The best speaker for connecting emotionally with the singer. Lyric moon river 8.
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- Опубліковано 15 січ 2023
- #hifi #audiophile #stereo #speakers
Patreon: / thomasandstereo
Loic video on the Galion • Hifi love letter: THE ...
Gear mentioned or used in evaluating the Lyric speakers
Lyric Moonriver 8 speakers
Reisong A12 tube integrated amp
Reisong A50 tube integrated amp
Willsenton R300 tube integrated amp
Galion TS120 tube integrated amp
Finale tube integrated amp
Luxman SQ150N tube integrated amp
Atoll IN400 integrated amp
Mcintosh MAC6700 integrated amp
Gustard R26 R2R DAC
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Track: Left Alone - Airixis [Audio Library Release]
Music provided by Audio Library Plus
Watch: • Left Alone - Airixis |...
Free Download / Stream: alplus.io/left-alone
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What is your thoughts on single-driver speakers? Curious to try it? Have you owned some? Why do you love them?
More info here lii-song.ca/collections/lyric
Loic's honest video on the TS120: ua-cam.com/video/wkPz90ZBtbg/v-deo.html
Thomas - your views on why the synergy with the A12 have another dimension. Because of the lack of control that the Reisong has over the bass region, with a sensitive single driver that actually becomes an enhancement to the bass region, soft though it is. The lack of control is perceived as an increase in bass presence. Quite enjoyable bouncy bass.
Andrew Jones Robinson has sourcepoint 10 similar, but better. More lively bright .
@@aitchr8770 It is not necessarily as much of control (damping factor) as it is the frequency response change due to the amplifier z out and how tubes plate resistance responds to changing driver Z. A SS amp generally increases the output and control into lower impedance loads and without a loudspeaker Zobel network will sound wiry into the rising impedance created by the voice coil inductance whereas the tubes w OPT react completely differently. Drivers designed for transformer coupled tube amps are designed differently although they can be used with any amp that does not mean good sound. A Zobel network is really mandatory for any FR driver used w SS amps but almost never implemented.
@@miahmiah4841 That I think is a Coaxial design like a KEF LS50, different than a full range single driver design. So you don't have that intimacy with Coaxial design.
@@FineArtPrintmaker better off buying parametric equilzer, since you can play with over 5000 different sound frequency, that's if your not lazy or sound engineer, music director. .
You are the best....I will never forget the "lap dance analogy..."🤣
Great review. Single driver speakers & low power Single-ended Class A are marriages made in Heaven. IMO, these type of "marriages" limits your musical genre. Is glorious in reproducing vocals and simple musical arrangements. Doesn't shine as well when playing Rock & Roll and full orchestral music, i.e. complicated music.
Yup but if you primarily listen to certain kind-of music, it is heavenly.
I agree with you. It's impossible to hear a Mahler symphony on such a sound system, but it's a delight to hear chamber music.
I’ll listen to orchestra on my fr speakers if i want
@@ColocasiaCorm You can listen to what you want. It will just sound like shit. Up to you.
I want a lap dance from my speakers! 😂 Love your videos Thomas. Thanks for another great one.
Thomas my brother , single driver speakers never do the complete trick with modern day recordings , I have a few and they only get used when I am playing my collection of old jazz vinyl , the reason is , back in the day when 80 percent of the people had single speaker systems the recording industry was using also gear that did not record much in the realms of anything below 50 and 14,000 Hertz, that's when I use my single driver speakers . And of course mating them to tube Preamplifier and tube power amplifiers. Each decade as hifi stretched the boundaries from the previous decade is where the recording studios used the reference standard in the type of studio monitors. If you was to set up a sound room , or 2 with different period correct systems and segregation between the music and format of the systems I am sure you will say wow . All my old Decca and other vinyl sounds bad in my modern day equipment. And my modern day recordings do not luster when using my older system. The one size fits all is only good for beautiful big Hawaiian and samoan women wearing moomoo's ,
Years ago I talked to Jean Hiraga, I was going to buy a Treeway monitor ( with triple wirring imposed ) HE recommended that speaker and used it in his demos in Paris with his amplifiers...............Then he said : "This is the closest one can get with a treeway to a single driver and one of my 5 favoured speaker whatever the pricetag........."
Many are building now his old creation / concept of what he called... LE PETIT .........witch uses one very small single driver ........
