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5-Axis CNC Machining A Generative Designed Skateboard Truck!
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2020
- Generative design marks the dawn of a new era of technology, design, and manufacturing! Don't let the seemingly delicate, ornate structures fool you--these parts are MADE to withstand an onslaught of stresses. We teamed up with Gavin Bath from CADPRO Systems to machine a generatively designed longboard/skateboard truck on the 5-axis.
We'll discuss what generative design is, how it works, and how we machined the part using Fusion 360 Steep & Shallow toolpaths, collision avoidance, part inspection, and an awesome workholding technique suggested by Rob Lockwood.
This is the story of the most complicated part we've ever made!
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Links for this video
Gavin Bath's Video: • Electric-Longboard / F...
IG: @thezwap
Generative Design File Download: bit.ly/329t9kf
AU Course by Laurens Wijnschenk: bit.ly/35FtKIL
Rob Lockwood on YT: bit.ly/2XJhK7P
Helical Relived Shank Tools
#81468 - 3 FLUTE, SQUARE - 40° HELIX, VARIABLE PITCH, REDUCED NECK: bit.ly/3ganTR9
#82488 - 3 FLUTE, BALL - 40° HELIX, VARIABLE PITCH, REDUCED NECK: bit.ly/2NthILF
#46071 - 3 FLUTE, CORNER RADIUS - 40° HELIX, VARIABLE PITCH, REDUCED NECK: bit.ly/2VjRvn0
Additional Footage Courtesy of Autodesk
• Autodesk Generative De...
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Reach us / CNC Info:
Speeds & Feeds: provencut.com
Download Fusion 360: www.dpbolvw.ne...
Online Fusion 360 Training: bit.ly/LearnFus...
Hands-On CNC Classes: www.nyccnc.com...
SMW Products: saundersmachin...
CNC Resources: www.nyccnc.com 5 Reasons to Use a Fixture Plate on Your CNC Machine: bit.ly/3sNA4uH
This guy knows his stuff!
Does he really? Seems for like someone who knows how to read a press release and click some buttons
@@kingASMalban come back to this comment after listening to his podcast and you will realise how stupid you are being.
only flaw i see is that you need a way to cut excess metal off the block, either by a saw or laser or water jet cutting. however you guys cut these days idk... you could put, into autocad, the block you have to work with and then overlap the design with the block to see what excess material can be largely cut off, this would lessen mill time, lessen bit wear, and allow for more scrap metal.
even with that billion dollar 5 axis mill, i'm sure this thing took an age to mill out from unrelieved block material.
...and he *loves* his stuff, so he's a great teacher
Been on the Apps for 25 year and I learn something new everyday I could live to 1000000 and still not know everything this guys been doing this 7 year he is Amateur.....he has not even scratched the surface yet ....and he openly admits this ....he is a very clever guy but an average machinist and programmer @ best...if he thinks this part is complicated look @ what Peter @ Edge does on his channel he is a proper machinist one of the very very best
I had a friend use generative topology for a project in one of my mechanical engineering classes. The part looked like a tree trunk and was hollow. It easily won the contest of weight vs strength. He did it on Inventor. Dude's literally the sharpest guy I have ever seen
Did he use an AI?
This is one of the things I really like with you Americans. You are good at sharing your knowledge. Here in Europe the tricks are held close to the body and we always have to find new ways ourselves. Thanks for sharing these cool tricks
As an elder non tech but hands on guy this is stuff of imagination, so cool to see someone other than NASA or Boeing using, and better yet understanding and growing this multi facit technology Thanks for sharing
I love the fact that you used Fusion for your toolpaths.
this was awesome. been meaning to revisit my truck project for braille, but this confirms that going 5 axis is going to be a pain in the ass for any scalable production! super informative, really really awesome video
It's so rewarding watching you grow in experience and knowledge over the years. It's also great to see an owner be so forward thinking and supportive of advancing both capability and novel process development that makes huge difference in quality, speed all while keeping tooling life and re-usability(regrinds) in mind. It's pretty wasteful using tooling up to the point of destruction or excessive wear past the ability of resharpening because resharpening essentially gives you an additional 40% worth of usable tool life and tools is a serious part of Cost Of Manufacturing (COM). Always remember, it's not only what you make that drives success, it's just as important in how you save through efficiency that puts you over the finish line...
