How are PAO base oils manufactured?
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- Polyalphaolefin base oils (or PAO base oils) are the most common of all the synthetic base stocks, with wide usage across transport and industrial sectors. With their excellent oxidative stability and cold temperature properties, and an increasing focus on energy efficiency these base stocks are becoming ever more popular. In this video we look at how the ethylene molecule can be polymerised and oligemerised into PAO synthetic lubricants at almost any viscosity required.
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Does PAO stock oil may look more "watery" in room temp than its group III cointerpart despite similar viscocity in CSt at 100C and -30(5W)?
The best lube channel by far. Until you came along it was almost impossible to find proper information on oil's and greases. Thank's for all the super informative video's. 👍🏼👍🏼
Thanks! That comment means a lot.
This is the best channel on UA-cam. I've often struggled to explain things like this to service techs so your clear, concise explanation is extremely helpful.
Thank you, I work in a oil and gas company, your videos help a lot !!!!
Top oils now with Pao+Ester List:
RedLine from United States
Ravenol from Germany
Venol From Russia but also produced in Germany
Amsoil Signature Series From Usa
There is also another decent brands but this ones for me are the best now.
Greetings
Interesting - I haven't really looked into too many engine oil formulations. Usually the racing grades are full PAOs as well.
@@LubricationExplained who's full pao's? Explain the brands and the the name of the oils thank you
I see clearly that Ravenol is PAO+Ester but from Venol I only see some of their "AMG" line being Pao+Ester, can you confirm if Venol has more in their lineup or only the AMG that is Pao+Ester?
I also saw "Champion" and "Cofran" had Pao + Ester.
Is there any full Ester oils? Maybe "Ester core" Motul?
To my knoweledge no automotive market oil are 100% group iv or v oil, all of therm have at least 10% hc, most of them 20% and above@@nesmio7378
I really enjoy your channel!
I'm so glad!
Really useful video on PAO - Highly relevant as 2022 car oils are often 0W-20 and 0W-16 oils (0W-12 on its way?)...Which require significant amount of PAO to pass manufacturer approval tests
TY,,,,,,WOW incredible very interesting great information super kool,
AAAAAAAAAAA++++++++++++ ,keep up the great work
Very useful
Glad to hear that!
Good information
Thanks!
Good morning, around 7:19 you said double bonds are weaker than single bonds, did I understand right?!
If yes I would say that this is not true: double bonds are shorter and stronger compare to single ones (bond energy is around 600 KJ/mol vs. around 350 KJ/mol).
Thanks a lot for feedback and clarification.
In addition I would say thanks for all the video contents of your channel, it's easy understandable and well reported.
Regards
Ahh yes, good clarification. Meant to say that a single sigma bond is more difficult to break than the sp hybridised second bond in a double bond. So I guess I’m comparing a single bond, with one bond in a double bond.
@@LubricationExplained may be you mean weaker for oxidation
Catrol Edge and Mobil 1 list "1 Decene" in their SDS' but the maximum percentage I've seen is about 50% with Catrol Edge 0W-40. Even Mobil 1's 0W-40 (which is considered a premium grade oil) has only 20% 1 decene content. What exactly is the percentage of decene required to derive substantial benefits from these PAOs?
Truthfully the answer is 1% - because each additional % of PAO displacing a lower-quality base stock will enhance performance.
On top of that, not all PAOs are equal. mPAO technology gives better performance than cPAO, so you need less of it in a bottle to enhance performance.
There is also the question of what the rest of the lubricant is made from. For example, not all GpIII base oils are equal - Shell's GTL technology is marketed as GpIII+ because it has performance characteristics that start to approach a cPAO at a lower price point. On top of that, some engine oils may contain higher proportions of synthetic esters, which generally do not need to be specified on the SDS but have synthetic performance properties.
Finally, there is the blend. Formulators can blend two different base oils in ways that enhance the overall performance of the lubricant.
Hope that helps!
Poly Alpha olefin and base oil use
This is really great, thanks much for the video!
So if alpha-olefins by definitions have a double bond in the first position, the final hydrotreated PAO have no double bonds. So...PAO lubes aren't technically "olefins"?
That’s right!
@@LubricationExplained Thank you!!
What is synthetic oil made from the acid destruction process
I have no chemical background aside from a bit in the medical side. I'm also a former Auto/Diesel tech so this is extremely interesting, at least to the extent I follow. What I'd like to see is a comparasin between a good V like Redline and a PAO if anybody makes a pure PAO any more.
Hi! And thanks for your questions. I think there are still a handful of companies making PAO-based products. Amsoil springs to mind, but you're correct in that most of the "full synthetics" are actually Group III's in the engine oil world. It's a little difficult to make comparisons between engine oils, as the performance really depends on the application. But generally, PAO's are going to come out on top for oxidation stability, energy efficiency and wear protection. POE's come out on top for thermal stability - that's important in the turbo, but their big weakness is that they are sensitive to hydrolysis (breaking down in the presence of water).