Todays amplifiers are not build to drive these speakers.......it is a missmatch , these speakers need freedom and no high damping nor heavy NFB and extreme low impedance , the amplifier is responsible for the shouting !!!!!!!!!!!!, today's speakers need current and a kick in the butt, ........another common due to the hype of tubes error is to mary those powerhungry/compressed kind of speakers to tube amplifiers...just like driving a Ferrari in the the dessert offroad or driving an offroad 4X4 on the racing trac...........hifi is a paradigm for most audiophiles................SOME discover the beauty and emotional tuth of music instead of controled and very impressive sounds....that kick in the but but forget that even bass should play the tunes with all their colors and nuances even if the lezvel off impact is not complete or perfect..............
Something you didn't mention is the coherence in tone and texture that is hogneous from tyop tobottom , one material instead of the super berrylium tweeter , gthe polyprop midrange and the grafite bass..........mixture of high end .........intead of coherence of the tone.( the ear is very sensitive to changes related to shifting tonality with freaquencies and phase related problems that are allways part of the game with multi driver speakers )
Nelson Pass also knows the secret !!!!!!!
Yes, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Spot on my friend.
Thank you! I´m very grateful for the great videos that have been posted. These videos hace provided me with knowledge as well as fun.
The incredible content that they offer us. Thanks!👏
You're very welcome!
Thomas telling a story! Now that is novel. Kidding. Love your posts. You are the best audio personality out there on UA-cam. No BS, just straight unadulterated facts. Keep up the outstanding work. All the success with your new amplifier endeavor. Wish I was in the market for another amp. ❤
He does subjective reviews. I like his reviews a lot too. But one cannot call subjective reviews facts - by definition.
@Simplyveej yeah, but subjective preferences on a speaker's sound are factored in the buyer's choice of speaker, so for the careful speaker buyer, they are facts of taste & to be factored in the buyer's decision
Always awesome Thomas!
Thanks again!
Been tracking concentric speakers with low powered valves 'magic' recently; this the best explanation I've found.
Thanks.
Thomas, you are my favorite audio reviewer. This subject of single driver speakers is intriguing, so glad you’re doing it! I’m enjoying my Galion integrated amp immensely, btw.
Glad you are enjoying it!
Great video Thomas. I can feel your confidence emerging in this video.
Lowic owes you lunch.
If he hits 3500 subscriber by end of this month, he will buy me $350 steak!
You are my new favorite reviewer. I can't afford items like this... But your presentations are always giving me goosebumps and tears. Because I understand what you present and can always hear and appreciate the smallest of details that are presented in the changes I make in my humble systems. Thanks so much for your attention to detail and your dedication to the phenomena that is audio.
Best wishes for health and happiness from your new Audio Friend...
Thank you for your support :)
@ThomasAndStereo - First - big viewer of your vids, here.
I was listening to this video of yours in the background, while I was meal prepping, tidying up, and doing a bit of work. I came to sit here at my computer simply to comment that you are very well-spoken; you present information very well - you're a natural. This one was particularly good, so wanted to quickly let you know my thoughts. Back to work I go, now! Cheers!
Wow, thanks for taking the time to do it.
Open Baffle Single Drivers with EL34 flea watt amps are SPECIAL
Well, oddly hearing you stumbling onto the Synergy of these speakers brought on a warm pleasant feeling a sense of joy hard to describe. So, I think IMO you've had pun almost intended a Magic Moment indeed. And I could feel it. As always Thomas thanks for the stories and the revelation's.
Glad you like them!
@@ThomasAndStereo I do, I really do they illuminate the subject nicely. As Music is as much an Auditory experience as it is emotional. And that surprise in your voice and excitement...translated well.
I have my self build LEE AUDIO Speaker on 2 vincent monos with 300 w ...that combo is from another univers. I will try now the risong..i'm will enter the haven. Thanks Thomas 💖
What I learned today? All about the saliva of the singer! Single driver speakers preferring low power amps is a concept I never considered. Thanks for sharing.
Thomas, this review is awesome!
Glad you enjoyed it
I have a pair that look like a copy of a Advent. I think I bought them in the 70’s. They are three way and sound Great for a small speakers. I didn’t know they were still in business. Very good sounding even today.
I love my low watt amps and single driver speakers. Sometimes I long for big power but we can’t have everything.
I'm glad you talked so much about system synergy! It really makes or breaks the single driver speakers. (Talking as one who has been using them for 20+ years). The song demo at the end - this was the one where I could hear the most of the articulation, and subtle details in the singing, the way her mouth formed the words, among all the sound samples you posted. The lap dance's secret might be in the midrange detail level.... ; Cheers, Janos
Yes, you are a wealth of information when it comes to full range driver speakers.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thank you Thomas for your kind words! ✨
Btw - That lap dance analogy at 13:18 made me lol You have to trademark/ market that, somehow. lol
Great review Thomas! I feel like I need to run out and get a low power tube amp and a set of these speakers! To experience this audio magic you’ve just described so artfully and articulately! Thoroughly enjoyed this! Thank you!👍🤗🙏✋
Ah but go listen to a few Full range drivers first to see if it is to your taste. As I said, you either love it or hate it.
