How To Easily Make Roman & Medieval Throwing Spears More Effective

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  • Опубліковано 20 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 567

  • @collegeoffoliage6776
    @collegeoffoliage6776 4 роки тому +690

    "I like a smooth shaft... But if you want maximum penetration, you need a bit more friction, to get a good grip..." Mat Easton, you are a legend amongst family friendly UA-camrs.

    • @randomicus4782
      @randomicus4782 4 роки тому +26

      maximum cringe, but i couldnt help laugh. do you think he does it on purpose :)

    • @dorfrez
      @dorfrez 4 роки тому +22

      Then he mentions some have more sticky hands than others

    • @Ssatkan
      @Ssatkan 4 роки тому +36

      @@randomicus4782 I think he didn't initially, but he leaned into it after reading the comments. He's definitely aware of it now, he developed a certain smirk for situations like these.

    • @steveholmes11
      @steveholmes11 4 роки тому +3

      You could see Matt struggling, but at 01:20 the spirit of Kenneth Williams escapes.

    • @Jandau85
      @Jandau85 4 роки тому +17

      Schola Gladiatoria - Come for information on historical weapons, stay for the unceasing sexual innuendo.

  • @geniuslike4399
    @geniuslike4399 4 роки тому +290

    "I like a smooth shaft... But if you want maximum penetration, you need a bit more friction"
    That shiny head must give magical powers bc no man could deliver that line with a straight face
    that being said, great video, Mat

    • @LamgiMari
      @LamgiMari 4 роки тому +14

      Matt has been practising his delivery, in almost every video.

    • @604116
      @604116 4 роки тому +15

      You're saying proper delivery of a smooth shaft and maximum penetration requires a shiny head?

    • @jR-nc1uz
      @jR-nc1uz 4 роки тому

      I think it's an english thing

    • @JulianWeaver
      @JulianWeaver 4 роки тому

      Yes to everything you just said

    • @h4wk5t4r
      @h4wk5t4r 4 роки тому +1

      I'm literally in stiches laughing at this line!

  • @ethankendall9499
    @ethankendall9499 4 роки тому +271

    The innuendoes are strong with this one.

    • @stevencooper4422
      @stevencooper4422 4 роки тому +6

      He's "been throwing this quite a lot"

    • @dylanperkins7939
      @dylanperkins7939 4 роки тому +1

      Better to be rough on that shaft.

    • @tomf4889
      @tomf4889 4 роки тому +1

      “Innuendo” >snort

    • @JulianWeaver
      @JulianWeaver 4 роки тому +6

      My 13-year-old self was thoroughly delighted by this video

    • @TotalRookie_LV
      @TotalRookie_LV 4 роки тому +1

      I imagine someone taking the sound from this video and coupling it up with a completely different video footage.

  • @alanbateman8703
    @alanbateman8703 4 роки тому +213

    Matt, you're quite correct. A smooth shaft is great for people who get their hands on their tools regularly, but some need extra friction to make the best use of their weapon

    • @HughStLeger
      @HughStLeger 4 роки тому +14

      You need a bit more friction for maximum penetration

    • @alanbateman8703
      @alanbateman8703 4 роки тому +10

      And ultimately, penetration is what really matters

    • @emeralddragongaming2930
      @emeralddragongaming2930 4 роки тому +3

      Roman soldiers physical training would be something like "one swing with a sword, ten swings with a shovel " they were quite fit and hardworking all the time actually

    • @TotalRookie_LV
      @TotalRookie_LV 4 роки тому +2

      "..I'd be very interested in your commentaries under this video..."
      Well, here they are!

    • @mikesummers-smith4091
      @mikesummers-smith4091 4 роки тому +3

      I draw the line at cross-hatching or scouring the shaft. I'm not that keen on the idea of sandpaper either.

  • @BudgetGunsandGearReviews
    @BudgetGunsandGearReviews 4 роки тому +31

    You, Sir, are a true Gentleman. There is NO WAY that I could have uttered that sentence without giggling. Well done, sir, well done!

  • @-Zevin-
    @-Zevin- 4 роки тому +197

    Also for grip was anything like wax ever used? I use bees wax on wooden axe handles. I find it not only protects the wood, but provides a much better and sweat resistant grip. *Wax the shaft to make it tacky sticky and grippy, just don't wax the tip, because it will make penetration icky.*

    • @2008davidkang
      @2008davidkang 4 роки тому +30

      Tod might disagree with the icky bit, he did some experiment with small mini shafts with waxed tips of varying shapes, propelled by a miniature hand-held ballista

    • @zacktoor1591
      @zacktoor1591 4 роки тому +22

      @@2008davidkang
      "Mini shafts"... Shhhhh, we don't talk about those.

    • @estranhokonsta
      @estranhokonsta 4 роки тому +4

      Not only wax, there are all kind of products that can help with the friction part.
      Even with so much time that has passed after the roman age, there is a blooming commerce and industry based on resolving this problem.

    • @Sk0lzky
      @Sk0lzky 4 роки тому +7

      Well - if they used oils, wax and tar to process wood (and I don't see why they wouldn't, I invented this technology when I was 4 or 5, it's a shame there was nobody I could sell this idea to in my kindergarten) it's completely possible they'd do it on their weapons - especially if they expected to retrieve them after the fight. Carrying and using raw polished wood for a long time is really shite both for your hands and the tool.

