Sail Life - No power! What will we do? ⚠️
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
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I'm sure Fisher/Panda would still be IGNORING you if you didn't have a popular UA-cam channel.
To be honest I don't think they care that I have a UA-cam channel :)
Yep, it does seems super convenient that after the “never buy a Fisher Panda” video comes out that they magically start to pull their fingers out their butts haha
Yep, too little too late from FP, AFAIC. If I ever need a genset/aircon etc, they'll be last on the list.
@@SailLife And that's a good thing. They shouldn't care who asks, they should serve all customers properly. Hope it gets fixed, it's a conundrum.
@@synthnseq Ditto, and Mads is not the first to mention their after purchase, customer relations.
They make a beautiful compact unit. Sigh!
Mads: open the servo and check the differences with them at the potentiometer or the resistors, the servo travel angle/throw is changed by the resistance to the motor control. There are lots of videos of how to modify servos for specific applications. This info could prove to be significantly helpful should you require to replace one and not be able to get one quickly. Modifying is simple soldering 😊
It’s all about the angle/travel being less or more. A servo tester would be able to help here too. It plugs in and has a knob and using battery power you can easily see the difference of the throw angle. Off the shelf they typically have total travel of approximately 90°.
I was about to post the same suggestion. I have played with RC cars and plains for my hole life. and there is not a lot that you can change... the potentiometer or the resistors is about it. And If you shop about, you will find them even cheaper than that :)
@@FiddlingwithmyWhistle same
Sometimes in hobby robotics we modify them for continuous rotation.
@@codohundo doubtful this is the case for genset governor…
you should add oil some to the cylinder and take the test again. if it goes up you lean towards piston rings. if it doesnt, look for valves or bent rod. also consider doing a leakdown test or pressure test to find where the compression is going
Commenting on this to bump it up. Great diagnostic step to further narrow down the problem without pulling the head.
Using compressed air, you can also pressurize the cylinder at TDC and depending on hissing out of the exhaust, intake, or oil fill cap (crankcase) you can determine where the leaking is.
I love Ava’s energy! And Mad’s is a freaking genius!
Thank you so much! :)
My working theory is that Fisher/Panda also did the keel on your relatives’ catamaran.
LOL 😂
Aah, of course, that explains it!
You are correct
The mythical super duper servo modification is probably just the removal of the angular limitation, so that it can turn 360°. That's done in 2 seconds.
No, I don't think it had anything to do with the range of motion :) I wish I could remember the tech's exact words - heat and memory don't mix ;)
Mads face trying doubles is priceless. The absolute shock!!! Sounds delicious honestly!!!
It was (no joke) one of the best things I have ever showed in my mouth :)
Not sure if you have removed the genset’s head already, but if not, it wouldn’t hurt to pour a bit of oil into the intake manifold… it creates a seal on the valve seats and make the engine start.. not to much oil so it will create a hydrolock. After a few attempts it might start, and after a few seconds of running, the valve seats will be clean from corrosion…. I’ve started many Engines that have been left without starting from years, or just a few moths in marine environment.. hope this helps..
@@svestanciaI agree that a few drops of oil in the intake can help get a reluctant old engine to start if low compression is the reason for the problem.
If I understood Mads correctly, he said that it had no starting issues.
The problem seems to be more that it is not able to maintain rpm under high load conditions, so allowing its output voltage to drop to the point that it triggers a low voltage alarm in the boat’s charge management system, followed by the genset shutting down to protect itself.
I’m honestly a little surprised that the compression measurement at the lower end of Kubota factory spec is enough to cause a significant torque output problem at high rpm to the extent that it is unable to meet a load within its rated performance.
I’m idly wondering whether it is being caused by either a fuel flow restriction somewhere on the feed from the tank, or perhaps a heat buildup issue leading to excessively high intake air temperatures, either of which can impact higher rpm performance quite dramatically.
Anyway, it’s just idle speculation from a retired and slightly bored ex-marine engineer with no specific first-hand experience of Fischer-Panda gensets, but a good few years of keeping the nimble Amps flowing around superyachts while their delightful owners and charterers do their very best to utilise every drop of power (plus a little extra for fun) every minute they’re aboard. 😂
Salud! 🍻
I think Fisher Panda owes you a new gen set. Don't settle for anything less!
