Looks like ***** winning mixtures. PB83 will just continue to be a pigment of my imagination. Adding this to my permanent list of favorites. Your Summer haul 2024 video has a lot of great information too.
Awesome! Excellent recommendations for substitutes. I really wish I had some Random Grey to send. Anyone? My favorite is adding potter's pink to the mix for granulation. A trick I wished I'd known a lot sooner. Did a whole study on it, where I added viridian to greens, pp to pinks and reds, cobalts to blues and the trans oxides to earths to push granulation. It was a ton of fun!
I Love these mixing videos...I still consider myself a newbie to water color and watching how you mix all the colors makes me realize I won't need a million different pallets of paint to get the colors I want...I save all the mixes so I can refer to them later on...thanks Angela for making these videos it helps a lot...HUGS HUGS HUGS from sunny warm NS...I hope you have a great day
I strongly recommend PR179 mixed with P19 yu get a perfect replacement fro Alarin crimson and iff you mix it with a warmer red you get a wonderful deep red.
I will have to try them, I am having a chuckle at myself that I tried the PR264 and PV19 together but didn't try any of the others in two pigment combinations. PR264 is also such a close match on its own. It is what replaced Carmine and the Alizarin Crimson in my DS palette.
Thank you for talking about it! I once used „permanent alizarin crimson“ from DS, and later discovered it was not permanent. Its main ingredient is PR177 which is almost the same thing as PR83. Trust me, it’s awful, I tested it. I had to mix something as close as possible to be consistent in a series of paintings. So.. my mix was PR179+ red PV19+ a bit of PR178. If I didn’t have to match it, my best options would be PV19+either PR179 or PBr25. Or even use single pigment PR179 in its red version (Roman Szmal has it) or PR264, Schmincke and RS ones are highly lightfast! Now for the new series I have both PV19 quin ref and PBr25 on my palette and it gives me amazing versatility.
Names can be deceiving, we see permanent and think ok, that will last, but it is so important to know the pigments in that, because paint manufacturers can name a color anything they want and permanent in a name doesn't necessarily mean permanence in application.
Holbein has permanent alizarin crimson which is a mix of PV19 and PBr25, I am not sure if you tried hose two together but it is a very nice colour and LF. I was also doing some mixes with Potter's Pink today and I love the idea of having it in the mix! Thank you for the video
Yes I need to try those, I am laughing at myself because in all the experimenting, I never tried just the PV19 and PR179 or PBr25 together on their own. Which just goes to show there can be more than one way to journey to any given destination.
Thank you. PR 83 is such a lovely colour, it's sad that so many red or violet pigments are not highly lightfast especially as tints. The PR264 looks like it's worth a try and I like PR179. Pigments are so interesting.
Perylene maroon is much more similar to traditional alazarin crimson than any of the other choices. I would not take DS as a start point, but one of the European makers like Sennelier that have a longer tradition as colourmakers. Also observe Alazarin crimson in actual use by artists. The original is sort of brownish in undertone which is why, in dilute form it made such a good colour for portraiture. All the mixes here are too pink.
@@lindyashford7744 sometimes the translation of color in video can be a bit different than in person as well. Side by side on my paper the mix and PR83 were looking almost exactly the same.
I hope you’re remembering that some fugitive colors with low lightfastness ratings fade to black rather than fade to no color. This color shift when exposed to light affect any color you may have mixed with your ‘fugitive’ color. For example a nice shade of violet…may darken if mixed with Alizarin Crimson. (My experience with the pigment has been with oil painting….I don’t have it in my current watercolor palette.) So thank your for finding a good mix…and I hope you do start testing for light fastness. You might get a few surprises along your journey.
Absolutely loved your humour and clip from The Fugitive 😂. It’s such a shame about alizarin, it’s such a gorgeous colour. And when mixed with cad yellow in a stormy sky will separate out beautifully. Alas only suitable for practice and sketchbooks 😢 As a tone I’m extremely fond of PR176 which DS have as Carmine or Roman Szmal uses it for perm alizarin. For me personally, I think very good is still lightfast enough for me. But very useful research. Thank you.