    • @mallardtheduck406
      @mallardtheduck406 4 роки тому

      I know it took alot of years, but Eddie Van Hale, left his maple striped skunk necks natural... He played and after time his skin oils absorbed into the wood and eventually made it quite smooth.

  • @AstOnokGaming
    @AstOnokGaming 4 роки тому +4

    The mental energy it must take to put that many euphemisms in a video without even cracking a smirk is godlike

  • @MUEEN007
    @MUEEN007 4 роки тому +56

    1:24 "you need a bit more friction to get a good grip on your shaft" - Matt Easton 2020

    • @guybucknell4481
      @guybucknell4481 4 роки тому +2

      Every video I seem to pick up on these. I like seeing the little grin as Matt thinks about the words and tries not to show it too much xD

    • @Tankej0527
      @Tankej0527 4 роки тому +6

      Need more penetration

    • @JulianWeaver
      @JulianWeaver 4 роки тому +3

      Also girlfriends (and men's boyfriends) everywhere...

  • @dezzdinn
    @dezzdinn 4 роки тому +34

    I often listen to these as I’m working on something. But often find myself cracking up laughing

  • @Johngle
    @Johngle 4 роки тому +63

    "I like a smooth shaft. But if you want maximum penetration, you need a bit more friction"

  • @MrBandholm
    @MrBandholm 4 роки тому +93

    One really has to watch the video, while hearing it... Because just hearing it, sometimes ends up getting very explicit :P

  • @jamesmayes4351
    @jamesmayes4351 4 роки тому +38

    Pine tar. Think of American baseball players, pine tar/resin gives a solid grip, easy to clean up and reapply etc.

    • @treeboi
      @treeboi 4 роки тому +5

      I was about to mention this. Pine tar is a very common grip enhancer for baseball.
      I know that some other sports like rosen instead of pine tar.
      Both are natural substances that have been around for thousands of years.
      Also, the baseball trick is to put the pine tar on your helmet, not on your bat, so that you can apply more or less to your hands while at bat.

    • @MFM230
      @MFM230 4 роки тому +1

      Exactly. First thing I thought of.

    • @JoeSyxpack
      @JoeSyxpack 4 роки тому +6

      Pine tar might throw off you aim a bit though if it causes the... er... shaft to stick to your hand at the point of... um... release.
      (Its really hard to talk about spears without giggling like a 12 yo)

    • @MFM230
      @MFM230 4 роки тому

      @@JoeSyxpack True! I never played baseball with a bat that had pine tar--they did not use it in Little League. Thanks

  • @bdrferreira
    @bdrferreira 4 роки тому +4

    How could you deliver this with a straight face? I couldn't even stop giggling for the rest of the video and making innuendos out of everything

    • @shawn6860
      @shawn6860 4 роки тому

      Matt is a true professional.

  • @AdamCeladin
    @AdamCeladin 4 роки тому +3

    Great Throwing and Video Matt, similar things works for Throwing knives as well

  • @look4lec
    @look4lec 4 роки тому +1

    As a hockey player, it seems like you want to make a ribbed grip. Some players add a ribbed grip section on their hockey stick. Here's how. Tear off about a foot or more of athletic/hockey tape and twist it into a rope, sticky side out. Spiral-wind the sticky rope around the shaft, so the rib runs down about eight inches or a foot or so. Now cover up the rib with your tape, so you have a basic do-it-yourself grip with a rib. We often finish off these tape wraps with clear hockey tape, which alleviates friction on the palms of your hockey gloves and saves them from wearing out. Many people have tutorials on this, but this is the first thing I thought of. This way your skin isn't even touching the wood of the javelin. If you have an even wrap, it shouldn't add any strange balance effects. You can remove it and redo it without damaging the javelin at all.

  • @mediocrefunkybeat
    @mediocrefunkybeat 4 роки тому +32

    Euphemism-o-meter is in overload, right now.

    • @1989truck
      @1989truck 2 місяці тому

      the phrasing is amazing

  • @holyknightthatpwns
    @holyknightthatpwns 4 роки тому +23

    I would have thought that having a tight grip could overcome the problem of having a smooth shaft. Although I suppose it's a good deal harder to accurately throw a javelin if you've got to really clamp down with your hand.

    • @davidhoffman6980
      @davidhoffman6980 4 роки тому +4

      I imagine if you're in combat, your hands are probably sweating and really slippery. They may also have blood on them.

    • @Plastikdoom
      @Plastikdoom 4 роки тому

      Nah, you need that GI Joe, Kung fu action grip, haha

  • @TomaszDurlej
    @TomaszDurlej 4 роки тому +2

    When you hold it “just a little ahead of center of balance” you just show great way to use point where wood connect with metal as nice grip.

  • @WheatKnight
    @WheatKnight 4 роки тому +2

    Great video! Semi side-note: I also did track/field (athletics), and coached it. I found that javelin throwers and 400/800m sprinters were the overall best athletes.

  • @spawniscariot9756
    @spawniscariot9756 4 роки тому +3

    Linseed oil has always been, for me, an automatic addition for any wooden tool shafts. It gives me a good grip while also being protective

  • @mortenw.3575
    @mortenw.3575 4 роки тому

    Thanks, Matt. This made me think of applying resin or pine pitch for a better grip. I have no clue as to whether that was used historically.

