Softube Model 72 vs Minimoog vs Synapse Legend: A Review and demo of Softube Model 72
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
- #Softube #Model72 #Minimog #Legend #comparison
Hurray... another copyright claim on a filter sweep!! during an in depth walkthrough and review of Softube's excellent Model 72 Minimoog soft synth, FX and Modular System.
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0:00 intro
1:28 overview
6:56 oscillators
14:55 Filters
19:13 FM
25:35 overdrive
30:00 final thoughts - Фільми й анімація
For anyone watching closely enough ... holding CMD and turning the knobs allows for fine control on the Model 72 (on the Mac that is, it may be a different key for the PC). Unfortunately I hadn't found this when recording the video so thanks to @AceGarpTruckingCo for pointing this out.
On filter sweeps: Midi CC (i.e. a physical controller) has a resolution of 128 steps total, so much worse than mouse + Cmd/Ctrl (1000 steps) and even worse than mouse only (200 steps) on the Model 72. The Legend seems to go by Hz-steps which is much more precise but non-linear as you progress upward. I think that is a significant drawback in the Model 72, although I love to use it myself... ;-)
My wife said ‘Oh someone else does the same repetitive weird things with their synths.’ 🤣
Weird!..... WEIRD...??? What’s she talking about 😂
@@StarskyCarr Womans really love such weird sounds, after the listening these sounds they want to scream :D :D
Another fantastic video Starsky - Thank you! The double effect on the Softube reminds me that Moog custom built a 6 oscillator Moog for the bass in Whip It (I think I have this story correct). It's great what we can get in software now on a budget! Really enjoy the balance you find between the theoretical and practical differences in your comparisons. Cheers!
Really thoughtfully done as always ... nice balance of enthusiasm, musicality and properly earnest geekery!
The Softtube is a little grimier, and the Legend is a bit cleaner and more flexible, but I don't think anyone would notice in a mix. I think it's fair to say that the Moog sound has finally been nailed between these two plugins.
Your plugin-reviews are the best. By far! Absolutely amazing work.
High praise indeed! cheers.
Wow! Nice review and nice sound comparison! Thanks a lot :)
OMG your attention to detail is amazing, systematic and logical in your approach - another fantastic video!
Awesome content as usual. Keep up good work mate, greatly appreciated!!!
Your site is excellent. I was looking for a moog emulation and this is really the only site I needed to visit. So you have a new fan!👍👍. Many thanks
the legend is polyphonic. that nails it to me in terms of importance...
Fantatstic video comparison proper geeked out on this one . Did you know the Legend has a realistic noise floor emulation aswell, really nice detail imo.
Thanks for another great review! ❤
Great channel, Starsky!
Thank you, very nice video as usual. Take care :)
Excellent video. You're doing a great service for the muso community with these sorts of reviews. If you haven't yet done it, I'd love to see some comparisons between Korg's synth plugins and their hardware counterparts. I have the odyssey iPad app, and think it sounds impressive. I've never played a real one though.
I’ve done the arp app vs odyssey. :) the link will be on my channel homepage in the software playlist.
Great idea to compare Hardware vs Software!
Maybe with the Behringer to get closer in term of price comparaison.
Depth Charge were a wicked group btw, pretty much ahead of the curve with the Trip Hop/Big Beat sound.
Just one guy, but yes 👍
On point quality content thanks a lot!
Thanks.
great video...already have the UAD minimoog which is incredible
Thank you for the updated detailed comparison but what I took from this video was, if you really REALLY want to sound exactly like a moog, buy a moog! For me though, close is good enough.
nice to see your face, you have a very soothing voice
Super tutorial, Thanks 🙏
"Hurray... another copyright claim on a filter sweep!!" rofl...nice vid again btw^^
A classic Starsky competition :D Thanks for that! I got a Boog Model D and The Legend. So I think I pass softube this time. I like the stereo spread function of the emulation. But the interface text is too small (I´m getting old), I´m missing the option of polyphony and the Boog does the overdrive thing much better than both of the emulations.
How do you find behringer compared to the legend for bass,, punchy sounds?
@@stergiost.6246 I don´t think there is much difference. Both have snappy envelopes and with a little finetuning you achieve very similar results. Of coures you can´t save your patches / presets on the boog.
Another great video. Who else thinks the Behringer is so close it hardly matters.
I've had the Legend for a couple of years now. From your demo the Softube has the better modelling for resonance which I think sounds more silky and very rich at high resonance. The Legend is very nice but can be a bit clinical. The Legend's feedback works best with the Band Pass Filter and resonance.
