Don’t Do This With Your Tractor!!
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- Опубліковано 14 тра 2018
- If you don’t know what you’re talking about you’ll probably post something about it breaking because it’s a Kubota or because it’s too small. In actuality, no equipment is immune to this type of failure regardless of size or brand. The good operators who have been doing this for a long time know the dangers and aren’t quick to dismiss it.
Do your research and you’ll find bent cylinders for every brand and almost every type of machine. The risk occurs when a cylinder is fully extended and then the equipment is driven and the forces are trying to push the rod back in. The power of the machine driving is far greater than what the cylinder can withstand. I’ve posted this video to try and help others from making the same mistake again did.
How I broke the curl cylinder on my Kubota B3300SU Sub Compact Tractor.
If you have any questions, post them in the comments.
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Remember, anything worth doing is worth overdoing!
Answering some questions about my equipment:
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#22 - Навчання та стиль
Thanks for posting. Really helpful - I had no idea. Tough lesson but appreciate you sharing with us. Cheers!
GP Outdoors
Thanks!!
Thanks for posting, like everyone else that has commented, I've done the same thing with back blading with edge of bucket. I will definitely be more cautious about using the bucket in this manor. Good luck and glad to see the dealer was able to help you out quickly.
Paul Wiedeman
I was surprised how many similar stories I found when searching the net. I had done it many times myself. You just never know.
Great advice and you did an excellent job of explaining how and why it happened. Definitely something to be aware of and I thank you for possibly saving me from damaging a cylinder on my LS tractor. Nice video and well done and thank you!
Thanks for the feedback!!
Thanks for sharing.I am a newbie when it comes to running a small tractor.This was a very helpful video.
Dennis Post
Good deal. I hope it keeps you from making the same costly mistake.
thanks for posting iv done that many times never had a problem but i can see it now thanks
casy casy
I’ve done it tons of times too. I just never gave it any thought. I know better now.
I was just doing this yesterday with my bucket, never thought about it..thx a million!
cliffhanger
You bet!!
Thanks for the tip....I have a JD2140 and I was doing a lot of back dragging (not any more). Makes a lot of sense when you explain it.
Gil B
You bet!! Have fun with your tractor!
I thank you for sharing that information so I don't do the same thing with my tractor and loader. I usually only pickup small stuff but have worked the tractor and loader at times while working with trash around my yard.
Sidney Mathious
Yep! It’s something you don’t think about.
Play
Thanks for posting this! Wouldn't have expected that to ever happen.
Peter Koza
I didn’t either. Especially since I wasn’t working it hard.
Thank you for posting up about your mistake. I will definitely be learning from it as I go about scrapping my driveway of snow and/or ice this winter.
Dan Tuson
You bet! Hoping everyone can learn from it. Thanks!
Thanks for the video. I was back dragging the other day exactly how you described. Won't be doing that again.
Just be careful and I wouldn’t do it with a vertical bucket.
Great video and good warning for us all. It’s crazy how expensive OEM parts can be. It’s also very common for folks who have backhoes to break their bucket curl cylinder as it extends.
Keep on tractoring and God bless
A RITTER BIT WILL DO
Thanks! You’re right, doesn’t matter what you have. It’s all breakable.
Thank you for this video! I back drag frequently with the front of my bucket, but will discontinue the practice immediately! Also fantastic to hear I can do it with the BACK of my bucket. Do not only the initial advice, but a work around as well! Thank you!
Jon Webber
You bet! I’m glad you found it prior to having any damage.
Thank you for sharing, I have a new kioti and videos like yours help me avoid some costly repairs!!
caliguy1500
You’re welcome! Have fun with your new tractor!!
Jarod thank you for taking the time to show us the potential damage and cost associated with this I see all the time front wheels up in the air and back dragging all the time but you are 100 percent correct the laws of physics don’t care what model or brand you have it will break
eviloctober
Thank you very much for echoing the potential dangers. There have been a lot of naysayers so it’s nice to see someone understand.
Thanks!!
Thanks for the heads up.
BotaArt
You bet!!
I've done some back dragging with my little Kioti. Never realized the potential of breaking a cylinder. Glad I saw this video. Will cause me to be more careful. Thanks.