  • @Agmundrs.Adventures
    @Agmundrs.Adventures 4 роки тому

    Really excited for the next video, and how you incorporate your modern-javelin technique! I fight in the SCA in the US, so if I want to fight with a non-basket-hilted weapon, I must wear a full gauntlet. I have a viking persona and fight with a hand axe and shield in war scenarios, but have found it nearly impossible to throw a javelin at mid range since it cannot rest properly on the web between my thumb and index finger of my gauntleted hand. With my clamshell (milanese in essence) gauntlets, I've resorted to essentially turning my arm to a giant atlatl and throwing the javelin from the butt of the shaft using the tips of my fingers/gauntlet. It's awkward to do in the shield wall with people behind me, but it also feels like your slapping the enemy from afar!

  • @Chrusttee
    @Chrusttee 4 роки тому

    The videos on spears are always the best for innuendo, but this one? Oh my!

  • @bangalorebobbel
    @bangalorebobbel 4 роки тому +1

    To me any kind of cordage/strings around the shaft makes definitely sense, crafting any structure not so much.
    The reason is that you would use a pilum rarely for throwing, but most of the time you would use it as walking stick or you carry it over your shoulder. In both cases, some cordage would make much more sense (concerning delivering grip as well as comfort) than crafting any structure in the shaft.
    A little bit of cordage would have even a better effect on the pilum in case it goes through an enemy's shield further than only the iron head - the cordage could deliver a stopping effect and keep the pilum effectively in the shield. I duubt that any (simple) structure in the wood could have same effect.
    A cordage, just as final argument, would also be effective in delivering grip during rain or any other situation where your pilum and/or your hands are wet.
    Another idea could be: using instead of stings made out of plant fibres stripes of (goat) leather. That material was widely available in the legions. But leather often looses grip in wet conditions ...

    • @markfergerson2145
      @markfergerson2145 4 роки тому

      Using a pilum as a walking stick (presumably pointy end up) on long marches makes a lot of sense. I'd be interested to see where on the shaft one would naturally grip it when used that way- is it anywhere near the balance point?
      Cordage may seem more reasonable to you than "any (simple) structure on the wood" but consider knurling on tools, gunstocks etc. which can't fall off or come loose, is unaffected by being wet and is an excellent grip aid, and knurling is basically closely-spaced cross-hatching.
      Such structuring could be done by any soldier with a sword or knife edge during down time between marches or whatever as part of regular maintenance of their equipment

  • @Sabortooftigar
    @Sabortooftigar 4 роки тому

    Hi Matt, great video. I think cross hatching or marking with a knife etc makes good sense for the reason you mentioned here, as well as providing a marker of where you want to throw from, so one could make sure they're practicing or throwing consistently.
    Something else you might consider is the particular coating on the shaft. One of my favorite protective coatings for my axe handles and staff is beeswax which I find to be the perfect spot between sticky and smooth. It's also water repellent (in case it's rainy or your hands are sweaty, in addition to protecting that wood and metal by repelling moisture :) just a thought, I'm sure there were many different possible coatings used in different areas depending on what was available, but this one has been working really nicely for me

  • @rshaart4810
    @rshaart4810 4 роки тому +1

    I think you have a point there, with the "hand finished shaft" idea, to my knowledge the Romans definitely had draw knives to do wood working with so a "tool finish" would probably be more than adequate for something like a pilum where the only thing really of value/recoverable is the iron head

  • @DrTarrandProfessorFether
    @DrTarrandProfessorFether 10 місяців тому +1

    Two ways to throw spears… direct to target is very tiring and takes lots of energy… good for hunting rabbits or aiming at a particular enemy. What I like is military throw… shooting 45+ degree up gently and let the spear slide out of your hand. Balance is so the tip is pulling down… you want the spear to come down and enter the ground and stick in it… so it comes down on an enemy and goes through their feet or neck area. Plus, the 1st row had their shields in ground to deflect missles (slickers, 2nd Row has shield up to deflect arrows and Lances… so the 3rd Row throws over the 1st two rows. Shooting spears directly will impale the mate behind you! At 45 degrees, less hazard to the 4th row.

  • @victorkunchev6438
    @victorkunchev6438 4 роки тому +5

    "I'll be very interested to see your comments below" Oh, you know what's com- I mean, headed your way. Dang! He almost had me doing it!

  • @ThreadBomb
    @ThreadBomb 4 роки тому

    As soon as Matt mentioned the problem I thought of hatching. When I played guitar I used to do it with my plectrums. And it's easy to imagine soldiers sitting around chatting while roughing up their new pila.

  • @hoff2112
    @hoff2112 4 роки тому +1

    Like you I threw the javalin at school and I agree, there would definitely be something to grip. Maximum force and accuracy would be top priority for a soldier facing an enemy. I reckon legionaries would have been like most of us, that is to say they loved to personalise their equipment. I'm guessing (with no evidence at all) that in a group of soldiers you'd find a number of different approaches to making their Pila more grippy: roughened wood, wax, pitch, bindings maybe even something as simple as a handful of mud/grit/earth at the last moment. Personal preferences and 'what works' would play a big part.

