Ranking the TOP 10 Flex Support Players of ALL TIME - Plat Chat Top 10 (feat. Custa)
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
- Esports podcast specializing in feeding and Overwatch.
Featuring the Overwatch League's Brennon "Bren" Hook, Scott "Custa" Kennedy, Jonathan "Reinforce" Larsson, and Connor "Avast" Prince.
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Custa - / custa
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#OWL2021 #Overwatch #Overwatch2
- - - - - - -
0:00 - Intro/Disclaimer
5:13 - Rank 10
9:58 - Rank 9
17:47 - Rank 8
26:39 - Rank 7
36:40 - Rank 6
43:32 - Rank 5
50:16 - Rank 4
1:03:26 - Rank 3
1:11:15 - Rank 2
1:18:43 - Rank 1
1:35:53 - Overall Rankings Discussion - Ігри
Putting Iris over Jjonak is the most absurd take I may have ever heard from Plat Chat, an incredible achievement. Putting the first seasons MVP who literally defined the entire year and played at a pretty top level for the next 3 seasons under a dude who played Bap well for one season is so smooth-brained that it’s unbelievable.
I agree this is truly an L list
Avast is acting like season 2 jjonak was bad the team was 3rd the whole season it was still an incredible season
@@pretzelpop78 right like they literally went 22-6 in the regular season lol
Jjonak was top tier for 2 seasons and was really only good at zen and ana, Iris and his team got way further this year, and he was very flexible so it’s understandable
@@cov3rt0p16 how does it make sense? This list is all time owl not just one season.
I'm still not over Alarm's passing. the fact a kid his age died is, obviously, the saddest part, but the whole league feels his loss. a great competitor and lovely person, and easily one of the best in the role; and, imo, one of the best in the entire game. RIP
best in the entire game?? ok settle down now.
@@suck4599 who was better support lol he carried games solo on support lol
Wow that hit me hard. I've been away and off the internet for the past 6 months and had no idea of his passing.
Avasts Jjonak take should be criminal. He is the only player in the entire league to play every single match his team has played, won MVP and the only non dps to do so, leagues above the rest in 2018 and defined the role, and that style of aggressive zen, NYXL, came 3rd in 2018/2019/2020 with Jjonak. And Avast had him below Iris, who has played 1 season, 80% of it on just Bap, and not Atlanta didnt even win, they came 2nd in 2021. This man broke his own rating system multiple times, i cant believe his takes this episode were worse than Brens
very very true
Agree. Except please don’t bring Bren into this…… Avast takes are way worse.
THIS GUY PUT FARAWAY THAT HIGH IN A LIST OF GOATS
I agree that its silly to put iris over jjonak. Not defending avasts take at all. But id probably put him 5-7th place. Ya he was good in S1... but he didnt even win a championship when he was at his peak. And then with each subsequent season quickly fell off against better newer flex supports
Not /2020, NYXL did shit in 2020, and Jjonak has only looked top tier in the first two seasons, pretty average since then
I really think Avast has no idea the difference between "Best of All Time" and "who would I draft right now"
He just made power rankings
I mean like in retrospect 2018 was pretty laughable as far as team quality compared to the more recent seasons and I think jjonak is a good metric to show that. Like he hasn’t gotten any worse, but the past three years we’ve watched so so so many flex supports surpass him
@@digancreel6427 but isn't Jjonak 2018 success the reason why flex support improved that much?
@@digancreel6427 it can’t be helped when his team is buns, jjonak still top 5 all time at least cmon now
@@MastaHicks yea what jjonak was doing was literally unprecedented
All of those custa neptuno takes from last episode are 10000x more sensible than anything avast said this episode. Blizzard forum tier opinions coming from a former pro
Avast on JJONAK - YOU CAN'T ONLY LOOK AT ONE YEAR
Avast on 1ris - HE WAS AMAZING IN THIS ONE YEAR
Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black? Like when comparing players in different time periods you have to look at them compared to their field. Season 1 players were innovating while Season 4 players had time to just learn and perfect their innovation. Like they didn't have to waste their time to figure things out they could just come in and do what was set as "standard" for them. I think that is forgotten in the rankings when looking at older players. Sure the talent might be higher now but that's only because the predecessors figured things out for their successors.
Also we can't act like Jjonak is bad still. There's a reason Seoul picked him up first basically. He also was amazing season 2. NYXL made it to like 3rd place with him playing 100% of the time. Even when NYXL has been lack luster he's always been good. Same with Mano
nah, if iris did that well in S1 he wouldn't be on the list. His entire point is that to the be the best, you have to compete at a very high level in the current day, because other people have caught up to you and you are no longer unstoppable. It's not the best way to do the list imo, but within his own system it's logically sound
@@CubaneMusic maybe. But Jjonak hasn't really fallen off. He's still a fantastic player. Even in his "down" years he was amazing on his team. Like 2021 he was still great. 2020 was a little down. But he was still looking good. Was 2018 his best year? Sure. But that doesn't mean he just fell off the earth.
