David Starkey: Henry the Great?

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  • Опубліковано 26 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 102

  • @davidstarkeytalks
    @davidstarkeytalks  Рік тому +11

    Please join the David Starkey Members' Club via Patreon www.patreon.com/davidstarkeytalks or Subscribestar www.subscribestar.com/david-starkey-talks

  • @Wrz2e
    @Wrz2e Рік тому +49

    Another edifying and fascinating talk from Dr Starkey. Thank you to UA-cam for allowing him a voice when others would gladly see him silenced.

  • @RobertThomson-y4m
    @RobertThomson-y4m Рік тому +10

    Hearing Starkey talk about history is fascinating. We need more interesting speakers to enthuse our kids to study history.

  • @stevenbrown8857
    @stevenbrown8857 6 місяців тому +7

    It is a privilege to watch and listen to this lecture

  • @louisemerriman1079
    @louisemerriman1079 Рік тому +23

    I love David Starkey

    • @raypurchase801
      @raypurchase801 Рік тому

      He'll never get another job with the BBC because he's the wrong colour.

  • @manusha1349
    @manusha1349 8 місяців тому +3

    You, Sir, are a great man ❤ we are privileged to have the benefit of your insights. Thank you 👏🏽

  • @LT11721
    @LT11721 Рік тому +2

    I could listen to this extraordinary man all day long.!!! Love him. My ancestor, Giovanni Sforza, was an ambassador to to England from Milan. I couldn’t believe it!! My long ago family in the court of Henry VIII! Hence my affinity to this period 😮😂. Bless David Starkey

  • @allanjgray1
    @allanjgray1 Рік тому +10

    Fascinating as usual .

  • @jake465
    @jake465 Рік тому +6

    How have I only just discovered this channel? A long time coming! Amazing stuff.

  • @nyckolaus
    @nyckolaus Рік тому +11

    Brilliant, Dr. Starkey.

  • @ManinOdessa1886
    @ManinOdessa1886 Місяць тому

    Cracking and worth your time, spent understanding a fantastic individual exploring the spinning axel of English 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 history.
    A fascinating experience it is. Thank you.

  • @kimberlyperrotis8962
    @kimberlyperrotis8962 Рік тому +11

    I could listen to Dr. Starkey talk about history all day long, and I always learn something. The modern UK politics go right over this American’s head, so I skip those topics. I don’t follow politics even in my own country.

  • @Trebor74
    @Trebor74 Рік тому +17

    One of things that get forgotten with Henry viii, is that the wars of the roses was living memory for a lot of people. To avoid a repeat there must be a male heir.

  • @avivatal614
    @avivatal614 Рік тому +6

    An utterly new concept on royalty, nationalism and greatness,how beautiful and original.

  • @paradox7358
    @paradox7358 Рік тому +12

    David Starkey is a great man.

  • @ChristopherMarshburn
    @ChristopherMarshburn Рік тому +21

    While Henry’s jousting accident didn’t change his personality I think there is a good argument that it amplified that personality’s negative traits. Traumatic Brain Injury is no joke.

    • @leeharamis1935
      @leeharamis1935 Рік тому +9

      Brain injuries are no joke, but I don’t think that is what he is arguing. My issue with the “Henry became wicked because of a jousting accident” argument is that it is such a simplification. I think what he argues here is that if we look at the broader context of events and focus on the intents and circumstances of the key players, a more realistic picture of what likely occurred comes into view.
      Saying a random accident caused Henry to do what he did, not only fails on the timeline, but it also diminishes understanding of his reign and its repercussions. Effectively it boils history down to random chance. That’s not to say that that sort of thing does not affect history (I mean two different kings of France died but hit their head on a doorway) but it should be the last thing we look to to provide answers.

    • @ChristopherMarshburn
      @ChristopherMarshburn Рік тому +4

      @@leeharamis1935 I agree with you for the most part. But this wasn’t hitting your head on a doorway. Not only is the physiological damage and trauma from such a fall, but there is the psychological element. This was probably the first time he was confronted in a serious way with his own mortality and it came at a time when yet again he is married to a queen that has failed to give him a male heir. Also such an event happening in front of the whole court in the course of sport that he boasts being an expert in must have struck at the heart of his enormous ego. A narcissist with power who has been publicly embarrassed is a dangerous thing ( just wait until doubts about his potency surface). Yes I get he was capable of brutality before the accident. But having two members of the court executed because they wouldn’t take an oath to support the royal succession is not quite the same as beheading a woman that just 3 years earlier you had anointed as God’s chosen queen crowned with St. Edward’s Crown.