  • @SonsOfLorgar
    @SonsOfLorgar 4 роки тому

    The Pilum I made myself from forged iron and an ash shaft a few years ago, I shaped the shaft by setting it up with two screws between two angle irons along a board and used an angle grinder with a coarse sanding wheel at an angle to sand it down while imparting spin to the shaft.
    That way, the surface became quite coarse and grippy while still smooth enough to not form splinters :)

  • @Kairos0x
    @Kairos0x 4 роки тому +3

    "I like a smooth shaft, but if you want maximum penetration..." God bless you, Matt Easton, don't you dare ever change.

  • @stephenmclement
    @stephenmclement 4 роки тому

    Matt, I have a conjecture as a woodworker knowing little about historic weapon manufacture. I conjecture that the shafts were shaved and not turned historically. That would leave a shaft that is something like a 32-gon and not a circle. Those small facets and ridges give great grip.

  • @corwin32
    @corwin32 4 роки тому +1

    Kudos to you. 1:30 may have had the most innuendo packed into one sentence ever.

  • @Sk0lzky
    @Sk0lzky 4 роки тому

    A few points (based mostly on your constant reminders that weapons/armour are mostly carried, no used): if a wooden pole is left without finish it will smoothen with use (or even with time and some weather exposure) so, even if they were left rough by the manufacturer, the area around POB would still end up completely smooth (even smoother than it would be after just sanding perhaps. At least that's what happened to my quarterstaff and countless axe handles i didn't bother sanding properly).
    My second issue is with the effect rough wood has on the skin - for some reason when carried and not used it tends to chafe which back then would surely lead to infections. I have no idea why it does that when it's held but not as much when you slide it up and down but that's just my (and my friends') experience.
    On the other hand making stuff which probably will end up broken and soaked with mud, blood and crap en masse you probably wouldn't bother making it as smooth as modern replicas. It couldn't be too rough though imo, 400 grit paper tops.
    I'd lean towards the wrapping to be honest. The idea of carrying spare strips of cloth or cord wrapped around stuff or even one's own body parts can be seen in various primitive cultures, among bushcraft/survival enthusiasts and even in the military both with fabric and duct tape.

  • @thekaxmax
    @thekaxmax 4 роки тому

    you can use a wrapped cord that's not attached to the spear but has a finger loop. I've used it for school javelins, and got a good amount more range.
    Could also tie a bit of wet leather around it and let it dry as a stop ring, give you a throwing handhold.

  • @moreparrotsmoredereks2275
    @moreparrotsmoredereks2275 4 роки тому +13

    Have you considered lubricating the head for easier penetration?
    Tod tried waxing arrowheads and got some interesting results.

    • @jamescanjuggle
      @jamescanjuggle 4 роки тому

      Just saw that video, crazy results from something so simple

  • @justrobin8155
    @justrobin8155 4 роки тому

    I'm glad to see at least someone is being productive with their free time

  • @natehammar7353
    @natehammar7353 4 роки тому +14

    I would think the other advantage of the hatching would be making it easier to index exactly where the point of balance was.

  • @chrisw.735
    @chrisw.735 4 роки тому +7

    Wouldn't the bulge (where the skewer meets the shaft) be a good place to get more friction? It would be ahead of the point of balance ofc, but when lobbing these things from formation, i'd assume accuracy isn't rated as highly as power and range?

    • @cornerdav
      @cornerdav 4 роки тому +4

      I was thinking the very same thing. Also no expert but weren't two pila carried? if so that that would suggest to me that getting as much range would be critical so you have enough time to throw both before the enemy is upon you.

    • @Errtuabyss
      @Errtuabyss 4 роки тому +1

      My personal opinion is that the point of balance is slightly to far back in this version of the pilum and it is indeed intended to throw it with the hand just behind the bulge. All version of the Pilum with the bulge (there are some without that wheren't used much for infantry if I remember right) have a ledge on one side while they are smooth on the other. At least for me there is no other reason for it to be shaped that way then to support propelling it by having using that ledge.

  • @-fazik-3713
    @-fazik-3713 4 роки тому +35

    1:20 onward - This needs context. Without it is too weird.

    • @p7outdoors297
      @p7outdoors297 4 роки тому

      Very true

    • @alanbateman8703
      @alanbateman8703 4 роки тому +1

      Sorry, I forgot about context. Schoolboy...

    • @ArmandKarlsen
      @ArmandKarlsen 4 роки тому +6

      I'd wager it's entirely deliberate. Matt is well aware of how meme-y he is; he has, at least once, memeposted stuff of himself to an SG meme/shitposting group on FB. :P

    • @-fazik-3713
      @-fazik-3713 4 роки тому +1

      @@ArmandKarlsen Probably, since You can clearly see the smile :D

  • @phelanyoung6770
    @phelanyoung6770 4 роки тому +18

    What about altering your hand, rather than the shaft? Rosin or maybe some kind of glove? I have no idea if there's any evidence of either though

    • @thekaxmax
      @thekaxmax 4 роки тому

      rosin has to be applied. You also need something you can use while sweaty.

    • @jdd5672
      @jdd5672 4 роки тому +1

      In order to get a good grip both objects need to create sufficient friction, having a smooth object and a very rough surface is going to create a lower coefficient of friction than two moderately rough surfaces.