Yes, not an easy business at all and one so dependent upon having good customers...
@@TAH1712 You hit the nail directly on the head! When I do programming for customers the 1st time they hang me out on payment (past due) is the last. If they don't have adequate "operating capital" and don't pay on time, they shouldn't be or doing any business. That trend started in the late 70's and has essentially ruined American Manufacturing. Due on Receipt or like most businesses payment with P.O., Net-30 MEANS Net-30, not Net-45, Net-60, Net-90...
@@ThePreyMantas Yep, businesses use each other bank accounts and the guy who doesn't kick up a fuss and press them on payment is the guy who in the end, meets his end...
@@TAH1712 SMH, so sad. That's why I didn't even go down the Net Terms path until a "really" trusted them and that's how it should be, that's how America was built before that banks set things up so everyone but them loses.Honor, Ethic and Integrity worked for thousands of years making those who do the work wealthy from their hard work.... On the opposite end and more recently (since WWII) that old boy boy network has successfully destroyed American manufacture and the hangouts on payment are just one more large stone to crush than. I don't understand the theory behind allowing "old Boys" with no talent or skills other than kissing butt, to run companies" Kissing butt never built anything except the sex industry... lol But I digress. I'm leaving to God to sort out the wheat from the chaff because if I was doing the judging, there would be a whole lot less folks making it to the gates.
Hang in there, save some capital, then put your foot down on terms & credit. If they know you're good for your word, make them good for theirs or just no bid and tell them your new business model. A bad customer will rarely ever become a good customer...
Always SUPER interesting thank you - from New Zealand :)
Thanks for sharing and helping to keep us all up to date on the latest practices!
You've come a long way over the years John.
John, you are the most professional in CNC I ever know. Super Top !!!
This is known in the aerospace engineering realm as "Optimization Analysis". Not new but it does show a jump forward for the average shop and average business having access to this.
It isn't infallible though. It does need to be reviewed for all load cases and critical cases need to be re-validated to make sure there isn't a problem from structural stability, it isn't just stress limited. Strain and buckling limitations need to be accounted for.
You might want to look into getting a long nose glue gun. I got the “Lifegoo” one on Amazon. I don’t know who names this stuff. :) It is pretty handy in that it can get into tighter spots easier. I think it was only $18.
Autodesk really needs to make Generative Design more accessible permanently. It was great seeing them make it “free” to use back in December. Currently though it costs potentially hundreds to generate concepts and use the models, which is fine in some businesses but not remotely viable for hobbyists.
I wish there could be less cloud reliance too. I don’t mind simply waiting longer but having the option to do all the generation locally.
I think also this generative design is expensive. For a company that really need this it is ok. But for hobbyist they should be a offline mode to generate this on the own pc. Is this really calculation intensive or is the cloud thing only to got some extra money???
Captain DJ My hunch is it’s a bit of both. It certainly is very intensive, but it’s definitely possible to do locally as other packages can manage it, similarly the preview function in done locally I believe. The preview only generates to the first few steps but it still gets you something, if it weren’t remotely doable surely that wouldn’t function properly either?
I don’t mind paying for parts of the process, but the balance is very much stacked against being able to experiment.
We used a custom made fixture system. The idea was you would assemble the jigs according to a drawing you would put the stock in the assembly and you would run the program. We never had a crash.
We also never changed the machine offset. It was a golden rule that was never broken. We used to make lots of one off parts. So setting up was extremely important. We couldn't afford to do a dry run or to sit there and watch the machine for every tool path.
We also never had to set any offsets on the raw stock like I see on every video. We would literally put the stock on the machine and pressed the start and would just check that the first cut was right and then let it run as if it was a production part for the very first (and usually only) part. This was 15yrs ago.
Instead of glue, we use car body filler if the part is likely to vibrate.
How do you easily remove it?
@@axiom1650 put aluminium tape on the part, and wd40 on the bed and use acetone to remove and break down anything that is still stuck to the bed and rub with a stone. Sometimes you can just tap the filler of the bed or fixture with a mallet
Yes I have been excited for this video series and have followed his progress as he posts it.
love my esk8!