@@CubaneMusic The point here is that Iris ONLY had one season (not even that; he had 0.8). So who's to say he won't fall off in a couple of years as well? It is utterly ridiculous to compare a much older professional esport player's current state against a new player who's probably playing at his peak.
@Music³ If 1ris played like jjonak season 1 and innovated and carried his team in a 40 game season the conversation would be different. I think that's also forgot, season 1 was 40 games. Jjonak was dominant for all 40 games.
Custa's is fun yet every word, point, argument is so professional.
In these few months he has become my favourite streamers, his match reviews are informative and very fun, and I've laughed so hard during his late unranked to GM tank and dps series
Avast with the negative brain take of Jjnonak at 10th place of all time
I almost puked
Jjonak defined the way you play flex support. The entire career of all the other players on this list was built on the foundation that he laid in season 1. Putting him anything below top 3 is criminal.
10:05 as an audio listener, I can confirm that you did indeed troll me, I almost swerved out of my lane when I heard "Unkoe" lol
Avast with the horrible take. Teams built strats around killing jjonak because he was the hard carry. His whole team played around him. Avast loses points for this it's all time not just the last two years
And on top of that he's countering his own arguments with his own arguments and he's still trying to defend himself.
@@TheNerd true the list was strange. Alarm was my #1 his big play potential on top of being insanely consistent was nuts.
He’s off the cracky wacky
Also people act like he completely fell off since season 1. He didn't. NYXL were beasts season 2 still. They made it to 3rd and Jjonak played 100% of those games. Unlike some other players were swapped around. There's a reason he's 1 of very few season 1 players still in the league. And he was picked up super fast this off season by Seoul. That should say something I think.
For *one* year.
Avast: viol2t can only play bap, zen, and Ana.
Also Avast: Iris is top 10 because he played one character well one season.
we haven’t seen iris play that other heroes due to comps the reign liked to run. We’ve seen Violet’s moira and bap. They’re terrible. The shock were literally replacing Violet with Architect on Ana, AND were putting twilight over violet most of this season, and moving violet to brig. I’ve watched a lot of violet brig, and lemme tell you, it’s not pretty.
@@NoName-gw4kp violets bap is very good and his brig doesn’t matter he shouldn’t be required to play the brig that should be your main support 99% of the time. Violet was the best main support for a year and a half and has had one disappointing season. Iris has played bap impressively for one season but wasn’t even top 3-4 baps.
meanwhile Jjonak who is unarguably best Zen to ever exist, and a great Ana too, who was crowned MVP and has been playing at a consistent high level for 4 years.. 10th spot. Like, WHAT
@@NoName-gw4kp WTF are you saying you are out of ur mind bro viol2t has one of the best baps in the league how do you say its terrible wtf
@@NoName-gw4kp what the fuck are you smoking? Viol2ts Bap is bad? Man was literally the best Bap for nearly 2 years? His Zen is probably the best in the leagues rn and they weren't putting Twilight over Viol2t
Wow, the disrespect for Jjonak, that’s just nuts to me. How can you have him at 10?! Avast must’ve hit his head before the show or something. Also the most flexible, best mechanics, for multiple years…Alarm would be the clear #1 flex support during OW1.
Avast's takes have been terrible in all roles
@@Tateygb I agree. He’s been off the goop.
Avast never fails to have bad takes
God that viol2t take really was just the worst thing I heard all year he should be fined
title is top 10 players of ALL TIME and the guy just looks at the most recent season top 10 and does a copy paste
It's almost unbearable lmao, this is the GOAT debate, not the 2021 flex support rankings
Avast outta line in this ep
Jjonak 10th in a "Greatest of ALL TIME" list is criminal.
Also Avast: Jjonak has been good literally every year in the league....you think because NYXL had a down year in 2020, with a bunch of mitigating factors possibly going on as well that he wasn't good on NYXL? Because he was. him and Mano were the bright spots in 2020 for NYXL. And in 2021 he looked great again, in a rebuilding year, with a bunch of rookies pretty much, he still looked great. I'm not a Jjonak simp, but 10 is outrageous, especially if you're ranking Farway over him. =/
Farway with 4 hours in the league is just better than Jjonak playing for 4 years clearly.
