I have not heard the Encores. However, the Encores are small bookshelf speakers, and they match very very different systems than my speakers do. Performance-wise: I think that's a moot subject. The question is always which is the one you like more... Knowing my preferences, for me anything that's less than 91dB/Wm is unacceptable - unable to resolve low level details, dynamic contrasts, and presents a dead / uninvolving midrange. Can still produce a wide frequency band, play loud, but without the rest it's not my cup of tea.
I built “the world's second best speakers” to specifications. I am absolutely amazed and happy with these “Voigt Pipes”. They now replaced my brand name $15K speakers as reference. Highly recommended along with the specified Tangband drivers.
Hi Janos, it totally makes sense that a home build speaker of $200,- can not compete against a factory product of $8000,- But a one to one comparison is tilting the plying field to the opposite direction. You have to account for fit and finish, the manufacturing cost and profit margin stacking (it gets even more complex in reality). So all in all a one to two cost ratio is on average a better approximation, in my opinion. On a similar note, from an economical perspective, full range drivers have a huge cost advantage. Take the example of the Fostex FF125WK that cost around $100,- today (I remember < $70,- but lets not go there). If you want to build a two way speaker with the same budget, you have to buy (lets say) a mid-woofer, a tweeter, two coils, two capacitors; two resisters and a PCB or a turret board or similar. Those are nine components. That is about $11,00 a piece on average. of course you can play with the ratio to buy cheap resisters and capacitors and a bit more expensive tweeters but if you stay in budget it will be heavily compromised. So in reality a two way speaker build is likely to simply blow the budget. And that is before you get to build it and find out it is an order of magnitude more complex to get it right (provided you design it your self). So I think, as beginner, you are better off building a few very different cabinets with full range drivers than two similar cabinets to compare multi way speakers and full range drivers. If you want to experience a two way speaker and have not yet (which is very unlikely for those visiting this channel) you could also buy a cheap second hand speaker to compare your full range speaker build with, and to mod. Second hand prices are often pennies on the dollar.
Great video that give us beginning builders proper perspective. I would also add that just like multi-way speakers, single driver speakers can sound quite different from each other. You might try a Fostex in a sealed cabinet and not like it, but a Mark Audio in a reflex might be your thing (or visa versa.)
I have a home built aperiodic transmission line cabinet for a 8" aurel bryan driver. It's really amazing because the bass measures down to 30htz. They are aperodic because they have filtered venting behind the driver for dipole low mids to propagate. I recently picked up a model of lii audio called music-8. It's a alnico5 magnet. The speaker weighs 14 pounds each. Paper cones sound so good. The alnico5 has the sweetest hi end. I am going to make a baffle overlay and try them in the aurel bryan cabinets and see how they do. I also have plans for folded horns style cabinet as a option. That flux density is amazing for dynamics and detail sounds from the alnico5 make for a exceptional listening experience. The music-8'are only available from China on ali Express. Very good drivers.
I’ve built dozens of speaker enclosures for different types of designs. Pipes, giant backloaded double horns,ported and sealed etc.Some are my original designs, some are from existing designs. I am a big fan of high efficiency full range drivers. Some have sounded amazing, some quite terrible. The worst have been from others designs. All that to say, just because a design is out there, and there are build guides to follow, do your research before you dive into a project. Nothing worse than spending tine, money a effort building something that ends up sounding terrible. Now, when you invest the time, money and effort into a build, and it works as you had hoped, that’s an amazing feeling! Just do a lot of research before jumping into any build.