I know Mad's followed every step in the instructions. 😁
Fingers crossed :D
I believe few customers will have as an extensive installation log as you Mads. :)
I moved my 3d printer onto my boat about a month ago, and almost on a daily basis I think of something else I want to use it for. Right now I'm printing parts for a window covering system, sliding curtains. Can't wait to see the things you come up with.
Is there any good websites with saved build files that you know of for boats?
@@Gus.1979 The only websites I know of are not specifically for boats. Usually they are just like anime characters and stuff like that. I use SolidWorks to design my own parts.
Mads have you checked the valve clearance. If the valve clearance is too tight it will effect the compression. Before I took the head off I'd check the valve clearance. Hopefully this motor isn't a overhead cam, that can turn into a nightmare when you have to remove the head. The odds are its an over head cam which makes removing and Hopefully just reseating the valves. Just make sure you check the valve guides and seals before reinstalling the head. It's always better to have the valve clearance a little loose then have the clearance to tight. Good luck ,I hope it's a valve clearance issue and not a burnt valve ,cam lope issue or bad compression rings. This should be a warranty issue ,so check first before taking the head off ,on some warranties if you try to fix it instead of a certified mechanic who's authorized to work on your motor they may void the warranty.
Thank you so much for the advice! :) As much as I hate not having a working genset it is a good learning opportunity :)
I mean 26 bars could be on cold engine and 35 (?) on hot engine? 26 bars sounds more than enough. Then I would first check the injector opening pressure, in relation to the black smoke. No clogging or blocked air intake? @@SailLife
The only thing that make different those “band modified servos” it’s that they open it and cut a pin on the main gear that make it stop at certain angle (90, 180 or 270 degrees), and that modification allows it to make 360 degree continuous rotation. You can open the one in the generator and modify or directly transfer the components to the new servo
We've got the world's smallest electric pressure washer which comes in really handy when the deck needs cleaning. Low pressure is not an issue because it doesn't need any pressure to run, it can be used just dropping a feed hose into a five gallon bucket of water. Since it is high-pressure and low volume it really sips the water. You could easily clean the deck with only 5 gallons or much less. After cleaning the deck with the saltwater deck wash it only takes a gallon or two to do a good rinse. Usually we just wait for rain however.
Low compression on a new diesel is often the fault of inadequate break-in and resultant glazed cylinder walls. Since you seemed to have issues almost right away with this little Fisher Price generator that would be my first guess.
Fisher-Price! That's great!
As you have compressed air, perhaps you could perform a leak down test. It would tell you if you have bad inlet or exhaust valves or ring blow by.
I think we'll pause the genset fun for now and resume when we're in the US but that sounds like a great tip. Thank you :)
And while you're at it check the clearance between valve and tappet before doing major surgery like removing the cylinder head.
@@SailLifeOnan or the likes could get some great ROI by sending a free or cost offer for replacing with one of their models. FP damage done, I'm pretty sure Keith on Zara rubbishes FP early on in their cat ownership.
@@JR-ii4lq I tend to agree. I looked through the owners manual and the gen set seems a bit “Goldilocks” to me. You mustn’t run it with too light a load or it will soot up and you mustn’t load it too much or it will over heat. For that sort of money I would expect it to be absolutely bombproof.
@@kevinmills5293 Mads' due diligence is off the scale, so is his patience! All's the more pity for situations like with FP. Sure they've alternate power supply but Sheesh, for the coin those things cost the bare minimum of expect is competent customer service - no excuses!
Classiest marina stay I've ever had, was a new and clean marina. Not very rich in facilities, but hosting a large racing fleet overnight.
And they had delivered the morning newspaper to every cockpit! That's a little touch of class that only deluxe hotels have ever bothered with.