@@BigShrimpin_ that’s actually outrageous
Avast bro wtf... "you cant take one year of 2018 and count it over the other 3 years" BRO, YOU'RE TAKING ONE YEAR OF 2021 IRIS OVER THE THREE YEARS HE WASNT EVEN IN THE LEAGUE, AT LEAST JJONAK PLAYED ALL 4 YEARS AND HIS 2018 IS MILES ABOVE IRIS' 2021
Avast didn't make a best of all time list, he made a best of 2021 list
@@hamk0spe he even said that Jjonak is probably still a top 10 player without 2018, and yet when including 2018 he only gave him 10….
@@silverose9238 and he ranked jjonak low because he's not as good on Moira and Bap, but had no problem with the fact that Iris only played Baptiste in 2021...what a joke
@@hamk0spe Yup and he conveniently forgot Jjonak is great at Ana too. Yet he doesn't fault Violet for being pretty shit at most of the heroes but still exists in no1. Like, what's he smoking
Iris being top 10 of ALL OF OVERWATCH 1 after 1 season on 1 hero is insane to me……
Johnny said that Twilight barely played in season 3 which is true. However, one of the few games he played was the countdown cup finals and he had GIGA IMPACT. He was one of the big reasons they won that very close game. That title really belongs in Twilights trophy cabinet.
Remember when he made that nade flank back to back on oasis
@@Niko257x AND HE DID IT TWICE omfg I almost died that night.
I actually agree with Avast putting Twilight at 2. He didn't get nearly as much playtime as the other flex supports, but when he did play he nearly always carried the game. S2 Titans wouldn't have got nearly as far without Twilight's Ana or Zen, In S3 Twilight won them the Countdown Cup and S4 he was by far the most consistent support on the Shock.
I still don’t think it’s fair to put him above jjonak, violet and izyaki cus he just hasn’t played enough compared to these guys who have had seasons where they play all the time and carry consistently
In the end it is a matter of what component you are rating most important. The main problem for Twilight is that he has only one season as the main flex support on his team. In S3 and S4 he has the same problem like Smurf, Super and obviously Violet. He is splitting time with another player and that makes the people believe him to be a specialist. Like Super is only regarded a Reinhardt specialist even though he can play any main tank and some off tanks to a very high level. Violet is also called a Zenyatta/Baptiste Specialist because Shock switches to Twilight for Ana.
I personally think there is little that speaks for Twilight at 2nd place. I think you have to rate Jjonak higher because no flex support ever reached such a clear Number 1 status in a whole season in his role ever again after Jjonak in Season 1. I think you have to rate Violet higher because in the only season they didnt split time he won the Championship against the team of Twilight and it wasnt even close...also Shock decided to play Violet on most heroes over Twilight in both seasons. I think you should rate Izayaki higher then Twilight simply because he has to really good seasons on Shanghai and won the title...granted he had a bad Season 2 and i think it is very much up for debate how much he improved and how much he just gets carried by an incredible team and one of the best main supports in the league.
To me the highest you could place Twilight is 3rd...and i would actually place him probably 5th.
@@teufox842 The issue with Jjonak is the same as if they do a hitscan ranking, do you put Ans over Carpe, Diem or Lip in greatest hitscan cause Ans had 1 season when he was so much better than every hitscan player. Same issue with Jjonak he had a insane S1 but then got overtaken by other flex supports.
@@getmemedon494 I agree that this is a difficult decision but to be frank...if you look at pure hitscan its pretty obvious that Ans has to be the Top. He played 1 season and demolished the competition. The last season cant be counted to be frank...he came back from valorant half way through the season into an anti hitscan meta. Carpe has been near the Top since the start of the league but he also hasnt won anything...he should be pretty high up the list but i dont think you can argue he should be number 1 because to be frank...he never was THE best...but always one of the best.
Same
I think Plat Chat are severely undervaluing the ability to be a standalone on the peak in earlier years of the pro scene. Sure there is a ton of high competition and incredibly skilled players now, but lets not forget that most of them only got to that immense skill level because others like Jjonak pioneered that level and showed the way, showed it was possible and something that flex support players should strive for. He showed what ultimate greatness on that role looks like, and that's why people have been working so hard since then to reach that level, because Jjonak proved it was possible and worth the investment. It's easier to build upon what has already proven to be great, than being the one who has to prove greatness with no one to learn from. Jjonak did what no one ever has done before, not even close. He wasn't even just the best flex support at his time, he was the most talked about player in the entire pro scene for years, full stop. And he reached that level without being able to look at others who were greater than him, to boost his own play. Everyone after him have been able to look up to players like him, see his innovation, and learn from him.
And Jjonak has not fallen off a rock since his peak. He has still seen incredibly consistent value from himself and the teams he has played on. He is pure and simply THE force to be reckoned with. And he is still the best Zen to have ever existed. He literally invented the hyper-impact flex support style, and he damn near perfected it too. To have him anywhere else than top 3 is madness imo. I'd only rank Izayaki and Alarm alongside him from the fact that they flex better on other roles, but they still don't have that peak impact that Jjonak does/has had.
