Finally, someone properly covered this issue. Not sure how I missed this video back in July, but just saw it today. Thanks for covering this, Neil! Can you do the same for backhoe bucket cylinders? There are a ton of people that bend these when digging out stumps cause they think if they just pull on the stump or a larger root, they'll get it out, rather than taking the time to properly dig around it and loosen the dirt, first.
I've tried explaining this to people, but a lot of ignorant people don't want to admit they're the one that broke the cylinder and unfairly blame the manufacturers saying the cylinders are too small when in reality, they just think they can beat on the machine and it will just take it. Too many people don't realize the forces involved and/or don't truly understand how hydraulics work, but like to think they do. Even I don't fully understand them, but I do try to learn about them.
Always float the bucket when you backdrag. Use a blade on the three-point if you need to pull harder. The loader is for pushing the three-point is for pulling.
I welded 1/4 inch thick × 2 inch wide and the length of the underside of the bucket in the middle. I know have a sharp edge on the bottom leaving my cylinders short being able to use full down force. End caps were welded to keep out water and debris. I've had it for 8 years, wearing well, and when I have to replace it I'll cut it out. Works very well!
I’ve been told by an experienced trusted friend on a bobcat at least to backdrag with the bucket parallel to the grade since it really compacts in the dirt rather than just scraping or moving it around.
Thank you! Perfect timing of this video. I’m going to visit a few dealers this weekend and this info is a huge help. Many of your other videos have as well. Keep them coming please! Sorry I’m too far away to purchase from you.
that's probably the safest way to do it however the dirt may pile up quite a bit thus may damage your bucket hitch mechanism or at least pack it with dirt.
So here it is in Nov 2020 and it has been a crazy year to say the least. I have also discovered that it has been a crazy sales year for my local Kubota dealership here in Alanson Michigan. I drive by the dealership several times each year and the lot always has row upon row of brand new tractors of all sizes. This year is different because even though it started with rows of tractors the lot is almost empty. I understand it has been one of the best sales years ever even with this damn covid. I am one of the customers myself as I bought a brand new BX 1880 but can not get the quick change loader bucket till January or February which doesn't make me happy but I don't have much of a choice unless I wait for next years model. Have you seen the same issue?
I can totally see your point if you’re really doing a finish pass, but for knocking large piles down I’ve always had the problem where the loader just rides over the pile unless I have the bucket fully curled under. And no, the boom lever isn’t in the float position. I’m not sure why it does it.
Have you ever seen SSQA tapered pins actually bend or disengaging because of back dragging? While the bucket is flat to the ground and back dragging, the main thing that holds the bottom of the bucket in place are the pins. Thanks!
Depending on bucket shape, you can sometimes back drag without rolling it at all, you use the next edge around to drag with. Same when pushing, you can tilt the bucket back and push a bit with that same back edge of the bucket.
Because it will just ride over the pile. I find I need only the bucket to be flat to back drag, unless I'm trying to back-scrap, then I use more of the edge. I feel safe doing this because I'm just gathering the remnants of a pile.
You definitely should not be picking the front wheels up off the ground, either. If you have to back-drag so much that you have to un-curl your bucket more than halfway, you're doing it wrong. I was always taught that back-dragging is only to make it easier to get the final little bits of a pile without pushing it too far, or to make things look good. If you're back-dragging to make things smooth, you're doing it wrong. It takes a while to get the hang of, but you should be working the dirt going forward to make it smooth; back-drag to make it look good. A trick I've learned is to set my bucket on the ground, set the level indicator, then actually have the bucket back just a hair from level while driving forward, until I get a feel for the right amount of curl for smooth grading going forward. It's easier to take slightly more material on a second or third pass than it is to re-lay that material if you take too much. I also see people (and am still guilty of this, myself, on occasion) put way too much down-pressure when trying to work dirt, going forward. Your bucket should just barely be laying on the ground, allowing the slop in the pivot pins to make up for minor differences. Once you put too much force downward, you lose your steering. If you start cutting more material away than you want, curl before lift... Use your steering as your guide for when you should lift rather than curl; if you can't steer, you need to lift, slightly. I'm no expert, myself, but I do have a fair amount of time on a loader. Perhaps someone with more experience could provide more details, or even a video (I'm sure there're even some out there, I'm just too lazy to look, lol).