Rod M
You’re welcome! Have fun with your Kioti!
Thx great share, and great dealer you have, not many around like yours, I've seen this happen onall kinds of equipment like you found online in your search, I've seen skid steers of all makes, loaders from Medium to heavy duty,Cat, Komatsu,John Deere,Case,Doosan,Hyundai,you name it,all from extreme articulation and its a common thing,I even saw a Cat 3 series excavator,bend the heck out of one moving a rock, it has nothing to do with 3 rd rate cylinders like Doug Shrader said,I have dealt and worked in hydraulics since the late 70's and saw it happen then and the cylinders now are built far stronger than back in those days,$500 is a great price when you think of it getting you back in operation in a few hours, hats off to backward country gardens,your lucky, the service where i live in Canada is not that good, we just sometimes want to get'er done and we get'er busted,lol,again great video
Bob Church
Great info and useful comment. It’s a little frustrating when people comment and slam the brand when it isn’t just related to Kubota. It is all brands and all styles of equipment.
And yes, Fackler is a great dealer and will keep me coming back just for their service alone.
Thanks!!
Thanks for posting.
Wow sorry about the piston. Thank you for taking the time to talk about it.
Glastenbury Designs Woodshop
Thanks! You bet!!
Yeah thanks for sharing. I’m a new owner so this is helpful!
Pro 198
Good. Hopefully it keeps you from the same fate.
Sorry for your damage and thanks for posting!
Chris S
Thanks!!
Thanks a lot for the info.
Man, that's a heck of a lesson learned. Thanks for the information. Yep, as you explained it, it definitely makes sense as to why a cylinder would not be able to withstand a force in the opposite direction when the arm is fully extended. Sorry you had to go through that whole thing. Kudos to the Garden shop that helped you and good to hear you're back in business. Thumbs up. New sub to your channel.
Houndsman One
Thanks for the feedback!!
Thank you so much for sharing your experience--and lesson learned. The first time i heard this I did not understand the issue, now i do.
I'm in the process of tractor need assessment and trying to learn more before i start working with the tractor and "finding solutions" when i am actually making mistakes. Hopefully i have heard this advise enough to follow it.
Back Drag With The Back of The Bucket!
Steve Anderson
Absolutely, and kudos to you for doing your research and learning. Have fun with your tractor!
Wow !!!! I'm glad you could get the part you needed.
John DeRossett
Thanks!!!
Sorry for your expensive lesson. Thank YOU for sharing your experience. You may have saved some of us from experiencing the same thing.
IBAKaspian
You bet!!
Great tip. It scares me a bit cause I've done that same myself! Not any more!
Good advice I just replaced my bucket cylinder on my JD 430 loader costing $725 with tax. I couldn't take another hit after that one. Thanks Again
seth lawrence
Bummer. Sorry you didn’t find this before the damage. I feel your pain.
Not trying to be a dick here, but in the owners manual it explains not to drag with curl cylinder fully extended. I used to not read manuals but as I have got older I realized if I had read the instructions first it would have save me money. Good video!!
You’re good bud. Mine happened so quick and without it feeling like I did anything. I didn’t even think about it and didn’t think I was doing anything detrimental. I was just trying to spin a log so I could grab it and skid it out of the woods. What killed me was that I had long forks on and spun it with the tips instead of engaging it higher up.
Thanks for info, I have been doing this with not a care in the world. Gonna be more careful from now on. I got enough trouble without causing it myself. I am sure this has/will help others. Thanks again.
John Waddell
Thanks!!
Thanks for the video! Heck, it's all I can do just to change implements. I have no mechanical ability. I back-drag heavy objects OFTEN, with the bucket tip extended. Would have never been aware of the potential for damage. I would have to pay the dealer to pick-up, and re-deliver. Plus parts/service.Thanks again!
Ken Marvin
Good deal. Hope this saves you from future failures by making the same mistake I did.
Thanks for posting this, I was doing something very similar with my bucket moving trees about a week ago with my BX. I easily could have done the same damage! I won’t do it again now. Thank you!
Horm999
You bet! Anything to keep anyone from doing the same damage.