Next up you guys will be moving towards Pagani level of finish for automotive parts. Some of the things they have made like interior parts and engine intake parts is simply amazing.
You could done that part in 1 shot with tabs. No need to make a locating jig.
You could have made the wheel axis parallel to the x axis on the initial setup and extended the height of your stock by 5” or more to give extra clearance for the tilt axis when reaching those cavities. Leave tabs and part it off. If you wanted to go lean and save material on production you could make a rectangle jig that bolt underneath ur stock if you didn’t want to extend the stock 5”
Wow. Very nice. Love your work and youtube channel. As a fellow toolmaker/CNC specialist I understand the problems such delicate parts can present. Keep up the good work.
Next level stuff, SKATE!
What an amazingly valuable video on generative design and CNC techniques.
So that's why 3D Printing is the future
you can't really substitute cnc machining, since you can only 3d print plastics and metal which is really complicated too. cnc machining will always be more accurate and it's also faster for big parts
and it looks cooler :p
@@Windows350 for now .
@@nitacawo well, i think it won't replace machining. but i cant look in to the future, let's see
Thanks for all your hard work, and such a beautiful result!
Definitely gotta try generative designing with my 3D printer, sounds really interesting!
I was thinking the same thing...
@@JF32304 its very expensive to mess with but good to try
@@v1Broadcaster mess with what? 3D printing... Uh not really. I 3D print all the time.
@@JF32304 he's probably talking about the fact that Fusion 360 generative design requires you to buy cloud credits which are pretty expensive, not the actual cost of manufacturing
@@oliverfrank8124 oh ok I see. Thank you for clarifying.
We made a skateboard deck 10 years ago. It was perfect, but terribly heavy. It didn’t have very good give either so it felt like driving a car with no shocks. Rode it a couple times and hung it up forever
5:09 "Nice disolve!"
- Barfolomew
This opened up my mind , if there is no xyz on the part then make it , we can sandwich the part between two pieces of stock and then square them in the same op before moving to the next one
Super rad. And kinda fun how he moves like an animatronic
Fasinathing. thank you very much. Keep up the great work !
Does generative designs consider bending and flexibility of material to provide better and greater weight support in comparison to rigid structures?
Very interesting-thank you very much!
Just re-watched this video. So good! It's interesting how generative design has been adopted by the engineering and maker community. I was expecting it to be more significant but it seems to me more like another modern tool in the tool box. Like co-bots, AR, robot vision etc. Tech is moving fast but it's still governed by the adoption rate.
-Ken
Crazy crazy stuff! 😍
Great time for us to all give thanks to Fusion for stripping out a bunch of the CAD functionality to the cloud credits aystem.
Fusion generative design is fine for one-offs, but it does not make parts for mass manufacturing or repairability.
I haven't used it but was under the impression you could give it manufacturing constraints so it didn't come up with stuff that isnt possible to make.
The part in question could be cast if it was modified a bit. Generative design is usually used to produce a draft of the part which is refined to the final manufactured form.
Not symmetrical L/R?
from gavin bath's video, this is the truck that the electric motor for the longboard attaches to. The asymmetrical shape is accounting for the torque stress of the motor under load and the attachment point for the motor plate
awesome. only flaw i see is that you need a way to cut excess metal off the block, either by a saw or laser or water jet cutting. you could put into autocad the block you have to work with and then overlap the design with the block to see what excess material can be largely cut off, this would lessen mill time, lessen bit wear, and allow for more scrap metal.
What would the cost be to design and make 1 off ? Hmm, i wonder ... Pricey skateboard even for Apple execs!
You are my doppelgänger 😎
appreciate the video, and generative design will definitely evolve components for sports equipment. But existing skateboard trucks are forged, meaning they may well have a comparable strength to weight ratio of these machined trucks.
there is another not too far removed example of forging vs machining. Which is bicycle hubs. Extremely common workhorse Shimano hubs are forged, so are extremely durable even though hard steel ball bearings run right on the aluminium hub surface. They essentially last a lifetime if you keep the dirt out.
But many "high end" boutique hubs are CNC machined. Both because these smaller companies lack the resources to forge hubs but also because they tend to put heaps of weight reduction cut outs in hubs and other products they make to appeal to performance seekers.