I listened the whole week to single driving speakers...and was very surprised we both choose the same 2 speakers
Excelente reseña.
Esas mismas cualidades sónicas las he experimentado con las Lyric Riverside 8, que montan el mismo altavoz que las Lyric Moonriver 8 pero al ser monitores constituyen una alternativa para salas de menor tamaño, y un amplificador Leben CS-300 XS con válvulas NOS EL84 Philips Miniwats. Un sonido fácil, abierto y detallado en el que destacan la inmediatez, el realismo de las voces y la fácil distinción de todos los instrumentos.
Una combinación fabulosa con pequeñas formaciones de Jazz o Vocal y Música de Cámara. Pero también muy buena con otros géneros musicales en teoría menos afines.
Creo que en el mismo rango de precio, incluso superior, es muy complicado encontrar competidoras a las Lyric si disponemos de un amplificador de bajo vatiaje.
Saludos
I remember twenty years ago I got a free old Grundig Hifi console from the thift store that had a stereo pair of german fullranges and a EL84 Telefunken amp inside.
At the time, my experience was with mid-fi NAD and Paradigm speakers, good in their own right.
But I remember listening to the grundig late one night at low volume with some big band music. I closed my eyes and my brain didn’t need ANY convincing that I was listening to the band on stage, in real life as I stood near the back of an empty music hall.
I keep coming back to that memory when the pursuit of better bass or more detail sometime take me where I don’t want to go.
Your assessment of single drivers matches my experience with KJF's Super Pencils housing Mark Audio Alpaire 12P. Well put, thanks for articulating. I really like them, but wish the versatility matched the sheer size of them. They are kind of big to have in the house considering the narrow use-case. I have stand mounts that can play anything as the compliment.
When I hooked the A12 up to my Cornwalls, it was the first time I actually enjoyed it.
Really! Good to know.
I will be getting Cornwall IVs soon. Besides A12 what other amps do you like with Cornwalls?
@@klepp19 Audio Note Ongaku
I had a pair of Cain&Cain single driver Horn speakers that I drove with an Art Audio Diavolo SET amp
There were some nights that I would listen to music until the sun would start to raise. The sound was very realistic with vocal artists.
The image of "Singer giving you a lap dance..." is a disturbing thought while listening to Pavarotti. ;-P
HAHAHA
😮😂😅😊
Hi Thomas, Nice! I especially liked you reasoning as to why higher power amps don't work and low power amps did. I have heard the same thing happen with other speaker amp combos. Amp power ist a two edged sword. I have looked for more power and less for low power amps. If you listen for how amp power changes sonic performance of base (stands out) but also mids, high frequencies und the way they interact. This tell you alot about the speaker and is helpful when searching for the right amp because you know what to look for. Cheers 🙋♂️
Excellent review and thanks for your excellent contributions.
I have experienced these same sonic qualities with the Lyric Riverside 8, which have the same speaker as the Lyric Moonriver 8 but, being monitors, they constitute an alternative for smaller rooms, and a Leben CS-300 XS amplifier with NOS EL84 Philips Miniwats tubes. . An easy, open and detailed sound in which the immediacy, the realism of the voices and the easy distinction of all the instruments stand out.
A fabulous combination with small groups of Jazz or Vocal and Chamber Music. But it's also very good with other musical genres that are theoretically less related.
I think that in the same price range, or even higher, it is very difficult to find competitors to the Lyric if we have a low wattage amplifier.
Regards
Nice, did you pair it with a sub?
I have been listening to an effort to re-invent the Mitsubishi diatone single driver speakers with a cayin 300b amp with old stock tubes and some wiring upgrades and an old pair of dbox subs also with some wiring work. I really enjoy them the only thing I have to agree with is I feel the speakers have a bit too much upper mid presence when the subs wake up to where they sound good.
The PSvane EL34 absolutely transformed my amp. My amp was already the best I've heard with the exception of Air Tight
Great job Thomas as always. I am using Monos Single ended triode class A zero feedback Amplifiers. Yes, Single ended tubes triode’s are holy grail. My speaker, Single driver cube AUDIO Nenuphar 10”.
Good stuff!
Excellent presentation. I learned a lot.
