Marvel's Spider-Man 2: An In-Depth Critique
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- Опубліковано 19 січ 2024
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Marvel's Spider-Man 2 has finally dropped and it seems no one can agree whether it was even ready to. In this critique/review, we'll learn that both sides are right.
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Yeah, I'm late to the party on Spider-Man 2 but let's be honest, when am I early? Thanks for waiting. This was a stunningly controversial game, and playing it, I was just as conflicted. Wish Insomniac the best following their unfortunate leaks. If you're aware of them, I do *hope* to cover whatever they've got cooking, Spider-Man or not.
bro
Raid sucks homie
dude have a think about who you are sponsored by. i know it's important to make an income, but i can't believe these parasites were your only option.
It never stops being funny when video game commentators who critique video games for its flaws shill shit predatory mobile games that they would never play willingly.
please do any of the last of us series old version and new for both 1 and 2
I give it three minutes before he mentions Web of Shadows.
He actually lasted longer. I know, I was surprised too.
It took about 6 minutes and 30 seconds but close.
6:30
6
Second instance is 10:44
I hope Insomniac sees this video. I had fun playing the game but jesus do I agree with this video on so much. The bland characters, the janky boss fights, the podcasts. Game just felt rushed and incomplete.
I LOVE YOU ZANNY BEAR MY CHILDREN
Agreed, there’s definitely reasons that it didn’t get GOTY.
I tend to find Spider-Man remastered having better fighting mechanics because I get to use all the web gadgets. The only thing I prefer in the second game is the web swinging. The fighting seems downgraded.
Zanny!!!
Zanny! Big fan been here since Battlefront 2.
You could use your channel to spread the word
"They talk like their employers are watching" is maybe the best description of how these characters talk that I've ever heard
Fr😭
oh now you realized
They probably were watching
yeah
That's a result of the script being filtered through DEI companies like SweetBaby Inc. They were very proud of their involvement in the writing of SM2.
YES! White is the only reviewer to mention that depraved politeness that soaks the Insomniac Spider-Man universe. There's no grit, there's little to no seriousness and the stakes just don't feel very real when "corrupted" characters vent frustrations that feel as significant as accidentally kicking a table leg and hurting your toe. If a character in Insomniac Spider-Man games dropped their coffee by accident, they'd say something like "Gosh, darn it! What a fumble!", only for 4 more characters INCLUDING f*cking Spider-Man swooping down with praise and relief like "Are you kidding!? You're such an AMAZING person, everything you say is so effervescent and you're an irreplaceable beacon to this bustling city!" and then the character would invent an app that prevents people from ever dropping coffees by installing nano mechs inside of Earth's core that detects the presence of coffee in the atmosphere and reverses the Earth's gravitational polarity, because everyone in this goddamn world is a more brilliant scientist than Goku's father
cackling rn, right on point,
This is what happens when you contract a company like Sweet Baby Inc. Get ready to see it a lot more in the future
“Depraved politeness” in the same sentence is crazy.
@@neverbeganforme Is it wrong though?
@@dahakaguardianofthetimelin4780 ain’t nothing wrong with being polite
Unlike the first game, not having comic book writers working on the narrative was very apparent. It was like Arkham Knight’s lack of Paul Dini, all over again.
God, that's what I was reminded of.
At least Knight when it changed perspective was pretty cool like seeing the fear toxin through a cops eyes or being jump scared by Batman literally teleporting behind Jim
@@creed8712 Agreed, Knight has very neat moments. But @MTMuppet's point is pretty well validated by Arkham Knight because they practically adapted an existing comic book story in Under the Red Hood and somehow made it worse or less interesting
@@NateMulderoh no if you think its lesser or worse than the Under The Red Hood then you're entirely wrong considering that Arkham Knight did something very different and unique with Batmans no kill rule in Arkham Knight to which it how it corresponds with the whole Fear integration with Batman...
That's exactly what it was. The first game has this comic book hero feel that couldn't even be replicated in Miles Morales neither.
This is an incredibly cathartic video, the line “they talk like their employers are listening” is so accurate and better than I could’ve ever worded it.
Yup, this game's story and plot felt incredibly safe but I didn't know how to word it. Whitelight explained it really well.
In my opinion the dilagoue is awful in this game, can't stand listening character talk in this game so much that turned off the audio of Spiderman 2 and add my own Pop song's and create the dilagoue in my own head.
It’s very corporate.
Really made me appreciate the dialogue in the Spider-Verse movies. Things like Miles' scrubby Spanish, or Miguel cursing in Spanish, or Hobie using British slangs really add a lot to not just the characters, but make the dialogues seem really punchy and dynamic. Insomniac's Spider-Man 2 doesn't really have that. It's too clean.
That's exactly what it was, too, he hit the nail on the head. They're so sterile around each other, there's very little back and forth and charisma.
When you talked about dialogues of characters around miles, i remembered what my friend said "its like one of those company HR videos where they tell you how to be a good person, so sanitised and on the nose that you can't help but feel you are in a school class"
Literally felt like my high school wrote the dialogue for this game
The writing is this game be like:
The good guys: "We don't have to fight! Let's just hold hands!"
The bad guys: "Oh no... No I don't deserve it... You're too kind- I will kill myself instead!"
Exactly its a psa for kids on how to share xddd or like a kidz bop video made by your local church
Thats overall problem with insomniac Miles - he feels like activist instead of hero. After Lee he is deprived of any really villians on only fights with corporate injusticies etc. His world is too clean and nice to have villian like Kingpin.
@@jesustyronechrist2330 Nothing Like That, No.....
Crazy how Insomniac went from their edgy humour and anti-consumerism messages in their early R&C days to making the most bland, generic, cookie cutter, safe dialogue in their recent games.
Yea it really shows, compare Ratchet and Clank 1-3 to 2016 and Rift Apart.
Can the o sweet baby inc for that.
Now they are pro-consumerism.
Disagree the dialogue in this game was good
@@hatchell18 shill bot detected.
Between Insomniac touting this game as their “Empire Strikes Back” years ago, and the creative director confirming a lot of content got cut, I can only assume this game suffered from Marvel/Sony interference. That’s evident in Miles’ evolved suit being a literal ad.
Its basically confirmed that Sony did, they didnt like the back half of the game and Insomniac and Sony execs had an argument
@@smileysuburban8146Sony didn’t like the Symbiote elements?
@@MTMuppetmaybe they thought it was encroaching too much on their Venom movies?
So.....arguments with sony and inference affected a Spider Man title where Venom is one of the main antagonist? Gee why does that sound familiar....
@@smileysuburban8146Jesus Christ so they literally just did a Spiderman 3 fuck up AGAIN????
I am genuinely so happy someone else mentioned how ‘polite’ all the characters are - to an awkward degree. It completely robs every interaction of any sort of drama. Everyone is so goddamn clean with one another, with all positivity, and inclusiveness, and absolutely no abrasion whatsoever. I am absolutely someone who believes in basic human decency, tolerance, and inclusivity of ALL types of people. But when the entire story of the game is a squeaky clean list of talking points where everyone accepts every single flaw in each other and the world at all times, it’s boring. So goddamn boring. And makes the explosive encounters where characters air their feelings so out of place.
I’m rambling but i’m just glad i’m not the only one who felt this way about this story
Its a childrens game
The new ratchet and clank had the same problem iirc
yeah, i agree. games like Baldur’s gate 3 prove that you can write games to be as inclusive and tolerant as possible while also retaining the ability to write strong, potentially abrasive, characters
Starfield as well. Even the pirates were fairly reserved and calm.
@@kalstoniishut up
This is pretty much a perfect critique of the game. It's got quite a lot of fair and insightful criticism that Insomniac should 100% be listening to, but doesn't fail to acknowledge the games many strengths. It's honestly quite refreshing to get such a nuanced and well though out take on the game after being subjected to months of people going back and fourth about whether the game is a masterpiece or complete trash.
Ever heard of personal opinions?
Critiquing games is more like an opinion piece than a “right and wrong”.
I liked the strong webs like the mine + using them on stealth.
I liked the many “ultimates” of Peter instead of turning the Symbiote + Iron Spider into the only “Ultimates”.
Weapon wheels aren’t inherently bad and you could master the positions to make them pause the game for less than a second instead of a pause menu… in fact JRPG player praise those pauses to create a strategy, and even some Souls players praised Sekiro for actually pausing the game.
And finally, for all he speaks… his gameplay is quite bad. He never said it, but it’s clear his 2 playthroughs were 1 on his “personal difficulty” and the second was probably the hardest and called out people who call this game easy as a shield to hide his skill issues.
So in conclusion, there is no “perfect critique”. And this video serves as an opinion piece. Insomniac shouldn’t listen to everything this guy said… but some of it.
So to end this with 2 quick examples.
1) Insomniac has already listened to the majority of players by adding the removal of swing-assist and therefore adding depth to the game.
2) The main issues that the guy mentions actually have a target that he didn’t recognize. The writer of the game.
Writer in gaming have to deal with the struggle of telling a story and injecting gameplay sections.
The writer in this game was bad and therefore the moments she wanted to create with MJ fall flat and therefore the reviewer here is disconnected and felt like the MJ sub-plot came out of nowhere.
Same goes to the villains like Kraven, being 1 layer deep but having an amazing performance by the actor + amazing work by the developers of Insomniac.