    • @ThreadBomb
      @ThreadBomb 4 роки тому +1

      Any evidence for Roman soldiers wearing leather gauntlets in combat?

    • @therustedshank9995
      @therustedshank9995 4 роки тому

      @@ThreadBomb I think I heard that some soldiers wore segmented forearm protection, but I don't think they ever wore gauntlets.

  • @SIRMMA
    @SIRMMA 4 роки тому +4

    1:21 - Immediately scrolls down to check comments... Am not disappointed

  • @geekay4703
    @geekay4703 4 роки тому +7

    With almost all traces of modern humanity gone, he needs to make a season 10 cameo on The Walking Dead.

  • @damonclark51
    @damonclark51 4 роки тому +1

    Could the purpose of that big square grip on the front be for throwing, I threw jav a few times and if I remember correctly the friction from the lashings helped but I was also the ridge they created for some thing to hold onto

    • @JanoTuotanto
      @JanoTuotanto 4 роки тому

      Exactly!
      If the wooden shaft was just a bit thinner or shorter the balance point would be just at the right spot.

  • @matthewhajicek3650
    @matthewhajicek3650 4 роки тому +1

    Wondering if the point of balance on the originals might have been just behind the swell. You could taper the shaft a bit more to bring it forward.

  • @asa-punkatsouthvinland7145
    @asa-punkatsouthvinland7145 4 роки тому

    I used a certain method to make a grip for my single hand Viking axe.
    Take a rasp (wood file), run thevrasp around the shaft in one direction in basically one go. It will make grooves in the shaft adding grip, but is easier to do than checkering.

  • @jeffyoung60
    @jeffyoung60 6 місяців тому

    The Romans also used a special short javelin, almost a dart. It comprised a wood shaft three feet long and an iron shank one foot long tipped with point that could be shaped like a small leaf, rectangle, or triangle. The beauty was that these short javelins were easy to manufacture and in great quantity. While the Roman cavalry carried shorter javelins about 3.5 feet long, the Roman legionaries and auxiliaries practiced with these four-feet short javelins as auxiliary weapons.
    These short javelins could be stored in quantity in Roman watchtowers and along frontier wall guard posts and wall towers. Then legionaries could pitch these javelins down upon any barbarian raiding party trying to cross the frontier or attempting to breach a wall.

  • @fpena6038
    @fpena6038 4 роки тому

    I agree. As one who has made a (very) rough modern reproduction pilum and practiced with it, I can attest that using something to increase the friction certainly makes a significant difference in both range and accuracy. Now, mind you, my profession (medical) requires a much softer touch, so I don't have calloused hands by any means. As a result, I noticed almost immediately that even with a nicely sanded shaft, I would want some kind of binding, so I used the very historically inaccurate Gorilla Tape (just a thin layer) with excellent effect. Obviously leather would be better, and as you said, the majority of depictions do not indicate any wrap of any sort, but to answer the question of whether it makes a difference to range and accuracy, the answer is yes to both, and the difference is both positive and significant.

  • @ulfhazelcreek8108
    @ulfhazelcreek8108 4 роки тому

    All shaft jokes aside (and oh so many could and have been made) it would be interesting to see you experimenting with how fast you could throw the pila and them draw a gladius to possibly attack the enemy or receive their charge. The short distance theory you have makes a lot of sense and it makes me wonder about what would happen after the pilum were thrown.

  • @ColossalSwordFormAndTechnique
    @ColossalSwordFormAndTechnique 4 роки тому +1

    A secret scholagladiatoria. Use choji oil on that wooden shaft. It'll become darker brown, shiny and more sturdy.

  • @matthewneuendorf5763
    @matthewneuendorf5763 4 роки тому

    It's not the pilum, but there is mention of a thong used after the Avar style on spears. I believe that this is specifically in the context of lancer cavalry, and is intended to help with maneuvering the spear from horseback and retaining it when you charge, but elsewhere in the same manual IIRC it talks about throwing spears (I believe they suggest the first 1-2 ranks throw theirs as the enemy draws near, allowing the rearward ranks to strike through the shield line with their spears while the forward ranks draw swords). I don't think the spear thong is intended to help with throwing, but it is the first thing that came to mind as a mention in the sources.

  • @NathanaelKeller
    @NathanaelKeller 4 роки тому

    Never have I seen a family friendly video with a less family friendly comment section than this.

  • @jordanthomas4379
    @jordanthomas4379 4 роки тому +37

    Matt’s wife: “I don’t know where he goes during the day, I think he’s cheating on me”.
    Matt:

  • @thedoughnutking9514
    @thedoughnutking9514 4 роки тому

    Many times a knob would be craved or affixed at the balance to facilitate grip and add a light extra mass to increase penetration

  • @icfubar9150
    @icfubar9150 4 роки тому

    In North America the game of baseball is played with smooth wooden bats swung at great speed. To increase grip 'batters' sometimes wear special gloves and may even apply rosin to aid in the grip. I'd try batter's gloves or just rosin before hacking away at the spear's wooden shaft. Bats are usually wrapped with bat tape or a spray on to add in gripping.

  • @robgoodsight6216
    @robgoodsight6216 4 роки тому

    Another mythical contribution about pole arms!!!