Just discovered - Great work mate. I make info vids too and that's a lot of work you're putting in there. Re-living my past buying the software synths from my 20's (including the old pro one in the background!) and you provide a detailed and honest review. I do keep thinking you'd love reaper with CSI to run your synths so you wouldn't miss the physical element - it's the thing that brought me back to enjoying all this gear. We're of similar era and location by the accent, always happy to be given the score with a scouse twang ;) Have you tried any of the cherry audio synths?
Of course you have! Just looked further - many thanks
a great comparison!
Great video, as usual. Have you tried G-Force Minimonsta 2? The reason I say this is that you mention The Legend and Model 72 still don't have the drive part right.. I noticed the Minimonsta 2 goes a bit nuts if you go past the 2 o'clock position. Let me know your thoughts.
Cheers 😉
Thanks for these in-depth comparisons. I thought the Model 72 was going to hit the top spot with the overdrive but still not quite there, seems to be a difficult part to model accurately.
very usefull, as always. ty
Man you are a saint 🙌
The Reason Rack extension version of Legend (which I have) actually have 8 CV inputs and 4 stereo pairs of audio in.
Thanks for the info. I've not used the Reason Rack for years, so good to know.
@@StarskyCarr Have a look at reason again, reason rack as a vst is awesome!
20:59 If you flip to the edit side of Legend, under the Modulation section you can increase the pitch and cutoff range. I ran into the same problem when i compared it to The model 72. If you max the ranges out, they are pretty similar.
Q
The benefit of Synapse is that you can do polyphonic with standalone plugin, whilst with the Softube Model72 I think you can do poly only with the Modular modules of Model72 (standalone is mono only).
Yeah thanks, I forgot to mention that when running through the differences at the end.
thank you, great review as usual. About the overdrive issue, by what you demostrated it should be possible to achieve a proper overdrive result by applying the amp room moogerfooger filter effect on output coming from the model 72...of course the signal path is different and results will not be exactly the same, but i still think it's a good result. what's your opinion about it?
Hey man! Love your videos for years now. Basically re-watching this for some reason :-)
What captured my attention "Filtersweeps-Hard to do with a mouse-Better on a keyboard" ... makes me wonder. Why did you not use a Good encoder on some of your midi controller keyboards instead of your mouse? Genuine curiosity speaking here
I can’t remember tbh… but I often found that some encoders don’t work well with software. I can remember having trouble getting the resolution high enough on many. And it depends how it sends the info NRPN or CC. One particular occasion (and it could have been this - especially as some worked with one option not another etc) I spent ages trying to figure it out - but couldn’t get to the bottom of it and didn’t want to mislead about any synth or controller in particular. - it could well have been something I was doing. It took far too long to figure out and I made a decision on these to use them as is - and demo the product not auxiliary kit as well. Keeps things more manageable, plus others may find similar so yeah easier on a hardware synth.
@@StarskyCarr ok put like that it makes sense. I am really impressed that the translation of software is still so unrefined in some cases. I love software and its posibillitites but simply cant understand why resolution on encoders is such a hard nut to crack and what I also hate is the volume scaling of any bluetooth volume control. It's always like " Level 1 is too quiet, 2 is too loud and there is nothing in between" . Go figure
That stepped sweeping issue was interesting.
I've just discovered you can hold CMD to get it smoother. Really annoyed I hadn't found this for the vid... but its not as easy to use on the fly if you're playing the synth at the same time. Which lets face it most won't use the plugin like that.
Hi Carr,
When you do a filter sweep, please assign it to a knob on midi controller to the sweep move will be as smooth as moving knob on hardware synth. Excellent video, first time run on your channel and for sure I'm going to stay. Best regards from Poland
Thanks… I tried various hardware co trollers, but if only 0-127 or 8 bit co troll 0-255 you still get the steps. I couldn’t find one here that was smooth. You can hold control and use the mouse for smoother sweeps (I think it’s control).
@@StarskyCarr Is there a HW controller that works with more then 128 steps?
@@bvmproductiesbe I don't know sorry... I've not spent much time looking tbh as its not that important to me - if sweeping the filter in a track the soft synths are smooth when automating. I mention the stepping in case it's important for people, so they can consider it when purchasing. I don't record softsynths 'live' like I sometimes do with hardware which is why for me it's not an issue.
What software emulation of the Minimoog gives us a stepless semitones modulation of the oscillators? I have the arturia one and I think it goes from 0 to +1 and +2 and so on in steps (nothing in between) while I found it the strengt of the minimoog to do it stepless (yes I know there will be digital 127 steps). Edit: both of them are ok as I saw in the video (I was not there yet while writing this Q). Thanks!
