Marvel's Spider Man 2's VILLAIN PROBLEM
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- Опубліковано 31 гру 2023
- Don't get me wrong, still a great game! I critique because I care.
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I find it downright hilarious that literally everyone’s first action after seeing Miles new suit was to instantly take it off and replace with a better one 😂
Petition for the Cat Bodega to be Miles canon suit 😂
I’m one of the few heathens on this earth that unironically think the suit doesn’t look bad.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it has zero thematic reason to be there and it being an Adidas sponsorship doesn’t help it at all.
I kept it on for story reasons but after I beat the game it immediately came off
@@nikhilkapoor428 bro it looks like toothpaste
I honestly don't know what to tell you I think I just have bad taste sometimes@@UltimateSpiderMan
The weirdest part about them killing Shocker is that Kraven acknowledges that he was the ONLY one of the villains that could put his money where his mouth was.
That’s not at all true
@@SonnySantana2099 yes it was. Listen to the audiotapes. Kraven dissed Electro, was clearly disappointed in Scorpion, and while he thought maybe he couldn’t kill Vulture, he was disappointed that he did.
@@SonnySantana2099it’s definitely true, look at the reply above. When the New Game Plus update releases, replay that MJ mission, you already know he’s disappointed about Scorpion due to his facial expression during the cutscene, and if you explore enough, you find the audio logs. For Vulture, he states he thought the wings would be an issue, but they weren’t, and that he was disappointed, for Electro, he states that he was weak both physically and mentally, posing no challenge, but Shocker fought feral, and only to survive, actually putting up a challenge for him, even if he was still not enough.
It was a weirdly respectful moment for the Shocker of all characters
Never mock the Shocker, guy’s got a trick or two up his sleeve
Killing shocker kinda pissed me off cause 1, we didn't get to chase him to the ends of the earth and 2, he's my favourite villain. He could've had a redemption arc where he could've helped during the symbiote invasion. The only redeeming fact is that he was one of the tough ones
I honestly feel bad for the guy. In both games he just wanted to quit but was forced back into it by mr negative and Kraven before dying
Such a loss. I know they want Kraven to look like a big deal, but at least leave Shocker alive for the memes.
Honestly I found it odd that none of Spider man’s villains helped in the invasion like Tombstone or Black Cat especially Black Cat considering how much insomniac made nods to Web of Shadows in the last act.
@@IndecisiveJR black cat was sent to Paris and wanted to avoid putting her significant other that may or may not exist in danger and my man tombstone ain't sticking his neck out again. He's gotta lie low to keep a good rep. Plus there's always the chance one of them gets taken over
@@IndecisiveJR Black cat is in France tho (and honestly I hope she stays there for the foreseeable future)
Thombstone. Maybe but I feel like that would be a parol violation. Going out and punching symbiotes I mean. Unless it’s only self defense
I still can't get over how they killed most of Spider-Man's iconic villains off screen, it seems like such a waste, especially because they could've been used for side missions where you put them in jail by the end like in Arkham Knight, that would've been more interesting than another set of side activities that require me to do the same task again and again.
Agreed, maybe save them from Kraven
Because of lazy writing. They don't want to have those villains show up during the symbiote invasion. They even got rid of Black Cat early on.
with how all of Pete's villains with the exception of Otto have either died, left the city, or reformed, I fully expect them to write out Pete by the time of Spiderman 3
If they give us a Kraven the Hunter game or a Kraven the Hunter DLC for this game, where you go through and kill all those super villains playing as Kraven, then I will forgive it
@@marcusclark1339 what are you smoking to unironically think those things
Eddie doesn’t always need to be Venom but it genuinely hurts hearing people say he doesn’t matter for the character
It’s only the Insomniac fanboys or casuals .. real Spider-Man fans know Eddie is Venom.
It just makes me feel bad for those who want Eddie to be brought back into the spotlight. Even as someone who hasn’t touched the comics, it has to be total BS that the only recent adaptations of him is from a movie series that is divisive and a game that went over everyone’s radar.
@@r.graves5531not even close. Barely anyone knows agent venom, while most spiderman fans know venom
@r.graves5531 tell em a single casual fan that knows who the hell agent venom is. He hasn't been in a single movie and none of the shows people watched.
While I didn't mind Harry as Venom, I do wish they would've just went with Brock.
My favourite small detail is how Peter and Miles have different pictures of their friends and allies when they're on call.
Same here
Hey, it’s you.
Go play some mortal kombat.... jk love your content
Big fan of your content, I think I've seen your Injustice and MK videos over ten times, in all their lengthy glory
You cannot get off of NRS schlong can you?
Venom : heavily marketed
Also Venom : not even an hour of game play
Kraven has way more screen time and even he wasn’t marketed to the extent venom was. Venom even got his own statue lol.
They didn't even outright say he was gonna be playable. He got a lot of screen time for his time being in the game and he was marketed as a villain. We always get heavily marketed villains, when do we ever get to play them? I really dont get the complaint
@@jonwifebeaterjones6389That the heavily marketed villain wasn’t even a real threat in the game for 95% of the runtime it should’ve either solely focused on Venom or only on Kraven as the singular main villain
More like 65% he popped up in the middle of the second act and all of the third@@sdaspo4909
@@commonlogic763215 inches of venom
Not to mention that this version of Norman very clearly loves his son more than anything. It's not like the Raimi movies where he openly insults and brushes Harry off to praise Peter. I can't see a world where this Harry looks at this Norman showing a little affection to a dude who has been his son's best friend for years and years and still coming to the conclusion that his dad loves Pete more.
I can see what they were trying to do with Norman by having him love too much and make Harry annoyed by it but I think they needed to stick with that more and flesh it out.
Like maybe once Norman realizes that the suit is gone he tries to force Harry back into the stasis chamber but because Harry is traumatized by it(Along with Harry being addicted to the suit and his fear of dying)causes him to refuse.
Than that can cause Harry to get more mad at Pete because he blames him for not giving it up too him which also causes him to go nuts because he's trapped between a rock and a hard place.
I pray to the lord that they make (peter's) Spider-Man and the green goblin's battle SOO freaking personal.
Bloody personal.
I need it to be visceral and mentally engaging.
Outta the end of the fight? I need a message to come out of it.
Something that just sticks to the players.
I really hope this goblin hones in on making peter's life the MOST endangered, when compared to the freaking city of new york.
Especially when Mary Jane is in it.
I need this to be PERSONAL.
*Very personal...*
@@youngspecial64 the lore in the games universe runs too deep for it not to be *BLOOD PERSONAL*
@@kwayneboy1524 hopefully... if insomniac doesn't takes it that far, but they have a blueprint to work with.
You might've failed Venom.
But you can't fail on The Green Goblin.
You just can't.
@@youngspecial64speaking of green goblin….I really want the look from the comics. The silly purple tunic, the hat and the mask that moves with the face. Make it look partially like armor but also look fabricy
The fact that spectacular had planned an Eddie redemption arc for season 3 but then got cancelled will always make me mad, man
Biggest waste of potential
If it wasn't canceled, then we wouldn't be in this awful situation with venom Adaptions
@@ignite5329 you are so right
@@ignite5329 So true, Spectacular could've reinvented Eddie/Venom's characters, like how the 90s show defined many elements for spidey himself that's still being used nowadays, but was cut too soon
I'm not entirely sure about that, in fact I remember Weissman saying they didn't had a Venom redemption among their priorities.
Mad props for demanding creator support again. Cates' Venom was DOPE and he deserves it!
Agreed! A thank you in a production this size goes a long way. I hope in an update, Insomniac makes things right.
can't say I like the winged venom and dragon stuff, but give the man his dues
@@furkanveliisk5995yeah that's a little odd but the characters development of Both Eddie and the symbiote are incredible
@@Manuelaiello204eddie? Its harry bozo
@@user-yl7nz8zo4m I'm talking about Eddie in the cares run 💀
I was straight up applauding your entire speech on Venom being the specific union of Eddie and Suit, That is one of my biggest pet peeves in media whenever they try to just call the suit itself Venom & ignore its entire history with Brock and how they even formed the name. Also I really loved that cause Eddie was so JACKED Naturally the Symbiote took note of that & made Venom look More Imposing compared to when it was originally on Pete & Brock would constantly Lift Weights & Train to improve.
Ive Never cared for the
"Skinny dude just Becomes BIG AF Venom"
Route They been doing.
👏👏. Modern media has also steered away from Venom being an evil Spider-Man counterpart who shoots webs. Now he’s just a gooey hulk that uses tentacles
@@BM-sg1slexactly! The tentacles are cool but the webs are so much better
Yeah the thing with Venom being the union between Eddie Brock and the symbiote is a problem, but in this game they suggest that in this universe, Venom is the union between Harry and the symbiote.