  • @onbedoeldekut1515
    @onbedoeldekut1515 4 роки тому +2

    Hi Matt, could it be argued that the whole reason why we don't have any extant examples of pila with a complete shaft is BECAUSE they were scored, indented (or even potentially notched for a cord), making that part of the item both more prone to breaking upon impact or degrading over time through natural means?

    • @estranhokonsta
      @estranhokonsta 4 роки тому +3

      I think that one of the main reasons is that after so many centuries, any material will have extensively degraded, worse for organic based ones like wood.

    • @louisvictor3473
      @louisvictor3473 4 роки тому

      Not really, 2000 years or so for wood not intentionally preserved or meeting rather extraordinary circumstances is more than enough time for it to degrade even if it was the hardest, best made shaft of its time. A regular wooden chair will take about 13 years to decompose. You can make it longer with a paint finish and the like, but you're looking at just a few decades, not even a half century. Some artifacts do survive without deliberate attention, but again either due to extreme circumstances (e.g. being frozen), or not without time taking a noticeable toll (more than enough to make things sufficiently unclear).

    • @louisvictor3473
      @louisvictor3473 4 роки тому

      But just to be clear, I didn't mean to imply it is evidence against the idea you propose, it is just it isn't evidence for it either (it is just uncorrelated).

    • @onbedoeldekut1515
      @onbedoeldekut1515 4 роки тому

      Which is why Matt didn't include examples of broken pila discovered in the last century.
      That was a shame.
      If only he had done so.

    • @louisvictor3473
      @louisvictor3473 4 роки тому

      @@onbedoeldekut1515Discovered in the last century doesn't help, unless it is one of those rare conditions (say, a frozen stash or one in a well sealed, dry environment). Otherwise, you'd prefer if they were found sooner by earlier historians, who would have then taken measures to slow or stop decay, document and preserve, rather than something recently uncovered that had more time to further degrade.

  • @travisray8916
    @travisray8916 4 роки тому

    Interested to hear your opinion on the trident as a weapon and for the purposes of parrying! The classic gladiator types offer an interesting angle on single combat in particular! They are obviously a bit different than the loadouts used for soldiers and other martial contexts. I'm not sure if they emphasized efficiency and utility, or just made for entertaining action! It's also funny that they didn't incorporate more quirky implements that didn't work in battle but were passable or flambuoyant in affect in the controlled environment of the pit. The trident and net seem to be something to that effect! Or perhaps the trident's advantage in reach was enough to justify the lack of armour that went with it! I wonder what gladiator loadouts/classes you would suggest for intriguing competition!
    India has such fantastic offerings, with these punch daggers and what-not.

  • @dallasadams7039
    @dallasadams7039 4 роки тому +1

    It seems like cross hatching the shaft is a good way to get a better hold of your shaft. And it could explain why there isnt any examples since the wood would rot away or the art wouldn't show it.
    I also think that a rougher worked shaft would make sense as a cost saving measure.
    But as long as you have a thick and sturdy shaft, I think you have already won half the battle.

  • @olinseats4003
    @olinseats4003 4 роки тому

    another option, though I don't have any historical sources for it would be the use of rosin, pitch, or some sort of sap. pitch, at least, would be fairly easy to acquire in the field and already have any number of uses

  • @Kyrelel
    @Kyrelel 4 роки тому

    That sly smile before the innuendo onslaught :)

  • @Tommiart
    @Tommiart 4 роки тому

    Aaah Matt, master of the single entendre.

  • @ShummaAwilum
    @ShummaAwilum 4 роки тому +1

    Regarding grip location, I don't think accuracy would have been as big of a concern as range since they would primarily throw pila at formations rather than individuals. Greater range would allow a greater percentage of their own troops could meaningfully hit the enemy formation with what is very short range weapon. Accuracy is moot beyond the first couple of ranks anyway.

  • @akoponen
    @akoponen 4 роки тому +1

    How about using a spear thrower/Atlatl or looping a string over the back of the shaft to help provide extra force to the throw?

    • @markfergerson2145
      @markfergerson2145 4 роки тому

      I was going to mention the atlatl as a counterexample to applying the force at or ahead of the balance point- they do require considerable practice though.

  • @davekingrey1009
    @davekingrey1009 4 роки тому +1

    When you were talking about tying the loop around the spear to get extra range made me think of the atlatl. Have you ever you used one of those?

  • @jamescanjuggle
    @jamescanjuggle 4 роки тому

    With my own spears I've made, I'd usually make bead like grooves at the balance point. I started doing this because I found my shots were always more accurate - 15-20meters if I was able to get the spear spinning as I threw it(try thinking how you'd throw a rugby ball or an American football. The grooves fit my fingers nicely and made spinning much easier.

  • @JimBCameron
    @JimBCameron 4 роки тому +2

    You focus on the weapons shaft, but the hand wielding a weapon is the common denominator which made me think something like supplying troops with, say, an orange or citrus fruit where possible would serve better - better grip on all weapons used & energy boost to fighter in advance of fight?

    • @markfergerson2145
      @markfergerson2145 4 роки тому +1

      I was thinking of the massive use of olive oil by Romans making their hands slippery. Citrus would be the perfect counteragent for that.