So again, these videos are sharing opinions, not showcasing math problems and giving a solution.
@@josetomascamposrobledano4618 Bro you spent half this comment basically agreeing with the reviewer and the other half saying a bunch of nonsensical bullshit.
He didn't even call anyone out, why are you being insecure about his take on the games difficulty. He wasn't even mad at the game, his criticisms of the combat were incredibly fair and actually fairly objective.
The writing is also absolutely worth criticising. The first game did not have the same issues in the writing department, this game is a clear step down, largely due to this one having no comic book writers involved.
The criticisms in this video are entirely fair and if insomniac did listen to them, and address them, I guarantee you that Spider-Man 3 would be an even better game.
Also, there absolutely are cases of right or wrong when critiquing games, and media in general. The idea that everything about a games quality is subjective is complete bullshit, there are multiple parts of a game that can be objectively critiqued on just a technical level. Your comment is also hypocritical since you're presenting your own views as objective.@@josetomascamposrobledano4618
@@brinsk7151 not all text is an attack dude, don’t be defensive about everything.
I did the opposite, I didn’t present my ideas on the game as factual. I meant that some things people like are also things that other players dislike.
It’s like what they did with RE4. Regular enemies always got stunned with 1 shot to a weak point, meanwhile the Remake adds some damage thresholds in order to perform the kicks.
It’s a design change that divides opinions. Some people accept the change and think that the new parry mechanic is the new “get out of jail free card”. Meanwhile other players view it as a drastic change from the original and will now use strong weapons purely for damage instead of interacting with the melee system.
So when I say that weapon wheels aren’t inherently bad. I’m not saying the wheel is the superior gameplay choice. But rather that there are pros and cons to everything.
And what Spiderman 2 did was streamline the combat in order to achieve flow. There are no interruptions to combat nor is there are an economy of “how many webs/venom moves I can do” beyond the focus bar and the cooldown time of attacks.
And that’s what the commentator loved… even if he did have a weird take with the new amazing Sekiro-Spider parry.
@@josetomascamposrobledano4618there's nothing sekiro like about the new parry system. It's the most forgiving parry system I've ever seen in a video game
"Sauceless" was an excellent word choice. The lack of bite to Peter's quips so that the jokes feel as safe as possible, even though Spider-Man's whole deal is mocking his enemies. The Symbiote Arc removing all culpability from Peter so that he doesn't need to feel any guilt about anything he said or did in the costume to the point that even Harry forgives him. Miles' desire for revenge never getting past a momentary desire and ultimately being something he never acts on or really causes anyone any problems. The most morally dubious thing that anyone in the story does of their own volition is MJ writing a slam article on Spider-Man, and the story immediately wipes that from everyone's memory so she can have a "You go girl!" moment when she tells off Strawman Jameson. It's like flirting with the idea of character flaws rather than committing to actually having them.
Really, Think You and Whitelight Need to Learn What Flaws and Being Human is Like Because neither You Nor Whitelight Seem to Think What Being Polite Actually Is Because None of the Characters were Ever Really Polite. Really, Not Even Spidey's Quips Were Ever that Safe. Nor Anything. And, Really, Miles Has Dealt with Things. Especially with Peter. And, Really, MJ having a Certain Revelation is Problematic? Really, that is Definitely Something She Actually Needed. Really. A Podcast is Definitely Something she Needed to do. Really.....
They Actually Have Really. MJ Did have An Arc There.
Also, Really, Peter Does Still do ALOT of Great Quips There. Yet, Really, Whitelight Doesn't Seem to Provide Much Examples of them. Really, he Only Used that One Sandwich Joke and That's It. Really, guy just Doesn't Provide Much Examples.
Also, Harry Never Apologized to Peter at the End. He just Wanted the Suit.
Miles Actually Did Try to Deal with Li. Just as his Whole Confrontation if Him did he Actually Learn Not to Take it Too Far with his Own Vengeance as he Had that Dreamscape with Li During the Whole Kraven Thing. So, Really......
@@sonicdihedgehog1everything you said was done as shallow and safe as possible, and not well
@@aydenulery9562 Not Really. Nothing you stated about the Game was Ever Shallow nor Safe. Really, You guys just Seem to have Some Bad Takes Here. Really.......
Honestly... do you think they will listen to these criticism and fix them in Spider-Man 3.
In case you wondering, first mention of web of shadows is6:33
im just assuming this is meant to be a negative comment, but forgive me if im wrong, but just curious why is it a bad thing to mention another game, he did the same with ac unity a game filled with animations that are beautiful and he mentioned another game ac 2 a game thats older but had more control, i saw no one complaining watching in that video,
@@tui9148 I highly doubt that this is a negative comment. People are just recognizing Whitelight's love for the Web of Shadows game. It's an endearing quirk which has now achieved meme status. Plus, it's the benchmark which he uses to measure all Spider-Man games.
@@tui9148 Well your assumption is incorrect. The reason I made the comment is due to web of shadows comparison being a meme on this channel.
Web of Shadows did Spider-Man 2023 better tho
mary jane out here taking out dozens of professional hunters in them lemon peppa steppas
You got to remember that MJ was trained by silver Sable which is why she was able to do that was you not paying attention to the game so her doing all that made sense marvel's spider-man 2 is a good game but I think in my opinion Marvel Spider-Man PS4 was just a better Spider-Man game let me explain the cops are always involved in stuff unlike Marvel Spider-Man 2 when you stop a speeding car with Thugs or Hunters no cops on the scene web swinging did not look realistic like Marvel's Spider-Man PS4 the Webwings were unnecessary it takes the feeling out of being Spider-Man and of course better villains better enemies and side mission's and of course a better story Harry should have died in Marvel Spider-Man 2 especially after villains getting killed off screen except for Scorpion so yeah this is how I rate them
1marvel's spider-man PS4 9/10
2marvel's spider-man 2 8.6/10 3spider-man Miles Morales 7.5/10
@@rayshawnhoward5068I’m expected to believe a small amount of training would put you on par with people whose literal job is to hunt individuals? Especially when the hunters literally give Spider-Man a run for his money in some encounters? Yeah no, not believable in the slightest.
8.6 for sm2?? Isn't that bit much for such mediocre game@@rayshawnhoward5068
woman empowerment
@@thefallenvalley4340 hey as long as it isn't as boring as the dreadful sections from the first game then whatever works
God remember how mean the characters were to each other in the original Ratchet and Clank trilogy… I miss that.
Have you seen TGB video on the “remake”?
@@Calawey only a dozen times, felt so validated when that video dropped I remember watching that video and then immediately replayed the original game!
People have become sensitive even when they "smack talk" each other in the Coney Island section its like they are stepping on eggshells.
Genuinely surprised you didn’t talk about the way the black suit adds literally nothing to the gameplay that you couldn’t already do. It doesn’t improve anything, base animations aren’t different, it’s just different L1 attacks that are just as strong as the Spider Arms. The cooldowns aren’t even faster. They genuinely didn’t do anything right with the Symbiote outside of the visuals/feel. Web of Shadows had it figured out almost 20 years ago.
No, Even in This Game does it Actually Do This. Really, just Do This and ALOT More. Really.....
@@sonicdihedgehog1. Source: Dude, trust me.
I was also surprised especially when I found out Peter and miles could do the rapid wall kick instead of it being a black suit combat animation.
I was hoping black suit Peter would be able to lift chunks of concrete off the ground
@@baki484yeah that was one thing that surprised me, like why would base Peter or miles even think of a move that violent, it's a move the only symbiote Pete would come up with
@@baki484doesnt the 1st game have that?
Or something similar?
"It's fresh in the sense that I've never seen anything this shit before"
God damn bro, I gotta put that on a plaque or something.
Except the story really isn't fresh.
Could be a quote straight out of a Gordon Ramsey show.
Put it on the headstone of Venom's character. According to his VA 90% of his lines were cut.
What the fuck I was watching the vid and looking through comments and as I saw this it actually came up in the vid at the same time. What the fuck
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16
Thank you for putting into words the nagging feeling I had about the symbiote storyline.
Venom as a character was neutered and the lack of impact and consequences with the black suit was a huge disappointment.
I am curious. Even in this video it is glossed over. What did venom really do besides say some mean things outside of the ONE Mary Jane chase? A lot of this story assumes we just know that venom is evil so it doesn't put in the work to make us believe he is evil when the black suit is on. I couldn't help but laugh when the podcast chick said she didn't like the black suit... when Miles wheres a black suit all the damn time. Plus canonically they switch suits all the time so she has seen different colored suits for peter including potentially the Noir one. Thats just one example, but I don't think you can have consequences when nothing even happen to justify them.
@@TakarieZan according to Tony Todd, Venom’s VA, 90 % of his dialogue was cut from the game, so obviously, that means that a lot of the plot points about Venom were missing. Apparently, this is one the subject Insomniac and Sony had major arguments about.
Now, we know that we’re going to get a venom solo game in 2025. So maybe Venom will get more character development then
It suddenly dawned on me that the symbiote is a metaphor for alcoholism.
You're literally under the influence.
This version of Venom doesn't influence the host at all.
@@mariokarter13more like drug addiction but yeah
Venom wasn't neutered, because this ain't Venom. Venom is a combination of Eddie Brock + the Symbiote. Names have meaning. This is just black Harry.
