What do oil marketing claims actually mean?
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- Опубліковано 15 сер 2021
- How can I choose which motor oil is the best for my car or truck? It can be almost impossible to tell what is actually inside an engine oil bottle, much less the expected performance of the product. In this video, we try to parse out some of the claims made on a bottle of Pennzoil Ultra Platinum as a case study in using publicly available information to uncover as much info about a product as possible.
- Наука та технологія
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I always thought the marketing was baseless. It’s good to hear these oil companies are holding each other accountable for their claims
Yeah, it's a little bit self-regulated. On the other hand, and the lower end there's some pretty wild claims being made by small batch manufacturers which don't seem to stand up. Unfortunately they're small enough that's its not really worth anyone's time to take legal action.
Gosh, they truly aren't making this too easy.
If manufacturers know that for instance no other product scored higher than they did, it makes me wonder whether these "leaderboards" exist somewhere where they could be obtained?
Crash test results are public - why would these not be?
They're very careful about publishing any information that identifies specific competitors, probably for fear of legal reprisals. But the majors do "take aparts" all the time - in which they identify every component of a competitor's product. Plus they do benchmarking too.
please we want more more more videos like this one !!! thank you sir
Sure thing!
As always great stuff! Your videos keeps getting better and better.
Thank you very much!
Man this was awesome! Thanks for pointing me here 😄 I love your videos and can’t believe I missed this one.
Glad you liked it!
As far as I remember after talking to Pennzoil Technical Desk Shell Helix was actually the first "made from natural gas" motor oil and introduced in Europe. The pure plus technology was given to Pennzoil after the Shell takeover of Pennzoil and Quaker State in the USA because of market forces. Shell continues to offer Helix in the European market.
Shell was planning to make a natural gas oil refining plant in America, but later decided it would be cheaper to continue making it in Qatar and exporting it to America.
Clearly explained the jargon of oil marketing, great to you sir.
Apparently they mean you’ll have to do a lot of research! And that’s where they win, since most of us never look past the marketing on a good deal of (any) products we use-great information video-
Very true!
That is where brand reputation comes in. But partly due to consumer overconfidence created by superficial laws, and partly from snakey quick turn over CEOs who don't care about long term fallout, a lot of this reputation based system has been lost while chasing ever finer penny pinching.
@@mytech6779 Marketing isn’t a new evil plan by short sighted CEOs. Technology has just made it easier to spread “the word”. As always, it’s consumer beware. Everything purchased comes down to how much time someone is willing to spend researching (any) given product. Fortunately, for marketing, it’s not munch-
@@watercooled8105 It isn't marketing, it is bait and switch, combined with clever accounting expending brand equity to temporarily give an illusion of a boost in net profit. Taking a reputable brand and suddenly switching production to inferior garbage products for a quick profit boost before buyers catch on, then abandoning the empty hull and moving on to fresh prey has been a growing trend.
(Much like pulling money out of the savings account each week to pretend your weekly income has increased. Or cutting the budget for R&D knowing that the there is a 5 year lag for new product development and you plan to retire or change companies in 4 years.)
It is not only a problem for customers, but also for the long term investors that are left holding the worthless remains.
@@mytech6779 None of which will happen without the product (good or bad) being sold first. It’s a very old game played with new technology. Except now the new technology can cut both ways.
Since the terms synthetic, full synthetic, advanced full synthetic etc etc, have no meaning or definition, is there an effective method of determining exactly what type of base oils these various lubricants are produced from? P.S. absolutely LOVE your channel. You have taught me so much. Thank you!
Besides lab analysis, what about CAS numbers and spectrometry readings trying to find out PAO and Esther concentrations aiming to discover the good stuff among the many oil products and producers? Keep doing, great channel! Best regards.
There are some oils that are advertised as "100% PAO Esther" like Penrite Ten Tenths. If you really need the best just buy those.
@@thomas316 and castrol 0w range oils are group4/5 basestock.