@@FarmMan8802YTChannel He's typically a peaceful dude. I must have hit a nerve with him on back dragging, his response was rather curt. Then of course all his droolers chimed in. Lol.
Neil, is it fine for the machine to back drag until the wheels come off the ground? I've noticed when I do that and let off you can see the area where the locks are located flex back and forth a bit.
@@MessicksEquip okay great, thanks. I only have 14hrs so far, so just learning the the do's and don'ts of my tractor. I find myself using low range for pretty much everything as I almost never hear the whine in low. I use high only to drive faster while not using any implements.
Work the bucket heel as much as possible,sometimes you have to do things the questionable way,but limit the abuse as much as possible,it will save you thousands down the road.this equipment ain't cheap.I refuse to rent out,or hire an extra man unless im real busy for the above videod reasons alone.
what about dragging things backwards? hooking to the frontend loader, and backing up to pull something that's not a good use for the frontend loader, right? could you go into what might be safe for the tractor vs. potentially more likely to damage or ?
DIY My Way thank you very much. I shall now go attempt to back drag some dirt over top of some stumps, using an extreme bucket angle and adding as much down pressure as possible.
Hey Neil can you tell us what happened to the Kubota TLB that is behind your shop in Elizabethtown. Forget the model number. Was there the other day and that thing is toast.
Wrong. The answer is to add 4" cylinders, then sister on some 1" plates to the loader frame. There is no excuse for Cheap manufacturing, or having to baby the damned tractor. Try again...
I usually float the loader when I backdrag. Might need a couple extra passes but if i go over a big rock or something it doesn't cause issues
Best tractor vids on youtube, thanks and keep em coming
Finally, someone properly covered this issue. Not sure how I missed this video back in July, but just saw it today. Thanks for covering this, Neil! Can you do the same for backhoe bucket cylinders? There are a ton of people that bend these when digging out stumps cause they think if they just pull on the stump or a larger root, they'll get it out, rather than taking the time to properly dig around it and loosen the dirt, first.
I've tried explaining this to people, but a lot of ignorant people don't want to admit they're the one that broke the cylinder and unfairly blame the manufacturers saying the cylinders are too small when in reality, they just think they can beat on the machine and it will just take it. Too many people don't realize the forces involved and/or don't truly understand how hydraulics work, but like to think they do. Even I don't fully understand them, but I do try to learn about them.
Always float the bucket when you backdrag. Use a blade on the three-point if you need to pull harder. The loader is for pushing the three-point is for pulling.
Where’s the three point on a backhoe
I welded 1/4 inch thick × 2 inch wide and the length of the underside of the bucket in the middle. I know have a sharp edge on the bottom leaving my cylinders short being able to use full down force. End caps were welded to keep out water and debris. I've had it for 8 years, wearing well, and when I have to replace it I'll cut it out. Works very well!
Larry Rivers Now that’s a clever idea! I might have to do something like that someday.
I’ve been told by an experienced trusted friend on a bobcat at least to backdrag with the bucket parallel to the grade since it really compacts in the dirt rather than just scraping or moving it around.
I back drag and get the best finishes with the heel of the bucket. But it's a great point about the rods bending.
It helps sometimes to have a bucket full of whatever your working with for added down pressure and actually have the bucket curled back some.
Great video! I always learn from your videos. Now if I can remember everything you teach!
Neil: “Ooooor, if we can sell you some new loader cylinders” haha!
Its amazing I've been doing it wrong for 35 years never knew that could happen
Thank you! Perfect timing of this video. I’m going to visit a few dealers this weekend and this info is a huge help. Many of your other videos have as well. Keep them coming please! Sorry I’m too far away to purchase from you.
An operator taught me to use the back edge of the bucket keeping the bucket level when back dragging.
that's probably the safest way to do it however the dirt may pile up quite a bit thus may damage your bucket hitch mechanism or at least pack it with dirt.
If you plan on doing a lot of back dragging, the cutting edge is easier to replace than the bucket.....