    • @danaglabeman6919
      @danaglabeman6919 6 днів тому

      One of the problems with that whole idea is it probably (not certainly) didnt happen. The only evidence for such an injury is a letter from the Imperial ambassador in Rome to the Empress. He heard from the Imperial ambasdador to France, who heard it from God knows where, that Henry had taken a great fall in the joust and was, and I quote "without speech for above two hours". That has always been taken to mean "unconscious", but he doesnt say that (He could also have been "without speech" from pain or anger). But its a fourth hand, game of telephone account. Both Eustace Chapuys and Thomas Wriothesley were actually at the joust that day. They both say that the King fell from his horse and was miraculously unhurt. There are also no notations in the expense reports for payments to doctors, special treatments, anything that might have been needed had the King hurt himself in such a way. Did the fall exacerbate and reopen, even reinfect the old leg wound he took in a jousting fall years before? Totally possible, and there's speculation that the pain and immobility of that leg caused a lot of his temper problems later on. But there is simply no good evidence Henry suffered a TBI of any kind. Imagine if 500 years from now someone not only took fourth-hand gossip about you as gospel truth, but used it to explain away your entire personality.

  • @legendsofthescriptorium
    @legendsofthescriptorium 11 місяців тому +1

    Glad to see the silver play button approaches

  • @philiphudgens4726
    @philiphudgens4726 Рік тому +5

    'Good to see that ex-Channel 5 cameraman back in work.

    • @BetjeWolff-v2s
      @BetjeWolff-v2s Рік тому

      Incredible really. Better leave it to a 5 year old.

    • @CaruthersHodge
      @CaruthersHodge 5 місяців тому

      One does rather wonder what does he think he's doing.

  • @zoobee
    @zoobee Рік тому +4

    would love to read a book that David writes making this case, would be sensational in how it reframes Henry

    • @dariusdaguerre3535
      @dariusdaguerre3535 Рік тому +3

      Unless you know the man, out of respect you should refer to him as "Starkey."

  • @ThomasBoyd-zm6uj
    @ThomasBoyd-zm6uj Рік тому +1

    Awesome. Brilliant content. Well said.

  • @annwilliams6438
    @annwilliams6438 Рік тому +6

    A brain wound like that which Henry may have received doesn’t change one’s personality from nice guy to mean man but rather takes some of the internal limiters off and the person becomes more of whatever they were before that may have been thought through before speaking or acting. Henry was ALWAYS capable of having people killed to get his own way.

  • @AndriaBieberDesigns
    @AndriaBieberDesigns Рік тому

    Love everything you do!

  • @kevineakins5276
    @kevineakins5276 Рік тому +8

    I reached the same conclusion about before and after Henry VIII. You could not imagine a unipotent, independent queen wielding the same power as her forebears prior to her fathers reign. After it she picked up the baton arguably more ably , more powerfully and more heroically than any other king or queen since.

  • @primuso6269
    @primuso6269 Рік тому +3

    15.38 '...as a historian, you must suspend hindsight.' That must I propose be the key. I'm off to read and listen to his other works.

  • @kimberlyperrotis8962
    @kimberlyperrotis8962 Рік тому +3

    The “Great Man” theory of history might be unpopular nowadays, but it’s largely true. Until very recently, history was made by great, powerful, and largely aristocratic, men, like it or not. We little people, especially women, never had the access to, wealth for or education to make history in the past. The power of rhetoric, that is, the power to argue constructively and above all, to persuade, is always important and always will be. Without the cooperation of others, nothing important can ever get done.

  • @Ragnar_Danneskjold
    @Ragnar_Danneskjold Рік тому +11

    A few days ago David Mitchell did an interview about his history book he's writing, in it he described Henry VIII as the start of self deprecating Britain. I wondered how long Starkey would let that nonsense stand xD

    • @renshiwu305
      @renshiwu305 Рік тому

      Self-deprecating Britain started after the war, nationalism, unionization, socialism, and decolonization. If not at the end of the war, certainly, after the Suez Crisis.

    • @joebloggs396
      @joebloggs396 Рік тому +3

      Guardian readers and journalists are nowhere near as important as they'd like to think.

  • @malcolmcog
    @malcolmcog Рік тому +1

    I too am a Grammar school boy. I want to define the end of the Medieval days not as the death of Richard at Bosworth, but the crowning of Eleizabeth 1.