Am undergoing a training program with an upcoming blending company.Am an upcoming formulator.and most of the times am reading on my own. I ve just finished my university degrees program with Btech chemical engineering and your are my best teacher so farrr
Glad to be of help! I've reached out on LinkedIn, there may be some other ways I can help.
@@LubricationExplained I have connected with you...hoping to learn alot from you
Great explanation! Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you for the info about Oil in engine.
It helps to understand oil inside the can to the engine.
Help to setup race engine
Glad to be of help!
AWESOME lesson, thank you
No worries! Hope it helps.
Think the Shell France make the GTL ? Interesting Shell moved on from refined Slack Wax as it was so good already. Good to see someone explaining oils like this, especially an Aussie.
Thanks! Most GTL is made in Qatar but there are a couple of other smaller plants around.
Thank you very much for the explanation 👍👍👍👍
Sama sama!
Really good video mate thanks 🙏
No problem 👍
Good Show, Sir :) Rings some previous bells... Analyses jargon, out there...
Personally, would need to review, coupla times, to think thru'?
Initial comment: Yes, Pennzoil has been inc'd by Shell; As pioneer, Valvoline, by a big corp?... & Castrol, by BP?...
Ref the Manufacturer's Manual, for Oil Spec/ Application?... UOA's the "Black & White"? @ Svc Interval?
On a point of detail (6:20) Lloyds Register is not an insurance company. It started life as a Shipping Registrar who certify and inspect shipping for safety/design, the governing committee was drawn from all areas of shipping, insurers, regulators. That classification information is used to assess risk by Lloyds of London which is the main insurance group of companies in London. Lloyds Register has diversified into process and engineering Quality Assurance.
Awesome research, thx...
Great video, nice one!
Thanks mate! Hope you're doing well over there.
I would love to see a video breaking down all the GM Dexos certifications. Especially Dexos2 and DexosD.
Awesome video
8:30 I think it makes sense that its a cleaner. When it says "protects" I don't think of gaining but just keeping what I already have and I think cleaning makes sense in that context.
Mobil got way too loose with its marketing of its early full synthetic aviation oil (piston crankcase) in the 1980s, basically saying it was good for everything all the time everywhere. While it was great for many purposes it ended up failing miserably in one common application. There was a court case, Mobil had to pay for a bunch of engine rebuilds and due to the conservative nature of that market both Mobil and synthetics were almost entirely abandoned by the piston airplane market. Only in the last couple years have I seen them sneaking back in under the Exxon brand.
I read about that case. It's a funny instance of history repeating itself. We're currently experiencing a very similar problem in the industrial gas turbine market, where a move from Group I to Group III turbine oils is causing a tonne of varnish issues.
There have been precisely 0 videos made by you which haven't been incredibly well done and informative.
what is the general advice if we have port injected, non force induction engine, with no emission enhansment in the exhaust system ... should we use the "new eco oils" or should stick with the 90s and 00s type oils (if even accessible) or go with new type oils and add ZDDP ?
Hi mate. I really like you... I mean.your knowledge about oil & types of oils. It's awesome & I am learning so far & it's cool how I can make sense of what ever topic you are talking about. OIL'S AN'T OIL'S.
you know what I mean..
VALVOLINE
Thanks and welcome!
Could you explain about hydraulic oils & rotary screw air compressor "SULLAIR" oils & was ATF "automatic transmission fluid" used as early day hydraulic oil?
A mate made a good point one-day saying that 2-stroke oil mixed in with petrol actually softens the firing in the cylinder as also lubricate the bearings. What is your thoughts about 2-stroke oils?
I use full synthetic and less than 7,000 miles per year. No off road or harsh driving. Shall I oil change in 6 months or one year?
It's so hard not to think that "nothing is better" means "it's the best" rather than "it's no better than the competition". The marketing people truly are evil geniuses.
It might even be true to use "it's the best" meaning "best equal", but that might be pushing it!