I have a BX25 and check out this issue with the backhoe cylinder flex : ua-cam.com/video/Vw0vjxGwW2w/v-deo.html
Just bought a kubota bx23s and I have to be honest, I was doing the same thing with my logs and fork. Luckily I didn't break anything, and I can't thank you enough for bringing this to my attention. I have over 20 more trees to drop and I probably would have broke it eventually. I'm going to be a lot more cautious and change my strategy. Thank you for the vid, Sir!
Red 6Romeo
Welcome!! I had done the same thing a ton of times myself with no problems. Unfortunately, that’s how everything goes. It’s always ok.....until it isn’t.
You have a smart local dealer. He knows after sales and return business is where his future is. Good for him and lucky you :)
16B9
Exactly. That’s what’ll keep me going back to them over and over. I buy almost everything from them just because of their support.
Thanks for the heads up. I knew not to do that... However the cost puts it in a different prospective.
Jonathan Ballard
You bet!!
Wow! I do that all the time with my sub, thanks for the warning.
tony mcclendon
You bet!!
Great info. Thank you!
T E
You bet!!
Thanks, been doing the same thing. will change to more of an angle.
William Brown
Better safe than sorry.
Man, I am glad I found this! Picking up a brand new MX5400 on Thursday, and I use my bucket like that all the time...well, I used to.
Bill O'Brien
You just never know. You could do it 999 times with no issue and that 1000th time you snag something. It sucks, it’s embarrassing to share, but if wanted to save people if I could.
@@JaredsShop Takes a mighty big man to do that. Bought my first tractor this past summer, June 2022, a 2012 New Holland. Just happened to see the title of your video and watched it. Thank you very much, sir.
@@blorph1
You bet. Thanks
I owned a fluid power repair company for 24 years. Guys like you were what kept my business thriving.
Ricky Tikki Tavi
😄 I’m sure we were. I know better now though. I can’t believe I didn’t give it any thought before.
BTW, I love your username. I remember watching that cartoon in school.
@@JaredsShop wasn't trying to sound smug. Glad you got your tractor running again. I would have recommended you to do exactly what you did.
Ricky Tikki Tavi
No you’re fine. That’s why I put a smiley face. I’m sure you saw all kinds of broken stuff from bonehead mistakes.
@@JaredsShop yep, I sure did. But I also had my share of boneheaded mistakes as well. I don't think anybody is immune from that. Good luck to ya!
Thank You for nuggets of wisdom!
William Cunha
You bet!!
Good pointer , thank you!
jeff camp
You bet!! Thanks for watching!
Thanks for sharing your learning experience.
Thank you!!
Ouch... But now you know!!! Good video, like you said might help someone not make the same mistake.
Logan Stafford
Thanks! Hopefully it does help save someone from damaging their equipment too.
ive seen a warning somewhere about back dragging with my bucket straight down - didnt give it much thought - besides wondering why- i have a B3300SU too--spending about an hour on it tomorrow cleaning the driveway of its heavy snow -good thing i seen this
port starboard
Nice. You happy with it? I didn’t need a mid-mount PTO so I thought it was a heck of a deal and saved a lot of money not having it.
Good video/information. Right to the point.
John Morissette
Thanks!!!
Thanks for sharing this. I have used my loader in positions and have been extremely lucky not to have been in the same club you are now a member of. Nothing will teach a person quicker than having the lesson cost hundreds of dollars. Sorry for your mishap but willing to bet that it will not happen again.
Gary Fox, iowa
Barb Fox DVM
Yes, I learned my lesson and am more thoughtful with the forces applied by the work. Hopefully you’ll never experience the same damage.
Thanks!
Good info thanks! I will back drag loose dirt with my bucket edge down. I won't do it with gravel are packed ground.
Louisiana Aquaponics
Thanks for the feedback. It’s definitely something to be careful of. I never gave any thought to the cylinders being fully extended and not having any cushion. The longer something is the easier it is to bend.
If you mean fully down, then you are still running a risk unless you're doing it on glare ice.
Thanks for the tip ! I’ll watch it
You bet!!
Good info. Appreciate the tip.
Allen Jones
You bet!!
Outstanding your dealer was willing to rob a part from stock to get you back in the swim! :-)
Tom Elder
Yes. They definitely go above and beyond!
