How are PAO base oils manufactured?

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  • Опубліковано 10 чер 2024
  • Polyalphaolefin base oils (or PAO base oils) are the most common of all the synthetic base stocks, with wide usage across transport and industrial sectors. With their excellent oxidative stability and cold temperature properties, and an increasing focus on energy efficiency these base stocks are becoming ever more popular. In this video we look at how the ethylene molecule can be polymerised and oligemerised into PAO synthetic lubricants at almost any viscosity required.
    Here at Lubrication Expert we take a first-principles approach to lubricants and greases; helping industry understand lubrication technology and pushing the limits of what is possible.
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 63

  • @LubricationExplained
    @LubricationExplained  Рік тому +2

    Looking for more structured lubrication courses? Join LE Pro for $30AUD per month (that's about 20USD). lubrication.expert/product/le-pro/

    • @8359s
      @8359s Рік тому

      Does PAO stock oil may look more "watery" in room temp than its group III cointerpart despite similar viscocity in CSt at 100C and -30(5W)?

  • @MrTimstaaa
    @MrTimstaaa 2 роки тому +16

    The best lube channel by far. Until you came along it was almost impossible to find proper information on oil's and greases. Thank's for all the super informative video's. 👍🏼👍🏼

  • @franzwalker1381
    @franzwalker1381 Рік тому +3

    This is the best channel on UA-cam. I've often struggled to explain things like this to service techs so your clear, concise explanation is extremely helpful.

  • @kathussiaeneos3098
    @kathussiaeneos3098 9 місяців тому +1

    Thank you, I work in a oil and gas company, your videos help a lot !!!!

  • @annanoe7325
    @annanoe7325 Рік тому +1

    I really enjoy your channel!

  • @YeiDCalle
    @YeiDCalle 2 роки тому +6

    Top oils now with Pao+Ester List:
    RedLine from United States
    Ravenol from Germany
    Venol From Russia but also produced in Germany
    Amsoil Signature Series From Usa
    There is also another decent brands but this ones for me are the best now.
    Greetings

    • @LubricationExplained
      @LubricationExplained  2 роки тому +2

      Interesting - I haven't really looked into too many engine oil formulations. Usually the racing grades are full PAOs as well.

    • @giuseppep6656
      @giuseppep6656 Рік тому

      @@LubricationExplained who's full pao's? Explain the brands and the the name of the oils thank you

    • @nesmio7378
      @nesmio7378 4 місяці тому +1

      I see clearly that Ravenol is PAO+Ester but from Venol I only see some of their "AMG" line being Pao+Ester, can you confirm if Venol has more in their lineup or only the AMG that is Pao+Ester?
      I also saw "Champion" and "Cofran" had Pao + Ester.
      Is there any full Ester oils? Maybe "Ester core" Motul?

    • @aagoge
      @aagoge 2 місяці тому

      To my knoweledge no automotive market oil are 100% group iv or v oil, all of therm have at least 10% hc, most of them 20% and above​@@nesmio7378

  • @simonm7776
    @simonm7776 Рік тому

    Really useful video on PAO - Highly relevant as 2022 car oils are often 0W-20 and 0W-16 oils (0W-12 on its way?)...Which require significant amount of PAO to pass manufacturer approval tests

  • @tapaspal1967
    @tapaspal1967 Рік тому +1

    Very useful

  • @johnlacroix1639
    @johnlacroix1639 7 місяців тому

    TY,,,,,,WOW incredible very interesting great information super kool,
    AAAAAAAAAAA++++++++++++ ,keep up the great work

  • @mahmoodyunus7618
    @mahmoodyunus7618 2 роки тому +1

    Good information

  • @Lenox00
    @Lenox00 2 роки тому +3

    This is really great, thanks much for the video!
    So if alpha-olefins by definitions have a double bond in the first position, the final hydrotreated PAO have no double bonds. So...PAO lubes aren't technically "olefins"?

  • @giacintogrande
    @giacintogrande 2 роки тому +4

    Good morning, around 7:19 you said double bonds are weaker than single bonds, did I understand right?!
    If yes I would say that this is not true: double bonds are shorter and stronger compare to single ones (bond energy is around 600 KJ/mol vs. around 350 KJ/mol).
    Thanks a lot for feedback and clarification.
    In addition I would say thanks for all the video contents of your channel, it's easy understandable and well reported.
    Regards

    • @LubricationExplained
      @LubricationExplained  2 роки тому +4

      Ahh yes, good clarification. Meant to say that a single sigma bond is more difficult to break than the sp hybridised second bond in a double bond. So I guess I’m comparing a single bond, with one bond in a double bond.