It looks like you have compared the Overdrive with the wrong waveform un the Softube. The original had a sawtooth and the Softube had a square. Would be nice to have this comparison again with matching waveforms. But overall thank you for this great compatison.
yup wrong waveform
Interesting tidbit: I had been trying to recreate a minimoog patch I heard in a video, and The Legend was unable to recreate the filter FM behaviour in the sound, whereas other vst's like Minimonsta could. I've had odd results when doing FM with Legend, other plugs seem fine. Maybe it's the revision switch?
The legend has a little bit less modulation available so if the patches have the mod wheel on 100% the Legend can’t quite get there. Probably more to do with the synth they modelled as it’s not much more play in the wheel, but definitely noticeable.
I want someone to take two real minimoogs and compare the to each other and vst's, because I wonder if two real minimoogs sound the same
I know this is an older comment but I was just thinking that as I watch this. Even if they are in perfect condition, no two continuous analog signals generated by discreet circuitry will sound exactly the same. You could swap this Model D out with another one made the same year in the same factory with the same components and there will still be ever so subtle nuances that make them different. But I'm sure Starky and everyone else in the analog cork-sniffing community knows that.
Veeeery Nice ! Any SIMMONS SDS-5 Clones out there? :)
At 18:30 I think you can hold down SHIFT or CMD or some modifier key or other to go in 0.01 steps which would get it smoother. I made an automation ramp in Logic and it was fine/smooth etc
Yeah I couldn’t find anything.. I looked in the manual but didn’t see any fine control commands.
Still difficult to do in a track pad. The Arturia does this.
@@StarskyCarr Yeah some of the Softube manuals can be great but they don't seem to see regular updates so when stuff gets missed you just kind of have to know from the other plugins :(
What I wouldn't give for the Arturia interface on the Softube sound. I wouldn't use the Arturia so much because I never liked the sound, but the 72 has replaced my Boog for all practical uses.
@@StarskyCarr Just tried it and it's CMD on a Mac which I guess would mean it's CTRL on Windows. But even that's no good because then you have to drag further than the screen allows sometimes to get it to 0 for a full sweep...
Great review. Thank you. I used to love the Chem Bros but really? A copyright claim for a filter sweep? Not a joke? Beyond the pale.
I know that is disgraceful. Must be hard up or something or just a nasty bunch.
Madness... I know its the 'bots' but it keeps on happening. They responded pretty quickly as it blew up on their forums :)
Sound awesome! Where is it comparing to Arturia and Monark? Do I need Softtube one (besides just collecting any moogmini)?
The square is more flutey def.! It sounds with a very different timbre.
@5:29 Sound of The Prodigy
This is the boss. I love the Minimonsta but the GUI is a bit gooey. I feel the same way about the Mini V. Even The Legend has a too large interface. Not sure why it’s been so tricky to nail the look of the Mini but Softube have smashed it. And it sounds just amazing. It ‘feels’ like an instrument. Now if they would add polyphony (Monsta and MiniV both have it, so why not this), the others will have to play catch-up.
you can do in Modular
Here i am again cause i remembered something i been meaning to ask you. I would be very curious on a review of the Miniverse by Cherry Audio.
I find it amazing sounding but would also like the opinion of higher level geekery experts like only you can do
Imo, the overload section in UAD Minimoog is very similar to the real deal. Have you check it out?
I feel like Model 72 always sound very gritty and over-driven, like the Model D was really old and in need of service, whereas The Legend is a bit more clean and smooth which I prefer in a modern context.
I see a Pro One in the backround. Whats your opinion on the type of music its good for compared to a minimoog. Would you say its good for that west coast funk sound?
It's hard to say tbh. I would go with Minimog for funk, and pro-one for electro, but that's just how I see them used. They're pretty much interchangeable tbh. You can definitely do west coast funk on a Pro-One and electro on a Minimoog. The Pro-One is a single voice of a Prophet 5 (with a bit more drive) so can go anywhere that the Prophet can go on a lead sound.
Whew trying to decide between The Legend and Boog Poly D...
Where do you want emphasis, on easy to use, recall ability / physical controls, no presets, tied to record audio. Soundwise analog has slight edge but with tradeoff in workflow, as legend you could have whole project filled with legends simultaneously, with tad inferior sound.
