What If Kamille Bidan Wasn't Injured at the End of Zeta Gundam? | Gundam Theory w/ Midnight Hatter

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 8 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 81

  • @manat31790
    @manat31790 2 роки тому +120

    Why would Kamille join Neo Zeon? He hates both Zeon and Titans for killing innocent spacenoids and destroying space colonies. He also always sees Haman as his enemy, and he has a gripe with Char trying to avoid responsibility by posing as Quattro. The additional factor is that he's lost Four Murasame AND Rosamia Badam from evil people weaponizing Newtypes. Kamille will not react well to Char weaponizing him or Quess, and he will even react even poorer to Char ransacking more space colonies and dropping them on Earth.
    That only covers a what-if scenario where CCA still happens despite Kamille not having his brain fried, i.e. Super Robot Wars Alpha 2. Kamille might start as a selfish a-hole, but he's wised up by the end of Zeta. In canon, he's reaching out to Judau for help since his Newtype sense subconsciously lets him know the kid's a good person. If the new ZZ played out like the New Translation, he would have roped up the Shangri La kids and become their mentor. The ZZ Gundam then can go to either pilot, likely Judau still since he's the protagonist.

    • @nicholas.e5158
      @nicholas.e5158 Рік тому +13

      Where did you get source that he hated Zeon? The only issue Kamile had was with the TITIANS. The one year War and its events were never a concern with Kamile at all. He even accpeted char despite knowing he was the red comet of the Principality. Sounds more like fanboy good boy take than a realistic take based on lore imo. The take of Kamile being on Char side would of likely happened. I never seen any hatred towards Zeon During zeta Gundam. He only hated Haman based on the vibe she gave off same with Jeadue. Yoyr take is bias and not based on lore at all. In addition lore wise Zeon gassed one colony during that time, the 2nd colony failed to drop dueing the 1 week operation. The colony drop in stardust memory was en empty colony that was stolen during transport to one of the sides. The titans gassed more colonies and made zeon look like pups when it came to that.

    • @CyrodiilCome
      @CyrodiilCome Рік тому +6

      My man's final moments in zeta is screaming people like you don't deserve to live. He even told Char he was right about those tied to gravity being wrong. He was on his way to being the bad guy

    • @NoOne-us9xv
      @NoOne-us9xv Рік тому

      @@CyrodiilCome I'm sorry, but this is the dumbest thing I've ever read in this fandom.

    • @Iggyboyblue
      @Iggyboyblue Рік тому +20

      @@nicholas.e5158Kamille was among the crew members who did not agree with siding with Axis Zeon. He was also affected a lot by the colony gassing, and actively hated fighting near civilians.
      In what world do you think he would agree to join Char in his Axis drop plans?

    • @romatigerpunk
      @romatigerpunk Рік тому

      ​@@CyrodiilCometo own the libs

  • @bluekashus2499
    @bluekashus2499 2 роки тому +124

    This is heresy...Kamille was the chosen one, he was to bring balance Char not join him. 😆 Poor Armuro, all beaten and battered by the cool kids.

    • @insansiregar6158
      @insansiregar6158 Рік тому +2

      Did Amuro literally get beaten up?

    • @aliastheabnormal
      @aliastheabnormal Рік тому +6

      Fun fact: Kamille joinint Neo Zeon was Tomino's original plan. But it was rejected and Gyunei was created to fill his plot.

    • @SiegInvencivel
      @SiegInvencivel Рік тому +1

      ​@@aliastheabnormali heard that once but i dont remember where, theres any interview where tomino says that?

    • @aliastheabnormal
      @aliastheabnormal Рік тому

      @@SiegInvencivel I only heard the rumors. I don't know where it came from.
      Why don't you try finding out yourself and enlightening all of us? Instead of bitching?

    • @altreon3608
      @altreon3608 Рік тому +5

      ​@@SiegInvencivel from my research it seems the person who spread that info made it up