I made some speakers for $500 and took them to the hifi shop for evaluating. He was blown away and his friend who sells high end stuff also really liked them! 😅 Cos they were single drivers and were point source. Plus a host of other acoustic tricks to help the sound. 😅
I was told 20 years ago from a sound engineer that the speakers were built together that cost $800.00 plus another 150 for the cabs were equivalent to speakers costing 3500-5000 Dollars. Those speakers have stood the test of time
?? is this sarcasm or can you explane it please? working hours + listening/testing hours + when they are also sleeping and dreming about speakers?? Regarding on my informations, for example, Andrew Jones did not need so much hours to develop Mofi's Source point speakers... not even close. Harley L. developed - tuned his Sibelius speakers in three years. But this does not mean he worked on speakers 26.280 hours :))
@@majtextwriter1794 not sarcasm Most loudspeaker systems designers have 15+ years of experience and work with others with similar or more experience. Development by a team can take several years to produce a product, taking thousands of hours of research, test and development by each individual to accomplish a quality product. You provided an example of a loudspeaker with a short research to manufacture cycle. Below is an example of what it takes to develop and manufacture a real non coincident system that is just good enough to be used in the media creation process and has helped to produce some of the best sounding audio we have all listened to. Any individual could create an excellent single driver system, preferably in a sealed enclosure, that could outperform most commercial system in midrange sound quality and have the smoothest KA of any system ever made. However if limited bandwidth does not auditorily and haptically satisfy then a non coincident multi-driver array system that takes time delay, phase, group delay, KA and roughness and many other parameter into account are only the basics required to avoid making a system that has a wide bandwidth but sounds lacking. Why do you think their are more designs than people on the planet, because guessing in a multivariate environment leads to dissatisfaction and rolling and swapping components in the hopes that random chance will yield sonic integrity. A HISTORY OF YAMAHA STUDIO REFERENCE MONITORS OF HIT RECORDS AND LOYAL USERS. Everyone wants to win a Grammy Award®, but when a speaker wins one, you know you’re onto something. That’s exactly what the venerable Yamaha NS-10 achieved when it garnered a Technical Grammy® in 2007. A mainstay in countless recording studios for more than four decades, these beloved white-coned monitors continue to be a force to this day. But the line of Yamaha reference monitors includes more than just the NS-10. Let’s take a look at the long history behind them. WHERE IT ALL STARTED The NS-10 was first launched in 1978 …
@@majtextwriter1794 since you provided an example of a design with a short design to market cycle, I will provide an example of a real non coincident system. How many hundreds of thousands of hours has Yamaha spent on these designs since the 1970? A HISTORY OF YAMAHA STUDIO REFERENCE MONITORS OF HIT RECORDS AND LOYAL USERS. Everyone wants to win a Grammy Award®, but when a speaker wins one, you know you’re onto something. That’s exactly what the venerable Yamaha NS-10 achieved when it garnered a Technical Grammy® in 2007. A mainstay in countless recording studios for more than four decades, these beloved white-coned monitors continue to be a force to this day. But the line of Yamaha reference monitors includes more than just the NS-10. Let’s take a look at the long history behind them. WHERE IT ALL STARTED The NS-10 was first launched in 1978 …
@@majtextwriter1794 You provided an example of a design with a short research to manufacture cycle, below is an example of what it takes to create a real non coincident driver system and why for any individual building a loudspeaker system a single driver preferably in a sealed cabinet will likely outperform most commercial systems in midrange audio quality and the smoothest KA possible. If you cannot be satisfied auditorily and hapatically by a limited bandwidth you will need a multi-driver system that takes time delay, phase, group delay, KA and many other parameters in a multivariate driver array very seriously and that takes time and tests and research and money and rinse and repeat. A HISTORY OF YAMAHA STUDIO REFERENCE MONITORS OF HIT RECORDS AND LOYAL USERS. Everyone wants to win a Grammy Award®, but when a speaker wins one, you know you’re onto something. That’s exactly what the venerable Yamaha NS-10 achieved when it garnered a Technical Grammy® in 2007. A mainstay in countless recording studios for more than four decades, these beloved white-coned monitors continue to be a force to this day. But the line of Yamaha reference monitors includes more than just the NS-10. Let’s take a look at the long history behind them. WHERE IT ALL STARTED The NS-10 was first launched in 1978 …
@@majtextwriter1794 Most loudspeaker systems designers have 15+ years of experience and work with others with similar or more experience. Development by a team can take several years to produce a product, taking thousands of hours of research, test and development by each individual to accomplish a quality product. You provided an example of a loudspeaker with a short research to manufacture cycle. Below is an example of what it takes to develop and manufacture a real non coincident system that is just good enough to be used in the media creation process and has helped to produce some of the best sounding audio we have all listened to. Any individual could create an excellent single driver system, preferably in a sealed enclosure, that could outperform most commercial system in midrange sound quality and have the smoothest KA of any system ever made. However if limited bandwidth does not auditorily and haptically satisfy then a non coincident multi-driver array system that takes time delay, phase, group delay, KA, roughness and many other parameter into account is a mandatory requirement to avoid making a system that has a wide bandwidth but sounds lacking. Why do you think their are more designs than people on the planet, because guessing in a multivariate environment leads to dissatisfaction and rolling and swapping components in the hopes that random chance will yield sonic integrity. hub.yamaha.com/proaudio/recording/a-history-of-yamaha-studio-reference-monitors/
can your speakers out perform the encores extrems?
I have not heard the Encores. However, the Encores are small bookshelf speakers, and they match very very different systems than my speakers do. Performance-wise: I think that's a moot subject. The question is always which is the one you like more... Knowing my preferences, for me anything that's less than 91dB/Wm is unacceptable - unable to resolve low level details, dynamic contrasts, and presents a dead / uninvolving midrange. Can still produce a wide frequency band, play loud, but without the rest it's not my cup of tea.