Tht's because they see him as a cash cow LOL
Ben Bennett
They treat me really good on everything I buy. They know I could order parts and maintenance items from internet sources but their service keeps me coming back.
That's cool, you know they make a grabber attachment...
Ben Bennett
I have a grapple now too but haven’t had much of a chance to use it.
Unfortunate but thank you for the tip!
MrJohn714
You bet!!
Thank you sir as a newer owner I can use this knowledge
If I can keep anyone from having the same thing happen, it’s worth sharing.
You are absolutely correct about the fully extended piston rod when the bucket is in the extreme down position, but I don’t think the hydraulic pressure trying to push the piston rod back into the cylinder is what caused the collar on your cylinder to break. If you notice the movement of the cylinder when the bucket is in the fully dumped position, the piston rod end (collar) gets closer to the lift arm as it radiuses from its pivot point further up the lift arm. Normally it would never touch, but when the bucket is pushed further back beyond its normal stop position, (such as when a log might shift towards the machine, or you move slightly forward,) the end of the cylinder can actually touch momentarily on the lift arm causing an extreme pinch point. It doesn’t necessarily leave a mark on the arm, and it’s not evident that it touched after it springs back into normal position, but this is what breaks the collar. While you can do this without the forks, the leverage of any length fork makes it easier for this to happen.
Finally it's Ed
I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear. It wasn’t the hydraulic pressure that caused the failure. It was the fact that the rod could not go back into the tube, and then bent, which cracked the gland.
Finally it's Ed
Oh, and I have stops on the loader and forks so the the rod cannot contact the loader arm. I know what you’re talking about there. I’ve read some threads from guys complaining that their bucket stops were welded in the wrong place. Thankfully mine weren’t.
Please don't be sorry about your clarity, I'm just sorry to see (yours and my) machines break. Funny enough, I just blew a steering rack cylinder seal on my John Deere 410D backhoe. You can't live without equipment, and when they break, it just goes to prove it, lol.
Finally it's Ed
Everything breaks. No way around it.
Thanks for this video, I do this a lot with my 3901 Kubota. I never realized what a strain I was putting on the curl cylinders. I don't drag logs backward but some of my firewood is in piles and I backdrag the top of the pile to make loading easier. I'll be careful now.
Dan Dalrymple
Absolutely!! How do you like your 3901? I’m considering that as my next tractor. I like that it weighs more than mine and can lift higher, even though it only lifts a little bit more.
I use the 3901 a lot with firewood, mowing and clearing snow. One thing I DO NOT like about it is the "particulate filter ???" in the exhaust system. During our Ohio winter when I'm not mowing and running the engine hard the particulate filter in the exhaust system requires letting the tractor sit while running the engine at PTO speed for a half hour or more. This happens several times each winter. If this is not done the tractor will not run correctly, near zero power, near zero RPM. No problem with this in the summer when I'm mowing at 2500 RPM with my 3 point 6 foot mower. This keeps the filter clean? Dunno. Wish there was a way to eliminate this problem.
Dan Dalrymple
That is a problem with all DPFs. They require heat to clean them out or they get plugged up. You never want to baby an engine with a DPF. I’m a little weary of getting one but I don’t have much choice if I want HP.
My dealer keeps suggesting the 2501 because there are no emissions on it but I don’t know. He says no one complains about the power but it has to be geared lower and that results in a lower travel speed. I drive my tractor on the road between my house and woods and I don’t want to go any slower than I have to.
If you didn’t know, I’m in Ohio too so I’ll have the winter to deal with as well.
It was 5 BELOW ZERO yesterday morning and I needed to plow my driveway. Waited until the pre heater light went out, it turned over slowly but started right up on the first try. So I do really like my 3901. It always starts and runs fine, still don't care for the DPF but NICE tractor.
Dan Dalrymple
Mine started slow also. I previously had a thinner weight oil in it and this summer when I purchased my filters and such the dealer gave me 15-40(?). I questioned it but he said that’s what is spec’d. It turned over A LOT slower with that. I looked in my manual and I can use 15-40 or 10-30(?). I’d have to look at my manual to make sure I’m right on the numbers. I will definitely be running the lighter weight from now on.