At least the "up to..." weasel-phrasing is easy to spot. I always reword those as "less than (or equal to)...". :D
Marketing is appezing the senses. Put a picture of your dog on bag of dog food and you will swear it´s the "BEST DOG CHOW IN THE WORLD!!" even if your dog wount touch the stuff! When it comes to motor oils we have the API/ILSAC standards and the owners manual to go by to keep our vehicles running for many years. The old saying..."KEEP YOUR OIL CLEAN!" and there is no need for Flushing - Blackstone Labs Testing and looooong debates on which oil or filter to use.
Yeah, flushing of engines it really only a thing when you let the oil go too long and have a lot of deposits.
There are more vehicle manufacturer that forced a fixed viscosity for all kind of climate condiition. With current oil tehcnology, would people do not need to change viscosity for example in himalaya vs dubai?
Yes - theoretically the OEMs should probably be specifying viscosities by region, but most don’t seem to be.
@@LubricationExplained yes. this seems to be the cause of engine having sludge even with more than frequent oil change. Engine flush become popular here.
I recall from one of your other excellent videos that you indicated that a !00% synthetic oil based upon a combination of mostly PAO (derived by clean ethylene gas) and Esters (for example, Amsoil Signature Series) did better in the viscosity stability and shear test than the natural gas to liquid oil in the Pennzoil? I believe that natural gas is mainly composed of methane, with varying degrees of ethane, butane and propane and as I recall, you said that natural gas pulled from ground was dirter than ethylene gas? If so, it would have been nice to compare those lofty claims by Pennzoil to the test results of the Amsoil Signature Series, in order to see which one came out on top? Thanks for your highly informative videos!
Project Farm channel already done comparison test between Amsoil and Penzoil.
Amsoil won. But Penzoil have better price.
From one of your other excellent discussions I was under the impression that PAO ester oil was superior to Gas to Liquid oil as sold by Shell and Penzoil. Shear was one of the tests, viscosity stability was another in which PAO came first over GTL, those characteristics seem crucial to me where high performance is involved. So I'm wondering why Penzoil would be used in Indy engines.
The excellent video and some of Rafe's replies to other comments highlight that claiming "better" is fraught with difficulty, as an oil is addressing a matrix of requirements. There's also the issue that people confuse the performance of viscosity grade X with viscosity grade Y - or even worse - compare "Shell Helix" with "Castrol". Just go check out how many sub-brands there are, regardless of viscosity. Consumer legislation in the USA and many other western economies means that the vendors have to sell these with different formulations in that country if hey wish to charge a different price.
In another example of avoiding temptation to jump to conclusions, Rafe gives an example of how easy it is to find old data for a fluid no longer sold. It's then tempting to compare it with a current product.
Another issue where people seem to get confused when discussing lubricants is to compare the performance of finished fluids based on particular components. While directionally it is true that PAOs have advantages over API Group III fluids in certain properties, it's possible to
1) make a rubbish lubricant from expensive components that have excellent properties and
2) formulate to meet most specifications without using the most expensive ingredients.
There's an Ultra Platinum Racing version that is used in competition. The MOTUL 300V Racing has less than 50% ester [relatively very high] for same use. Esters or relatively high amounts of ester aren't used in passenger car engine oils for long service drain intervals bc of esters water affinity and seal corrosion.
Havoline's full synthetic has less than 10% ester/1-octadecene
yeah pennzoil synthetics used to be the go to for cleaning up an old dirty engine. after a few cycles neglected engines would be remarkably cleaner. now with about half the detergents i seriously doubt it will clean like before and the old claim of "cleans 45% of sludge in one oil change" is gone as well.
im not a fan of sp oils. having spent my younger years in the hot rod scene i can tell you that detonation happens when things arent matched up or when youre pushing the limits of the octane in use. this all comes back to the epa fuel mileage mandates and direct injection, turbo charged cars. its all hogwash as far as im concerned. they are sacrificing engine protection to juggle numbers.
like running a 0w16 for example. is there REALLY a noticeable difference in mpg over a 0w30? my f150 aas specced for 5w20. ive ran up to 15w40 and havent noticed any mpg difference. so far ive ran 125k miles with 0w40 with no ill effects. total mileage on the truck is 250k and ive never had an internal engine issue....but the 5w20 guys have all had valve train repairs by 150k.
