The Problem with Bodyweight Training.
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2018
- The problem with modern calisthenics. Not so much about bodyweight training itself but how modern calisthenics is done and what is left undone. 5 PROBLEMS WITH CALISTHENICS (BLOG ARTICLE) ➞ bit.ly/problem-with-calisthenics
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Hi there, my name is Eero Westerberg and I am the head coach here at VAHVA Fitness. Our specialty lies in mixing the Western and Eastern knowledge of health and fitness together into a combination that actually works, is proven and produces real tangible results.
We developed our methods by studying health & wellness and strength & conditioning for over a decade. We also traveled the world for over 3 years researching different ancient methods of strengthening and taking care of the human body.
READ OUR FULL STORY ➞ bit.ly/vahva-story
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I see this often. Many calisthenics practitioners become very one dimensional in their training. After developing a solid base built by calisthenics I started incorporating many weighted movements, now my training is 50% calisthenics and 50% weighted resistance and the results have been great.
I use mainly bodyweight but how I use weights is very different. It's not really about bodyweight vs. weights but HOW you use them and your underlining training methodology. Bodyweight + weights training can be as dysfunctional as weights alone or bodyweight alone.
Hybrid Athletix I don't think his point was weight Vs bodyweight his was point was the limited training philosophy we all tend to fall in. It's just like like life like sex like eating humans tend to pick up habits and do not brake away or think outside the box. I agree there is so much versatility in training it's all essentially limitless depending on where u wanna go with bodyweight the habits are more prevalent due to the lack of interest from the sports, and fitness world. There is not much interest because because it's far less lucrative and essential more difficult for the normal person even though it's promoted as the other way around. This then leaves those who use primarily bodyweight training far less accountable for there habits that's what he is getting at. For instance I trained with guys who never lifted weight ever there some of the biggest ripped natural guys I know but I had to stop training with them because they pretty trained only uppermost 7 days in a row whenever I tried to introduce lowerbody work they quit and never wanted to train there legs big issue in my book that's what he is addressing
Hybrid Athletix and also u can use one training method and not being one dimensional especially given the fact that the strength and endurance is very transferable. U can train for power, aesthetics, strength, endurance, stability, flexibility,skill all through bodyweight only if u know how to program it properly most don't program or structure their training at all especially with bodyweight
Yes but you don't have a job
VAHVA Fitness so how do you use bodyweight and weights in conjunction?
5 problems with modern calisthenics (PLEASE READ!) ➞ bit.ly/problem-with-calisthenics
Here is also my training montage from a couple of years ago because for calisthenics people this is how you prove yourself to others: ua-cam.com/video/YYX7yynqSxw/v-deo.html (includes a +44 kg pistol squat, 40 kg press and a lot more, +55 lbs muscle up in this video ua-cam.com/video/I34uQf2K3rE/v-deo.html).
I am not talking about the subject as an outsider, I was actually IN IT and that's how I realized many of the problems of calisthenics that are featured in the blog article.
you are the best Eero
I take it you haven't read Convict Conditioning then?
I read it like 6+ years ago and cannot recommend it. A fat internet marketer could have created it. No one knows who Paul Wade is because it's a fake name and he is using a model to do the exercises in the book.
It's basically just progressions for different bodyweight skills with no proper understanding of how to build up the structure of the body and no videos of the exercises (the most important part). It has the same 5 problems as the modern calisthenics. The Convict Conditioning is fun when you are getting started but it's not a good long term strategy.
I see.
I started calisthenics 3+ years ago and I really hurt myself doing pullups; I now have daily headaches from an occipital muscle injury , so I do understand what you're saying about modern calisthenics.
However ,I read CC 6 months ago and it changed the way I train; Paul Wade's method recommends that you master the basics before moving on to harder exercises . Personally, I like the simplicity of only having 6 exercises . I have found it good physio, and good for correcting my imbalances too. Perhaps this is down to my becoming more mindful of how I train but I feel like I learned this from the book.
I will check out your vids and try to learn more of your philosophy; its intriguing to me ,but I still don't understand what it is that the CC method is lacking .
Mastering the basics is certainly the step in the right direction and I think CC has good elements to it. I think the biggest problems still are that it focuses strongly on progressive overload with progressions, it doesn't focus properly on the quality of the form (because there is no video) and it's still quite limiting as a whole. How a basic exercise is done is the most important thing - if you can apply the quality principles (mindfulness) to exercises of CC, it can already help tremendously.
Well if you decide to stop progressing and stick to the same mouvement then it's your fault, but virtually nobody does that... What about levers in calisthenics? The balance aspect? The more complex moves? I really think that this information given out is not true
Progressive bodyweight training is fundamentally flawed just like progressive weight training like powerlifting is. It's not sustainable and will lead to imbalances and injuries. Most calisthenics trainers have already had bad injuries in their 20s. They will be like many powerlifters in their 30-50s with broken joints and filled imbalances with "no pain, no gain" and "I am a tough guy" attitude thinking the increase in their skill/lift will be worth the sacrifice.
i see your point. I remember hannibal for king hanging with some germans and they had to fix his imbalances because it was hurting his back from what i remember. And hannibal can do some crazy stuff. But they always outlined the importance of having proper form than trying to crank out reps so i don't know.