There should be a completely different ranking for tracer imo. She’s a character that both hitscan and flex dps can cover and she has been the most important character in overwatch 1, except for maybe d.va but most flex tanks would be rated based by dva i imagine
And its often been a specialist hero...for example i would probably rate Striker as by far the best Tracer OWL ever saw...but would probably not say he is the best hitscan or flex dps player.
I'll expect Cr0ng in the offtank tier list, even if he only played sigma at a stellar level (he was nuts overall, but his sigma was on another fucking level)
I don't agree with Avast, but I do like that he's willing to disagree with people and bring up interesting points. I hate his JJonak ranking, though I do actually see the justification for Izayaki as #1.
I don't mind that he disagrees and is willing to say it, but it's his attitude and inconsistency in his standards that bother me. His argument for someone being good in one take is the exact same reason another person is bad. Again, I LIKE that he brings a different opinion to the table, but off all the guys here his opinion get's less weight for me due to his vastly greater number of inconsistent standards (they all do this, but Avast does it as much as the rest of them put together)
I can’t see iris on this list tbh. His bap and moira were good this season but when he played ana and zen he looked off and a bit uncomfortable. I think he’s heavily overrated even on bap like everyone said he was the best bap in the league but shu fielder alarm and izayaki were so much better than him on bap
I dont understand avast's argument about violets moira when he won s2 playoffs as moira AND played a lot of moira in season 3 playoffs in "zombie comp" and regular season when shock played rush with super rein. Yeah s4 his moira wasnt good but the entire shock had issues in moira comps, but he improved at moira to playoffs.
Literally typed this same comment then came down and saw this
Had the exact same thought lol 30 second Col in Season 2 playoffs. It’s way more common now, yeah, but back then doing this was kind of mindblowing. I always thought Moira was one of Viol2t’s better heroes.
exactly, viol2t’s Moira was probably best in league s2 and s3
No idea. I guess since Viol2t sometimes comes off as an all aim no brain player they just assume his moira is bad because that’s a decision making hero. Cause they are too lazy to actually watch vods. It definitely wasn’t bad.
@@WaakikiTheGoat His point was that his moira was bad this season which it absolutely was. I wouldn't say Viol2t is a lock number one neccessarily but Avast not having him Top 3 is criminal lol. His Jjonak take is worse imo since Ir1s had like one season where he was really good and if we're taking single season peaks as the defining factor Jjonak is number 1 without argument. He should have been like number 5 probably at least.
Am I crazy or misremembering Viol2t had a pretty good Moira? I know he had some questionable plays on her this season but I thought I remembered him being really good on her last year
Edit: Avast attacking him over his lack of flexibility and his "Bad Moira" when he literally had Iris over JJONAK and he only played Bap is making my blood boil lmfao just the worst take I think I've ever heard
i remember that one game in season 3 on Anubis where he built col in literally 40 seconds. and he played really good in the lucio moira meta
Same here I remember him being crazy on moira. Idk where the slander is coming from. Even in June Joust season 4 he was great.
I can’t even take avast seriously after that Jjonak argument
Every single one of avasts jjonak takes hurts my brain
Extra weight for the grand finals? Good point, let's get Boombox in there
Creative too
Faraway above JJonak is just insane. You're going to pick a still unproven rookie with FOUR HOURS in the league over the s1 freak of nature that still performs at a top tier to this day??
Jjonak at 4 is a war crime
Avast is a war criminal
Nah Avast having faraway over Jjonak is insane
No fucking way lmao I haven't gotten that far yet but he didn't even play...
Viol2t won twice and was considered one of the main factors for those wins. No matter what you can argue, he was what his team needed when they proved no one else was better two years in a row. Jjonak got snubbed for sure tho. Flex support as a super star role was cemented by his dominance so I think he’s a strong argument for second.
violet basically plays bap and zen and maybe brig. Thats not mvp for me
@@daro2404 Jjonak nearly exclusively played Zen, was he not MVP in 2018? If you say no you’re high. Just because a player only plays a few hero’s doesn’t mean shit. Especially when they play Zen and Bap which are two of the best and most popular heros in League. Nearly always fitting in the meta throughout league history.