THANK GOD someone finally mentioned the dialogue. I felt like I was losing my mind the entire game. The whole inauthentic, corporate speak every character oozes in each line was driving me insane and I could never properly put it into words. It’s an issue that I think has existed since the 2018 game just to a much lesser degree that has gotten worse with each game. It’s especially egregious here because the Black Suit storyline hinges almost entirely on character conflicts. Dialogue like this makes it absolutely fall flat and each conflict feels insincere and surface level.
I’m incredibly worried that the Wolverine game will have the same issues.
What is it that makes your worry about the Wolverine game incredible?
Did you completely ignore what they said? They just said they disliked how theyve been writing their games, thus theyre worried about wolverine @@noneofyourbusiness4616
@@noneofyourbusiness4616 wolverine is a tough character to write IMO. it's very very easy to make him a boring gruff, tough, lone man type of cliche. If you make him too sterile, you obviously miss a lot of the interesting aspects. But if you make him too edgy without the writing chops (like symbiote peter in this game), it becomes hilariously bad
as soon as i got done with the game and remembered the wolverine game was in the works i was full of worry. I really hope they dont fumble that game
10:55 I was castrated by an entire chat for having this criticism on the swinging. Apparently I was 'clouded by nostalgia' or nitpicky to prefer the swinging in those (now, rather old) games. It was strange no one knew what i meant by 'true loop de loops' and didnt understand that *these* loops are completely animation not physics based. Thanks for not making me feel crazy
Let me guess, spidermanps4 Subreddit? Absolute braindead place lol
@@lucas169oh dear, they downvote anything that remotely says that either of these games isn’t the second coming of Christ
@@KaineMikulasQuite the opposite actually. I only see people criticizing the game instead of praising it
@@jeffreyschilder7468 I might be confusing the /Spiderman2 subreddit with /spidermanps4 then. I know one of them is irritatingly positive and unreceptive to differing opinions
god the nostalgia cope is so rampant these days it drives me up the wall how so many people are quicker to cry that you have rose tinted glasses instead of actually trying to understand what you’re saying and why you feel that way
Agreed by far the biggest fuck up was making venom completely separated from the wearer so it just becomes the evil monster taking over your body instead of a partner with a ya know SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP
Exactly I found Finn as the Tinkerer more compelling than Kraven and Venom. Yes she was incredibly annoying and her plan made no sense but at least she did everything on screen and you were emotionally invested lol.
Fanboys gave Sam Raimi a lot of shit for Venom’s portrayal in Spider-Man 3 but he always said he never liked the character that much so that was to be expected, the people at Insomniac don’t even fucking try to understand the character, he looks like Venom but he doesn’t act like it.
@@misaeltoral508 The only scene I liked with Venom when he delivers the line "We are healthy, strong. This is what you wanted...isn't it?" Honestly if they had gotten Venom right then that scene would have worked really well.
Wait a minute, an oozing substance that removes your inhibitions and causes you to ruin your life in excess.
Was Venom a metaphor for alcoholism this whole time?
@@chandllerburse737Venom is the result of both Eddie’s and the symbiote personalities combined. That’s like the basic trait of the character. Honestly I don’t know where the idea of the symbiote’s name being Venom came from.
I’m glad someone commented on how “nice” everyone sounds, I mean these are New Yorkers , how do you do you make New Yorkers sound so bland?
Oddly enough this makes jjj stand out the most. A lot of great stuff in the game just a lot of weird narrative choices
I've always called the characters in the game generic NPCs given main character status. I hate how they turned Peter and MJ personalities into nothing and their iconic relationship has less chemistry then Tom and Zendaya,
@@celestialsoldier622 Tom and Zendaya have more chemistry between them dating in real life than ACTING like they're dating
How? Sweet Baby Inc is how
yup cause that's ESG every thing has to be safe cause "safespace" by these social agenda pushing companies
overall the game sucks, all the characters are tone down and they butchered the look of MJ to push politics and is being propped up cause of branding
@@auliamatefr
Spider Man 2 is literally a fast food game. It tries to appeal to everyone, makes sure to be super family friendly so it doesnt offend anyone and can be consumed by all and mostly important, it treats you like a dumb child
Bro this game tried really hard to offend everyone
@@zzodysseuszz Yup, offend everyone's intelligence.
I wholeheartedly agree. Look no further than the self-completing QTEs throughout the or the lack of environmental hazards being set dressing in the Tombstone rescue mission.
Not literal.
The MJ segments are so bad. Imagine playing Arkham and then you have to play as Alfred or wheelchair bound Barbra for 20 minutes.
How dare you knock the idea of playing as Alfred, the most powerful and epic character in all of comics
Don't compare Alfred to MJ don't disrespect him like that
Alfred was SAS,he is a highly trained individual,he even knocked Superman out.
Seriously, Yuri's thing as Wraith just completely breaks the emersion for me, woman if you have been capable of this level skill this whole time, then why the fuck did you need Spider-Man in the first game and its DLC, I could've bought her as a gun toting anti-hero like Punisher, but this makes no sense.
In the comics it’s bc she was literally dead and came back to life. She returned with the ability to move through walls. But I remember they might have retconned this. I remember a comic with anti-venom where she doesn’t have any powers but she uses villains weapons and gadgets back on them as divine punishment
Chances are, idk she commited and came back to life or something, we know other heroes and villains exist in the universe. Might be true
@@zzodysseuszz Dude, that would have actually been so cool if she could move through walls. Like if that was her thing instead of being sythe Spider-Woman who kills.
Especially when her side missions felt like a complete standalone on its own plane of existence that has nothing to do with whatever happened on the city.
Here's the actual reason for this change:
The writers didn't want a single female character play second fiddle to the literal superheroes. This is specifically only concerning the female characters because the writers are insecure of themselves and their own writing.
It's so weird how this is a crime fighting game set in NYC and the police are basically nowhere to be seen.
They caved into the twitter mob who complained the first game was "copaganda"
Game was too expensive, so they had to defund the police.
Cringe American politics
I played the game and see police. I think you're just too chronically online.
@@lordraiden7397 saw police and yet they completely non-existence during story. They hardly even involved when crimes happened in the city. lol
This game is painfully safe. It's overindulging in safety. It's painfully lacking in any meaningful drama and darkness. It's painfully inoffensive and polite to the point it takes you out of the experience of how "utopian" it is. It's not "comicbook-y". The game treats you like a child, it's too afraid to explore anything complex or nuanced because it's too afraid that you feel uncomfortable or "take it the wrong way."
It feels too much like "modern" writing. This "extremely safe" writing that tries so hard to appeal to everyone and make sure it doesn't make you feel uncomfortable, it makes everyone feel that desperation of dishonest and artificial restraint. The first game wasn't nearly this bad or obvious with it, but now looking back... I can see it permeates the whole Insomniac universe.
Spiderman 2 is just so painfully safe.
As someone who’s consumed a metric shitton of Spider-Man content I’ve always felt the cleanliness that permeated this version of Spider-Man. However nothing in any of the last 3 games comes close to the level of corporate safety Spider-Man 2 has hit.
Danika is the best example of this in these games
Well put man. This was how I felt whenever the first game came out and people were showering it with praises. Meanwhile the entire time I was playing it I couldn’t understand what’s so “great” about it other than a combat that’s just riding on the shoulders of Arkham with flashier animations. I think “safe” is definitely the right word to describe these games.
This is exactly how I've always felt with this franchise. It doesn't push the needle enough or do anything to differentiate itself enough from other Spider-Man series for me to remember it vividly like other Spider-Man games and media in general.
It's like it's trying to be the 'composite' Spider-Man game when it should be it's own thing willing to take it's own risks with the series instead.
What will people really say about this series of games in 8+ years from now other than 'Eh, it was a pretty good series of games.'?
To me I think this series suffers from a lack of distinct atmosphere. It's just too clean, sanitized and surface level.
@@spoodurmin9742i fucking hate danika
I honestly don't understand how people were genuinely upset Spiderman didn't win GOTY. Like be so for real
The only people that thought the game deserved goty either didn't play any other games that year or they were sony fanboys.
@@TrizollinTehWorld they were mostly kids. if i was like 7 years younger, i would be crying too. like whitelight said in the ending of this video, "this game is a masterpiece.....if you're 12. otherwise, it's a damn good action game"
There are some things in the first game that I liked that's not in MSM2.
For example:
-Enemy bases, there are only hunter bases (they aren't great) and they can only be played once, no waves of enemies or whatever.
-Car chases are boring now.
-Police basically don't exist, no firefights on the streets.
-In Miles Morales you could press triangle to pull and kick the enemy after a combo and in MSM2 you can only pull them.
-Can't change weather/time.
-Some gadgets were really good in the first game and don't exist now but I get the reason.
-Stealth is watered down/non existent.
I love the game but so much is missing.
Car chases were always boring
@@zzodysseuszz Even more boring let's say :D
Replayable enemy bases were really cool. I would often just start up an old save to play them again and try to get high combos or no hit runs. Sad to hear they aren't in this game.
Police don't appear much in game because enough woke people screeched about how police are bad and Spider-Man shouldn't be helping them so insomniac listened and did that. Also doesn't help they've been slowly getting more politically correct with time
@@Cirrusfire bruh... Can't even enjoy shit anymore without getting yelled at. The city feels emptier without the police...
"Talk like your employers are listening" is their "dance like nobodys watching."