It would be interesting to add a quick screen shot of a spectral analysis from the seating position when discussing speakers. This is what I hear, and this is what the in room frequency response looks like. Sound demo was pretty good. Lacks some bass authority but not bad at all.
Nelson Pass did a lot of work with leading single driver speakers on open baffles. Lowther, Audio Nirvana and so exotic field coil drivers. He paired them with a big woofer for bass re enforcement and played with a slot loaded baffle in the bass. High praise for Li Song if he uses them in his personal system given what he has on hand to choose from.
Yeah, that would be cool, I already have a mic setup.
I recall reading a thread on DIYAudio where Nelson praised the Lii drivers..... It might have been the Crystal-10's though can't remember exactly which model.
I know this is outside of this. I was trying to look for Loic’s channel? Thank you lol😊
Hificave
As I was watching I began thinking maybe this speaker would be a good match for the Willsenton R300. You shot that one down. That's OK. I'll begin working on that "lap dance" effect. Great review. Thanks Thomas.
It still sounds good, in fact, it has a more 'full sound' than the others. Some will prefer it way over the lean sound with the other amps I was talking about.
Yeah, a great example of hearing the emotion in vocals I have heard in the Led Zeppelin 2 Album. I got a first UK pressing and the nuances I could hear in the voice made a huge difference. I can hear the cheekiness and relaxed character of Robert Plant singing. All I can hear in the Crappy remasters is a song and someone singing. But there is a whole other layer. They really need to do remasters from from the vinyl records when the master tapes are approaching 50 years old and lost the micro details and dynamics
For use with a Decware Zen SE84, I searched and found an approach under $1000, requiring the support of a 15" powered sub with a variable low-pass:
Decware-modded Fostex 96 dB, 8 ohm 20 cm so-called 'full-range' FE206E in long stand-mount boxes. No crossover, sub filling below 160Hz. Fed a 4V signal from a balanced DAC, through the Zen, these, toed-in so as to cross just in front of the listening position do, indeed, produce goose bump-inducing imaging with not-overly-complex music: jazz, electronica, R&B.
That said, I have no illusions about this flea-watt amp having great SINAD, but removing any crossover losses and supporting single driver with powered subs seems to be the key.
The cabinet of the Lyric Moon River 8 gets you LF performance without a sub! I'm glad you tried lower-powered to discover the ideal match.
Great review thanks Thomas!! Although I don’t own that pair of the reviewed single driver speakers or amp, I’ve had/own several pairs of single driver Omega Loudspeakers. My home office system has a pair of Louis’s stand mounts powered by a modified Elekit 8200 power amp, (resistors, caps and lundahl output transformers etc.) and the matching modded pre with surprise, surprise Sofia El34 output tubes. My main system has a pair of large Omega floor standing speakers powered by a modded Elekit 8600VK 300B and and Sunvalley (part of Toyota!) pre amp. Both these systems combined owe me a small fraction of others I’ve owned over the years and for me, there is any going back. HI-FI on. Budget and smiles in abundance 😊
Yup, some of the Omega speakers I have owned are great.
This is because output tube compensate for the high impedance variation with frequency. When the impedance of the driver rises, the power dissipated in the tube (resistance of the tube) is reduced so that more power is delivered to the drive through the OT. The opposite is true for ss amp.
It was awesome to see the Lyric went through the trials on so many amplifiers. Thanks for a great videos Thomas.
My pleasure!
Real nice review Thomas! - Those eureka moments are so satisfying aren't they?. I loved listening to a pair of vintage Tannoy Super Red SRM 15X's back in the day. I'm sure you're aware but Tannoy is remaking their single driver Heritage Line in case you were looking for some more single driver speakers. 😀
Oh I did not know, thanks.
Those aren’t true single wide band “full range” driver speakers, but dual concentric that use a crossover.
You'd have thought they'd done everything short of having "Nelson Pass Eddition" written boldly across the speaker's lower black frontage.
P.S. Maybe some folk think you returned from your favourite live concerts covered in the singer's spit, but i always got the 'saliva' reference, especially with female vocalists where you hear every nuance of her voice as if she is in singing right in front of you, to you.
I have the Reisong A-12 and in a week or so the Willsenton 300b will be delivered, hopefully. I'll make note of this speaker and when my budget allows consider it. As far as ordering it I checked the manufactures website and it doesn't seem to be set up for ordering to the USA. Only European addresses.
Email Lii song Canada.
You should try out the Emmo F6. I’m a big fan of these with a low power tube amp.
I'd be super curious to see you (attempt) to review something like the Cube Audio Nenuphar.
How to make FR drivers not only sparkle...but beat tweeters!
