DIY Disaster or Masterpiece? | Lii Song Silver 8
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- Опубліковано 15 лип 2024
- Join us as we delve into an unexpected journey with the Lii Song Silver 8 speakers. Experience the highs and lows, the challenges and triumphs of this fascinating acoustic adventure.
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0:00 Intro
2:44 Sound Quality PT 1
4:16 Measurements
5:05 Sound Quality PT 2
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#diyaudio #diy #liisong - Наука та технологія
Those cabinets were never going to work with these drivers.
I think the general rule is that lean class D amps paired with hi-efficiency speakers tend to result in harshness. In addition, class D amps exhibit rising high frequencies with 8 ohm loads, to exacerbate the problem. Therefore, softer, richer tube amps tend to be the solution, bringing out the best in both. A friend of mine had great sound success marrying low power tube amps with his Altec VOTTs, Klipsch LaScala and Tannoy speakers over the years.
I believe it was a Lii speaker driven with a Thomas & Stereo tube amp that sounded so impressive at the 2022 Toronto Audio show.
The box looks to be a cube, that is the worst shape. It is common knowledge that to minimize unbraced box resonances the ideal ratio of internal dimensions is 3:4:5.
It's not a cube.
I purchased the Lii Audio F-15 as an experiment to make something like the Deckware Zen Master. At first they sounded harsh but really detailed. They took quite a while to simmer down. The 15" drivers roll off quick at 50hz and lacked deep bass. The mid bass was dynamic and powerful (punchy). These drivers DEFINITELY do not like solid state amplifiers. They DON'T play well with amps over 50 watts. After 6 months of play in an open baffle design they smoothed way out. Then when combined with the W-15 bass driver they became spectacular in a bi wire configuration. I would not like to listen to their 8" drivers without a subwoofer knowing how the 15" rolls off. Try a tube amp, I'm using a Primaluna 35 watt with a Crown amp for the bass.
To be fair, I never saw a design of squared shaped loudspeakers ever work...
This is true, if you take a look at Lii songs speakers they use very large enclosures.
Hello friend
If Lii Song really told you to make this box ok. (But this small box project is not listed on the manufacturer's website and for sure will give the worst of them)
However... the right thing was to make a box with at least 100 liters of internal volume and preferably BLH...
It's a wonderful speaker... of incredible purity... try the right way with the models that appear on the manufacturer's website.
Please... be fair and give them a nice try.
I have Fast 8 and Silver 8... besides many others...
And de Fast and Silver 8 are amazing speakers.
I'd agree. It's like forgetting that cabinet design has anything to do with it. It has a ton to do with it.
Do you think they'd work in an open baffle?
Most if not all speakers need a baffle step circuit to bring the bass back up. You can also try not toeing them inwards to help reduce the shrill.
Thank you so much for sharing such important info! Much appreciated!
Yup, that is how single drivers speakers are, it is an art to get them to sound good. I personally find the standmount version hardest to get right because it lacks bass, and that exaggerates the highs and mids further. I warned Liisong Canada single driver speakers are for a niche market. I call it the durian speaker, you either love it hate it, there is no in between.
I was hoping for the best. Thanks for sharing! Would love to chat sometime.
@@mykandrewIf you are interested in giving the TS120 a try, let me know.
You need a crossover with a full range, then you can tweek - rolloff or notch filter frequencies.
You have a very professional sounding voice, one that everyone can enjoy. A good command of our language. When you curse, like dropping "F" bombs it totally ruins the professional feel. Not bashing you just would like you to think on it. Enjoy your videos! Thanks
Thank you for your feedback. It's truly appreciated. I understand your concern about the language used in my videos. I aim to maintain authenticity in my channel and present my genuine self. I believe that there are numerous channels that follow a more conventional, politically correct style of communication, and while that certainly has its place, I don't feel it reflects who I truly am.
If I were to limit my expression, it would, to me, feel as though I'm not being completely honest with my audience, and that's not the sort of relationship I want to foster. It has always been my intention to venture beyond the conventional norms to 'color outside the lines', so to speak. My goal is to create content that's real, raw, and relatable. I hope you understand my perspective and continue to support my channel.
long burn in, low damping factor amp and some kind of transmission line cabinet could totally transform this drivers performance.