Thanks for the video. I have a grounds crew who back drag driveways in the winter with a Kubota SSV75, bucket fully dropped. Other then breaking it countless other ways (ugh) this has not happened yet, but I can see it happening in the future. I'll bring this subject up to them.
spdwebdotnet
Probably not a bad idea. Better safe than sorry. There’s a guy who posted here about doing it to a CAT track loader. I’ve found reports of it happening to almost every type of equipment.
WorthOverdoing Yep.. all it would take is hooking one manhole cover or curb with the bucket fully dropped. Surprised it's not happened thus far actually lol
I was back dragging with my MX5100 a few years ago and my Dad stopped me and informed me. My Dad spent a lifetime on a farm, Dairy, then heavy equipment burying cable for Bell telephone for 25 years...and then another 20 years for the federal Government in heavy equipment operating. Long story short he was legend on any kind of equipment. He was the guy they called when a backhoe or dozer was stuck, or about to go over a cliff or in a river, they called him to come get it out of the problem area. Anyway he stopped me from working and said Son, that what you are doing right now, (Back dragging with front end loader) I had the front tires dang near pushed off the ground. He said that is one of the worst things you can do with a tractor, or anything with a front end loader. I agreed of course, because I already knew that he knows what he talkin about. He said a backhoe will handle the pressure for a longer time than a compact tractor. But its even hard on a backhoe. He said its okay to back drag a little but be very careful how much pressure you are pushing down. Then he made me put the box blade on and finish what I was doing. It was my tractor, and I was 35 years old...but I was like yes Sir. Lmao...Dad always know best. I just stumbled on to this video in my feed. I hope what I have added to this content may help someone else and save them some time and money...like my Dad helped me.
Smokin Bill Williams
Fantastic story Bill! I think it adds credibility to what I’m trying to get across.
Back dragging in general, while often done with no problems, does put a lot of stress on certain parts of the equipment and increases the chances of damage. Most professional equipment operators know this and most owners don’t think about it until they’ve damaged something. It doesn’t matter what brand you have, it can still happen.
Smokin Bill Williams
That’s what I’ve been telling everyone but a lot of the comments are about my tractor being junk or too small. Anything can break.
Bill Willia
Thank you for the warning, this is valuable information. Thumbs up
Thanks so much!!!
My KIOTI DK 4210 SE recommends for back dragging do not curl over 17 degrees. Same go's pushing forward.
I did the same on my New Holland TC45D BACKHOE never on the loader and I do do this all the time. What I want you to learn from me is this: A new cylinder was 400 and a piston was 100 and the shell was 100. So I never damged the shell and changed the piston out for a lot less money. Now after ten years of use the O rings are allowing the fluid to pass by and I should change the O rings out. HOWEVER, I installed a THUMB on this backhoe that I believe put excessive pressure on this piston causing the by passing of fluid. It is still operational, I just need to keep pressure on the HANDLE while using the THUMB. Hope this helps you in the future.
Bob Hamilton
Great feedback for all.
I've never had a problem with back dragging, however I have seen it done in such a way that it surprised me that the operator didn't break something.
Very good info. thanks
Phillip Iacobacci
You bet! Thanks!!
Thank you very much.
You bet! Thank you for the feedback.
Thank you
Good info thanks
Fox Guns & Gear
You bet!
Not a bad price on the cylinder...sorry that happened to ya brotha....too bad they wouldn't warranty it...great kubota dealership for sure!
Stoney Ridge Farmer
Thanks bud! I couldn’t fault them for not giving me a warranty since it was my fault. Just happy they helped me so quickly.
Humm, I have done this on my JD, without problem. Will keep this in mind.
Rob Chandler
I had done it the same thing many times before also. Everything is fine right until it isn’t. I just never gave it any thought until it happened. Hopefully it helps others from having the same fate.
Oh and for back dragging you also can use the float feature where the loader just uses its weight and no hydro pressure is applied ... very smooth once you get comfortable with it
Maybe not all models have this feature ... should say in the manual ... 👍
Paul Lambert
It has float, but only for lift and not for curl. It didn’t want float because I was separating a tree where it was cut.
thanks for footing the bill of this lesson for me.
dippst
: ) Yep!