holy crap I have previously agreed with avast and his takes but holy sh1t this episode and his pepega takes makes me mald hard
Agreed, usually I agree with him but this episode it felt like he freaked out a ton trying to defend his lists which I feel like he doesn't usually do and not putting Jjonak higher on his list is just dumb
At 23:24 Bren predicts Goats Comp will return in 2029
I agree for once with avast on the twilight debate. Twilight is giga chad status
I’ll admit I’m a massive Jjonak fan and I’m obviously not an analyst but I think Avast’s take on Jjonak is blasphemy. Yes Jjonak’s last couple seasons haven’t been great but I think it’s safe to say that’s not his fault. Look at every top team in OWL currently (Shanghai, Gladiators, Dallas, Atlanta, Shock, etc). The rosters are stacked to the tits from top to bottom at every position with also a top tier flex-support player. NYXL are literally the definition of mediocre for a roster with a top-tier flex-support player in Jjonak. Think about the game plan differences when teams play against the Dragons, Shock, Dallas compared to NYXL..it’s completely different. Every single team that plays against NYXL their game plan is to focus Jjonak “so dame hard” that the game is unplayable for him because they know the roster isn’t good and he’s obviously the legend Jjonak. Those same teams aren’t making game plans doing that against IZaYaKI, Viol2t, Shu, Ir1s, Fielder, whoever you want to throw out there because their teams are so damn good that they can’t afford doing that because you have to worry about literally everyone. Avaste must’ve got slept or something in a game and has something against him 🤣
I do agree with his Twilight take. I’m a Twlight believer as well. That’s why I’m excited for them both because Jjonak will be the flex-support on Seoul with the best roster he has ever had (IMO) and Twilight is going to be the “THE” flex-support for Toronto and won’t be playing the main support position at all and won’t be playing in Viol2t’s shadow. I would love to see them play on these rosters in Overwatch 1 because obviously Overwatch 2 is completely chalked and the style for everything will be different especially for supports
ow2 anything can happen right?
nah im just playin
Where is sideshow's list? I think they forgot about it at the end, but they did say he made one
Avast the type of person to have jrue holiday over magic Johnson because jrue holiday won a championship more recently
I genuinely have no clue where all the 1987 love is coming from LOL he plays 4 hours in one season performs worse than Mmonk every time and is top 10 ? W h a t I s A v a s t S m o k i n g ?
i do think Faraway has a lot of potential but putting him, hell, even putting Mmonk in the top 10 is pretty damn pepega. if you're essentially only ranking players from this year (as Avast seemed to) then I could pretty easily see Mmonk in top 10, but Faraway is a huge stretch
@@sphenodon2016 true, he does have a lot of potential. But he hasn't earned the privilege to prove he belongs on a top 10 of goats. At the very least he must prove consistency over multiple seasons (and metas). Everyone else on the list has done that.
Avast off the goop with that Jjonak take. Dear lord
Viol2t in the playoffs of Season 2 was getting 30 second Coalescences. And sure his Moira play deteriorated in the following seasons (I guess) but I think at that time, in 2019, that was a defining moment for that hero in OWL and for Viol2t as well. Can’t get that one game of Anubis out of my mind.
i also believe his ana play is influenced by the shock not needing a ana in 2020 or 2021 with twilight on the bench. Dude defined what it meant to be a baptist player along with rascal.
Thats what I'm saying I have no recollection of this "bad moira" he literally won with the shock in 2019 on moira and didn't get subbed out, and then his moira was great in 2020 and solid in 2021 june joust.
it was so easy to get a 30 sec coal with 2019 moira lmao
There's also an akshon esports microplays segment that is dedicated to Viol2t's Moira, where he had coal when crimzo's was at 50%, and that was in 2020
@@pablor1990 yea I don’t remember it either
dude I've never wanted to argue with these guys so much before
I was about to click on the video and thought I hope Custas on this list just so we can get kariv appreciation and seeing kariv 10th made my day
Thank you for taking into consideration player behavior outside the game. Respect.
Damn avasts method of ranking seems so unreasonable for a top 10 all time list
Jonak should be #1. Like Jordan played on the Wizards and had a shit season but he's still the Goat.
I mean at least top three, dude has been the best not even close of 2018 season, won an MVP, won stage titles and fucking division titles by being a hyper-carry and a freak of nature. The fact that he isn't even in the top 5 in Avast's list of the best of all time, (not the current best of the past 2 years of owl) is actual blasphemy.
I'm 10 seconds in and already stunned that the show actually began after the "1" of a countdown
Just the fact alarm has been competing at the top level for his age since Apex s1 too
"hey we are doing an all time list" Avast: " no i dont think i will"
catching up to a lot of plat chat that I've missed over the years, and I cannot believe Bren had the best, most balanced take about jjonak at that point in time in pro overwatch
i feel like figure skating, for those who know about it, is a good analog for the progression within overwatch, since it's super obvious how much the level of the sport has risen over the years even to those who aren't experts. you could honestly take so many of the reasonably high level but not super intense skaters I've skated with growing up, and if you dropped them in like 1950, they'd win the entire olympics. In a head-to-head between the top skaters of sixty years ago and the top skaters now, the current ones win ten times out of ten. but that doesn't eliminate skaters like Peggy Flemming or Dorothy Hamill from being considered among the best of all time, easily ranking above some of the less notable of the current champions, despite those current champions having two full rotations in the air on them in their hardest jumps.