How's the modulation wheel? With the Moog you have the typical recognizable curve of the LFO with the vibrato. With the Moog hardware you hear logarithmic curve with the vibrato. It makes the sound typically MOOG recognizable. With the Arturia V3, the vibrato curve seems to be more linear than with the hardware MOOG. If you set the vibrato to slow, the difference is clearly audible. Consider it a very important MOOG feature. How about the new soft synths like THE LEGEND and Model 72? How do they handle this?
have just downloaded The Legend. It does a fantastic job: exactly the typical recognizable Moog characteristic
I had to put a thumbs up, I doubt anyone wants their videos with a 666 'like' Great video
Synapse Audio didn't update TL since a long... that would be nice!
just recently i saw them posting (i think it was on kvr or gearslutz) that they have a big upgrade coming for TL.
its so pityful to see that you get copyright claims on filter sweeps.. chemical brothers again ? did you got the first claim sorted ? ps. great vid!
Thanks, yeah the first one was sorted almost immediately by then. This one is by someone I’ve never heard of. I uploaded it 3 times with different settings and recordings, but got zapped every time!
@@StarskyCarr bummer. sorry to hear. hope it can be sorted by youtube if you cant get hold of them.. im all for respecting copyright where its due, but this is just a joke and isnt how its intended to work
@@StarskyCarr ps. ahaha got to the part where you refer to it in the vid. very funny take on the copyright situation. best comparison vid ever. has all. charismatic and very well structured and detailed.
haha, my friend Jörg Schaaf from Radikal Technologies had the same troubles with the damn CB filter sweep recently ;)
Copyright issues for a filter sweep? How is that? The Chemicals kind of stole ‘hey boy, hey girl’ from Lords of acid ‘I sit on acid’. When they were confronted with it they replied: ‘everyone listens to each other’s music’ which is true. They didn’t mention anything about filter sweeps though! I think they bought have tiny penisses.
Well done, thanks ! so joke about copyrights ahaha
I own both and for some reason Model 72 seems to have more mojo than the Legend~ Not sure why~ I guess mojo isn't something you can measure mathematically~^^
The legend skin is really uninspiring that's why, but I tested and actually Monark sounds closer, but model 72 is really nice, that ugly keyboard can be hidden in settings so you can have it looking like a cool desktop synth.
@@tutoriais5266 Thanks for the tipp on skins. I didn't like it at all,now I might get it!
@@JohnDeCarteretElvis checkout mini V3 it has amazing presets. I think model 72 looks more inspiring removing the stupid little keyboard. But mini V3 has way better presets and they are a lot, all sounding rich and analog.
I have the Model 72, having a minimoog in Modular makes it an instant buy for me, intro price + voucher makes it $72. I do hope it's polyphonic, then again I can use it in the Modular anyway...
Any chance to get the voucher?
How to get voucher?
The overdrive of the Minimoog reissue is not setup in the same way as been used in the Model 72.
From the Reissue User manual:
"If no cable is connected to the EXT. INPUT SIGNAL jack, the main audio output of the Minimoog Model D is attenuated slightly and then normalled to the External Input signal path"
From the Model 72 User Manual:
"on the Model 72 Instrument version, this knob will control the volume of the feedback signal emulating a cable connected between hi gain output of the hardware and external audio input."
Yeah, but its essentially the same thing - the main output routed back to the external input. The hi output is just the main out designed for mixing desks, the low out is the main output with a lower level suitable for guitar amps. So both the hardware and Model 72 are routing the main signal back into the external input. one is slightly attenuated - ie turned down a little, so you’d expect a difference in knob position (which I expect in pretty much every parameter tbh) but not sure why they all have such a different tone.
@@StarskyCarr the waveform is a sawtooth on the moog and square on the model 72 so that also may account for some of the difference.
@@killiun55 yeah I realised after, but the differences were so huge it didn't really make any difference to the outcome. If they were closer it would be worth investigating further, but nothing comes close to the hardware here.
That's just insane a copy right strike on what really is just a noise
Damn that softube GUI looks awesome
I think model 72 will have better precision with mouse if you hold down ctrl while tweaking the filters
Can anyone confirm?
@@mybiggrin yes.
@@killiun55 Yeah, I bought it during the sale with my fingers crossed, and it works!
Cherry audio has model modules called "vintage oscillator" and to my ears it sounds better than the legend, especially the filter
It may sound subjectively better. But the Legend is closer to the original model D.
Cherry audio is amazing. I'm still a bit torn whether Modular might have better "overall" sound (some modules for Cherry sound better than others), but I don't think I can exchange the workflow of Cherry, that's where Cherry shines.
@@Elmex_1 I use both and sometime's I'll get fancy with the legend re for reason since it has cv inputs
The only thing Softube Modular and Model 72 does not do to please me is a blow job. But after seeing how ST reconstructed these analogs into code I'm very sure that this functionality will come up soon.