Get a cheap FR driver without a wizzer cone and with a stationary fixed phase plug. Or remove both the wizzer and the dust cap (if ithe driver has them). Next step. With a razer blade, carefull slit the cone, 3 mm ftom the center. With slits about 8mm long...but with 5mm gaps that are NOT cut. But on the cuts, cut right through the cone!. Also repeat the process 1 cm from the center. You won't believe what you are hearing! Better than a tweeter. Cones seem to not be affected (structurally) at all! 😅 Best point source musical EXPERIENCE!
I love horns and single driver speakers
Do a video comparison between single driver speakers and coaxials (like the KEFs).
Nice Review !
Could you review the all new Steinway Lyngdorf Model A Speaker System ? 😇
The old saying having to do more with less. It is amazingly hard to do. Single driver especially. I have heard these types before, but it is nice, just wasn't for me. But some of my buddies are in love with them. $3000.00 is commitment money. There are allot choices there from many. Single driver is nice for no time alignment issues of many drivers. I think you pay allot for these for the engineering. Nelson Pass is about the First Watt thing isn't he? He made some sweet amplifiers. I still can't own one. I can believe the post elsewhere that Neslon Pass helped made single driver sound great. You talk about siliva and breath. All of that can be taken out in editing. Another professional sound person talks about that all the time taking out lip smacks and breathing, and siliva so you listen in this case to the spoken word. Same software that is applied to music. I think it is one of the times the human can just be celebrated for the music. Odd, you leave out the breaths, siliva, and have just the music. Heresy? Could be. I prefer some Eq. Proper gain matching, and just dump the thing onto 1/4 inch half track at 15ips, or 30ips. Yes, tape! I guess it depends where you are. I am both digital and analog, even though my work is digital, but my enjoyment is analog. Proof, a 1970s TEAC A-7300 being slowly restored to its glory days. I want a 2 track able to run at 15ips, and get the one Master Tape and be done with it already.
Nice, thanks for the long feedback, appreciate it.
Thomas is actually saying he " approves " the detail of hearing the saliva and the breath.
I'd personally speculate that the "lovers" are more sensitive to phase shift than other listeners - no crossover, zero phase shifting - at least in the realm of the crossover - of course I get that undoubtedly there's more to the story, but I'd bet that's one of the major reasons for the "cult" thing.
Mr Spock would say ' On Vulcan my ears capture more air '
I had Audiostatic ES-100 electrostats . They sounded wow for mid and high & enormous airy . However they were a pain in the a ...for cleaning , they captured dust not only on the static parts but also dust placed itself around the speakers even on the wall behind , placement was not easy , you needed a sub and you had to watch out with a constant 5000volt load . For years I was determined to sell them & every time I heard them I changed my mind . Finally after 25 years I did sold them & still regret it.
I would definite like to hear at one point some Tannoy single driver speakers , since so many Japanese audiophiles are crazy about them . Except , they are beyond my reach , even for Mr Spock.
i always wonder with these comparisons, if the shape of the ear is ever considered. If I fold my ears towards the music just a little bit with my fingers, I hear much more mid-and upper range. Even the slightest move, influences the sound greatly.
This is a very good observation most don’t consider.
Full range drivers retain all their strengths and lose the shoutiness when an appropriate notch filter is applied. Audio Nirvana drivers - the exact same ones as in your 10k pair as pictured - have plenty of deep, warm bass and a balanced, natural sound with the right filter.
Please explain "approiate notch filter is applied". more detail on this process. I also have these Audio Nirvana drivers.
@@tedschlaebitz8734 you need a step baffle loss filter to tame the upper range firstly. also you would need to measure the response imo as each cabinet will affect the frequency. i owned the 8's and the 12's... they are good but they need crossovers to play louder. the baffle step filter is cheap to make and you can vary the components to get it right any way
@@tedschlaebitz8734 3rd time I try to post a reply, I cannot see it for some reason. Google parallel notch filter to see how it’s done. Tha values I use: Coil: 0.9 mH; Cap: 1.0 uF; Resistor: 22 Ohm. To avoid misunderstandings: the 3 parts are wired together in parallel and the whole little circuit is connected in line with the red speaker cable.
@@veroman007
Thanks for the reply.
@@gaborozorai3714 Don't use any links, UA-cam for some strange reason might delete the comment.
One of the sets I regret letting go I'd like to have back, had some omega hemptone 8s, they were very very good, the finish was called arctic blue, could've lived with those if I had to.
I had some Omega speakers before, some were great.
Don't think I've ever heard that "lap dance" effect. Cant wait till I do Lol! Got a new goal.