  • @Rudero3
    @Rudero3 2 роки тому +62

    I like this but I don't think this is likely to happen. Kamille was more or less Char's son, if he had survived fine, Char would have reappeared sooner, and they would have defeated Haman together, with Judau and them, Kamille would have become Quattro, and Judau become Kamille, in those roles. After Haman's demise, Char would have let Mineva go to be left alone in peace, but I do believe Char would militarily take over Side 3, but then actively work towards peace with the Federation, something Kamille would directly assist as. Actually, most of the AEUG would return to Zeon, since the vast majority of the AEUG were Zeon citizens who weren't entirely Nazified by the Zabis. Char would have no need for his revenge against Amuro. With Char alive, no one would make Full Frontal, and any Zeon remnants (be them Neo Zeon from Axis, or Principality holdouts on earth) would either be pacified by Char's efforts, or wiped out by the Federation.
    I don't think there would be another major conflict till Cosmo Babylonia like 40 years later. Unicorn wouldn't be a thing since no Full Frontal, no Sleeves, no race for Laplace's Box. However, IF that was a plot point, I bet Char and Kamille would discover it, and with Amuro seeing the truth, he wouldn't fight it, and the Federation would be risk a war against Char and Kamille, and all of Space, not just Neo Zeon, for what, to hold on to some taxes?
    Oh and Gryps 2 would never be repaired, Char's Neo Zeon would never allow a superweapon like that to exist on their doorstep. And all parties would probably push Axis back away from earth, towards the asteroid belt it came from.

    • @jabrilkey81
      @jabrilkey81 Рік тому +3

      I like this, this is a good plot point

    • @tahirahmad9645
      @tahirahmad9645 11 місяців тому +1

      How would they have worked with Banagher?

    • @forickgrimaldus8301
      @forickgrimaldus8301 9 місяців тому +2

      I think CCA wouldn't even happened if Kamille was around in ZZ, Char would likely just take over Haman's Place After ZZ, or if there was a CCA like Event Char wouldn't be the one doing it but Haman, which makes for an Interesting Senario with Amuro on Nu Gundam, Char on Sazabi and Kamille on Z or ZZ taking on Haman

    • @forickgrimaldus8301
      @forickgrimaldus8301 9 місяців тому

      ​@@tahirahmad9645should another Neo Zeon show up, it would likely be from Haman's Axis than Char, and if the Classic 3 (Amuro, Kamille and Char) were there than it would Collapse immediately especially when Char has basically a Cult of Personality in Neo Zeon to the point in the Actual timeline they literally cloned him,
      So Banager would probably not even be on the Unicorn and be with Mineva all the time in this timeline.

    • @Rudero3
      @Rudero3 9 місяців тому +3

      @@forickgrimaldus8301 Yeah, I think Char would have returned to take command of AEUG again and after Haman's defeat, he would have asserted himself as a leader of the Zeon remnants, with Kamille by his side, most likely. The Federation would literally not be able to do anything about it. The only issue would be if Karaba rejoined the Federation and if the AEUG wholly rejoined with the Zeon remnants, because let's be honest, half if not more of the AEUG were old Zeon forces.
      Who knows, maybe the war with Axis would have been entirely avoided if Char was still the leader of AEUG, with Kamille as his vanguard. Who would have the balls to fight them after what they did to the Titans? Also, you know if Char came out publicly again as he did in Dakar, what percentage of Axis/Neo Zeon forces would side with him and just abandon Haman's cause? Char has the most legitimacy out of all the Zeon remnants.

  • @TheMaxinR
    @TheMaxinR Рік тому +16

    I really liked the story, but I doubt Kamille would join Neo Zeon, or even that Char's Neo Zeon would be a thing. In some SRW where we can go from Z to ZZ, if Char and Kamille are alive, char won't go to the Neo Zeon route, implying that Scirocco debilitating Kamille and how the federation treated Kamille as expendable is what finally broke Char.
    Also, the ZZ was made as an upgrade to the Z specifically to Kamille, if Kamille was still in fighting shape, I really doubt anyone else would be allowed to pilot it.
    And as a closing thought: Unicorn Gundam, but Kamille pilots it

    • @Rikarikun
      @Rikarikun Рік тому +1

      sticking a newtype any stronger than Banager in the unicorn is a dangerous mistake and we all know why that is.
      I still want to see what would happen anyway though.

    • @TheMaxinR
      @TheMaxinR Рік тому

      @@Rikarikun But even so

  • @WorldsGreatestRingAnnouncer
    @WorldsGreatestRingAnnouncer 2 роки тому +15

    Honestly, Judau would have never left the colony on the Argama and likely Kamille and Roux would have gotten together instead of Kamile and Fa. Honestly, Kamile would have stayed out of the conflict until the end. Char had legit grievances and Earth Federation was still plagued by Titan Influences. It’s when Char threatened to drop another colony that Kamille would have intervened in the ZZ Gundam piloted by him followed by Mk-II by Roux and Z Gundam by an Elpeo Ple clone.