Thank you and yes what is acceptable for some can greatly differ and it is ok to enjoy and use all the colors we love. I certainly won't let that tube of PR83 go to waste, it will be perfect in my sketchbooks or for things I wish to scan and turn into prints, in those types of artworks lightfast ratings don't matter one bit.
I studied handprint religiously for years. I love that website. I had a few conversations with Bruce, the creator a few years ago. I have found that PR83 or PR83.1 are slightly different from Brand to brand also. PR83.1 is Alizarin Lake, the synthetic version of PR83. Schmincke makes it. It is a bit better than PR83. But its not excellent either. I don't have a problem with using a pigment listed as very good. Reds and pinks historically have less light-fast properties. Most PV19 pigments are not excellent light-fastness if you do your own tests at home. I don't care what the company claims. I test them myself. I tested PR177 and it faded. Not as much as Alizarin but it did fade. Kimberly Crick on UA-cam tested Daniel Smith brand of PR177 and it faded plenty. I totally hate Perylene Maroon. Ugly even in mixes. LOL. I use PR 264 in other brands. However it's still not as transparent as the real deal. I put a touch of Daniel Smith Perylene Scarlet with Quinacridone Magenta, PR202. Mind blowing beautiful.
Thanks for the suggestion of the last two, that does sound like a beautiful combo. Handprint is such a great resource of info. I love the Kim has done so much testing as well.
My other question is how do the companies test the lightfastness. Because if you putting a medium in the sun and that medium is not very lightfast in its entirely. Why do it? Watercolors is not very lightfast anyway. You need to protect it anyway. So I am confuse. I am not being funny I am trying to understand lightfastness.
Some artists turn their watercolors into digital art, so they don't mind if it is fugitive. Some people working in sketchbooks don't mind either. Personally, I avoid fugitive paints like the plague, lol.
But all the pigments with fade. It’s just a matter of how long it will take. I don’t understand. When I buy watercolor pictures I know the with fade. When I buy acrylic or oil pictures I expect them to last. Maybe because I am so new to watercolors that I am missing the point.
There are lightfast watercolors. They use the same type of lightfast pigments that are in your acrylic or oil paints, the only difference is the binder. When I choose a lightfast pigment I am looking for one that is rated as excellent and estimates the pigment won’t fade in the next 100 years. However, can we also acknowledge that the fine print on lightfast ratings regardless of medium reads *under museum quality conditions. So not on a wall with a south facing window letting the light blast onto the painting. There is the Blue Wool scale and the ASTM, companies sometimes do their lightfast tests according to one of these and some set their ratings based on the typical rating of the pigment they are using. How the different companies test would be a question that would have to be asked of each company individually that you are interested in. Most have contact us on their websites and you can usually reach out and ask how they derive their lightfast ratings. When I paint a watercolor that I am going to sell, I only use excellent lightfast rated colors and I do not expect my watercolor paintings to fade.
Thank you soooo much. Now I understand thats where I was getting confuse “ under museum conditions” so I was under the impression that the pigments was not lightfast. Because it was not in the museum. Thank you again for helping me. I love your mixing videos. I have been getting my paints to mix but realize I didn’t write down the pigments number. I was lucky that i thought I might need the wrappers so I kept them.
@@alexandriadesrameaux7208 You are welcome. Also, museum conditions at home would be taking the precautions to ensure it is exposed to as little UV as possible. So if you have a watercolor you want to protect, framing it under UV class will go a long way to help protect it.
Love the fugitive clip!
I thought that would be fun.
Looks like ***** winning mixtures. PB83 will just continue to be a pigment of my imagination. Adding this to my permanent list of favorites. Your Summer haul 2024 video has a lot of great information too.
Glad you found the information helpful.
Awesome! Excellent recommendations for substitutes. I really wish I had some Random Grey to send. Anyone?
My favorite is adding potter's pink to the mix for granulation. A trick I wished I'd known a lot sooner. Did a whole study on it, where I added viridian to greens, pp to pinks and reds, cobalts to blues and the trans oxides to earths to push granulation. It was a ton of fun!
Granulating mixes are so much fun to make and use, especially in landscapes. Texture simplified.