"The webswinging is incredible. Unfortunately, it's sort of a piece of shit"
I love you Whitelight
So glad I'm not the only one to have issues with some aspects of the Web slinging
Not the Best Words he could've Used. Really, at Best it's just Contradictory at Best.....
@@sonicdihedgehog1 It's literally not contradictory; It has it's incredible moments, but then it also has some big issues.
@@dragonbornexpress5650 Not Really, No. Not the Things WhiteLight has Said.....
@@sonicdihedgehog1a lot of what he says, he backs it up, if you're gonna say "well no actually..." then you better back it up or what you say will literally mean nothing
I think the overly polite dialogue is an Insomniac problem, not a Spider-Man problem. They had the same type of dialogue in Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, with all the characters constantly thanking and apologising to each other. They have clearly had the capability of writing well in the past, such as in the PS2 and PS3 R&Cs, so there must be new direction or new writers influencing it to be this way.
Not Insomniac. Its SweetBabyInc, look it up
@@GameTimeNLLto be fair all the diversity hiring can’t be helping either.
Diversity hire +sweet baby inc…not a good combo.
Also half way through the video and he hasn’t even mentioned all the some stuff dragging down the plot, probably trying to pretend like that isn’t a issue like so many other UA-camrs now (sigh)
@@jeremybolt8950you don't hire based on chataistics people have no control of, you hire based on merit. Now and always. Let the chips fall where they may, the creme rises to the top.
If he WhiteLight just avoids the main issue, it shows he is too weak to carry a spine. I'll be judging and watching.
I really don’t think a black programmer has any control of the direction in a game. This writing has been in Sony games since The Last of Us, it’s corporate safety, not the fault of “ESG”
@@Supermariosupervideo It's companies like Sweet Baby Incorporated and the people aligned with it's beliefs inside any given company. The wokestoppo are a cancer in desperate need of removal.
"Not every game need to be a masterpiece"
Given how expensive this game is and what it would take to recoup the losses as revealed from the Insomniac leaks, SM2 not hitting the mark might actually be a big problem. Especially if the path to improvement isn't clear.
Yeah and they even reused the trash on the first game so where the money go?
wait, I have no info about this. What losses were leaked?
@@1001pierredefinitely wrong but venom mission cut for more MJ mission?
@@Mikx100graphics and mj missions
@@Mikx100 Sweet Baby Ink is where that money went. And it also happened to be what made the characters and world lifeless and the side missions cringe.
Not having Agent Venom Harry and Miles in thee game's story was one of the biggest missteps in the game for me. Its weird that the game barely connects Miles' and Peter's stories together despite this being one of the only mainstream SM stories that involve both Spider-Men as an acting duo. It also makes Miles involvement in the final bossfight feel very tacked on
Miles' story in general was clearly an afterthought. He had several boring missions in Acts 1 & 2, most of which were just introductions to more boring side content. He's practically ignored by Peter even before he gets the symbiote. There was some potential for conflict there but they don't explore that at all. Hell, he's not even present at all in the symbiote story until the very end, which robs him of a relationship with Harry, the game's main antagonist. Even his revenge arc with Martin Li goes nowhere until the end of Act 2. Why would they bother to include him in this game if they were just gonna sideline him like this? The symbiote storyline is Peter's, as it should be, but they had some really interesting potential by having Miles involved and they just went nowhere with it.
Most of Peter's rogues gallery are people he knows in his normal life. Transplanting that rogues gallery onto Miles completely ruins it.
Peter fighting his best friend has actual stakes, Miles fighting a dude he barely knows doesn't.
Miles new suit reveal should've been the culmination of him realising who he is as a person and the suit should've been the Puerto Rico flag suit as that's his identity. Mind you Insomniac would actually need to write and tell that story properly for that payoff 😅
@stevenhay7147
How would that work? Miles would become Puerto Rico Spider-Man? That flag also looks too much like USA flag, making Miles look like a Captain America Spider-Man cosplay.
@radrno7 Um he'd still be Spiderman?
49:47 What do you mean "It's never been done like this"? Venom's entire moveset is taken frame by frame from Ultimate Spider-Man, the game everyone forgets exists.
idk how this dude can call people 12 for liking this game, but then go and praise ubisoft games and raid shadow legends.
How the hell did this game mess up the symbiot story more than the movie where the dude didn’t even want to do it
That’s what I was thinking. You done goofed if Spider-Man 3 had a better black suit story.
Raimi magic forever unparalleled
@@sonny8686 raimi sucks tho. He’s a fraud writer. If you rewatch his spider-man films they have aged REALLY poorly. They’re so poorly written, with such cringe dialogue that it’s actually hard to watch. Also let’s not forget he made multiverse of madness
@@zzodysseuszz bait
@@zzodysseuszz just be quiet smh
Can't we just get a Prototype 3 already? :( Seeing Venom just smash through walls and being amazing reminded me of how much I would love to see a new one.
Hoping Microsoft is trying out that franchise. It did show up in their Activision merger video
I loved Prototype transforming into a soldier and riding around with them was one of my favorite things to do
We need a remake of the first game that keeps similar gameplay but overhauls the characters drastically. I'd be so epic and heartbreaking seeing an emotional and terrified Alex Mercer lose himself and become a living virus full of conflicting memories, minds, and ideals while his girlfriend can't do anything to help him.
Prototype is the game that taught me that an open world is only as good as it's traversal mechanics.
Running on buildings was fun.
It’s in Microsofts hands now
The more time spent thinking about it after the fact and the more that’s revealed about the development of this game, especially as they came closer and closer to release, it becomes increasingly clear that, as polished and enjoyable as the game is (I love it dearly, despite its many flaws) that both narratively and mechanically this game was ripped to shreds, maintaining only what was absolutely necessary to hit a rushed release date. The still upcoming patch set to bring New Game Plus, day and night options and myriad other features previously available on release in past titles makes it clear that Spider-Man 2 simply didn’t release in a feature-complete state
That is called "minimum viable product". Expect this in the future for Wolverine, where they will blame it on the leak.
@@Soapy_Papoosebullshit
@@Soapy_PapooseI mean they did leak the whole game do it makes sense
The biggest issue is that Insomniac took the wrong criticisms to heart. Taking out the police for people who were never going to play the game. Bubble wrapping the characters so they don't ever cross into being uncomfortable. Expanding the MJ missions because, to quote, "she's a hero too". They were so worried about being inclusive and diverse that they forgot what truly matters, making a story about New York and its protector. They forgot to put the heart in. They screwed up details that matter to their representation (i.e. the Puerto Rico flag at Miles' place being incredibly wrong pre-patch), and butchered a dub (Spanish) to be more inclusive. They put their priorities in the wrong place, leading to a sterile story propped up by admittedly solid gameplay. I hate to bring up the hack but in the leak their DEI seminar video was posted. I saw it, I genuinely think it is the most infantilizing, racist, bigoted nonsense I've seen in a while. It imagines minorities as being so fragile they can't be empowered unless they are represented in everything. This was a mandatory watch for all employees. I think it's great to stand for equality but when your activism hurts your product you need to refocus.
It’s not even like the first game had that much grit but DAMN does it seem like this game was made exclusively by middle aged white people.
Oh my god yes, that's why everything feels so weird. The weird treatment of MJ in the third act, like yes send this regular woman into an alien nest to steal the thing they are using to take over the world, sounds reasonable. Like my guy, I'm all for Gears of War: MJ's Neighborhood, but MJ hardly made it away from Peter when he was fighting against being taken over by ONE symbiote, ain't no way she's making it through dozens of them.
@@landonkam6727 I think there were plenty of opportunities to make MJ's gameplay interesting without making her a combat god. Like have her use her skills a a journalist to interview contacts, have a info board and piece together clues she gathers. This could be used to have her discover the Hunters base, find out more about Kraven, or be used to discover where the symbiote came from. Then she tells Peter and Miles, who use that information in the story missions. This gives her presence in the story, makes her important, and keeps her abilities believable.
@@Foreseer117 I like how they did her gameplay in SM2, just feel like the story takes a bit of a hit for her third one. I enjoyed MJ's sections in the first game my first playthrough, they were alright on my second, but past that they were parts I dreaded having to replay. But to be fair, I haven't replayed SM2 yet because NG+ isn't out. Not to diss your idea or anything but if they did it like that, I'd want the option to just watch that part like a cutscene. I don't think MJ really needs gameplay to make her compelling, most characters don't.
@@landonkam6727 Fair. I think that's a valid take.
we got the Whitelight video before NG+ dropped LMAO
It’s genuinely pathetic at this point. 3 months for shit that should’ve been in day 1.
I stopped believing Insomniac
@@knight1706 They promised NG+ would be release in 2023 and when they didn't win anything in the Game Awards, they just delayed it to 2024. lol
@chandllerburse737 No, it's not. The hack happened much after they announced the NG+ delayed to 2024.
@chandllerburse737 What are you talking about? The hack/ransom literally happened AFTER the Game Awards. The uproar of Spider-Man 2 didn't win any awards that led the ransom to occurred.
Game Awards - Early December
NG+ - Mid December
Hack - Late December
NOT THE FRIDGE MJ NOOO HELP ME MJ THE FRIIIIDGE AAAAAAAA
ITS TO HEAVY
IM TO SLOW
My biggest critism is that miles morales looks like ben shapiro melting into a black person
😂😂😂
“Spider-Man 2 is a masterpiece…if you’re twelve.” This is the *truth*
It blew my almost 8 year old son’s mind. He couldn’t even believe something like this could exist. I promptly told him I would simply beat the game and never play it again lol.