Avast has it exactly backwards. JJoNak never regressed - the game evolved and other guys watched him and came closer to his level. Probably still the best pure mechanics of any support player ever. Ranking him any lower than 3rd is just nuts.
I'm not a fan of the argument that earlier accomplishments count less because the level of competition was lower. When making a "Greatest of ALL TIME" list, you have to view these accomplishments and performances relative to their times.
If you look at football for example, Pele is seen as one of the greatest of all time, even though he played many decades ago and the average skill level now is incomparably higher than it was back then. But if you look at that time specifically, he was by far the undisputed best in the world, which is why he's still seen as one of the greatest of all time.
Then there are people like Haaland, who are putting up crazy performances in the recent seasons. But noone would ever have him in the GOAT conversation because of how comparatively little he's played at the top level, given he's still very young.
I think this analogy applies well to Jjonak and iris for example. I think Jjonak could be number 1 on this list, even over people like Izayaki or VIol2t, just for how much better he was than anyone else in his prime. He had a real impact on the Overwatch scene and on flex support players especially. From my experience, if you ask any high level flex support who also follow esports, who they're looking up to, most of them will say Jjonak (or Ryujehong).
On the other hand you have Iris. While he did have an incredible season and that season being the most competitive ever, relatively speaking he was nowhere near as good as Jjonak. Jjonak's only competition was Bdosin, but he was still obviously better. Meanwhile Iris wasn't even the best flex support of the season. Izayaki, Fielder and Shu were probably better and you could still make arguments for others. There was no argument against Jjonak.
Of course I think there should be some weight for performing well in the latest seasons as the competition is undeniably harder. But I don't like how people, especially Avast, seem to dismiss anything that's happened in the past just because the skill was lower. So I'm glad that at least Johnny puts a lot of weight on it.
I love how they are talking about how avast had violet below twilight just as violet got booped off the map while using high noon. Just a little bit comedic for me 😂
Id love to see you guys do this for each hero. Best Genji of all time would be a beefy debate. Could do multiple heroes per episode to speed it up.
People underestimate Jjonak like crazy. That man is still super good, possibly top 3 or 4 right now (now that Alarm is gone :(
Not at all, you understand that the man can’t play Bap or Moira? He is legit with Ana and Zen but his game has a lot of holes.
@@matiaschurba4478 His bap was much better in 2021. It’s still not up to snuff with the best baps like Shu or Iris but his bap play improved tremendously from 2020 to 2021
@@RiddLs That’s true John.
@@RiddLs can't disagree, but the point still stands for his abysmal Moira play. everyone can laugh and say Moira is an easy character, but only a handful of flex supports have looked better than "mediocre" on the hero throughout all 4 seasons. Boombox, Fielder, Alarm, GanNamJin, and (in S1) Sleepy are some of the only Moira standouts imo
So many of them living so far in the past and just omitting seasons that don't fit their narrative.
Skewed has a really good Zenyatta. He is definitely a flex healer that is just cracked at Brig. This was the year of double flex support and they were one of the teams playing it.
To be fair, teams that made fináls (Atlanta Shangai) had normaly MS And FS
Why are they talking so much shit about Custa??!! This man joined a mediocre Valiant and turned them around to going 9-1 in stage 4 S1 losing to Dallas fuel to not get the "Golden stage" made semi finals S1 which they got destroyed by London who let's be honest destroyed everyone. I think if they had faced any other team (maybe not philly) they would have ended up going to finals. Then S2 Kuki played support and they went 0-7!!!! and when Custa started playing for the team again they beat the 19-0 Vancouver Titans AT THERE OWN GAME!! (before 2-2-2 role lock aka Goats). Custa also got the same titles as Jesce which are winning a tournanment/stage and ending up third place in a season and Jecse ended up 8. Custa might not have the mechanics but he does know how to turn around a team (not saying he should be top 3 maybe like 7-8)
Custa was a great in game leader but not a playmaker and statistically average. He doesn't deserve the grief he gets, but he was just "good" in the league's least competitive year.
We still love him tho
because it is funny
Can't tell if this is a Matt burner or a Custa burner.
He got benched by a main tank OMEGALUL
in no way does he belong into the top 7-8 of any list of all time OW1 players.
like in no way can you be this biased, he wouldn't agree with that take himself.