I Love these mixing videos...I still consider myself a newbie to water color and watching how you mix all the colors makes me realize I won't need a million different pallets of paint to get the colors I want...I save all the mixes so I can refer to them later on...thanks Angela for making these videos it helps a lot...HUGS HUGS HUGS from sunny warm NS...I hope you have a great day
You definitely don't need all the different palettes of paint. I am glad these are helping. Good day from your neighbor in sunny Maine.
I strongly recommend PR179 mixed with P19 yu get a perfect replacement fro Alarin crimson and iff you mix it with a warmer red you get a wonderful deep red.
I will have to try them, I am having a chuckle at myself that I tried the PR264 and PV19 together but didn't try any of the others in two pigment combinations. PR264 is also such a close match on its own. It is what replaced Carmine and the Alizarin Crimson in my DS palette.
Haha! That clip was cute!!! 🥰 Love it!
Glad you enjoyed that. Always the first thing that comes to mind when I think fugative.
@@ClarkFineArt adorable! 🥰
This was awesome!
Thank you.
Thank you for talking about it! I once used „permanent alizarin crimson“ from DS, and later discovered it was not permanent. Its main ingredient is PR177 which is almost the same thing as PR83. Trust me, it’s awful, I tested it.
I had to mix something as close as possible to be consistent in a series of paintings. So.. my mix was PR179+ red PV19+ a bit of PR178.
If I didn’t have to match it, my best options would be PV19+either PR179 or PBr25. Or even use single pigment PR179 in its red version (Roman Szmal has it) or PR264, Schmincke and RS ones are highly lightfast!
Now for the new series I have both PV19 quin ref and PBr25 on my palette and it gives me amazing versatility.
Names can be deceiving, we see permanent and think ok, that will last, but it is so important to know the pigments in that, because paint manufacturers can name a color anything they want and permanent in a name doesn't necessarily mean permanence in application.
Holbein has permanent alizarin crimson which is a mix of PV19 and PBr25, I am not sure if you tried hose two together but it is a very nice colour and LF. I was also doing some mixes with Potter's Pink today and I love the idea of having it in the mix! Thank you for the video
Yes I need to try those, I am laughing at myself because in all the experimenting, I never tried just the PV19 and PR179 or PBr25 together on their own. Which just goes to show there can be more than one way to journey to any given destination.
Thank you. PR 83 is such a lovely colour, it's sad that so many red or violet pigments are not highly lightfast especially as tints.
The PR264 looks like it's worth a try and I like PR179. Pigments are so interesting.
I agree. The PR264 is what I ordered to replace the Carmine on my palette because I wanted something that would have an excellent lightfast rating.
Perylene maroon is much more similar to traditional alazarin crimson than any of the other choices. I would not take DS as a start point, but one of the European makers like Sennelier that have a longer tradition as colourmakers. Also observe Alazarin crimson in actual use by artists. The original is sort of brownish in undertone which is why, in dilute form it made such a good colour for portraiture. All the mixes here are too pink.
@@lindyashford7744 sometimes the translation of color in video can be a bit different than in person as well. Side by side on my paper the mix and PR83 were looking almost exactly the same.
I hope you’re remembering that some fugitive colors with low lightfastness ratings fade to black rather than fade to no color. This color shift when exposed to light affect any color you may have mixed with your ‘fugitive’ color. For example a nice shade of violet…may darken if mixed with Alizarin Crimson. (My experience with the pigment has been with oil painting….I don’t have it in my current watercolor palette.)
So thank your for finding a good mix…and I hope you do start testing for light fastness. You might get a few surprises along your journey.
Thanks for more info on how it might fade.
Absolutely loved your humour and clip from The Fugitive 😂. It’s such a shame about alizarin, it’s such a gorgeous colour. And when mixed with cad yellow in a stormy sky will separate out beautifully. Alas only suitable for practice and sketchbooks 😢 As a tone I’m extremely fond of PR176 which DS have as Carmine or Roman Szmal uses it for perm alizarin. For me personally, I think very good is still lightfast enough for me. But very useful research. Thank you.