Great tip!
D Em
Thanks!
Nice info. Thanks for sharing.
Scott Dennis hope it saves you from the same fate.
@@JaredsShop I will say to you without reservation that "I know better than to do that." With that said. . .I still do it. LOL! But I try not to do it and with your post of $500 for the replacement I'll try even harder. 😄
Is your tractor paid for? If not, I'm sure it has insurance on it. If not provided by Kubota then a private company. If it is paid for then your private insurance should pay for it. Unless you have a $500 deductible then my post was a waste of time. Glad you got it fixed and thank you for the tip.
No, my tractor did not have insurance on it at the time. It was paid off and I didn’t carry insurance after KTAC. I do have insurance on my new tractor though.
Thanks! You may have just saved me $500.
David Armstrong
You bet!
can you get parts for these cylinders? a packing kit and a new piston/ end cap?
Guinelle1
I can have them made by the local hydraulic shop but my tube was also deformed. It wasn’t worth fixing unfortunately.
Wasn't a good ram to start with, feel for you mate, thanks for the warning!
Great video
Thank you!!
Good video , there is a float position on the bucket stick , would this have prevented this stress ?
No, it would not have prevented this. The float function only works for loader up/down and does nothing with the curl function.
Thanks for posting, good info, sorry yours got damaged
Thank you!!
thank you ,good info!! sorry it happened to you
Thank you. It sucks but hopefully the video will help prevent others from having the same issue.
The Caterpillar saleswoman guaranteed no bent cylinders for life.
I said, "Whose life?"
Salesperson: eyes diverted to side momentarily, followed with blank look and smile. Then offered me a cup of coffee and a pen to sign a long term lease. I took the coffee but said I will read over this lease. Said thanks and started toward my truck. She said, 'Wait, you can't take that paperwork with you !" I said, 'You expect somebody to just keep all this in their head??" She threw up her hand and waved bye.
Took me 2 days to read all that.
Wow. Your comeback was perfect. You definitely should be allowed to take any contract home and read it, have your attorney look over it, etc. They must have been afraid that you were going to take it elsewhere and use it to get a better deal.
When researching this issue I found bent cylinders on almost everything, and it was every brand, even CAT. The bigger the cylinders, the bigger the machine, and the more force they can apply while driving. It’s not the hydraulic power that causes this. It’s when the hydraulics are locked and a machine moves under its own power. No brand is immune.
Different machines are more vulnerable at different times also. For example, a lot of large payloaders have their tilt cylinder attached to the bottom of the bucket, so when they curl forward (dump), the cylinder is actually retracted. This means they can back drag all they want without fear of this issue.
@@JaredsShop : You know, the bent cylinder issue is something I must admit I have not fully understood. Very much appreciate you explaining it. It is something all operators must guard against. Especially those of us who dream of tractor time more than actually doing it.
@@horacesawyer2487
It’s something I hadn’t given any thought to until it happened to me. Once I understood how it happened, it all made sense and I was ashamed I hadn’t thought of it before.
Can attest - I bent the piston on the curl cylinder of my M8540 using forks. We had a fire in our barn and there were pockets of smoldering hay that I tried to pull out of the partially burned stack by backdragging with the forks fully extended. So I got to replace both a cylinder and a barn/shop. Life.
BTW - my tractor, only 1 yr old at the time of the fire, was also in harm's way from the fire. I was able to move it before any significant damage - the plastic backs of my side mirrors melted.
Glad you were able to get the tractor out and sorry to hear about the barn. Thanks for sharing!
thanks pal
Mike Kahotea
You bet!!
Thanks explaining, thus thanks for the tip. It may be obvious now, but understand cylinder design and leverage. Your cylinders were fully extended, meaning that there was little "insertion" of the rod into the cylinder. I would not have expected buckling, but the position also makes them susceptible to bending damage if something like a limb strikes the cylinder mid-point. Maybe under full extension, something causes them to flex in a slight arc? (I've seen it)
Another thing that can happen when leverage is increased, such as forks or a hay spear, is when the points are down and they catch the ground while the tractor is moving. The leverage creates unanticipated (undesigned) stress. If the cylinders are not fully extended, the hydraulic pressure spikes and can burst a hose or a hose fitting. Ask me how I know.
