIL MONDIALE UNIVERSEL POUR LE PEUPLE PALESTINIENS
What I found especially fascinating is the remarkable resemblance King Alexander of Yugoslavia has to Novak Djokovic!
СРБИ и РУСИ браћа заувек. ❤❤❤
Tako je Braca zauvek!!!