  • @katherinecollins4685
    @katherinecollins4685 Рік тому

    Very interesting

  • @anncouper-johnston6112
    @anncouper-johnston6112 Рік тому +1

    Your reference to rhetoric and the like reminds me of the names of the classes in Jesuit schools. We, as a Grammar school, had a debating society, though I was not fluent enough to participate. The structure of a classic debate in turn reminds me of the way Aquinas presents his arguments. Is this the origin of it? I suspect Aquinas, in turn, may have taken his cue from Roman practice, though he writes quite a while before the rediscovery of classical texts, so again I am left wondering .....

  • @jasonking6892
    @jasonking6892 Рік тому

    The Best 👍🇬🇧

  • @70galaxie
    @70galaxie Рік тому

    Ah feel like ah British subject again.
    Ain't felt that way for 248yrs. G.Davis

  • @HappyCodingZX
    @HappyCodingZX Рік тому +1

    When Dr Starkey sticks to his wheelhouse and talks about British History and the people who shaped it, he is top drawer. However, when he branches out and starts discussing these figures in the context of world history, he is, in my view, incredibly eurocentric - jumping from Rome to Britain like a 19th century imperialist, completely missing out the Islamic empires, the Mongols, the Chinese and others. Henry VIII is a fascinating central figure during a pivotal period of British History, but his legacy has more to do with luck, desperation, greed, pettiness, jealousy and bloody-mindedness than it does to him being any kind of architect of destiny. I would argue that even figures like Cromwell and Wolsey had more agency than Henry himself, who deserves the moniker 'the terrible' (as in creating terror) far more than 'the great'.

    • @joebloggs396
      @joebloggs396 Рік тому

      So he should be a Middle Ages imperialist?

    • @christiansoldier77
      @christiansoldier77 10 місяців тому

      The Muslims and the Chinese were not influential to the rest of the world because they pretty much cut themselves off from the rest of the world .

  • @christopherburns5262
    @christopherburns5262 Рік тому +1

    There is a castle in my town (Saffron Walden) that was defenestrated hundreds of years ago during the tumultous reign of Stephen and Matilda. Can you explain why this was so tumultuous? I know almost nothing of this era, a video explaining what the political context was would be fantastic

  • @syedadeelhussain2691
    @syedadeelhussain2691 Рік тому

    We can validate a brittle hypothesis not just using inferential statistics but also qualitative pieces of evidence drawn from history.

  • @johncourtneidge
    @johncourtneidge Рік тому

    Please, did you mention Henry's legalisation of Usury?
    In 1545, 'In Restraint of Usury': spin doctoring again!
    For the first time in England's history.

  • @janallen1243
    @janallen1243 Рік тому

    Love DS

  • @fredericksaxton3991
    @fredericksaxton3991 Рік тому

    I never realised Henry was above average height. 6ft 1in, I thought that I once saw his suit of armour some where where he was quite short and average height for the period.

  • @cerdic6586
    @cerdic6586 Рік тому +10

    I think Starkey is guilty of retrospective pruning here. You should judge a monarch by the standards and challenges of his day, not merely by how much his legacy stretches to posterity. Henry certainly had the potential for greatness, due in part to reasons that Starkey explains. But the circumstances of his reign, as well as Henry's sometimes rash and tyrannical actions, prevented this greatness from being realised. In particular, the utter failure of Henry's foreign policy, which was understandable considering that England was a minor player on the European stage at the time.

    • @joebloggs396
      @joebloggs396 Рік тому

      There was plenty of paranoia among monarchs of that time throughout Europe, their claim to divine rights had waned.

    • @cerdic6586
      @cerdic6586 Рік тому

      @@joebloggs396 It was actually enhancing in this period due to the centralisation of feudal polities. In the early medieval period, a king was technically a first among equals, and could (and sometimes was) replaced by the nobility. Henry VIII, of course, supplanted the nobility by relying on the so-called 'new men' (burghers), as well as creating a new and pro-Tudor landed gentry from the confiscated monastic lands.

  • @Semper_Iratus
    @Semper_Iratus Рік тому +3

    I think not. Henry has not what it takes to pass muster of entry to that exclusive circle.

    • @ralphl7643
      @ralphl7643 Рік тому

      It sounds better than Henry the Consequential.

  • @bartsanders1553
    @bartsanders1553 Рік тому +1

    History would have applied the nomenclature by now if it were so.