Thanks Thomas , I agree with your statement that you never know until you try , One of the greatest tools an Audiophile can have is an 'OPEN MIND'
Also my dude Loki be putting in Work
✔ him out Every 1 !!
P.S. I can't believe Mr 'Pearl Accoustics' 😆 Mentioned 'Chasing the Dragon' CD 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥
Synergy between components is critical. Obvious but not always considered when putting a system together.
hi Thomas and happy new year, I have had a pair of mark audio 10 P full range, and for a while, I have noticed that they sound great with a warm amp, I am using a quad 303 and a passive amp, and I bought on of that little tube buffer and used it with the Ss quad 303 and it did sound nicer. To get the best out of full range you need a decent tube and maybe an SS. also it has no cross-overs so there is no interference, for vocals and jazz they rely on This is what I planning to do, I have been advised to buy one from Ali express which is very gd. if anyone wants the name of it let me know.
Have you tryed the Closer acoustics ogy standmount speaker singel driver speaker? if so how does they stack up to thies?.
Single driver speakers are great for some types of music. But.. if you have an amp with sub section, perfect (for example raven tube amps)
The effect of the Risong sounding better may be due to the impedance matching better to the LiiSong drivers. I would like to know if these speakers have a crossover inside? Many single drivers need a filter to balance out the response. Thanks. Great review as usual.
I think Nelson Pass designed a filter for it.
Nice video. The secret may lie in the speakers suspension, cone material and the lack of power and GNFB in the Reisong A12
Thanks, yeah it could be.
Thonas I am waiting for you to get a set of Cube speakers/drivers (I would prefer the latter with a DIY TQWP or full Voight Pipe) or at least some alternatives to Lii Song good a value as they may be
Single driver speakers are suitable for a certain genre of music. Nina Simone will sound supreme. She has excellent recorded vocals. A good tube amp will make her alive
Excellent video and review - thanks so much for this, Thomas. Have you tried this with any of Nelson's First Watt amplifiers? I'm fairly certain he would have "tuned" the Lii speaker with one or more of these.
I'm a big fan of single-driver speakers, and in line with your observations, I listen to a lot of chamber music, violin, and other acoustic music. I'm running Audio Nirvana Classic 12's with a First Watt J2, but it's always a fight to get the "shout" minimized. I'm curious if his EQ "baffle step" is internal to the speaker, or if it's added between the pre amp and power amp since it appears to have RCA connectors on it.
Ah, I have not tried and am curious too.
I just got a pair of Betsy Baffles from Caintuck Audio. They use the same LII Audio Fast 8 drivers. Paired to a Cary CAD--300SEI the sound is glorious. Do you think I should try them with my Pass Labs XA-25 ??
Sorry, no idea.
Thomas, very interesting review! Think these speakers would sing with low wattage Decware's? Thanks
Yes I do.
I wonder how the Lyrics would sound with a First Watt Class A solid state amp. Many of those are low wattage amps….and designed by….Nelson Pass!
Lap dance would be a good name for a speaker
It's called "face time" (Not iPhone). I prepare people when they are going to experience my system that not only will it sound like the artist is in front of them, but if they close their eyes, they will see a face. That you can hear the lips, tongue, ... But that's a Nelson Pass amp into Maggies!
Hey Thomas, love your videos. If you could only have one pair of speakers, needed them to be high efficiency, and a budget of $5000 cad, would it be these or the Klipsch heresy iv
Completely different sound. Also check out the Klipsch Forte 4. These are more for a niche market where you have to love that 'unique' midrange that is produced by single driver, while Klipsch is more for the mass. You either fall in love with single driver or hate it.
have you matched spl when you compared different amps?
Omega super alnico high output monitors + Elekit TU-8200R single ended triode with Lundahl output transformers - that is my choice.
Off the subject of single driver speakers, but still on the subject of "speakers" can you possibly review the Polk Reserve R700 for everyone Thomas? They are becoming a speaker that is exceedingly difficult to get your hands on. Possibly best Floorstanding speakers under $5K? Greatly respect your opinion and I seriously enjoy all of your reviews my friend! Respectfully, Joseph
Thomas did you try with the Union Research we see on the video?
No I did not as I no longer have it.
Thomas, in regard to single driver speakers, have you considered the Zu Audio single driver speakers? Yes, I know that in many of their configurations there is a super tweeter. But it’s only a super tweeter and would help with the generally problematic top end. One thing though, is their single big driver actually a single driver or two concentric drivers? I thought it was worth a mention since it’s configuration may be in the “ballpark”. Plus they are very 90+dB efficient? What do you think?