@@DCKnight0077-jw4bw how much money are you willing to bet that I liked my own comment?
I'm pretty sure the same sentiment applies to your favorite game
Why would youvtell him that? I don't much care for this game but allow your 8 year old son to feel amaezed by a spiderman game.
@@devilmaycrysarockingdontcome oh, I can tell him stuff like that because my opinion on the game doesn’t matter to him. He’s best it for times already!
It’s about damn time
I see you
Lol I knew I'd see you here
Yep it is and I didn't agree with ur review on SP2.
@@izanazir7088 Yet, you Mindlessly Listen to Whitelight's Incredibly Flawed Statements.....
@@sonicdihedgehog1 it is with mind with what i agree with. And with that i say, whitelight is probably the best reviewer in UA-cam and such underrated.
I listen to many, luke stephens, skill up, synthetic man, that boy aqua( and when he started his name was just 'aqua'), mortal gaming, griffith gaming, and honorable mentions are *so says jay* and *ratatskor*
whitelight's critiques are such which can only enhance the game for fanbase. He understands the game and what its loved for and critiques it on what missed for. People often critique it as a subjective point of view, where there critiques are standards set by other games. His critiques understand the game itself andunderstands problem within it. He is probably the most objective reviewer.
Of course i might have missed many other great youtubers of whom i don't know of, but so far whitelight is my favorite game reviewer.
When you mentioned how sterile and boring all the characters are I couldn't help but think about how I felt exactly the same way when I played the Ratchet and Clank remake and how horribly boring and sterile they made that as well...I'm not gonna pretend the original ps2 Ratchet and Clank was some masterpiece, and I'm sure most of my good feelings for it are related to my nostalgia, but got damn did they sandpaper down every single interesting thing that game had until there was nothing left but the most boring generic plot and characters you had ever seen...I guess my point is that modern Insomniac has a bit of a history of making perfectly serviceable games with perfectly bland narratives and characters...
The Ratchet and Clank remake made me drop the franchise all together. Haven't played the newest one, I know it's a good game but I have no clue if they ever recovered the character the first few games had.
Modern writing.
It's too preoccupied in making sure you "don't take it the wrong way" than actually exploring anything nuanced with nuance.
I agree about the lack of biting in the script, a dialogue from the old Ratchet that burned into my brain was this one:
- How about I sell you these, at cost?
- Sell? After we saved your scrawny butt?!
- Alright, alright! I'll give you the employee discount too!"
TheGamingBritShow made an interesting video comparing the original ratchet and clank to the remake in this way
What's funny is I played the remake, thought it was fun and then tried the orignal...which was also fun, if a bit jank. I liked the villain alot more than the remake version.
While I'd say the orignal has more natural interactions and jokes, I also appreciate how the remake tried to be a little more natural in terms of going from planet to planet instead of just repeatedly finding Info-Bots.
The gunplay was better in the remake, but the game was far more streamlined as well.
The OG was a little more aimless at times but had much better weapon selection.
Also, Clank's sections in the remake are a boring slog, so it was pleasant that he was actually fun in the original.
(Also he wasn't weirdly secretive about his upgrade chip to Ratchet for literally no reason. Seriously, what was up with this interaction? If he ask what you found and that "you know you gotta share with the class!" Just say, "Sorry Ratchet, this upgrade is only compatible with my hardware!")
they took out the police? did they also remove every american flag in the game? the police make NYC NYC it wouldnt be a city without them, insomniac plz
@InfiniteEdge006 oh struck a cord with you eh? its just an opinion, also I didn't like my own comment
They didn't take it out, they removed most of their involvement in the story. They were trying to state that the police has issues (corruptness, being a cop attracts people who only want power and an excuse to shoot people) but that's dumb. If they truly wanted to talk about that, they should have implemented it into the story. Miles is not implemented in the story enough, make him be very friendly with it, then slowly discover it's issues or something.
@@spacewhalemilk i personally never played this game, i thought they removed them entirely by what white light said in the video, im all for game companies expressing what they wish but to have a city like NYC without police would just be silly im happy they didnt remove them entirely, also isnt myles dad a police officer?
They didn’t take them out 😭😭😭. Just say you never played the game and move on 😭😭😭
@@jjoe7078 "i personally never played this game, i thought they removed them entirely by what white light said in the video..." see above
On a positive note, the point about the Symbiote making you ‘feel stronger despite not doing anything at all in game was something I had never considered. My first time playing with the Black Suit, for some reason I played better and more aggressively than I ever did on Ultimate difficulty even when every stat was the same.
It literally made you feel invincible.
Similarly, when I first got the black suit, every battle using it afterward I felt a surge of adrenaline and suddenly my playstyle switched from, for example, "I'll go stealthily in this base to avoid detection" to "Should I be sneaky... nah, fuck it, let's beat some ass." IDK if it was the music shift, the visually-aggressive and (possibly?) more powerful symbiote abilities, Peter's voice shift, the placebo effect of finally having the black suit after so long, or a combination of all of the above... but Insomniac definitely knocked the "power fantasy" aspect of the Symbiote out of the park. It would just be nice if Peter got some more aggressive or violent combat animations outside of Surge Mode to go along with it.
@@verstamech if you guys played web of shadows, you would have been really disappointed with what this game achieved with the symbiote. this game actually did a decent job, but web of shadows has truly spoiled any further games that ever tried to use the symbiote in terms of gameplay haha
This really confuses me, the symbiot legit gives you access to constant l1 special moves and a fast charging rage mater
"And in act 3 the city is almost exclusively inhabited by things that wants to uninstall your testicles" Whitelight Probably 14:31
Those wind tunnels bear a remarkable resemblence to Superman 64. Don't think that's a good thing.
Except the game plays itself when you enter the wind tunnels in spiderman 2.
It's almost as if there's a huge disk-sucking crowd of people preventing anyone from voicing any of their concerns when a Sony movie game comes out but when the dust settles people are allowed to actually talk about the games and every time there's huge issues we were forced to ignore.
“If it’s drip or drown in this world, MJ is sleeping with the Titanic” bro did not need to roast her that hard
This might be the best video essay ive ever watched (the video released 56 seconds ago)
My favorite kind of Saturday is one where I can sit back and watch an hour and a half of Whitelight amazingly produced content.
I love your stuff so much!
It's a peaceful life
The first game had a much deeper and better combat system imo. But it's like whitelight said, it wasn't difficult enough to force you to engage. So it's easy to think it was worse.
Going back to the original after the sequel, I played a ng on ultimate with mods that removed attack delays for Spidey but upped enemy aggression and stats.
Suddenly I was forced to use every option and mechanic and it's pretty great. You start to realize what gadgets do what best, which powers to utilize, and how to optimize your strategies.
Especially if you're going for high combos and optional tasks in fights. Or even to survive. I actually would lose on this run a lot; esp early on without all the unlocks.
Even having a weapon wheel was useful bc that pause to make a purposeful choice on your actions helped a lot when you're surrounded by enemies and brutes coming at you non stop.
While the second game upped the difficulty it responded by dumbing down your options. You basicaly just spam attacks and gadgets until you unleash a special move.
I beat it on Spectacular and got S rank on every conbat challeneg and I can't tell you offhand what each thing does best, but I can for the first game.
I wish they expanded on this more strategic combat than just made it button mashy. Maybe map some things to buttons but kept the wheel and increased gadget options.
The parry felt like a really uncreative step into making it like every other game instead of expanding on what made the combat unique in the first place.
i think the core issue of the combat system in this game is that its always a ONE on ONE fighting thing. Like spider-man can only hit one guy while you spam your square or triangle. and it seems more and more difficult to really expand on that sequel by sequel without completely reinventing the fundamental aspect
i miss web of shadows haha
U gotta remember the old Spider-Man games had no people or barely no cars on the street the city was dead… that’s why the swinging was so free
Suddenly this game became Crysis 2 with aliens taking over New York, except in that game at least the millitary tried to stop the aliens. Scarecrow's feartoxin attack in Knight was foreshadowed in Arkham City and it was explained why there wasn't any outside interference.
The cops also actually exist in Knight and it gives a good reason why they don’t have more presence in like the first ten minutes
@@creed8712It’s always so cool and satisfying to work with the Cops in Arkham Knight to take back the city but in Spider-Man they’re removed lmao
@@Terminal_Apotos it’s because ACAB, which is ironic because New York also doesn’t have the loose gun laws that would facilitate self policing so the cops are still very much needed
@@creed8712The NYPD sucks total shit and I hate them, but people crying about copaganda in the first game are stupid as hell. It's a goddamn superhero game, you can suspend your disbelief and pretend like the cops are actually good guys here.
@@negative6442 the cops suck in New York because the braindead population vote the worst policies.
10:37, jesus man, I've been watching you since that Web of Shadows video, but I really didn't think you were that much of an enthusiast. That wall run into a web strike was sick.
One thing that bugged me about the first game was that it felt sterile. This game is trying to win the sterile olympics
Crazy how modders solved these issues and Insomniac *sitting there on piles of money* like "eh, what more do you want from us"
Truly the critique to end all critiques.