    • @jesusfabian861
      @jesusfabian861 Рік тому +1

      @@LubricationExplained may be you mean weaker for oxidation

  • @DinethCat
    @DinethCat 3 роки тому +3

    Catrol Edge and Mobil 1 list "1 Decene" in their SDS' but the maximum percentage I've seen is about 50% with Catrol Edge 0W-40. Even Mobil 1's 0W-40 (which is considered a premium grade oil) has only 20% 1 decene content. What exactly is the percentage of decene required to derive substantial benefits from these PAOs?

    • @LubricationExplained
      @LubricationExplained  3 роки тому +11

      Truthfully the answer is 1% - because each additional % of PAO displacing a lower-quality base stock will enhance performance.
      On top of that, not all PAOs are equal. mPAO technology gives better performance than cPAO, so you need less of it in a bottle to enhance performance.
      There is also the question of what the rest of the lubricant is made from. For example, not all GpIII base oils are equal - Shell's GTL technology is marketed as GpIII+ because it has performance characteristics that start to approach a cPAO at a lower price point. On top of that, some engine oils may contain higher proportions of synthetic esters, which generally do not need to be specified on the SDS but have synthetic performance properties.
      Finally, there is the blend. Formulators can blend two different base oils in ways that enhance the overall performance of the lubricant.
      Hope that helps!

  • @cmte.brazinazzo2061
    @cmte.brazinazzo2061 Рік тому

    Hello Rafe, could you spend some clarification about Metaloce PAO, mPAO? B. Regards

  • @tonycolca2241
    @tonycolca2241 10 місяців тому

    What is synthetic oil made from the acid destruction process

  • @alexlang5649
    @alexlang5649 3 роки тому +2

    Would the Shell PurePlus base oil be considered as PAO since it's made with natural gas?

    • @LubricationExplained
      @LubricationExplained  3 роки тому +11

      Great question! PurePlus is the market name for a technology called GTL (gas to liquid) which as you pointed out takes natural gas and turns it into base oil. The technology is currently categorised as Group III, or sometimes you will see it as Group III+. It isn’t classed as a Group IV PAO for a couple of reasons - firstly it isn’t made from linear olefins, but secondly natural gas isn’t as “pure” a raw material as ethylene gas. Natural gas will contain methane, propane, butane, but also carbon dioxide, hydrogen sulphide and nitrogen. As a result of the minor impurities, the base oil properties of a GTL are very good - but not quite on the same level as a PAO. Hope that explanation helps!

    • @alexlang5649
      @alexlang5649 3 роки тому +3

      @@LubricationExplained great explanation, thanks!

  • @giuseppep6656
    @giuseppep6656 Рік тому +1

    Can you tell me about penrite motor oil? Is real full syntetic pao's based? And the meguin motor oil too? Thank you

    • @LubricationExplained
      @LubricationExplained  Рік тому

      Hi! It's hard to give specifics without knowing the formulation. Most "full synthetic" motor oils these days are Group III based oils, and use of PAOs tends to be confined to niche products like the racing oils. For Penrith, that would be their 10 Tenths products.

    • @YeiDCalle
      @YeiDCalle 4 місяці тому

      Meguin german brand rich and good quality for oirls acea a3/b4 full saps based . Meguin SuperLeichtLauf

  • @manasatextiles7035
    @manasatextiles7035 2 роки тому +2

    Poly Alpha olefin and base oil use

  • @utahwanderlust700
    @utahwanderlust700 3 роки тому +2

    Do you know how much of Amsoil motorcycle oils are PAO based?

    • @LubricationExplained
      @LubricationExplained  3 роки тому +2

      No unfortunately - generally lubricant manufacturers withhold details of the base oil mix and additive package. It’s often considered proprietary.

    • @texaskidzuk
      @texaskidzuk 3 роки тому +1

      All Amsoil motor oils use PAO base stock.

    • @mahasiswacumlaude3743
      @mahasiswacumlaude3743 2 роки тому +2

      If u want pure pao or at least group III+, ravenol for the win!

    • @mlbabineaux
      @mlbabineaux 2 роки тому +1

      Amsoil says they use Group III base oil

    • @datsuntoyy
      @datsuntoyy Рік тому

      @@mlbabineaux They built their reputation on "100% PAO" and now it's essentially the same kind of base oil as everybody else yet is still has the cult like following.

  • @manojsrivastava8931
    @manojsrivastava8931 2 роки тому +1

    Non branched PAOs are "metalsin pao" - I didn't get the word right. Please clarify.