Proper form prevents injuries in the moment but in the long term (imbalances, chronic joint pain) what counts the most is the whole nature of the training itself (methods, selection of exercises, frequency and so on). I have been around since Hannibal and most calisthenics trainers have had bad injuries (or continue to have) over the years. If the trainer is getting hurt from his own training style, and he should know his training the best, it's not a good sign.
@@Vahvafitness so what is yout advice if one wants to train doing pike/hspu, bodyrows, pullups, dips, pushups? How can one avoid these imbalances and injuries?
Okay, interesting points that you put out there, and I read your whole article too which did not change my mind at all in how flawed your points were. First of you say that calisthenics is one-dimensional and in no way is it one-dimensional. Yes, calisthenics does have fundamentals that you pointed out, those being: push ups, dips, squats, pull ups, and handstand work. Now those are FUNDAMENTALS they are not the ONLY exercises in calisthenics. In calisthenics there are a whole lot of variations of those fundamentals like Hindu push ups, pistol squats, Ice cream makers, Korean Dips, and handstand shoulder taps just to name a few. There are over hundreds of variations of the fundamentals and to say that it is one-dimensional is incorrect in every form especially because EVERY training style has fundamentals and variations of those fundamentals. For example lets look at bodybuilding there are some movements that weight lifters do not even stray from and they just keep adding weight and more weight and more weight and based on your argument that is one-dimensional in its self. Now lets move on to another point, that being that calisthenics practitioners are wrong in their training advice. Now this point kind of has me cracking up because in your article you say that you guys are not like that and you even try to sell your program in your article which destroys all your credibility. You try to put every calisthenics practitioner in a box and just say that "they do not know how to properly strength train". That just make you sound arrogant and very ignorant too. Also I think you are stroking your ego a little too hard their buddy, especially when you say modern calisthenics is all about ego now a days. And now to correct your assumptions about calisthenics practitioners let me name some that actually do know how to properly strength train, those people being: Chris Heria/Thenx, Austin Dunham, Kowtyn Igor, Frank Medrano, Andrea Larossa, calisthenicmovement, fitnessfaq, and caliathenics. All those people know how to properly strength train, but according to you no one in the calisthenics community really knows except you which again arrogant and ignorant. Another thing, none of those guys have ever said that body weight training is better than weight training, and in fact some even do it and endorse it. Also about methodology and getting injured, if you taken a look at any of the people that I mentioned then you would know that they promote proper training with correct form to minimize injuries and not a lot of them have gotten injured either. Also it is very sustainable because most of them have done it for 3 years plus and continue to do it. Now going to another point you hit on is that in calisthenics you can not properly isolate, and that is true but that does not mean it is not a good training style in fact sometimes it is better to do compound movements than isolated movements and gives you a more rounded build than overly powerful in one part of your body. Now that does not mean that compound movements are the best, as you say that a lot of calisthenics practitioners say that, which is again ignorant in your part to say that they all say that. It is all about the persons goals and what they desire their body to look like, sometimes one is better than the other, and to add to that let me say that their is no best training style and yours is not best either. Sorry to say that because you really like to emphasize that in your article that you guys do everything properly. And to end it off let me say that your whole point is to get clicks and to get attention to yourself and in no way did you make valid strong points. All you really did was brag how good your program was and how wrong everyone else is. Now I can be wrong too I am not a perfect human being, and I am certainty not going to brag about how my side is right and yours is wrong. In the end this is a conversation but I just think that all that you said was just a way to get attention to yourself and to your program and you really did not put up very well thought out points. Hope you enjoyed the read and hopefully you read this as well because I read your very long article.
The one-dimensional point was just like a very small flaw showing that calisthenics isn't even as functional and as complete as people think. The style is portrayed as something for ultimate strength when in reality it's not good for functionality (but you have been taught otherwise). No one barely does any open chain movements in calisthenics.
The real problem is that modern calisthenics it's not sustainable. Progressive bodyweight training is fundamentally flawed just like progressive weight training (i.e. powerlifting) is. All these trainers preach the same thing and prioritize skill training whether they know it or not.
Search their background + it's hard to confess about injuries. I don't know all of them but many calisthenics trainers have already had injuries in their 20s when their bodies are the most elastic. They will be like many powerlifters in their 30-50s: filled with joint problems and imbalances. Yet they keep going with the “no pain no gain” and “I am a tough guy” attitude thinking the increase in their lift/skill will be worth the sacrifice.
I did calisthenics before 20s and in my early 20s and over the years I have had countless guys coming from calisthenics background with elbow and shoulder problems. Not so much knee problems for the obvious reason.
Also, just to avoid the elementary level logical fallacy: just because there are few guys who have done calisthenics for a long time without problems doesn’t mean most people will have the same luck or that the system is sustainable as a whole.