I had 2 sets of Zu audio before and had made a video on it. I like them but need a sub for those.
I am currently doing a free trial of the zu audio dirty weekends. They aren't the standard single driver speaker as they have a super tweeter separate from the main driver which takes over at 12K hertz. Guess that is to avoid the limited high end issues of single driver designs. I cannot give a full evaluation at this time as the speakers need decoupling so my room can handle the deep bass. I think the treble is actually pretty nice as it seems accurate without the edginess of other speakers I have tried.
I think some Zu speakers are coaxial design as opposed to single driver. Very different, perhaps check with them to see what it is.
@@ThomasAndStereo there is just the single main driver which handles everything up to the crossover for the super tweeter. This is the dirty weekend. I don't know about their other designs
If you get hold of a zu speaker, I would love to hear your impressions. Outside of Steve Guttenberg, I have not seen any thorough reviews. My first impressions are: the super tweeter avoids the issues you spoke of. Treble is clear, present, precise. The bass is very rich. Great for male voices, cellos,... The mid-range may be a little congested, not as much definition as some other speakers. Best with smaller groups, well recorded. But it's early. I need to decouple my speakers from the floor as the bass can get the room shaking. Which I kind of like!
@@lsaideOK ua-cam.com/video/Pqw7WRnItT0/v-deo.html
@@ThomasAndStereo Ha! That was fast! Definitely thorough. Funny that you mentioned needing to tilt it. I actually emailed zu about that. I extended the front screws as far as I could but that didn't give enough tilt. Do you know of something I can add to the bottom of the speaker to safely give it more tilt? I would also like to raise it a few inches as the main driver sits at 31 in. The super Tweeter below that.
I disagree with much of what you said which may come down to three things. One, amplification. I am using the Yamaha s801 which audio science review also rates as very good. In pure direct mode, the speaker sounds pretty thin. But turning that off all of a sudden the bass was powerful. Lots of rattling. Zu spokespeople I heard recommend tubes. They are very efficient with 8 ohm impedance rising to 12. 98 db sensitivity supposedly. Second, my dirty weekends are a new generation so they may have adjusted the sound. I got their superfly upgrade and the house cables they say gets the most out of the speakers. Third, is the subjectivity. To my ears they go lower than any other speaker I've had at my house. Considerably deeper than the BW 702 s2s rated to 46 Hz I believe. Zu says placement is not important but I have noticed big changes playing around with that. I now have them as wide as I can in my space. That has made a positive difference. A very slight toe-in. So would love it if you can get your hands on one of their recently released models. I am just beginning my free trial so these are just first impressions. Things should change as early as tomorrow when I get the footers!
Hi Thomas, great review. I'm not sure if you already answered this or not but how do these speakers compare to the Pearl Acoustics Sibelius?
The Sibelius does not sound like a single driver so it has more mid bass. That speaker is like you are listening to an orchestra while this one is like you are listening to just a person.
I think the older we get, our mind tend to get away from the low and start to move in to more of mid and high. Just a thought.
The lii song silver 10 or 8 inch with cabinet speakers even better driver can 300B or 2A3 amp 8-13w beautifully
15:20 Maybe he simply added a crossover filter thing. Like an inductor, a resistor and cap all in parallel. Easy!
Thanks for your insights Thomas…noticed you are using the Gustard R26 in playing your sound demos, is this your go to dac now? Have you done a review video on it, I can’t find one?
Thanks from Marc in Ottawa…
Depends on the amp, video coming soon.
Looking forward to your review of the R26…
Great video! I'm sure you can't play them as loud as a 3 or 4 driver speaker. But for mids will probably be incredible. Will be good for vocal audiophile kind of music I am sure.
You u do a review on Cube audio , AER Audio open range single driver .. they are top of the game
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Yes, I heard them at a show, good.
This isn't any surprise to me. I've typically found higher powered amps sound very poor with high efficiency full range drivers, on the other hand many lower powered tube amps sound stunning. The only solid state amplification combo that has blown me away is the Absolute Audio Labs ASL-1Z preamplifier + SIT-A15 power amp. Just stunning and pretty powerful at 15WPC compared to many of the nicer sounding DHT SET amps out there. It's the only solid state pre/amp combination which hasn't left me wanting more vs a nice DHT SET and sounds stunning paired with Lii Song Fieke S6 speakers + a sub for deep pbss. Eventually the speakers + sub will be displaced by Lii Song Platinum-10 based speakers once Lii have perfected cabinets to get the best from them. To be fair though these will be MASSIVE cabinets which dwarf the Lii Origin-10's ;)
Thanks for sharing.