    • @JimBCameron
      @JimBCameron 4 роки тому

      @@markfergerson2145 Another benefit would be to rub it on the forehead to stop sweat dripping into the eyes?

  • @aysseralwan
    @aysseralwan 4 роки тому +2

    2:15 I really got excited and thought he'd say STICKY FINGERS

  • @Darksoulshin
    @Darksoulshin 4 роки тому

    I think the metal part must be longer or a metal sphere must be added in the part that joins the wood with the metal.
    In both cases, the center of mass moves towards the point where wood and metal are joined and therefore the grip could be moved to that point both for greater balance and to exploit the convexity of the area to have greater friction.
    Furthermore, a longer metal part would lead to greater oscillation and bending of the metal, which would make the weapon much more effective against shields.
    Obviously it depends on shield shield.

  • @DoktorIcksTV
    @DoktorIcksTV 4 роки тому

    Somewhere I once read that in ancient times the handles of swords were thinly coated with honey before a battle to make them sticky and so improve the grip. Please don't ask me where that was. But it seems to me quite logical and practical and that this was also done at Pila.

  • @DarkAngel1981x
    @DarkAngel1981x 4 роки тому

    thinking about this what comes to mind is that your hands would not be dry, you are after all in a life or death (do or die) situation, so I think your hands would be sweaty (mine would be). Another thing I'm thinking about is, is there such a thing as too much friction, where you sort of overcook the throw because the spear/ pilum leaves your hand too late. And did the romans think about such things and made them a bit easier to handle with damp/moist hands.

  • @leoscheibelhut940
    @leoscheibelhut940 4 роки тому

    I agree with your premise but before you carve crosshatches on the shaft, I'd try merely roughening the section with a course grade of sandpaper. I suspect that it will do the trick and if I'm wrong you can easily proceed to the crosshatching.

  • @camojoe83
    @camojoe83 4 роки тому +2

    "ok.. dammit.. take 756... Stop laughing at the shaft puns."

  • @Poohze01
    @Poohze01 4 роки тому +1

    Perhaps pila were generally made so that the point of balance was just behind the expansion for the joint to the iron head, providing a convenient place for the hand to push against right where it's needed. It seems a very Roman thing to me to kill two birds with one stone that way. I don't know how much of the shaft of your pilum you'd need to remove to achieve that, but I'd guess it's only 50 to 100mm. Dunno if you want to try anything that drastic. You could also try a weight of some type around where the collar over the wood/iron join is, to bring the balance forward a bit. That might give you some idea of how well that expansion in the shaft works in letting you transfer more power into the throw at least.

  • @MisterKisk
    @MisterKisk 4 роки тому

    You are correct, there doesn't appear to be any evidence that the Romans used the amentum when throwing pila. They did however use it on other javelins, so they were obviously aware of it's usage in increasing range.

  • @anthonywestbrook2155
    @anthonywestbrook2155 4 роки тому

    I have a wall-hanger, antique tourist trap, African short spear, and it has a beaded wrap right where I'd hold it for throwing.

  • @WarnerJoshuah
    @WarnerJoshuah 4 роки тому

    Does anyone know how these handles were made? Was a draw knife or spoke shave used? If so did that leave a smooth finish? I have used hand planers before and they leave a very smooth finish. I am just wondering if Matt is right about them being left rough without any extra work.

  • @newplantosuceed
    @newplantosuceed 4 роки тому

    Add a twine wrap to your preferred point of grip. Another interesting point were the soldiers younger and strength ratios different compared to a let's say a 30 yr old soldier casting a pillum.

  • @ursus8068
    @ursus8068 4 роки тому

    Made my day! Doesn’t everyone like a rougher shaft?

    • @peterclarke7240
      @peterclarke7240 4 роки тому

      I prefer a rough shafting, but to each his own.

  • @bartonbrevis3831
    @bartonbrevis3831 4 роки тому

    If it's an over sanding issue, just give it a rub-down with a course grit sandpaper. Should do the job well enough with out risk of cutting in too deep and accidentally creating stress risers or weak points.

  • @matthewdaniel6045
    @matthewdaniel6045 4 роки тому

    I would agree that they were primarily short range weapons. I'm pretty sure I read in my dads roman books that they were also issued slings.

  • @mallardtheduck406
    @mallardtheduck406 4 роки тому +2

    I Wish I Grew up near You... I know We'd be good friends!!! Keep "Living the Dream " my friend across the pond. BTW... We Need more Cat Easton!!!

  • @torbenjohansen6955
    @torbenjohansen6955 4 роки тому

    what about using resin covering your hands in it for having a better grip. both on your shield pilum and gladius?????? ( sticky hands)

  • @Traderjoe
    @Traderjoe 4 роки тому

    Is there any other known Roman kit that could serve as a pilum gripping device? Something that could almost function as as a hand atlatle?

  • @gordonlawrence1448
    @gordonlawrence1448 4 роки тому

    Just had to send this to a female friend of mine who was peeing herself laughing due to the potential for double entendres. Educational and hilareous at the same time. An opportunity for maximum confusion was missed by not releasing this April 1st.