My next video / article should make more sense. The problem is that modern calisthenics guys lack the framework of proper strength training altogether. I am not saying I am the only person who understands it but I doubt there is anyone on UA-cam who does. The best coaches are not UA-cam because they are older generation. The information on internet in general is not good. Real secrets are trade secrets.
The problem is that the entire perspective/worldview of calisthenics practitioners is flawed because you all have been indoctrinated for years. I recommend joining a yoga or a pilates class. That training is already at a much higher level and there are no skills in sight.
Now that I have received more comments and had time to think about this in more detail. Here is the actual problem with modern calisthenics:
=== Modern calisthenics is a sport like breakdancing or arm wrestling. More comprehensive than arm wrestling but it's not a real system for strengthening the body. The big lie is to think calisthenics is real strength training and actual functional training for health and performance ===
Calisthenics should be treated as a sport and when it comes to sports, sports can be rough on the body but sports are still fun to do. Most sports are good for the body but not complete and not designed for longevity. My style of training is not a sport. What I do is actual strength training for health + performance FOR life (sports, dance, martial arts, any physical activity) so you can be competent in all realms of fitness.
If you want to do calisthenics for the sake of sport, then there is ZERO problem. My concern is that a lot of people are not getting out of calisthenics what they actually desire: functional performance (calisthenics guys will disagree with this), optimal posture & health and crossover to their sport/martial art/dance/everything else.
Calisthenics is mostly skill training (it's a sport again): bit.ly/skill-vs-strength
Calisthenics practitioners are covered in the same delusions as powerlifters who think their system is the best way to strengthen the body when in reality it's also a sport and HORRIBLE for real performance and even worse for health and longevity.
There are certain religious axioms in calisthenics that everyone agrees: for example that it's in fact complete (people aren't just aware of their weaknesses because they stick to their sport), that it's functional (it's actually not very functional at all - I will cover this in a future video) and that it is actual strength training (it's a sport).
Here is a simple test: adductor plank (link below). This is a SIMPLE bodyweight movement and mostly strength, no skill. Some calisthenics guys can probably do this but the vast majority will have problems in their scapula stability (shaking uncontrollably) and weakness in their obliques and inner thighs. And this is a bodyweight exercise.
ua-cam.com/video/kWRuP1QVDgE/v-deo.html
@@Vahvafitness watch?v=B-RXzXChEgk do you really think that this type of training is limiting the person that is training?
@@kalistenika9649 Yes, absolutely. That video is 100% closed chain bar exercises like almost all street workouts. I just had a chat with Steve Maxwell who shares similar views: www.vahvafitness.com/steve-maxwell-fear-of-death/
@@Vahvafitness please decide wheter calisthenics is a skill or strength activity. Your point is not solid. You only mean that calisthrnics is exercises like push ups, pull ups,squats and shit but that's okay and that is one part of the equasion, so yes that is strength training amd it is fine. Calistgenics in my definition is everything bodyweight like yoga, sports(swimming,running,skiing). Some of them are strength + skill and some of them are just skill like yoga.
Just make a difference.
You want to tell me that calisthenics,gymnast type of training is not healthh amd functional if it is done properly amd safely ? Damn son that's a tough sales strategy.
I also do aninal flow, is that healthy ?
Very good points. I started incorporating "hard style" Qigong into my programs, basically doing any movement you like, with as much tension as you can possibly muster in all your muscles. I can smoke my entire body in 45 seconds flat with full tension and small movements.
Thanks, qigong is no joke. People don't realize how effective qigong and yoga are because they have never done it (or done correctly).
Hi Eero i'm a big fan and you have actually helped me a lot in this past years with all the knowledge you put out here, don't pay attention to all these butthurt guys that don't understand you arent saying that EVERYONE in calisthenics trains like this. Please Eero don't stop helping thank you and i'm looking forward to your next video
There are so many variations possible with bodyweight exercises when combined with olympic rings & resistance bands. The 360 degree pull with strict form for example, that one hits EVERY muscle pretty much & hits them hard. V-sit to handstand swing repped out with pause at top of each on the dip bar is a good warm-up for it.
Just because every muscle gets trained, doesn't mean they are properly engaged and trained in a balanced way. My biggest problem with modern calisthenics is that none of these skills barely transfer to anything outside the rings / bars - and prioritizing skill development is not sustainable. More info in this blog post: bit.ly/problem-with-calisthenics
Thank you for educating us!
No problem!
Thanks for all this information!!!
No problem!
Great insight and advice. Cheers
amazing vid bro. valid points!
Thanks man!
Im in Yoga in daily life for 3 years now.
Accent is allways on train smart, slow n relax. Not to get hurt is a must have!
Had a mild brain stroke 4 years ago.
When at work I feel strog n full of energy I cout that day perfect.
Because I feel strong, Im not tired.
That alone is for me a healthy day.
Yoga is not perfect but I can make it so!
Allways train smart.
Not over d pain.
Sounds good, keep doing what you are doing but it's good to keep an open mind for different ways of training as well!
Great point there my Man, i agree with it :)
Thank you Nils!
AWESOME 👍🍀
THANKS SO MUCH.
Thank you as well Markus!
After watching more of your videos i understood what you want to say, makes sense :) Tnx
Thank you Aleks N.