I hope it will.
Most full range drivers are indicator speakers
They will tell you everything from front end too the speakers
Also they have lots of break up that’s how they work too produce hi frequencies
The measurements you should take is spectral decay that what shows stored energy
1 watt gated & 1 meter.
You can use eq but that doesn’t fix the problem
If your using them in open baffle high pass for example at 180hz
Your removing the bass off the speaker
Less movement cleaner less distortion
Implementation is very important
Or using them in the right enclosure
With correct damping too minimise the problems
You have too have basic understanding of speakers before you make comments reviews online
Your 2s are too much!
Quick English lesson...
Three 2s
One two.
Go to.
Too many Os.
Thanks for your comment though... Good points!
Thanks for your honesty!
I can't see the point of having a full range speaker that strips out extra drivers and the crossover, only to replace them with a high end EQ system.
Thanks for an honest review
I have the Silver 10’s in an open baffel configuration. My experience out of the box was pretty dishappointing. Fast fwd 4 months after extensive burn-in they are the best speakers i have ever owned! (Liionidas open baffels) They blow my Tekton Perfect SET’s out of the water!! These drivers need extensive burn in!!!
После токого привыкания,а это именно привыкли к такому звуку,вам на хороших акустических системах будет нехвотать сч вч и будет казаться всё мрачным,это очень плохой опыт
The author here seems a little impatient and does not seem to know how to handle these babies.
That's why i love that channel. Mike do not chew his words. He SPEAKS them.!!!
Thank you, my friend! You are the best!
I’ve been curious about these drivers. Thanks for doing this experiment for us. Has this experience given you more or less interest to do more DIY in the future? Thanks
I love doing DIY, and I have a really cool project coming up. Sometimes, we have to experience things like this to give us a better understanding of things. I'm just glad my audience can learn from my experiences.
It seems you barely started ;)@@mykandrew
Why the closed box design? When I look at the speaker they are selling with this driver it is a ported design.
I thought about open baffle, but this was what I settled on.
It seems very absurd for a full range 8". Literally the first time I have seen an 8" full range in a sealed box, of course the high end was harsh, you just put a spring on the driver. Full rangers >6" belong in TLs, ML-TLs, TQWT, BLH, or one of the better BR designs (e.g. an Onken). Calling building a sealed enclosure a huge undertaking had me about to drop the video right there, as it is a very telling statement.
"Full Range" realistically just doesnt include bass. I have a 33.3uf capacitor thing on my full range speakers to cut all the bass. The mids and highs dont make my ears bleed because i don't crank the volume that high. Use a subwoofer.
I used the Lil 15" for an open baffle sub. Worked well. But for the bookshelf boxes (similar sizes) I went with the jbl 328c similar to the ojas
Honest review,
Much appreciated.
Would like to hear manufacturer response.
What's interesting about the direction they gave you on the enclosure is the plans they have on their website are at least twice as big as the ones you made. And it's ported/transmission line. I'm going to get a pair of the 10-inch to play around with in various enclosure configurations.
Report back your findings I’m curious of the results.
@@mykandrew looking at the thread I've seen several comments on the shape of your cabinet. A lot of hate for the "square" shape. I'll point you in the direction of Devon Turnbull's OJAS Artbook speakers. He's putting a coax driver in a nearly square ported box and they sound incredible. Maybe try a very similar box with your project but add a front port? I know the specs aren't identical between the two different drivers but it might be a direction worth fiddling with.
Do you run into any listener fatigue issues with these after applying the EQ? I've often found that peaks in the mid/high end are caused by resonances. Although EQ can give a nicer-looking response curve, the resonances can still cause ringing which leads to listener fatigue.
EQ was just a band-aid. These are definitely fatiguing speakers.
@@mykandrewHow loud were you listening to them? Single driver known to have beaming in 5-8k area.
A baffle-step filter might also have been useful?
The box on the website looks like a folded horn, not a box, and doesn't look that hard to make. Something went wrong in communication I suspect. Wonder if you could try again?
Bad experiences are part of this journey- there is no way every piece of gear is The Best or The Worst. I wouldn't feel bad, not at all.
Thanks Charles 😊
Or you need to insert a "buffer step" circuitry consisting of a few components into the speaker to tame the high's and lift the bass.