Avast defending putting Faraway at 8th and jjonak at 10th makes me want to commit warcrimes.
Surprised to see Ryujehong not get any mentions, would be in my 10-15 slot forsure dude was crazy in the day. And Iris paid for this episode of plat chat apparently.
"Viol2t can only play two heroes" yet is the best zen all time and in 2020 was arguable peak amongst baps, ana solid but not elite, moria solid but lessened recently AND are we forgetting his brig, while not alarm, was super solid. Gotta put respect on the two time and I'm not even a shock fan or anything. It takes the best to show up when it counts and that he did in spades
I'm still kinda surprised everyone just the statement that 2021 was the most competitive the OWL has ever been. I understand that we had the best teams but we also had split regions so they could barely play each other. Shanghai were consistently the best team in the League and NA never got to play them in the regular season matches, only tournaments. The League was also entirely online for the most part with teams randomly having 200+ ping when the system was first implemented.
I know it's weird to make the statement that 2021 had the most competitive teams while also saying that it wasn't the most competitive season but it's still what i think :^P
Imagine making a "Top of _all Time_" List and then putting players lower because they played a couple years ago. How stupid is this?
How can you put someone like Faraway higher than fin Jjonak? It doesn't make any sense.
It's just stupid to rank someone like Iris higher who played "1 good season" than someone like "Jjonak" who fin dominated the league for an entire season.
Avast is countering his own arguments by saying "there's 4 more years" while ranking Iris high when Iris played "a little more than 1 Season". And yet he's still trying to defend his own arguments that he countered himself. Like WTF? Brian usage = 0. It's like me saying "I like McDonalds, but Burger King is better?" -> "Why is it better" -> "Because McDonalds has the better fries"?
Like wut?
Who is Brian and why hasn't he used it?
He also says Jjonak doesn't have a good hero pool, while Iris has played 80% bap
@@speedylordinc.3748 Brian tried to find Brain and that's why brain brianed the brain with 0 xD
just saying, the game has evolved. the peak 4 years ago is not even close to being the peak today. not saying his takes aren't dumb, but there is merit in valuing recent seasons more than the first couple.
Avast: Jjonak isn’t that good because he only had one good year
Also Avast: puts iris, mmonk, and farway above jjonak because they had one good year
How ryujehong didn’t even make it in the extended list is bizarre
Avast : "Einstein is rank 10th in top 10 Scientists "
Maybe each episode they should talk about all the teams success, failure, or the future.
I'd really love for when they're talking about their own list, when asked why someone was on it, someone would just respond with, "because i hate you"
Skewed is the only player to get points on both lists, nice
avast's list is basically "tell me you are a chengdu fan without telling me you are a chengdu fan"
Love this series, just wish they would keep their personal lists secret til the end lol. I basically knew most of their lists before the reveal at the end.
Alarm
Jjonak
Viol2t
Twilight
Izayaki
Shu
Fielder
Myunbong
Kariv
Bdosin
This is my Top 10 going by what order I think they would be inducted into a hall of fame.
Avast is literally just making a list of the top ten flex supports now! I don’t think he understands what this list is! It’s of all time! Not just of last season!
Inb4 they put Custa again on the list
i found it so funny how they said bad things about fielder because of moira when fielder i would always notice was just the best moira, getting col like twice a fight and you'd watch the ult usage he was amazing
bdosin played all year in 2020 even in playoffs him and creative were swapping back and forth
The answer is very clear if you simply compare Jjonak's first season against Iris' first season.
Avast way of putting these players up against one another as they are right now / today is so flawed in....every way? That only gives a ridiculous amount of bias towards the later players. Sure, Iris had an amazing 0.8 of a season. But who's to say he won't drop down if he has two or more seasons to go like Jjonak? The argument that Jjonak had more time does not work. The lifespan of a professional esport player is ridiculously short. Just like Reinforce's analogy; does this mean all of the top NBA players are the current players now? Does Avast unironically think Shaq shouldn't be considered one of the best centers of all time, simply because his final years' performance isn't as good as the current players' peak performance?