Nice point. Which exercise doesn't matter. How you approach matters. The reason what I train with body weight is that you don't have to pay for a gym numbership. I don't understand why I pay when I work really hard.
I don't like paying whenever I workout.
I agree with Eero saying here about certain skill based bodyweight movements causes more wear and tear even imbalances on the body like things like One arm chin pull ups front levers and handstands all the people i hear who train them got elbow wrist shoulder issues. More than those who do weighted movements. Not saying that weighlifting dosent cause injuries too. But The statistics isnt as that high. Overuse injuries exists both in weightlifting bodybuilding and calisthenics if your body cant keep up at the tempo at adapting!. But i also agree with Eero here that isolation exercises work have its place for structucal balance. Like direct isolation arm shoulder work for preventing or even protecting against overuse injuries. And even rehab benefits. Alot of elite athletes from swimmers olympic weightlifters sprinters tennis players soccer players and alot of other sport elite athletes include isolation exercises for structure balance. It may is worth if your achieve a thing like One arm pull up or planche front lever but is the wear and tear on the joints worth it!.
I don't think front lever causes any elbow wrist or shoulder issues, planche and handstands i can see more.
I agree in part. Personally, I prefer training with body weight /calisthenics and calisthenics with added weight. I find it very functional. I do not like free weights or machines (I use them very little)
Ultimately it's not about weights vs. bodyweight but how you use them. How modern calisthenics is generally done (in 99% cases) is not sustainable and healthy because it's very narrow, one dimensional and prioritizes skill development. Bodyweight alone can be used properly if it's done correctly (very rare). The major 5 problems are stated in this blog post: bit.ly/problem-with-calisthenics
VAHVA Fitness where do you get your numbers from? Not all people train calisthenics like the people on UA-cam. I know a lot of people combining calisthenics, weights and other activities. Also if you train open minded there’s basically an exercise for every angle you can imagine. For the shoulder movement you showed u can also do iron cross raises, Maltese, Victorian cross. You can change the intensity and the control by using resistance bands and progressions.
"You can also do iron crosses, maltetes, victorian cross". Haha my man.
Modern calisthenics is a sport like breakdancing or arm wrestling. A bit more comprehensive than arm wrestling but it's not a real system for strengthening the body. It should be treated as a sport and when it comes to sports, it can be rough on the body but sports are still fun to do. My style of training is not a sport. What I do is actual strength training for health + performance FOR life (sports, martial arts, any physical activity) so you can be competent in all realms of fitness.
VAHVA Fitness okay I’ve read more comments of you and I get your point. Yes, I do calisthenics as a sport and not strength training. I also play volleyball so I train my legs in different angles and do a lot of explosive movements. I feel that this combination gives me a strong core, strong legs and a strong upper body. I’d like to hear your opinion on what exercises I should incorporate in my style of training to get the best of it. I also know that this style of training is not sustainable in the long run but I want to challenge my body at a younger age and when I feel that the time has come I will change to easier, more sustainable training.
there is more than one way to skin a cat as the old folks used to say
I mainly do my bodyweight training for sport activities such as swimming, climbing, running, mountain biking and so on. Any thoughts just out of curiosity?
Sounds good as long as the bodyweight training mainly focuses on improving health, posture and overall strength/mobility of the body
Good information. Your english is excellent btw
Thank you Panduranga
good tips👍 nice house btw
Thank you Tvov
I am kind of confused right now, so, does Calisthenics damage your joints in general or only under certain conditions like muscle imbalances?
I‘m searching for a proper way to get fit and stay fit (and muscular) in the long run.
Thank you very much and sorry for my inept comment 😬.
Calisthenics will not damage you by itself, it's all how you do them. The modern calisthenics movements are flawed in their methodology (HOW the exercises are done, how often and how they progress). Basically, all methods that PRIMARILY focus on external factors such as adding weight or bodyweight progressions will eventually damage the body.
VAHVA Fitness First of all - thank you very much! But I’m still confused, do you have any tips to fix these flaw exercises and do you have any example or explanation for bodyweight progression (seems to be all progression done in Calisthenics)?
I have developed severe knee pain in both legs any suggestions on exercises to strengthen knees
Balanced and complete leg, hip and core training.
Absolutely right. The fitness gurus you find on social media tend to teach based on this limited, unidimensional mindset and, what is worse, are trying to sell calisthenics as "functional" training (it is worth asking why we never see top-notch athletes like Cristiano Ronaldo, LeBron James or Khabib doing planches or levers if they're so "functional")
Maybe instead of just talking about it, you could have demonstrated what practical strength applications you can do that calisthenics doesn't develop.
It's not very convincing just to say "calisthenics is incomplete". What can be achieved that they cannot achieve training that way?
Try this exercise: ua-cam.com/video/kWRuP1QVDgE/v-deo.html
It pretty much covers many problems already. Most calisthenics guys wouldn't be able to do this without their scapula (shoulder) shaking uncontrollably. Obliques are also weak as well as the inner thighs. This is just 1 example among many.