  • @nobita3378
    @nobita3378 7 місяців тому +3

    Kamille using bawoo? Wow awesome 🤩

  • @Rikarikun
    @Rikarikun Рік тому +9

    while I like your theory in the sense of "what if kamile was more influenced by char", we have a ton of evidence (literally every SRW featuring a playable Kamile and also depicting the events of CCA, and then some) pointing toward Kamile throwing a tantrum and getting into a fight with Char at the first occasion over him going back to being Char and how disappointed he is in him for it. Kamile, if anything, is the key to preventing CCA from playing out as it does in canon, either because Char will try to kill him, and fail, and then be convinced to stop, or because Kamile just shows up, interrupts the fight, and (very angrily) bodies Char himself in the Zeta, freeing up Amuro, and whoever else may be present, to deal with axis before the point of no return.
    Basically, there is no way in hell that Char could make the charisma roll to convince Kamile that he's fully in the right. Kamile, much like Amuro, would instead serve as an anchor to keep him from committing war crimes. Hell, the reason Char even tries to drop Axis in the first place is explained as BECAUSE of Kamile's little stint as a vegetable in a lot of those alternate scenarios where Kamile gets back up in time to help stop him and *isn't* stopped by Fa from doing the right thing because she doesn't want to fight anymore, she even admits that Kamile going to stop him is the right thing to do with a bit of selfish lamentation in at least one of these scenarios when someone says something along the lines of "fa, sweetie, char is going to cause bigger problems if we don't stop him".

    • @forickgrimaldus8301
      @forickgrimaldus8301 9 місяців тому +2

      Honestly if Kamille showed up in CCA I think Char and Amuro will both live, Kamille will likely talk Char out of it a rant about "you betrayed your ideals, and if you must drop the Axis you have to stop me" speech and Char likely will surrender and stop the Axis. (maybe the One Short where Amuro saves Quess is also canon to this as Amuro isn't facing Char.)

  • @Username71282
    @Username71282 Рік тому +6

    In opening scene trilogy movie Zeta : A New Translation II, you can see Kamille follow Amuro step (on right) instead Quatro/Char (on left). Maybe it's easter egg from Sunrise.

  • @victoraponte-jh5ke
    @victoraponte-jh5ke 3 дні тому

    Yo this was a super interesting idea. I always wondered jjst how different UC Gundam would be should Kamille & Judau were actually around during CCA & Unicorn. Thanks for the awesome video!

  • @SteelRims
    @SteelRims 8 місяців тому +3

    I almost forgot that Londo Bell is pretty much the same as the Titans, purpose-wise. Just with good people at the helm.

    • @MidnightHatter
      @MidnightHatter  8 місяців тому +2

      I may be misremembering, but I’m pretty sure someone in the series said something alluding to that.
      Kind of like how ECOAS went on to become the Manhunters in Hathaway.

  • @Solbrave00
    @Solbrave00 Рік тому +10

    The fact that kamille would join neo zeon wouldn't make sense.
    If SRW has any indication, Kamille wouldve been fully against char.

  • @ViVi-gi1ns
    @ViVi-gi1ns 2 роки тому +10

    I just want Kamille to be happy

  • @NoOne-us9xv
    @NoOne-us9xv Рік тому +3

    It's an interesting theory, but I can't see Kamille siding with Char on this, at least not if Char still intended to drop Axis to earth.
    The two biggest roadblocks I see here are 1) Kamille made it expressly clear, all throughout Zeta, that he never had any qualms with challenging Char if he felt a strong enough conviction, and 2) Kamille is depicted as someone who clearly doesn't take death lightly. His breakdown upon killing Jerid, the moment where he "exacts justice" on the guy who killed his mother, and Four, and Apolly, makes it painfully evident (which, in this case, is not euphemistic) that the loss of life in any form takes a heavy toll on him, particularly when it feels so needless. You'll occasionally get the 300 IQ cerebral studs who point to Kamille's line about Scirocco needing to die; anyone whose IQ is a bigger number than their age can tell you that's not Kamille suddenly doing a 180 on this resolution, it's just noting an exception. I'm sure most of us here aren't dumb enough for that to bear explanation, so I won't go into it.
    That said, there IS a Gihren's Greed ending where Amuro actually joins Char in starting a Neo Zeon movement, and is able to keep Char in check, meaning no global-scale war crimes. Gihren's Greed is obviously not gospel, but from my experience, it tends to depict the characters pretty faithfully in all its zany what-if shit. Maybe Kamille reconnecting with Char after Zeta would've yielded a similar result after all. I do think that if he was unable to dissuade Char from going through with the Axis drop, he'd have ultimately sided with Londo Bell, though.