Amsoil is a true PAO oil and I believe Mobil 1 extended performance is no other mobil oils are just their extended performance. Amsoil and red line are phenomenal oils but I think red line is geared more towards racing and most of amsoils products are geared more towards extended drain intervals although they have some racing oils also
@@trackpackgt877 No it's not. Hasn't been in a while now. Used to say in big letters "100% PAO", not anymore. I wrote off to Amsoil they said their oil is a mixture of bases.
They're relying on their reputation and have cheapened out. There are true PAOs out there like Ravenol (at least some) but I don't think any are made in America.
Amsoil may have a limited amount that is, but by in large they're just a mixture now like Mobil 1. Which uses 3, 4, and 5 base stocks in it's mix
@@trackpackgt877 From Amsoil
Answer: AMSOIL maintains formulation details as proprietary and does not divulge specifics regarding the type of synthetic base stocks used in its synthetic lubricants. AMSOIL developed the world’s first API-qualified synthetic motor oil in 1972 and has remained the leader in the synthetic lubricant industry by continually researching new technologies and demanding only the highest-quality raw materials. As the company moves forward with new technologies it is increasingly more important that this information remains proprietary. AMSOIL views synthetic base oils the same as it views additives, with each having its own set of unique properties. AMSOIL does not insist on a particular type of base stock, but insists on particular performance parameters. AMSOIL chooses whichever synthetic base stock or combination of base stocks delivers the desired result and tailors its lubricants to be application-specific (gasoline, diesel, racing, transmission, gear, extended drain, extreme temperatures, etc.). At the end of the day, the type of base stock used to formulate the oil is inconsequential; the product’s performance is what matters.
I've heard it said other places that the best oil would be 1/2 PAO and 1/2 Ester like redline. My personal is that even the mixes like Mobil 1, PP ultra and the like are "good enough" for 99% of the time, just change them regularly. I don't dislike Amsoil, Just don't want to pay $18 a quart when I can get 5 Mobil 1 for $22.
@@datsuntoyy I was never on the Amsoil train either until recently I always ran mobile one extended performance religiously a local store started carrying Amsoil Signature Series and I thought I'll give that a try within 300 miles I got a 10% increase in fuel mileage same viscosity as before which means 10% friction reduction on top of that my truck used to roll over three times fire and then get oil pressure like every other vehicle now by the third time it's rolled over it has full oil pressure before it even fires I was blown away because I thought I was running a really good synthetic before now I am on the amsoil train just like everybody else didn't buy into it until I finally ran it now I won't run anything else generator muscle car modern muscle car dirt bike lawn mower it's like my engines were being held back and now all the sudden they're set free like they were running honey before you can feel the reduced friction in them it's insane I imagine you can get the same results with red line but I tried Amsoil and now I'm staying LOL appreciate the information
Hello Rafe, could you spend some clarification about Metaloce PAO, mPAO? B. Regards
Non branched PAOs are "metalsin pao" - I didn't get the word right. Please clarify.
“Metallocene” PAO. It sometimes gets called mPAO for short.
Would the Shell PurePlus base oil be considered as PAO since it's made with natural gas?
Great question! PurePlus is the market name for a technology called GTL (gas to liquid) which as you pointed out takes natural gas and turns it into base oil. The technology is currently categorised as Group III, or sometimes you will see it as Group III+. It isn’t classed as a Group IV PAO for a couple of reasons - firstly it isn’t made from linear olefins, but secondly natural gas isn’t as “pure” a raw material as ethylene gas. Natural gas will contain methane, propane, butane, but also carbon dioxide, hydrogen sulphide and nitrogen. As a result of the minor impurities, the base oil properties of a GTL are very good - but not quite on the same level as a PAO. Hope that explanation helps!
@@LubricationExplained great explanation, thanks!
Can you tell me about penrite motor oil? Is real full syntetic pao's based? And the meguin motor oil too? Thank you
Hi! It's hard to give specifics without knowing the formulation. Most "full synthetic" motor oils these days are Group III based oils, and use of PAOs tends to be confined to niche products like the racing oils. For Penrith, that would be their 10 Tenths products.
Meguin german brand rich and good quality for oirls acea a3/b4 full saps based . Meguin SuperLeichtLauf
Yeah penrite does have pao / ester oil, but they call it racing oil (premium synthetic). I've been using it.
Do you know how much of Amsoil motorcycle oils are PAO based?
No unfortunately - generally lubricant manufacturers withhold details of the base oil mix and additive package. It’s often considered proprietary.
All Amsoil motor oils use PAO base stock.
If u want pure pao or at least group III+, ravenol for the win!
Amsoil says they use Group III base oil
@@mlbabineaux They built their reputation on "100% PAO" and now it's essentially the same kind of base oil as everybody else yet is still has the cult like following.
Woosh, right over my head, too compilated.
is Olive oil like vegetable oil or what??
Why do PAO’s attack seal oil?
Unpleasant sounding audio, too much overload distortion.