My experience is that for Full Ranger it needs (1) many hours of playing can be between 30-100hr before it settles down, 2) some FR has certain amount of uncontrollably high frequencies. That is why you are experiencing this effect.
What amplifier/ pre are you using? I have a feeling you might be experiencing your amplifier for the first time 😅…
Did you toe-in/out and place speaker out into the room? If you have them up close to your walls these might not be your speakers…
Well, it definitely isn't my first review, and I have used my Topping LA90, which is one of the best measured amps on the market.
I using lii song fast 8. Sound more neatrual dont have high pitch sound issue
Own the Silver 10s in a custom gigantic enclosure with tuned front ports. Pretty heavy sound deadening inside. The clarity is off the charts. Details revealed without harshness. Admittedly I use a flea tube amp and two subs. So just my opinion but the back pressure from these highly sensitive drivers needs control.
I'm pretty sure that given the drivers T/S parameters especially QTS there is no way that an enclosure that small makes sense to me. I'd think it was meant to be used in a RLH.
I built 3 different enclosures and your right they were terrible swacky ported , sealed floor standers for a year just gave up
4:48 A much bigger bass reflex box. 😅
This type of driver normally needs a lengthy break-in and a slight toe-in. Also that driver would be better in an OB or some kind of quarter wave pipe. A little sealed box might be easy but it will not let that type of driver be its best self. Lastly, your lighting needs some refinement. It makes you look like you are missing some teeth depending on how you move your head.
Funny video. There is a man here in Australia who regards them VERY highly
There is a reason KEF spent decades improving/perfecting their Uni-Q drivers. Taking a relatively new design full-range driver and putting them inside a DIY cabinet is taking a few optimisation shortcuts that renowned speaker manufacturers spend years toiling over.
🤣
These worked good for me in a recycled UTAH 10" 3 way cabinet that I ported with a slot on the front. The clarity for voice and instruments is outstsnding. They lack thumping bass but that's artificial anyway.
I knew a guy who tried to clone Kef 105's. He didn't get the right drivers and they sounded awful. He learned that you can't just jam any driver into any enclosure.
They need a big ported enclosure 😊
Thanks for an honest review. The brand seems to have hyped for a while amongst DIY and open baffle enthusiasts, but I saw them running into all sorts of problems because of the need to roll off these ‘all range’ drivers. This also holds for the bigger diameter ones.
Yeah, not what I had anticipated for sure.
Thanks for the honest review. That's a lot of money for a speaker that sounds like crap, or needs that much help from an equalizer. Your measurement matched theirs, so they are honest about the sound. The speaker must be made that way on purpose for a niche part of the market. Let us know if the sound sounds better to you after more time. Thanks again.
Normally, a 97db-8 ohm driver would work well with just a couple of watts. Looking at the graph, it's obvious that the impedance is so low that it will create real problems for most amplifiers. In fact, I can't recall ever seeing an impedance curve that drops below 0 ohms.
Plus, the QTS of .256 indicates that, a horn design rather than a sealed cabinet would work best. Typically, full range drivers have a rising frequency response curve as it moves into the upper mid-range, that issue was long ago addressed. Important for those either not having a parametric EQ or who favor minimalist elements in their system.
Yeah it's a funky driver for sure.
The driver is above 8 Ohms at all frequencies, the impedance scale is on the right hand side of the graph.
i make a BL+FL horn with the Lii Silver, with bass 10" in the same enclosure SOUSAPHON 20 Hornspeaker, i like it more than Lowther
I found the same with the f15s. For a company that prides itself on making driver that don't need a crossover. They make horrendous sounding product without a crossover.
Thank God for EQ
Is that with an open baffle or with a box?
@@universally1584 open baffle. I never put them in a box.
@@939Productions so what was the sound like? Was it the lack of bass? Or something else? Have you heard Magnaplanars?
@@dorianstube There is a video on my channel explaining why I dislike the drivers
Same materials, same oem manufacturer drivers which is suppose supplier for famous brand name, same cabinet and same crossover parts so what is miracle point of regular brand name speakers?
I prefer speakers that sound good without EQ or even tone controls.
Same here!
This is the first time I see a bad review for these speakers, and everyone uses them with open baffles, so it baffles me to see these in a DYI small box.