Same. Have the exact thought too and nobody even questioning it. Like why did it call itself venom in this version out of nowhere??? Hell, the 90s badass Spiderman cartoon gave perfect reason for venom name to be made. Was great.
Omg don't get me started how did a sick and prickly Harry Osborn turn into that massive Venom ?!?!? That really pissed me off
The fact that a venom game was in the insomniac leaks and the fact that they only used 10% of tony todds recorded dialogue makes venom being rushed make a lot more sense. Its honestly such a shame that they had to completely neuter venom in this game just to make room for him to have his own game. It really feels like they cut out a lot of venom so they can set up another game and that just really rubs me the wrong way
There's also the possibility they just didn't have the time/resources to fulfill the original vision they had, iirc they did mention that was the case hence the final act had to be changed
The leaks did confirm that Sony rushed them
@@jaydenwilson8371did they say what the original plan for Venom was?
@@mikephelps9238 no but they cut content in the third act. They didn’t say what specially, but they said they cut content to make the deadline. Most likely my guess is more boss fights with venom
It won’t bother you anymore when the game comes out
A major issue the story always runs into is the big bad having countless goons you have to fight.
Kingpin having a vast criminal army makes sense
Mister Negatives army is a bit strange, but there is a gap in power sooooo its ok
Kraven wanting a better hunt and bringing all 50,000 buddies with him is a bit weird
Venom having a whole army out of nowhere is so insane
What's funny is I think there is a better explanation for the symbiote army staring Insomniac in the face.
Now, I think the symbiote army is kind of dumb, but if you really really want it:
Have the hunters split as a faction after Venom kills Kraven. Some of them follow the old way, but others start to revere Venom as the new apex hunter. They come to Venom as supplicants, and Venom spawns symbiote offspring to bond with them and increase their power.
This also gets around the weird problem of having all the main character symbiotes have actual motivations and draw on their hosts memories and fears, while all the goon symbiotes are just raging monsters. It would actually make all the goon symbiotes voluntary hosts undergoing symbiosis, and you could give them fun symbiote dialogue about how they are now stronger than even Kraven ever dreamed. Way more interesting, in my opinion, than just a bunch of shouting growling monsters in the city.
@@kellymccabe9154You pretty much just fixed an issue with the game
@@kellymccabe9154 Insomniac seems to have a habit of ignoring better solutions that are starring right at them.
Norman being angry at Spider-Man at the end of the game should stem from the fact that he pretty much stole his son's life support and refused to give it back to him. When he did give it back, it turned his son into a raging monster. They literally never show or mention anything about Norman's reaction to Harry losing the symbiote or that Spider-Man is conveniently wearing a black suit now. That is a much better explanation than "Oh I know that I asked you to save my son, he's a in a coma now but I hate you anyway arrghh"
Or that you could still have a classic Venom with Harry by making his hatred for Spider-Man stem from the fact that he taunted him while he was dying and his "heal the world" Ideologie turns him into an anti hero that kills criminals to heal the world from scum. If they reeeally wanted a Symbiote invasion then just tie Carnage into the story. You already built him up in a side mission, just incorporate that into the main story and have the end of the game consist of Peter, Miles and Harry reconciling and defeating Carnage together. Smth smth "be greater together" and "second chances for your enemies" fuck man this shit was literally starring right back at them.
Out of nowhere? Lots of symbiote plots revolve around him possessing lots of people for an army
@pn2294 well, usually it's other symbiotes doing the take over the world thing. Venom is usually working with Spidey to stop the symbiote invasion.
But more than that, the invasion is 'out of nowhere here because it's so fast. If you compare to Web of Shadows, which spends so much time slowly building up the invasion as Venom is sneaking around and building up their forces, then yeah, SM2 happens 'out of nowhere'
I think my thing with how this game handled multiple villains was that I never felt once that Venom was this game's Otto Octavius. Kraven never felt like the step towards a bigger threat that Mr Negative clearly ended up as in the first game and in a lot of ways, I think he actually had a meaningful parallel in place with the decision to make Harry Venom. Both are characters that feel betrayed by their own bodies due to circumstances they can't control, but Kraven wants to give his death a sense of meaning and impact so as to close his family's legacy, and Osborn wants to fulfil his family's legacy not by making the most of the time he has left, but finding another chance to preserve himself and what his mother stood for. The game heavily meditates on the idea of rebirth or redemption even in smaller ways like Quentin Beck and Lonnie Lincoln turning a new leaf, and even Peter being twisted into believing he'll right all his personal burdens with the symbiote attached to him. It was actually kind of poignant even if the writing's way of communicating this can be very overt at points
This game missed a lot of emotional weight. Aunt May’s death made me cry because of the history of the character. Harry isn’t as important to me
If only Spider-Man 2 was all about the Black Suit storyline and Kraven as the main villain of it all.
We could've had something special.
God...
It could've been *BEAUTIFUL*
@@superjlk_9538 I feel like even though the first game had bigger individual emotional beats like aunt mays death and Otto’s betrayal , as a whole Spider-Man 2 had me more consistently emotionally invested , everything was more introspective this time around at least in my opinion
@@phantom3146agreed with this point most definitely.
The way the story rushes through different story beats is certainly noticeable and hurts the writing, but the theme itself of reform and turning over a new leaf is something I do like.
Considering how many casual observers like to ask "why doesn't X just kill this criminal?" (you see this pop up a lot with Batman) when it comes to any fictional story, it's nice that the game tries to give an answer as to why.
We yelled shocker, but not in anger, in mourning
The irony that so far MCU Spider-Man is the main recent adaptation to completely avoid the “villain is a friend of mine from the past!” storyline.
That's because MCU Spiderman is barely an adaptation. It uses the right names, but every character is different and Pete for some reason is this pathetic fan boy.
Pete's a genius, he doesn't need Tony Stark to hold his hand and baby him into superhero-dom. And then, because Robert Downey Junior carried the franchise Peter has to have his entire traumatic emotional arc based around *Tony Stark* being his emotional rock.
It took until No Way Home for Spiderman to actually feel like Spiderman. After three movies, we finally get a sight of the bleeding heart, obsessively heroic Spiderman.
And it's not like I blame Tom Holland, I actually kind of like him for young, dweeby Spiderman. I blame the writers for wanting Baby Iron Man to hang the franchise on, not Spiderman.
No they go with "the villain has beef with Tony stark/ other universe spiderman" insted
Well... It's kind of a ironmanny subversion of that
Vulture dad of Peter's date and rival of Tony Stark.
Mysterio rival of Peter's adopted dad Tony Stark.
NWH: All villains related to his other dimensions counterparts and no villains from his universe.
Heck, the concept art shows Goblin was going to rep Stark tech...
Otto and Electro are upgraded with Stark tech...
This trilogy is more interlinked to Iron Man than Spider-man
@@lorelord2418but the good thing is No Way Home sets up a more comic accurate Spider-Man, by essentially removing all support he had from other MCU characters allowing him to do his own thing and become a friendly-neighbourhood-Spiderman
Yuri’s origin story for becoming Wraith is her getting the most horrendous karen haircut known to man and condemning the rest of humanity because of it.
Fr. They really did both her and Miles dirty with their new suits. They both look awful.
@@kingbash6466 At least most of Miles’ costumes cover it, except for the rancid main story suit 🤮
I don’t think her haircut looks bad when she has the mask on, quite the opposite, but with the mask off, it looks bad. Although I’d still rather see Yuri/Wraith without the mask on over Miles with the Evolved Suit.
Nah, her new haircut suits her. The outfit is really meh though.
I legitimately don't understand why they didn't just take her suit from the comics (with some practical twist because Insomniac likes to do that)
Wraiths costume design in this game is just trash. Looks like something the CW would give a side character in The Flash.
Norman reacting the way he does to Spiderman saving Harry at the end is like a Dad getting angry at a Fireman for saving their kid, but they got some third-degree burns 😂
Really didn't enjoy Normans Green Goblin set up.
It'd be one thing if Harry had died at the end and he blames Spiderman for it, but to still have that hope that he's alive kind of kills all the tension for me.
Norman doesn't know they ''saved'' Harry tho. He wanted him alive and not as a vegetable. Out of universe we know that if Harry's still alive, Insomniac probably wants to use him in the 3rd game. But in-universe the chance that Harry will wake up is almost zero.
Considering everything that Norman did in this series to save Harry (like creating a fucking bioweapon that could create a pandemic and kill millions of people), it's not crazy to see him losing his mind after seeing the Spider-Men bringing his son half dead to him. This version of Norman is notable for blaming everyone else for his mistakes and not accepting to be held accountable for his actions. I think it's in character and the set-up for him in this universe is good. He is basically responsible for almost all the bad things that happened in these games and now he will be the ultimate villain for Peter.
@@igorbrandao6735 I just think Beggers can't be choosers, last time he saw Harry, he was a giant monster with no signs of humanity LITERALLY trying to take over the world. Then the next time he's back to normal and all he does it moan and swear revenge on the one guy who was actually trying to help.