Babe, wake up
Right here babe
What's with all those sleeping spouses
The man obsessed with Spider-Man: Web Of Shadows just uploaded.
what do you wa- NEW WHITELIGHT VIDEO WHY DIDNT YOU WAKE ME UP??
why :(
Okay but why did “Web of Shadows 2… more like Web of Shadows Poo” make me spit out my coffee 😂😂😂
Shout out to all the people that were here 3 thumbnails ago.
And 1 title change ago, apparently.
1:03:47 - on the depression side.
One of my ex-colleagues is one of the funniest people i've known. Witty, charismatic, kind jokes always spot on. Always something to add or to turn a grim topic into a light joke that everyone liked. And then he stopped appearing in the office. Turns out he was battling depression for 2 years. Almost ODed on pills. He moved to his hometown and cut contact with everyone. The last time I heard he is now ok and getting needed therapy. So no, you cant say someone cant be funny coz of depression.
People like that didn’t know they had depression as they were making the jokes. It’s like dormant depression that’s subtlety there and then suddenly all those years of it come crashing down in one go without warning and they couldn’t handle it. It’s not a person with depression is funny, but a person who doesn’t know they have depression being funny.
@@zzodysseuszznot true; many people who are depressed are embarrassed or scared to show it and/or don’t want to make their friends uncomfortable/worried, so they hide it extremely well
@@zzodysseuszzbut Peter is funny and depressed and he’s joked it’s a defense mechanism.
@@zzodysseuszz as someone diagnosed with depression by an actual doctor, this is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Don't speak for something you're clueless on.
A good friend of mine was the same way. We both have suicidal depression but I would've never known he had it. I only got to see him a couple times a year after living with him for a while because of life shit, and I had no idea he was even depressed. He never talked about it, never even showed anything that he was sad past his teenage angst when we were really young. He killed himself a couple years ago and I still think it's so strange and hard to understand why it was him.
Now me, I'm extremely negative I've been told and I show a lot of visible signs of depression. Even then, I have started to tell people since then when I feel especially bad, so they can maybe try to intervene if something happens or at the very least aren't blind sided if I hang myself the next week. I don't want anyone to feel that way.
My point is, depression is a disease and has so much variety in how it shows people. I thought how they handled it was accurate and believable
I played Prototype for the first time a few months ago due to Whitelight, and I found the progression of the city from normal NYC to a dystopian infected wasteland to be one of the best city progession systems in gaming, even today. It's a shame the Venom infection/invasion (and other sequences in other games) haven't learned from this.
Web of Shadows pretty much did it.
naaw cant have that.
Its too graphic and too negative.
We gota respecrct all races and species.
Even if undead or just monsters that want to eat your face.
@@johnynoway9127 DIVERSITY DOESNT RUIN THE MEDIA THAT YOU LOVE. ITS MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT. EVERYONE WANTS TO MAKE SOMETHING GOOD, BUT ITS HARD, AND OFTEN FAILS. YOU HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED BY THE ALT-RIGHT PIPELINE BECAUSE YOU ARE ANGRY AND INSECURE IN LIFE. LET GO OF THE HATE. I BELIEVE IN YOU
If there is one thing I hate in any game, it's when it starts preaching and talking down to me
Talking down to you how?
@@itcouldbelupus2842 Basically when it tells you what to feel and how to act and makes you feel bad for not doing what it wants you to do.
Like a manipulating toxic relationship.
@@johnynoway9127 Okay, does the game actually do that?
How does it tell you how to feel and act exactly?
How do you know the game wants you to feel bad?
@@itcouldbelupus2842 it doesnt this dude is delusional
@@legoaddiction8607 his lack of reply led me to that conclusion.
The Miles vs Li story honestly comes out of nowhere and could have worked...if it was in his first game. I literally doesn't make sense to have MIles fight Phin because he's against revenge when afterwards he seeks out revenge. Plus Miles facing Li in his own game rather than fighting Phin about Roxxon, sure would have changed the story Insomniac were going for since Li was getting captured by Kraven, would have been super impactful and actually would have given reason to stopping Phin in a Miles Morales 2. Otherwise, write Miles like he's actually important since otherwise he feels like he's just "I'm here too!" in a story about Peter.
@InfiniteEdge006 what
@InfiniteEdge006him and 3 others cause I agree with him 🗿
@InfiniteEdge006 are you trolling or being fr
@@downspiral Miles needed to fight the tinkerer who's a girl now and is just so sympathetic! Just sooo sympathetic. oh look at this cool fun guy. He's not evil (teehee)
@@bipstymcbipste5641 youre a weirdo. youre failing in life. you have been brainwashed into the alt right headspace because of your insecurties and it allows you to lash out at stupid shit. BUT YOU CAN DO BETTER. LET GO OF THE HATE AND ANGER. YOU CAN DO IT. I BELIEVE IN YOU
This game costed over 300 million dollars. So much time and money was pumped into this game that its not surprising that the game plays it safe.
giving Mj that face, compromising the main character by splitting him in two, no name villain, taking out a bunch of old features, all the face changes to Peter... and you call this "playing it safe" ?
they are playing it by the daily wind direction.
And it only made 400 million 😂
They literally did everything they possibly could to make a terrible game
@@zzodysseuszzIt's not terrible though. Give me the 3 Insomniac Spider-Man games and I'd play this one over those other two any day
@@connorharnage6697 then your standards are either so low that your iq points had to have dropped to justify it or you’re a faceless consumer who doesn’t really have enough dignity to get better games. Play shitty unfinished garbage and then play the next worse one when that comes out and say it’s better than the last!
A video essay so good, I might start simping for a youtuber.
Jokes aside, I agree 100% on how non consequential the symbiote was. Worst offense in my opinion is how Peter's ultimate conclusion with the symbiote arc has literally nothing to do with Peter's actions but only Miles and Lee. He doesn't lift a finger to get over his issues that the symbiote prayed over.
New york the capital city of the world.... god dammit... only an american can think that
@@Kabodanki capital city *of the culture* of the world. that is true.
@@Kabodankiit’s literally where the United Nations is headquartered, and it’s also the most important financial center in the world. If the world had a capital, it probably would be New York…
@@Whitelightyou do need to address your hypocrisies. It's the opposite of character building and chains your perspectives towards your material gains. I mean crysis 3 you had issues. So sad.
@@TheGhostLegend001 Nah, most of the world is on the other side of the planet in Asia.
I'm always surprised by how much people loved the "We are Venom" scene in the game. Yes, in a vacuum, it looks & sounds really cool.
But there's no substance to it because it doesn't make sense. Why is he called Venom here? It has nothing to do with his goals like every other version of the character. Why is it 'we', if the symbiote doesn't have a personality of its own / is taking over an unwilling host for its own benefit. Shouldn't it still be 'I' based on how the story was set up?
Don’t care, it’s cool. Same with the entire game. This bandwagon of SM2 being ok at best is dumb.
By far the best critique of the game. Personally, it disappointed me as a sequel: there are clear improvements in some departments but the bad stuff is really BAD. The story in paritcular, at least to me, falls shorts of the pacing and characterization we saw in the first game and that's ironic, since it's supposed to have even higher stakes. And you nailed it with the excessive and absurd cheesyness and niceness of the characters: not that it wasn't present in the first game, but at least it was somewhat believable and genuine, in this one it just makes you cringe and just think "NOBODY in real life talks or behaves like this".
Also, I know there are far more important problems but... I couldn't stand the amount of inclusive and social justice stuff/topics they constantly threw at me. I know that a game (and especially a superhero game) can also be an opportunity to spread awareness and good messages, but like this is just annoying and pointless.
@CDHunter345 Except I didn’t like my own comment…?
I know it’s stupid, but as I was playing I genuinely thought “Ohhhhhh, can’t wait to hear what Whitelight thinks of this Web of Shadows-as-Hell- third act. I haven’t even started the video and I know it’s gonna be good, love your work man
Anything that wasn't traversal in this game felt like an afterthought, the webwings, slingshot and loop de loop were great additions which felt like a natural progression from the first 2 games with the new sense of speed and verticality you can attain.
Stealth took a big hit in that the only new mechanic being the weblines but even then it didn't really feel like anything new, hell, they even reused the ceiling animations from the miles game and just copy and pasted it for peter. (THERE'S ONLY ONE, which is strange considering in the 2018 game, during the grand central station segment as MJ, peter has numerous ceiling takedown animations, why were they not present?)
The combat turning into a god of war runic attack style system didn't really meld with me, i ultimately used it when i need to rest my thumbs so i could watch the cool animations play, one thing that holds it back imo is that they take sooo fucking long to charge, and they don't even charge in between encounters, like you could stop one crime whilst using all your runics and then go to another one but they're not even charged up at all which leaves very little for variety in gameplay.
Yup. The I complained about the runic attacks. They are a way to not have to think about creative gameplay mechanics they can add. It's very easy to just implement over the top flashy animations because it's just animations but harder to implement active intuitive engaging mechanics. This game was lazy. You could easily give Spidey a mechanic were he gets on someones shoulders and starts punching Their head idk. It's the same with the gadgets, they are a crutch to make the game look bigger but it ain't Spidey like at all.
Seems like a solution may be to have the cooldown abilities be weaker and less impressive but can be used more frequently.
The loop de loops were pretty embarassing. Lets be honest. When we asked for loops, none of us were picturing a preset animation that looped us in one direction exactly one time. Right? We were all picturing actual physics-based loops I think? The game is fun, but its physics don't even stack up to decade-old games. There's a lot of flash. Not much substance..