I built “the world's second best speakers” to specifications. I am absolutely amazed and happy with these “Voigt Pipes”. They now replaced my brand name $15K speakers as reference. Highly recommended along with the specified Tangband drivers.
Where can i find out about these speakers please?
Hi Janos, it totally makes sense that a home build speaker of $200,- can not compete against a factory product of $8000,- But a one to one comparison is tilting the plying field to the opposite direction. You have to account for fit and finish, the manufacturing cost and profit margin stacking (it gets even more complex in reality). So all in all a one to two cost ratio is on average a better approximation, in my opinion.
On a similar note, from an economical perspective, full range drivers have a huge cost advantage. Take the example of the Fostex FF125WK that cost around $100,- today (I remember < $70,- but lets not go there). If you want to build a two way speaker with the same budget, you have to buy (lets say) a mid-woofer, a tweeter, two coils, two capacitors; two resisters and a PCB or a turret board or similar. Those are nine components. That is about $11,00 a piece on average. of course you can play with the ratio to buy cheap resisters and capacitors and a bit more expensive tweeters but if you stay in budget it will be heavily compromised. So in reality a two way speaker build is likely to simply blow the budget. And that is before you get to build it and find out it is an order of magnitude more complex to get it right (provided you design it your self). So I think, as beginner, you are better off building a few very different cabinets with full range drivers than two similar cabinets to compare multi way speakers and full range drivers. If you want to experience a two way speaker and have not yet (which is very unlikely for those visiting this channel) you could also buy a cheap second hand speaker to compare your full range speaker build with, and to mod. Second hand prices are often pennies on the dollar.
Great video that give us beginning builders proper perspective. I would also add that just like multi-way speakers, single driver speakers can sound quite different from each other. You might try a Fostex in a sealed cabinet and not like it, but a Mark Audio in a reflex might be your thing (or visa versa.)
I have a home built aperiodic transmission line cabinet for a 8" aurel bryan driver. It's really amazing because the bass measures down to 30htz. They are aperodic because they have filtered venting behind the driver for dipole low mids to propagate.
I recently picked up a model of lii audio called music-8. It's a alnico5 magnet. The speaker weighs 14 pounds each. Paper cones sound so good. The alnico5 has the sweetest hi end. I am going to make a baffle overlay and try them in the aurel bryan cabinets and see how they do. I also have plans for folded horns style cabinet as a option. That flux density is amazing for dynamics and detail sounds from the alnico5 make for a exceptional listening experience. The music-8'are only available from China on ali Express. Very good drivers.
Thanks for this. I am definitely someone who loves single drivers in pipes as well as small British monitors. It is hard to live with just one.
I agree, if your favorite color is yellow, it does not mean you dislike red or blue.
I’ve built dozens of speaker enclosures for different types of designs. Pipes, giant backloaded double horns,ported and sealed etc.Some are my original designs, some are from existing designs. I am a big fan of high efficiency full range drivers. Some have sounded amazing, some quite terrible. The worst have been from others designs. All that to say, just because a design is out there, and there are build guides to follow, do your research before you dive into a project. Nothing worse than spending tine, money a effort building something that ends up sounding terrible. Now, when you invest the time, money and effort into a build, and it works as you had hoped, that’s an amazing feeling! Just do a lot of research before jumping into any build.
I made some speakers for $500 and took them to the hifi shop for evaluating. He was blown away and his friend who sells high end stuff also really liked them! 😅 Cos they were single drivers and were point source. Plus a host of other acoustic tricks to help the sound. 😅
I was told 20 years ago from a sound engineer that the speakers were built together that cost $800.00 plus another 150 for the cabs were equivalent to speakers costing 3500-5000 Dollars. Those speakers have stood the test of time
Whats your opinion about dipoles? Some say that same acoustical characteristic towards the back wall gives benefits for the final outcome.
Janos do you like open baffle single drivers?
A warm thank you to my supporters of "Buy Me A Coffee"😅
Do you perform objective measurements ?
Yes, with high tech priceless equipment. Those pieces of equipment are called "ears".
They make for a decent midrange driver...................
real non coincident multi-driver loudspeakers take 80,000 to 150,000 people hours to produce.
?? is this sarcasm or can you explane it please? working hours + listening/testing hours + when they are also sleeping and dreming about speakers??
Regarding on my informations, for example, Andrew Jones did not need so much hours to develop Mofi's Source point speakers... not even close.