Hi, they give you a gym for the lack of walking to the trash can , to help keep you fit . A lovely marina really makes a change . Thanks for your video .😉👍👍
Haha, that is funny :D
Hi Mads. Currently installing Eberspacher hydronic heater in my sailboat and your series on that a few years ago was great. One thing I wanted to pass on, I found a prebuilt valve that does what your 'contraption' that you made to fill the system does. It's a Webstone 48613. Has two hose fittings with valves and an in-line ball valve to isolate the loop. Thanks again for the videos
I think the Steelpan only counts as the one instrument invented in the 20th century if you don't include the ones that use electricity such as the Theramin (1928) or various synthesizers like the vocoder (early voice auto-tune), or ones that aren't known about or thought of as being unique instruments, such as the Vibraphone (1916) or Ondes Martenot (1928).
The Steelpan is the only pure musical instrument invented in the 20th Century.
I would not have had the patience you have in dealing with that gen-set. Your experiences are helping me learn so many dos and don'ts that I am very grateful. Thank you. I hope your gen-set troubles go away.
This is my diagnoses for your Gen set from 2300 miles away. I have seen this symptom many times before. When stationed overseas and running off generator power.
This is called Wet stacking. Wet stacking is detectable by the presence of a black ooze around the exhaust manifold, piping and turbocharger, if fitted. It can be mistaken for lubricating oil in some cases, but it consists of the "heavy ends" of the diesel fuel which do not burn when combustion temperature is too low. Additionally, wet stacking can result in a build up of diesel fuel in the engine which does not combust due to the low temperature in the engine. This results in a reduced fuel economy. This fuel leaks through the cylinders and dilutes the engine oil. If not frequently changed, this diluted oil can lead to increased wear on the cylinder and premature engine failure
The major cause of this problem is you have a 5kW gen set and you are really only ever drawing 2kW. and the gen set is running to cool.
Now the fix there are two ways to do this the hard and expensive way. Tear it down and rebuild it. but it will be fixed
The easy way if it is not to far gone. get on the hook in a bay by your self. Run you battery bank to low cut off. Turn of gen set and every item on the boat on to get the output of the gen set to 4.5kW. you want to get the gen set as hot as possible without over heating it. run it at this state until the exhaust runs clear.
What you are trying to do is a sustained load test to burn off those heavy ends.
You two are a riot and make my Sundays so much better!
Thank you so much :D
The power of a youtube influencer on a Panda bear ❤
Great video 2x👍
Enjoyed my morning coffee at that cafe. Chag is a great location.
Nice to have Ava back!
Consider using a borescope to look directly at the exhaust valve. You can get a cheap USB scope for $20.
How do you guys not have at least 1 million subs! enjoyed this weeks' content. (btw, buy a Cummins genset next time).
Mads expression eating finger food it’s good wishing all the time for his knife and fork lol😂
Great episode. Let me have a guess, the genset spun backwards as it was stopping, sucked a bit of cooling water back into the cylinder and rusted the cylinder wall while you were waiting for a response from Fischer Panda.
Thomas from the channel sailing with Thomas (sy be free) also thinks that Fisher Panda can't be repaired without a professional mechanic....
Love the new trailer btw
Tilting at windmills is not a common expression for most people. For those unfamiliar with the tern, it comes from Miguel de Cervantes' novel Don Quixote and means "attacking imaginary enemies."
It's a really great saying :) I wish it was more common. It often cools me down a bit if I'm frustrated :)
Also the source of the name of the band "They Might Be Giants" which is a response Quixote gives when someone tries to point out that the windmills are windmills.
I didn’t know that!
It not just used to mean "attacking imaginary enemies". It can also mean "extremely intensive activity that is useless, and pointless".
Before you pull the head do a leakdown test. The compression test on its own really don't tell anything. It is basically a test for your battery and starter motor. It's a good test if you have multiple cylinders and you can compare them. What you need to know is the valves seal or not. And to test that a leakdown test is what you need.
I love it when Ava does the sound effects.
You two compliment each other so well ❤
😊 thank you
Hi Mads, before you take off the head, would it be possible to get a bore scope and see the state of the cylinder? Seems like an easier option.