Yeah a lot of the OEMs are chasing lower viscosities purely to make the cut on emissions regulations. Does it make a huge difference? Probably not but I guess if you gain 1% from the lubricant and 1% by improving the ignition patters and 1% by turbocharged etc. it all adds up to something material. It's probably driven more by the EU than the US EPA to be honest. A combination of reduced viscosities and reduced antiwear packages logically leads to more wear.
For many year now in the USA all sae40 oils and some straight weight 30 are marketed as a "heavy duty" oil and are allowed to have more anti-wear phosphorus, zinc and so on. While multigrade sae30 and lower viscosity are considered passenger car oils and must allow catalytic converters to meet a certain performance spec at 100k miles. I would be interested to know the amount of mineral build up in the exchaust side of your heads and manifold, a lot of HD oils are co-labeled for gasoline or diesel and have higher TBN, which has in some cases caused mineral deposits when combined with low sulfur fuels because there are fewer acidic sulfur byproducts for the calcium to react with.
@@LubricationExplained Doesn't the molybdenum make up enough to replace the lower traditional anti wear additives? Plus boron for the timing chain?
@@jc.1191 Mo is not long term sustainable decreasing mileage intervals
I wonder can we calculate the Total base number from the elements in parts table @ 19:12 of this video?🤔
If i used 98 gasolina , can i used oil for motorcicle low saps? In 1.6 16v 99'. ?? Thanks ..great canal
LE please help, how about an old Toyota car from 1995 and living in Indonesia, what grade oil is better to use?? what if using synthetic oil?? if using grade 5w-30 oil will the friction and wear be very bad?? thanks in advance
Great info sir. It was good to hear you mention Amsoil among the so-called heavy hitters. I am an Amsoil Dealer in Central Florida and have just recently come across your channel. Thank you for sharing what you have learned. If you ever need an Amsoil data sheet and can't find it on the web, just let me know. Amsoil provides those to us in our Dealer zone back office. Cheers🇺🇲💯
Can you tell anything about Lubrication engineering as none as (LE) motor oil.
which oils have the most esters?
I like zddp boron nanoborate
Motul are known for 100% synthetic water engine oils.
a doubt; when OEM states the engine requires ACEA a5/b5 and the oil used has only API rating is it okay to use it...
Good question. Unfortunately the answer is "it depends". Some API and ACEA specs are equivalent, so you might be okay.
@@LubricationExplained thanks you... another doubt; From ACEA A5/B5 is it Ok to go up to C2 ...
Sticking my nose in here. I´v never seen a motor oil container that did not have the API rating here in the EU. I have noticed that the ACEA rating can be missing. Bought a jug of MANNOL 5w30 on line and it only had the API and ILSAC ratings on it.
What do you think about BG products?
Good question. I haven’t personally used them so I can’t comment on performance, but they seem to have a pretty good reputation.
I think the Germans pioneered GTL in WW2 to make liquid fuels out of syngas using the haber-Bosch process, but could be a different process.
I thought they used coal...
@@KaLeB_ yes, you’re right. They used coal to make syngas and then liquid petrol. At least that’s what a professor said in university.
How do you know when a saleperson is lying? There lips are moving!
Hahaha. It's a shame that there are some salespeople out there that have given the profession a bad name. It will be interesting to see how sales fare in the future, the business is becoming very data-driven and less reliant on relationships.
Never cared for buzzwords on the oil. If it says 5w40 and full synthetic and its cheap it good for me.
Hi M8, can you pls make comparision of VW specification 509.00 motor oils 0W-20 on the Europe market?????
Why shell do not make 0w/20 in api sp
Everyone should use molybdenum disulphide as a friction modifier. That is all
👍👍
19:40 severe lubrication failure lol
Hahaha
Sigh gotta love unregulated kids in another poorly regulated industry.