Modern calisthenics is a sport like breakdancing and arm wrestling. More comprehensive than arm wrestling but it's still not a complete system of strengthening and taking care of the body.
What is your height, weight, age?
Do you sell DVDS that showcase a solid foundational approach towards complete body fitness? I know you mentioned traveling the world with your friend trying to find answers, so wasting my time adding techniques or styles in pursuit of eclecticism is foolish after hearing you out. Just curious. You've got a gem of a channel
How can you get more cut legs with Calisthenics?? I'd do it I'm sure I could get my skills if my legs got slightly bigger but how? Running, sprinting idk?
Sprinting is good but controlled slow leg exercises will help. You don't need to add weight
The key to physical progression - and its ultimate result: performance progression - lies in training.
For overall health and wellness Calisthenics and Isometrics is the very best you can do for your body, on top of nutrition. If truly your body is the temple you call home and the vessel with which you experience this world's festival which is creation . If it is health that is real wealth and not pieces of gold and silver... Then why are you adding weights, and protein shakes and dead lifts and all this weird stuff that doesn't really make you supple, leaner, more flexible, stronger, faster. It stops being useful. Functional. I have seen body builder not being able to put shoes on, much less tie them. They have to use long shoe horns because their mobility is shit. Their body is not useful, not functional. It's unnatural and became that way by not moving. The people who can bench press three times their body weight, are strong? Can they actually replicate that in nature. In the real world? Idk I haven't seen it, maybe.
Yes, weights are super useful when it comes to certain endurance training and stability. I think the problem with different training methods, styles or schools of thought or however you want to call it, it's the way its done in general. Your particular approach and each individual practitioner. No matter what diet/life-style you're on we should all agree that optimal nutrition is one that is varied and exposes you to multiple different nutrients, fuels and raw material and molecules that are building blocks for our bodies that our bodies can't make themselves. So it must be with training
TL;DR
The problem with bodyweight stuff is you need moar weights BRUH
No Isolation? No long negatives? You a pussy Bro?
Why is everyone so triggered?
This is just so dumb. Of course you get injured and break your joints with calisthenics if you perform exercises like pistol squat with 44kg like you did in the video of the article.
Many guys actually train like that! That was just a show off clip. In reality, even if I were to stick to +10-20kg pistol squats (which aren't too heavy for me), it would still be garbage. Also, it's not just going heavy but the whole system of calisthenics that is problematic.
Like even simple things like training volume & frequency are all messed up. A lot of people do pull ups 3-7 times per week. In reality, 1-2 times per week is enough and you don't even need to do them every week.
Yes, I know there are many people who train like that but adding too much weight on exercises like pistol squat. When you are doing that exercise you put all that extra weight + your own bodyweight on that one knee and soon you get knee injuries. Same goes for pull-ups and dips with extra weights, you get too much pressure on hands and elbows.
I have friends who do weighted calisthenics and who do bodyweight training only. Most of the people who train mostly without weights get fewer or no injuries (Of course freestyle training causes some injuries).
Also, in my opinion, it's more motivating to train for a skill and achieving it from training hard towards it than pumping iron in the gym and watching yourself flex into the mirror after every time you've done 5 reps.
Hahahah 3:40 the cinematography threw me off
So which type of training is most fucntional ? I do not get it. I am thinking of giving up with training jist becouse nothing is safe and healthy. If i am not gonna do anything it will preserve my joints anf bones.
Training that prioritizes health, posture and performance. Most ways of training focus on skills/weight at the expense of the body. Skills and weight are fine but they should be the secondary focus after the main work is done. We share the same ideology with Steve Maxwell: www.vahvafitness.com/steve-maxwell-fear-of-death/
Spent 4 years only with calisthenics. It was fun but it leads to injury and gets boring after some time. Glad I found movement20XX
Awesome, and everyone hits a wall and the only good way is to evolve
You must’ve been very mediocre
VAHVA Fitness don’t spread Lies only weak people hit walls go to New York go to Brooklyn and hit the park then tell me about walls
EduceMe always. The only way I know how to improve is to realize my own mediocrity.
Philip Duarte I can’t believe you said you got bored calisthenics is the best exercise a man can do, the weights in the gym ain’t bout shit. And I got great numbers bench press of 375,incline 315, heavy curls I look great but I got bored it’s no challenge in it for me ...but every man can’t do muscle ups, back lever,front lever, handstands, 35 pull-ups straight, 50 dips straight, planches, dope tricks on the bar it takes a crazy mindset to be able to do this and your body is much healthier and I look way better than any gym rat facts and I’m natural 😏
There’s no problem with body weight training, it’s not one dimensional as one can make the same argument for using weight machines end lifting all this weight because there’s literally no other movement you can do, if you want to isolate muscles then yes using weight machines and dumb bells will do that but when you use your body it’s limitless you can do a variety of things you can move your body about freely and not bogged down by a machine. And people thing you don’t use weights in body weight training you can, there are weight vests, resistant bands and all these different things to make it more difficult to progress even further I find that I am able to progress strength wise more quickly using both callisthenics and weighted calesthenics and no one said you can’t lift weights now and again if you want to like I started doing body pump classes at least once a week and different classes when I want to do something different but at my core I practice callisthenics/weighted. But to say it’s one dimensional is ridiculous, it’s far from it.