Avast is right in a way, season 1 was 4 years ago, but he was the best in the game s1 2nd or 3rd s2 a very bright spot Ona bad nyxl roster s3 and carried with flora on s4. Avast talks about the guy as if he’s been a Boston tier player since s2 which is just a flat out hate crime of a take
"He had played on every single map for the New York Excelsior since the team's inception, having never been subbed out for strategic or medical reasons, and is technically the only Flex Support player the organization had ever signed until his release in October 2021" - Liquipedia
League MVP OWL S1
72-20 across Season 2018-2020 (i excluded 2021 because that was the year he left the org)
JJONAK IS THE NUMBER 1
I think with Violet, you have to distinguish is him winning 2 championships, worth him not being able to flex incredibly well on to other things outside of Zen (although he can play other things, he can play Ana, and Moira, that is a misnomer, he is not as good as Twilight on them, but he can play them at a pretty good level). It's hard to say I think. It has to be either him, because yes he lead the Shock, not just was a part of them, he lead them pretty much to 2 championships. But Izayaki also arguably played better than him for 2 years straight as well. Alarm is far more flexible and even though Philly did win anything really, he's an amazing player on so many things but hasn't played as much. To me it comes down to do you think Izayaki is better, or Violet. It is one of those 2. Violet statistically is the best, but Izayaki on the eye test on more heroes is probably better, and he is a safer player than Violet and doesn't get punished as much. It's hard..and 2021 doesn't help his case because 2021 was confusing to say the least.
His Ana looked like a Plat Ana last time I saw a stream
I've been a bit out of touch from the overwatch league of the past year but I still tune in to platchat from time to time. I was just wondering what happened to Ryujehong. There was a time in OW1 where he was the undisputed best support in the world. Then again I didn't watch this season so idk about the newer players but I thought that he would at least get a mention.
They said at the start that they wouldn't include players who were good in game but not good irl. e.g. Ryujehong and Sinatraa.
"I had Viol2t below Twilight"
"Viol2t is a liability"
holy based, this is why Connor is the best in the business. Also how does Bren go on that spiel at the beginning regarding character and behavior but never bring up Viol2t's huge amount of toxicity?
Twilight is more flexible and more consistent. But viol2t has a higher peek IMO
Meanwhile he has Jjonak at 10th, so I don't know about that xD
@@speedylordinc.3748 nah that’s the correct take, JJonak had the Bumper treatment for 3 seasons of having 5 babysitters and an entire team built around him for a 4th season. Also his peak was in the weakest season competition wise, season 1 had the weakest competition and most pepege moments.
viol2t is the all time ow1 goat.
@@judeau5320 a team built around him? He literally had him and Flora on that team lmao then he had yakpung feeding his brains out and flowers doing literally nothing
I finally got around to watching this. I have:
1. Izayaki
2. Alarm
3. Viol2t
4. Jjonak
5. Shu
If you pause this one at 17:15 you'll see Avast doing the best DeNiro the Plat Chat organization has ever displayed.
Avast is actually trolling with his Jjonak placement. *shakes head*
Why was Ryujehong removed from the lists?
If you can put chips in there, Ryujehong should also be there within that metric.
22:48 look at their faces, all three of them smile hold it for 2 seconds then go back to a neutral face
How avast managed to go from a take as incredible as twilight at 2nd (should be first but w/e) to a take as AWFUL as jjonak 10th is beyond me
I think people are underestimating that JJonak was still good past Season 1. He was still elite in 2019, solid in 2020, and also solid if not better in 2021, mind you on a full rookie roster.
Jjonak better be top 5
he better not be
@@cormacbridge3273 rankings are of all time not now lol.
Avast lmao
@@andreastom1755 avast's list is the best
It’s a tragedy that Alarm never won anything because I think he was the best flex support skill-wise. Incredible every game, every season, on every hero, regardless of what his team was doing. I don’t think you can say that about anyone else.
Also Viol2t straight up had a mediocre season S4. How are we gonna argue inconsistency against every player other than Viol2t? Top 3 but not number 1, it’s hard to look at any other top 5 FS and say that they actively cost their team fights sometimes, even JJonak, but Viol2t absolutely does.
Avast is going to disagree with conventional thinking in every one of these to try and seem smarter than everyone else and I hope it doesn’t make these unwatchable
so true, i avast is a funny guy but i wish no one told him so we didnt have to deal with his ego
Avast straight clowning this episode
Totally forgot about alarm. Rip one of the greatest
On Jjonak: The question for me (that is impossible to answer) is "if you take a time machine, take the Jjonak of 2018 and place him in 2022, how would he perform". Maybe the competition just wasn't as strong in 2018? Or maybe it's stayed at the same level and Jjonak was genuinely just that good.
I just don't think "better than the competition at the time" matters, personally, if the competition was weaker back then.
But being better than the competition at the time pretty much defines Hall of Fame-type lists - if you ignore "competition at the time" then you're only allowing yourself to pick based on a player's peak skill levels vs. current general league skill level. In overwatch league, sure, that means only a few seasons, but take any other longer running sport and that just becomes impossible - basically no player from the 20th century would make a "Greatest Player" list under that logic, whether you look at soccer, NFL, basketball, or any other sport, and that's clearly not the intention of a "Greatest Players" list
Hopefully that all makes sense...
Avast and Custa having JJonak and 10 and 1 respectively is absurd