  • @datsuntoyy
    @datsuntoyy Рік тому +2

    I have no chemical background aside from a bit in the medical side. I'm also a former Auto/Diesel tech so this is extremely interesting, at least to the extent I follow. What I'd like to see is a comparasin between a good V like Redline and a PAO if anybody makes a pure PAO any more.

    • @LubricationExplained
      @LubricationExplained  Рік тому +3

      Hi! And thanks for your questions. I think there are still a handful of companies making PAO-based products. Amsoil springs to mind, but you're correct in that most of the "full synthetics" are actually Group III's in the engine oil world. It's a little difficult to make comparisons between engine oils, as the performance really depends on the application. But generally, PAO's are going to come out on top for oxidation stability, energy efficiency and wear protection. POE's come out on top for thermal stability - that's important in the turbo, but their big weakness is that they are sensitive to hydrolysis (breaking down in the presence of water).

    • @trackpackgt877
      @trackpackgt877 Рік тому

      Amsoil is a true PAO oil and I believe Mobil 1 extended performance is no other mobil oils are just their extended performance. Amsoil and red line are phenomenal oils but I think red line is geared more towards racing and most of amsoils products are geared more towards extended drain intervals although they have some racing oils also

    • @datsuntoyy
      @datsuntoyy Рік тому +2

      @@trackpackgt877 No it's not. Hasn't been in a while now. Used to say in big letters "100% PAO", not anymore. I wrote off to Amsoil they said their oil is a mixture of bases.
      They're relying on their reputation and have cheapened out. There are true PAOs out there like Ravenol (at least some) but I don't think any are made in America.
      Amsoil may have a limited amount that is, but by in large they're just a mixture now like Mobil 1. Which uses 3, 4, and 5 base stocks in it's mix

    • @datsuntoyy
      @datsuntoyy Рік тому +2

      @@trackpackgt877 From Amsoil
      Answer: AMSOIL maintains formulation details as proprietary and does not divulge specifics regarding the type of synthetic base stocks used in its synthetic lubricants. AMSOIL developed the world’s first API-qualified synthetic motor oil in 1972 and has remained the leader in the synthetic lubricant industry by continually researching new technologies and demanding only the highest-quality raw materials. As the company moves forward with new technologies it is increasingly more important that this information remains proprietary. AMSOIL views synthetic base oils the same as it views additives, with each having its own set of unique properties. AMSOIL does not insist on a particular type of base stock, but insists on particular performance parameters. AMSOIL chooses whichever synthetic base stock or combination of base stocks delivers the desired result and tailors its lubricants to be application-specific (gasoline, diesel, racing, transmission, gear, extended drain, extreme temperatures, etc.). At the end of the day, the type of base stock used to formulate the oil is inconsequential; the product’s performance is what matters.
      I've heard it said other places that the best oil would be 1/2 PAO and 1/2 Ester like redline. My personal is that even the mixes like Mobil 1, PP ultra and the like are "good enough" for 99% of the time, just change them regularly. I don't dislike Amsoil, Just don't want to pay $18 a quart when I can get 5 Mobil 1 for $22.

    • @trackpackgt877
      @trackpackgt877 Рік тому +3

      @@datsuntoyy I was never on the Amsoil train either until recently I always ran mobile one extended performance religiously a local store started carrying Amsoil Signature Series and I thought I'll give that a try within 300 miles I got a 10% increase in fuel mileage same viscosity as before which means 10% friction reduction on top of that my truck used to roll over three times fire and then get oil pressure like every other vehicle now by the third time it's rolled over it has full oil pressure before it even fires I was blown away because I thought I was running a really good synthetic before now I am on the amsoil train just like everybody else didn't buy into it until I finally ran it now I won't run anything else generator muscle car modern muscle car dirt bike lawn mower it's like my engines were being held back and now all the sudden they're set free like they were running honey before you can feel the reduced friction in them it's insane I imagine you can get the same results with red line but I tried Amsoil and now I'm staying LOL appreciate the information

  • @racghineering
    @racghineering 9 місяців тому

    is Olive oil like vegetable oil or what??

  • @armedfarm3429
    @armedfarm3429 2 роки тому +2

    Woosh, right over my head, too compilated.

  • @danielseguraroman6264
    @danielseguraroman6264 10 місяців тому +1

    Why do PAO’s attack seal oil?

  • @xavieraxiak6866
    @xavieraxiak6866 5 місяців тому

    Unpleasant sounding audio, too much overload distortion.