If you do resistance bands, use some weights and join different fitness classes, then you are already doing it better than almost everyone else. I am a huge promoter of bodyweight training but not the skill training of modern calisthenics (street workout).
You looking good Eero, thought you were going to swim....please swim already😅..The haircut and beard suits you
Thank you Darkmid9t, it's actually quite chilly here so I would rather not swim!
I’m so lost. So your saying pushups, pull-ups, squats are bad. So that means don’t even workout. Don’t strengthen any muscle?
Calisthenics will not damage you by itself, it's all how you do them. The modern calisthenics movements are flawed in their methodology (HOW the exercises are done, how often and how they progress). Basically, all methods that PRIMARILY focus on external factors such as adding weight or bodyweight progressions will eventually damage the body.
Truly? Really? Awesome. 👏
So how do you think we should train?
In a way that prioritizes health, posture and performance - not stunts and skills. Stunts and skills should come secondary, which they unfortunately do not for most people who do calisthenics. People destroy their bodies to learn skills they may not even have the body type to learn to impress people they don't like. On a large principle level I agree with Steve Maxwell: www.vahvafitness.com/steve-maxwell-fear-of-death/
@@Vahvafitness I understand. A lot of it is risking injury for end result and for superficial reasons. I'll check out the video
Which calisthenic skills are not worth it? (Back lever, human flag, planche, hefesto, maltese, victorian etc.)?
A skill that have absolutely no transfer to any other skill
Hello! When we were growing up, some old school trainers told us body weight is the only long term + most natural way to work out. And we believed it. But I dont think this is true. Im beginning to learn that all movements, pull n push, speed n control... just about everything will help you develop into better than before. One dimensional training, even the best course is limiting to the body coz the BODY IS LIMITLESS!! 💪💪💪
This is true, there really are no limitations and shouldn't be.
This sounds like it can be a bit confusing.
So what do you think of professional gymnastics since they prioritize skill training? Or is it just a problem with street workout because they don't know the proper foundation to perform those skills?
Correct, it's mostly a problem with the street workout because people don't yet understand the separation between strength training and skill training (they think skill training is strength training). They are continuously trying to develop the skills without properly building the foundational structure. This limits the progress and breaks the body in the long run.
Pro gymnasts spend most of their day-to-day time on strength training. For example, a pro gymnast called William Broman posts clips of his daily workouts to Instagram and most of his training is what people would call "accessory work". But even gymnasts have problems because it's a competition driven sport and they have to push their bodies more than a regular person would ever need to.
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To be honest with you: I don’t really know what kind of modern Calisthenics movements do you mean?
I understand that all that flipping on the bar and so on is kind of not really that good for your body.
But what do you think about pistol squats, planches, human flags for example?
It's really the whole system that is the problem: everything is focused on (cool) skills and not actually developing the body.
For example, why do all calisthenics trainees DOMINANTLY focus on pistol squats, shrimp squats and nordic hamstring curls to train the legs? Nothing wrong with these exercises per se but very basic exercises such as slow tempo squats, lunges and other unsexy leg exercises actually work better in many instances: ua-cam.com/video/s8YFeHAUaOI/v-deo.html
VAHVA Fitness got it so it’s not about all exercises being flawed but rather being less effective and more skill based
Thank you for your explanation!
You said with the 3rd problem in the article that people get hurt by doing calisthenics and that it's not sustainable. But yet you fail to mention what people do in calisthenics that get themselves hurt. By the way "calisthenics" is a broad term. There is strength calisthenics, conditioning work, and alignment work. Knowing how to organize your program lower the chances of getting injured. You don't always have to use weights. And not everyone will train for the same goal that they might have in mind.
T Shirt suits you!
Thanks! It was a random purchase from an Australian aboriginal store haha
The bodyweight training isn't meant to isolate any joint movement...that's the beauty of it....you need isolation(have much time on your hands) use gym machines. Use Bodyweight to train more than one muscle groups and benefit from it in any other sport.
Not only that, but if you really want to isolate with bodyweight training you can do it perfectly will by using a suspension trainer or gymnastics rings...
You actually need to have targeted and precise training to fully the work the body, fill the gaps and target the weak links. Full body movements are excellent and necessary but not sufficient
What the fuck is this guy talking about, i listened to 5 minutes of rumbling where he repeated 2 things 20 times. And he said that there are way more options to build your legs than your upper body in calisthenics, wtf? There are literally thousands of things you can do that can target your upper body... and pull ups are very hard???
This guy made an attractive clickbait title "The Problem with Bodyweight Training."
like there are billions of videos with the problem with this the problem with that...maybe try to achieve something hard and see it for yourself. People should get in their heads that there are people who do not train for muscles and body look, the muscles come just as a bonus of training skills
Impossible to fit all the points in just one video. Here is a pretty thorough blog post about the 5 problems in modern calisthenics: bit.ly/problem-with-calisthenics
The reason modern calisthenics is one dimensional is the obsession with closed chain movements only. Your hands are always fixed. Gymnastic rings are a step in the right direction but still not enough.