Maybe :) Fischer Panda jumped straight to taking the head off. There might be a good reason for that :) Once we get back into genset mode in the US I'll check up on it :)
@@SailLife I use a small flexible LED-tipped flashlight to inspect piston-wash on my ancient 2-stroke jetski motors. Run the piston down to minimum stroke and you might be able to see the walls at least.
hi my first thoughts are you are having fuel starvation issues , check that you are getting a good fuel flow and that the filters are not chocked (depending how often you use the gen set you could be suffering from water fuel interface fungus in the tank )that will fill the filters with black crap ,no or little flow
PRUSA is a great printer and has great support! The only downside is that it isn't enclosed so you could run some of the more UV resistant plastics like ABS AND ASA. PLA is good for interior things and is quite rigid but can be brittle. PETG is more resistant to shock loads. I wouldn't recommend either for load bearing components on a boat. If your nozzle goes to 280C or above, it is well worth trying some ASA, which is a big brother to ABS and easier to process. It is heat resistant and UV resistant. It's use in car interiors and under the hood so it would be great in the engine compartment as well as anywhere else. Have fun! I've been printing for 12 years. :)
Great to see Ava back on board. I didn't realise how much I missed her tours. I might just move to Trinidad. You forgot to mention the very bad thing about that marina. It is 15,987 kilometres away from where my boat currently is. Or 8623 nautical miles 😊
You might consider a fun tool for safety wiring which you pull and it instantly does a nice twisted wire.
It might be worth opening both of the servos to see if the extent of the modification is just a new set of metal gears (the nylon ones can strip teeth, so spares + upgrades are easily available). It would still be cheaper to buy an off the shelf servo+metal gear upgrade, in comparison to the cost of the FP upgraded version.
That's a great idea! I wish I had put that in the video :) Next time we're on the genset topic I'll do that :)
I love the chemistry & interaction you guys have together.
Good head gaskets can be reused, especially for fault-finding, keep digging!
I'm glad Fisher Panda has finally woke up and smelled the coffee. I can neither confirm nor deny they may have been "nudged" to do so by email. As Louis Brandeis said “sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants”
That is a great saying! I will have to add that one to my list :D
@@SailLife Which one? The confirm nor deny or sunlight is...........?
This is the best sail video channel (the logo is great)! how annoying, there are no downsides , just a lot of information. esp. Genset saga !
Wow, thanks!
Entertaining episode despite the lack of man glitter ✨. Now I must find me a Double.
Love steel drums, but they aren't the only new instrument invented in the 20th century. There's the electric keyboard, the Theremin, synthesizer, the Banjo Ukulele, the electric guitar, the Stoessel Lute, the drum machine, The Tonette, The Cristal Baschet, and those are from just the first half and not even a complete list.
Hi mads. Not sure if it’s been mentioned already but compression testing would be on the lower side until your generator engine has fully run in.
regarding the servo, i highly doubt that they are changing a off the shelf component like that. It would be super fun to open the two of them and compare.
I have no reason to doubt the tech that told me about it :) I'll open it up the next time I make a genset related video :)
I think if the generator issue from reversion you would see evidence of water in the exhaust manifold back flowing toward the valves. Check fuel pressure, leak down test. These two should tell a lot. If fuel pressure is good and no leak down results (ie air escaping through exhaust or intake (valves) or no air through crank case ) then check valve settings. Exhaust valve may not be opening enough & needs to be re-adjusted.
You need twisting pliers! That way you make sure that both wires are twisted around each other, rather than one being wrapped around the other.
As you won't need aviation grade equipment, you'll find them for less than $20. I drilled holes in wooden plugs and had them attached close to through holes etc. Just that bit of extra safety if something were to start leaking.
You're probably familiar, but regarding the 3D-printer - Don't even try ABS. If you need parts, use PETG. It's almost as easy to print as PLA, but a bit more tight on toleranses, and often more stringy. I made a lot of custom mounts for hardware on the boat (4G antennas on 1"-14 mounts etc) and they lastet for years sitting in the sun. I tried slamming them with a hammer, and it left a dent. PLA would shatter. ABS is for injection molding and you can't trust a 3D print with it.
If you had a compression gauge you could put a bit of oil in the cylinder to see if the compression goes up before removing the head.