The CNC hubs could never cope with cup and cone ball bearings, they instead need sealed cartridge bearings.
There is another factor that will affect the adoption of generative design. This is environmental sustainability. Pure machined parts, especially with the complex lattices of generative design - create monumental amounts of waste swarf. Much greater material mass than actually used in final product.
Forging uses only the exact quantity of material needed.
The most optimum process for sustainability, durability and low weight (of metal items). Will be to forge components and then finish them with machining.
But resin - carbon and even glass composite components can often far outperform metal counterparts. Which gives designers and makers even more options.
A longboard truck has no need to be made of metal at all , longboarders, especially of the electric variety. Do not do 'grinds' . the board is just transport.
The hollow cavities inside trucks may actually be a potential location for next gen batteries. Motors are already inside wheels.
What's the purpose of optimizing the mass of an electric longboard truck? Better portability is the only advantage I can think of.
That was excellent!!! Holy cow.
I’d love to know what the “saving” is compared to over-engineering it. Reducing the unsprung mass is crucial in all suspension system (particularly railways) but I would have thought the mass in these trucks is already small to begin. Time to search UA-cam!!
Interesting that the design is asymmetrical ... super interesting vid
Yeah, but look at the end of the video (@11:32) where it's attached to a bracket holding the electric drive motor with a belt drive from the motor shaft to the rear axle. So completely unlike a passive truck, this one has a 1-sided belt drive input to drive the rear wheels. Hence the major L/R asymmetry. I guess with this use, any sensible design, human or generative, would have to be strongly asymmetrical.
@@SH-pc4xt ahh, that makes sense, thanks!
I just read all about this part on the esk8 news forum. Very exciting stuff!
6:05 Is there a free version of camplete truepath and how do I import my old 90s 5 axis model to it
Is it only me that thinks this could have been done in one op in a sacrificial frame? Being full 5 axis and all? Tabs to finish?
Won't be long before this is 100% automated. I've never seen someone so excited to see their job become obsolete.
Need more turning videos with that new lathe of yours! Also when will fusion get better turning features? Is there any way to program a knurling tool or even a poly vee tool? Having a lot of issues right now as those are two of my main components I make
This looks like a great candidate for moving along compound bow design. Won't happen in the UK though. Total lack of long term investment here.
You own many tools... and with addition of few... I would like you make Generator!!!! In electronics etc part you may took help from net even I'm available to help.... but prepare design for generator, make it yourself!! It's awesome project to have
Once you got the 5 axis, your videos changed. Not in a bad way, they are just... different... I dont really know how to describe the change. I assume its cause you guys are crazy busy, but the 5 axis was the notable pivot point.
It's rushed. Pay attention to how many cuts they use for John talking at 2:59,it's like 4 words at a time
Complicated tooling equates to an expensive part . . . KISS, cost effective
Complexity is free in 3-D printing
A long ways from the 2x4 wood bearings with driven in wheels from a shopping cart I used for skateboard as a kid. LOL
Yup, I used a 2x4 and cut up an old metal skate, with metal wheels...
Hey, zoom out so we can see the label on the machine. Is that one of the new twins? Show us, show us.
I believe the new twins are vf machines. This is a umc750
@@alexkern9134 Yes, I think they're VF6SS or the new super invisible VMCs. Thanks for the ID though.
you rockin the hermle shirt?
Awesome & Thanks :)
9:24 holy hell that's alot of stick out. whyyyyyyyy and why with so much flute length?
Spindles and trunnions don't like colocating.
Literally at 9:27 you see them plunging the end mill down into the part, using the full flute length. So they clearly needed a tool with that much LOC and clearance. Maybe they could've used a stubbier tool for the first hole, but that makes no sense times wise.
@@hhcdfhngdzjjbf579 that's not the same tool ur talking about. The one deeper in that hole is a bigger tool.
New sub, love CNC work ♥️
How to make the most expensive Longboard Truck possible! Super interesting tho and very creative
Add in some camera AI positioning for the probing, and that probing will be super Quick and simple to use
No braille skateboarding video?
Now do a 50-50 Slide with it :D
Has Braille Army skated trucks like that?
Hermle Shirt?
When is your machine coming? :P
I need these trucks in my life. Where can we find them?