56:00 The talk about how bosses can cheat to take back their turn reminds me of how infuriating Sigurn was in God of War 2018. You would get used to her patterns and how many hits you can deal when it's your turn, and then suddenly Sigurn would hyper armor through your attacks and nearly one shot you based on some hidden arbitrary amount of damage she had taken. Its definitely one of my least favorite ways to make a boss more difficult.
The city feels way emptier than previous games. Even in your clips we can see very few pedestrians, there's also lack of npcs on rooftops, lack of dynamic crime activities, civilians don't attack spider man on street, can't read newspapers etc.
@@DCKnight0077-jw4bw. Copy-pasting this over and over doesn't make it true; What are you even saying?
I WANTED STALKER VENOM. I WANTED VENOM THE HATER. The worst part is they could have still easily done it with Harry as venom. Fuck it they could have still gotten their symbiote invasion thing after the stalker venom thing. Man why did this games third act get so rushed
I wanted a fight across the city like we saw in the concept art. When I saw Venom and the Spidey in that pic, I thought we were going to be thrown across the sky while fighting/chasing venom or running away from him, this game suffers so much from 🔺 + ⭕ syndrome.
It's what I was expecting
Venom Peter is scarier then most villains.
Stronger
faster
Gives no regard for life.
Is angry constantly
Is mostly silent unless angry.
idk what this is
I heard someone say this and I agree. I think they should've had only one ability wheel. Miles would be his powers, and Peter would have gadgets. You then make the gadgets more unique and niche in combat than what we got. This makes the two spidermen feel different and unique, instead of copies with different suits. When he gets the symbiote, you can replace his gadgets with powers, but i feel it would add depth to the gameplay while also giving credence to their actual characters not being the same
Why not let us choose 4 abilities/gadgets in the menu from bigger group. It would encourage preparation because you wouldn't be able to do it during combat.
I think this would’ve been worse tbh, id rather them completely rework the l1 button to be more utility and combo based rather than basically runic attacks, miles would have his electricity powers that would specialize in AOE, high damage yet slow and chain effects, peters would be decent damage but really high speed and way more utility based and web effects that would capitalize on his experience over miles and I don’t think anyone would mind that over some dumb iron spider legs (oh and the symbiote would be a overlayed switch upon a suit switching feature, and mile’s evolved venom would be the same concept
Why do people hate the new gadget wheel so much? I got used to it halfway through the game, I actually like it better imo.
@@eobardthawne82 we don’t hate the gadget wheel, we hate the gadgets themselves and the fact that there is only 4 to have at all times rather than a variety that you can swap out
@@BiggieJ4224 I can see that but some of them are useful. Mostly the concussion bomb.
I’m from NY nobody is as polite as people are in this game glad someone mentioned it.
Part of this universes strength and weakness is its reliance on its sci-fi elements. Every character has to be a realistic sci-fi character despite also having Doctor Strange exist.
For as much flack as the MCU gets, I thought it did a better job with magic and science co-existing
The writers admitted last month that Sony forced them to release the game earlier, so that’s why the third act especially, feels rushed. The game was probably originally envisioned to come out in 2024. But this isn’t a problem that’s unique to insomniac.
I mean even so I don't think it was gonna be good from what the set up is
All a finished SM2 would mean is less bugs. The fundamental problems are still there.
@@zzodysseuszzNo not really. There would still be a lot of major changes, not just bugs
@@connorharnage6697 nope just bugs. The game is fundamentally bad. Half of the stories run time is dedicated to lecturing to the player about left-wing politics and climate change propaganda. You give the game more production time and all they’ll have fixed is bugs and added more politics.
@@zzodysseuszz You clearly haven't played the game or designed a game. A lot of changes get made last second in both story and gameplay. And what the hell are you talking about "left wing propoganda"? Even though there are a few moments of wokeness, the game never tries to sway your opinion which is the intended purpose of Propoganda
You did NOT just Raid Shadow Legends us!
He did!
He fucking did, didn't he...
I think the best point here is about how off the dialogue feels. Peter does seem like he's "trying" with MJ.... 'I don't deserve you!' is on paper a sweet thing to say to your partner but it doesn't feel natural. At least, it doesn't feel like a couple about to move in with one another. That is something a 3-month old couple would say.
yess thats whats literally said in a better way in the video that we both watched lmao
I think the games fast pacing hurt its narrative, imo. Before launch Insomniac stated the game would be about as long as the first, and that was when my worries started. There was so much more this game was juggling, how could they possibly do all of it well in the same amount of time as the first game? But the answer was right in front of me: they couldn’t.
While playing it I was having fun. It felt like a rollercoasters of ups and downs. But then when credits rolled I started questioning a lot. Peter’s symbiote turn is too quick, Kraven and Venom are both great but neither are given enough time to shine, Miles feels so underutilized in the whole story, Norman has to suddenly hate the Spider-Men at the end to set up another sequel, etc. This game needed more time to breathe, and I’ll probably not return for another playthrough any time soon. I’ll definitely boot it up for some web swinging though, that’s still sweet.
Real talk tho, when is Whitelight gonna stop edging us with all these Arkham Knight mentions by dropping an Akrham Knight critique.
Soon enough I'll have to submit myself for scientific studies on finding out what's beyond blue balls.
Would love to see this !
I have big plans for that one.
@@Whitelight But are you going to cover Arkham Origins first?
Arkham knight is trash though
what@@Bungycb
Yes! I've been waiting for this. Your first Spiderman critique is how I found your channel.
For me it was black flag and unity videos.
Was Prototype for me. Rip
Mirror’s Edge
watchdogs 2 for me
Cool seeing you here
The conversations between Peter and Yuri in the firat game were deeper and better than the ones in this game between Peter and mj, which is very weird to say.
That is EXACTLY how I feel about ALL of insomniac's Spider-Man games. It took Whitelight all the way till the end to put it simply but he finally got there.. THERE ISNT ENOUGH SPIDER-MANING IN MY SPIDER-MAN GAME! I agreed with all of White's points but in my opinion ALL of his gripes could have been EASILY forgiven if Insomniac would've just let us do actual Spider-Man stuff! The city is fucking AMAAAZING looking! Its vibrant, dense, and alive feeling but you cant really interact with it in any meaningful way... The city and its people are more or less just window dressing. A vehicle that enables the story... Bruh, if I could just free roam and stop actual crimes in progress or just help some random NPC with something organically, I would have had a LOT more fun with this game.. And I know what someone is going to say "Wtf are you talking about? There are crimes to be stopped!" No there isn't... Those "Crimes" are just small combat trials baked into one of the 3 or 4 "Crime scenarios" the game randomly generates. You can tell because these scenarios always involve the same 4 types of enemies you been fucking fighting ALL game, barring the symbiotes... Insomniac... for the love of god... PLEASE for the next game.. PLEASE let us, stop actual crimes like, hostage situations, fires, bomb threats, armed robberies of some corpo establishment or some small shop, high speed cop chases, muggings at night, home invasions, smuggling operations, extortionist, grand theft auto, stopping or interrupting a gang war, SOMETHING to keep us busy at end game. You could even add small things like, finding lost animals, saving something or someone in danger of falling from a high place, catch a balloon for a kid, attend Spider-Man events made in his honor, settle disputes between peers as peter, eat, attend work or class as peter, go on dates with MJ, sky races, ground races as peter via biking marathon or timed trials, YOU COULD ACTUALLY HELP FIX THE FUCKING CITY YOU WERE INVOLVED WITH BREAKING ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS... LIKE... You get what I mean?? There waa SO much they could have done!
spiderman 2's biggest failure was giving us an open world you do not do nearly enough. dare i say, you barely get to explore it. the lack of sandbox is the only crime really being committed here, gosh darn it i wanna deliver pizza, i could do that in a roblox spiderman game, what's insomniac's excuse?
@@auliamate Hell yeah! A pizza delivery time trial would he awwwesome!
@AllyJ1141 that doesn't make you see anymore of the world then you already do,if you just wanted an extra activity then just say that. And that can't happen cause Pete doesn't work in the pizza delivery service
@@shaunavant532 What are talking about...? First of all, I said what I said and I meant what I said, and secondly those examples I gave were just off the cuff ideas not something set in stone that I wish for, and third, my rant was mostly about INTERACTING with the world a lot more, NOT seeing more of it. No shit you see most of it, you are swinging around the whole map in most of the story missions and most of the side missions take place or lead you to key locations around the map. If you are going take the time out and read that fat ass rant at very least, get the details correct....
@@AllyJ1141 then say interacting not seeing some more of it, I agree with that
It's a shame the symbiote storyline turned out this way. Yes, the symbiote generally makes Peter more of a jerk but there were better ways to go about it. I think Spectacular Spider-Man did it best as far as I know since it seduced Peter away from his friends as the situation around him worsened. Imagine an alternate take like this:
Peter's descent mainly comes from the stress of having to deal with so much at once and his inability to rely on others to handle far more serious matters. You could show Peter struggling to navigate both his social and superhero life more intensely than ever because he's never had to deal with so much at once and that it's making him absolutely miserable. You could foreshadow Peter's increasing frustration with his own inability to handle this and maybe even his frustration with Miles as he still views him as not fully ready yet due to the carnage brought about by the Miles Morales game. The symbiote could then prey upon it., whispering in his head that he doesn't need them to get the job done and amplifying both his power and his anger at the same time. That could be a better reason for him to try and kill Kraven as he just wants all of his problems done with it at this point and when Miles comes in to stop, he views it at getting in his way again. IOnce Miles and Peter fight, instead of having Peter rip off the suit due to Miles's encouragement, actually have Miles beat the suit outta him so that it shows that Peter underestimated how much Miles has grown. Once he gets his bearings together, he could see how much damage he's caused to his friends and that'd make him realize that the suit has been screwing with him the whole time and that he needs to get rid of it.
