Ending the myth that single driver cannot do low extension
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2022
- Lots of meandering thoughts around loudspeakers, especially single drivers... how they compare to multi drivers... on what is really full range.. and how even multi drivers fail at that as well....
And getting to the point that these fun little single drivers can provide astonishing deep bass of heart and visceral warming quality. Timpani, church organ, cello, full orchestra is so lovely with this alley cat driver. It energizes the room with my 2W 807 Darling amp.... I was listening to a Hania Rani studio concert recording with two pianos and a keyboard synth with super deep tones... and it kicked the butt in the low end of my Sennheiser so badly it hurts. (As the adage says folks listen to HP for bass extension... now this single driver gets me quite a bit next level LF experience to a HP!!!!)
I have recntly experienced this. I always cranked bass up. Recently I got upgraded my system with some vintage speakers, and a tube amp. I kept resisting adding a sub. Overtime I noticed I had more bass, and more bass. Without changing anything in the chain. What I realized is, I didnt have more bass, I could just hear it better as I was not overloading my ears with it anymore.
My philosphy has changed from louder bass, to better sounding low frequencies. I now can listen at lower volume an still get the punch, boom, and rumble just by listening better. Patience is a virtue, I have learned that now that Im 40, an I couldn’t be happier.
Excellent
It's like listening to a big orchestra but at a more distand listening position ..........all is there ............not so with many powerfull HIFI systems when turning down the volume the music shrinks to become like a smaller orchestra ...............or a little system, more like a smal hifiset or radio.......
Small dynamics and tonal coherence are better preserved with "sensitive" single drivers......
Late evening listening on a lower soundlevel can take you away as no other ............in the endless perspective of a musical landscape or a musical journey .........with some music sometimes far away from mother earth.....into the space where the souls belong and sings................
So true! :) Late night listenings were always my favorite with the single drivers. And this little runt, the alley cat oval paper cone Alnico magnet 16R driver-based speaker has an uncanny ability to play so s o f t l y with such amazing involvement. In this aspect I prefer it even to the VOL, the big Altec ...
@@realworldaudio Yes Janos ............it's like a communion between music and yourself............................UNITY with the UNIVERSE..........UNI - VERSES.........
Here many like the green cone Saba drivers they found in Saba cabinets.............and the paper Philips bi-cone alnico drivers used in tube radios and old tube TV sets............
Hi Frank. Can you recommend any of the Saba or Philips bi-cone drivers for a Voigt Pipe (maybe folded)? They actually seem to be available on the great internet for my kind of money :) Thank you for your many knowledgeable comments here on RWA! Claus
@@earkivaren hello Claus , I never build or tried a Voigt pipe but ............haha , one can do the experience as the cost will stay low.
But these speakers excell in tonal structure that not changes within the freuency band.............the ear is very sensitive to that and it pleases the listening by it's coherence .......low level detail and dynamics are excellent and will bloom when driven by a good tube amplifier.........
I used them in open baffle and in a relative small cabinet .......and I didn't complain for bass extension because the music was telling me to listen and listen again...
The 800 Ohm version , I drove by an simple OTL ( capacitor output.....something like an Aikido circuit from John Broskie ) that can drive from .......300 ohm and up with very good results.
Multi driver speakers can sound very impressive but as Janos and other tell , they can't excell the coherence in tone, natural time relation and the ability of reproducing those microdynamics that make sounds realistic sounding...at low level.
If you experience , thanks for sharing ......
There's always something to share or to learn from everybody...even from those who negate facts .........but build on beliefs.......
I think the secret is to LISTEN to music and to PEOPLE..............
@@frankgeeraerts6243 Thank you Frank. Well they do sound intriguing. Like everything else they have their limitations, but people really seem to like them, and the pricing and availability makes them a good choice for some newbie DIY-projects. After I asked you, I did some searching, and it seems that Voigt Pipes is not how they are usually applied, so I have to dig a little deeper into some of its proven cabinet designs. Sorry, not the most adventurous route :) Thanks again! Claus
@@earkivaren You're always welcome....
your cat is adorable he looks like my little orange man Peter
Kintaro says hello to Peter ! 🐱🧶🧶✨✨
Did I miss the dynamite vid?!🤷♂️.
not yet, have not made it yet!! 🧶🧶✨✨
@@realworldaudio Will it be dangerous to viewers ???? ............Explosive Janos ?
few ideas but well confused... 👍👋👍
If you want clean sound from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, combine a small open-baffled full-range driver with a Ridthaler dipole at a cross-over frequency between 250 and 300 Hz. 😁
Sir, 02:50 Does that imply that Monkeys can hear the sounds from grass and trees when they endure stress? After watching quite a few of your episode i became convinced, that Tapped Horn Subs and Coaxial tops would be a fine hybrid, for PA application? Also, would a midbass deciated driver in folded horn, boxed with coaxial count as threeway? Tyvm.
The 20+kHz sounds in the wild come predominantly from insects, and monkeys have the keen hearing all times, not just during stress. Yes to the PA application, and also yes, that's a 3 way ; ). Cheers! Janos ✨✨
Where the heck are this driver come, never saw them in other videos?
I showed them in the very first videos, when I started my channel 2 years ago... ;) No idea exactly who made them, what they are... nothing stamped on them to find data on, no user feedback on similar drivers, no T/S parameters available. I measured the T/S myself, and with that finally could optimize the cabinet. It is my prrrecious little speakers, sounds simply amazing with 2W SET. One of the extremely few speakers that I can tolerate and ENJOY after I got used to what the big Altecs can do... big Altec-like sound in a tiny cabinet. About 91-92dB efficient, from 30Hz-17kHz. Entirely non-mechanical presentation, makes digital sound more analogue-like than analogue typically is on modern high current / high excursion speakers...