You need to get a dry box for your printer filament. Almost all filament is hydroscopic and once went it will cause problems as the water will off gas during the print. I would recommend getting something like a plastic box with a seal. Then add a desiccant you can 'recharge' like silica beads that you can 'bake' to remove water. If you wanted to go 'pro' you might also think about getting a pop up tent enclosure for the printer. That would allow you to control ambient heat which will mean you can print things like ABS. It would also allow you to capture and vent the fumes. ABS, Nylon, and some of the other stronger printing materials will do better with enclosure and fume extraction. Being on a boat you might want to print with something like glass filled nylon as it has very different strength and heat resistance.
It would probably make more sense to buy one of the filament dryers that you can just print directly from while it is operating.
@@netpackrat yeah there are many options the point of being in a boat is not something you can ignore.
Mads and Ava.... Your videos are terrific! A project you might consider adding to your list for the U.S.A.... Check/replace your lithium batteries... They are several years old already... No sense being stranded somewhere! Cheers!
I believe that they are LiFePO4 batteries, so they will be just fine for 20 years. They aren't LiPO batteries, which you would never want on a boat because of the fire danger.
Hey Mads I'm sure you have already thought of it but has your mechanic checked the Valve Clearances ? As and engine beds in the clearances will close and you could have a riding valve causing low compression . Love the " Oh Glorious Sanding " and detail boat repairs and build . Cheers from Down Under
I enjoyed Ava's tour of the marina facilities. Thank you.
I know nothing about FP or your genset but after watching Athena's entire refit i will confidently say, if there was a problem with install, its theirs. i don't know of a more meticulous channel for diy.
Mads I had the same problem with my single cylinder genset but mine would not even start. Lucky for me my engine was a yanmar L70N engine and after redoing my valves and head gasket it still wouldn’t run so I took the whole genset out took the motor off. Trintrac are the yanmar agricultural agents in Trinidad and i took my motor to them and they stripped it and fitted new rings and valves and head gasket and it was the cheapest thing we did in Trinidad 😊 cost $250 and a week to do. We found that running the unit even for an hour a week seemed to solve problems. You get humidity in the exhaust system with a wet exhaust system and if the exhaust valve is open and you don’t run the genset for a few months the rings can seize dropping the compression ration.
MORE OUTTAKESS !!! Love themmm!!!
It surely went quickly from loving the Panda, over to "off with its head!"
Stay safe and we'll see you next week.
Trinidad was my Caribbean cruising base for about 5 years at the turn of the centaury and it was a fantastic experience. Stayed at TTYA
I have really come to enjoy it here. I could easily see coming back not just to do boat work :)
Lovely marina tour, Ava. 😎 Doubles look amazing! (Glad those F/P folks are finally listening. They should just replace the thing.) 😎💕💕💕🥰
Best part of my week. Thanks guys!❤❤❤❤
Love the tour Ava! That marina looks amazing 😮
It really is! :)
This episode makes me really miss my sailboat.
Loving the longer beard, Mads! Envious I can't grow one! :)
Thanks! I'm a bit nervous because the last time I tried growing it out it got kind of unruly when it was a little bit longer than now. I'm wondering if that will happen again :)
About Fisher Panda. I highly doubt that they would have done anything unless visibility of Mads videos. And this makes me a bit frustrated for others in similar situations with companies like Fisher Panda. But I have to raise my hat for Mads for playing this card very discretely. He has tried to solve the issue many, many times in background and as discreet warning to viewers he told about experience with them. Like Mads is saying machines fail, but bad customer service is unacceptable.
My opinion is that it is Very Unlikely that they modify that servo inside. That servo works correctly just the way that it is -- and any modification would diminish its function (in most cases). I think you're hearing them say you can't so they won't lose sales where they make money on just handling the spare parts (which sometimes is more profit than the sale of the actual product).
you might try adding some SEA FOAM or transmission fluid to some diesel , unload the gen set and run it at high speed , this might get rid of some carbon on valves and rings etc.
I have those little pliers, they work great.
I love them! Now I just need a pair of tiny needle nose ;)
What a really lovely marina, who wants to move from there? It’s so cheap and beautiful, the facilities are the best I’ve ever seen.