If I go extreme bucket angle while back dragging I usually just float the loader at that point …then roll the bucket as needed to get an even spread!
So here it is in Nov 2020 and it has been a crazy year to say the least. I have also discovered that it has been a crazy sales year for my local Kubota dealership here in Alanson Michigan. I drive by the dealership several times each year and the lot always has row upon row of brand new tractors of all sizes. This year is different because even though it started with rows of tractors the lot is almost empty. I understand it has been one of the best sales years ever even with this damn covid. I am one of the customers myself as I bought a brand new BX 1880 but can not get the quick change loader bucket till January or February which doesn't make me happy but I don't have much of a choice unless I wait for next years model. Have you seen the same issue?
Just as Nick said I almost always float backwards. you can control everything using the curl of the bucket! From scraping to smoothing.
Thanks for your teaching
EXCELLENT VIDEO. THANKS FOR SHARING THIS TIP. HOPE I REMEMBER TO DO AS YOU SAY. THANKS FOR YOUR TIME. N/E ARKANSAS.
Good point ...Thank You !
The front tires usually have more traction when they’re on the ground
Good video - thanks for the tip.
I can totally see your point if you’re really doing a finish pass, but for knocking large piles down I’ve always had the problem where the loader just rides over the pile unless I have the bucket fully curled under. And no, the boom lever isn’t in the float position. I’m not sure why it does it.
Great tip! Thank you so much
I kind of did that automatically. Lucky me. Still good info. Tks.
You said it Neil!
Thanks for the tips. Lots of us women are using these too.
Wow, TYVM for that very usefull tip.
Use the back edge of the bucket.
Great information!!!
Have you ever seen SSQA tapered pins actually bend or disengaging because of back dragging? While the bucket is flat to the ground and back dragging, the main thing that holds the bottom of the bucket in place are the pins. Thanks!
Not if they are properly engaged. It's not hard though to not have a good fit on some off brand buckets.
Another great informational video!
Great video! I always learn from your videos. Me too!
Depending on bucket shape, you can sometimes back drag without rolling it at all, you use the next edge around to drag with. Same when pushing, you can tilt the bucket back and push a bit with that same back edge of the bucket.
Just remember you dont have to back drag in one pass. And some weight in the bucket helps (peice of concrete, some gravel or good size rock(s).
Another useful tip
Another lesson thanks
Good video as always👍
good to know. Thx !
Guess I've been doing it the wrong way for years and years. Lol never caused any damage. The loader frame handles the forces anyways.
Please can I get your what's up number
Blow a hydraulic line while under load and see where the force is.
Super video. Thanks!
Please can I get your what's up number
What about "plowing" forward?
Why not just put your boom in the float position?
Because it will just ride over the pile. I find I need only the bucket to be flat to back drag, unless I'm trying to back-scrap, then I use more of the edge. I feel safe doing this because I'm just gathering the remnants of a pile.
thnksno Exactly! Sometimes float will do, but most of the time I need the weight of the tractor bearing down to get results.
Dumb question but what setting do you have that increases the RPM only when your moving and your not manually increasing the throttle ?
its called Auto-Throttle. On any Kubota that has an HST+ transmission
You definitely should not be picking the front wheels up off the ground, either. If you have to back-drag so much that you have to un-curl your bucket more than halfway, you're doing it wrong. I was always taught that back-dragging is only to make it easier to get the final little bits of a pile without pushing it too far, or to make things look good. If you're back-dragging to make things smooth, you're doing it wrong. It takes a while to get the hang of, but you should be working the dirt going forward to make it smooth; back-drag to make it look good.
A trick I've learned is to set my bucket on the ground, set the level indicator, then actually have the bucket back just a hair from level while driving forward, until I get a feel for the right amount of curl for smooth grading going forward. It's easier to take slightly more material on a second or third pass than it is to re-lay that material if you take too much. I also see people (and am still guilty of this, myself, on occasion) put way too much down-pressure when trying to work dirt, going forward. Your bucket should just barely be laying on the ground, allowing the slop in the pivot pins to make up for minor differences. Once you put too much force downward, you lose your steering. If you start cutting more material away than you want, curl before lift... Use your steering as your guide for when you should lift rather than curl; if you can't steer, you need to lift, slightly.