Harley L. developed - tuned his Sibelius speakers in three years. But this does not mean he worked on speakers 26.280 hours :))
@@majtextwriter1794 not sarcasm
Most loudspeaker systems designers have 15+ years of experience and work with others with similar or more experience. Development by a team can take several years to produce a product, taking thousands of hours of research, test and development by each individual to accomplish a quality product.
You provided an example of a loudspeaker with a short research to manufacture cycle. Below is an example of what it takes to develop and manufacture a real non coincident system that is just good enough to be used in the media creation process and has helped to produce some of the best sounding audio we have all listened to. Any individual could create an excellent single driver system, preferably in a sealed enclosure, that could outperform most commercial system in midrange sound quality and have the smoothest KA of any system ever made. However if limited bandwidth does not auditorily and haptically satisfy then a non coincident multi-driver array system that takes time delay, phase, group delay, KA and roughness and many other parameter into account are only the basics required to avoid making a system that has a wide bandwidth but sounds lacking. Why do you think their are more designs than people on the planet, because guessing in a multivariate environment leads to dissatisfaction and rolling and swapping components in the hopes that random chance will yield sonic integrity.
A HISTORY OF YAMAHA STUDIO REFERENCE MONITORS
OF HIT RECORDS AND LOYAL USERS.
Everyone wants to win a Grammy Award®, but when a speaker wins one, you know you’re onto something. That’s exactly what the venerable Yamaha NS-10 achieved when it garnered a Technical Grammy® in 2007. A mainstay in countless recording studios for more than four decades, these beloved white-coned monitors continue to be a force to this day.
But the line of Yamaha reference monitors includes more than just the NS-10. Let’s take a look at the long history behind them.
WHERE IT ALL STARTED
The NS-10 was first launched in 1978 …
@@majtextwriter1794 since you provided an example of a design with a short design to market cycle, I will provide an example of a real non coincident system. How many hundreds of thousands of hours has Yamaha spent on these designs since the 1970?
A HISTORY OF YAMAHA STUDIO REFERENCE MONITORS
OF HIT RECORDS AND LOYAL USERS.
Everyone wants to win a Grammy Award®, but when a speaker wins one, you know you’re onto something. That’s exactly what the venerable Yamaha NS-10 achieved when it garnered a Technical Grammy® in 2007. A mainstay in countless recording studios for more than four decades, these beloved white-coned monitors continue to be a force to this day.
But the line of Yamaha reference monitors includes more than just the NS-10. Let’s take a look at the long history behind them.
WHERE IT ALL STARTED
The NS-10 was first launched in 1978 …
@@majtextwriter1794 You provided an example of a design with a short research to manufacture cycle, below is an example of what it takes to create a real non coincident driver system and why for any individual building a loudspeaker system a single driver preferably in a sealed cabinet will likely outperform most commercial systems in midrange audio quality and the smoothest KA possible. If you cannot be satisfied auditorily and hapatically by a limited bandwidth you will need a multi-driver system that takes time delay, phase, group delay, KA and many other parameters in a multivariate driver array very seriously and that takes time and tests and research and money and rinse and repeat.
A HISTORY OF YAMAHA STUDIO REFERENCE MONITORS
OF HIT RECORDS AND LOYAL USERS.
Everyone wants to win a Grammy Award®, but when a speaker wins one, you know you’re onto something. That’s exactly what the venerable Yamaha NS-10 achieved when it garnered a Technical Grammy® in 2007. A mainstay in countless recording studios for more than four decades, these beloved white-coned monitors continue to be a force to this day.
But the line of Yamaha reference monitors includes more than just the NS-10. Let’s take a look at the long history behind them.
WHERE IT ALL STARTED
The NS-10 was first launched in 1978 …
@@majtextwriter1794
Most loudspeaker systems designers have 15+ years of experience and work with others with similar or more experience. Development by a team can take several years to produce a product, taking thousands of hours of research, test and development by each individual to accomplish a quality product.
You provided an example of a loudspeaker with a short research to manufacture cycle. Below is an example of what it takes to develop and manufacture a real non coincident system that is just good enough to be used in the media creation process and has helped to produce some of the best sounding audio we have all listened to. Any individual could create an excellent single driver system, preferably in a sealed enclosure, that could outperform most commercial system in midrange sound quality and have the smoothest KA of any system ever made. However if limited bandwidth does not auditorily and haptically satisfy then a non coincident multi-driver array system that takes time delay, phase, group delay, KA, roughness and many other parameter into account is a mandatory requirement to avoid making a system that has a wide bandwidth but sounds lacking. Why do you think their are more designs than people on the planet, because guessing in a multivariate environment leads to dissatisfaction and rolling and swapping components in the hopes that random chance will yield sonic integrity.
hub.yamaha.com/proaudio/recording/a-history-of-yamaha-studio-reference-monitors/