Love the show, you need to check out the ntopology platform another one out of blues. Great.
So your personal AI connected to complicated machinery? How do i by one?
Impressive.
I have trouble making nameplates lol
5:56 what brand of socket is that?
I think it is easier to do it on a 3 axis machine with a 4th turning axis parallel to the X axis.
the machines are learning
What happened with steep and shallow in the latest update of Fusion? Now it is a paid feature?
Yes. They make it free to get more bug reports and testing.
Always has been *points gun*
how much it costed ?
how much does it cost.
Topology optimization!!!!!
Its great ideas
Beatiful part! I'm cnc student, and I want make a AR15 Lower, how I must to do, for make two sides, exactly the same, please 🙏help!!!! Thanks.
Topology optimization vs generative design
Next vid: machining skynet
Wow.
interesting... I was just looking for something I couldn't find anywhere. which was a over engineered ultra wide off-road long board truck for a big guy (300lb) like myself. any chance I can get a modified version of the design file? I want 14 inches of width between the wheels and withstand 6.7kn of impact force. or atleast point me in the right direction for designing it myself.
“So many generatively designed parts look like organic structures”
...thats the whole point of evolution
It's all fun and games till someone forgets a load case...
Yeah, this is why I hardly ride it now... too scared I got something wrong.
@@GavinBath Every time a plane crashes, we learn that we overlooked something -They've been around 100 years and we're still learning. Unfortunately, that seems to be the only way we learn (and progress), so keep on experimenting. Maybe recruit a few test pilots.
That's the mark of a good engineer. Having every possible failure case and every possible feature/solution in their head and atleast think everything through once.
id like to see a drop down deck cncd out of metal.
found my future job
There are few issues in this whole shit. First of all: There are no any program which could calculate all stresses in any thing but in a long stick, because there no any math for that invented. The way all the programs "calculate" the stresses in all the stuff is just dividing a part on small parts like polygons and calculate stresses on the border of each polygon. This goes to a lot of artifacts, especially on chamfers or fillets which should hide the most stressed lines, but all the programs show higher stresses on chamfer and fillets than on 90degree angle on a part. So all the "beautiful" "nature-like" lines on the part that connect two separate surfaces are just artefacts of machine calculation. To prevent all this artefacts human should correct polygons on each chamfer, fillet or joint before each calculation, I mean each time after every step of AI part optimization.
The second one: I definitely want to see an ISO drawing of the part you've shown)))) All the sizes, radiuses and angles)) If you would do it, please tell how much time it took to make a drawing from the model))) It's really interesting how many views and crossing views you should do to make it)) I'm saying it because in my world if you draw a part which could be done only on 5 axis cnc or on a normal cnc with more than 3 repositions you are an idiot but not an engineer))))) I draw all the parts for maximum 2 repositions for everything else there are disassembliable joints like thread, or not disassembliabliable joints like welding. For everything else there is casting.
That’s metal as fuck
Can I get a pair? I want to see how they ride!
Send it to Braille Skateboarding and see if they can break it.
beautiful part but looks terribly tortured to make. Would lend itself more to additive manufacturing than traditional subtractive . Impressive !!
I was going to say the same thing. Doesn't seem to make much sense for subtractive machining. Need 5 axis, more complicated setup, more tools required, longer cycle time, more material waste, just so it's ever slightly lighter, and looks funky? Now for additive mfg, different story.
I cannot do this.
hi, bacteria breeds on the tramp oil and book and crannies, ours is a redox system which is a system incorporating multimedia metals and once the coolant passes through it the bacteria and fungi are 100% eliminated and the killing process just goes on forever, you just have to add good water for topping up and concentrates to maintain the concentration, if not inconvenient send me your email address I would send you the details of the system.
I think I know who designed this.....
Send it to Braille Skateboarding for them to test it. #youmakeitweskateit
Definitely not! Haha. The blood, sweat and tears that went into this is not something we want to go through again.
SLM... No more fun!
Those are $16 calipers. compared to how much it costs to own and operate a cnc...
lol
Hot glue? What is this, a 5-minute crafts video?
Generative design it's like extracting bad tooth going through butt hole vs through open mouth...
The hanger is nice but the board..... what a waste of energy. I saw it at Euromold a few years ago and almost got a heart attack.