I'm no expert, myself, but I do have a fair amount of time on a loader. Perhaps someone with more experience could provide more details, or even a video (I'm sure there're even some out there, I'm just too lazy to look, lol).
But Tractor Time Tim said it was impossible to bend the bucket cylinders while back dragging.
hes just a guy that plays with a few toy tractors. I doubt he really knows...
@@FarmMan8802YTChannel He's typically a peaceful dude. I must have hit a nerve with him on back dragging, his response was rather curt. Then of course all his droolers chimed in. Lol.
We all know that his Finance in committee will not allow for a new cylinder.
I’m a lot like you, I like to play also I just don’t have a hole lot to pick my toys from! Lol I’m jealous!!!
Float 👍
Hey Neil, is there a floating blade feature for the BX23S as an option or stock feature? Thank you sir. Great videos.
Pretty well all blades float
Neil, is it fine for the machine to back drag until the wheels come off the ground? I've noticed when I do that and let off you can see the area where the locks are located flex back and forth a bit.
yea, no problem.
@@MessicksEquip okay great, thanks. I only have 14hrs so far, so just learning the the do's and don'ts of my tractor. I find myself using low range for pretty much everything as I almost never hear the whine in low. I use high only to drive faster while not using any implements.
If its 4wd the wheels off the ground isn’t a good thing, only makes less traction.
If rwd only ,it might help.
Neil how about a video of and horror of mounting a m4011 to a M7060 subframe 🤘
Unlikely to have one here... design is not that unique though.
What happened to good deals Monday🤔🤔🤔🤔
Didn't you do one of these before?
Not selling enough cylinders!!! LOL ☺
Neil, ever use dual brakes when back dragging?
For steering? Or what?
Work the bucket heel as much as possible,sometimes you have to do things the questionable way,but limit the abuse as much as possible,it will save you thousands down the road.this equipment ain't cheap.I refuse to rent out,or hire an extra man unless im real busy for the above videod reasons alone.
CrampsAway for Her commercial before the video .... looks like the UA-cam algorithm is snorting coke again.
what about dragging things backwards? hooking to the frontend loader, and backing up to pull something
that's not a good use for the frontend loader, right? could you go into what might be safe for the tractor vs. potentially more likely to damage or ?
it's Mack from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
What if I want to break my loader while back dragging?
Move on. wrong video.
no name 👉👈
You have my permission to do so, Joe!
DIY My Way thank you very much. I shall now go attempt to back drag some dirt over top of some stumps, using an extreme bucket angle and adding as much down pressure as possible.
Women use tractors too! 😁 But I enjoyed the video
Even trade for my L3901 for that L47?
Already learned this the hard way, $2000 later, here I am....
What kinda jabroni extends their bucket all the way during back dragging...am I right Mac?
jabroni, that's exactly the right word here. Thank you, I almost forgot that great addition to our language!
Yeah... who would ever do such a thing (cough cough)
Jabroni, Damn jabronies...! Lol
Hey Neil can you tell us what happened to the Kubota TLB that is behind your shop in Elizabethtown. Forget the model number. Was there the other day and that thing is toast.
The M62? Customer hit a bridge.
Messick's ouch!
Anyone, measure your load and post it on your dash, pay attention to bridge height signs. Bridges get expensive to fix.
@@akbychoice we did not hit it, a customer did
Messick's wasn’t pointing it to you, I saw what you wrote. There, it’s fixed.
Farther not further
Also, don't back drag with hay forks on the front...I broke two cylinders in half doing it. Don't be me.
Float your loader less chance of any kind of damage.
Been back dragging daily for 15+ years landscaping, got lucky I guess. Starting fresh in the morning.
Your tractor must be a Kubota ;)
Wrong. The answer is to add 4" cylinders, then sister on some 1" plates to the loader frame. There is no excuse for Cheap manufacturing, or having to baby the damned tractor. Try again...
Lol is ther enything you can do with a loader from you guys?!?!?!
Only back drag when you can’t move it in a forward motion.
grading......?
Your gonna back drag without teeth also your front wheels where up haha if you wanna pay ill give you a few lessons
1st
2nd :)