  • @AlexRoivas
    @AlexRoivas 27 днів тому +2

    Instead of Gyunei Guss it should have been Kamille in Chara Counterattack. Would have been great for Amuro to take fight him.

  • @OwenConcorde
    @OwenConcorde 2 роки тому +8

    This is really intersting! I like how it written like if it might've been based on the original writing for CCA. So what if Kamille would've killed Haman sooner than Judau did? It's based on one of the alternate endings for the PS2 game, "Gundam vs Zeta Gundam" and I'm wondering what the effects would've been from ZZ onwards. This is just my suggestion for a future video.

  • @loot848
    @loot848 2 роки тому +26

    finally, a universe where CCA is good

  • @BottomFrontal451
    @BottomFrontal451 Рік тому +4

    Now give us if all three gundam pilots where in CCA

  • @nicholas.e5158
    @nicholas.e5158 Рік тому +8

    Love the fact stated regarding char not beating Haman yet Jeadu was able which is straight plot armor. Char is a one year war vet Haman never seen the combat Char has seen and Jeadue has never been on the front lines of any war.

    • @OrtadragoonX
      @OrtadragoonX Рік тому +1

      Newtype BS powers is what it comes down.
      Judau and Haman are on an entirely different level when it comes to their Newtype BS.

  • @lauraazure6462
    @lauraazure6462 Рік тому +2

    A year late but this was really interesting even though I think you gave Quess way more credit then she deserves

  • @Behshsbbsjkk
    @Behshsbbsjkk Рік тому +2

    If Kamille was there Char will never give up hope

  • @nagiaoe2434
    @nagiaoe2434 11 місяців тому +1

    At least makes more sense than what we got in CCA

  • @Aanderan
    @Aanderan 8 місяців тому +3

    what if we absolutely ignore everything Kamille is, has done and stands for to make a Mattpat video

    • @ZontarDow
      @ZontarDow 5 місяців тому +1

      He was originally going to be Char's right hand man in Counterattack.

    • @Aanderan
      @Aanderan 5 місяців тому +1

      @@ZontarDow no bro that's aimless speculation mixed with misconception due to Zeta originally being called Char's Counter Attack.
      Camille was always destined to follow in the footsteps of his inspiration Camille Claudel to the bitter end.

    • @ZontarDow
      @ZontarDow 5 місяців тому

      @@Aanderan That's literally documented

    • @Aanderan
      @Aanderan 5 місяців тому +1

      @@ZontarDow

  • @Mademperortcg
    @Mademperortcg 11 місяців тому +1

    You should continue this 😮

  • @Xman42635
    @Xman42635 2 роки тому +31

    I always thought that Kamille, even through all his character development over the course of Z, was always going to go down the route of an antagonist. He only meets the conditions of a protagonist primarily because the Titans are written to be so outright cruel. Aside for maybe Jerid who has a slightly more of a defined reason being for his actions (it almost all being Kamille related), all the Titans who don't hop ship to the protagonist side seem incredibly unhinged.
    With them out of the way, there'd be nothing to do with a character like Kamille other than place him on the side of the antagonists in Char's Counterattack. Something I think is ultimately the reason why he suffered the fate he did at the end of his own series. All in all, your extension of Kamille's story past Gundam Z makes a lot of sense and it's got me very interested in more videos of this kind.

    • @WorthlessWinner
      @WorthlessWinner 2 роки тому +5

      He seemed especially close to Char, so the idea that he'd abandon him seems strange

  • @blue1764
    @blue1764 2 роки тому +4

    The saddest what if I've ever heard.

  • @stefilordofsmugness4108
    @stefilordofsmugness4108 4 місяці тому

    Kamille would have NEVER came to a conclusion that a colony drop would be necessarry to force people to space. Just think about what he said to Haman and Shirocco inside Gryps 2, "What will you get if you create a world that disregards people's soul?". He has seen enough people die in vain to Zeon not to join them in mass genocide, while still beliveing that Char's intentions were right only the method is wrong.

  • @kokylee8098
    @kokylee8098 23 дні тому +1

    I thought that new translation also had a similar thing for their alternate ending

    • @MidnightHatter
      @MidnightHatter  23 дні тому +1

      I'm pretty sure there's a Gihren's Greed ending where Amuro joins Char.