Thank you and yes what is acceptable for some can greatly differ and it is ok to enjoy and use all the colors we love. I certainly won't let that tube of PR83 go to waste, it will be perfect in my sketchbooks or for things I wish to scan and turn into prints, in those types of artworks lightfast ratings don't matter one bit.
@@ClarkFineArt as another fugitive amazing red, have you tried the retro cochineal by Schmincke? I wasn’t sure what to expect, but it was beautiful.
@@suzisandpiper I have not used that one.
Thank you for doing this and yes I am a she😊
I thought so, but didn’t want to make assumptions. You are welcome, hope you found it helpful for something to create a granulating alizarin crimson.
@@ClarkFineArt I did thank you
You should success your mixture to the Daniel Smith companie and they should manufacture it maybe with the name "Clark Alizarin Crimson"
Wouldn't that be something?!
I studied handprint religiously for years. I love that website. I had a few conversations with Bruce, the creator a few years ago. I have found that PR83 or PR83.1 are slightly different from Brand to brand also. PR83.1 is Alizarin Lake, the synthetic version of PR83. Schmincke makes it. It is a bit better than PR83. But its not excellent either.
I don't have a problem with using a pigment listed as very good. Reds and pinks historically have less light-fast properties. Most PV19 pigments are not excellent light-fastness if you do your own tests at home. I don't care what the company claims. I test them myself. I tested PR177 and it faded. Not as much as Alizarin but it did fade. Kimberly Crick on UA-cam tested Daniel Smith brand of PR177 and it faded plenty. I totally hate Perylene Maroon. Ugly even in mixes. LOL. I use PR 264 in other brands. However it's still not as transparent as the real deal. I put a touch of Daniel Smith Perylene Scarlet with Quinacridone Magenta, PR202. Mind blowing beautiful.
Thanks for the suggestion of the last two, that does sound like a beautiful combo. Handprint is such a great resource of info. I love the Kim has done so much testing as well.
My other question is how do the companies test the lightfastness. Because if you putting a medium in the sun and that medium is not very lightfast in its entirely. Why do it? Watercolors is not very lightfast anyway. You need to protect it anyway. So I am confuse. I am not being funny I am trying to understand lightfastness.
Some artists turn their watercolors into digital art, so they don't mind if it is fugitive. Some people working in sketchbooks don't mind either. Personally, I avoid fugitive paints like the plague, lol.
But all the pigments with fade. It’s just a matter of how long it will take. I don’t understand. When I buy watercolor pictures I know the with fade. When I buy acrylic or oil pictures I expect them to last. Maybe because I am so new to watercolors that I am missing the point.
There are lightfast watercolors. They use the same type of lightfast pigments that are in your acrylic or oil paints, the only difference is the binder. When I choose a lightfast pigment I am looking for one that is rated as excellent and estimates the pigment won’t fade in the next 100 years. However, can we also acknowledge that the fine print on lightfast ratings regardless of medium reads *under museum quality conditions. So not on a wall with a south facing window letting the light blast onto the painting. There is the Blue Wool scale and the ASTM, companies sometimes do their lightfast tests according to one of these and some set their ratings based on the typical rating of the pigment they are using. How the different companies test would be a question that would have to be asked of each company individually that you are interested in. Most have contact us on their websites and you can usually reach out and ask how they derive their lightfast ratings. When I paint a watercolor that I am going to sell, I only use excellent lightfast rated colors and I do not expect my watercolor paintings to fade.
Thank you soooo much. Now I understand thats where I was getting confuse “ under museum conditions” so I was under the impression that the pigments was not lightfast. Because it was not in the museum. Thank you again for helping me. I love your mixing videos. I have been getting my paints to mix but realize I didn’t write down the pigments number. I was lucky that i thought I might need the wrappers so I kept them.
@@alexandriadesrameaux7208 You are welcome. Also, museum conditions at home would be taking the precautions to ensure it is exposed to as little UV as possible. So if you have a watercolor you want to protect, framing it under UV class will go a long way to help protect it.
I thought as a whole reds are not lightfast..
A lot are not, but there are a few.
There are several modern red pigment that are perfectly lightfast and yu don't even need to use cadmiums. 50 years ago the situation was different.