If anything he should be angry at Curt Connors for telling Spiderman the only way is to kill him.
Making a character desperate or crazy doesn't excuse lazy rushed writing imo. Especially in a video game where you have much longer to build up these arcs.
@@Thenesrookie Yeah, but Norman doesn't care if Harry is a monster trying to take over the world or not, he just wants his son alive and well. That's why he asks Peter to save him somehow. Harry is the only thing Norman has left. He even says in the first game that the pain of losing Emily doesn't go away with time, it just gets worse. He doesn't want the same thing hapenning with his son.
And considering all that, that's why for him it doesn't matter if his son is not big goop monster anymore, if he's almost dead then what's the point?
I don't think that is an excuse either, it's a character trait. Norman generally doesn't have the better judgment or the rational action because he would rather blame other people for his failures. Harry even becoming Venom in the first place is due to Norman's obsession with finding a cure. Obviously it's not Spider-Man's fault he is in that state, but Norman doesn't care. We see this poor judgment several times in the series
@igorbrandao6735 doesn't really work considering he was in the same room with Connors when he said that survival for Harry without the symbiote isn't possible
They want to make Green Goblin as a sympathetic villain just like all the Insomniac's villains.
When suggesting that the venom symbiote be named "Suit" I audibly laughed because I imagined that it mistook Peter referring to it as "the suit" as an affectionate nickname rather than like, what he literally thought it was.
I actually didn’t notice this until the second time playing through the game. When Miles is captured by Kraven, we see that Rio and Ganke are trying to find him but one character we don’t see this from is Uncle Aaron. After the completion of his side mission he just disappears and I know he’s retired the Prowler but when his beloved nephew is missing you’d think he’d do anything to find him. Which could potentially lead to a future story line or something. It might’ve been easier to just have it be that Aaron is still in prison.
I mean, he's only in the game because of his side missions
It's just like Arkham Knight, Nightwing is in Gotham, but he won't save Batman at the end of the game from Scarecrow.
@@LeonardoSilva-xm8ft True, but it just feels a little strange that we never hear from him again. I honestly feel like the side quest could’ve still been done while Aaron is still in prison. The upgrade that you get by completing it could just be obtained from one of the Prowler stashes.
You people ask for too much lol it’s just a game not real life
@@MrAjking808 What exactly is too much?
@@ronniefazzio6979 thinking way too much into these characters it’s not real life
Spider-Man 3: "MJ; this is my old friend from college, Alistair Smythe."
Honestly the opportunity to have Eddie Brock to be Venom was there, Mj working at the bugle could set up Eddie in a slow but methodical way and main quest options with Harry could relate to the story Eddie was writing, or maybe Eddie was trying to do an expose on the Emily-May foundation and Peter with the black suit (due to stress from Kraven) makes a big mistake and ruins Eddie's career.
I said something like this to people before and got ridiculed to hell for it. Glad I'm not the only one who thought this
This can work honestly it would but my main thing is that it has to be thematic with the story as Harry is thematically connected to Kraven so how would Eddie be themaitically connected?
@@kwayneboy1524 Both have nothing to lose. The status is inverted. Brock's life falls apart around him while Kraven's life is quite literally falling apart. One has health but no career while the other has a career but no health. IDK if this sounds good, made this up in 3 min lol
@@lucas169 still needs to have more to it In-order to work because Kraven's them is dying and choosing how he goes out Eddie has to at least be going through something just as bad and more than a lost job.
Maybe he tries to kill himself like he did in the comics afterwards or something I dunno but all I'm saying it can still work but it needs a strong thematic connection.
@@kwayneboy1524Bro sometimes losing a job is all you need … If you lose your job, you might lose your apartment and end up homeless .. can’t eat either and you were humiliated by the fact that Peter is doing well.
They probably pushed Yuri Lowenthal down the stairs to get those pained screams when peter takes the symbiote off.
It’s so nice to see more credit given to Midnight Suns’ handling of Venom. I feel like most all characters in that game were handled exactly how they should be. It’s a damn shame that game doesn’t get the love it deserves because it took me right back to the Ultimate Alliance days.
YUP
Just sucks that it's a card game
Although not sure how to feel about Spiderman making a deal with Mephisto to heal Venom of his Lilith possession and blood madness. I feel like the last thing people needed to be reminded of is “one more day.”
Midnight Suns is a COMIC BOOK game first
@@purpleperfection6304 it’s a shame I don’t see more people talking about it. Kind of a bummer that we probably won’t get a sequel. Especially after the exciting tease at the end…
I can't even explain why Howard mission just broke me and sent me in a crying session that lasted for 10 minutes 😂
Howard is the goat!
Rip Howard
I was laughing my ass off becuse he died in literally 15 minuites like homie had an off switch
The way Howard was talking about his life it was easy to figure this was his final appearance, but man his speech was amazing.
Same lmao
So wait, Miles' Venom blast is made into an over the top electro-kinesis, meanwhile Peter's symbiote is turned into an over the top flesh goblin that shoots tendrils in every direction...
What is this, an inFAMOUS and [PROTOTYPE] crossover?
I think the problem with these games is that everyone is too nice. So any type of conflict feels so weird when everyone is usually giving out cookies and rainbows.
Insomniac needs to have more balls
That’s baby inc touching
@@geniusgamerr4517
Yep especially with Miles' friend group. Seemed like Peter was just there to be shat on and that guy who had the right to the museum instruments even though he's not even a villain
I don't think they're too nice but rather the big baddies have justifiable reasons except kraven that guy is straight up insane
@@spider-man5544 really?? Do you know anyone who speaks like miles friend group does in real life? They sound like Full House characters where everything they say is nice or in support of each other
God, Midnight Suns was written so well and had so much heart and charm right down to its core. Can we please get a sequel to THAT?! PLEASE?!?!?
The thing I didn't like about Venom in that game there was that he acted like a buffoon when he had the costume on, emulating the Sony movie, which was different from when he was just Eddie.
So much dialogue in that game makes me tear up because its just so heartfelt.
@LordShrub That's the issue with modern Venom
He's either a mindless monster, or an over the top goofy anti-hero.
Gone are the days where he starts out as a personal threat to Peter, only to with time, develop and improve himself.
@@LordShrub Emulating Sony movie? Clearly you don't know wtf you're talking about. As if anything it was a nod to Venom in the 90s as well as the animated series in that era.
Only if it drops the card gameplay. I'll take Marvel Ultimate Alliance or even RPG gameplay over that.
Given that they hit Venom with a case of Adaptational Villainy, I think it'd be cool if a future adaptation of the webslinger did the opposite except, Venom's only an hero in an attempt to upstage Spider-Man.
Also I guess we got to see what Seteth's Dragon Form looks like considering who voices the Lizard (Mark Whitten)
Also I definitely agree they should've left Shocker alone.
I can't express to you my immeasurable disappointment when I got to that Shocker reveal 😒
That's literally Venom
He is an Anti-Hero to others
But to Peter? He was a nightmare.
@@spider-man500 Yeah but Venom started out as a straight villain before going to anti-hero.
That story works better for Mysterio though
The Edelgard Discourse will never cease
Vulture in Spider-Man Homecoming was kinda like that, except in reverse. Adrian Toomes was built up as a weapons dealer with scorn for Spider-Man first, and then the personal connection was revealed afterwards
Ngl I kinda hope the MCU does this with Venom. Maybe in SM4 he stops the Sin Eater and no one thinks twice about it. Then in a later movie Venom can show up and at first Peter and the audience has no idea who he is which could lead to him trying to investigate Venom’s identity. Sometime later Venom can reveal himself as Eddie Brock who lost his job because of the Sin Eater incident.
I’ve always wandered wondered why MJ is so difficult for people to write. She’s never been done well in any media other than comics.
I also think any media that does write her semi decently either ends too early or don’t let her do anything too important. It must be a curse or something, surely she’s not that difficult to write.
Spectacular Spider-Man did her well.
I think they did well with her in the Spectacular Spider-man cartoon but even then her development is limited because that show was only 26 episodes.
@@DinoDave150Fr I love spectacular MJ so much. Everytime she’s onscreen she steals the show. It’s genuinely the best MJ adaptation outside the comics.
I like her in these games. Hate her in Tobey’s trilogy.
Eddie suffers from the same problems as Felicia Hardy: adaptations prefer to write from how they started out and ignore what they became over time. I think the last Spider-Man adaptation to acknowledge Felicia's heroic phase was Spider-Man Web of Shadows.
She was good in this game too.
@@ascendedsavage7040 No, she's not. She pretty much bs-ing in this game. A pathetic excuse to steal a relic portal to travel to Paris because of her "gf"? lol Nothing heroic about it.