There IS such a thing as Burn In
I don't have 10 years to wait for these to evolve
From first glance that enclosrue looks way undersized. No wonder you have zero low end.
👍🏽
Yes fantastic drivers, they need to be handled knowledgebly, and I understand not made for you at all. ;) In the hands and with the ears of Decware, USA HIFI guru Number 1 they are made in heaven.
I wouldn't drive them with topping.
What would you suggest?
@@mykandrew Keces e40, smsl a1, sugden a21se sig., rega aethos, accuphase and sorts some smooth class a amp. If you have aiyima t9 or a08, those might work.
What the hell were you thinking putting those drivers in that square cabinet? OMG!! 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️… sorry, but are you trying to build a Bose Cube from the 1990s?… I know I have been harsh but you couldn’t possibly built a worse enclosure for those speakers. Get the Fast 8 in a back loaded horn design and get an SET tube amp. And for God’s sake don’t do EQ… oh lordie!! EQ 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Vietnamise ?
This is an incomplete review. These speakers need at least 200 hours of burn in time. They COMPLETELY change with time. I have many Lii drivers and they all need the break in before you truly hear what they have to offer. Fast-8s sound so horrible right out of the box. Sharp and unlistenable. After 500 hours they are sweet and smooth with good fast bass. If you review these speakers right out of the box, you are not doing it right. Really all speakers need time, but Lii needs more than most. I let them play for 24 hours with a, audio sweep track 20-20k. Then I let them rest for 24 hours, then repeat. After several days of doing that, they are ready to listen to and then they continue to develop.
Do you want to buy mine?
How much? @@mykandrew
How much?
I like your honesty. Truth is that you realised the shittiest possible enclosure for these drivers whose electrical/mechanical parameters don't allow them to make bass in a closed volume or even a BR. What you have done would be a very bad mid section for a 3 ways system.
Next time try an acoustic line, or better a TQWT.
The bass wasn't terrible, but you're right, if I could do it again, which I might in the future, I would go open baffle with these.
Aloha Mike - I appreciate your candor. I’m also concerned that if you request gear from other manufacturers that once they see this video, they will not send you gear out of fear of a crushing negative review, as for audiophiles, your review was crushing. For the preservation of your ability to acquire future review samples from other manufacturers, I suggest you pull this video. There’s nothing wrong with only telling us about the good stuff. Unless you can self fund all future review samples, this one should be pulled.
If a company makes a great product, they have nothing to fear but fear itself 😉
@@mykandrew A fine stance. But they, as an industry, will cut you out of free review samples if they understand you might slam them. Steve Guttenberg simply returns subpar products without publishing a devastating review. And if you get blacklisted, your channel will suffer. Think chess instead of checkers 🤙
Well, especially if everyone else has nothing but praises for these speakers. He needs to be absolutely certain that it's the speaker's fault and not something he did. @@MrJohn-yz9px
I’m no audiophile and even I’m offended by this,I wasn’t born last night. Your enclosure is a joke.
Wrong size , no port , not mention it looks like crap. I think my friend William sums it up quite well.
“This life, which had been the tomb of his virtue and of his honour, is but a walking shadow; a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing”.
-William Shakespeare
It’s completely the design of your speaker box like that’s more what the problem is (I have exactly the same speaker) you say manufacture suggestions …I call BS I simply look at the speaker plans on their website they post for this and not one design looks like YOURS! all of the plans for this speaker are not small and are ported 😞😞😞
This video is bad bro lol
especially for people who think you are serving a respectful honest review
It shouldn’t even be a review it really should be taken down cause it’s a review based on your very bad box like design
When everyone else who knows lii audio and knows all the great Diy’ers of their drivers
Plus companies like decware would easily come to this video and call horse %#%¥ cause it just looks like your swimming around not saying
ITS MY DESIGN that’s the problem
lowters are no good at all
The explanation I got on that was, they sound good on a rainy day. High humidity. Seems paper cones they use will absorb some moisture i.e. enough to make them sound good. So Lowther and a humidifier? I stayed away from them at the last minute.
Just goes to show how important equalization still is and why I run an EQ still to this day while most people have shunned them.
Agreed, EQ is a savior with odd gear.