  • @FizuliAbilov
    @FizuliAbilov Рік тому

    Есть шутка из разряда черного юмора, что будет такая "борьба за мир, что камня на камне не останется". 😅

  • @davidcarver368
    @davidcarver368 3 місяці тому

    Do you know Who supplied the money to fund the Hapsburg empire ?

  • @SeanChristieMallon
    @SeanChristieMallon Рік тому +2

    Starko is probably right whatever he says

  • @dvosburg1966
    @dvosburg1966 Рік тому

    The only subject he is really qualified to speak on.

  • @FizuliAbilov
    @FizuliAbilov Рік тому

    Габсбурги на золоте предложили бы договориться

  • @johnmiller8975
    @johnmiller8975 Рік тому

    Henry the dread (after Ivan IV Grosny)

  • @jamesalvarez8733
    @jamesalvarez8733 3 місяці тому +2

    Reference to Henry but it’s not so great and many other Roman/European Statesman In comparison to the Mexican American war of 1846 remonstrance:
    Have the ruin of Greek and Roman liberty consequent of the extension of domain by fire and sword no lessons for us? A score of names, perhaps, in the whole range of history, have been accounted, called “great”. But who are they? How poor are all the results they left on earth compared with his who repressed the ignoble strife of his followers, who should be greatest. They were from below, he was from above. Some good men have attained the title, an Alfred, a Peter, a charlamagne; but most have been great in crime and blood; an Alexander, a Pompey, a Caesar, a Herod, a Louis, A HENRY, a Frederic, a Charles, a Bonaparte. They were great in many things ; great, perhaps, in ability, great in resolution of will, great in means of influence, and striking in their results; but little in the elements of a truly great character ; little in honesty, in truth, in love, mean, selfish, crafty, cruel, and implacable. They have been willing to sacrifice any amount of human life or happiness, to secure their end, and be accounted the greatest. But how poor the honor, how blood-stained the glory! How many death-pangs it has taken to refine their thrill of pleasure, how many tears to water their garlands of victory, how much human gore to dye their purple robes of royalty ! What curses have loaded their names on earth, what awful memories must haunt them in the world of spirits! We want senators not swordsman at the head of nations and Christendom, a Cato not a Caesar, nor a syllas. War is for savages and barbarous nations, not gentlemen and Christian nations!
    -War with Mexico reviewed, Abiel Livermore 1850 American Peace Society

  • @FizuliAbilov
    @FizuliAbilov Рік тому

    International intergovernmental Kabbala by helping each other to protect businesses, в Европе это перезагрузка

  • @grtlyblesd
    @grtlyblesd Рік тому +1

    He stammers a lot less in this one. I wonder if he’s had a change in his health.

  • @FizuliAbilov
    @FizuliAbilov Рік тому

    Ницше сказал, что только носящий в себе хаос может родить танцующую звезду.

  • @MrBillGarland
    @MrBillGarland Рік тому

    👍🇬🇧😊

  • @richardhaynes5793
    @richardhaynes5793 Рік тому +1

    Israel and Palestine... I'm wondering about the history of the area. Is there any such thing as an objective perspective ? Where can I go to learn the truth ?

    • @johncourtneidge
      @johncourtneidge Рік тому

      Nowhere that I can suggest: The Zionist Invaders of Palestine dominate all media, schools, Universities (so called) etc.
      The best start is to recognise that not all Jews are Zionists, nor are all Zionists Jews.
      Israel is not a Jewish State. It is a Zionist State.

  • @connoroleary591
    @connoroleary591 Рік тому +1

    If you really think that Henry regarded the birth of his sickly son Edward VI, as validation from God for his behaviour, then you must have a rather limited understanding of the religious mind of an intelligent medieval monarch.
    At this stage in his reign Henry had lost his faith. He knew more than anyone in England that he wasn't party to any divine favours. The Mary Rose sank in front of him, battles rarely went his way and his flesh smelled as much as any peasant in his kingdom.
    Nobody with any semblance of religiosity would have an innocent man boiled alive in Smithfield. Or execute the saintly Bishop Fisher, who was the close friend and confessor of his grandmother, the woman who singlehandedly founded the Tudor dynasty,
    Henry was never trained to be king, he was the spare and was never treated kindly by his father.
    There is a letter from an ambassador saying how he witnessed Henry VII, just before he died, beating the young Henry very severely.
    Henry behaves like someone who experienced a traumatic childhood and is suddenly handed absolute power. He takes revenge on his family, rapidly executes his fathers advisers.
    His busybody grandmother oddly, dies suddenly, just 5 days after his coronation.
    She was the power behind his fathers throne, she was not going to be the power behind his throne.
    Over the past 20 years we have come to understand more and more how adults with childhood trauma behave, one aspect of this is "Limerence". Becoming totally infatuated with someone. An infatuation often accompanied by delusions. This infatuation rarely lasts immersion in reality. And so it was with most of Henry's wives and lovers.