@@zeroskaterz92 her “gf” was in danger so she teamed up with Spider-Man to both fight the hunters and go and save her gf. How isn’t that heroic?
@@ascendedsavage7040 Except she's not team-up with Spider-Man. Her mission was literally just her ran away from both Spider-Man and hunters in posession of a stolen relic that she clearly didn't give it back.
Considering the fact she lied about her son before. What makes you think her line about her gf is legit to begin with? Did the game actually showed her gf afterwards? No. Her character just completely gone from the game after that mission.
She just bounced off to Paris and has no direct conflict against Kraven nor Symbiote Invasion whatsoever.
Tell me, what's so heroic about her character in this game?
@@zeroskaterz92 “what’s so heroic about her character in the game?” teaming up with Spider-Man to beat the hunters and going to save her gf. If she was lying about her gf the game would’ve (like how they did the baby) also there’s physical evidence that her girlfriend exist (also she literally gave the wand back). Why would she need to have direct conflict with kraven or the symbiotes to be heroic? She teamed up with Spider-Man to beat bad guys for a heroic reason
I like how there’s someone out there with a great measured critique that really tries breaking down the pitfalls in the story. It seems like with opinions with game lean too far into either hating or loving this game too much.
Always good to have a critic like that
Fr
Agreed, it's refreshing since most of the discussion this game had was, either, a perfect 10/10 masterpiece, or complete woke garbage
@@ayrtonjogaI'm all aboard for critiquing games, but if someone's review starts out swinging with "woke" I'm probably gonna ignore it. The biggest issue with so-called "woke" media, is that it's supposedly using diversity as a method of deflecting legitimate criticisms with the writing. If that's the case, I'd rather just hear said writing criticisms instead, like how venom is portrayed as a more one note "take over the world" villain instead of his usual anti hero self. That feels a lot more solid of a critique than "danika annoying 🥺" or "gay optional side mission bad". I've heard countless people say "oh I don't hate that [insert media here] is diverse, I just think it "takes away from the writing", without actually discuss HOW the writing is bad, and it comes off as disingenuous.
@@thesteelsquid863I mean, danika is annoying, I bet in the third game she will be discussing Peter's personal life too on her podcast
As someone who also adores Venom. I very much agree with you on how they mishandled Venom in this game and it really just disappointed me because I know they could have done better because of how well they handled the first game. But also Venom's potential was so high. If they put as much love and effort into delivering an amazing Venom story as they did with delivering an amazing Doc Ock story it could have been the one of the best things in the series but as it stands it just something that kind of disappoints me. More because of the potential of what could have been more than what we actually got.
I hope a potential venom game can fix some of the issues here, cause I wanna see Insomniac get a second chance (hehehehehe) and delivering a good venom story
same@@winterv.4715
Same. It's even doubly disappointing considering the absolute stroke of genius getting Tony Todd as Venom. I really hope we get some version of Eddie Venom with Insomniac
We would've been better off if it was Eddie brock whoever decided it was gonna be Harry has no brain cells
@@GrifterTheBoyIdiot absolutely not, Harry had more narrative importance in the first game without leaving his stasis tank than Eddie, who only ever got a mere Easter Egg. All they had to do was lean more into the fact that Harry was dying and Peter was being coy about giving back the one thing that could cure him and have Peter be more of a scumbag to Harry when he had the suit
If Spectacular had been allowed to continue, Eddie propably would have gotten that amazing redemption anti-hero we-need-you-to-stop-carnage arc some of us know and love him for.
Venom should have been like Mr X but with an actual character. Always stalking Peter or Miles, but also has an emotional story to Peter and Miles.
Definitely a missed opportunity.
Venom: Parker and Morales hate it when I get the drop on them.
The Venom everywhere system would have been horrifying to think
@@drmeduimant5066 Exactly! He can show up anymore and it makes you, the player, question if it’s even safe to swing around.
This review made me realise something...
Imagine if the venom we got was the serial stalker constantly making you feel paranoid?
Imagine if, during the Kraven segment of the game, we had those random attacks like we did in the first game, where random citizens turn out to be covert Kraven baddies waiting to ambush you, but your spider sense warns you ahead of time, maybe find a reason to encourage players to stay close to the ground at times to encourage those ambushes
But then we get to the venom segment, and you've started relying heavily on your spider sense, which venom now doesn't trigger. Give the story more of a Peter and Miles focus, where Peter goes to try and get another teaching job but Harry (or maybe Eddie for making it make sense) shows up at the school, maybe say he's picking up a kid named Dylan as a little reference to his own kid, but Peter feeling immediately on edge because Eddie is there around so many kids Peter is personally responsible
It would even create a nice parallel from the start of the game where Peter runs away from the school towards the fight against sandman, to now the fight has come to Peter and he has directly put the kids in danger
the rage quits would be wild and would ruin the open world
@@odd-dev
Their loss. Rage quitting over challenge is pointless.
@@odd-devway better than what we got
@@phantomgamer9264 but still tho
@@radrno7 rage quiting after being killed because you wanted to swing around the open world
I remember Troyoboyo17 mentioned the idea that Kraven could've been Venom, & I can't help but think about how much cooler that would've been, Kraven with no limitations, just the combined mindset of him & the symbiote agreeing to completely torture Peter, just like Venom originally was.
I initially thought Peter would be Venom. Like Harry is a bait and switch and after the Kraven story, the suit just takes over Peter too far. He refuses to take it off and give it back to Harry. He can still find the strength to rip it off at the end, but he would become the final villain of the game and we play as Miles. It would give Miles far more importance to the end of the game, he felt so shoehorned into the Venom/Harry situation. He would have personal ties to Peter becoming Venom. And then because Peter refuses to return the symbiote to Harry, Harry could still fall into his coma causing Norman to blame Spider-Man, and tests the back up cure for Harry on himself, becoming Goblin.
@@Luke101And you can have Lee redeem himself by helping Miles on the Battle against Venom
@@Luke101What would Peter's motivation be?
I think it should be Peter after everything now believing that the villains need to be put down for good
The only problem is that Venom would sound kinda silly with a Russian accent.
@@brewmaster2912 That and Kraven just isn't the kind of guy who would use Venom.
Also he has no personal connection to Peter Parker specifically so the emotional weight won't be there.
I agree with many people that Peter should of been Venom.
1: It would trust be fresh
2: It would only strengthen Peter's Fall to the Symbiote and grief arc.
3: His motivation as a said already would be about him believing he needs to kill the villains to stop them for good
This would still keep Peter's "heroic" nature there even as Venom,
and it would be a little bit of a reference to Anti-Hero Venom that is being so much these days, while still keeping him as a true Antagonist for the story.
4: It would allow Miles Morales to be important for the third act by being the one to unite "Redeemed"/"Redeemable" villains(Lee, Black Cat, Wraith ect;) and lead the team against Peter/Venom. And given how it will be too save the villains and criminals from Peter, it would all ultimately really go with the whole "Villains deserve second chances" theme the game TRIED to do.
Also it won't be a cliche giant Monster taking over the world.
That's another plus.
So if this is the Halloween Kills of Spider-Man games, does that mean Spider-Man 3 will have Norman be completely sidelined by Roderick Kingsley who takes all of Norman's tech to become Hobgoblin after being gaslit by everyone into becoming a supervillain for an incident that wasn't remotely his fault and only after being defeated by Peter and Miles, Norman comes back in the last act to finally become the Green Goblin?
On one hand it would cool because I’m a big Hobgoblin mark, but at the same time I hate accurate that sounds
This game seems to suffer from alot of the same problems as Spider man 3, The Amazing Spider man 2, Batman v Superman, and of course Halloween Kills in that it's trying to do so much into so little time and as a result it feels rushed, convoluted, and messy.
@@tylerbertram7065 This is especially noticeable here because usually with movies you're limited to a 2-3 hour runtime but with a game you've got more time to flesh things out, so the fact that this 20-30 hour game still feels rushed says a lot about how they tried to bite off more than they could chew.
@DinoDave150 and sad part is Insomniac has no one else to blame but themselves atleast with Spider man 3 alot of it (not all but alot) wasn't Sam Raimi fault he no interest in adapting Venom and only did it because Sony exst told him to, because the people at Sony were in love with the Symbiot story.
This sounds accurate except for the part where peter actually comes back
54:40 that was my only issue I had with venom in this game. They shouldn’t have done web of shadows invasion, they should have had him be a silent stalker trying to destroy Peter’s life as both Peter Parker and spiderman, and have the final level be at the high school as a poetic final battle
But then the nostalgia blind Twitter fanboys would complain about how “this venoms so nerfed and a bitch like Hardy’s venom, web of shadows venom was the shit back in the day he led a symbiote invasion”.