@@realworldaudio Yes it's also like the glass being half empty or half filled..........more analog = less digital..............
Where is the myth?
It is just physics..
Nothing strange a large (er) driver will be able to reproduce the lower frequencies that we are after in this case.
And as you have shown in yours previous videos the port and its tuning frequency is as a ADDITIONAL driver.
So in other words we have the single driver that can it's thing and the larger the diameter is the lower it can go. (When there is single/full frequency drivers easily ruffly from ~4" to ~10")
The enclosure and port tuning can be considered as a ADDITIONAL driver that has a x-max (a.k.a. how far the woofer can move) of INFINITY ♾️.
So in practice if we are correct there is two drivers and not one, when you think of it and count the port.
Now to the hard part a sealed box makes that the efficiency goes up. And a ported box is even more efficient. But here is no free lunches.
So now when we have clarified that the ported box can be considered as a speaker on its own.
A port that most miss to explain is simply a Helmholtz resonator. (Janos maybe a idea to make a video of.)
A Helmholtz resonator can be used as a room acustic treatment that is tuned for a given frequency to bring down a peak of X dB that you have issues with at your listening position. And it is as seen in Janos videos at a tuned very specific frequency. (Yes you need to start measuring, then measuring is knowing.)
Why we don't like free lunches for sound quality is that increased efficiency come with a cost that cost is the audio quality.
The port in the enclosure smears exactly the same as if you had a speaker with two drivers (that you actually has).
When the tuning frequency for the port has a infinity x-max then it will "bombard" the room in small (in diameter) well defined and high velocity air (sound cannon). That will then shake and rattle most of the stuff in your room that has that resonance frequency, depending on the volume level you play at.
So if you don't want smearing and (chest) pounding air port cannons that make stuff to rattle? 😉
Maybe you want to hear all the details easier without any smearing? 🤔
What if we take instead of the box and the port and replace that "driver" with a real driver instead.. (nothing to loose if you stay away from passive crossovers that makes you loose 10 dB of efficiency with those passive components.)
You get a big dedicated drivers the bigger the better and place it in a open baffle (OB) arrangement. Why big? As we know the OB is the least efficient "enclosure". And we also know that low frequency reproduction need to move a lot of air for those low frequencies. Plus we know that our hearing is the least sensitive at the low frequencies (so we might need to play louder there to compensate that). There is no substitute for cone area when it comes to bass.
What DO we gain with that arrangement instead of a ported box?
1. No high speed (velocity) sound canons that exites stuff in your listening environment.
2. No delayed or smearing of the sound. A bass attack/hit on a drum makes the big driver to go out and directly effect the air that goes directly to your ear drums. (And not compressing air in a box that then shooting out trough the port and if you are lucky going to your ear drums. If not the port is located on the back of the speaker or elsewhere. Smearing is that it will arrive to your ear drums later in time domain and smears over those other sounds that should be played at that time instead. So smearing over that and you will not be able to hear those sounds when the delayed bass sound is louder.)
3. A box (panels) is at the low bass frequencies radiate in ALL directions. That put more emphasis on to have more (in volume/thicker) sound absorption in your room. (A OB have cancelation to the sides/up/down and don't load the room nearly as much equal less problem and loading of the room.) (Why I wrote DOWN it is because mine two 18" is hanging freely in the air and not sitting on the floor that is also a boundary, as I said I didn't like compromises)
4. Sound quality and definition. For example you can hear what type of bass pedal the drummer is using by how it is hitting the drum skin and with what. Otherwise you don't hear that micro details only the drum itself.
You need a active crossover and dedicated power amplifiers for each driver. (That is a separate topic that not about the enclosure.)
What you lose is that you do not get or more precise you loose something that you probably have learned to like and are preconditioned your whole life. By listening to ported enclosures.
Is the rumbling and physical hit in the chest or feeling the air moving your hair on your arms and so on.. (no cannon effects of shooting air pressure from a small hole.) So you need to relearn and get used to a different presentation.
That is not there and instead you gain sound quality by definition, details and "faster" and more dynamics (no box with under and over pressure depending if the cone goes in or out. That will slightly hindering the cone to do its full movement in or out.)
So open baffle is the best for sound quality. And the worst for home cinema there you want those "effects" that a ported box will give you instead of sound quality.
Then we can argue crossover will do this and that. But a analog crossover in a low level side that divide what frequencies goes to the power amplifier for the bass driver and what goes to the power amplifier for the highs will still act as amplifier connected directly to the voice coil of the driver.
You also get a frequency response independent of the dynamic changes in a driver's electrical characteristics (e.g. from heating of the voice coil).
The possibility of an easy way to vary or fine-tune each frequency band to the specific drivers used. Examples would be crossover slope, filter type (e.g., Bessel, Butterworth, Linkwitz-Riley, etc.), relative levels, etc.
Better isolation of each driver from the signals being handled by other drivers, thus reducing intermodulation distortion and overdriving and smearing.
The power amplifiers are directly connected to the speaker drivers, thereby maximizing amplifier damping control of the speaker voice coil, reducing consequences of dynamic changes in driver electrical characteristics, all of which are likely to improve the transient response of the system.
Reduction in power amplifier output requirement. With no energy being lost in passive components, amplifier requirements are reduced considerably (up to 1/2 in some cases), reducing costs, and potentially increasing quality.
But I get it that it is easier to build a box that has a port in it and call it a day.
But for me it is a to great compromise to be overseeing, when I always go after sound quality even if I need to learn new and more complicated things than building boxes. 😉🎵🎶🎼👍