  • @onceamusician5408
    @onceamusician5408 Рік тому +1

    I agree with Dr Starkey here regarding his point that to reject the old heroic model of history is sheer nonsense
    Henry VIII was a BIG man, even a colossus.
    and BIG MEN LEAD, and people follow, or react against them
    But if Dr Starkey himself called Henry the English Stalin, then this monarch of gigantic stature can no more be called Great than Stalin
    I would suggest, somewhat tentatively for i am only thinking on the fly as it were, that greatness must have some kind of moral aspect to it -that such a person be in some way good, even according to the vastly attenuated moral standards of sinful humans
    and by this metric Henry Tudor was not great

    • @cerdic6586
      @cerdic6586 Рік тому

      He was quite a big man, but his ego was much bigger. He could not live up to his heroes in Henry V and Edward III.

  • @jameswalker5796
    @jameswalker5796 Рік тому +3

    If you really can't pronounce Xi, just say "She" 😜

  • @peregrineslim4446
    @peregrineslim4446 Рік тому +2

    Henry the 8th is the Joseph Stalin of British history.

    • @joebloggs396
      @joebloggs396 Рік тому

      Nonsense, the 16th century was a different world. People are just ignorant of elsewhere, or want to trash England.

  • @keithscott1957
    @keithscott1957 Рік тому

    The cameraman is certainly not great. Henry would have him beheaded.

  • @marcokite
    @marcokite Рік тому +2

    The worst king we ever had. Blood soaked tyrant who tore us away from the True Church and opened the door for the protestant heresies.

    • @chete4479
      @chete4479 Рік тому

      Let's not forget the millions of loyal catholics hunted to extermination in Wales, Scotland, Ireland and England and overseas by these monsters Tudors.

    • @marktuffield6519
      @marktuffield6519 Рік тому

      One day England will return to the fold 🙂. But, would a Catholic England have created the modern world 🤔?

  • @adrianlovett3483
    @adrianlovett3483 Рік тому +3

    I like David’s presentation and enthusiasm but there is no thread to what he is trying to explain. Henry was great because what ? Because he sowed the seeds of 100 years of religious civil war , he isolated England from Europe , he killed 3 wives , he left the country quite bankrupt?
    It all depends on how you define great . All leaders want to be considered that and try to leave some imprint on society to commemorate themselves . Few are , although some achieve some great feats, most are narcissistic megalomaniacs.

    • @joebloggs396
      @joebloggs396 Рік тому

      Killed two actually. I think we can blame that 'German' Martin Luther for the schism.

  • @FizuliAbilov
    @FizuliAbilov Рік тому

    Про меркантилистскую школу экономики, которую Ленин и греки назвали хрематистикой

  • @FizuliAbilov
    @FizuliAbilov Рік тому

    Atatürk and Cherchill were drinking guys

  • @coraelizabethbrna439
    @coraelizabethbrna439 Рік тому

    Ugh. Your obsession with “woke” is one of your only downfalls.

  • @timetravellingtoad
    @timetravellingtoad Рік тому

    I stopped at the point when you said "...when he conquered India". The 1st 6 minutes were well delivered though.

  • @JB-uv4hm
    @JB-uv4hm Рік тому +1

    Starkey’s so rapped up in his own issues and current politics that he’s gone off the reservation into full blown presentism in his ‘history’ discussions.

  • @alexmckenna1171
    @alexmckenna1171 Рік тому +1

    I adore him, of course, but his views are too reactionary for me.

    • @BobGeogeo
      @BobGeogeo Рік тому

      If all Starkey's complaining about current times were removed, would this go from 40 minutes to 35? 30?

    • @joebloggs396
      @joebloggs396 Рік тому

      Just read or see a few more 'woke' Indian bigots.

  • @Happyheretic2308
    @Happyheretic2308 Рік тому +1

    No, the appalling Tydder was not "great".

  • @joseornelas1718
    @joseornelas1718 Рік тому

    take that @TheSeenAndTheUnseen

  • @rastabarwell
    @rastabarwell Рік тому

    No.....Henry the c..t.