One of my biggest problem with the two main villains from this game is just how distant they feel. Like we just get to hear in the story that how dengerous Kraven is but after he killed the sinister six(well we only get to see one, the others are killed off screen huh) we never see it like he always let his minions do all the work when he pretty much stayed in his lair and same goes for venom after getting the meteorite, not even the meteorite after he infacting MJ we never get to fight him or anything, he just stay in his ugly as lair until the finale. This two antagonist feels so distant with the story and depends so much on their minions which is so jarring cause they are both the opposite of it. There's so much issue I also have like the macguffin meteorite which we don't know anything about!? Seriously the fact that thing get destroyed in the end and we don't even know anything about it at all it's baffling to be honest!
For real. Kraven having that many goons doing the busy work for him hurts his impact as this unstoppable predator.
I swear this game is missing 5 hours of story in between
@@Luke101 they really didn't do justice with the antagonists of this game and also the sinister six, like seriously they died and it have(it's also sad that this iconic villains died off screen except for Scorpion wow) no impact heck even when Kraven died it didn't make any impact neither to the main characters or to the story!
@@DOWNTOWNMAK seriously it feels like this game needed one more year of development for story and everything else! I just hope the upcoming Venom game do justice to the story and to Venom as whole and also give us some answers for the symbiote origins
@@anirbandaschoudhary2874 plot twist: the whole arc of harry infesting the city with symbiotes will be the spin off venom game 😂😂😂
the whole eddie brock dive in is a reason why i love this channel, you understand these characters and how they could adapt them right, insomniac should really REALLY read everything venom before making his solo game
Another thing that bothered me about Venom in this game was his lack of weaknesses, I get that they wanted to have some cool imagery with him walking through the fire etc but they had the perfect chance to give Miles a leg up on the symbiotes through his electricity like in the ultimate comics.
Like fighting against the symbiotes as Peter in the third act was a no brainer everytime because of the weakness they have to the anti venom while Miles literally gets no advantage and is pretty much made futile during that act which I think should’ve been the least they could do considering they completely forget about his invisibility.
Wasn't Miles' electricity effective against the regular symbiote goons? The same should've applied to Venom.
@@ubermaster134 I’m pretty sure it was just the same stun it done for the regular enemies, no advantage to that specific enemy type which sucks
They 100% completely forgot about Miles’ invisibility. I would go invisible and the enemy would still see me. It was just so dumb…
Bryan Intihar has talked about how they wanted to streamline Venoms weaknesses to only be high frequency sound for the sake of videogame simplicity. They explicitly have "Agent Venom" go through the fire to save Tombstone and he says it doesn't hurt him to communicate it.
@@magictriangle6878 even so it’s still lame that they have material to source from where electricity is a weakness to the suit and a character that has bioelectrical powers that they ignore when they give a character powers later on that pose a greater threat to the symbiote.
So... Venom has a Frankenstein complex?
How most see it:
Creation = Frankenstein
Symbiote = Venom
How it actually is:
Creation = Frankenstein's Monster
Symbiote = "The Suit"
Symbiote + Host = Venom
Yes
Everyone says “We are Venom” but few actually understand what that means.
I do agree the stories for the side missions are pretty good for the street level stuff. Its why I am hoping that Insomniac will do a Daredevil game justice. Especially using Mr. Fear or The Purple Man.
Eh,I feel like Jessica has a much better impact on Kilgrave than Matt does
The man behind the slaughter
Yeah i want insomniac to make a Daredevil game as well
Bro forgot about stilt man😔
My biggest issue with the game is how rushed Venom feels at the end. Barely any missions for him
One of the biggest takeaways from this video for me is “wtf midnight suns is good?!?”
“The Turn Based RPG Card Game (that’s also a dating sim) has a better Venom than Insomniac’s Venom” is certainly a sentence.
In relation to the villain having to be someone Spider-Man knows, when I got to the part of Rio Morales mentioning that she dating someone, I jokingly thought the twist would be that Kraven is her boyfriend
I legit thought on my first play through her boyfriend was gonna be Eddie Brock
@@HankingMySchradersame
Honestly, I think the easy way to fix Venom in the possible spin-off, is to imply that the whole take over the world thing was primarily due to the hive mind from the rock and other force behind it aka Knull. And after it was destroyed symbiote now acts like it's classic self. They already showed Knull symbol on the rock, so there's at least an implication of his part of the universe.
And heck, with Xavier's explanation about Eddie's character, it shows you can just introduce him without setting him up as some close friend to Peter. So, you can just make him the protagonist of the spin-off without much without. setupI just hope it's one of the critcism Insomniacs will also take into account.
Yeah, it kinda felt like insomniac wanted so hard to make venom original but forgot what makes venom special as a flipped super hero archetype
I feel if we get a venom game. It be about Eddie getting venom maybe uhh venom finds him and bonds with him
Thank you for pointing out that the problem with Venom isn't just the lack of Eddie but also the shallow characterazation of the Symbiote
The no free will thing is what bugged me the most. Venom is compelling because at the end of the day Brock wants to be Venom. Harry was just a puppet which is so boring.
I do referred to the Carnage symbiote as Red, but I think the Venom symbiote should be called The Other. Y'know... like it's always called by Eddie.
Overall, you knocked it outta the park.
Always love when someone praises the Guardians of the Galaxy game. It’s so underrated!!!
Game was a decent upgrade from the other 2 but you can definitely feel where it was rushed. From the missing features that we have to wait for for months, to Brian Intihar himself saying they didn’t meet the quality bar they were hoping for. Someone somewhere tempered with the development of this game and it shows
it takes away things from the last 2 games so it is a downgrade.
@@matthewbraith0411we could’ve had the Arkham city of spider man games but we fell so short.
And the one's who did.
Were SONY.
Freak those guys.
@leviticusprime4904 we still CAN... it just wasn't meant to be with their sequel.
They can STILL pull of something legendary with their Green Goblin arc! Sadly, it wasn't chosen for Venom.
Which i dearly wanted.
"From the missing features that we have to wait for for months, to Brian Intihar himself saying they didn’t meet the quality bar they were hoping for"
The hell you talking about?
I’m impressed at Xavier’s ability to articulate his thoughts in a thorough and respectful fashion. Probably one of the most consistent reviewers I actually trust
I even used a quote from his Deadpool sucks video in a university presentation.
37:36 what you said about Peter intentionally turning Harry into venom as a desperate attempt to save his friend was genuinely what I thought Peter was gonna do while playing the second act. I figured since Harry was such a good guy they were going to somehow use Peter’s desperation and the danger kraven presents as the trigger for venom.
This would have been an interesting adaptation because ultimately it would be Harry now losing control but intentionally introduced as as a hero/anti hero before becoming a villain as opposed to starting as a villain and becoming an anti hero.
Insomniac almost did this but as you said they didn’t put enough of the motivation on Peter.
“Thanks for coming Pete” got my hopes up so much that he’d be goofier than I heard but nope
The voice acting definitely helped get me through the story. Everyone was on their a game though I wish Tony Todd got better material to work with as venom.
I mean, we dont really know the full scope of his material, remember, 90% of his lines were cut
@@ignite5329 Exactly my point. Hopefully the full version will be released one day
I hope you’re able to see your grandpa westly again man.
Good news! He's actually visiting town today and I'm about to go see him!
@@GodzillaMendozasmashing mate congrats
Cutscenes where my worst enemy. As you pointed out, Spidy could become a beast during regular gameplay, but get taken down with the dumbest plot contrivances when you weren't in control.
I was noticing this
Like, most of the missions don't seem so "heroic" or very cool compared to 2018 and miles
Especially with Peter, Peter in the first game got beaten but at least he didn't do nothing, Of the 5 times Peter encounters Venom, 4 times he pathetically "loses"
I really appreciate your long, passionate rant about my number one most favorite character in Marvel, Eddie Brock/Venom being butchered for many years now. I felt like I was acknowledged.
I'm with you, friend . When they said it wasn't Eddie, I lost it. I have never been more angry over a game in my entire life this was Venom PS5 debut in a triple A game . He's been my favorite Spiderman Villain since I was a kid . Not just Eddie's lack of appearance in the game pissed me off in my opinion they botched alot of things in the game. I gave it a 5 out of 10 and to me the only thing that will redeem this game is Venom coming back for the solo game as Eddie Brock and with Black webbing and camouflage powers . I want to see the real 616 Venom .
@@adiasdiante1010 I bet they'll say that Eddie Brock doesn't exist in the Insonmiac universe.
@@adiasdiante1010 Pretty much erasing that Daily Bugle card signature from existence.
@UnwantedGhost1-anz25 they would totally pull that bs. I can see them saying that 😑
I know your not a Spider-Man channel; however I found you through that and have fallen in love with your content for the past two or three years. Keep going Xavier you're doing great.
Next game, they’re gonna do the friend turned foe with Norman as Green Goblin, which actually makes sense.