  • @piratavorak
    @piratavorak Рік тому

    all make sense, but Char was the leader of AEUG, he could with Karaba force politics in earth for everyone leave earth, he didin't have to drop axis, even Amuro agreed with this "we trying to move people into space, a task of that magnitude is going to require a sacrifice or two"

    • @MidnightHatter
      @MidnightHatter  Рік тому +1

      Yeah I think it’s hard to imagine Char deciding to drop Axis if the AEUG hadn’t fallen apart after Zeta and ZZ.

  • @ShadeNightwolf
    @ShadeNightwolf 2 місяці тому

    Soo.... nothing changes, other than the inspiration of the Axis Shock?

  • @Elios0000
    @Elios0000 4 місяці тому

    i think Kamille living would have stablized Char there still would be Char taking back Neo Zeon but i dont think they would dropped Axis.

  • @KronnangDunn
    @KronnangDunn 3 місяці тому +1

    Kamille did not get injured at the end of Zeta Gundam....

    • @EricBoone-g4f
      @EricBoone-g4f 2 місяці тому +2

      True, but the guy in the big yellow potato robot did mentally f- him up.

    • @chheinrich8486
      @chheinrich8486 Місяць тому

      Mentally he did😂,

  • @xaagripha7326
    @xaagripha7326 4 дні тому

    I dont think thats how it would happen at all, kamille would have sabotaged both amuro and char in a attempt to save his friends and life in general, you have see it in how he saw four. the kid would have been a needed unconventional good. like a answer that wasnt presented on paper.

    • @MidnightHatter
      @MidnightHatter  3 дні тому

      I like that interpretation. Reminds me of Kilimanjaro when Kamille refused to listen to either Char or Amuro.

  • @darksamuraineo6322
    @darksamuraineo6322 Рік тому

    It's pretty cool that kamille had a blue bawoo like I'm also kind of confused did he die with Amaro and char ?

  • @DLAbaoaqu
    @DLAbaoaqu Рік тому +3

    Apparently Gyunei Guss was supposed to be Kamille in CCA, but they couldn’t use him for whatever reason.

    • @MidnightHatter
      @MidnightHatter  Рік тому

      That's what I had heard as well. There is even concept art of Kamille in Zeon uniforms floating around (although maybe it's fanart?). It's what inspired this video!

    • @ExtraArk
      @ExtraArk Рік тому +2

      There is no "apparently". There is no source on those claims, it has just been parroted so much that people accept it to be true.
      It used to be on the Gundam wiki with no source and I assume most people got it from there, but it's no longer there. It more or less just fits the thinking of "Yeah, that would easily fit something Tomino would write."
      Edit to say if you can drop a source on it I'd love to read it, because even searching in japanese didn't give a thing.

    • @Zudah_Pilot
      @Zudah_Pilot Рік тому +1

      @@MidnightHattercould be from Gihren’s Greed games? There’s alternate uniforms for many characters if they join a different faction

  • @RezaQin
    @RezaQin 9 місяців тому

    It would have been way better than ZZ, that's for sure.

  • @megagundamva2694
    @megagundamva2694 7 місяців тому

    Kamille in a Bawoo eh makes sence

  • @blakegriebenow8834
    @blakegriebenow8834 2 роки тому +1

    Keep'em coming!

  • @chimbloanimation9242
    @chimbloanimation9242 4 місяці тому

    Wow

  • @robertwestfall_M.A.R.S.O.
    @robertwestfall_M.A.R.S.O. 2 роки тому

    WOAH! 0o0

  • @JohnC6723
    @JohnC6723 2 роки тому

    I think it’s an interesting take!

  • @RedShogun13
    @RedShogun13 Рік тому

    I can’t confirm but I think I remember reading somewhere that in early plans for CCA that Gyunei Guss’ character was actually supposed to be a returning Kamille Bidan coming to support his former mentor/father figure in Char/Lieutenant Quattro from Zeta and that we were going to get an Amuro vs Kamille fight. Would have been a little depressing to see Kamille killed by Amuro but could have been really cool if they made it a close fight and emphasized Kamille being the superior Newtype but Amuro using his superior piloting skills to overcome it.

  • @tedhodge4830
    @tedhodge4830 Рік тому

    Wut

  • @frankwhite2072
    @frankwhite2072 9 місяців тому

    Boooo.