Here is my training montage from a couple of years ago: ua-cam.com/video/YYX7yynqSxw/v-deo.html (includes a +44 kg pistol squat, 40 kg press and a lot more, +55 lbs muscle up in this video ua-cam.com/video/I34uQf2K3rE/v-deo.html), just to name a few. However, this is far from my biggest accomplishments. The biggest accomplishments you can see in my recent videos - they are just not big skills that I used to do.
As an ex-calisthenics practiticioner I cannot recommend it for anyone for the reasons listed in the article.
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Bro I agree with you today's calisthenics is not calisthenics is a show sport that you can be hurt
I don´t agree with you at all... Weight training does not give you real holistic strength, it is just "strength for show" in an isolated movement. I call fake strength because you can pick a guy who only lift weights, that guy that everyone in the gym would agree is the "strongest guy who lifts insane weights" and ask him to perform the calisthenics moves, he won´t be able to do it, because he does not have whole body functional strength. Only with calisthenics you build real strength, fitness, mobility and endurance. If you can´t do harder calisthenics movements with proper form (like the handstand push up or muscle ups) is because you still haven´t mastered some other basic moves leading to that harder move. And even when the hard gets easy, you can still make it harder somehow, either by wearing a weight vest, or doing exercises with a single arm or leg. There is always a way to make the move harder. People get injured not because "it is easier to get injured in calisthenics", but because of lack of proper preparation to make certain moves. People nowadays are too impatient to perform basic moves until they master them. IT is a slow progression.
Damned if you do, and damned if you dont.
good video man, keep working on your english though. Hard to understand had to double watch some parts
It's improving - not my native language, but this is very different information what people are used to so you probably need to watch it a couple of times to fully digest it.
I only speak english myself, so no hate man, keep up the good work
You need to watch re delta project, maybe you will learn something
Yeah, he needs to read the books by Matt Schifferle.
Well, not everyone is training the same way you do. Get over it?
Everyone can do what they want but how the people are presenting modern calisthenics is false + not sustainable. People can keep on doing what you are doing but in a few years these people will either give up or come back because their bodies are imbalanced and broken down.
MODERN CALISTHENICS:
1. No proper methodology
2. Not sustainable (you will hurt yourself)
3. All ego and skills / gimmicks
4. Not functional (transfers badly to anything outside the realm of calisthenics)
5. Covered in black and white thinking, lies and bad theories.
More info here: www.vahvafitness.com/the-problem-with-calisthenics/
Hi Jacob. Here is my training montage from a couple of years ago: ua-cam.com/video/YYX7yynqSxw/v-deo.html . It includes a +25 kg strict ring muscle up, +44 kg pistol squat, +40 kg press and a lot more.
I am not saying this video + article as an outsider. I was actually IN IT and experienced many of the problems of calisthenics myself. It's almost a scam because no one has the reference for the real thing.
I got pretty strong at a lot of stuff just to realize how meaningless it was, it wasn't sustainable and that it didn't really transfer well to anything.
People gauge others expertise and knowledge in terms of their development in meaningless skills without understanding that almost no pro athlete or coach can do these gimmicks (calisthenics guys aren't even close their level) and that the ability to thrive in these skills is mostly based on the person's physiology (height, body composition, muscle fiber type etc.).
For example, the more developed your hips and legs are, the harder it will be to do any planche or lever. Is this person weaker than someone who has skinny legs but can do a planche? Makes no sense. Gymnastics is also a short man sport for a reason.
But anyway, these skills aren't even a good standard for strength. My next video will touch on skill vs. strength training and make things more clear.
Love it. Nicely reply.
Hi Jacob, I have done bodyweight training and calisthenics for over 10 years. You need to understand the system of training as a whole - the exceptions don't make the rule. Height was only one of the listed attributes, not the only attribute.
Some gymnastic coaches actually understand proper strength training, no one in the modern calisthenics circles does. I don't want to discourage people other than that I would recommend hiring a good gymnastic coach if you want to pursue gymnastic skills.
Modern calisthenics was created by teenagers and young adults and they are playing with fire. The only way to learn the long term approach is to learn it from someone who has had decades of experience in the game (only some older gymnastic coaches).
I don't have time to discuss this further, but please read the bit.ly/problem-with-calisthenics for further info. I also touch on this skill vs strength training division in the next video.
Jacob Corrao You're so triggered. Get over it?
It's the problem with the people who use it that way... Not the sport it self
No, the system is the problem. But you said it right: it's a sport just like breakdancing or arm wrestling. It's not a complete system of strengthening and taking care of the body.
Tarzan ....... 😊
Wtf is he talking about
This is the problem. Most modern calisthenics guys have chosen certain axioms which they believe to be universally true and cannot understand anything outside of this. Some axioms include: "modern calisthenics are functional and complete".
Best
Thank you
I literally can't understand this guy.... :(
Watch it many times. New information takes time to digest.