I remember playing this game and I saw that they had 2099 in the black suit and was like “ oh yea Godzilla gunna say something about that for sure”. And the fact that he brought it up in the first minute is amazing 😂😂
Something I have an issue with is that everyone seems a bit too nice, like every character is super wholesome, everyone is brilliant and every citizen loves both the Spider-Men.
I'm all for going against the cynical or edgy showings of superheroes but here it feels like a plush gentrified version of New York
That shit drags the writing down so much in these games. These games just feel off to me compared to other Sony games like GoW, InFamous or GoT. I get that it's Spider-Man and kids should be able to enjoy it but it's still rated 16+ at the end of the day and there is no reason for everyone to be so wholesome. NY is such a wild city with crazy mfs, represent some of that. It's frustrating because these games could easily be 8 or 9/10s but they always stop at a 7/10 for me due to things like this.
I feel the same way. Everyone feels two-faced, like they're putting on a "nice guy" façade, and it throws me off. I can't see these characters as *people* because they just don't feel like it, you know?
Absolutely agree. The writing took a nose dive from the first game imo. Hell, I can't remember any quips other than the "fresh out of honey" one, and I could name half of the ones in the first game by heart! All of the characters act like nerdy youth pastors, none of them have an edge or some sort of character introspection. Peter is just a good guy who wants to do good, Miles is just a good guy who wants to do good, MJ is just a good gal who wants to do good, Harry is just a good guy who wants to do good. There is no introspection, no interesting side that we get to see. They are all super basic and there is very little development except for Peter and Miles dealing with grief. Woohoo, MJ is now a... Podcast host? Great development, good going everyone.
@@Nick_261 Not only that, it takes away from what the plot needs, which is a dangerous, threatening Peter. He doesn't really do anything super awful; he's an asshole and that's that. In TAS he nearly kills Shocker and Eddie, threatens JJJ, and treats people awfully to the point where the city actually sees him as a menace. In Spider-Man 3 he was proud of killing Sandman (even though Flint survived) and was perfectly fine with killing Harry (you can't tell me an average human would survive an explosion to the face). In here… he's mean to Harry and MJ. The symbiote tells him to kill but he never really goes for it. He's not allowed to turn into the menace the plot needs him to be.
@@thebesto7787what doesn't help is that he only has the Symbiote for 3 nights.
Not even a week and they expect his Symbiote arc to feel complete
Overall I had a great time with this game. As a whole I do think I felt more fulfilled with the story of the first game although this game did also have a lot of high points. One issue I was worried would happen and in a way it kind of did, was after Kraven had served his purpose in the story, he was kind of forgotten about and the reason for doing what he did I didn't think was emphasised enough. By the time I finished the story I ended up thinking to myself "Oh yeah, Kraven was in the game". I thought Harry was handled quite well and I enjoyed his friendship with Peter but him as Venom was one aspect I don't think really worked for me to be honest. He felt more like a generic world ending villain. The game's approach of having Harry as the host for the Symbiote as the story progressed didn't really matter as not much about Harry's personality was reflected in Venom which kind of cheapened the character. It would helped make the thread more emotionally impactful if they had kept the stakes low with an emphasis on the personal battle between Venom and Peter. Overall it felt like Venom in name and appearance only. Maybe there's a little bias in me because I'm a huge Eddie Brock and Flash Thomson fan and I love their development in the comics and they will always be my favourite Venom hosts.
I completely agree with you when after playing the game I completely forgot kraven was even a plot point, not that he wasn't done well bc this is definitely one of the best iterations of kraven we've gotten, But the last hour of the game with venom just completely abandons everything and comes out of nowhere, I think they should have definitely kept the stakes low and like you said have it be about the relationship and the downfall of that friendship between Peter and Harry, It would have worked out way better and would have been far more impact full and plus the whole invasion taking overthing suits carnage far more than venom
@@BaretheReaper Imagine the game's story finishing with Kraven but a nice cliffhanger of Harry becoming Venom even though I would just prefer another symbiote on him altogether. No one has really convinced me on why it had to be the venom symbiote outside of brand recognition.
Apparently, we were supposed to get more Life Foundation symbiotes (and Beetle) as bosses before getting cut. I hope they return in DLC or future games.
Beetle is DLC
And Venom is getting a game
So yeah your demands has been fulfilled
"NO JOB NO MORTGAGE NO LIFE NO MONEY NO PARENTS NO AUNT NO UNCLE" -Scream
Using the "molten man looks like an Oscar" joke without playing the clip from Spectacular? For shame...
Shit I forgot
"We finally have Spider-Man 2. Not to be confused with Spider-Man 2 or Spider-Man 2"
😂
Honestly if they wanted to be shocking with Venom's identity, why not go with Michelinie's original plan and make her the woman with the miscarriage?
Oh shoot that sounds like a killer idea for Venom. Can't believe he didn't go through with that....
I think the idea of a female venom would have been interesting but I have close friends that suffered a miscarriage and....I don't think using it for a villain origin would be a good move. Miscarrages are really painful and I feel like using them for villain origin stories is a really cheap and insensitive move. These friends had to stop watching Dr Strange 2 as soon as they realized that the plot was about Wanda trying to get her kids back.
Wait really?
@@galactic85 if you are not willing to touch anything remotely sensitive then your works will have zero impact and will leave people indifferent.
That fear of offending anyone is how we got all these characters that are just nice and have little else to them.
This entire video has been extremely validating as a fan of these characters. Bless.
I 100% agree with your point about Venom. The game’s story fell apart for me as soon as Venom came into play. Really made me want to dig into Venom comics because Eddie is such a well written character.
I loved Miles story but that couldn’t save it for me. I wanted to love the story but it just tripped on the 3rd act before it got to the finish line.
Great analysis dude.
This game was definitely rushed, and while this may be a leap, i think it's due to Sony wanting brand synergy. If you remember this game came out on October 20th, that's the same date that the Kraven movie was originally going to come out. So i think Sony rushed Insomniac to put it out by then so people who played the game, and they wanted more of Kraven they could go and watch the film.
Now that you say it... It makes sense
sony fucking it up for us spider-man fans once again
This game took 5 years to make and it was STILL rushed.
Your Venom analysis explain quite well why we comic fans take issue with character assassinations and mindless alterations in other media representation of comic stories or characters. Gradually, the essence of a good character disappears from public consciousness. Meanwhile, people think its just nerds being nitpicky.
GodzillaMendoza is definitely one of the best internet dudes who talk about Marvel and Spider-Man sometimes. He understands these characters super well, and he actually does his research and all that. He’s not jumping on a bandwagon and trying to make a quick buck, because he actually seems passionate about whatever he talks about. Bro should be a consultant for Marvel or something idk. Also more Dead Space videos please 🙏
This game is a massive mixed bag for me. It does some things right, but also takes a few steps back.
Steps back?
@@dylansharp8471 yes? This is the worst of the 3 games by far
Finally, someone who praises and critiques with intelligence
The biggest problem with Venom imo is that the goo is inherently evil, it doesn't aggravate the emotions of its host, it manipulates them into doing its bidding, gaslighting them to ensure obedience.
That is the exact opposite of Venom in this game. At best, it is a terrible way to interpret his actions.
@@KrypticSpiderMan The symbiote literally made Harry believe that his dead mom was talking to him and how they’ll heal the world together. This was after Venom killed Kraven, which Harry seemed shaken up about, as if he wasn’t entirely in control. Even in the comics, the symbiote made Eddie believe he had cancer and lied to Eddie about his son.
@yungdre4500 so not only did you just equate what the suit does here to the comics.
But the symbiote using his mother to calm him down =/= sinister (and/or intentional) manipulation from the suit.
It can be interpreted as the suit trying to comfort Harry after going on a rampage where the suit wasn't thinking straight (due to rejection from Peter and fear of being removed from Harry).
It's not impossible to see this considering the suit has some empathy towards its host (whether it be the entire 2nd act where it helps Peter in any way it can, or something subtle as tucking him into bed).
There is no concrete reason to believe the suit is "just inherently evil" and, at the most, is a very oversimplifying and rightfully boring interpretation of the Insomniverse Venom.
@@KrypticSpiderMan Fine, fuck the comics, purely from the game’s story: It helps Peter because it wants *Peter* to be its host, not Harry. At every chance it gets it tries to leave Harry and go with Peter, it isn’t until Peter is mortally wounded and Harry doesn’t fight to keep the suit on him does the symbiote finally get to Peter. If it was “sympathetic towards its host”, it would jump off Peter the moment he was fully healed to get back on Harry but it doesn’t. It doesn’t give a shit about Harry, it only got to Harry at the end of the game because while Harry is the only one willing to take it. And then it seduces Harry to take over the world with dead mom monologue, the intention IS to take over the world btw not to “calm him down.”