Thoughts about cylinder replacement: first, you always want paired cylinders to match perfectly in both extended and collapsed lengths, thus it is good that you did not settle on a longer cylinder, unless you got 2. In your situation, it would have been possible to take the 14" cylinder and reduce the rod length through cutting/welding to create the perfect length. Again, both need to match collapsed length too. Glad you have a fix and thanks for the time to create this video.
Bob Black
Totally agree with what you said.
I did have mine fully extended so I think the cylinder was weaker than the hose at that point. I was driving backwards pulling the tree apart. It didn’t take much force to separate it so I didn’t feel like I was overworking any part of the machine.
Bob Black
And I would most definitely replace both cylinders if upgrading or changing sizes.
Thank you very much. I have a Kioti and I use the bucket to back blade all the time...I will stop now.
Gary Fischer
You’re welcome!!
ive seen a lot of uh ohs with equipment of all sizes this is however one ive never seen before!
rick finzel
Hopefully you won’t have to see it again! : )
Thanks for a positive non-blaming post
Doug Bourdo
Thanks! Can’t blame anyone but myself. Just hoping to help educate others and prevent them from suffering the same fate.
That’s why I install four way buckets on all of my equipment.
Clay Goodwin
4 way buckets are awesome.
The cause of this was a little beyond just the pressure in the cylinder, this can happen with just static pressure, i.e. fluid there but no place to go. The mechanics of the failure is when a cylinder is fully extended it cannot accept any side loads whatsoever, due to the only resistance to the unit bending (or jackknifing) is about 2 inches of cantilever support. It is like grabbing a baseball bat by the bat handle knob, holding it out level and then daring someone to apply a side load anywhere on the bat and you hold it straight. It takes only ounces of force to deflect it. moving your hand up the handle will geometrically increase the side loads you can resist. The companies that design their curl cylinder geometry to never be fully extended and in a work range, would never see this problem, but that takes some extra time and money. It just means we have to manage our cylinder extensions ALL the time. Thank you for the video, Sir!
You hit the nail on the head. It’s all because it was fully extended and there was no where for the fluid to go.
Hey mate ... Just came across you're video ... Worked in hydraulic cylinder repair for 23yrs ... Seen plenty of cylinders damaged in this way and repaired them .... $500 is a cheap fix. I'm not about to tell you how to do your business but if you can, don't drag the cylinder closed again because when you bend the cylinder rod it won't go back into the barrel without damaging something.
Most of the time you'll end up creasing the chrome(won't seal) where the rod enters the gland and when you drag the cylinder back in you'll stretch the gland or if bad enough crack it like in your video.
Dragging the rod back into the barrel can cause damage to the internal surface of the barrel. At this stage you're looking at a full cylinder rebuild and a lot of dollars spent.
Just to replace the broken gland is a 3-6 hour job (machining time only) If anything else is stuffed the price goes way up.
Hope that helps. :-)
Jason Nielsen
Thanks!
I’m sure it cracked because of the bend in the rod. Unfortunately I deformed the tube so I couldn’t even have it repaired.
It all makes perfect sense to me now. I just never even considered using it that way was going to be putting those stresses on it or I would not have done it. I’m mechanically inclined and fix extremely complex machines for a living. I can’t believe I never looked at the mechanics and thought of this ahead of time. The video probably makes me look like I’m an idiot city slicker but I don’t care. If it helps others from doing the same damage then it’s worth it.
Thankyou. We learn by making mistakes. You made the mistake ... we learn.
Bumpa Does Things
Exactly. I’m hoping I can save a few people from making the same mistake.
BX1860 with 8 different attachments. Tiller, chipper, blower etc. I worry about over working it. Time to purchae a bigger unit
The one thing i don't have. The bush hog over work the little tractor. Hate to say it but my fathers Kioti has a better disconnect for the backhoe than my buddies Kubota. Might have to look at one
I have a Kioti DK4510 with a hoe. Comes with its own subframe, 2 pins to hook up the hoe. 3 pt stays on tractor and does not effect mounting of the hoe.
Forgot to sub. Hello from northern VA.
Thanks!!