Once Venom arrives properly, he could do the same to Harry. You could probably have some deep-seated jealousy he has over Peter due to the fact that while he's growing weaker, peter's only getting stronger and him taking the symbiote possibly robbed Harry of his only chance to keep up. By the time Venom takes over Harry, both the symbiote and Harry could see Peter as the enemy and instead of simply trying to take over the world, they do everything in their power to make Peter's life even more miserable while proving themselves as superior to him. You could have Scream and the other symbiotes show up, taking over Peter's loved ones and have the symbiote-ification of the city be nothing more than an aftermath to the carnage they're ensuing. This forces peter to genuinely try to rely on others to help him pick up the slack when it comes to critical moments. Maybe the final fight with Venom could be changed so that Peter actually tasks Miles with fending Venom off as long as he can while he helps MJ get the meteorite and the final fight being Peter vs Harry as it should be. It'd make the whole symbiote storyline much more personal and give Peter an actual arc that would make the ending a bit more meaningful.
At least, that's my take on how it should go. Probably better alternatives out there, but it's the best that I could come up with.
Interesting take, I agree with most except Miles beating the symbiote off of him, how it is in the game just felt a little too easy for me and I feel like Peter removing the symbiote by himself should be a mission of its own. Miles kind of has the problem of swooping in and saving a lot of Peters problems.
@@AlwaysEliite That's a fair point, honestly. Most symbiote suit stories usually end with Peter ripping the suit off of his own volition after recognizing what the suit was doing to him.
Maybe it could play out after the fight with Miles, where the two come to a standstill or Peter wins but realizes that he just hurt his own apprentice? Maybe the aftermath of that could be him going to the bell tower and fighting the black suit within his own mind? Now that I think about it, that might actually be a better scenario, so thanks for that, honestly.
I originally wrote it that way so that it would show to Peter that Miles is stronger than he thought but there are other ways to do that too.
You read my mind lol, I wasn't sure if I wanted to say Peter "wins" because some people don't like that idea but I feel like its 10x more impactful and it still makes Miles the main catalyst that causes Peter to wake off and battle his mind in the bell tower. @@cicada8981
@@cicada8981 Better idea, IMO. Miles doesn't quite beat the suit off Pete, but he gives Pete enough of a fight to give him pause for thought. He gathers himself, realises what he's done, and feels horrible. That moment of realisation gives him the willpower to overcome the symbiote. That sends him down the path of trying to remove the suit.
@@MrBadGuyX I think maybe a situation where in his symbiote induced power trip, his instinct is to go attack Miles while Miles prioritizes saving people is probably what I would try to construct. Like Miles is acting more like spiderman than he is or something like that
5:37 to skip to Raid Shitty Legends ad.
You’re a really one.
@@zzodysseuszz"really"
I think the police thing is a very immature thing for two reasons.
1 is that I think forcing your own political views into a franchise with a pre established relationship between its heroes and the “everyday heroes” being those that serve its citizens on a daily basis, look you don’t have to think that OUR world police officers are guardian angles and in fact think the opposite, but that’s not how it is in the MARVEL/SPIDER-MAN universe, I loved seeing the contrast of the annoying, ungrateful cops that don’t appreciate spideys efforts, and the ones that genuinely appreciate what he does for this city
2 is that they literally based one of the main protagonists (miles) tragic backstory off a HEROIC COP, don’t you think that’s disengenous and disrespectful to both the characters of miles and Jefferson? I get they aren’t real characters but I more so mean respect to the characters in relation to the fans, it’s also highly childish to act like the people you don’t like don’t exist, that’s my problem with representation in any form of media no matter what side you are on. Different races, cultures, sexuality’s etc shouldn’t be forcefully spotlighted or removed in your game with a pre established IP to express YOUR agendas, it should include those things I just listed in a respectful and seamless way, the only time you should make your own identity with a well known IP in any form is by creating your take on the character and universe, not stripping and cramming real world political things that you don’t and do like
Police are like that in real life too tho. Police shootings and brutality is statistically very rare.
@@zzodysseuszz look I agree, the reason my original comment seemed like I was “beating around the bush” was to enhance my point that no matter what side you are on, pro-cop or anti-cop, it’s still childish just to remove them from the equation altogether and act like they don’t exist, and secondly to further insinuate that regardless of both views, this is THE MARVEL WAY it’s been done and it’s dumb to drop that. Fortunately, I’ve lived a life where many personal experiences and connections I’ve had led me to connect and sympathize with both sides, but I do partake in one over the other in many cases such as this one
Good comment, especially about the police.
Congrats on 500k subs bro, found you though jads way back when you first started making these videos. The quality has come so far and its awesome to see you still covering games you have so much passion for. Quality critique as always man.
I platinumed this game in 25 hours, which... wow, my fastest one yet where I wasn't ACTIVELY trying to platinum it quickly. I still love the game, it was a grand experience, but fuck I wish it had more substance
crazy 11 minute wait for web of shadows mention
You mean 6:33 minute
Fantastic video.
I legit don't get how they fucked up the symbiote storyline so bad. It removes any and all accountability from their hosts making for an insanely dull story that is hard to get invested in because nothing feels earned.
Harry literally going "Pete? What is happening?" during the final bossfight is such a slap in the face.
Also I am happy the music and performances made it work for you in the moment, but I swear the Scream bossfight is the dumbest shit.
As you pointed out, none of the conflict was set up. One could even claim the exact opposite was established with Peter going "you know you don't need to work at the Bugle" or something right at the beginning of the game, only for Scream to go "how dare you ruin my life like this, forcing me to work for Jameson"
That entire scene could have been so good but it's completely unearned.
Also, while it's messed up to think about, had they established conflict between Peter and MJ, then the scene with her running from him in the tunnel would have hit a lot harder. I just don't get what they thought they'd gain from making it all the actions of evil alien goo.
Uhhhh... but yeah. As always your perspective is super well reasoned and relatable, I love your script writing, and I'm happy you aren't afraid to call out negative aspects when you see them. Great stuff
They hated me when i said this
Some might scream sellout because of the raid ad, but I'm glad you took it, it's money that supports you which is important for you to keep making god tire content. Keep it up
i think the fact that raid is by an Israeli corporation makes this worse than "being just a shill"
@@SenumunuAlways someone ready to bring the mood down
@@Alkalion69 he’s right tho
while im not a fan of a raid sponsorship, i understand why he needs the money and i honestly think if whitelight had a better sponsor opportunity hed go for it
@chandllerburse737 but it shouldnt matter. People are people, suddenly them being from Israel makes them controversial or evil. It's no different than when people whined about Atomic Heart for that same dumb logic
Storywise, both Venom and Kraven were both phenomenal characters but in the grand scheme of things, they stole eachother's time and spotlight. Kraven was filler in Venom's story and vice versa. The third act is the most clear evidence of that because it felt like a whole other, different game shoehorned into a 3-4 hour gameplay sequence, it actually makes me a little angry at how different the whole symbote invasion would've been if it had it's own, 10-15 hour long, separate game? Like come on.
And this is just my own subjective opinion, but what irks me personally is that the first game was built - despite Spiderman overall being overused in both Marvel and Sony movies - on a fairly new and original things/ideas. From using new/barely used characters like Black Cat, Negative Man or Yuri/Wraith to even such small and potentially insignificant detail like the existence of F.E.A.S.T - so many things were just... refreshing. And what did they do in the 2nd game? They cast everything aside. Black Cat was once again a poor DLC bait, Wraith was well... there, Negative Man had his own, conflicting journey that could've been "more". Those were the characters that were NEEDED in the story, like how different the whole invasion would be if Peter instead of only having his own mini-me would've had [potentially playable] others to help? Like it's own mini-avengers line up?
Those are the two arguments that I felt the most after playing the game. I enjoyed what I saw and played but at the same time I can't help but feel how different Insomniac could've played this out, which for me is a downgrade from the 1st game.
Interesting. IMO, I think kraven is a great character with bad pacing and plot issues, and I feel venom is just a horrible character all around (besides his design which honestly is probably my favorite oat) I don’t want to really spend and hour of commenting to explain my thoughts, but I recently watched Godzillamandoza’s video on this game and he perfectly explained my own thoughts
Nothing about Venom as a character was phenomenal, it was the most one dimensional adaptation ever, and I genuinely mean ever.
Ironically, they ended up with the same problem as Spider-Man 3 even without the time constraints of a movie.
I would’ve much rather have seen Kraven become this game’s version of Venom as Kraven had far more potential with the Symbiote than Harry ever did. The writers really dropped the ball and played it way too safe with the whole Symbiote / Venom storyline.
@@chandllerburse737it would have made sense though
Finally some one else understands the way insomniacs web swinging is more than
quite restrictive