Even when it took over Peter, it was making him an ass to those closest to him (aka cut off his support system to make Peter more reliant on the suit, narcism 101) and was trying to make him kill Kraven. If the symbiote is “sympathetic to its host”, it should know that Peter doesn’t kill and should respect his wishes. I’ve seen one video where a guy tries to argue that the symbiote is just being influenced by its host emotions as much as the host is being influenced by the symbiote. And while I do agree since thats how its supposed to work in the comics anyway, the second Venom tries to take over the world is when that idea gets thrown out the window.
@yungdre4500 It tries to calm him down by suggesting to "take over the world."
Harry just witnessed himself kill a man. And the suit takes note of this. So it tries to put him at ease by not only using his mother's voice but also giving him what he wants (everyone healed and safe). It's sort of a "We fucked up, let's make it up to him" kinda thing.
The symbiote ditching Harry to Peter doesn't automatically mean it doesn't care about Harry (or Peter to this aspect). The symbiote wanted a more suitable host (cause if you had to pick between a man with cancer compared to Spider-Man, let's be real), and it got it with Peter. But it doesn't show complete apathy towards others now.
SIDE NOTE: The suit making Peter an ass is also supposed to be things Peter might be harboring inside. It also is supposed to serve a practical point, which is to distance his loved, so they are as far away from "the action" as possible. That and also it could be taken as Peter slipping into the drug allegory of being over-reliant on "his drug" and the suit thinking that it's helping him.
The suit is influenced by the host's inner emotions and wants (and vice versa). The suit wanted a stronger host, which in it of itself doesn't equal a lack of care. But Peter really drives it home to not go back to Harry (I NEED this suit. It makes me a better Spider-Man). The suit could also be seen as an impressionable child that takes Harry and Peter's wants to their logical extremes:
Heal the world = Infect people with the "healing agent" and take away their free will
Be a better Spider-Man = Kill criminals to prevent them from coming back and kill people (which is something Peter already feels from the Mr. Negative mission).
Peter's inner hatred and the suit's misinterpreted views of morality are why it wants him to kill (cause "technically" if you kill them, you have saved people in the future = better Spider-Man).
Honestly, this game really just made me love the Spider-Verse films even more for how effortlessly they're able to buck the tropes of Spider-Man adaptations and even blatantly acknowledge that that's what they're doing. The Spot is a villain who thinks that he has some deep, personal connection with Miles only for him to have never even known he existed, which then spawns an even greater threat as he tries to force himself into the center of Miles' story by any means necessary.
I’d say less the symbiote tries to make them villianous, and more the symbiote misunderstands what they truly want.
Thank you for acknowledging Eddie and why he's special as Venom. Too many defenders keep saying Harry's Venom "is new and original", not understanding what made Venom special.
While not even being new and original.
Venom isn't special. 1. Bizaro super man 2. Reverse flash 3. Synestro 4. Nemesis prime The carbon copy of the super hero is a trope as old as the genre itself
@@briandavid7849 I'm saying why I think eddie Brock is special as venom
@@smallfungus2675yeah but it's predictable and would lose its weight also since the general public views him more as a lethal protecteur than villain
I agree. Although say thing that, Flash Thompson made for an interesting host too
The evolved suit feels out of place and is such a weird moment. It's also so vividly different from his other suits people are going to swap it out especially since it's at the end of the game. Hell I don't think it's the worst suit but I hated the colors and tried swapping to it Variant all white color to try and match Pete's anit venom design for the final missions.
At this point i'm terrified of how they will attempt to write the Green Goblin. A character gotten right even less times than Venom, in popular media.
5:35 I actually agree with this it’s kind of weird how they don’t have character models or bios which isn’t bad but it’s something I liked to have especially since it was in the first two games
Man you’re just proving my point in that making Harry the hist for Venom is both bad on paper and execution because ITS LITERALLY JUST GOBLIN STUFF WITH A SYMBIOTE SKIN OVER IT
I genuinely think the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon handled Harry being Venom better, because at least we saw his growing anger over gaining his father's approval which made him take that anger out on Spider-Man who tried to warn him about the symbiote. It literally makes little sense in ISM2 because the only reason he's even against Spider-Man is because of a dumb accident.
Eh, it's not really his Goblin stuff either.
There's no legacy of the father or the struggle to accept and reconcile the shame of being unlike his father with the reality of Norman's cruelty, when it hurts Harry and those he loves.
It looked like they were trying for it with Harry's shame over his fragility and the 'I'm what you wanted me to be', but it's not integrated very well.
@@gota7738 Harry is already literally just going through his TASM 2 story with some bits of other goblin material in there, and Venom doesn’t even start invasions in the comics meanwhile Green Goblin has in fact made a mutant goblin army in the comics to take over the city, that’s literally the whole final arc of Superior Spider-Man
@@SharpestSniper99 The TASM 2 storyline isn't really drawing on the Harry's Goblin storyline either.
The symbiote invasion is pretty blatantly drawing on King in Black, which wasn't Venom's doing but wasn't a Goblin story either.
I'm not saying it's adapting much Venom stuff, but while there's bits that resemble parts of Harry's story it's still a far cry from the source material, even if you took away Venom.
Debatable but it needs stronger development and more of a reason behind it.
In summary: insomniac venom is a half-assed attempt at mixing Harry's usual goblin related conflicts with venom and the insomniac villain formula which results in a character that so unnecessary, the story would actually benefit from his removal. Not joking. You remove him, the game then turns into a dope kraven's last hunt adaptation with some cool side stories including some returning faces and a possible new villain. Think about it.
I agree. I think they could have mixed the Kraven's Last Hunt with the black suit arc and just saved Venom to be the focus of the next game, and this game would have been all the better for it. As is it just runs into the Spider-Man 3 problem where Venom's just a shallow monster shoved into the final act.
@@Andyjoe522 true
Thank you for this. It’s nice to see someone articulate exactly my problems with how Venom was handled in this game. Ever since this game came out it’s baffled me why they did what they did with him. Every other character in Insomniac’s universe is pretty much the same as their comic counterpart, or they’re still faithful enough to it that they’re recognizable. Why they decided that Venom of all characters, the one Spiderman supporting character who is so beloved that he’s developed his own fanbase independent of spidey, needed to be the only one they radically change is so confusing.
I actually like Tiana Toomes and her dynamic with Miles. The Katie Bishop of the Ultimate universe had a nice design and while the Hydra reveal was a surprise it had potential to more but sadly Bendis didn’t focus on it enough. I do like Hailey Cooper though especially the mission in Miles solo game where she gives him her scarf 🧣
That infamous joke was such a bar I didn’t even laugh just respected it fully 😂😭
I do actually wanna see some Obsecure Spidey villains in Spider-Man 3 since only a few are in adaptations. The Spot excluded since it’ll confuse the fandom. Overdrive would be a good boss fight yes. But I also wanna see Piper Dali aka Paper Doll the villain who stalks a celebrity with the ability of turning flat like Paper. It’ll be some good content. Oh and uh, Morbius yeah. Whatever
The one thing about Venom I absolutely loved in this game was Tony Todd’s performance, it was top notch!
I feel like the venom stuff would be better if they focused on his hatred and revenge against kraven
Thank you for understanding what makes comic books and the writers great.
WHAT ABOUT MILE'S COLLEGE ESSAY! UNRESOLVED PLOT!!!
Miles was too busy becoming Adidas Man
@@LeonardoSilva-xm8ft😎 👉👉🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
One thing that irked me in this game was when Venom became like a hulking brute after bonding with Harry for a second time.
It basically is a goo skinsuit that happens to be alive. The only reason why Venom in the comics looked like a brute was because Eddie just did body building to the point he attained a near-perfect physical appearance and the symbiote bonded to his skin.
For anyone that bashes on the Hardy version of Venom for making Brock look like a brute without the body building should realize that Venom also made Weying look like a brute or Riot making Drake look like a brute, signifying that the symbiote isn't a skinsuit.
Marvel's Spider-Man 2 could've easily the best Spidey game ever. But there's far too many flaws. Traversal is a step up from the 1st game. As well as most of the combat IMO. But there's issues with the Symbiote Peter combat.
1st, the black suit gameplay wasn't developed enough. Don't use your symbiote abilities or the symbiote surge, what are you left with? The same combat & finishers as the 1st game. His combat outside the symbiote tendrils & symbiote blast hasn't gotten more aggressive. Web of Shadows understood how to make the gameplay distinct depending on which suit you chose to fight in. In Marvel's Spider-Man 2, you can't lash out a tendril to grab an enemy, bring em towards you, choke that enemy & send him or her flying. You can't skateboard on enemies. You can't grab an enemie's head & bash it against your knee. You can't grab an enemy's head & bash it against the side of a vehicle violently & fast. His punches aren't more violent & reckless. Something minor but that I would like to point out is that a change in symbiote Peter's stance animation would've been neat, & would've helped to make regular Peter different from Symbiote Peter.