I have The Legend, only problem I have with it is it does not play well with my Mac Magic Mouse. The legend seems to sensitive to the mouses functions for example trying to scroll thru presets with the mouse and The legend will rapidly fly thru 20-30 presets in a instant.
Interesting, perhaps that's how they got the filter sweep so smooth!
Cherry Audio Minimode ....when is the shoot out to the Model 72..............................thanks
cherry audio....🤣
No cash? Nanoog - Japanese vst - its v good and free.
At the end of day, we are all being sold a promise, with no way to verify claims aside from forming a subjective opinion of 'yeah that's close enough to my ears'. It's a dangerous rabbit hole of contention and uncertainty. The very first paid VST in 2000 was a Minimoog emulation and it cost $200. People were fine with it at the time, but now it's somehow not good enough. Monark was fine in 2013 but now it's somehow not good enough. Eventually it'll be 2026 and Legend won't be good enough. The new buzzword will be 'circuit modelled', and anything less than u-he Repro's standard of accuracy won't be acceptable.
I say, just make the music you want to make and choose instruments that has the sound you want and resonate with, regardless of whether its accurate or not. I still vibe with inaccurate plugins like Pro-52 and the older Korg MS-20 plugin, and I know they have their own sound and aren't accurate, but every clone is gonna have at least some of its own DNA in there anyway. Not to mention that no two Minimoog's will sound exactly the same.
Yep… I can’t squeeze all that I tj a single video - which is why I have demos of the same brand new synth side by side showing differences.. demos of different Minimoog emulations together as well as similar with other synths and emulations. From Roland’s ACB to Zenology, softube to Brainworx everyone has their own system. We just don’t want to have the marketing wool pulled over our eyes. If they say they’re an accurate emulation - are they. If I can help give some guidance or art least demo what I have hopefully people can make up their own minds as ti enter it’s close enough… got a useful character or even an interesting GUI or esoteric synth engine helping inspire or to approach from new perspectives
Well that’s the crux isn’t it… analog modeling has promised the same thing on the tin for 2 decades. The target has been standing still for more like 4. And yet it’s pretty clear that there are still some major inaccuracies especially with filter resonance. It doesn’t seem like a whole lot has moved forward in the last 5 years and it raises the question for me, have we exhausted our current tech for modeling analog circuits in a way that can actually run in real time? What’s the next great leap going to be?
soft tube is not polyphonic though...great comparison and video! Thanks a lot for doing this
The big thing with the Softube is adding it to their modular. Great fun.
I still didn't get it. Softube Model 72 is worse? Rob Papen BIT I liked it)
legend wins here ez pz
Holy shit this man has a face! Wife in makeup duty I guess.
Haha it’s wonderful what a cheap camera and bad lighting can do for you!!
I do not like the soft tube filter. The resonance is not musical at all. I have never played a real mini Moog but I’ve never heard it sounding like that.
You should really make up for the differences in parameter ranges. There's much less resonance on your hardware Minimoog than on the Model 72 at the same setting. It should be fine tuned so that the resonance matches better. There's differences like that with different hardware models as well, and you got to make up for it, when you want to compare.
I don’t look at the settings, just listen to the tones and get them as close as I can. In other words I’m doing what you suggest. To do it the other way makes no sense. You’ll see when I’m demoing the FM I keep the Softube at 92% to equate to full mod in the hardware. The hardware is set around 90% to match the Legend.
@@StarskyCarr Hmmm.... there's a lot more resonance on the Model 72 with your settings in the video though. The Legend is closer to the hardware with the settings you applied in the video. I think needs a bit more fine tuning.
Don't get me wrong, I'm really grateful for these vids, it's just that it's hard to compare the synths when the settings don't match well.
@@chakko007 It's really difficult to get them absolutely perfect as the Model 72 steps, and tiny changes can make big differences. I don't think they're that far out though once I've tuned them.. once you've played and wiggled them both for a while you tend to get a feel for if they're similar.
Just took another listen and it could be closer!! I’d tried a few times to get the filter sweep as smooth as possible so wasn’t listening to the resonance at that point. Likely I’ve gone back and forth with a few recordings and not noticed I’d knocked the reso on the Minimoog. Aargh.. VERY annoying.
@@StarskyCarr No worries. I almost feel bad now that I mentioned it, because I know how tedious it is do make such videos and comparisons. :)
Model 72's Filter sounds sto steppy... like not an analog sweep. Very digital sounding
If you hold control it’s smooth - I couldn’t find the right key when I made the video.
Minimoog still wins
включи русские субтитры пожалуйста!!!
Thank you!