    • @rayg.2431
      @rayg.2431 4 роки тому

      "Potential" for double entendres? My dear sir, we penetrated that barrier a long time ago...
      And for something completely different: ua-cam.com/video/dlDXVI6uM78/v-deo.html

    • @rayg.2431
      @rayg.2431 4 роки тому

      "Potential" for double entendres? My dear sir, we penetrated that barrier a long time ago...
      And for something completely different: ua-cam.com/video/dlDXVI6uM78/v-deo.html

    • @rayg.2431
      @rayg.2431 4 роки тому

      "Potential" for double entendres? My dear sir, we penetrated that barrier a long time ago...
      And for something completely different: ua-cam.com/video/dlDXVI6uM78/v-deo.html

  • @10101110101011001
    @10101110101011001 4 роки тому

    Your analysis of the pilum not being a throwing weapon makes sense to me. It would be like handing your gun to the enemy with a single shot. Maybe in the heat of the battle, particularly during a surge, it would make sense to pitch it, but only if it's directly followed by a barrage with swords or daggers.
    Do you have any idea what the 'prize' of the pilum was? Would the Roman army have a near-unlimited supply or were they a limited resource due to material and fabrication cost.

  • @deanlowther4020
    @deanlowther4020 4 роки тому

    Probably have been down to personal choice for the individual legionary as to the type of binding used and as any type of bindings on the shaft would have long since rotted away we will probably never know what was used or how. Also the type of pila with the 'lead' ball, its my view that this was not lead but wood, a part of the shaft, that allowed the hand to grip behind and around it the maximise grip and the force of the throw.

  • @CitizenSmith50
    @CitizenSmith50 4 роки тому

    As has been mentioned, beeswax on the grip is the old solution for slippery axe handles. Perhaps you should try this before messing up the shaft by roughening/ wrapping it?

  • @davidhoffman6980
    @davidhoffman6980 4 роки тому

    Hi. I don't know anything about Roman sources, but I would predict two ways to improve the pilum. I imagine in combat your hands will be covered in sweat, and sometimes blood. Additionally, I noticed that the pilum is unbalanced and pitches down in flight. With that in mind. One, I'd put some kind of hand grip on it-rough surface, a leather band around the gripping area (if leather was cheap enough to supply the army with large quantities of it), or wax. Two, I'd add a counterweight to the rear so the pilum is aligned with its momentum when it hits the target.

    • @davidhoffman6980
      @davidhoffman6980 4 роки тому

      Maybe being aligned on impact isn't important at the range it was used, and a counterweight would make it harder to lug around so the trade-off might not be worth it.

  • @blaisedoesa___thing3995
    @blaisedoesa___thing3995 4 роки тому

    Hey Schola! I've been watching all your spear/polearm videos to do some research for a class I would like to start at my club. I want to look into some short spear/strapped shield and trident/net fighting to experiment with. So far a lot of what I have found can be translated into trident, such as how it is a spear of sorts, or has catching points similar to the end of a bill, but I was wondering if you know of any sources or treatises I can look into that are specifically for use of a trident. I am trying to look into some Indian sources as it is popular there but I will admit I am a novice researcher to put it extremely generously. Love your content!

  • @JETMECH401ST
    @JETMECH401ST 3 роки тому

    I think one way is to rough up the shaft then spray in the rubber bed liner or brush it on. This will not wear off and will give the ultimate grip. 👍🏻

  • @timnystrand5539
    @timnystrand5539 4 роки тому +1

    you could try the Vatican Library i know they have a lot of material about the romans and there tactics and strategis

  • @jamesc8259
    @jamesc8259 2 роки тому

    Great video. Do you think they would use something like pine tar to get a better grip on their weapons?

  • @romainvicta3076
    @romainvicta3076 4 роки тому

    *This made me chuckle*

  • @johnladuke6475
    @johnladuke6475 4 роки тому

    It may be modern prejudice from string and cord being so readily available, but I'd imagine the simplest solution would be to wrap something around the shaft. A little bit of string or leather tied around the shaft where it's gripped would give plenty of purchase.

  • @manalainen
    @manalainen 4 роки тому

    Trim the tail end so that the POB is right before where the spear head is attached to. No need to roughen anything. Also, then, try holding it like a dart vs a spear.

  • @brianrose3096
    @brianrose3096 4 роки тому

    One thought: Have you experimented throwing while wearing armor?
    A Roman soldier would at least have Lorica Segmentata (basically, breast plate(s) and pauldrons) and probably Lorica Manica (arm guards or at least bracers). I would imagine (cause I have not tried it myself yet) this would require some change in how any spear/ javelin would be thrown, because mobility and the weight you are shifting on you body would be different.

  • @calgore5
    @calgore5 4 роки тому

    I know a lot of guys that rub just a little bit of dirt on to their axe handle for better grip. It's cheap, always available and it works.

  • @takedasig5564
    @takedasig5564 4 роки тому

    If you have a propane or butane torch, take a damp, not sopping wet, rag and wipe down your grip area a couple of times. This will lift the grain a bit. Apply the torch quickly to exaggerate the surface by rush drying it. With a light hand with the torch, you should not even darken the wood noticeably. If it gets too rough, sandpaper/steel will it down some. It's the least damaging and intrusive method I can think of

    • @markfergerson2145
      @markfergerson2145 4 роки тому

      All of that could be done around a campfire after a long march, too.