WatchChannel Lower the playback speed to .75 and click for close caption. English is not my native language and I understand fine. He's trying and that's what matters.
Thanks. That helped actually. You should work on slowing down a bit then. Just some constructive criticism :-)
WatchChannel Glad it helped.
Jacob Corrao you're really taking you time to hate on someone, huh? Hope you're ok...
australian pull up
It's good but still very limited even if you use rings or TRX.
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🙏🙏🙏❤
calistenics and bodyweight is one dimensional????? hahahHa.... i laugh so hard
This is one of the religious beliefs of modern calisthenics. You just don't know what you are lacking and how many weaknesses/imbalances there are in the body left to fix/strengthen
im not religious. all i know is when i do weights i get bored and when i do calistenics i have to put in much more effort to coordinate myself to hold the position before even exerting any strength. to me its like running on a tredmill, i would literally run a marathon over running on a tredmill. no joke, i love jogging and im not a slim guy.
okay i dont have a credit card how the hell am i supposed to checkout your program?
i think ure not very open minded anyway since u put all the calisthenics methods and praticioners in one box
You can also link your bank account to PayPal. In the description we mention that I'm talking about modern calisthenics (street workout). Most of them do it badly, some just less because it's fundamentally flawed as a training system, in fact it's a sport.
It's not actually a problem with bw training, the problem is people who don't train smart, i've training calisthenics for two years, have friends who'v been doing this for more than five years, and we are ok and dont have imbalances problems.
The real problem is that you don't know how imbalanced and weak you are because you are mostly sticking to what you know. I was relatively high level at many different skills only to find out later that I had imbalances everywhere in the body (which are now mostly fixed). And I thought I was training smart too.
For many calisthenics guys joining a yoga class, doing MMA or CrossFit can be a humbling experience because you realize how many areas are lacking. I could take you through a simple circuit most calisthenics guys would barely survive.
VAHVA Fitness do u really think you know how i'm training? Indeed petulant.. but keep going, some people think that haughtiness is confidence, not rudeness
What I said was bluntly stated because I personally don't consider weaknesses a bad thing (then you can fix them) but unfortunately that happens to be the case for almost all practitioners who do mostly calisthenics. It's possible you are doing it good though because it's indeed all about the practitioner.
If you want, you can try this exercise: ua-cam.com/video/kWRuP1QVDgE/v-deo.html
It's an adductor plank. Very simple bodyweight exercise which is mostly just strength. If you find it uncomfortable and difficult to do for multiple repetitions and sets, then there must be weaknesses in the scapula stability (shoulder shaking uncontrollably with the straight arm) and obliques / inner thighs.
And apologies for the bluntness - was answering some heated comments before this.
poor content. your video is unclear, you repeat yourself, don't give any scientific evidence or even give an alternative. plain garbage and MAJOR clickbait if you ask me.. first video I see from you, probably the last.
Check out this article: bit.ly/problem-with-calisthenics , this video was just one small flaw of the many problems in modern calisthenics. I would need to make a long series to cover them all, otherwise the video would last forever.
The problem is that the entire perspective/worldview of calisthenics practitioners is flawed because you have been indoctrinated for years. There is not just 1 video that will change everything for you but I recommend joining a yoga or a pilates class. That training is already at a much higher level and there are no skills in sight.
Form inspector here: Your push up wasn't done with correct form. You should've kept the posterior pelvic tilt engaged.
It's important to keep evolving... Increasing angles, mixing weights. I see your point, but sounded biased to me. I don't know your fitness background, neither saw any others videos from you, so please consider that.
U r generalizing everything too much to put yourself forward. Really, ur system from so many videos of yours that I saw isn't so clear either. So, instead of putting down calisthenics, better say, look that s my idea of training and here is why.. It would be more fair ;)
You cannot really get a good idea of our methodology from the videos alone, this is true for any UA-cam videos by the way. If the training is based only on UA-cam videos, the person has really no idea what he/she is doing. To get the 100% message across you need hours of education or structured / specific guidance.
The reason I did this video and even got emotional was that calisthenics was a massive mistake of mine in the past since I used to be heavily into the modern calisthenics when I was younger. I recommend to read the article in the description, I also just had a talk with Steve Maxwell (50+ years in training) who largely shares my view on the topic: www.vahvafitness.com/steve-maxwell-fear-of-death/
If one arm pull-up is not real strength then I am laughing out loud..=D U and Maxwell the perfect pair
Too much of something is not good
You're just blabbering. Nothing you said makes sense. And I can't understand you.
This is a different level but let me dumb it down for you: how bodyweight training is done in modern calisthenics is one dimensional and narrow for both upper body and legs. Especially because training mostly consists of closed chain movements (exercises where your hand position is fixed to something such as a pull up bar).
This is however just one of the many problems of modern calisthenics. You can read the 5 problems in this blog article: bit.ly/problem-with-calisthenics but the main points are below:
1. No Proper Methodology
2. Not Sustainable (YOU WILL HURT YOURSELF)
3. All Ego and Skills
4. Not Proper Strength Training (DOESN'T TRANSFER WELL TO ANYTHING)
5. Full of Black & White Thinking