It's not a bad place! The only downside is that there are no groceries near by (only a problem if you don't have a car) :)
Many years ago there was a tv show showing how they made the drums out of oil drums
I can only imagine the incredibly awkward feeling of seeking help from people of whose product you've said "Friends don't let friends by Fisher Pandas." I chuckled while watching...!
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it :)
Thumbs down to using a soft shackle on your staysail. That might be considered your storm sail, or at least windy day sail, and soft shackles might not be a great use in that situation. But I'm also being picky. Nice having Ava back.
Have you checked the generator oil level? Your symptoms could be caused by a very high oil level (probably due to a diesel leak into the sump). If the oil level is above the crankshaft big end level (crank) bad things happen as you describe. Have a close look at the dipstick for almost clear diesel above the full mark.
Hi guys, I can’t remember the UA-cam channel, but they had one of these too and had nothing but trouble with it Maybe it is a common fault and I think in the end they just changed it over to a different brand because that is one of the things you need to rely on and there’s like your main engine is gonna have a good one
That sweetness made me like and subscribe again!
Thanks :D
Ice ice baby !!
If compression is out of spec then a leak down test can determine exactly what is the cause. Don’t take head off u til you know.
The valves mite have seated more witch can make them not close proper. Reset valve clearance first.
Thanks for the tip :)
MAD... Try putting a small amount of oil in the cylinder of the Panda... If the pressures come up the rings on the piston may be your issue in they stay the same its more likley the valves...
Women are always right !
I like the new introduction.
Wish you would have brought in the sound from the steel drums, that would have been cool!
Great episode guys, those 'doubles' look nearly impossible to eat with any level of decorum
I think that is a good description :D
Mailed it! the signoff of "See you"
Thank you :D
I see you guys have left that awesome marina for a mooring, that place was wonderful. Still hoping to see y'all this summer in nc! Any new leads on a new project?
Ahoy Danny :) No leads yet but I think we'll have more luck once we're in the US :) Leaving for Martinique tomorrow :)
I enjoyed your hamburger eating video short but couldn’t figure out a way to respond so I’ll share here. I lived in Portugal for a while and people there don’t eat many things, including hamburgers with their hands. We went one evening to the Hard Rock Cafe to get a hamburger and were seated next to a mother and a young boy about ten. We got our hamburgers and the boy had ordered one also and his mother kept shaking her head no indicating it was not OK for him to eat with his hands. Long after we were finished with ours he was still struggling to finish his and we heard her say, “oh OK.” To which he smiled and finished his by eating his. So somewhere in Portugal there walks a badly compromised boy who was led astray by my wife and I. We were amused by the whole thing and hope the boy grew up to be a fine man in spite of our poor example 😂
Jup was in this Marina 15 years ago, only saling boats :-) and not that many :-)
That's true. We have heard from a couple of people that there used to be a lot more transient boats here.
Hay Athena.. great channel.. watched all. I had a Honda 1970 250cc dirt bike. I would crank the throttle medium with normal acceleration results. If I cranked hard, the engine would stutter and die. The issue was a clogged muffler. Back pressure was a definite killer. Check your thru hull port, maybe clogged?
... I once heard someone say Friends don't let Friends buy Fischer Panda .... I think that he may have been right.
That does sound familiar ;)
Hi Mads, have you enabled in the Victron "weak AC", this can be found in VE configure, charger tab. this may of caused excess loading on the generator.
No :) The Fischer Panda manual very specifically says to not enable that. I wish it was something as simple as that :)
Thanks superman.
Checking the VALVE clearances ? Use an endoscope to see inside the cylinder .... ( first i had a feeling that less air (or too much fuel ) is getting in then needed ... black smoke. )
Det sidste klip fik mig til at grine højlydt i mit eget selskab. Thanks for great content every week.
Tusind tak :)
Fix the genset in SXM or USVI, you can get parts flown in as fast as 2 days and delivered to the dock.
You may need new valves or piston rings. Or the cylinder is scored and you have a chunk of recyclable aluminum. If you’re lucky it’s a head gasket failure.
new word learned.... amenities.
😁
ked in Trinidad for 3 years. I miss doubles so much.
I totally understand! :)
Ooo! Imma look up how to make that fooood😋