Something that should've been added to gameplay is a long distance swing punch, like in the opening of Web of Shadows. I'll explain. Let's say there's a crime that spawned while you're swinging. You see a group of baddies in front of you, but at a lengthy distance. So when you're swinging, & get close enough, that swing can immediately transition into a seemless long distance swing punch. And to time it right, you gotta hold the swing button, & as soon as you're close to an enemy you want to take care of first, you click square. And to make it unique for Symbiote Peter, have it function the same. But instead of a seemless swing punch, it's a seemless & aggressive swing kick that instantly takes down a group of enemies & sends them flying.
Another complaint, why do Peter & Miles share the exact same aggressive charge jump animation? That aggressive charge jump animation should be exclusive for black suit Peter. Red suit Peter should have the same charge up animation he did in the first game. And Miles should have the same charge jump animation he had in his own game. That way they feel more unique from each other. Something that's missing & would enhance gameplay even more is being able to immediately start swinging when you're running on the ground. Like in the bridge scene in Spider-Man Far From Home. This could function on the ground, on the side of a wall or building like in the parade scene of Spider-Man (2002) & on rooftops, as long as you're within range of another building. And to make this feature slightly unique for Symbiote Peter, he uses his fists to shoot the webs & doesn't make the thwipp hand gestures.
Onto story complaints. No reasonable person would cut out 90% of Venom's dialogue & put in multiple MJ missions. Venom really needed more screen time. Another thing, there's lots of walk & talk segments in this game. Something that should've avoided. Another complaint, Kraven barely gets any screen time. You see more of his goons doing his dirty work for him than him actually hunting. Also, there wasn't nearly enough of Bully Lowenthal in the story. Another problem with this game, some of the dialogue. More specifically in the Scream boss fight. That was not well written boss fight dialogue. And there's no need to introduce yet another spider person. Let's not forget that Peter decides to take a break from being Spider-Man to become a climate activist. Which is stupid considering how they set up Goblin, Doc Ock's return, Carnage & chameleon for Marvel's Spider-Man 3. Obviously Peter wouldn't be foolish enough to ignore all those threats. If anything, it would've made more sense if he decided to retire in the ending of Marvel's Spider-Man 3.
The way Insomniac decided to treat the symbiote infestation taking over NYC is baffling. Wasn't taken nearly as seriously as it should've. Why is Miles out here asking Hailey out on a date during the worst possible time, is he stupid? Also, why would a spray can affect a Symbiote? There's no military, no other superheroes, no evacuations, you don't go inside buildings helping people escape from the symbiotes. There's no REAL sense of dread. There's no sense that this could very well be the end of New York. You know that the Spideys will save the day, it's too predictable. Also, it wouldve been nice to see more of Harry. Maybe have the player play as him to fight Kraven when Harry got furious because Kraven stabbed Peter. Now onto more side missions & crimes specific complaints. First off, why put a playable Haily mission? It's a waste of time that could've easily been used for something that's actually good. We didn't need the homecoming mission or the blind lady getting a robot dog or whatever. Super unnecessary. The E.M.F. missions are alright I guess, considering how Peter is into science & wants to help people.
I absolutely disliked how they dumbed down the car chases in this game. They got insanely repetitive in the first game, but at least YOU were the one taking out the criminals out of the car & slowing it down. Now, it just takes a single button press then it's over. No thought put into it. Here's an easy fix. Have Peter shoot web balls at the criminals while swinging with one hand. Like in Spider-Man 2 the movie. Then he can either stop the like he always does in the first game, or web up the wheels to slow it down. To make it different for Miles, have him use his stealth to his advantage. Have Miles shoot 2 webs to pull himself towards the car, land on it, use his electric powers to zap the engine & basically force the car to stop.
Now onto the traversal & other quality of life changes this game desperately needed. I'm glad Insomniac Games has added satisfying gameplay features for Marvel's Spider-Man 2. But we needed way more. Running/sliding along the ground while holding onto a web line, shoot web balls on one hand while swinging from the other, shooting webs while falling without loosing momentum, run on the side of building without letting go of your webline, climbing your own web, hanging criminals on light posts, faster running, grinding, running down buildings, sliding down buildings, overhauled wall crawling system, 2 arm web swinging like in Spider-Man 2 (2004), temporarily skim the water while holding your web line like in infinity war, latch onto a boat with a web, seamlessly transition from surfing on a boat to parkouring onto another boat, a giant web that can catch speeding cars, swinging off of helicopters, free roam in liberty island, & a new gun disarm animation that doesn't have Spidey spin around like crazy. Something that would be a neat addition is if you swing really fast when you're too close to pedestrians, Peter will say something like “coming through" or even “Hello pedestrians!". Or he can even high five pedestrians with one hand while he's swinging from the other. Also, it would be nice to seemlessly be able to dodge lamp posts, trucks & tight spaces between buildings while swinging, like in Across The Spider-Verse when Miles is swinging with Gwen. Also, it's disappointing to that webs sometimes STILL go through buildings. And the game STILL forces you to let go of the swing button. You don't decide when the best time to let go is, the game decides for you.
Just realized I haven't even begun to go over the issues with suits in this game. First off, why can't all the MCU Spider-Man suits take up just 1 suit slot instead of multiple? Same thing for the live action suits to be honest. They should be in their respective category. Put the Tobey suits in 1 slot, the Andrew suits in slot & so on & so forth. Another complaint with live action suits, there's not enough of them for Peter. There's no I.T.S.V. suit for Peter that isn't the noir suit, there's no human spider, there's no vigilante suit from TASM 1, there's no The Spectacular Spider-Man suit (he appeared briefly in A.T.S.V., so it can kind of count as a live action suit.) Not to mention, we're seriously missing more comics & animated series suits. For example, Spider-Man TAS (black suit included), The Spectacular Spider-Man (all black suits included), Spider-Man TNAS 2003, Ultimate Spider-Man show, Todd McFarlane (black suit included), Alex Ross, John Romita (black suit included), Amazing fantasy suit, & a few other suits from the first game should've definitely been in this game. Also, why take away the suit powers from the first game? Some of them were really cool. Now, the only reason you would want to unlock suits in Marvel's Spider-Man 2 is for the looks. There's no other reason behind it, which isn't that big of a deal but still. Something that should've been added for suits in this game is the ability to change web sound effects as well as how they look, depending on the suit chosen. For example, if you the spectacular Spider-Man suits, you get the sound effects & look from that show. Same thing goes for live action suits & animated suits. This would keep gameplay way more fresh.
Now, onto gadgets. I still can't understand why Insomniac took away the gadgets from the first game. Most of them were so satisfying to use. They should've brought them back & keep the new ones. That way the players choose what gadgets they want to use at a time. A gadget I would've loved to see is a giant web net that can catch criminals or speeding cars. Like in the TASM 1 game. Overall, this game's a 6/10. It's no flawless masterpiece.
I agree with you 1000%. It’s insane how people failed to see these flaws in the game. I expect the combat to be different when Peter got the suit, I expect there to be more brutal symbiote takedown and silent takedown, I expect for symbiote Peter to fight against old villians from the previous game but nope they unnecessarily killed them, I expect no mj missions but nah the director literally said “he doesn’t care what other thinks about the mj mission”, I expect Kraven to go hunt by himself instead of using his minions most of the time, I expect venom to have more screen time but nope and I also expect amazing suits from the comics to be in the game but nope for some reason. The side missions have so much potential to be amazing just like the Arkham games and the Witcher game. I also agree with you with the car takedown being repitive like Brooo. Idk why they take away the suits mods, it’s fun and it also make the suit unique to others.
@@lordyoda9382 I'm glad you too see it's flaws. That long comment is not because I hate the game, it's because I know Insomniac could've been greater. But Sony just had to push them to get that deadline. And the quality suffered because of it. But it's okay, not everything works out.
@@danielmontero8200 Yeah, I also like the game but also sees that it could do way better. I just hope next time it won’t happen again. I really want the next game to be the greatest Spider-Man game of all time, for that to happen they gotta have the mindset of a huge Spider-Man fan and think about what do Spider-Man fans want in the game.
@@lordyoda9382 I too would want a amazing & nearly flawless Marvel's Spider-Man 3. But with the failures of Marvel's Spider-Man 2, I don't think that's possible.
@@danielmontero8200 Yeah, I can see that.
0:34 Yeah, as soon as I saw this color variant in the game I pretty much thought, "Xavier must finally be real happy now."
First thing I thought of as well lol
THANK YOU FOR MENTIONING TO CREDIT CATES AND STEGMAN. THANK YOU.
Kraven could've been DLC so they can focus fully on venom. maybe even make carnage the main villain at the end of the game instead of this web of shadows scenario.
With this you can make venom go from a villain to an ally and have him face carnage or smth.
So then there could be an adaptation of last hunt. I see what you’re saying