Just suscribed to your channel! I got similar experience, where digging a rock with cylinder in near full extension. I accidentally dropped the clutch. Two flexible hydraulic hoses blew at the same time. Got splashed with oil. I was lucky the oil was not hot! The hoses were less than 100$.
Holy cow. I wish it was just a hose me!
Lots of these piston rods are cheap mild steel which bend easy...been making some new in machine shop with good alloy case hardened /chromed for my buddy and no more problems.
A cylinder is always at it's strongest point when fully retracted and workloads should be applied accordingly. The machine was designed to lift the load inside the bucket, at which point the cylinder would be mainly retracted. It's time for a set of logging tines so you can drag that sob from the draw bar. Most of these little tractors get pushed pretty hard when they're put into logging situations, I see it all the time as I live in the heart of logging country. A 24" bucked white oak @ 12' long is no joke.
Southeastern Ohio Honeybees
I agree with the cylinder being strongest when retracted.
I skid with an attachment I built for the 3 point hitch. I just was just trying to spin the log around so I could grab the end.
Often times we don't want to leave the seat on and off to hook up cables to get it rigged correctly but..... I skid with a D3C Cat so I can't throw judgement at a guy who uses his tractor at the fullest of it's ability, I understand completely, it sucks you had to pay $500, to teach us all the lesson but thanks for the schoolin.
Southeastern Ohio Honeybees
At the time I also didn’t have a cant hook. If the logs were on the dirt I’d have to get them up on the chains somehow. Now that I have a cant hook I don’t mess around with spinning the logs as much or lifting them onto a branch for temporary height.
Is this only an issue pulling backwards, or is it also an issue pushing forwards with cylinders extended?
This is only an issue when pulling back. You have to envision that the bucket is pivoting on the bottom pins. When you are pulling back the bucket is trying to rotate on those pins and push the cylinders back in. If you are pushing on the bucket then you are trying to pull the cylinders out. They are much stronger in that direction.
Seen a pile of bent tilt rods when I worked for a skid steer manufacturer. Our problem was the stops at full tilt so the cylinder could hit loader arms if you fully extended then tried to push with the bucket edge, it was a new design of cylinder and the tolerances are very tight. Was surprised that anyone would think this was OK to do but people do it. The kubota's do have stops that prevent damage if you do this. All equipment could suffer this failure if somehow you exceed the design limits. lucky it was just the one cylinder, typically its both. Bent cylinders are very rarely warranty due to the fact that manufactures are very careful to design so they shouldn't bend unless abused. RPM has little effect as one comment says because the relief valve is set by pressure, RPM only effects flow. Kubota makes good equipment, I have a B2601. Typically a rebuild for this type of failure is more than a complete replacement cylinder and you are never sure the rebuild will last.
MichaelPMc
Very well constructed and intelligent post.
Interesting and strange at the same time. I have a 35 horse New Holland and have done LOTS of back dragging with it, even to the point where it'll lift up the front of my tractor and I've never had any issues with my curl cylinders. I have a feeling that with your forks you had extra leverage going on and that is what put too much stress on your machine. When I do logging work I try to use my Kubota mini excavator, it's easier anyways. I still think Kubota makes a good product. Thanks for sharing, I'm sure it'll help a lot of other people out there!
BarnStangz
I’ve also back drug just like how you stated without issue. The forks almost certainly had something to do with it but I also found countless reports of it happening to people with just buckets, which is why I’m sharing. It’s even happened to backhoes, track loaders, etc. It’s usually when you hit something unmovable and the bucket doesn’t go up and over it. The forces of the machine moving is usually much higher than what hydraulics can stop or handle.
I did this a couple times before I got fed up and welded it solid
We have a B-7100 kabota, and we put a hair line crack in the end. We did not see it at first, so we thought it was the packing, so we put in packing in and it still leeked. So we tore it apart again and that is when I found the crack it was real small. it was 400.00 for the new one. Still use it just as hard as before. You can straighten that ram if you have a press that is easy to do. It might be cheaper to buy the ram and the packing gland, then buying the hole cyclender.
Terry Westbrook
I wish I could have but I deformed the tube. I didn’t know that until I took it to the hydraulic shop.