Thomas, are you aware of any single driver speakers made in the US or Canada? Other than well established overseas speaker builders that have US located dealers and/or repair facilities, im a bit concerned about getting large speakers from europe or asia that might not provide the support needed for repairs.
Hi Thomas, are you gonna review Bowers and Wilkins 801 D4?
Nah, I am not cool enough for them to send me one.
You're literally coolest reviewer.
I hope they send you someday.
Edit additional text: Dali Opticon 8 MK2 i like those speakers, if you can review them that be cool video too.
So - what did Nelson Pass do to improve the speakers? Is it a filter of some sort - the images show a small circuit board?
Some kind of high pass filter I think.
@@ThomasAndStereo I share your reservations about single driver speakers. The treble is *always* going to be narrow dispersion; because when the wavelength gets shorter than the size of the driver, they get beamy.
Mass is the enemy of treble - tweeters are fractions of a gram. So the better single drivers lower the mass as much as possible, and add the whizzer cone on larger units. But lower mass means less damping and stiffness - which leads to the third challenge; which is breakup modes. And I think this is where the "shoutiness" comes from?
And maybe what Nelson Pass made is a notch filter to lower the breakup mode?
Looks more complex than necessary, but it should be a notch filter or baffle step compensation or both.
@@gaborozorai3714 You're probably correct - it's hard to say for sure.
@@NeilBlanchard Full range drivers, especially larger ones are designed so that there is a deliberate lossiness or flex between the centre and the outer parts of the diaphragm so that the whole big cone does not have to try to do the high frequencies. The upper mid peak does still exist but can be easily and effectively filtered.
I wonder what they would sound like with a Decware amp?
I bet super amazing because one of the complain about Decware is it is not dynamic enough with normal speakers. With these, it will be the right balance.
Decware likes them so much he sells Lii Audio on his website.
Thomas, What do you mean by the term "shouty"? Is that a harsh upper midrange similar to digital glare?
Create a horn shape with you hands infront of your mouth and talk like that. Also, yes a bit of glare too.
Hi Thomas, I know that you have also heard the Origin S-10 from the same company; how would you compare the two speakers ?
Yes I did, man that one is tough. I heard the S10 with the Decware amp and it sounded amazing but it was in our Liisong room at the Toronto audio show. The environment did not give me a chance to listen carefully. I would say the Lyric was more 'normal' while the S10 was more bigger sounding. I did not hear the same level of transparency with the S10 BUT keep in mind, it was in a busy room with so many things happening.
Hello Thomas, I know this is off topic. However I have a question for you please: I am a huge fan of Lii Audio, and I am in the process of building my fifth project which will be my first OB with the Platinum 10 and W-12. I may be going with the Leonidas baffle. However, I have been reading reviews on the new Magnepan LRS + and I live what I have read and what I have heard in terms of the demo.
My questions to you are the following: Can you please indicate the differences between the two: Leonidas vs the LRS?
Can your Galion TS120 premium drive the Magnepan LRS+?
Well, in terms of bass, the w12 will destroy the Magnepan. It really is a big difference in presentation. The ts120 can drive the lrs but for me, you don't buy a tube amp to drive magnepan, there are better choices out there. The Ts120 can definitely drive the OB you are building.
@@ThomasAndStereo dang it! Lol. That’s not what I was hoping to hear. I like the slimness of the Magnepan in terms of space occupancy. Nonetheless, it’s all about quality sound so it seems like the OB with Lii drivers win. Thank you very much for your answer.
As for the amp, I do have the Decware UFO 25 the anniversary amp which I love. HoweverI will be buying your amp for my new build as my decware amp may not be able to drive my new build. Thank you once again for taking time to respond.
@@ThomasAndStereo one more question. Earlier you stated, “it really is a big difference in presentation.” Which has a better and bigger presentation? Are you saying the Leonidis will have a bigger presentation? Or the LRS +?
@Alex Iheaka I never AB test them in my room side by side so I don't know. From memory, both are comparable.
@@ThomasAndStereo what I was I was asking for clarification was in your first response you said the following, “it really is a big difference in presentation.” Can you please explain?
Have you heard of Cube Audio? I suggest given their top model(s), the Nenuphars a listen. Prepare yourself for a sonic revelation.
Only at an audio show, sounded good.
Please listen to the Closer Acoustics OGY. The bang for the buck is insane. And none of the typical single driver issues.
what's so good about the Acoustics OGY
@@hamzatatta952 Midrange and bass (considering the size). The tonality is shockingly good. They just lack a bit of dynamics for orchestra music.
I bet they would sound great with a Decware Amp...
I 100% agree.